while surfing i came across Christ myth theory which states that jesus was not historical character.
now i am not christian but i never doubted jesus existence as human..can non existing character influence billions?..how is that possible?..i dont think it can be the case...
to clarify, the myth states that Jesus was three persons meshed into one. Enoch, Yeshua and this brother James. They were both crucified. This can be read in some masonic books.
The point is the words,they were all said, the deeds all done but by three people across a period of three lifetimes not one.
The three embodied a certain teaching. So, really no big deal. the point is the life lessons were taught.
Thats rediculous, ofcourse Jesus exists, he made everything silly.
yeah, he made everything silly! Best phrase I have ever heard!
Not only is it entirely wrong, but the way it is worded makes it sound like he took serious stuff and made it funny.
The point being, if you believe in religion, or have even read the Bible or been to one Sunday School class, GOD made everything. Not Jesus.
And your argument is circular logic. Show me one historical account of his existence and I will bow down your obviously humble genius.
16 million people visit Disney World each year.
and 10 million of them are tourists...
BTW, Steve Jobs, John Pepper Jr, Fred H. Langhammer & Susan Arnold are the top board members.
Steve Jobs: owner Apple Inc.
John Pepper: The Procter & Gamble Company, Boston Scientific Corp.
Susan Arnold: Procter & Gamble, McDonald Corp.
Fred H. Langhammer: Estee Lauder; The Shinsei Bank Limited
totally. I understand if people don't worship Jesus as it's a free choice (thou I do) but He is a historical character, even atheits admit that, he is noted in History--watch the science/history chanel!
No. This is untrue. Sorry. Atheists admit no such thing, but thanks for telling us what we "admit."
Mark, I think that Schoolgirl was speaking of the atheists that do admit it. She wasn't directing it at you. No need to take it so personal, then mock people. You don't speak for all atheists, I know a good many that will often deal in facts, and some logic.
Which atheists admit it? There is almost no evidence and certainly the history channel is no reference to make.
I mean - if you are aware of some genuine references, I( am all ears. I have only found one and that is in dispute.
I realise that you need to defend this point - but please - do it with some facts instead of accusing me of not using facts or logic.
Facts that prove Jesus existed. Any time.
Hi Pisean, there are many reasons why people don't want Christ to a real historical person. Reasonings and arguments that agree with our own held beliefs are very attractive to us. The thing is, we don't want to delude ourselves, because we may miss something very big. He either was, or he wasn't a historical figure. I must warn, that many that I have discussed with, the finer details I mean, they often resort to unpleasantness and irrational thinking that lacks logic. Its hard to discuss things with people like that, because they seem to have something emotionally invested, and tend to get upset.
As for historical figures, you do bring up an excellent point. How is it possible that a person that was just a myth, not only changed so many countless lives, but continues to do? The obvious answer would be because he actually was just who he said and that that power and truth and light are still at work today, and it cannot be quenched. If its true, then its the best answer and remedy to every one that would believe, not for just this life, but for the next one, which is eternal. Its not just good news for all, its an explanation for literally, all we see and cannot control going on in the world around us.
i would like to disagree with you a bit..I believe christ was historical figure but not how you see him..by seeing so many religions , their claims , their believes what i have perceived that what we call as mircale and such things have worked for many..but for hindus , it has worked by worshipping krishna or sai or hanumaan , for muslims it has worked by worshipping allah and for chistians , christ..
since it has worked for all and various people irrespective to religion , what actually works is faith ..even if christ was say mere human..faith on christ would work ..
I am not an atheist but I agree that there is now proof of Jesus existence. I am not saying he did not exist, there were not exactly censuses or birth certificates back then. I have studied spirituality and religions for many years and I have come to the conclusion that it does not matter if he was born of the physical world or a creation of the mind he is real.
Too many people believe in him and are influenced by him for him not to be real in a totally objective way. Plus his message is good when it is followed from his teachings and not twisted by some church or preacher with a selfish agenda. Love and forgiveness and right living are good principles to live by and that is the gist of his teachings.
Sure they can, you can create someone and give them great qualities that people love. They don't have to exist just offer people hope through stories. Think of how powerful a rumor can be, doesnt have to be true just create the illusion that is it.
dont we have any archeological proof about jesus?
Do you need proof, religion is about faith, if you have proof then you need no faith!
.........and Christianity is not about religion. It's about a relationship with the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Religion is about rules and regulations where Christianity is not.
LOLOL what are all them churches and wars about then? Oh? 99% of Christians are not real Christians I guess.
So - Elton John says Jesus is gay. He has a personal relationship with The Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Can you confirm or deny this please? Based on what Jesus told you when he spoke to you.
Bubboo, that is right, and what Jesus taught. Its how it should be measured. We see so many, using the heretics of a religion as their basis for accusing and judging it. Its poor reasoning.
I don't know of any Christians that are Christians because of wars fought. I know of many that are Christians because of what Jesus taught.
Pisean, there is document proof, outside of religion. Many Roman/Greek satirists and statesmen wrote about him and the event.
As for archeological, I am not certain.
And based on that "myth or theory", I find it hugely fascinating that many anti-believers battle repetitively, violently verbal against believers who violently and repetitively battle back.
all this because of a simple gift given to humans to restore them to perfection. ( my brain had an image of people fighting over the bouquet at a wedding, heels digging into each other, hair pulling, muddy faces, torn dresses. The poor bouquet didn't stand a chance )
Rubbish. There is a few references making fun of a new religion. No references to an actual person or event. None. I can only find one archaeological reference. One. And that is a questionable reference to "Christ the Magician." Maybe.
http://deeperstudy.blogspot.com/2008/10 … racle.html
Really really funny how badly you defend your ISM though. Hysterical.
there's a good "atheist", just can't help yourself can ya
-- "pump up the blog-ume, pump up the blog-ume, dance dance..."
Now, open up. Wider. That's good. Now be sure you spoon feed your sarcasm to yourself. "God" knowles you need that nourishing err, nurturing. Oh, and for Peter's sake, use a bib to catch those leftovers -second thought, make that a drop clothe !
Dear me. Sorry my pointing out that you are baking porkie pies over there to defend your ISM, turns you into that which you claim to find ridiculous.
I keep telling you religionsts that is exactly what I do. No one seems to get it though. Odd that. I am just "doing unto others," as requested.
woo-woo-la-la. pump up the blog-ume !!
Bothers you that much huh? Good.
You should see the reaction I get when I tell them they cannot possibly have any moral standards because the Xtian religion teaches you not to develop any.
Oh and there is proof that Jesus was gay, but the Katholics hid it. Still - Elton John said Jesus was gay - and he has a personal relationship with Jesus - so he should know.
i was in the mood to enable you, Marcus. What, not even a thank you. That's just rude -even for you.
off to write on some "unclean" animals and why they taste sooo good.
then stop. you can't mark. You can't stop because you derive so much attention from it.
Dear me. Your analyses are getting even worse Woo woo. Sorry.
that's just because I'm getting to know how BADLY you need it.
You need to look deeper, as there many great reasons for taking Christianity seriously. I for one, wouldn't take your word for it, but I don't ask anyone to take my word for it either. Its in the facts... and in the reasoning, what is most reasonable, of all the things offered. For me, atheism comes off the table immediately as a position that explains what world we see and the human activity we observe.
What facts are these exactly? I understand exactly what the bible says. Quite honestly - I am shocked at how many people think there is a god after reading it.
What we have is 2000 years of conflict. That is the fact.
you are right there is conflict and plenty of it. Of which you add to. And yes it is a bunch of religious mumbo jumo that if people really believed what they preached, all this conflict wouldn't exist that being said. There are historical documents of the Census that was taken in the time of Jesus That does show of his existance in that time period. So religious beliefs or not Jesus did exist as a living breathing human being.
You preach your religion of non belief just as the fanatic pushes Jesus. What does it hurt you to let others believe? Besides you have no proof you are right just like they have no proof they are right. There is no way to know for certain.
You have faith in science maybe? But you can not know everything that is in the universes. No human does. Science believes their may be up to 11 dimensions and we can only perceive four of them (3 dimensions of space + time.) So if science is right there could be other intelligent beings that perceive our 4 dimensions plus 7 more.
Maybe they influence our world and we just can not see them. Maybe a few prophets have been touched by them? There is no way you can know the answers to these questions. You are arguing your belief against others beliefs and it is an impossible argument.
Christ myth theory - Jesus never existed!!!!!!!!
I only believe in Jesus because Quran mentions him and his mother Mary;otherwise there is no proof that Jesus, Moses ever existed.
The stories told by Bible are only mythical and superstition.
welcome to your religion, please stand next to the 'christians".
Sad isn't it, when you ONLY believe because you were told to or read it in a book...
A lot people find safety in the identity their religion gives them. As people learn more about their own nature, these clothes that they wear to feel empowered will be shed, and they will see that the power is still there. It is not the clothes that gave them power afterall but an inner strength found at the core of universal truths.
Many more than ever, are encouraging people to not take their word for it, but to dig deep, and search for truth themselves. The only people that blindly believe, are those that do. Even then, they may be on a right track, it all depends if its the truth or not. This is true for each of us.
thats how all beliefs get started unless the one you made up is the real one :-)
@paar how do you conclude that bible is full of myths and quran is authentic..now this is curious question..how do you know that quran was never altered?..quran was written after muhammad's deadth..right?..secondly muhammad didnt know how to write?..so people wrote as per his dictation..m i right?..also in translating from arabic to various languages ..is it now possible that meanings get diluted ?..how does one ensure that such things dont occur?
Hi friend pisean282311
We Muslim don't consider that Word of God's could be translated accurately; so we don't consider any translation an alternative of the original text; so we always try to give the text of the Arabic while translating Quran. The translation is considered to be commentary of the original; not an alternative of the original which is always there.
It is for this that though there are many denomination of the Muslims, yet the text in Arabic is the same with every one of them.
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
more like a dripping tap that needs a washer!
i got that paar..i have another question..if i am not wrong ..quran was not written during life time of muhammad..why?..second question is...companions of muhammad wrote quran once muhammad died..am i right?..if yes ..how did they write quran..i mean which procedure they followed?..did they sit together and discussed and wrote or some other way?
Muhammad verbally gave his teachings to his followers and they wrote down his teachings after his death. The fact that the Quran is in its original form keeps it from being corrupted through translations.
The Christian bible we read in English was translated from Hebrew to Greek to German to English. I know a lot was lost in translation. Do you know that the bible does not say Jesus was a carpenter? It says he was a laborer, carpenter was a mistranslation. If this common belief is wrong how many more mistakes do you think exist?
Also remember that Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are all part of the same religion and worship the same God. Only their approach is different. But they all worship the God of Abraham who is believed by all three to be the one true God.
Ofcourse he existed in that time but some claims are too far fetched like that guy was son of god and all. He managed to cure people then split the ocean and hey wait, he died on wooden block. shame for son of god.
why people can't get it:
the atheists or adjacent groups either claim he didn't exist or existed but wasn't what he and others claimed. Yet, for half their self stated nothing after this existence, profusely argue that point.
The believers believe He existed but don't get why he really existed and why he did all the things he did. Like saving them. From what? Sin. What sin? All sin. But still think they are sinners. And thinking they are sinners feel compelled to save other sinners who they call non believers. But how can a sinner save another if they themselves are still sinners? Then there's the whole brick-a-brack about Him saving them when the self proclaimed saved sinners bring these non-believers to him to be saved. But, he isn't here. And it just keeps going. Add to that some pseudo cereal spiritual voodoo woodoo, woo hoo lala and presto, instant access to the mysteries of heaven and balancing on the palm of Shiva.
explains why he said: he was grieved he made man...
yes Jesus is a historical character. He exists on Roman history archives. The Bible is a sure proof that He existed. Read the Bible!
The strongest point in favor of Christ myth theory is that "Jesus the God" never existed outside Bible!! Only three to four historical accounts talks about a Christos or Brother of James, who had been crucified.
Not necessarily this Christos or Brother of James is the same God Jesus we are talking about. This Christos is obviously not a significant person, hardly had some followers & the accounts doesn't talk about any of his miracles or anything about the term "Son of God".
Even if you take this Christos for granted as the real Jesus then you must realize that this guy hardly had as many as 500 followers maximum. World population at that time was around 3 Billion. Should A God/ Son of God/ Incarnate of God/ Messiah be so insignificant that he could only manage 500 followers among 3 Billion?? Could he be so insignificant that he came, he sacrificed & he left but 99.999% of the world population had no idea about him or his visit??? If it is ok for God to be so insignificant then I bet such Gods frequently comes & goes without any notification to mankind!
Thus if you are talking about the Christian Son of God, or The God Jesus, then obviously he never existed!
Yeah, but 50 days later, whammo, Holy Spirit hits town and there are 5,000 disciples added in one day, and from then onward, it just spread like topsy and now He's been heard all over the world, and has followers everywhere....
Not bad for a 'non existent' character....
...and we are still talking about Him!
I see u r claiming a lot of things without mentioning a solid source. Is it ur habit or is it the traits of all faithfoolers who blindly blv the fantasy tales mentioned in their holybook?
Do u have any solid source behind ur claim? If not, then pls dont talk rubbish. And when I say solid source I mean authentic historical accounts not the same old Bible!
How solid is knowing Him personally?
Good enough for me, so please don't be abusive just because you don't know Him.
Writing in full verse would also be an advantage, but I guess you are a text messenger!
Sorry, I didnt know he calls you frequently . If he calls u again then pls say 'Hi' from me .
Oh one more thing, can u ask him, ' how does it feels to be a baastard'?
.... and rude also.... suggestion:
ask him yourself when you see Him.
Nah, hes not my type. Plus I dont support his miracles like u do ...U better do the talking with that magical man...
being in that position...he surely stinks! ...So his followers!
Now you've offended his Lord big time!
You'd better watch out, cause now the fundie will start throwing Bible quotes at you and they'll hit your head.
You see, Rishy, fundies cannot tell the difference between objects & concepts. This is why they think that Jesus/Satan and Bible quotes will cause you harm
Now now...what did I do? Its the God who decided to show up in that Dogs buttock!! If their God has a stinky pathetic choice of appearing in a Dogs buttock, then they should blame Him, not me
well you essentially put the face of a man a lot of people look up to in a dog's butt.
religion aside, you do it for a reason that is entirely personal. some christian must have really made you feel like dog poop.
the historical/mythical figure didn't do anything to you. some of his followers perhaps did. Did they judge you for falling in love with your married friend? Did they make you say the rosary after looking at snuff?
whatever it is that makes you hate the symbol of their power over you, it won't do you any good to use a symbol as a punching bag. Why not just recognize that they don't have any power over you other than than what you allow them to. So you don't have to debase your self this way. Debasing others just pulls you down even lower.
As yoda once said: "I sense much fear in him. Fear leads to hate. Hate leads to anger. Anger leads to suffering"
Stuff like that shouldn't be allowed on hubpages. Its so truly offensive to so many. Moderators?
Stuff like you guys are posting here, are further proofs to many, that Jesus is indeed a historical figure, and alive and well. Nobody does this kind of stuff, to just a nice guy that promoted goodness and peace and forgiveness for your sins, that may be fictional in the past. Its indicative of much more going on, and how Jesus generates the same hatred today as he did then. Funny, he predicted it too. For a "fake" dude, he did pretty well foretelling of things. If he is real, he can't help but be promoted in rather odd ways like this through the people that so much want him to not be real. I find that rather ironic.
Nonsense. Jesus never existed. But - people like you spouting nonsense and hatred is what perpetuates the myth. Jesus generates nothing. It is you. You. No one else. You. Be a man - stand up and admit you are speaking for yourself. You are the one generating the hatred.
Proud of yourself?
I will paraphrase the bible:
1. Go around behaving like an arrogant, condescending so and so, claiming to be speaking for an invisible dead guy and telling everyone what they should be doing. Then don't do what you tell them they should be doing.
2. People hate it when you do that.
3. People are going to hate you.
The Perfect Word of God according to Mark.
...Stuff like you guys are posting here, are further proofs to many, that Jesus is indeed a historical figure, and alive and well.
Well, theres movies, books, cartoons, comics & many more things on fantasy figures like Hercules, mermaid, Zeus, Jupiter, spiderman, superman, tom & jerry. But it doesnt make them real nor historical figures.
I went to school with a guy called Jesus, poor guy went through hell......
Never saw him walk on water or turn water into wine though..
But he was there...... So he exists...
I'm an atheist and I tend to lean toward the belief that there was a man at the core of the myths. I believe there is somewhat of a consensus among historians that there was a historical person, possibly an itinerant apocalyptic preacher from Galilee, that the legends were built around after his death.
Believing in the Christ-myth theory is not necessary for me in my rejection of Christianity. I believe there is good evidence that Muhammad existed, however, I don't believe that he performed the miracle of splitting the moon in two as is claimed in the Qur'an. I don't think there is anyone here who would dispute the existence of Joseph Smith, but just because we accept that he existed doesn't mean that we also have to believe in the golden plates.
Bottom line: there is the Jesus of history, and then there is the Jesus of legend.
splitting the moon in two is a metaphor for penetrating the mystery. that is why the symbol of islam is a moon and a star that is reminiscent of Ishtar, the Assyrian Venus.
Man has the habit of myth-ifying historical figures.
The historical Muhammad & Jesus is completely different than the mythical Muhammad & Jesus. The fundamentalists will never agree that they were normal human & were unable to perform miracles. The historical account dont talk about the mythical or spiritual Jesus & Muhammad. The two accounts defines completely different personalities. Thus in a sense we can deny the existence of Jesus & Muhammad or at least the existence of the mythical Jesus & Muhammad.
Hi friend Rishy Rich
Neither Muhammad claimed of his being more than a human being nor a Muslim could believe that Muhammad was more than a human being:
[17:90] And surely, We have set forth for mankind in various ways all kinds of similitudes in this Qur’an, but most men would reject everything but disbelief.
[17:91] And they say, ‘We will never believe thee until thou cause a spring to gush forth for us from the earth;
[17:92] ‘Or thou have a garden of datepalms and vines, and cause streams to gush forth in the midst thereof in abundance;
[17:93] ‘Or thou cause the heaven to fall upon us in pieces, as thou hast claimed, or thou bring Allah and the angels before us face to face;
[17:94] ‘Or thou have a house of gold or thou ascend up into heaven; and we will not believe in thy ascension until thou send down to us a book that we can read.’ Say, ‘Holy is my Lord! I am not but a man sent as a Messenger.’
[17:95] And nothing has prevented men from believing when the guidance came to them save that they said, ‘Has Allah sent a man as a Messenger?’
[17:96] Say, ‘Had there been in the earth angels walking about in peace and quiet, We should have certainly sent down to them from heaven an angel as a Messenger.’
[17:97] Say, ‘Sufficient is Allah for a Witness between me and you; surely, He knows and sees His servants full well.’
[17:98] And he whom Allah guides, is the only one rightly guided; but as for those whom He allows to perish, thou wilt find for them no helpers beside Him. And on the Day of Resurrection We shall gather them togther on their faces, blind, dumb and deaf. Their abode will be Hell; every time it abates, We shall increase for them the flame.
[17:99] That is their recompense, because they rejected Our Signs and said, ‘What! when we are reduced to bones and broken particles, shall we really be raised up as a new creation?’
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … p;verse=89
Please see verse [17:94] with the verses in the context. Muhammad never claimed any divinity; there is no myth attacked with him.
Yes,Jesus is a myth created by Paul; undoubtedly
I sincerely express my faith; others could freely stick to what they believe with solid reason.
I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim
Lets see, how abnormal was his life events. Islam claims that - Muhammad was a man who divided the moon (with the help of Allah), he was man who took the Miraj & visited heaven in less than a second, He was the man who was in frequent contact with an angel called gabriel, he was the man who met God in heaven in his lifetime...YEP, YOU ARE RIGHT, HE WAS ABSOLUTELY NORMAL!!!
"Men are superior to women on account of the qualities with which God has gifted the one above the other, and on account of the outlay they make from their substance for them. Virtuous women are obedient, careful, during the husband's absence, because God has of them been careful. But chide those for whose refractoriness you have cause to fear; remove them into beds apart, and scourge them: but if they are obedient to you, then seek not occasion against them: verily, God is High, Great! Rodwell"
Show me the peace in Islam.
I betcha a nickel that there are all kinds of documentation afirming the existence of Jesus to be found in a library in Vatican City.
The work of Josephus has been corrupted by Christians adding the parts about Jesus into his works. His earlier writings do not mention Jesus at all. This was a common practice to try to add some credibility to the story of Jesus.
I can`t recall off hand but I have read many articles in my life attesting to the authenticity of Jesus. One such publication is the Biblical Archeologigal Review.
It`s also ironic that the ones who try to refute Jesus and His existance,(non-believers) spend every free moment of their lives here calling believers fools.
Why is it ironic? Your religion is evil and spreads nothing but hatred and conflict. Why is it ironic that some of us prefer to get rid of that if we can?
Mark, what about Jesus is evil to you? I hope you aren't using example of people in history that actually went against Jesus' teachings, and using THEM as a way to conveniently define Christianity for you. That is poor reasoning.
If you want to say something negative about christianity, say something negative about Christ, what he said or did. Using the heretics of a religion as the means to judge that religion is faulty at best. You will automatically have false data as your reasoning, and then appear very foolish yourself. Just trying to help.
Jesus was a hater
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:26)
These are the worst family values I have ever heard.
Jesus was a liar
19"Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. 20For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them." (Matthew 18:19-20 (NIV)
Get some of your Christian friends together, and pray for some amputees, and this experiment will confirm that Jesus was a BRAZEN LIAR. Just trying to help.
Mark, to add, if you don't like evil, and things that spread hatred and conflict, then Jesus is your man, actually. Please be careful what you read and who you listen to. There are reasons people distort the truth, don't fall for it. (Unless you are just into that, and in which case no one could help you to see reason and logic about this.) I don't want to assume the worst though.
Please take responsibility for your own actions. I am speaking to you. You are being condescending and spreading hatred and ill will. You are causing conflict by being so condescending. No one else. I am talking to you.
Deary me... weird thing... I was unaware this was an advice column or psychiatric prescription of what someone should or should not do. I was under the impression this was a discussion forum not a venting room, loathing gym or propaganda gum ball machine.
Another brownie button served!
I see the pot is calling the kettle black again. I am happy to discuss. I just object to some one telling me I am not speaking to them - I am speaking to an invisible, imaginary, dead god.
Twentyone, I agree, this hatred and negativity has gotten out of control here. I am not sure why that is allowed on Hubpages, but its discouraging.
It is a discussion forum, and not a place to bash whole groups of people, or so I thought. Its not a venting room either, but yet you see what I think are atheists spouting off, being hateful, and showing dogs butts, and peoples heads in their butts.
Its indicative of much more going on. Yes, I caught that you may be speaking to me , yet it makes no sense when you look at everything.
I am asking people to be fair, and discuss with facts and points being made. When it comes to dog piling with the stuff we see, isn't that just another way of people showing their hand. Its a waving of the white flag.
To have to resort to these kinds of tactics I mean. Its sad, and unfortunate. Please, Do not help support of the abuse of others.
Mark, please show where and how, so you can back up your accusations, thank you. Otherwise, you are doing what you accuse of, ironic that is.
Firstly - Jesus does not exist. If he did - he is long dead.
I did not say anything negative about Christ. I said it about Christianity.
Now - if you can prove to me that you are the one true Christian in the room - I am all ears, but to ignore 2000 years of conflicts is folly that will be repeated if we are not careful.
You yourself are claiming that a proud Christian nation murdered the indigenous Americans. Are you not?
Mark, how do you know Jesus didn't exist?
Christ, is why Christianity exists at all. No Christ No Christianity.
My goal was to get you to be fair, to judge Christianity fairly, by judging what Christ said and did. When you don't, you are judging a whole possible gamut of people, from Mother Teresa types, to Hitler...which isn't fair, because most will judge the heretical types.
My point is, if you want to judge christianity, judge its roots, Jesus. Otherwise, you will be addressing many people, that are sinners, but Jesus already did that long ago. He knew how sinful humanity would be. He knew there would be types like Peter, types like the Woman caught in adultery, and types like the Pharisees that claim a certain thing.
Those that are against Christianity, often are choosing to use the heretics of Christianity , which would be like cheating for your own gain, in a game. They don't define it, Jesus defines Christianity. I agree with you, in that those that did horrible things, are doing horrible things. They don't speak for Jesus and Christianity though. They are doing evil things, not good things. Just asking for fairness, and letting everyone see what was going on.
You and I and Jesus, so far agree on what kinds of actions are bad though, in a lot of ways. I find that part ineresting. I don't support segregation, or killing, or hatred, etc. You seem to not like it for the most part, except what I see here sometimes that is clearly hateful toward a whole group.
So - because there was once a religion that worshiped Thor - you are saying he existed?
I have judged Christianity on its past behavior. Is that not fair? I should instead judge it on a book that I know was re-written many, many times? And if I put 10 believers in a room, - they would not be able to agree what is written in it?
How do you know jesus did exist?
I see you have avoided all of my questions in an attempt to get me to agree that your religion is wonderful. History does not back this up - does it?
Mark, I think that your biggest issue is that I said Jesus is your man. Nothing else explains your lash out. If you don't like what you say about me, which you haven't shown or proven, then Jesus is your man. Don't get mad at me. I am just dealing with the facts here. He was a good guy, that promoted good.
Do you have such hatred for other religions also or just Christianity? All religions teach striving for perfection,failure and repentance.Do they not? What makes Christianity so different or worse?
I think that Christianity is so hated by so many, because it actually is true. Something that isn't real, that promotes so much good, doesn't generate this reaction. What does explain it, are the teachings of Jesus, oddly. If Christianity is true, then this makes sense. I have found no other world view that makes the most sense of this universe and of mankind than Christianity. That is why I am a Christian, in part.
Bottom line is ----
when it is all said and done( and the day is getting nearer and nearer)
"EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW , every tongue confess, that JESUS CHRIST IS LORD!"
That applies to everyone --- all humankind ----!!
There you go oceansunsets. Perfect, unprovoked example. Now tell me your religion does not cause conflicts and hatred? How can a shouted threat not cause conflict? Love? There is not an ounce of love in this statement.
& SOME KNEES SHALL BOW, TO GIVE A BLOW ...but dat excludes me
I prefer to stand. Kneeling reeks of slavery. So your declaration, based on your neurotic fear of reality, does not apply to everyone, only people who desire to be slaves.
Hey, for the Christians on this thread... just a hint. Yelling "'EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW, every tongue confess, that JESUS CHRIST IS LORD!'
That applies to everyone --- all humankind ----!!" won't do anything but make people angry at you. That isn't helping your cause at all. It's just you being annoying. Religion has caused a lot of evil. And it's caused a lot of death. But try to consider the idea that perhaps instead of the RELIGION being fundamentally evil, perhaps it is the followers. I think people are "evil" if you insist on using that word.
what a beautiful picture! (sorry, I can't believe you could actually sit down on those flowers though)
Of course Jesus doesn't exist.. like you and I, the whole universe and everything else beyond doesn't exist. Like this hubpages or any other webpoage don't exist
to oceannsunsets i love you i mean of course that i love everything you had to say. for everyone else i'm going to pray real hard for all nonbelievers and believers especially those of you who keep fighting. one of you made the point that it's not religion causing the "evil" but it's the people. i strongly agree with that. i am not here to fight but i will lay out my beliefs on this subject. Jesus exists because of faith but if you really need proof there is the Bible and yes there is archeological proof that goes along with the Bible. like for instance they have found what is believed to be Jesus' tomb and i saw a documentary from my library. it showed they have found abone fragments linked to Jesus. it was a foot with a piece of olive wood on it still in tact after at least 1500 years. there is more proof out there anyway that God and Jesus both exist. miracles happened in the Bible and miracles happen everyday. being alive is a miracle in itself. another thing if you fight about any religion you are really in turn fighting about Jesus. you also are fighting with those groups of that religion. i for one believe He existed and still does. just cause you dont see Him doesn't mean that He doesn't exist-that's what faith is. Believe and you will see! for those of you who use quotes in the Bible dont tell what they mean because everyone has a different interpretation of every verse in the Bible. if you are going to tell meanings of verses say that it means that to you. that's something people need to be careful of. after all you are giving your opinion not facts. and i agree some things posted here should not be shared on any website but especially one like this. but we dont control that. a question for all of you though those who are talking about this for attention are being supported. WHY? a question to thirdmillenium-if nothing and noone exists what do you call life? the word exist means to me that it has life either present past or future. and even things exist because people see, touch and use them usually daily. i am not criticizing anyone but i sure do see more nonbelievers on these forums. i don't see how even after you see or hear about the evidence or proof that you still don't believe. and this goes for everyone how can you believe in one thing and not something that goes along with it? i mean it's all tied together. if you believe in God then why don't you believe in His son, His word, His truths that He Himself wrote. Well He used people to write the Bible but you know He wrote the ten commandments. share thoughts and beliefs but dont fight. you are doing exactly what you're saying everyone else is doing. by the way do unto others is another thing that can be interpreted differently so be careful when you use that. if you can't back up something dont say it because it's going to cause conflict. these days everyone wants proof for anything said. and read between the lines. its something you have to do if you are looking for a source. sometimes its not in big bold print but it is mentioned. to sum it all up i think it's safe to say most hubbers need to read some of the hubs ive written. they might explain some things mentioned here. and obviously i need to hurry with writing my books so people can read them. i'm gonna try hardeer to finish them. now i know that they really are needed. but to everyone belif and faith are your decisions. but i just dont get it. oh EVERY KNEE WILL BOW EVERY TONGUE WILL CONFESS THAT JESUS CHRIST IS LORD. YES THIS DOES GO FOR EVERYONE-ALL HUMANKIND. ITS NOT A THREAT ITS gOD'S WORD OF WHAT WILL HAPPEN WHEN jESUS COMES AGAIN AND IF THIS IS ANNOYING THEN THE BIBLE IS ANNOYING THEREFORE GOD IS ANNOYING TO YOU AND THAT TO ME MEANS YOU NEED SPIRITUAL GUIDANCE. JUST MY OPINION.
The bible is not annoying. It is the delusional thinking of believers that is annoying. YOU are the ones spreading this false fairytale you call the bible.
You just go around threatening people, and think you are doing the SKY DADDY'S work. And you can't even back up your baseless insane threat. Where is your proof that EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW? Did you project yourself into the future, to witness this, or something? If not, you have no authority to make such a bold claim. All you have is a book of fairytales that proves nothing.
OH AND ANOTHER THING I BELIEVE IS RIGHT. YES CHRIST IS THE REASON FOR CHRISTIANITY. THE NAME IS EVEN IN THE WORD!!!!!!
NONE OF US SHOULD BE JUDGING ANY PERSON, PEOPLE OR THIER RELIGION. THATS GODS JOB AND YES JESUS ALREADY DID THIS BUT IT WILL HAPPEN AGAIN.
I AM A CHRISTIAN I BELIEVE HE EXISTS AND I DO KNOW WHY. IT DOESN'T TAKE A GENIUS TO FIGURE OUT WHY HE EXISTED OR WHO HE WAS. AGAIN IF YOU NEED PROOF ITS ALL IN THE BIBLE. EVEN THE OLD TESTAMENT TELLS OF HIM.
ITS HARD FOR ME TO BELIEVE THAT A PERSON MADE ALL THIS UP AND NONE OF IT EXISTS. THAT MEANS THEY MADE UP EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN HISTORY OF RELIGIONS. THEN THE BIBLE IS MADE UP TOO. IF SOMEONE WAS SMART ENOUGH TO PUT ALL THIS TOGETHER AND MAKE PEOPLE BELIEVE IT I THINK WE WOULD ALL KNOW IT. WHY WOULD A HUMAN MAKE ALL OF THIS UP AND CLAIM TO BE A HIGH POWER. THIS IS AN IDEA THAT THERE IS NO PROOF OF! SO YOU CAN BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT BUT I'D LIKE TO SEE SOME REAL BACKUP FOR ANY OTHER BELIEF BESIDES THE BELIEF THAT HE EXISTS.
IN ANYTHING I WRITE I DO NOT CRITICIZE OR JUDGE THEREFORE IT IS NOT MEANT TO BE TAKEN THAT WAY. THATS NOT THE PURPOSE GOD HAD IN MIND FOR ANY OF US. I KNOW IT WASN'T FOR ME. THIS IS MY WAY OF BEING AN EVANGELIST. AND WHAT I AM WRITING ARE MY BELIEFS AND OPINIONS. IF IT'S TRUTH TRUST ME I WILL BACK IT UP. BUT IF I BACK IT UP WITH BIBLE VERSES YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT THOSE ARE INTERPRETED DIFFERENTLY. I THINK THE POINT IS TO BELIEVE WHAT YOU BELIEVE AND YES YOU CAN TEACH YOUR BELIEFS. BUT YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOURCES AND BACK UPS THAT ARE PROVED TO BE TRUE. IN THIS WAY WE ARE ALL SPREADING TEACHINGS OF SOME KIND OF TRUTHS.
THANKS FOR READING. I LOOK FORWARD TO READING COMMENTS OR ANSWERING QUESTIONS. MUCH LOVE AND PEACE TO ALL.
Another believer imposing the strawman fallacy on us!
Just because it's hard for you to believe that a person made this up, does not make it true. It just makes you gullible. It makes you fearful, and willing to submit to authority, even if it means losing your integrity.
No, they didn't make up every single person in the history of religion. Some of those people actually existed outside the bible. The bible is guilty of misrepresenting historical figures.
This "SOMEONE" wasn't even smart. That's why we DO know that it is a fraud. You choose to believe, because you are full of fear--to the point where you are willing to abdicate your rational thinking. AGAIN, WE DO KNOW! However, it takes honesty. You should try it.
So, tell me why wouldn't a human make this up?
And, if you don't know why a human would make this up, it's no wonder you're a sheeple. Where is the proof that the bible is the word of the creator, except in the bible?
OOPS SORRY ABOUT MISTAKES IN THOSE LAST COMMENTS. GOD AND JESUS SHOULD HAVE BEEN CAPITALIZED THERE. I FORGOT I HAD CAPS LOCK ON. PLEASE DONT TAKE OFFENSE OR FAULT ME FOR THIS. TO ERR IS HUMAN AFTER ALL. I'LL PROOFREAD IT NEXT TIME. DEFINITELY.
Christ myth theory - Jesus never existed!!!!!
Okay, one problem here....
Christ isn't Jesus and Jesus isn't Christ.
Jesus, the actual man, didn't have a last name, as Christianity claims. This is historical fact.
Christ, was created for Christianity(Religion).
The OT has a false god, and the NT is derived from Paul. Both useless, because both are man made. Jesus knew the god of OT was false and told his followers. The NT was nothing to do with Jesus, but put Christ at the center, dismissing the OT's god and reassigning the "god" value to Jesus.
Jesus lived. Christ is myth.
...Jesus lived. Christ is myth
Okay, another problem here...
We dont have enough solid historical accounts of Jesus outside bible. Out of available four reliable sources: One called him Christ (Pliny the Younger), one called him Christus (Tacitus) & the third one mentioned him as Chrestus (Suetonius). Only Josephus Flavius mentioned him as Jesus. You see historically the possibility of the existence of Christ is more evident than Jesus. However, not necessarily this Christus is the same Jesus of Christianity, as these historical accounts mention a very insignificant Christos.
Sorry to say but your claim is just an assumption & is lacking significant amount of evidence. If its your faith, then I must also say you are not much different than the Christians.
Glad you think so, but that's okay. I have no problem with you thinking what you want.
I see that you technically avoided my response but its ok with me especially when you don't have a rational response to give.
But dont take it personally, coz Its not me finding flaws in your faith, its the spirit of rationality which always seeks loophole in such baseless notions.
I don't dignify chosen ignorance. Hence, you can believe what you want.
My faith? Boy are you out in left field somewhere not on this planet. If you understood "faith" and it's human spirituality correlation, then you would not have made your statement. But, you feel good about yourself, since you haven't a clue in the first place.
Big words!! same old cagsil ! Bursting with pride but lacking in rationality. Irrelevant words doesnt make you look smarter no matter how big it sounds ..I have nothing more to say except one thing - Faith is often the boast of those minds who are too lazy to investigate!
Gud Luk to ur faith & Gud nyt to ur arrogance!
Just your reply show it. Enough said.
See, from your words alone, you've not a lick of respect for yourself, so not worth addressing any longer. When you grow up, do come back and see us.
'See us' you say? Do you need a whole bunch of group to counter me? lol...thats a shame! I thought you would be smarter
If you care to look closely at the works of Josephus you will find the passages mentioning Jesus were inserted by zealous believers many years later. The earliest examples of the writings of Josephus do not mention Jesus at all.
There has been a concerted effort by religious organizations to rewrite many of the historical documents to include Jesus because of the embarrassing lack of mention about him.
The earthquake, darkness, and walking corpses mentioned in the NT are not referenced at all by the contemporary historians of the time. I find it unimaginable that Pliny, Josephus, and others would not have mentioned these highly unusual events if they had ever occurred.
Even the different authors of the books in the NT describing the Crucifixion seem to have differing viewpoints. I really wish there were some dependable evidence to be read about the man himself. But there isn't at this time!
There has been an orginization on this earth for over 1600 years; collecting every document that could be found and storeing them in their own personal library.
There is little else to be found.
Little difference is these two tomes. Same psychotic messages.
Qur’an 5:51 “Muslims, do not make friends with any but your own people.”
Qur’an 5:72 “They are surely infidels who say; ‘God is the Christ, the Messiah, the son of Mary.”
Qur’an 8:12 cp. 8:60 “Instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers”; “smite above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them”
Qur’an 2:191 “...kill the disbelievers wherever we find them”
Qur’an 9.33 He it is Who sent His Apostle with guidance and the religion of truth, that He might cause it to prevail over all religions.
Qur’an 2:193 “And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah”
Qur’an 8:71 And if they intend to act unfaithfully towards you, so indeed they acted unfaithfully towards Allah before, but He GAVE YOU MASTERY OVER THEM
Qur’an 8:55 Surely the vilest of animals in Allah’s sight are those who disbelieve.
You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20
Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10
Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16
Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7
Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13
Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20
Both are off-the-wall madness.
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