Whether your view is religious or scientific. And if you think the Universe is a steady state(as in, has no beginning or end),then try to explain that instead. Thank you.
Here you go it's already been summed up pretty nicely
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
6 And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.
9 And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.
11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.
14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.
20 And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.” 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth.” 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.
24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”
29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.
31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se … ersion=NIV
That's just a bad translation of an interesting book.
It is very interesting. I love religion. I am learning Hebrew so I can make my own translation eventually, for a start.
Sorry for jumping in. But since you love religion why are you ready the bible
Nice story. Not buying it because of that - a nice story.
[21:31] Do not the disbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were a closed-up mass, then We opened them out? And We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … p;verse=30
I think the OP was asking for what actually happened not some fairy story that was not even convincing 2000 years ago - except to the dimmest lights in the class.
Glad I didn't post something like once upon a time, a small singularity exploded, and over billions of years all by chance, the exact atoms continued to build on each other. Eventually the galaxies were formed, and once again all by coincidence so was earth. Then, by more coincidence some fairy star dust fell down and created living organisms. . Nope, still like the correct version I initially posted.
How about you read your story the right way up - an as yet unexplained event started our current universe that fired up our star, collected up the gasses and made our planet and the conditions that made life possible, probably inevitable, and one day it will all attract itself back together and do it all over again. Of course a giant hairy fairy could have created itself and then the universe and then people so that they could regress to some new dark age and die out like the dinosaurs and other critters that ruled this earth before. But the odds are about the same as an evangelical christian thinking himself out of a paper bag.
All by reoccurring coincidence, magic gas, and magic star dust sprinkled around over billions of years.
Only the religious believe in magic - our universe runs on simple physics and each part is not hard to understand with the right education. The parts that are actually difficult to grasp we use clever people to get their heads around it and then explain it to us in simple language - much better idea than inventing a magical fairy who diddit all to save the uneducated from having to think.
Please enlighten us with your " simple physics". All the physic Ive studied and still study about space and the universe wasn't and isnt simple at all.
Yes, because none of the "clever" people believe in GOD or religion. :lol;
You keep telling yourself that. It's your world, we're all just living in it.
Perhaps may be your basic problem, you think it is all so complex and yet it all boils to down to simple action and reaction. You are thinking yourself dizzy and then seeing things where they are not to try and make sense of the confusion you are in.
Go back to school, but not in those states where the religious politicians have imposed stupidity in place of science.
Yes it's so simple, and you've got it all figured out arm chair quarterbacking physics. Hey everyone recommend1 has it all figured out, science and religion can stop now.
I certainly have it all figured out better than your childish theory of a god father-figure.
Simplifying a whole set of theories to make them understandable to dimwits is always difficult, if we simplify too much we are accused of knowing 'everything', if we make up little stories to explain them then the dimwits take the stories as reality.
If I 'dangle a carrot in front of a donkey' it does not mean I have a real carrot or that you have long ears, it means something else. The inability to consign the donkey and carrot to imagination rather than reality is one definition of dimwit.
blah blah blah, more philosophy with nothing to back it up. Since youre an animal analogy lover, If you teach a parrot how to speak about science, does it understand science?
If you teach a monkey about creationism can it still function as a thinking organism ? You are an evolutionary dead-end, you should go find a niche quickly before some other reptile occupies it.
Don't worry bud, one day when you actually study anything that has to do with science, really study it not just read it and parrot it back on the Internet, you'll be able make your own conclusion. It may be the same, but you'll understand why.
And don't you worry Bud, I know it is mind boggling to you creationists when others understand what they are talking about as that never happens to you - but if you go back to a real school and educate yourself you can understand some of it too. It really is easy as that, Bud.
Hahahahaha that was like reading a childrens fairytale.
Do you have a serious answer?
I love the part about man being created in gods image. Gays, murderers, rapists, theives and so on, are all made in gods image.
Awesome. He was a great designer wasn't he?
No, that was another gift gave us, choice. Additionally, what you read was before the introduction of sin. Don't worry, I realize it's hard for some people to comprehend something they don't understand.
I knew the "incapable of understanding" insult was coming soon. What is so hard to understand that people created in gods image, designed by god (wait, created in his image or designed? It cant be both) choose to do bad things. Funny that.
I would have thought people created by such a great being would WANT to choose good over evil.
I guess he didnt want them to huh? I mean he can do anything, right? But he can't create people that would WANT to do good?
Of course he could have, but he didn't. GOD didn't want puppets, that's why he gave free will. You may choose as you like, right or wrong.
What you WANT to choose does not detract from your free will.
You can choose to do whatever you WANT but if you dont WANT to do wrong then you're not going to are you?
Free will is one of the most ridiculous arguments that ever came out of religion.
Will and choice are not the same thing. You seem to be deliberately confusing them.
Yes you are. You are saying that if someone wants to do good then that removes their free will.
You seem to think that there is no difference between someone being forced to do something that they dont want because they have no free will or someone doing what they want because they WANT to do it.
What you want to do simply determines your choice. It does not remove the choice.
I don't see anywhere that I wrote what you stated. I think you're confusing your philosophy/misunderstanding and my beliefs.
If you cant see how replying to a statement about what someone WANTS to do with "it will remove their free will" has anything to do with what I said then you clearly dont understand what you are arguing about.
I clearly don't understand what you are arguing about. Write a Hub about it, maybe someone else will.
You're the one arguing about free will. I simply asked why god is not great enough to create people who WANT to do good things.
You replied with free will. I never mentioned it.
I WANT to eat chocolate cake. That bears no relevance whatsoever to wether or not I have the CHOICE to eat cholcolate cake does it?
The gist of your argument confuses what people WANT to do with wether or not they have a CHOICE and that is why your argument fails.
If you cant understand this then you should'nt be arguing about it.
God is "great enough to create people who WANT to do good things". Instead he created a variety of people with free will to make whatever choices they want.
There you go again answering a statement about what people WANT to do with your free will argument.
And you even made a post stating that you did not do what you just did for a second time.
I dont care about free will. I NEVER said anything about not having free will.
I am asking why he cant make people who WANT to do good.
See the operative word? The operative word is "WANT".
It has nothing at all to do with free will. How many times?
And I stated GOD can "make people who WANT to do good", but instead he made people with free will. People who aren't required to do or want to do a specific thing, but rather the choice to choose right and wrong. Sorry the BIBLE doesn't take your philosophy into account, but at least you have a choice.
That is directly implying that what you WANT to do is the same as your free will and that you can either have free will OR you can want something.
I already explained how you can want different things WITHOUT affecting your free will.
You're taking the piss aren't you? Seriously you are just repeating the same nonsense again and again despite me explaining in detail how what you are saying is rubbish.
There are plenty of people who WANT to do good. Religious and non religious alike. There are also plenty of those same people who WANT to do bad, or nothing at all either way. All because they WANT to, and they made a choice, awarded by the gift of free will. You're making things more complicated than they need to be by mixing in your own philosophy.
You dont choose what you WANT to do. You dont choose to like chocolate cake instead of arsenic. You dont choose to like girls instead of guys.
People do what they like to do. They want to do things that they like. Noone chooses what they like.
You're talking rubbish.
I think I figured out why you're so confused. You don't understand the true meaning of the words choose, want, and like. I've posted the definitions for your reference. Creating your own philosophy about things only adds confusion to the true meaning of whats actually written, if you take your own philosophy too seriously. Hope this helps.
Definition of CHOOSE http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/choose
a : to select freely and after consideration <choose a career>
b : to decide on especially by vote : elect <chose her as captain>
a : to have a preference for <choose one car over another>
b : decide <chose to go by train>
: to make a selection <finding it hard to choose>
: to take an alternative —used after cannot and usually followed by but <when earth is so kind, men cannot choose but be happy — J. A. Froude>
— choos·er noun
Definition of LIKE http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictiona … 1320628956
chiefly dialect : to be suitable or agreeable to <I like onions but they don't like me>
a : to feel attraction toward or take pleasure in : enjoy <likes baseball>
b : to feel toward : regard <how would you like a change>
: to wish to have : want <would like a drink>
: to do well in <this plant likes dry soil> <my car does not like cold weather>
dialect : approve
: to feel inclined : choose, prefer <leave any time you like>
See like defined for English-language learners »
See like defined for kids »
Definition of WANT http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/want
: to be needy or destitute
: to have or feel need <never wants for friends>
: to be necessary or needed
: to desire to come, go, or be <the cat wants in> <wants out of the deal>
: to fail to possess especially in customary or required amount : lack <the answer wanted courtesy>
a : to have a strong desire for <wanted a chance to rest>
b : to have an inclination to : like <say what you want, he is efficient>
a : to have need of : require <the motor wants a tune-up>
b : to suffer from the lack of <thousands still want food and shelter>
: ought —used with the infinitive <you want to be very careful what you say — Claudia Cassidy>
: to wish or demand the presence of
: to hunt or seek in order to apprehend <wanted for murder>
And what do you think my confusion is?
You are the one stating that if god made people who want to do good then they would have no free will.
You just posted the definitions yourself. I know what the words mean and I am using the very same defintions that you posted.
I'm not the one saying that people can either want something OR have free will. Thats what you're saying.
You're talking complete nonsense.
If you have preference, or are inclined to want to do good things, then do you not have free will? You are saying that you dont.
I am saying that you are talking rubbish.
What you want to do is not a choice. I want to get married to a woman. I dont want to get married to a man. That isn't a choice is? It is what I WANT to do. I still have the free will to marry a man though dont I?
In other words, I want to do something yet I STILL have free will.
You have no idea what you are talking about.
I choose to marry a woman, I choose to marry a man, because I want to. A choice made by free will granted from GOD.You philosophy is flawed.
My philosophy isnt flawed. Are you imbred or something? Why can't god create all men to WANT a girl and not a guy?
Its not a choice is it?
The same question goes for why he can't create people who want to do good.
No offence but you're a retard.
You insulted me early on, I think this return insult is round about due.
Sorry if you feel I insulted you, but I'm not sure where you think I did insult you. You can choose to do what you want with your life, because GOD gave you free will. But both you and I and everyone for that matter will be judged for those choices.
Well then if youre a straight man then go and have sex with another man.
Its a choice right?
Sure is, but I choose not to. Even if I was a gay man I can choose not to sleep with another gay man. I can choose not to have sex with anyone, or have sex with everyone, it's my choice.
Yeah right I suppose you're going to tell me you chose to be straight.
Stop talking rubbish. You have no choice whatsoever as to what sex you are attracted to.
Yeah you can have sex with a guy but why dont you? Because you dont WANT to.
Is that how god made you? To not WANT to have sex with men? Why cant he make people WANT to do good? He can make people WANT to have sex with the opposite sex without encroaching on free will but he cant make people who WANT to do good?
Give me a break.
"even if I was a gay man"
You're not thought are you and I bet you didnt have any choice whatsoever in what sex you were attracted to either.
You don't have to give in to every want, but you always have to make a choice.
Now I know you are taking the piss.
Sexual attraction is not a choice and your refusal to admit this simply displays your inability to accept that your free will argument is bullshit.
If that is what you choose to believe it's fine by me.
Wether or not sexual attraction is a choice is not up for debate and it is not a belief.
Sexual attraction is not a choice. FACT
I haven't seen any "facts" that support your philosophy. Do you have any empirical scientific proof that backs your claim?
Yes. Go and have sex with a man and tell me if you start liking it half way through.
If you want studies on the topic just google "is sexuality a choice". There are plenty of studies you can go through.
Just because you havent seen any doesnt mean there aren't hundreds of them. You probably never looked before.
If you think that sexuality is a choice EVEN based only on your own life then there is something seriously wrong with you. Either that or you're bisexual.
Do you like guys and girls or is it just girls?
Tell me you can get turned on by a guy. I bet you cant.
There are plenty of studies on lots of things. That doesn't constitute them as peer reviewed empirical scientific proof. Until you provide anyone with that evidence it is still just your philosophy.
The simple fact that you cant choose who are sexually attacted to is indisputable evidence to each and every person.
You talk nonsense all the time. Im going to bed now because I'm tired of your nonsense.
Go have sex with a man. Tell me you're not repelled by the thought.
Again more philosophy with no proof to support a so called "fact". Have a good night. I choose not to do the last part of what you said.
I told you already. Google "is sexuality a choice" and there will be plenty of studies giving you the evidence that you claim doesot exist.
The findings from these studies is evidence that sexuality is not a choice.
You choose not to have sex with a man becaue you dont want to. Why dont you WANT to?
You are like talking to a brick wall. You make no sense, you refuse to accept anything that is contrary to your baseless beliefs (you have no evidence to back up your claim that sexuality is a choice while the internet is awash with studies that back up my claim that it is not a choice) and you always revert to the simple "you dont understand" ad hominem attack which implies I am too stupid to understand a very simple argument when you are the one who is arguing their belief with NO evidence, even in the face of evidence to the contrary that you refuse to even look at.
All you have done is use fallacies for your fallacious argument.
Did I miss something? What happened to the logical explanation of the beginning of the universe thing? Oh yeah . . . I already answered it succinctly.
The universe? The onesong? It is. Therefore, it was. It was, so it could not have been was not. It always has been. Sing it forever.
Now, it is done. There is nothing left to talk about. You guys sure have a lot of time on your hands. Maybe creating a new hub will be more fruitful. Peace.
Haha kind of went off on a tangent. I dont even remember where it started.
That's cool and so is your presence around here, in my opinion. Very creative approach.
Thanks although many disagree and I do have to admit that I lose my cool rather too often even for my own liking.
You can loose your cool any time you want.
After all, self control is only a concept, it doesn't really exist.
Anger is a naturally evolved set of chemical reactions in the brain, so feel free to let happen, what come naturally.
If it causes you to smash you computer out of frustration, well, you evolved that way, so don't feel guilty.
Then you would love this guy named Wing who is the punter for LSU (Louisiana State - American College football - #in the nation right now). He is an exceptional Aussie rules player who moved here 2 years or so ago. See, American punters kicked punts in the back yard while the tough kids played tackle on the vacant lot. If they get the ball wrong, they panic and throw it wildly in the air or fall down in a fetal position.
This guy, Wing, doesn't even look like he is trying and kicks 70 yard (65 meter) punts all day long. It gets his team out of trouble on their own end and it is demoralizing as it sails over the head of the receiver. The coach has given him carte blanche to run when he sees an opening. He smoked the Gators (my team, Florida) for a 60+ yd touchdown. Florida defense is freakishly fast. When they closed in on him, he kicked into high gear and left them crying. The referee called "unsportsmanlike conduct" on him and nixed the touchdown. Wing flaunted it when he ran by the defense as they were falling on their faces. The penalty was bogus. He was running with the ball. They set the ball on the 15 yard line. LSU ran it right in. The Gators were still in shock.
It's the same all over. You can't be a writer if you don't have passion.
There is NO study agreed upon by the scientific community, or used as a reference, which states what you alleged. If there were, there would be no debate about the subject.
There are however thousands of studis and the experience of almost every human being. Or do you really think you could just up and decide to switch tams right now?
Seriously, their are surveys and studies where they tape pressure sensors to your genitalia and brain surveys. There *isn't* a scientific debate. Orientation is largely innate and even to the extent that it is effected by life experience, it is still not a conscious choice.
The only "debate" is from the Christian gay cure guys and a study of their methods show they flat out don't work and haven't worked. A gay guy cannot just decide to be straight, no matter how much he wants to.
Theres tonnes of studies. You are either blind or you are lying.
Prove me wrong. Turn yourself gay and then turn yourself back again.
Come on, if it's a choice it shouldn't be a problem for you.
I realize you're big into philosophy, so you don't understand the validity and power of a peer reviewed scientific study. You are just a blind follower of science.
Why havent you turned yourself gay yet? You do realise that if you can do it you will win the argument and I will have to concede. You're full of shit.
Cop out. You spend hours arguing your opinion even though you could prove me wrong in an instant just by turning yourself gay bt you dont want to. HA
It's not about proving you wrong. It's something I choose not to do.
Yeah whatever makes you happy. I know that you know I am not talking rubbish. You cant choose to be gay. You know it.
Again you CHOOSE to make baseless statements. Life is full of choices, it's up to you to make them.
Ok dude. What a shame you cant coose to be gay. Wouldnt that just give your argument a whole lot of backing?
One can choose whatever they like, but will be judged accordingly for every choice, right or wrong.
Yeah whatever. You know you should at least be honest to yourself. I dont care if you lie to me.
I am being honest, which was another choice I made.
I guess if you refuse to try then you dont have to lie to yourself. Refusing to try and turn gay is your brains own way of protecting your belief.
Good luck with that.
I don't need to try because I choose not to do that. Why would one try something they choose not to do? That doesn't make any sense.
Yeah. Neither does arguing for something that you cant even prove to yourself.
There's no need to prove anything to anyone. You are responsible for your own choices, and actions that accompany those choices.
If you havent even proven something to yourself then you have no place arguing it.
That makes you dishonest.
Why would I need to prove something to myself, that's already been proven for everyone. That doesn't make any sense, and has nothing to do with honesty. Do you prove why your lights turn on every time you flip the switch?
Being able to turn yourself from gay to straight or from straight to gay has been proven has it?
I was spot on by calling you dishonest huh?
It hasn't been proven, or disproven. There's no need to prove a choice, only the need to make a choice. Just as you choose whether or not to flip your light switch.
And no to the last question.
That's very interesting. You can be rest assured that I couldnt care less or your input since you have proven yourself to be talking shit.