Do we worry too much about money?

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   Flightkeeperposted 14 years ago

   Philippians 4:11-13
   For I have learned to be content, whatever the circumstances may be. I know now how to live when things are difficult and I know how to live when things are prosperous. In general and in particular I have learned the secret of eating well or going hungry of facing either plenty of poverty. I am ready for anything through the strength of the One who lives within me.
   
   I came across this verse and I think we've lost sight about the role of money in our lives so that we end up worrying too much about money. We're so used to having it that we do all sorts of things to rely on it. But most enjoyable things really don't need a lot of money. So what will you do going forward to be more balanced in your attitude to money? As a Christian, what should your relationship to money and possessions be?
   
   Just throwing it out there.

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      Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      That's the answer, though I know I'm misinterpreting you!
      
      If you find yourself with real money (as distinct from credit) it's good to be expansive with it. Give some away, treat friends, help others.

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      nloganposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Awesomely put! We don't need lots of money God gives us everything we need! and much more! Sometimes we make unwise decisions and end up needing more! But we should live and learn!
      
      Thanks for post flightkeeper!

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      carboncopymeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Some people do and some people don't.

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   Flightkeeperposted 14 years ago

   Well I think giving to charity is an easy thing to do.  I was thinking more about the Christian relationship to money and how far Christians have deviated.  As you said, people get into trouble because they buy a house that's too expensive and have a big mortgage, they buy the latest things and usually use credit cards. So whatever happened to being prudent? And is it still good to be prudent if spending is what has made our economy grow?

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      Paragliderposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I don't think there is any distinctive Christian relationship to money. Having lived in Christian, secular and Muslim states, money seems to do its own thing, regardless.

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         Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Well there is a distinctive Christian relationship to money except that I think we forgot about it.  You know that old saw about the love of money is the root of all evil.  There seems to be a less balanced view nowadays which is why we as a country and huge number of people are in so much trouble.  We sort of equate the pursuit of happiness with acquiring the latest gizmo or the latest lifestyle.  Greed being one of the seven deadly sins is not discussed because greed is good now (a movie said so!) Furthermore ministers don't really discuss stuff like that without making you feel guilty if you have money, it seems.  If you live as a Christian, shouldn't those things be discussed?

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   habeeposted 14 years ago

   I kinda see money as a necessary evil.

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      Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Hi Habee, do you think Christians who do see it as a necessary evil keep themselves from attaining wealth?  It's just that you see so many people giving money that they need, to the megachurches because I think they see it as some sort of sin but it just pisses me off when they are in such dire straits when they could be helping themselves with a realistic attitude.

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         nloganposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Very true! I give to my church but we do outreach to poor and projects at least 3 times a week. And all we have to do is buy a pizza or box of sodas.... We should definitely tithe first, and then help ourselves and maybe charity if there is any money left over??!!

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      Kimberly Bunchposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Me too! Without it we are in very bad shape!
      
      

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   LeanManposted 14 years ago

   You keep saying "Christian"... I live in saudi arabia, I see no difference here than in christian society with regard to people pursuing money and spending it on big cars and even bigger houses!

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      nloganposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      This is for if you are a christian....and i'm pretty sure there are christians there! lol and yes no matter what country your in people can work on their spending!

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      Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Well that's the point LeanMan.  Half of us consider us still a Christian nation but that only means that we believe in god and go to church at least once a month.  But few really seem to know about christian living, even I don't really know what that means.  Regarding relationship towards money, should a well-off Christian be ostentatious and pursue money for the sake of it (and buying things that aren't really needed)? I don't think that's what is in the Bible.  Anyway I just wanted to throw it out there as a topic because I don't see it being addressed anywhere.

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   Cagsilposted 14 years ago

   No one should pursue money, just for the sake of doing so. It only leads to corruption and greed, which perpetuates dishonesty and selfishness.
   
   Those who pursue money, just for the sake of doing it, actually have no clue about money or it's power and also do not respect it.
   
   The fact that money is only a tool to use is what escapes most.

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   michaelmalyonposted 14 years ago

   Money has a place and value, in the right context.
   
   Firstly, God wants man to work. It improves ones self respect and understanding for the world. Imagine stealing something worth a thousand dollars. If you get a hundred dollars for it, you will sell it. In other words, you cannot understand the true value of something unless you earn it. It helps things to become more personal and enjoyable. Hence, someone that steals will never have much. He won't take care of his possessions as they don't have value, and that which he does have will be empty  as it doesn't give him dignity.
   
   A second consideration is the effort that God puts into our lives. If we could compare the results of His handiwork with the results of my own human limitations, i will gain a much broader understanding of how much i mean to Him. The sun, several million times bigger than earth, was designed to keep you warm. You struggle to supply your families needs. How much effort does God put into keeping your heart beating, making the food that you eat grow, keeping you safe? Work is good- if approached from the right frame of mind. Hence money can be good too

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      Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      What are all the other stars "designed" for then?
      
      
      
      Obviously, not enough effort. He can't seem to keep the food supply in line with his output of human creations. Bad management on his part.

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   jerrylposted 14 years ago

   Flightkeeper,  People have differing views or ideas about what money actually is. 
   
   Under our current monetary system, money is the root of all evil, in that all M1 money, (The only money that the people, businesses and government are allowed to use, to pay our everyday bills), can only be created through the extension of credit from private commercial banks!
   
   This means that Christian or not, we have no choice but to be slaves to the federal reserve fractional banking system. 
   
   If we do not borrow, we would collapse the system and not have a medium of exchange!  If we continue to borrow, we go further into the immense debt hole we have already dug for our children.
   
   If you have money in the bank, or your pocket, you could not possibly have that money unless someone else, either individually or collectively has an equal amount of debt.
   
   All money created under this system, is backed by man's productivity.  But it is not his current productivity, it is his future productivity.  All money is created as debt, with no money created to pay the interest on that debt.  Therefore, we are always creating a debt greater than the debt money supply created.
   
   Businesses pay their loans off by raising the price of their goods and services to the public.
   
   Government pays their debts by raising your taxes.
   
   You the consumer, pay for all of the borrowing, even if it just to service the interest on that debt. It constantly raises your cost of living.
   
   Think about this seriously.  businesses that pay you wages, didn't always have money, nor did the consumer.  Money has to be created somehow.  Where would you go if you needed a large amount of money?  Unless you were among the 5% of the richest people, or had a rich relative, I am sure you would have to go to a bank.
   
   Bankers will loan you money if they figure you are a good risk.
   They have you sign a loan agreement or mortgage, placing a lien on your property and your future productivity for the duration of the loan you apply for.
   
   In that loan process, the bankers by law, need only to have 10% in reserve, and the entire amount of the loan can be created our of thin air, on your promise to pay it back.
   
   So who is creating the money for the loan?  Is it the banker, who risks nothing, or is the money being created by the person borrowing the money?  Doesn't it appear that the bankers are creating the loan principle on the borrowers promise to pay it back? Remember, there is never any money created to pay interest on loans. That means that in order for money to exist to pay interest, more borrowing must occur, or the system would collapse.  It's either that, or we must pay interest on debt that is constantly growing, and never actually pay off the debt principle of the loans.
   
   To get back on track, many christians really never can control money.  This system is designed to keep the working man in semi-slavery, by having his cost of living and taxes go up constantly, due to the nature of this debt system. Most people have no clue that this is how this monetary system works!
   
   I hope this sheds some light on you topic and gives you a better idea of why some things monetary cannot be avoided.
   
   Jerryl

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      Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Hi Jerry, yes i understand that much of modern finance is dependent on credit. In fact a lot of our country's economic success is because of credit.  So again, what is the Christian response to that?  I agree to some extent, the value of money has been diminished because it is based really on nothing but faith in the borrowers and their ability to pay it back.  Should I as a Christian decline to go into banking to avoid that situation or what is my role in influencing the situation so that I'm not contributing to building a financial empire built on sand.
      
      Now, why don't you have any hubs in the six months you've been here? I'm likely to think you're a sock puppet.

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         jerrylposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Flightkeeper,  No sock puppet.  Just trying to educate as many people as possible about the sinister nature of the monetary system.  My friends and I have been trying to pass legislation designed to change this monetary system from one of debt, to one of wealth.  Our Minnesota
         legislators agree that the system is flawed, but whenever we get a hearing before committee, the bankers lobby shows up and then the bought and paid for legislators table our bill.
         
         The only way we can save this nation from eventual monetary collapse, is by educating the masses.  One of our group is going to run for Lt. Governor this year.  Another of our group travels the country speaking to interested groups.  As far as hubs go, I have never even looked into how to start one.  I have many irons in the fire here in Minnesota.  Our group does not accept any money, nor do we charge fees for any of the work that we do.  We feel it is our obligation to try to leave a better world for our children and grandchildren.
         
         What you should do as a Christian, is up to you. I would never try to tell you what you should do.   As for myself, I try to get as many people as possible to contact their legislators, demanding change.   Until the legislators undedrstand that they could be voted out of office, they will continue to allow the bankers to have their way.  Of course, having banker donations to one's election campaigns carries weight also.
         
         This monetary system is based totally on debt!  Where is it written that we cannot have a system based at least partially, if not totally on rewarding man's productivity and creating money as an evidence of wealth to the people,  rather the an evidence of debt.  Currently, we are  forced to borrow in order to have a medium of exchange? 
         
         I just thought my post was trying to give you another perspective on why some people, Christian or not, react or behave the way they doin regards to moneyh.   In truth, most people have no clue as to how money is created and how it gets into circulation.
         
         Jerryl

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            Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Jerry, you have a lot of interesting things to say.  If you were to write a hub about the issues, perhaps you can influence people outside of Minnesota and coordinate nationwide in order to override the influence of the bankers.
            
            Just a thought. Thanks for responding.

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               jerrylposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Flightkeeper,  Thanks.  I will give a hub some serious thought.  Not as ambitious as I used to be.  Just turned 70 in June.  I enjoy your posts.
               Keep bringing up interestine topics.
               
               Jerry

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   Flightkeeperposted 14 years ago

   I think that's a great response, Michael, and thanks for responding. In the traditional sense, money has worth because of so much effort that you put forth in order to make your money. Now what happens when how you make your money is not related to manual labor but in an office environment and everything is done through the click of the computer.  If you are a Christian in sales, brokerage, banking, finance, government, money flows easily through your fingers and it's not really yours. What is the Christian to do in those situations, what is the individual responsibility? In many ways those professions have lost sight of the value of money and perhaps it is their indifference and disengagement to the value it has for other people that has brought us to where we are in bad financial straits and why people in main street just look at those industries with such anger.
   
   Another side of it is that if the value of money gained from the effort it took to make it, then what happens to people on welfare who don't earn it but are charity cases.  How would they be able to learn the value of money if they know that they can always get it without working.  Shoud we let them struggle to earn that check?  What is the Christian response to government and its policies regarding welfare?

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   Flightkeeperposted 14 years ago

   Wow you just turned 70? Happy Belated Birthday Jerry!

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    brotheryochananposted 14 years ago

    Matthew 6:21 "For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also".
    
    This is a powerful scripture, it reflects upon every aspect of christianity and secular life whether spiritual or carnal. It attaches itself to ones love of god and even our possessions.
    I have heard many say, "oh its good to own nice things". and yes it is but is it necessary? Where you're heart is... SUV or compact stationwagon, smart vehicle or jaguar, but i am not going to discuss this aspect whether you spend 40,000 on a vehicle or 3,000 that's between you and god. Indeed if the person who spent 40,000 on a vehicle ending up spending 20,000 on a vehicle, how much more would they have to spend in the service of god. End of that topic.
    Now with tithing. 10%. Simply put, Matthew 6:21. 10% of 1,000 dollars is 100 dollars. Is your heart not for god up to the price of 100 dollars?
    and are you spending 40,000 on a car just to let it depreciate 10,000 right off the lot? I think some re-assement needs to occur here.
    
    We are all very familiar with how god feeds the sparrows and causes all things to prosper. When israel obeyed god and walked in his ways, they were more than provided for. And what about us? It seems we need to examine ourselves and see whether we be in the faith, if God is going to bless us or not and this may be the main factor for people having a two or more god system, one god they profess to be yahweh all the while paying homage to the god of money while bowing to the luxurious over indulgences of this worlds properties.
    
    Everything is on earth for the USE not the MISUSE.

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       Kimberly Bunchposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Love that verse. It is powerful and totally awesome.

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