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144,000 is this literal or symbolic

  1. profile image55
    haj3396posted 7 years ago

    There will be only 144,000 righteous people on earth when Jesus Come the second time. Everyone else will be wick. The first time the world was destroyed on 8 people remain out of a world.

    1. Shadesbreath profile image83
      Shadesbreathposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Pretty scary when you think about it, eh?  A divine being that is incapable of saving more than the tiniest fraction of the "children" he created, despite having unlimited power AND having this round be his second go at it.  He's only improved from 8 to 144,000.  You'd think with all that omnipotence he could have done better the first time, much less the second.  Crazy stuff, that.  Gotta love it.

      1. mrpopo profile image79
        mrpopoposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Common Shades... third time's the charm!

    2. Jerami profile image73
      Jeramiposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Your comment is incorrect.
          What is ACTUALLY written is that there will be 144000 perfect human beings that do not need to be washed in the blood of Jesus. They are perfect never having known sexual pleasure, never ben dishonest, and worshiped the Lord with ALL of their heart and mind.  And then there is you and me.

      These 144000 will be redeamed from among man. They do not taste of death.

        Then there is the rest of us.   There will be such a multitude of multitudes that are saved by the saving grace of Jesus christ.  Washed of our sins in the blood of Christ.


         That is what the scripture says when we take out all of the
      "wish it were this way kind of "INTERPRETATIONS"

      1. Kharisma1980 profile image78
        Kharisma1980posted 7 years agoin reply to this

        I don't think your interpretation is correct - the 144,000 are righteous because they have their robes washed in the Blood of the Lamb. The only perfect human being is Christ Jesus.

        144,000 is a symbolic number that represents the entire People of God. Many people believe that the "great crowd" a few chapters later who are in robes worshiping the Lamb is the same group of people.

        1. Jerami profile image73
          Jeramiposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          I think that it is not an interpretation when the words nor the the message is being changed.

             Rev. 14:3,4 & 5 says that these 144,000 were redeemed from the earth, having "Not Been Defiled" nor in their mouths were found no guile, They were true to their faint in God and the Lamb.

            It apears to be saying that they had no need of a bath in the blood of the Lamb.

            It seems to me that we have to pass through death (as he did) in order to be washed in the blood of the lamb.

      2. Daniel Carter profile image79
        Daniel Carterposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        I'm afraid that completely negates the atonement, Jerami. If anyone lives a perfect life and then after this life walks up to Christ and says, "Thanks, but no thanks, I didn't need the atonement," do you suppose that's what God really had in mind?

        The mystery of numbers in the Bible are not truly known. The book of Revelation is told as if it were a dream, so you have interpret the dream, not always the literal meaning.

        I have no idea what the 144,000 is about. But it's A LOT OF PEOPLE BEING SAVED, and therefore, could symbolically be the whole of humanity.

        After all, that's what the atonement is supposed to be about. Being saved. The fact that humans judge each other to damnation doesn't have any bearing on what God's take on it is. We are only guessing at best.

        1. Jerami profile image73
          Jeramiposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          This is just my opinion ?  But I think that all of these prophesy have been unfolding from the time that they were given.

            I sometimes forget that I seem to be the only one on here that believes this.

            In the futurists point of view this would not make sence.
            My point of view begins with believing that Daniel Chapter 9 should be believed exactly as written; interpreting as little as is possible.
            Which means that the 62 weeks until Messiah is "cut off" began as it seems to be saying (in 538BC). 
            If we believe this message from Gad as it is written? 568 of our years is equal to 62 weeks in prophesy.

             Believing "THIS" message from God as it was given, will change the way that a person understands ALL of scripture.

             For me; it seems as if the lights are turned on in a dark room.  And there is no longer a need to change the meaning of the message. 

            The mark of God was PUT on 144,000 people. By the power of this mark that was given to them they were able to be protected from temptation and they taught the perfect word of God.

            Being redeemed from among mankind, for them was kinda like recieving atonement before the need arose. They did not live a Perfect life by their own will, but by the will of God.
             The "first fruits" unto the Lord were blemishless because they were preordained  TO  BE  perfect in everyway.
            This was for the fullfillment of Prophesy as stated in Daniel 12:1.  and  "ALSO" many of those that sleep in the dust of the earth 

             I do admitt that this  may be just MY interpretation.
             It is the way that I understand it to read.

          1. profile image0
            jerrylposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            Jerami,  Weren't all men born in sin?

            Also,  If the did not live a perfect life by their own will, but by the will of god,
            then for them to receive atonement before the need arose, means that when God said that man would have dominion over things, it was a false statement.  They could not have had dominion over their own lives.

            1. Beelzedad profile image56
              Beelzedadposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              Nope. I was born in the backseat of a Greyhound bus rolling down highway 66. Or was that, highway 666? wink

      3. profile image55
        haj3396posted 7 years agoin reply to this

        The only person that is righteous is Jesus Christ, we (that's everyone) get our righteousness from Christ. Isaiah 64:6
        But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy RAGS; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. Romans 3:10
        As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: why, will so many be lost because they do trust in God and his word,do you?

    3. earnestshub profile image87
      earnestshubposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      What a pile of dog droppings!
      Funny how you religionists all read the same book, then wind up killing each other about what is the "truth"

      The bible like the quoran is a pile of hate filled crud designed by sick old men for the great unwashed to control them with fear. smile

      1. thirdmillenium profile image60
        thirdmilleniumposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        More power to your pen, Earnest. Your passion at hating innocuous Christians is the way to go, attaboy!

        1. earnestshub profile image87
          earnestshubposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          Never mentioned christians! lol
          As I have said before, I don't do hate. smile
          I'll leave the hate to the god-botherers.

      2. profile image55
        haj3396posted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Why do young men like you trust only men not God. all I hear from you earestshub is hate and hear. If you are so together then help your brother. Because there is a lot of fear out there.

    4. profile image62
      paarsurreyposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Hi friends

      Please quote the source of the figures of 144,000 and "8 people".

      Thanks

      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

      1. earnestshub profile image87
        earnestshubposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        it must be the biggest job in the world to make this look good! Go for it! lol

        Qur’an 8:7 “Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: ‘Wipe the infidels (non-Muslims) out to the last.’”


        Qur’an 8:39 “So, fight them till all opposition ends and the only religion is Islam.”

        Qur’an 8:59 “The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them. They are your enemy and Allah’s enemy.”

        Qur’an 8:60 “Prepare against them (non-Muslims) whatever arms and cavalry you can muster that you may strike terror in the enemies of Allah (non-Muslims), and others besides them not known to you. Whatever you spend in Allah’s Cause will be repaid in full, and no wrong will be done to you.”

        Qur’an 8:7 “Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: ‘Wipe the infidels (non-Muslims) out to the last.’”

        Putrid!

      2. profile image55
        haj3396posted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Rev 7:1-8 144,000 was sealed  Genesis 6:1-18 8 people

    5. Beelzedad profile image56
      Beelzedadposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Speaking of numbers, and I don't know the source, but in the bible, god manages to kill over 32 million people while Satan only kills 8 people. smile

      1. earnestshub profile image87
        earnestshubposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Ah yes! It's all because god love us! lol lol lol

      2. profile image55
        haj3396posted 7 years agoin reply to this

        No one have died yet, there just sleeping.

        1. Beelzedad profile image56
          Beelzedadposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          LOL! big_smile

    6. profile image0
      DoorMattnomoreposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      no 144,000 get to go to heaven.

      1. 7thangel@seventh profile image57
        7thangel@seventhposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        NO! 144,000 is a given year hidden in the foolishness of man....God Bless

    7. profile image49
      Bea77posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Dear Haj3396,
      If you look at the scripture you took those words from, you will see that the Apostle John who received this vision said in Revelation 7:4 "And I heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and fourty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel:"
      The sealed number means it cannot be changed or altered.
      The tribes mentioned from verses 5-8 were not referring to literal Israel, as he mentioned the tribe of Joseph and the tribe of Levi. There was never a tribe of Joseph, and the Levites were the priests in Israel, never a tribe. Dan and Ephraim are missing in the list. This shows it is referring to spiritual Israel.
      If you look at Revelation 14:1 you will see that "The Lamb" and the 144,000 are standing upon the Mount Zion, having his name and the name of his father written upon their foreheads. The Lamb is referring to Jesus Christ.
      (John 1:29) as mentioned by John the Baptist "See the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world."
      Where was Jesus after his resurrection? He was raised up as a spirit being to return to the heavenly life he had before he was transferred into an embryo in Mary´s womb. (See John 17:5, Colossians 1:15-20, Proverbs 8:22-31-all speak of Jesus´s pre-human existence in heaven)
      So if Jesus was raised to heavenly life as the Lamb of God, then the 144,000 who are standing with him are also in heaven, standing upon the heavenly Mount Zion.
      What will they do there? Jesus taught us to pray "Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven."
      The Kingdom means a Government with a King. God´s Government, with Jesus as the enthroned King. Revelation 5:10 and Revelation 20:6 show that these who have the first resurrection to heavenly life (the 144,000) will be Priests of God and of the Christ and will rule with him (as Kings) for the 1,000 years.
      Who do they rule over?
      They must rule over someone, or there would be no purpose in have a heavenly government without earthly subjects. Also for the prayer that Jesus taught to be fulfilled: "Thy will be done on EARTH as it is in Heaven"
      Please look to Revelation 7:9-10, where the Apostle John says: "After these  things I saw, and, look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before teh Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands.(10) And they keep on crying out with a loud voice, saying: "Salvation (we owe) to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb."
      Note please that the number of the 144,000 were sealed. Therefore it is a sealed number. On the other hand, note please that the great crowd who were saved were not able to be numbered, therefore an unlimited number of persons from every tribe and nation may be saved.
      That is why God sent his only begotton Son, Jesus, to die for us and take away sins. It would be contrary to God´s Love to want to limit the number of persons being saved. (only the number of the Government which will restore mankind is limited, not the number of the subjects it rules over!)
      Why does it say in John 3:16 "For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life."
      The way is open for everyone to exercise faith in God, and put faith in his Son´s shed blood, repenting of our sins and being cleansed.
      Those in Revelation 7:9 were explained in Rev.7:13 as being those who have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
      Literally to dip a white robe into blood would turn it red.
      Therefore, symbolically, these ones are in a cleansed condition, having cleaned up their lives and cleansed themselves through Jesus´s shed blood. They have to remain clean, (keep their white garments) in order to be saved.
      Where will the Great Crowd live?
      Please read Psalms 37, whole chapter.
      You will see that the righteous will inherit the earth, and will dwell there forever. But the wicked will be cut off from the earth.
      Isaiah 65:17-25 speaks about a new (cleansed) heavens and a new (cleansed) earth. As explained in Psalms 37, God will cleanse the earth by removing the wicked. Just as we clean our garments when they are dirty.
      We don´t destroy them, or throw them away. After a dry-clean, or a wash they are as good as "new" just as the heavens will have a new government and the earth will be cleansed and as good as new.
      Isaiah 65 says that these ones will certainly build houses, and plant vineyards. Even the children they will bear will not be brought to birth for disturbance. So the earth will be filled with peaceful righteous people from all tribes and nations who will be brought back to perfection, by Jesus heavenly government of 144,000 Kings and Priests. Kings for our Physical/Material welfare, and Priests for our spiritual welfare.
      I hope this has answered your question.
      My greetings from Bea.

      1. profile image55
        haj3396posted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Great Job but we are Israel and the tribe of Dan and Ephraim, was replace by the tribe of Joseph and Benjamin. There, are 4 kinds of people on this earth. The righteous Living, and the Righteous dead, the wick living and the wick dead. At Jesus second coming all the wick will be killed. (2 Thessalonians 2-8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: ) Now, all the wicked is dead and all the righteous is gone with christ, who's left. 1 thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

        17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

        18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. Only the devil and his anger

      2. Joy56 profile image60
        Joy56posted 7 years agoin reply to this

        hi what religion is that from Bear77

        1. profile image55
          haj3396posted 7 years agoin reply to this

          The king James Bible, sister put your trust in God not man, God really love you, and I do to.

      3. marcofratelli profile image72
        marcofratelliposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        I'm impressed.
        Agree, the 144,000 will be those counted in the "first" resurrection, the army of Heaven, and will rule with Christ on Earth as his government throughout the world.

    8. Joy56 profile image60
      Joy56posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      i thought it was a 144.000 in heaven and a number of people too many to count on earth

      1. profile image49
        Bea77posted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Hello Joy56,  These are the teachings of the Bible. Followed closely by Jehovah´s Witnesses. Yes, you are correct, the 144,000 are the Kings and Priests that will reign with Christ Jesus for the 1000 years to bring peace to this earth, and the number of those who will be the subjects on earth are a Great Crowd which no man can number. Meaning that it is God´s will for people out of every tribe and nation to be saved, and be the ones who inherit the earth. As Jesus promised "The meek shall inherit the earth."
        Psalms 37:27-29 "And just a little while longer and the wicked one will be no more, and you will certainly give attention to his place and he will not be. But the righteous themselves will inherit the earth, and they will reside forever upon it."
        Knowing all scriptures from Genesis to Revelation, and understanding exactly what Jesus spoke about in the Lord´s prayer which Jesus taught us to pray, gives us a better understanding of God´s everlasting purpose for this earth.
        Ask yourself the following: When God placed the first human pair in the garden of Eden, and they turned disobedient. Just a short while later, he provided the ransom sacrifice of Christ Jesus, to redeem mankind from sin and death. John 3:16 "For God loved the world so much, that he gave his only begotton son, that everyone exercising faith in him, might not be destroyed, but have everlasting life." According to Jesus Christ, this would be on earth for the majority. There is a little flock of 144,000 to rule with him, and logically, subjects over whom they rule, called the "Other Sheep".  So that this prayer may be fulfilled: "Thy will be done on earth."
        Otherwise, Jesus would have taught us this prayer in vain, and his Ransom sacrifice would also have been in vain. As his blood is to redeem mankind from sin and death, so that God´s everlasting purpose for this earth to be filled with righteous humans who enjoy life eternally in peace and happiness, might be realized.

      2. profile image55
        haj3396posted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Remember there are two kind of righteous, the living and the died. at Jesus Coming there will be only 144,000 righteous on this earth, But the dead will be a number that no man can number.

        1. profile image49
          Bea77posted 7 years agoin reply to this

          There are 3 kinds of righteous ones who are saved.
          Let us read the words again in our Bibles:

          1) The 144,000 who die and are then raised to heavenly life to rule with Christ Jesus for 1000 years over the earth as Kings and restore mankind spiritually as Priests. (Rev. 5:5-10, Rev 7:4-9, Rev. 14:1-3, Rev. 6:20)

          Rev.5:5"But one of the elders says to me:"Stop weeping. Look! The Lion that is of the tribe of Judah, the root of David, has conquered so as to open the scroll and its seven seals."

          Rev.5:9-10: "(9) And they sing a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, because you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, (10) and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, an they are to rule as kings over the earth."

          John 18:36: "My Kingdom is no part of this world"

          Rev.1:5-6: (5) "and from Jesus Christ, "the Faithful Witness," "The firstborn from the dead," and the Ruler of the kings of the earth."
          To him that loves us and that loosed us from our sins by means of his own blood- (6) and he made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father--yes, to him be the glory and the might forever. Amen.

          ******************************************************************************
          2) The great crowd of righteous earthly survivors out of all tribes and nations, presently living on this earth who will survive the Great Tribulation because they have cleansed themselves by Christ´s shed blood AND they endure faithfully until the end of this system of things.
          These will survive to live in the earthly paradise.  (Rev. 7:9-17, Matt.24:13, Rev.2:7)

          Rev. 2:7 Let the one who has an ear hear what the spirit says to the congregations: To him that conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

          Rev.7:9,10,13,14: (9) After these things I saw, and, look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands.
          (10) And they keep on crying with a loud voice, saying: "Salvation (we owe) to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb."
          (13) And in response one of the elders said to me: "These who are dressed in the white robes, who are they and where did they come from?"
          (14) So right away I said to him: "My lord, you are the one that knows" And he said to me: "These are the ones that come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and mad them white in the blood of the Lamb.

          (17) because the Lamb, who is in the midst of the throne, will shepherd them, and will guide them to fountains of waters of life. And God will wipe out every tear from their eyes."

          *******************************************************************************
          3) All those in the memorial tombs who have died and practiced good things will be raised back to life on earth: John 5:28-29

          John 5:28-29: (28) Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice  (29) and come out, those who did good things to  a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.

          1. earnestshub profile image87
            earnestshubposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            Nah! The worms got there first. smile

            1. profile image49
              Bea77posted 7 years agoin reply to this

              You have a wonderful sense of humbug brother! oops I mean humour!

    9. 7thangel@seventh profile image57
      7thangel@seventhposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      144,000 = a given year. it is symbolic for all Israel (everyone who believes in the Savior) those who understand in fullness to the glory of His Name and persevere in righteousness to the end. There will be A LOT more than 144,000 saints, angels, holy ones, elect - all the same who will be saved through the end (we are not going anywhere, but up the mountains) when the Lord comes. here is the trick of the Coming that is like a THIEF in the night = it will not be a day to look forward to....unless you are ready in heart, mind, strength and soul....somewhere high up away from the sea....

      The Last Word, The Final Say....God Bless

      1. profile image49
        Bea77posted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Logical scriptural backing is needed from God´s Holy word the Bible. In fact the scriptural principle applies "At the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses every matter should be established."
        You need to understand God´s eternal original purpose for this earth.
        He created this earth not simply for nothing, but for it to be inhabited.
        Angels, Cherubs and Seraphim were created as heavenly creatures to serve God in heaven. Until mankind´s sin in Eden, there was no point in time where God intended for humans to inhabit the heavens.
        "Become fruitful and multiply and fill the earth." were his words in Genesis to the first human pair. Due to their sin of disobedience, they were punished with death. "For dust you are and to dust you will return" Note it did not say heaven, or life, or live somewhere after death.
        No, death was a punishment for sin. That is why the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ became necessary, and a Kingdom Government of 144,001
        ....Who is the 1 you may ask, well this is referring to the King, Christ Jesus himself. His sacrifice as the "Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world" as John the Baptist stated at the baptism of Jesus, helps us understand the scripture in Revelation 14:1 where the Lamb was pictured as standing on the heavenly mount Zion with the 144,000.  Whose name was written upon their foreheads? It mentions his name: Jesus, and his father´s name: Jehovah. These 144,000 are loyal worshipers of almighty God whose name is Jehovah.
        Identifying them as also as beings followers of Jesus Christ.
        Turning to Isaiah 9:6-7 we understand more about the rulership of Jesus Christ. For here it explains "There has been a son born to us and a child given to us, and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder, and his name will be called wonderful counselor, mighty god, eternal father, prince of peace. For the abundance of the princely rule there will be no end, upon the throne of David and upon his Kingdom, in order to establish it by means of justice and by means of righteousness, from now on and to time indefinite."
        Let us reflect on the qualities that Christ Jesus has and the kind of rulership, or kingship he will establish.: Wonderful counselor... that is something we need in a Government, for the benefit of its subjects. As a
        Mighty god, he will bring blessings to his subjects. Eternal father: By means of his shed blood, all humans have the opportunity to become his children, being brought back to the real everlasting life, having Christ´s shed blood redeem us all from sin and death, thereby Christ becomes our eternal father. Prince of Peace: Yes we can be assured that his rulership will be a peaceful one, with all causes of disturbance removed from this earth, with no end of peace. Also mentioned are the qualities of justice and righteousness, which ensure that things will be fair and just on this earth, and only righteous ones will be the subjects of his Government, having their robes or lives cleansed by his shed blood.
        A marvellous future awaits all mankind who exercise faith in God, and his son Jesus and who take in accurate knowledge of him and do God´s will now, and remain in God´s love until the end of this system of things, "For he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved." Matt.24:13;. John 17:3

      2. profile image55
        haj3396posted 7 years agoin reply to this

        That's a good thought but it's not Biblical. The Bible talk about two class of righteous people and it tells you how any will be save from each tribe, then it tell you of a number that man can not number. Look at Rev 7-
        1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

        2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

        3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

        4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: [and there were] sealed an hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

        5 Of the tribe of Juda [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad [were] sealed twelve thousand.

        6 Of the tribe of Aser [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses [were] sealed twelve thousand.

        7 Of the tribe of Simeon [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar [were] sealed twelve thousand.

        8 Of the tribe of Zabulon [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin [were] sealed twelve thousand.

        9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

  2. thirdmillenium profile image60
    thirdmilleniumposted 7 years ago

    This is one of the 1000s of misinterpretation of  the Bible's verses.

    This does not mean the others will not be anywhere near God.

    Everybody will be there and NOBODY will go to hell. There is NO  place like hell, my friends.

    1. Daniel Carter profile image79
      Daniel Carterposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I think I first heard this line from the Wizard of Oz:

      "There's no place like hell. There's no place like hell..."

      And Dorothy clicked her heels three times as she said it.

      (It's a joke.)

    2. profile image55
      haj3396posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Hell is the grave

    3. profile image55
      haj3396posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Hell is the grave, the Bible is clear, look and see, Act 2-26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:

      27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. this is talking about Jesus Christ in the grave not in a place of burning. Notice what Rev 20;14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

  3. kess profile image61
    kessposted 7 years ago

    144000 are the first fruits of the earth......
    ....meaning there are more fruits much more.

    1. profile image55
      haj3396posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      First fruits are thought who rose with Jesus on Sunday Morning. Matt 27-52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

      53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

      1. profile image0
        Twenty One Daysposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Correct, the 1st resurrection.
        It is also noted in the Revealing of Y`shua Moshiach aka (Revelation 20.6) this event is directly spoken of. Preceding this is the exclamation of salvation has come! Immediately following is seen the new temple where Creator dwells again with man.

        So, that ends the book. Does salvation end there? No, according to it, salvation just begins there. AFTER you finish reading the book, close it and dwell where the Creator is.

        Just a thought.

    2. profile image49
      Bea77posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      You are quite right Kess, otherwise there would be no need to mention first fruits, if there were none to follow.
      The first fruits are the 144,000 to be raised to heavenly life. For the purpose of ruling as kings and priests over mankind on earth. Revelation 20:6
      The second fruits, or second resurrection is referring to the earthly resurrection of those who will inherit the earth. Psalms 37:27-29
      John 5:28-29.

      1. profile image55
        haj3396posted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Sound good but the order is not on point, the 144,000 never see death. First fruits are thought who rose with Jesus on Sunday Morning. Matt 27-52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

        53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. second fruits is all of us that will go to heaven to live with God a 1000 years , before, we come back to earth.

  4. Tusitala Tom profile image64
    Tusitala Tomposted 7 years ago

    I don't know too much about the 144,000.  Do have to at least partially agree with Earnest Hub that people can quote from Holy books to suit their own ends.   I've seen it done ad neuseum.

    Years ago, whilst in the Royal Australian Navy as a radio telegraphist (all Morse Code in those days) I was privvy to radio messages sent between two ship's captains: the ship I was on and one we regularly worked with.   These two ship's skippers used to try to outdo one another by sending messages to each other by just referring to chapters and verses in the Christian Holdy Bible.   It was apparent that these two quite ordinary - and probablly irreligious men - were able to make just about any message they liked out of 'The Good Book.'  So if they could do it, you can well imagine that someone with a rely serious vested interest can undoubtedly do the same.

    1. thirdmillenium profile image60
      thirdmilleniumposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Since I was in navy too, here goes a another gem about navy. Courtesy: Reader's Digest (nothing to do with the topic at hand but what the hell......)

      The ship's captain wanted his washerwoman to  come on board to wash his things. Message by Morse code was to be sent : "Send captain's washer woman on board". The radio telegraphist left the word woman while transmitting.  And made amends later: the correction message read:

      Insert washer between captain and woman

      1. earnestshub profile image87
        earnestshubposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        lol lol lol

    2. profile image55
      haj3396posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      And people can not believe until it's to late.

    3. profile image55
      haj3396posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      This is a great statement, but God is a God of order, and that's what this group need is order. One day I ask  God to show me order from his word, and he showed me Ps 77-13 Thy way, O God, [is] in the sanctuary: who [is so] great a God as [our] God? Therefore, the movement of the priest is the movement of Jesus Christ. therefore, if you want to know what Jesus was doing is the past, Look into the Sanctuary, if you want to see what Jesus is doing in the Present, look into the Sanctuary, if you want to see want Jesus will be doing in the future look into the Sanctuary. The only order of the Bible.

  5. wilmiers77 profile image61
    wilmiers77posted 7 years ago

    This is literal. God says there will not be less than 144,000 faithful believers who can not be deceived by false prophets. Take a count every years and you will not ever count 143,999 faithful believers.

    1. profile image55
      haj3396posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      We want be totally faithful until we are seal, I hope and pray that I done be out side of God when he make this saying, let the just be just still.

    2. profile image55
      haj3396posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      A prophet of God make that statement to God and said unto him "I have a thousand that have not given in to sin." You see through man eyes, but, God see the truth.

  6. profile image65
    logic,commonsenseposted 7 years ago

    Do I need to take off my shoes and socks?

    1. profile image55
      haj3396posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Only if you do not believe in God.

  7. Pearldiver profile image82
    Pearldiverposted 7 years ago

    What a buggar!

    He's changed his mind... they're all going to be chosen from the Catholic denomination only!  yikes

    So the JWs will have to build their own boat lol

    So you've been dreaming OP... best you get a refund on your tythe smile

    1. profile image55
      haj3396posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Not really the JW and the Catholic, the baptist, the church of Jesus Christ, the non-Denominations are all in the same boat and any church that worship on Sunday

  8. michaelmalyon profile image67
    michaelmalyonposted 7 years ago

    Dear friends. All the symboles used in the new testament are explained in the old. 2 Peter 1.20-21 warns against personal interpretations of prophecy. It came about through God. Only He can help you understand it. Pray for His guidence and search His word. Every word in revelation is explained in the old testament. Send me an email if you need or want help

    1. profile image55
      haj3396posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Friend, it's this way, the Old testament is the New Testament concealed and the New Testament is the Old Testament reveal. The old testament said Jesus would come in the new testament Jesus came. email if you need or want help.

  9. profile image62
    paarsurreyposted 7 years ago

    Hi friends

    While quoting please give book number, chapter number and the verse number.

    Thanks

    I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

  10. earnestshub profile image87
    earnestshubposted 7 years ago

    Sh*t cried the king! And fifty thousand a*seholes flashed in the moonlight!
    Of course this was in the days when the king's word was law! smile

  11. Huey19 profile image72
    Huey19posted 7 years ago

    I studied with Jehovah's Witnesses for some time and 144,000 is the number of individuals that will govern God's New Kingdom from Heaven.  This does not mean everyone else dies.  As you may know there will be a judgement day and those that make it through that aside of the 144,000 will live forever in the New Kingdom which includes a Paradise Earth or if you will a Garden of Eden for the entire Earth.  That's what I learned at least.  It is in the Bible i believe. Good luck with your answers.

    1. Joy56 profile image60
      Joy56posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      i agree with this.... perfect answer

    2. profile image49
      Bea77posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      The thousand year reign of Christ is the judgement day. All those who survive God´s war of Armageddon near at hand will be judged according to what they do during the 1000 years of peace. The resurrected ones will have paid for their former sins by means of their death. They too will have a 1000 years of peace to learn righteousness. All will be judged by the new scrolls which will be opened by Christ Jesus. Satan will be abyssed with his wicked demon angels for the 1000 years, so that peace may reign on earth.
      At the end of the 1000 years he will be let loose, to test all perfect mankind.
      Then Satan and his wicked angels will be destroyed forever. See Revelation

      1. Joy56 profile image60
        Joy56posted 7 years agoin reply to this

        you sure do know your stuff Bea77.... did you go to k.h. today

        1. profile image49
          Bea77posted 7 years agoin reply to this

          Hi Joy! I will write to you personally if you wish!
          smile Bea

          1. Joy56 profile image60
            Joy56posted 7 years agoin reply to this

            o.k. no problem, you can send an e. mail via here.

      2. Jerami profile image73
        Jeramiposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        It is written that Christ reigns for ever ...
        What is this 1000 year reign of Christ all about???

        This is the first hint of this concept being flawed.

        Rev. 20 indicates that Satan is bound in the pit for 1000 years.
        The first ressurection happens at thas time. 
        The souls of those that were KILLED for their testamony of Christ and the father and did not take the mark of the beast are seen in heaven ..  WHERE "THEY" REIGN WITH CHRIST .. where he is.
           I do not think that the ressurection is speaking of being ressurected back to this earthly realm???

           I believe that Rev 14 is speaking of events just before the first rescurection because 14:13 says that from this day forward anyone that dies in the Lord shall rest from their labors and their works do follow them.   The word that follows (in this instance) was always reffering to following Christ to where he was going.
         
          Rev 16, 18, and 20 are all three talking about the same battle!!

        1. profile image49
          Bea77posted 7 years agoin reply to this

          Hi Jerami,
          to help us understand the 1000 year reign of Christ Jesus, we need to understand its purpose.
          Firstly, to restore mankind back to perfection in every aspect. spritually, intellectually, emotionally, and physically.
          And secondly to restore this earth to its complete, perfect, harmonious original paradise-like state. With the ecological balance of this planet restored. Along with harmony between humans and nature.
          Perfect nutrition for all of us assured, with plenty of wonderful things to do and learn. Using our brain power fully for the purpose of good! (Scientists state that we use only 1% of our brain power presently!) Imagine what we could accomplish to benefit one another, if our full perfect capacity and health of mind and body is restored to us!!
          When Christ`s Kingdom of 1000 years has accomplished this, and after the final test where Satan and his demon angels will be let loose from the Abyss to test perfect mankind`s obedience, then Satan and his demons will be destroyed forever, along with those who follow them.
          When this point has been reached, and the last enemy "death" is brought to nothing, it is stated that Jesus Christ will hand over the Kingdom to his father. See 1.Corinthians 15:24-28. This does not mean that his Kingdom will have an end, because it is an everlasting Kingdom. And we can be assured that he will always be the Prince of Peace. It just helps us to see, that God will take over his rightful rule of this earth when Christs intercessory restoration of this earth, and mankind´s perfect relationship with their creator is restored.
          Therefore, those who will rule with Christ in the heavenly government to rule as Kings and Priests to restore mankind and restore this earth will have the first resurrection: Please see Rev.20:6 "Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority. But they will be Priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for a thousand years." Let us be logical here. Why does the apostle John need to mention a "first" resurrection, if there was only one resurrection? Also, what would be the purpose of a government with Kings and Priests if they had no subjects over whom they would rule?
          Here are some scriptures for you to check: Psalms 37:27-40, Isaiah 65:17-25, and  Psalms 72:8  "And he will have subjects from sea to sea and from the River to the ends of the earth."
          Why did Jesus and his disciples peform numerous earthly resurrections, back to life as a human. e.g. Lazarus (John 11:17-45), Jairus daughter (Mark 5:35-42), Eutychus (Acts 20:7-12), Dorcas, The son of a Widow from Nain. Why did Jesus heal the sick and restore sight to the blind?
          These were all foretastes of what he will do for all the "mild tempered" ones who will inherit the earth.(Matthew 5:5)
          Please take time to research these scriptures thoroughly.
          You may contact me for a free home Bible Study if you wish.
          Greetings from Bea.

      3. Huey19 profile image72
        Huey19posted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Bea77 is completely correct, that's what i know as well.

        1. Joy56 profile image60
          Joy56posted 7 years agoin reply to this

          hi so you are a j.w. too are you

    3. profile image55
      haj3396posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      That true in the Jehovah's Witnesses publications but, our authority come from the Bible. Not from men interpretation. Now go to the Bible and show this your statement.

  12. Jerami profile image73
    Jeramiposted 7 years ago

    I wish I knew why everybody has got to add something to what they read in scripture?   

       Can it not mean exactly what it says?
       No more than what it says
            AND
      No less than what it says?

    1. Mark Knowles profile image60
      Mark Knowlesposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Apparently not - according to you, Jerami. Wot Gabriel sed innit?



      Hmmmmm, Can it not mean exactly what it says? I wish I knew why everybody has got to add something to what they read in scripture.

      But - then I do know. wink

      1. Jerami profile image73
        Jeramiposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        I don't understand the point that you want to make in this last comment.

    2. profile image55
      haj3396posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Notice what Jesus said. Acts 4: 10 And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable.

      11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all [these] things are done in parables:

  13. 7thangel@seventh profile image57
    7thangel@seventhposted 7 years ago

    144,000 is a given date hidden in the foolishness of man. God did not go through all that He went through for 144,000 nor was He going to hand down His secrets of Truth to the blind and dumb who have been wrong in foretelling His forth coming thus far. there is 1000 times more good people today on top of that number, even more. I dont think Cheyne is one of them. lol

    but A 4 year old of every good family poor or rich can can sense that out. God Bless

    1. profile image55
      haj3396posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      out of the whole world only 8 people was save the last time the earth was destroyed, there was other righteous people but they died right before the flood. Why is it so hard for you to believe that when he come there will be only 144,000 living people save, there, will be billion dead people saved.

  14. Jerami profile image73
    Jeramiposted 7 years ago

    raprure  ressueection  1st and second are described trom a farmers perspective.

       A farmer of apples, cucumbers, cherries, and even cotton will;; as soon as possible pick the first fruits of his crop to take to the wholesaler to have it graded, He takes the biggest and best as an example of what to expect.

      He than harvests the field. (first ressurection)

      When the very last fruit is ripe he then conducts a second harvest.
      The 144000 Redeamed from among man was a literal number. The most select, bestest of the best.
    The first ressurection was the most plentiful of a harvest than the second ressurection will be.
      And then the fields are plowded in preperation for next years planting.

    1. profile image55
      exorterposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I like that

  15. profile image0
    Twenty One Daysposted 7 years ago

    Funny info:
    The Mayan calendar (baktun) has 144,000 days in its cycle.
    There were supposedly 144,000 prophets of Islam.
    The Judeo-Christian belief is they are 144,000 of the First Resurrection.

    1. profile image55
      haj3396posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      The Bible is the only book that clam to get it's inspiration from God. No other religion clam that.

  16. aguasilver profile image81
    aguasilverposted 7 years ago

    Gross.... or rather twelve gross.... opps..... 12 tribes..... OH what the matter!

    John ;0)

    1. profile image55
      haj3396posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      The reason it matter, because we need to be look at self to make sure we are ready. Help yourself be ye ready

  17. Jerami profile image73
    Jeramiposted 7 years ago

    I never understand why people have to interpret scripture to mean something other that what it says and then swear by it  ????

    1. pjk_artist profile image62
      pjk_artistposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      The whole point of scripture is to find the inner divine lesson the original author was trying to impart.  Once you've studied the symbology you'll discover the truth about God Jesus and man...and you'll f'n swear by it!

      1. Jerami profile image73
        Jeramiposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Just my opinion, but I think that the simple truth is on the surface. There is Many intricate details  that lie under the surface,layered as is an onion. Nothing changes as we peal off the layers.  It just gets richer with each level.

    2. profile image55
      haj3396posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Show me some other than the word of God to believe in and it do for me what the Bible have done for me and I will believe in it.

  18. pjk_artist profile image62
    pjk_artistposted 7 years ago

    “Christ Unveiled.” That is quite a tall order, for we are told in Mark 13:21: “If anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is Christ!’ or ‘Look, there he is!’ do not believe it.” And I will endorse that one hundred percent. Listen to it carefully and see the pronoun used in that sentence. “Here he is, believe him not.” So, here, who is Christ? What is Christ? Where is Christ? Paul found him and, having found him, he
    said: “From now on we regard no one from a human point of view even though we once regarded Christ froma human point of view, we regard him thus no longer.” (1 Cor. 5:16) He regards him not, from now on, as man. He thought he was man and went out to destroy those who believed in Christ as a man.
    Then we are told in I Peter 1:10,11: “The prophets who prophesied of the grace that was to be yours searched and inquired about this salvation; they inquired what person or time was indicated by the Spirit of Christ within them when  predicting the sufferings of Christ and the subsequent glory.” They thought they were looking for a person, or time, and they wondered whether he would come. There was no reply to that, save
    “It was revealed to them they were serving not themselves but you” (v. 12)What is Christ? I tell you Christ is “The Way” of salvation. Christ is “The Way” to the Father.
    Now we will turn back to the Gospels where we have these events together, for Scripture, as we understand it, says the New Testament is based on the affirmation that a certain series of events happened in which God revealed himself in action for the salvation of man. Did they happen? I tell you from experience, they happened. Not only they happened, but are happening. They are taking place every moment of time in our world. If you have not experienced these events may I tell you: you are going to. Not a thing in this world that you will ever do will stop it. God will not fail - not in one being in this world. Here we are told the events were assembled and Luke, in his first four verses, makes the statement: “Inasmuch as many have undertaken
    to compile a narrative of the things which have been  accomplished among us, just as they were delivered to
    us by those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word, it seemed good to me also, having followed all things for some time past, to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, that you may know the truth concerning the things of which you have been informed.” So, here we have the oral tradition. They all talked about it. These things happened and they are telling it, but come the moment in time that many undertook to put it into written form and he thought it wise to do the same thing. And so he said: “Having observed all things closely for sometime past.” He thought he, too, would put it in written form
    for one he called Theophilus - meaning “one who loves God.” He is speaking to you. You love God, I love God. He is the source of everything - the source of our life and the end of all things. And, so, he is addressing his remarks to you - O dear Theophilus - that you may know the truth concerning the things of which you have been informed.
    And so, we heard it orally. I did as a child, but when I began to read and write I could read it for myself, but did not understand it. Before I could read it, mother taught it to me and I was sent to school and it was taught to me in school. Then I was sent to Sunday school and I heard the story told by the teacher. And, so, we heard it orally. Then came the moment in time we could read it for ourselves. Then came this closed book.
    Now, let us see if we can unveil Christ tonight. In Matthew 16:13, one called Christ Jesus turns to his disciples and asked this question: “Who do men say that the Son of man is?” And they replied, “Some say John the Baptist, others say Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” Then he said to them: “But who do you say that I am?” Right away that second question identifies it with the son of man. The first question is: “But who do you say that I am?” So he is asking the question about the Son of Man. Then he is asking about himself. “But who do you say that I am?” He identifies himself with the Son of Man. And Peter replied: “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” And to this he answered: “Blessed are you, Simon bar Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.” He confesses that no flesh and blood could have told it, it has to come by revelation. Where do we find this flesh and blood revelation? In Galatians 1:16, 17. “When it pleased God to reveal His son in me, I conferred not with flesh
    and blood.” That, mortal mind could not reveal, no matter how it rationalized or tried to unravel this mystery.
    It cannot, it has to be revealed - it has to be completely unfolded, in the individual. So, he said: “I am the Son
    of man.” Now, we go back in the Old Testament to find this cue. Where did God promise this? We turn to 2 Samuel, 7th Chapter. This is a vision. We are told between the 8th and 17th verses, that Nathan received a vision, and “according to all these words and according to all this vision, Nathan spoke to David.” This is what he told David: “And the Lord said unto me - the Lord of Hosts O go to my servant David and say to David, ‘When your days are fulfilled and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your son after you, who shall come forth from your body, and I will be his father, and he shall be my son.’” Here, we have to now spiritualize the vision of David. Here is David, a man. If “I will raise up your son after you,” then he is David’s
    son. I cannot deny it. “I will raise up your son after you who will come forth from your body.” “I will (now the Lord is speaking) be his father and he shall be my son.” If he is the son of David then he is the Son of man. If, on the other hand, the Lord adopts him, “He shall be my son,” then he is the Son of God. So, in this case, who do men say the Son of man is? And they all thought of all kinds of things. He said then: “Who do you say I am?” “You are Christ, the Son of God.” Now right away you think in terms “You are Christ, the Son of God” and yet - the Son of man, you think of a man. And it is not so at all.
    Here is a man as you are - male or female - walking the earth. You have heard the story orally, but when you began to read you could read it for yourself, but you did not understand it. You are playing your normal part in this world and one day when you least expect it - in fact, you never expect it - you thought it happened 2,000 years ago to one person and that was it - well, you are that person. It is happening to you. You go through the entire series of events as recorded in Scripture, and then you know [who] Christ is. Christ is “The Way” to the Father - and there is no other Way. “I am the Way.” To what? To everything in this world! But especially to the Father. “I am the Way. No one comes unto the Father but by me,” as told in the 14th
    [chapter] of John. But no one comes unto the Father but by me.” So, here is the Way. What is the Way?
    Then you search the Scripture and find the Way, and the Way you do not determine - it was in the beginning.
    Listen to the statement carefully, in Paul’s Letter to the Colossians (1:15-17): “He is the image of the invisible
    God, the first-born of all creation; for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities - all things were created through him for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.”
    “He is the image of the invisible God - the first born of all creation.” Now where is this said in the Old Testament? Because the New is only the fulfillment. The whole is in the Old and the New is fulfillment. You will find it in Proverbs 8:22, 23: “The Lord created me at the beginning of his work, the first of his acts of old.
    Ages ago I was set up, at the first, before the beginning of the earth . . . when he marked out the foundations of the earth, then I was beside him like a little child.” (v. 29) Here is God’s way of salvation. But God’s way in Scripture is always personified. Every attribute of man’s mind, which is God’s mind, is always personified.
    If it is wealth, you see wealth as a man. If it is power, you see power as a man. When you meet Infinite Might - it is a man. All the attributes of mind are always personified, for God is man and man is God. So He personifies this Way - the Way that was in the beginning. This is not improvised. Before God brought the whole vast world into being, he plotted and planned a way of redemption for all of us. This is not an afterthought of God. It came first. “I am the first of his acts of old,” before he brought forth the world - the universe, anything - he planned a Way, and the Way was to God, personified as a little child. “And I was daily his delight, rejoicing before him always, rejoicing in his inhabited world and delighting in the sons of man.” (Proverbs 8:30, 31) Now listen carefully: “He who finds me finds life and obtains favor from the Lord; but he who misses me
    injures himself; all who hate me love death.” (Prov. 8:35, 36)Where is it in the New Testament - the second part of what we just quoted? The very first words uttered by Jesus recorded in Scripture you will find in the last few verses in Luke 2. It takes place in the synagogue - the temple - and his parents said to him: “Son, why have you treated us so? Behold, your father and I have been looking for you anxiously.” And he replied:
    “How is it that you sought me? Did you not know that I must be in my Father’s house?” And they did not understand the saying which he spoke to them.” But, the mother kept these things in her heart, and then Jesus grew in years, in wisdom, and in the favor of the Lord. The first recorded utterance of Jesus in Scripture when he was only a lad, a child: “Did you not know that I must be in my Father’s house?” He said heaven is
    the throne of God and heaven is within you. Where would you find him? You are asking me? Where would you seek me? They sought him elsewhere, but they could not find him until they found him in the father’s house - for you are the temple of the living God. It is called synagogue, outwardly. You are the synagogue,
    but you are the temple of the living God. I will not find the way until I find him myself. And find him without searching for him. One day when it pleases God - for it comes with the fullness of time and he sees in me the ripeness he is looking for - then he unfolds me by this series of events, in his home.
    First the birth, then the discovery of his son, and then the splitting of the temple. And I am taken into his home - and his home is within. Just as described in the 13th Chapter of Mark, there is the most frightening earthquake when you are taken into his home, and you are the cause of it. When you move up and move into that heavenly state within you, there is a vibration you have never experienced before. The whole vast world within you begins to shake because you have been redeemed. You are brought in and there is joy beyond the wildest dream you could ever conceive, because one more has been brought into the temple, into the house of God.
    It is true as I have told you. So Christ is the Way, the Way of redemption, and the Way is man. “The Lord created me at the beginning of His Way, the first of his acts of old.” Before he brought forth the stars or anything, he created a way of return to himself, and that way is called Christ in the Bible. And the people sought him and the prophets inquired as to what person, and to this day, in 1963, they are still looking for a person. You will see it in the papers - they are always looking for some person coming into the world that will be Christ and they are so eager to find a Christ on the outside. They thought they found one in Hitler, or in Stalin, or someone else - always a savior of the world. But, as quoted earlier from Mark 13:21: “And then if anyone says to you, ‘Look here is the Christ!’ or ‘Look, there he is!’ do not believe it.” You will never find him in another. In no being in this world will you find him. You either find him in yourself as the Way that leads you to God, or you will not find him. But you will find him- everyone will find him. And when they find him, they find him as a “Way.” He said: “I am the Way, I am the Truth, I am the Life; I am the Resurrection; I am the Door.” There is no other door. You cannot get through it in any other way, and this is the Way of the
    Father. The Way is inwoven in every child in this world and that child will find the way when God is ready for him, for only God knows that moment in eternity when he will awaken that child.
    Now, why are we called in 2 Samuel 7: “Those who sleep with the Fathers?” Here we are three billion in the world today, and “When your days are fulfilled and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your son after you, who shall come forth from your body, and I will establish his kingdom.” And you think those were the fathers. May I tell you: you are the fathers. You have already fulfilled your day in preparation, and now you are sleeping with the fathers. You are sound asleep, but you don’t know it. You came here tonight as a conscious being and you will go home tonight - drive your cars or get off the bus at the right points, you will go to bed fully conscious of the fact that this is when you are going to sleep and that prior to that you were awake. You did all these things conscious.
    I have observed my brother Bruce; from the time he was born he was a sleep walker. Bruce would come down stairs and go to the larder, unlock the larder for some milk and bread and jam. He would walk around naturally. We would do everything to make him fall on his neck, but he never did. He walked around the
    chairs or anything else in the room and then came back upstairs and went back to bed, totally unaware he had done anything unnatural, and the only person in the world who could convince him he did it was my mother. He would oppose us, but not mother. Not that she would have done anything violent, but he could
    not mistrust my mother. She was to us the ideal. She would not lie to us. So our brother Bruce trusted her, but he would rack his brain to find out why he did it. We put obstacles in his way but he would walk around them.
    That taught me a lesson in my mature years when I was awakened to find that I had been asleep all through the ages and I did not know it. All through the ages I have been sleeping - and how long are these ages? Paul tells us in his letter to the Colossians, “The mystery hidden for ages and generations . . . which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.” (Col. 1:26, 27) He tells us a mystery - the mystery - the mystery is Christ in us, the hope of glory. I did not understand it anymore than the world understands it, and one day it happened. And God, in his infinite mercy, looked upon me and found me ripe, and he woke me. I awoke for the first time in eternity, and I was sealed in a tomb, and the tomb was my skull. And God rolled away the stone and I came out. But until that moment I never thought for one moment I was asleep. Not only asleep, but the sleep was so deep, so profound, I was dead. For when I awoke I was in a tomb, and you do not put anyone in a tomb unless they are dead. So when you enter that tomb you are dead, and you are one with Christ, who died for you. He is the Way. Together you are completely sealed in a tomb. But you don’t know it. I did not know it.
    But I have never been more awake in eternity. When I saw things around about me and saw them all objectively, and they could not see me, I understood the words: “He is the image of the Invisible God.” How could you be the image of something invisible? But those are the words: “The image of the invisible God” - the first of all that was created. How could I actually reflect something invisible? It was true, you are the
    image of the invisible God and nothing that is mortal that looks at you can see you. You are more real than anything in the world. And the whole thing began to come back and I began to see the experiences I have come through and I wondered, for it puzzled me. Looking at you - looking at myself, bathing, shaving, taking care of the body, and it seemed so alive and so independent of any man’s perception of it. I could leave the
    room when I wanted to and do the things I wanted to do but at this moment in time I realized this is not so at all.
    When I awoke, I then realized an experience I had many years before. God was bringing me to that point of awakening. In one moment in time he took me into a world just like this and showed me a power that would be myself tomorrow. He allowed me to exercise it just for a moment and I saw people just like you. As I saw them, I arrested within myself a rhythm - an action. As I did it, the people I observed stood still - everything
    stood still. I wondered how it could be, but they could not move. But when I released the activity within me that I arrested, they all moved on and completed their intention. Then it broke. Then I understood what he meant: “As the Father has life within himself, so he has granted to the son to have life in himself.”
    So everyone is destined to have life within himself. Then you wonder about these garments and all these things round about us - this thing called Neville. What are all these things? Are these really costumes? Is something being formed in us that is the image of the Invisible God and we have to play these parts and wear these costumes for the moment? I have concluded that it is true - that, as Shakespeare says, the whole vast world is really a stage and all men are merely the players. And one man plays many parts in his time, and the being playing it all is God - individualizing himself and begetting himself, as told in 2 Samuel 7: “I will raise up your son after you, who shall come forth from your body. I will be his father and he shall be my son.” Out of this human body something is coming forward that is going to be called the Son of man, because it comes out of man. But it will be the Son of God, and it is the image of the Invisible God - something born in man and he brings him forward. And may I tell you: it is your own sense of I-ness. No loss of identity when you are awakened. None whatsoever. You will know me in eternity and I will know you. But for all the sameness of identity, we will know each other. But there is going to be a radical discontinuity of form- a radical discontinuity. You have no idea how beautiful you really are. Human face, yes. Human hands, yes. Human feet, yes. The human body - no. Not this body, not for one moment, but I cannot describe it to you. Not that I wouldn’t, if I could, but I can’t. If I made an attempt, it could only be radiant light, like a rainbow. Yet I would know you and you will know me, for there is a sameness of identity and human enough we can recognize each other. But the form - a radical discontinuity. You can display it and you know who
    you are, then you return to this - this garment, that you will one day put down forever, and this is essential.
    Before this came into being, God mapped out a way, and The Way was called Christ. No one understood who Christ was. They thought it was a man who would come and save the world. (People are always looking for a man that will come and save the world.) That man is you. You are David. He brings forward your son,
    but that is his son. Then you will understand the great opening statement of Matthew: “The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.” Then he brings up the question, “What think ye of the Christ; whose son is he?” The question is not complete until you listen to the past part - “son of David.” “Then why did David, in Spirit, call him father?” And you will see the Son of man is also the Son
    of God. But the Son of God and God are one. “I and my Father are one.” You get it? I and my Father are one, and yet I am the Son of man.
    This is man, and out of man comes a being that is God’s son. And then David - who played this fantastic part, which is now universal humanity - becomes the Son of man. You follow it? The Son of man is one with the Son of God. But that out of which the Son of man comes (who is the Son of God) in turn becomes the
    Son of man. You follow it? Son of man - Son of God - God. The Son of God and God are one, if the Son of God cannot deny the product of man.
    The question is asked in the 16th [chapter] of Matthew: “Who do men say the Son of man is?” Naturally, because He is the Son of man they have to think in terms of man, and they say: “Some say John the Baptist, others say Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” So they mention man. He does not quarrel
    with that. He changes it, now: “But who do you say that I am?” He is asking: “Who is I?” He tells you: “I am the son of man - but who am I?” They mention “the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Then he tells them; “Flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in Heaven.” Then he comes down to the foundation - who is the Son of man? The Son of God? God? It comes out David. That is the promise given to us.
    David is collective humanity, and out of David comes the Son of man and that Son of Man is the Son of God.
    When the Son of God awakes, he has to have a son, and it is David. Jesus never got beyond that age of 12 where he appears in the temple, and they ask: “Where were you? We have been looking all over for you. Why did you do this unto us? And He says: “Why did you seek me? You found me in my Father’s house. Why did you seek me elsewhere. You can’t find me, but if you find me you find life and receive the favor of the Lord.”
    When you find life, you will do to everyone in this world what it has been my privilege to do. In these moments I was taken, in the Spirit, and put into sections of humanity and stopped them. Then I released it, and they completed their action. And I stopped them again and they could go no further. A bird. A leaf. And then you ask fantastic questions in the depths of your soul. And you come to the conclusion that this whole
    vast world - everything in it - is a resultant state of God’s first creative act, and this was brought into being as a resultant state, and you are not these garments of flesh at all. Something is being formed in this garment of flesh. What is being formed? It is called the Son of man, but God calls it his Son, and his Son and himself are one. So God is begetting himself in man - his very own Self - and the day will come the individual will be able to say to himself; “He is not only begetting his Son, he begot his son in me, and I and my Father are one.” When you are awakened there is no other being but you and you, yourself, awake in yourself to discover you have been sound asleep and really dead for these unnumbered ages.
    So when he tells you in his Letter to the Colossians: “The mystery hidden for ages and generations . . . which is Christ in you, the hope of glory,” there is a way in man that leads him to glory. But man does not know it. He thinks he is completely awake and independent. I can go back 30 years ago and I would walk on Broadway, and it happened often. I was young and strong. Not a thing was wrong with me, and yet I would walk up Broadway and all of a sudden I knew someone was arresting me and I could not walk. And I would stop in the street and I could not put one foot in front of the other, but I did not understand it, and I would be released and walk on. Then it would happen again - on the sidewalk. I could not move, and I was fully alert and conscious, but I was still. And I know, now, someone was doing to me then what I, years later, was taken in Spirit to do to others. I was being trained and prepared to do the same thing to another that was done to me. I could not move. And yet, I was playing on Broadway. I had my vaudeville shows and played
    everything east of the Mississippi. I was a professional dancer and nothing was wrong with me and, yet, I could not move. I could feel something holding me - not embracing me - but something binding me. I stood paralyzed. And after a minute or so, whatever it was released me. I was used as the guinea pig by someone using this power within himself as I, years later, used it on others.
    So, “As the Father has life in Himself, so he grants the Son also to have life in himself,” and he is about to awaken that son and he knows it. We are being ripened - we must all conform to the image of the invisible God. When the image is coming into view, he introduces that being to the power that he will exercise
    tomorrow, so he takes him in spirit and shows him this fabulous world and he has control over it.
    What is the world? It is a stage, but you are not the garment you are wearing. But I will recognize you. There is a sameness of identity and we will know everyone in eternity. But there is a radical discontinuity of form. So, this body of ours - face, hands, feet - yes. But not the body. You are beautiful beyond your wildest dream!
    Now let us go into the silence.

    1. profile image55
      haj3396posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Tell all of what this scripture states, it says other that what you have heard from the word of God. All I have been giving is the word of God

  19. profile image0
    Justcallmeleroyposted 7 years ago

    12.000 from every tribe of Israel which there are 12 this will be the 144,000 from whom God will seal with His Name so that satan and none of his can harm them and thy will go about the earth Preaching Jesus Christ is Lord of Lords and every knee shall bow to His Holy Name.

    1. earnestshub profile image87
      earnestshubposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I don't think so mate! I don't dip me lid to no imaginary sky fairies! smile

 
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