I recntly took a trip back home to find my mom is losing her mind to demesia and my father at nearly 80 years old having to deal with her emotionaal/mental abuse of him. He will not put her in a home as he says"he will die before he does that".
I cry everyday for him. He has worked nearl 75 years to make our lives good.
How does this GOD yooooo pronounce to be so fabulous allow an 80 year old man still have to suffer. My answer...HE SUCKS AND ONLY WANTS EVERYONE TO SUFFER. If you believe YOU WILL SUFFER.
SO YOU BIBLE THUMPERS GO AHEAD AND GIVE ME SOME FKN INSITE...CUZ i VE BEEN CRYIN FOR DAYS AND THIS PERSON U WORSHIP CLEARLY SUCKS. HOW DO U MAKE AN 80 YEAR OLD HAVE TO ENDURE STILL WHAT HE HAS TO.....WILL HIS REWARD COME WHEN HE"S DEAD? THAT'S B.S.
YOU GO AHEAD AND MAKE ME CONTINUE TO BELIEVE IN THIS MASICIST YOU CALL GOD. WHAT A PIECE OF SHT HE IS.
funny that they havnt touched on this one. were all just matter knocking around and bumping into each other. I feel for you right now. i wish i could give you a big hug, and share a cup of tea with you. The only thing you can do right now is hold on. im so sorry, and wish i could help. im sending good thoughts your way. Be strong.
You can understand that kind God if what the Bible says is true: That he has created us at his own image.
If course I don't believe in any God. I think believer humans have created that God to their own image.
That's why He's so Limited !
Stimp, I am not sorry you are angry and glad you preferred to vent. Pain and anguish are tough subjects and even tougher emotions.
I will say this: (although I dislike the term) god is not to blame.
Who is? Other humans. God never told man to create an economic system, which would enslave him and make him suffer for food,water, shelter --three of the basic human necessities. No, other humans decided it was a good thing to create money and force others to buy/sell goods. For thousands of years this has been the issue. This is Babylon at it's finest. And everything within it is killing humans. You statement is so spot on: WILL HIS REWARD COME WHEN HE"S DEAD? THAT'S B.S. ". And it is!!!
So, yes, I am in agreement that it is BS, because that was never the plan. Yet in spite of it all, not one religionist or atheist or economist will get off their prissy little arses to help you. They'll point fingers, blame the other guy while you continue to suffer.
If anyone wants to end the suffering, get out of Babylon.
slaves are slaves and will always suffer at the hands of a master. slaves find comfort in believing or not believing, but they are still slaves. The Creator is not a master...
From one who has been there and seen the ravages of dementia and how it destroys the brain of those precious ones we love, I share in your pain. We kept our loved one in our home for over 5 years and it was difficult. I experienced the frustrations and felt so helpless as I watched my wife care for her mother with 12 other siblings who never stepped up to the plate but enjoyed normal vacations and and uninterrupted lives. Your anger is a normal response and I understand how you must be feeling. I stood by my wife through all of it and on a couple of occasions when I became so frustrated and vented, I was ridiculed and some family members even became angry with me. I never once blamed God but sought His intervention. There is not a doubt He cares for those who are afflicted and those who are caregivers. Decisions that had not been made previously such as a living will ultimately became the call of the primary care physician. With the brain completely destroyed, my wifes mom was admitted to the hospital where she died about one week later, peacefully and many of the issues were finally resolved. The time in the hospital allowed family members to sit and talk some things out. I hope your dad finds some help because at 80 years of age, he cannot go it alone.
Only just seen this, so apologies for not replying earlier.
I guess I would be considered a bible thumper in these forums, as I quote the bible in most posts, so I guess I'd better reply to you.
Firstly, your father is displaying a total love and commitment to his wife in the last years of their lives, and I presume they have been married many years, and in their age group that normally means that they have some commitment to Christ, even if they just got taught it as kids, but never went deeper than that.
You should honour that love and support him and your mother during these trying times, they deserve that, and it will bode well for you.
Neither I nor anyone else can speak of whether your parents will receive a reward or not in eternity, they alone have decided that in this life.
80 is a fine age, and frankly until medical science started to extend our lives, it was beyond the scope of most folk. I believe 76 is the median age of death for men, with women living a few years longer, so they have both lived a long time and whether we like to face the fact or not, we all die.
My parents lived until 90 (for my father) and 86 for my mother, both were fit and healthy until the last months of their life, my father died of asbestosis, which started when he worked in the Post Office underground railway in the London, where the tunnels were lined with asbestos. It killed him 40 years later.
My mother fell of a chair as she was taking down the curtains to wash them, she was 86 but they replaced her broken hip three days later... so far so good. Then she contracted a 'hospital disease' and died three months later.
I cannot blame their deaths on an uncaring God any less than I could blame them on the world system.
Both worked hard all their lives, and gained very little for it, a few low cost holidays, no real luxuries wanted or bought, but a satisfaction in rearing two children who cared for them, but not enough to stay living in the same area, as they had with their parents.
Our world has changed, God has not and never will.
I cannot make any argument for our incapacity to understand Gods ways, but I will contest that we can have a relationship with God that will allow us to live in peace with what the WORLD throws at us, and for those who believe and have not just faith, but trust as well, God does seem to be able to protect us... but bad things happen in this world and the lack of social cohesion and the lack of social services also both contributed to this situation.
It was not God that urged us all to pursue our own wills and move away from our family unit, nor was it God that wanted a social services unit to assume responsibility for our aged, homeless and sick members.
We (humanity) started that move, and there is little selfless devotion to our families left in the western world.
Why do bad things happen to good people?
Well in the case of dementia, it probably stems from mercury amalgam tooth fillings or cooking and eating from aluminium cookware for a long period of years.
Neither things which are the fault of God.
I fully understand your anger and doubts about God, but our real enemy is Satan who actually controls the world system.
The answer is to step OUT of the world system (by renouncing Satan's authority over one)and follow God pathways in faith and trust.
Will that ensure that we will not suffer... no way, we may still suffer, but we will know that it is because the world has found a chink in our spiritual armour and managed to attack us successfully.
Now you have had a 'bible thumper' reply, so vent your anger on me if you wish, but leave God out of it, most folk do anyway and only blame God when their own management of their lives has failed.
God knows you, He knew all of us before we were born, and He knows the time of our death before we were born also, which He should do anyway, as He is not constricted by time.
But the real question is, do we know God, and do we TRUST in God, or the things of man?
You're either trolling or you didn't read the post, because nobody is that shallow who isn't a troll.
I read the crap. My response wasn't out of shallowness, it was out of redundancy. The blaming God, cursing God game is old and lame. This isn't a genuine venting of emotions. If was--why not write it as a hub? Why not vent to a priest or reverend? If you're too blind to see most hubbers angry at God post in forums not for emotional therapy or whatever, but rather to instigate BS.
This post was a shit-starter. And anyone who replied with care and concerning words most likely fell for this dupe.
Don't worry about it. As has already been pointed out we're all equally fraudulent in our commiseration anyway!
People are so weird.
Yes, the human experience is old and lame. Each generation, endlessly for tens of thousands of years, suffers the same finite set of possible experiences, over and over. They lament them the same way, over and over, changing only the languages they use to speak it and the details of the rituals.
Lamenting the fact that people lament this cyclical human reality is just as old and lame as the lamentation about which you lament. The only difference is that your cynicism seeks to displace the softer emotions with harder ones, trading sympathy and kindness for denial and surliness.
Who made you the master of how people express themselves or find some measure of solace? Your suggestion of two options does two things: 1) Proves there is more than one way to find comfort in a crisis, and 2) That you have a very small capacity for fathoming methods by which someone might find comfort.
We see the world as we know ourselves. I'm sorry for you there, but I will say, had you actually read this thread you would see that your accusations are wrong and that in the largest percentages, this thread has been nothing like what you assume it to be. Your accusations of BS and S-starting shine far more light on who you are and how you see the world than they reveal anything that actually has taken place in the thread.
Wonk-wonk, wonk-wonk, wonk-wonk!
That's all I hear from you breath.
I had initially addressed Stimp's remark--not yours. But I guess you're her civil rights attorney, huh? Or spiritual counselor, eh? So I need to go through you, hmm? Okay, umm, schedule me an appoint some time, uh, in the next millennium.
You wrote it in a public forum. In case you aren't familiar with how that works, EVERYONE can see what you write. So when you vomit up stuff like that, someone's liable to say something, which clearly you are banking on.
But at least with this last remark it's obvious you're just here to be a troll. So I'll stop feeding you. That was my bad.
Your bad was trumpeting your defense of Stimp's remarks in excessive advocacy. You went above and beyond moderation. Ohma didn't like what I said--but she didn't get willy-nilly and beat in a useless argument. She said her peace and that's that. Earnestshub didn't like what I said--but he didn't jump on a civil rights crusade to crucify me. Said his disagreement and that's that.
But you, however, feel it's your duty to argue from a platform not commissioned to you. By that I mean, your point is irrelevant even if you feel someone needs to say something to my "waa, waa, waa" in defense of Stimp--but Stimp did not request you to do so. Unless I'm mistaking about that. Are you Stimp's Voice of Reason--her Mediator--her Forum Savior?
As far as trolling, no. I simply wrote, "waa, waa, waa" which could've easily been ignored and overlooked. But you made a teeny, tiny, itty-bitty comment into a gigantic , inflammatory debate. So who's more at fault: the one who wrote 3 childish words--or the one who wrote a half a page dissertation detailing the insincere attributes of a meaningless 3-word comment?
Sorry Pal but that was really uncalled for.
If you could not be supportive of a fellow human in pain you could have at least kept out of it.
Exactly! A little empathy would have been nice!
I don't believe in what you might think is "Christianity". So sign up all you want. Also, that rant by Stimp isn't genuine emotional pain meant to seek empathy. Read it: 95% of it is negative insults or "blasphemy" to someone who wears their Christian God on their sleeve.
Second, from the time that stuff allegedly happened to Stimp, she had enough time to cool down and think level-headed. If not, why not express her pain in more creative writing...in a hub? Have any of you attempt to read her profile or hubs.
"I usually write late at night when I'm pretty much punch drunk."
Her own admission is being wasted on alcohol late at night when she has the greatest desire to write. Her own words tell you her "writing ideas" come to her "LATE AT NIGHT" when she's "TOTALLY INTOXICATED". From what I've experienced with encounters with heavily intoxicated drunks is that they because very flippant, running off at the mouth about things that are either stupid, impractical, or outright malicious--always behind some broken down emotional state.
I'm not saying that the incident didn't occur. But her reaction in this forum is a classic act of someone angry at somebody's God and they want to shoot out belittling remarks.
Empathy? For what?--a non-genuine cry for help!
She claims she's a writer--a good one. So why didn't she intelligently, creatively HUB IT? I'm not omniscient so I don't know 100% why not. But I'm insightful enough to know, Stimp was just "waa, waa, waa-ing".
So some of ya'll need to learn to peep out the game tactics people play.
Well first off, is either party saved? if yes, then they should be suffering less because god loves his people more than sinners which is NOT to say he doesn't love sinners, he does, but sinners are not under gods protection or care as much as "his people" are. for instance, israel was under god protection and he got them out of egypt while egypt was basically ruined just prior to their leaving.
If no. Well then, how is god glorified if he cures the dementia and allows the two to walk out the door of life and into death without any tribulation at all. People who have it good, are rich, old and in perfect health, content, etc.. don't usually repent and become saved of their own volition, therefore, god allows what naturally comes to pass, in this case dementia, others cancer for example, in order that they might turn to him and seek solace for their grief, even repent.
God does or allows everything that people might repent and be saved. this is the only reason we are here.
your anger is not the correct form of expression here. You have picked your life and you find no one to help you. That really does suck. Everybody thinks they do not need god until they are in a position they cannot overcome. Then it is god help me. If you repent and come to the lord he will comfort you in your time of need. This is one of gods promises.
I'm waitin to hear from from the big Bible Tumpers....similar too watching MIND FREAK.....its all a scam...Thanks guys, love ya both.
Hey Stimp - sorry to hear your tribulations.
Honestly - if a care home is an option - I heartily suggest using one if there is a good one available.
Although it might feel like a "betrayal," there are qualified people there who have expertise in dealing with this sort of thing, and - she will not know in any case. An 80 year old is not physically capable of looking after some one in this condition.
Although - I have just about given up fighting with my 95 year old Granddad who point blank refuses to go into an assisted living home just two block away from the apartment he lives in but is unable to manage the steps down to the street.
He is a obstinate old bastard.
After being the sole caregiver for my husband for the past 6 1/2 years someone told me today that God never gives you more than you can handle. I walked out of their office and said to myself - God didn't give me this. What a stupid, trite thing to say and why would some God be throwing us up against a wall to see if we stick? I do not think we are play things for some ginormous, unseen being. People who thump bibles can't read methinks it is why they thump on them instead!
My heart goes out to you and your father. It is a horrible thing when a person's mind has gone but their body still remains. I know some really good tips for helping the caregiver and that is about all one can do in a circumstance such as yours is to lend themselves to the care of the caregiver.
I'm not sure what a Bible thumpler is, but I do believe in God. I'm sorry for what your family is going through. We went through the same thing with my parents, and it was tough. Even though I'm a believer, I can no more explain the ways of God to man than John Milton could, and I'm certainly no Milton.
I believe in God too habee, by whatever name humanity uses. That being said I am not a great fan of religion only because it has been horribly misapplied. My daughter's rabbit thumped at me tonight when I put her back in her cage...rabbit thumping I can take, bible thumping, not so much.
Trying to explain the (admittedly) strange way that God works is like trying to describe what a skunk smells like to someone who has never smelt a skunk before (in no way am I directly comparing God to a skunk).
His 'thoughts' are not our thoughts, and what happen in this life is not always his will but most of the time the results of our own choices. But when you believe in him, you'll overcome all bad things with his strenght, and you will have peace in your heart that is beyond comprehension of the human mind. You father loves your mom, and he choses to look after her. Support him! Give the assistance he needs. Love him. Then you will calm down, think positive, and do the best you can for him. Don't use your precious energy and mindpower to be angry at God and Bible thumplers. Focus on the problem and handle it with dignity. You should be sooo proud of your dad. I'll keep you in my prayers. May your pain turns into courrage and strenght. My heart goes out to you!
Stimp - ref your mom - Does she get the medical treatment she needs? Are your father co-operating with her doctors? Please assist him. Let him feel good about his choice to grab this huge challenge to prove his love for your mom.
Seems it’s the non Bible Thumpers who are coming out to offer the greatest support to you in your time of need and I am no exception.
I don’t believe in a God nor do I have much time for organised religion and I’m afraid you and your family are living proof as to why I have no time for them.
Where are the so called Christians in your area why are they not rallying around to help your father ? That’s a rhetorical question by the way, I already know the answer to that question, they may have read the story of the good Samaritan but they never quite caught the mean nor do practice what they read . But don’t despair I’m sure they’re praying for you !
As far as any true practical advice I can offer is that you really must try and convince your father that a care home for your mother is really in her best interest and his. What is the point of killing himself when that would lead to her ending up in a home anyway, unless of course you are planning to take on the burden yourself, again not recommended. What your father is doing out of a sense of love and loyalty you might consider doing out of guilt.
I can understand your rage and the need to shout ‘UNFAIR’ at the world at large. Problem is life is unfair and there isn’t a God who is going to come along and make your or anybody else’s life any better.
I think the time has come for you to channel your rage into action and to be strong and if necessary stand up to your father and over rule him if that’s what it takes. I’m sure your parents family doctor will be on your side. I can’t imagine an 80 year old is actually capable of providing the real care your mother needs.
Be strong; concentrate your thought s on the needs of both of your parents and do what is best. Don’t expect any thanks in fact you will probably get the opposite but that is normal too !
Sorry to hear what you're going through Stimp. I "lost" my mother to a viral brain infection back in 1993; after she'd recovered from the acute infection, she was fine physically but had totally lost any short-term memory or awareness of where she was.
She spent the next 13 years in a home and died in 2006.
In a way I am glad not to be a believer because it spared me from going down the "why does God allow sh1tty things to happen?" route.
I hope your dad manages to find some good care for your mother.
I also am sorry to hear what you are going through.
It appears that you have received a lot of good advice.
I don't know what this has to do with anything ?? But .. it is always good to look at things from a different prospective. Even if you disagree.
And this is certainly a different prospective from what I have heard here.
When you were younger your parents disagreed with many of your choices. But allowed you to carry your burden as you choose. Now the tables have turned.
As we get older .. Our independence and dignity is about all that we have left to cling to. Without these we loose our love for life.
Stay close to your dad and support him and his wishes as best as you can for as long as you can.
Taking care of your mom may be his only purpose in life ,
His focus that keeps him balanced.
When it is all over you want to have NO regrets
I know that you're angry with this very difficult situation and I'm sorry that you and your family are going through it. I think it's really best to see how to make the situation better for all family members involved so that you don't feel so helpless. Perhaps your father can talk to several people who can recommend good places for your mother because they found it to be a caring and effective home. It might help your father from feeling as if he is abandoning her, which he is not.
My heart goes out to you stimp. my mum looked after my Dad when he got altzeimers. It is devastating for all the family.very occasionally my Dad had lucid moments and stunned us.On a practical note if your mum still goes out to the shops on her own make sure she has identification and a contact telephone on her. I hope your Dad can get some form of home help.
They say that the hardest thing for someone to go through is the loss of a child.. but I don't think losing a parent or seeing them suffer is that much more easier to go through
If you really want the Bible's perspective though, (and keep in mind that I haven't memorized it page by page, nor am i a 'thumper') the only thing that I can suggest for the 'insight' you asked for is the 'Book of Job'.. which essentially boils down to we are not in a position to be able to judge or understand how the world works sometimes.. and that sometimes the cruelest of things can happen to the nicest of people.
The only thing you can do for your parents is the best that you can do.. and in order to do that, you have to make sure that you take care of yourself first.
Are thoughts and compassion are with you.
Hey Stimp....it's hard to see your parents struggling at this stage of life...my mom took care of my dad at different times throughout their marriage...it was hard...she would have done anything for him...guess that's where your dad is coming from...he's hanging on to what he had/has - his love, his wife; alzheimers is such an awful disease for everyone to deal with; hopefully there are in-home support services he can access since he wants her to stay home with him; those services if available could include helping him to 'see' and make the decision ....I wish you and your family well...
Stimp, are you still reading this? Are you okey? Do you think we can actually help you with more than just commenting on your post?
Ya, I'm still reading and I do appreciate ALL comments. I'm not sure how to take this one however. Do I "ACTUALLY" think anyone can help me other than comment on my post? Ummmmmmm.....the comments are my 'therapy' and YES they do help. That is what the forums are about....people reaching out and helping. Sorry 'bout it.
Stimp, I have no answers, but I've got a big hug and listening ears for you.
I don't think God has anything to do with what's going on with your mom and dad. I don't know. But the more anger that is put out there, the more I believe you will suffer. That's what I've learned from my own experience. It's obvious how much love you have in your heart. That's the best news.
BIG thanks to all who shared their stories and comments. Very helpful to know others have had the same experiences and I'm not alone. Thanks.....love to all....
Wow! I feel quite relieved, and so glad that these comments help you. You'll soon know exactly what to do. Thumbs up for you - and remember it is okay to get terribly angry when things go wrong. Anger forces one to act. Just make sure you act FOR your parents - for both of them - and not AGAINST them, then you will be proud of yourself now and forever. Strongs!
I've gone through hell and back myself. I had to watch my mother die of cancer four years ago, and my father died when I was ten years old. Nobody said life would be easy.
In fact, just when I thought I was done with all the pain I was asked to watch over my landlords who are almost 90 years of age. Their kids and grandkids don't care about them and I'm all they have. I visit them every day, sometimes twice a day, do groceries and pharmacy shopping, sometimes I cook for them and pay it out of my own pocket.
It's hard for me to see this because it brings back the pain of what I went through with my parents. Still, it is this pain that makes you grow as a person. You don't see it right now because the pain blinds you. But trust me, once this chapter ends, you'll be stronger and wiser.
It's important that you find the strength to be there for your parents right now. If you need to vent, use hubpages forums as a tool. There is nothing wrong with that. We are not there for you in person, but our prayers and good thoughts are with you. Whatever you need, I'm here too.
Seeing our parents become frail -- either bodily or mentally -- is devestating. I've experienced both. Including almost the exact situation you've got with your dad and mom.
My father-in-law, 87, (who I adored)had dementia. My mother-in-law, also 87,insisted on caring for him at home til the end. Although the kids felt he would be better cared for in a home, we respected her wishes, even though we did not agree with them. This was HER choice to make. It was HER life partner of 60+ years.
Now that he is gone I can clearly see why she insisted on spending those last couple of years/months/days one-on-one (with some hospice care at the end) with him.
As to blaming God. When I pray to God I pray for acceptance of His will. There are way too many situations that make no sense. How could a loving God allow 9/11 to happen? Or Katrina, or the Haiti earthquakes or the horrendous flooding in Pakistan or war or children dying of leukemia... the list goes on. The answer is it's all part of life. I don't believe you have to turn away from or reject God. Right now you are in the earliest stage of grief -- which is ANGER. Over time -- however long it takes -- you'll get to that place of acceptance.
In the meantime, we are here for ya anytime you need to vent.
I am sorry for your trouble and for your father's struggle as well as for your mother's illness.
My father died when I was ten years old, he died of cancer. No one told us kids that he was going to die, he had been a great strong man and he worked until within a couple of months before his death even though he had been battling cancer for three years.
We were watching The Carol Burnett Show, me my mom, and her mom. Dad's mother and Father had left earlier in the day along with all the other company my mom had brought in for Dad's last Thanksgiving. They were on their way home to West Virginia, and my grandmother's last words to my mom before leaving were "I'm just afraid that he won't make it... By the time I get home we'll be turning around to come back..." I did not hear these words, I did not know he was dying.
As the Carol Burnett Show ended, and Carol tugged on her ear lobe saying "Good night everybody" I heard a noise. Daddy was awake, and I jumped up and raced down the hall to his room and flipped on the light. What I saw had me back against the wall and scream something I don't recall. My mother came running, and Grandma behind her. One of them pushed me into the bedroom across the hall and slammed the door. I had seen my father choking to death on the skin that was hanging from the roof of his mouth and peeling from his tongue. Skin that he had asked me to cut out with scissors. Skin that I had been told not to cut out, no matter how much he asked me... it was killing him and I blamed myself.
I turned to the only one I knew could help. GOD, yeah, I fell to my knees and prayed and begged and cried. I asked God to take me instead, I explained that my family didn't need me probably wouldn't even notice that I was gone. Sure, my parents loved me, but nobody needed me. The whole family needed my father.
In that moment I felt my heart as if it were being ripped from my chest, as if a great hand had reached in and grabbed my heart and was tearing it out.
I opened my eyes and looked at my chest in fear, maybe in that moment in my faith in God, I feared for my own life. I don't know, I just know that it hurt worse than anything I had ever felt. I knew then that my father was dead and in that moment began to curse God. It was his fault, I had offered myself and he should have just taken me. I gave him the worst curse a ten year old can name: "I am NEVER talking to you EVER EVER AGAIN!"
At the age I am now that sounds small, but I had been taught in church that God desires our conversation and praise. Silly religious people.
I am a devout Christian now, and I believe in God. I do not believe in religion and I (Watch out I will be cursed by thumpers) I do not believe the Bible is the infallible word of God. I know in my heart that he's there. I know because I have seen true miracles, not done by preachers or teachers, but by the highest power there is.
I miss my dad, but I know now that even in it's fallible way, the Bible very clearly states that we are on our own here. Be fruitful and multiply, is what it says. It does not say "I will keep you in good health all of your days" it does not say "I will see that you never suffer or have any pain, or poverty"
Read Job, Read Psalms, Read Proverbs. As Fallible as the words in the Bible are, they are stories of people suffering and crying out to God for help. Sometimes he does something, but more often than not, when God answers, the answer is "No".
Stimp I'm sorry you -and your parents- are going through this.
I don't want to say anything that might make you feel worse, but it's great I am sure to your dad just that you're there, when you can, and that you care. Ultimately though, until things become extreme, it is his decision. He has to do what he feels is right for him and her.
I know you feel helpless, and want to find a solution to your parent's problem, but there's no cure for love, old age, and a dedicated sense of loyalty and responsibility. You can help him out when you can, be there for him and listen to him when he needs your support, and occassionally make the suggestion, but I don't think you should harp on it too much too often. It's his decision to make and all you can really do is try and support him in it.
Alot of older people will not live for long once their spouse goes. His ability to still care for her may be what is keeping him going.
As far as the suffering goes, you know I'm no christian, so please don't take what I'm saying as an excuse for their nonexistant god. But that said, life brings death, and death brings life. Sorrow lends to love and love to sorrow. It's just the way of the world, and I think we understand that better as we age.
Is your dad complaining, or just venting? Is he cursing his fate? If he is expressing that he no longer feels he can deal with this, then you have a right to bring up alternatives and attempt some serious persuasive measures as long as that mood lasts.
But if he is determined he can do it and that is what he wants, then it's between him and her. Or just him and him acting on her behalf as the case may be. If you're convinced the situation is beyond his control, then there are legal measures you can pursue. He might forgive you.
But as long as he is able to care for her and that's what he wants to do, let him, love him, and support him. It's hard to see because you're too close to your parents, but it's just a natural and beautiful part of life and love. Don't try too hard to take it away from them before they are ready to let go.
I'm assuming he loves her, and that they have had a long and good marriage. When you ask about his reward, it's in his memories, in the love and joy they shared, and even in every unpleasant task he performs now for her well-being and comfort. His reward is in all of that, and in the mirror everytime you look at it. Based on what you've described so far, relieving him of this burden might not be in his best interest.
All that said, I totally get your pain and desire to help him. Having aging and vulnerable parents is such a tough thing to go through. Vent anytime you need to (or better yet, before you need to).
Your post is so sad and moving. I'm very sorry for the anguish you and your family are going through. There's nothing I can say beyond the fact that you and your family are in my thoughts, for whatever that is worth. I know sharing pain helps a little, so I'm glad so many have seen your post and offered their thoughts and prayers to you.
I'm not one for religion, and I haven't seen any evidence that there is a caring God, for all the reasons you list in your post. But I haven't ruled out the essence of goodness as something that matters, even if it's just something deeply psychological. I hope all these loving thoughts around the globe going out to you and your family help in some way.
Hang in there.
I had written a long reply, but I have decided to just say:
I very sincerely wish you well.
I have been through this. Time really, really does heal (like we have a choice?).
I’m glad that most of the thumpers at least had enough class to not post on this thread.
YOU WILL GET THROUGH THIS!!!!!!!!!!
Again, thank you all for your stories, gestures and comments. I obviously was very angry when I wrote the post. Those here who "know" me...know I'm not normally that b@ll blasting. Thanks everyone, again, for reaching out and giving me the virtual hugs needed.
I am sorry Stimp. Facing reality is not always pleasant as you know. No matter how good you are, there is always trouble to be faced in life. No, it's not fair, but it is the price for being lucky enough to have lived at all!
Stimp - I am sorry your family is having such a difficult time right now. I sincerely wish I could help. The only thing I can offer and I believe it has already been suggested but you should really look into getting some help in the home for your parents. In my area the Agency for Aging would pay for respite care for so that you dad would not be on his own so much.
The other thing that I would encourage you to remember is that yes your dad is suffering but so is your mom. They both need help.
Like the atheists, agnostics, antagonists, jungists or other cults care anymore than the christians do? Please. None of you care, so long as ya'll aren't the ones involved personally. Yes, the empathetic river runs deep --about an inch and a half. Careful not to drown in the economic trough.
Silliness. All of it. The formers blame the later, blame the presents, blame the none, blame the system, as "the wheels on the bus go round and round..."
That is b*ll*hit 21 and a cruel thing to say to the OP. People do care, and don't need your projections that are motivated by your obsession with "isms"
Many people have a broad range of knowledge and I bet you could see all of it as "isms"
Your agenda leaves no room for empathy, just you being right about "isms"
No sign of caring in that.
Whatever, Jungo. The truth sucks, doesn't it? You could give a rats arse, so long as your prissy little one is safe. Go ahead and lie for your god. I dare ya.
Empathy? You don't even perceive real empathy. What is that cyber empathy you "feel"? You people are empathetic without the "em".
The man has a right to be angry and hurt. Washing it away with "i feels" doesn't help. So, yes, not atheist or antagonist or christian really gives a hoot.
There, I said it.
What I see is a bunch of overgrown children trying to persuade others to accept a belief or disbelief as the only answer. Mean while, truly needful people are dieing needlessly daily in all the richest and poorest countries of the world. So, yes, I see the "ism" for what it is. A slave monster that has destroyed humans for centuries. Am I incorrect?
That's mister post-jungo to you!
Which "prissy little one" would you be referring to? I hope it's not one of my grandchildren, I'll get all fired if it is.
As for lying for my god, that may be true! I would probably lie for a Honda goldwing if I didn't own one!
Being capable of love and empathy may be difficult for you, but your beliefs do not change the truth that others can.
Seems, your perception of love is as bountiful as your lol's. Can you express the exact same love to this man, as you do your own? If not, then lol at yourself...
If this reply was intended for me I would like to remind you that there were quite a few replies to the OP from non believers that were compassionate and caring.
The post I was referring to was rude, scathing, and uncalled for and it was posted by someone who claims to be a good Christian.
Now I am not saying that all Christians are as rude and insensitive but a good many here are really quick to get down and dirty when their feelings or beliefs are questioned. My point being that that post did not seem very Christian-like.
Notice I formulated my entire response without once presuming that I knew you well enough to apply any label to you personally.
Ohma, it was not directed toward you in any way. Those who know, know fully, it was directed at them. Most especially the post-believers and present ones.
Okay so now I am confused. I am having a difficult time understanding just who you are angry at. (well other than Earnest and I am not sure what he said to annoy you so.)
I know that the religious threads get a little nasty sometimes but seeing you react this way is really unusual.
This thread isn't long enough to explain it, love.
Rarely do things anger me or move me to expressive public passions. My apologies.
Do you believe then that it is not possible for us to have true compassion for someone that we have not met.
No. But I do consider that most human compassion is selfish or self serving. Example: a believer says I'll pray for you wholeheartedly (?really, I doubt it.) A nonbeliever says, I feel sorry for your situation (?really, how can they.) etc, etc.
True compassion is selfless, honest and forthright. It takes nothing to itself or for itself --as this thread as proven otherwise. It is a field for a literary joust to ensue between two or three completely clueless sides. No side wants to 'win' only knock the other off their horse and laugh in spite of themselves. Meanwhile, this man is reeling in mental anguish.
I know this by experience.
You really are harsh, and show no concern for this man's mental anguish, clearly no compassion, despite your attempt to actually define it -- in literary terms? as a concept from the pen alone? Perhaps he will see from you alone that there are much worse ills in life to encounter, and that his Dad is indeed a fine soul for wanting to stay by his wife's side, despite the hardship. Even dogs mourn the loss of their mate, are capable of sensing their mate's weaknesses, and stay by their side to help them. You would have a human be much less, it seems.
Apparently, you have not read all the posts. Might want to before tossing your jousting rod into the ring. Which, ironically, I just mentioned.
Harsh? contrary, I am blunt, to the point when it comes to sensationalists and logicians.
Most refuse to see is this mans anguish comes from his inability to be comforted by the situation or it seems the folk-in-kind. And having experienced such a horrid situation myself, having cared for both my parents and a few others, can vouch that nothing you could say/type will alter the course of ramifications -sensation or logical- that will bring him comfort. Especially since none of us are real to him. Just as the anger he is expressing toward a ba`al entity called G/god. Is your notion of compassion to torment or torture him and prolong his pain? Spoken like true selfish atheists/theists. Well done.
I think you are being a tad unjust truthfully.
It really is not fair to assume you know all people are not capable of caring and compassion based on the group of people you know personally.
stimp, what a rough situation. i believe in an indifferent, but rich universe. most of us most of the time can get what we need here. Does your father have in-home caregiving help?
Life sucks much of the time, we rage and demand answers from God, we go through periods where we refuse to believe in God because of the suffering we see in our family, I did when I was young and lost my Dad after begging God endlessly for his life. The best answer I can give you is that suffering is a part of our lives, just because one believes in God, believes in a Higher Power, feels him in the very air, does not mean that each and every one of us can expect all ails, expect all hardship, to not exist.
For me, I look at it rather oddly perhaps, having lost every single 'elder' in my family long since, I don't see God as micro-managing our lives, that seems a lot to expect from him. At the same time, without suffering, without angst, we can never really see and appreciate the utter beauty of this world we live in. To be human is to sense and feel like no other creature we know of on this earth, and that includes the painful feelings.
I'm very sorry for what you are going through, but I think your Dad is a very good person for staunchly refusing to walk way from his life partner when she is most in need of him, that is a very good man, your father. We can't ever really know what a person suffering from dementia senses, feels beyond the obvious dementia, but we can hope they feel our love, feel our presence.
God did not give your mother this disease, he gave her your father to love her unconditionally, and care for her, as I'm sure she did for him before this terrible affliction took ahold of her.
stimp I am not a bible thumper and I don't usually let on I am a believer. I like to think of myself as a liberal Catholic. i go to church every Sunday and yes I pray.I am not a great christian but I will pray that you and your family get through this terrible ordeal.
My father got altzeimers and I really know what you are going through.I got so cross with the staff at the hospital when my dad went in for an operation and they treated him badly.they were laughing and making fun of him. I really had a go at the staff.
Sorry for going on. You should be proud of your Dad for wanting to protect and look after your mum. But he must be supported and given a break from time to time. This is such a hard time for you and your family. You must find out all the support you can get.
I hope you are not offended if I say I will pray that your whole family get through this stressful time.
Stimp, I am new at Hubpages and I don't usually comment in forums as I have noticed that so many of them turn out to be a heated argument between Christians and non-Christians resulting in a feud that provides little to no help to anyone. Now, this thread seems to have strayed from your original post. I would like to turn the attention back on you and your request for support.
First of all, I am so sorry to hear about your parents and the anguish you must be feeling having reached this stage in your life and theirs.
Secondly, I will not say that I know what you are going through because my parents are still young and active. However, I have lost a baby and a grandmother whom I cherished so I do understand suffering.
Thirdly, though I would never claim to have all the answers and I am not a theologian who went to seminary to study the Bible, I am a Christian. I do not like the word religion as it seems to refer to outward actions and not the condition of the heart. I prefer to tell people that I have a relationship with my God. That relationship is not based on audible speech, but it is nourished with prayer, Bible study, and fellowship with other Christians.
Fourth, God did not cause suffering, man did. We live in a sinful world and Christian or not, we all suffer because of sin. Sin separates us from God. That is why we needed Jesus in the first place. Through Him, and Him only, can we be forgiven and our relationship with God restored. But that does not mean we will not suffer. It means that, if we receive Him, we will one day be reunited with Him and will suffer no more.
I do not wish to go on and on, but I have written several Hubs about suffering and triumph over tragedy. Perhaps they will help you. Please feel free to read them. I will be more than happy to discuss this further with you, but not in forums as I do not wish to get caught up in a heated battle by which others seem to thrive. I'm sure others will leave rude, hateful, and uncalled-for comments after this one. I will not participate in that. This will be my only post in this thread. This is not about an argument with them, but about you and that I am offering to help you understand why we suffer things in this life that seem unjust.
Please feel free to comment on my hubs about suffering and my relationship with God, but please keep the language clean. I will not approve any Hub that contains profanity or ridicules me or my God in any way.
I will, however, approve and reply to serious questions and comments.
I know you are not a believer, but please know that I will say a prayer for you tonight. Christians do care. I hope you read this and I hope I can help.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were. Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee...
John Donne - English poet of the 17th century.... Beautiful!!!
Sorry to hear about that, Stimp. I hope you and your family are able to get through this difficult ordeal.
Poor Stimp, This really was a cry for help and support, not another thread for people to debate their beliefs in. Ironically the very reason I so rarely visit the forums is because we can't just get along.
We are supposed to be adults here. Stimp has lost his beloved pet and is now losing his Mother and his father is having a hard time at his age caring for her... I would think you all would just say, something kind and helpful, possibly hopeful, or at the very least supportive. The thread is about Stimp, not your magnificent ability to debate each other into a feeding frenzy of sharks!
Again, I am disappointed in my peers. Why don't you just start a thread of your own, this one is for support of Stimp.
I totally agree Faybe Bay. These are many of the reasons I rarely come into the forum. Thank you for posting this and Stimp I am very sorry to hear about your situation and truly hope you find some peace and guidance with this problem. I know life sucks for all of us at times and it's through these times we need comfort from our friends and peers. Peace and hugs from the Saddlerider.
there are lots of ways you can get professional help other than putting the elderly in a home....... No one should be suffering abuse, and old age has never been anything to look forward to ever.
I do not profess to have all the answers, and i would not call myself a bible thumper. However i do work with dementia every day, and i do believe god cares, i believe he never meant us to get old and sick.... blaming god is not the answer/.
21 it is fascinating -really- to hear your worldview and utter disdain of your fellow man expressed. I don't think this thread was the appropriate place, and so out of respect for stimp, I'm not going to blast you.
But wow, you think we're all frauds, and human compassion is just a useless game to you. Wow! If this is really how you 'feel' then I 'feel' sorry for you. What a life must have led you to that sad and erroneous conclusion.
I don't know what has got you acting so ungentlemanly, but I do hope it's nothing more serious than a religious argument with Earn.
Hello, Pandora. All is well?
As said to Ohma, I do apologize for my gruffness and public expression is distaste. Yes, it is quite out of character for me.
My distaste for many peoples action or lack thereof when it comes to compassion, is why I responded to them so.
Some years back, I wrote a lesson on compassion for a ministry. The minister-in-charge rejected it, even while many people read it, were moved and the junior ministers went so far as to have it bound and ready for publication/distribution. It simply showed what true compassion is, versus complacent emotional apathy/empathy.
Often I find myself staying quiet with things, because what I say upsets the masses. A few blips here and there but not the full monte. But, this issue seems to have unnerved me. I am sure Stimp knows what I was referring to in my initial post to him. As for the lot, well, I have witnessed both sensationalist and logicians in here to stand firm in my statements to them. Maybe not all, but most. I have met very few humans who have true compassion. One that has no self serving purpose and self inclusion and would not hesitate in the slightest, to put themselves in that persons situation, experience it all, without complaining or regret if they knew the other human would not have to experience it...
All human emotions are self-serving. The mother who would burn to death in place of her child does so because she cannot bear to suffer the agony of losing that child. We are self contained beings. We give because of how it makes us feel (and if we have a religion, we get the extra benefit of looking forward to whatever the after-life story promises).
That said, the whole "would not hesitate... to put themselves in that person's situation" is ridiculous. You CAN'T put yourself in someone else's position. To lambaste people for expressing empty or shallow sympathy based on some ludicrous notion that if they really cared they would magically transport the essence of themselves into the body of someone else is, well, absurd.
Symptathy/empathy is what it is. It's an expression of recognition from one human to another that, while we can't truly know the depths of that other's sorrow, we can at least look at him and say, "I know what misery is, and I see you are in it. I am sorry." That is all we can do. Unless, of course, we live close enough to go help with mowing the lawn or picking kids up from school etc. to alleviate day-to-day stressors while healing takes place.
Well, okay. If you think so. I'm not sure what it is you think people gain by offering commiseration to others, but then, to be honest, I almost never understand you anyhow.
No, of course I wouldn't offer to take his place, because a. my own family kinda needs me and his needs him, not me, and b. i've done -and continue to do- my own suffering, and c. therefore who is to say my spot is any more comfortable than his?
Doesn't mean I don't feel for the guy.
I don't think compassion means what you think it means.
Eh, we all flip from time to time.
Yesterday when I posted here, I was literally crying trying to find the words to express to you how I felt. I understand your frustration with the situation, totally.
But what I was trying to express was the greater pain a part of a couple can feel when they are separated from their spouse, especially after so long a marriage as I'm guessing your parents have had.
Then last night I wondered if you have ever watched the movie the notebook. If not, in light of your current situation, you might want to.
I also think that as mentioned by others, respite care is a great idea.
Sorry to hear about your situation.
Just a few thoughts on your post.
I"ll call myself agnostic for postings sake, but I dont think that slowly drifting into dementia is so bad compared to the pain that some elderly folks suffer as they reach that age and start to suffer. So if you think about, I would feel blessed to live that long and then just fade into the distance without having to worry. It sucks that the family is left with the effects, but which is the worse of two evils. Mortality is just that.
The other opinion to consider is that most spiritual belief is built on faith.So realise if you need to vent, thats great and acceptable for someone in your situation, but just turn on the news or look around the streets at night, there is always someone worse off.
Hope things get better for you man. have faith.
Words will never be adequate to speak to the pain that you are experiencing. I am truly sorry.
What an awesome example of sacrificial love your father is showing toward your Mom.
I don't believe that this a time to answer your hurt and angry words toward the Lord but a time to pray that your hurting heart would be soothed and that you would find peace in the midst of the storm.
Your expression of pain ... speaks to the love you have for your father and mother.
My heart and prayers are with you.
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