Gospel writers had no inspiration

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   paarsurreyposted 14 years ago

   Hi friends
   
   The Gospel writers could not be inspired; they deserted Jesus at the hour of need. Did they desert Jesus from an inspiration from the “Holy Ghost”? Does the “Holy Ghost” inspire people against Jesus? It is a wrong notion that the Gospel writers had any inspiration.
   
   Thanks
   
   I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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      pjk_artistposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      The Gospel writers were absolutely inspired! That's the whole point 99% of christian miss. They were inspired by the birth of God within themselves. They told of their experiences (the holy ghost) and personified it in scripture by the name of Jesus Christ. It is these personal experiences that is called "the holy ghost" in scripture.  All names in scripture are symbolic of a STATE.
      Christmas is  really when you experience the birth of God/Jesus in the form of a vision.
      
      Heavy eh?
      
      Could Muslim scripture be just another form of story passed down for generations by men who experienced this "birth from above"? Does it  describe in any way that Allah is in all of us? Does it say anywhere that faith can change your world?
      
      Peter

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         Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Peter,
         that is interestingly put:
         . The epiphany of Spirit.
         ~James

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      stilljustwonderinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      The gospel writers were only human.  They did desert Jesus, but they didn't completely  understand scripture.  The Holy Ghost wasn't given until after Jesus was crucified and rose again.  Satan entered into Judas is why Judas conspired against him. The gospel writers wrote the gospels according to their memory.
      It all happened according to prophecy of the OT.  The prophecy's concerning Jesus, his life, death, and resurrection were fulfilled.

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         paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Hi friend stilljustwonderin
         
         Since the Gospel writers were sinners; they did desert Jesus and they did not understand scriptures completely; so we should not follow them. We should follow Jesus who understood the scriptures.
         I love Jesus and Mary as mentioned in Quran.
         
         Thanks
         
         I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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            stilljustwonderinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            After Jesus was resurrected he appeared to them.  On the day of Pentecost they were all filled with the Holy Ghost.  Their writings were inspired.  They told of the life, death and resurrection of Jesus.

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      IntimatEvolutionposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      One of them deserted at the hour of need.  One. 
      
      That is one out the eleven remaining disciples, or two out of the twelve with Judas added to the mix.  But Judas was dead by the time Peter denied Christ.  So.........., technically ONE of the eleven left.  Big difference than ALL!  Huge difference.  You must be American.  We Americans make bad assumptions and are horrible about making exaggerations and then stating them as fact.  Yeap- you must be American.
      
      One did.

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         paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Hi friend IntimatEvolution
         
         Matthew 26:56   
         Then the disciples all leaving him, fled.
         
         "All" of them had fled; there is no exception of John.
         
         Thanks
         
         I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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            Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            That is what it says...  But  Jesus had already told them to stand down and not fight.  Jesus was in the custody of those Roman soldiers. 
            
              What else was there to be done ???

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               Dave Barnettposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Call up to the Enterprise and tell Scotty to train phasers on the Garden of Gethsemane, and fast!

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            IntimatEvolutionposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Referring to Peter.

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               paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Hi friend  IntimatEvolution
               
               Peter was not "all"; all of the 12, as per Bible, fled away from the scene of Crucifixion. Had they believed in Jesus; or that Jesus was to resurrect and become god; they would have stood with Jesus. What they had to fear; if Jesus was to become god he would have resurrected them all again? Yet they fled away, all of thme without exception. Matthew says all fled; Mark also says they all fled. If John would have stood there, they would have mentioned it.
               
               Thanks
               
               I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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         ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         The Gospel of Judas is an interesting read. He was referred to by Jesus as the Thirteenth daemon.
         "your star will shine the brightest for you will sacrifice the man that clothes me" -- this is in reference to the Jewish esoteric belief that humans are the "temples", the containers of G-d's presence. It is a Gnostic belief that by dying, a divine being returns to the source and is freed from the shackles of his material form.
         
         There is a lot of political motives to the writing of the gospels as well. They were after all competing for followers.
         
         I find the Gospel of Judas to be the appropriate twist to the story of Jesus.

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      HubCrafterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      In the New Testament, the apostle Paul writes to Timothy (II Timothy 3:16):
      
      "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness."
      
      Inspiration comes from God.
      
      Who God chooses to inspire...is His choice, not ours.
      
      Who am I to judge the apostles?
      
      Am I better than they are? I know and am convinced that they, each and every one of the apostles, are better men than I am.
      
      So who am I to find fault with them? Am I so important? No. Am I someone without sin? No. Am I greater than the Father who chose them? No.
      
      Who am I to judge you? Or anyone? I am just  a christian. A sinner who heard the gospel message. It didn't make me a judge or part of a jury. It just made me see my own sin. My sin. How I fall short compared to the Lord.
      Why should I compare myself to apostles? Why should I compare myself to you? ...compared to the righteousness of Jesus Christ..what I call "good" that I have done...it's just filthy rags.
      Will I knock the apostles for running when others came to arrest  Jesus? No. I'm as weak as they were in that moment. I'm no hero. I have nothing to brag about.
      I got salvation as a gift. I didn't earn it. I have no special rights. I got in by Jesus coat-tail. He did all the suffering and the dying to pay for my sins.
      
      I'm just a grateful believer in Jesus Christ. Glad to know His promise is to me and to all who will believe.
      
      As for the apostles; they were human; ran away afraid. I can relate to that. It's real. But God was faithful to them..despite their weakness. And He gave them what He promised..the gift of the Holy Spirit. And those men were transformed, powerfully changed, filled with a new power to live and speak about their faith in the living God, the One who died and rose again and lives forevermore...Jesus Christ.

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      blindingsunshineposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      They had their weaknesses. The point is that 'NO-ONE' can go to the cross with Him, otherwise salvation isn't complete for all mankind.
      
      It is in the garden that we learn we can't go all the way with Him, that we are not Christ either, we are simply mortals with all the attributes of human nature.
      
      When we are given the Gospels, we are given the absolute truth of man, in all his weaknesses. A Gospel is the humbling of man in witness to the greater Glory of Christ. 
      
      I am sorry that you do not have witness in the Quran, it is gift to mankind, interwoven through Scripture, that comes with the ultimate price...life itself (Sacrifice)
      
      Do not think that you would take Jesus down off the cross, or not desert Him yourself,  because your true nature is written into His Holy Word
      
      God bless

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      kimberlyslyricsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Dude chill and watch, I am not religious but know you are not speaking to dumb audience, sorry but I find your post most confusing
      
      nonetheless, live here for 2 minutes and hear their gospel
      
      thanks
      
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxR4AweLeXE

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         aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Thanks Kimberley, that's a very powerful video, especially as my son works on those streets with those kids.
         
         John

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            kimberlyslyricsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            John then he is amazing, as it is where i always go back to and like John, one step at a time, him and I are 2 of those who so so passionately believe before we worry about world peace lets start with saving our kids on the streets!
            
            Give my best to John
            
            thanks, made my day aqua!
            
            

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               kimberlyslyricsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               and if you are john which i think i remember
               
               you both still rock or rap
               
               and i am proud to be slow and lame!   

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      ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I assume you think the gospel writers are the disciples
      
      Gospel writers are NOT the disciples. They are members of various sects of Christianity and they are writing about a tradition passed on verbally.
      
      The Gospel of....means it is from the HOUSE of that particular sect. It represents a thinking. The Gospel of John for instance is Gnostic.
      
      They are inspired by their faith to represent the truth as they understood it....just as Muhammad did.

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         paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I think commonly it is believed that the disciples wrote the four gospels; though I know that these were anonymous verbal accounts wich were named after Matthew, Mark, John and Luke for identification purposes.
         
         What is your source for saying that these were written by members of various sects of Christianity ? Please
         
         Thanks

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            ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Well I think elaine pagels is a good place to start... or google it, it will be there... it's pretty common knowledge to those who know a little bit of biblical history. As I said, its common knowledge among biblical scholars and those who are a little bit well read that the gospels are NOT written by the apostles but from somebody around as much as 80 years after death...and since the year of death is not certain, it could be thirty years or something from the date believed to be, that number may be more.
            
            Also, watch Da Vinci Code, and you'll learn about the Christian sects and council of Nicea. There were many churches and they had different accounts and interpretations...one of which that Jesus was gay, that Jesus married magdalene and that he was a misogynist and so on...At the Council of Nicea, the four gospels were chosen for their "safeness" and the rest were burned...if its in a movie, its common knowledge.
            
            There are even some accounts that the story of Jesus was a compressed story of three people from the Essenes...One account is that Enoch's words are credited to Jesus and it was James that was crucified, his brother and not him....many many versions.

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      kimberlyslyricsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxR4AweLeXE

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      EphremHagosposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      The source of inspiration, a.k.a., the Holy Spirit, is exclusively time-sensitive to Christ's perfect and diacritical death on the cross, either in anticipation,  at hand, or retroaction.
      
      Breakthroughs among the disciples were few, painfully slow and isolated with broad consensus reached only after 40 days of intensive rehabilitation on the eve of the day of Pentecost.(Acts 1: 1-5)

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   thirdmilleniumposted 14 years ago

   Gospel writers were just men who were dumb and utter lack of belief was their hallmark. Even after having been with Jesus when he performed all those miracles, they wavered in their belief. How could they have been inspired?
   
   People wrongly believe that Jesus meant Peter when he said that he would build his church on "this" rock. I am not sure but Peter could just have been an agent of Satan.

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      pjk_artistposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      The dumb gospel writers made their stories to hard for you to understand that they experienced the birth of Jesus from within. They performed the miracles. They're inspiration is what we have now...and sadly misinterpret learnedly.
      Peter denies Christ thrice. Satan is the state of denial.

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   Onusonusposted 14 years ago

   At the feet of Christ John was present, and witnessed his crucifixion. To fufill the prophecy, "I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me," he shouldered the burdon of humanity alone as a perfect sacrifice. Why else would the Jews have sacrificed an unblemished lamb every year for the passover, since the day that God delivered the children of Israel from Pharoah?
   It was in similitude of the sacrifice of the only begotten Son of God, just as every old testament prophet declared since the begining.

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   pylos26posted 14 years ago

   Stilljustwonderin wrote:
   
   
   “The gospel writers wrote the gospels according to their memory.”
   
   
   I say,
   Since the gospels of mathew,mark,luke and john were written 3-5 hundred years after their deaths…the writers surely had an abundance of memory.

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      Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      And, where did you learn that Pylos?

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         pylos26posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Hello Cags
         
         When reading, I believe it is up to one’s self to decide what to believe and what is rubbish. Those decisions of mine are based upon the character and ability of the author to express his/her self in such a convincing way as to cause the truth of the subject to become self evident, if you will.
         
         I was inspired by a founding father that took the time to read the testaments, take them apart word for word and expose the fabulous frauds and lies and other bad things they contain.
         
         That founding father was Thomas Paine and his convincing book is his “Age of Reason”.
         It’s a damn fine read.

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      pjk_artistposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      ...or perhaps the writers experienced something divine and named the stories mathew,mark,luke and john,,,

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      stilljustwonderinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Ok, at that time, they believed that generation was going to see the end so they weren't writing everything down.  They were retelling the events to others.  Approximately around 65-70 AD they did start writing the events down.  Of course by that time, it was memories being revisited.

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      HubCrafterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      "Since the gospels of mathew,mark,luke and john were written 3-5 hundred years after their deaths…the writers surely had an abundance of memory."
      
      Matthew and John were two of the twelve apostles. These two were followers chosen by Jesus to hear His teachings and see His life day by day. They were His witnesses. Daily they ate and walked and lived as Jesus did. They lived in Jesus day. Not 300 or 500 years later.
      
      They wrote down what they saw and what they heard while Jesus still lived.
      
      The other two gospel writers were more like interviewers or editors of existing stories. Luke and Mark, gathered up the words of other eye-witnesses to Jesus life and ministry. Mark got most of his information from Peter. Luke may have gotten his information from other living witnesses like Jesus brother, James; Peter was still alive then too;  he may have used some of Mark's information; and he was a very close friend of Paul.
      
      All of this writing took place in the first century. The same century that Jesus lived on earth. We know this because various well-known christians in the second century (like Clement for example), wrote about the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John; and they quoted from these books...just as we do today.

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   Jeramiposted 14 years ago

   HubCrafter wrote   Paul writes to Timothy
   (II Timothy 3:16): "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness."
   
   
      
     Jerami wrote   No offense meant  BUT   
     What scripture was Paul talking about ?
     We can only use this verse as validation of those scripture that Paul was referring to. and not his own.
     He was not declaring a testimony unto himself.
   
      We can not use things that the disciples said in a way as to dispute the word of God or the word of Jesus Christ.
   
      As long as we see their testimony as being in agreement with those things that is written that Jesus said. We are doing well.

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      aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      So do you think that Paul was not being 'inspired' when he wrote this?
      
      Was this one line of scripture not inspired, and if so, how much of the bible would you say was 'uninspired' by God....
      
      Do we take out John 3:16-19 or revelation 22 18-19?
      
      Are you an 'only the red letters' reader?
      
      Just curious, not any attack, I'm interested, indeed I'm interested to find out what you believe, you seem to be a preterist or hyper preterist, but I'm not sure, as you don't proffer many of the lines I would expect from one!

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         Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Right up front !!!  I'm a Preterits up until the seventh seal is opened.   THEN ... I'll be moving on over to being a Historicist. 
         
             And I'm a red letter Man.   If Jesus said something very clearly  and then Paul says something that seems to contradict something written in red???   I would be examining what I thought Paul said, to see if I might have misinterpreted Paul.
         
            After doing so, I discovered that I misunderstood Paul.

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      HubCrafterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      The quote says ALL scripture is inspired...in Paul's day he only had the Old Testament.
      Jesus told His disciples (the apostles) they would be His witnesses, they would testify of Him, they would carry the gospel out into the world, they would receive power from on high, they would be given the very words to speak when the time came..whether before Kings or commoners.
      Matthew and John, two of the apostles, would write down their witness to what they had seen and heard of Jesus Christ as they lived with Him over the course of His earthly ministry.
      Luke and Mark would also collect the sayings and the parables and stories of the Life of Christ and write them down for a testimony and a witness to Jesus Christ for all to read.
      These four; Matthew, John, Luke and Mark would write down the gospel, the good news. Their writing is where you find the "red letters" of Christ.
      Are these men inspired or not? The answer must be yes, if you believe the words of Christ which they recorded.
      We cannot know the words of Christ unless these men had first written them down. Yes? So what of all the "other words" (those not in red) are they "less" inspired?
      Perhaps another question is also hidden within this preference for just the red letters.
      Is God ALL- mighty? Or is He un-able to bring His truth to mankind? Is God so weak as to be un-able to inspire anyone to write? He seems to have been able to complete the Old Testament..but did He grow too tired and feeble to inspire the New Testament in it's entirety? What caused this weakness in your faith concerning the power of God almighty, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit? Is the triune God a lesser being...incapable of bringing His message clearly and publicly to all who live and breath today?
      Is the New Testament a flawed work of God or of men? Where is the un-flawed version? Why couldn't God finish what He began? He inspired the gospel writers. Perhaps God could not find trustworthy men to complete the work? Is that it?
      No. Jesus said if necessary God could make the rocks themselves speak. God is not weak. Is He? He is able to do abundantly beyond all that we would ask or think. Yes? Then God is surely able to make a New Testament which is the very testimony He desires to have written.
      God's ways are higher than our ways. His foolishness is greater than the wisdom of men. (let me know if these quotes ring out to you.) God is not mocked.
      Have faith in God. Not men. God. He is more than able to provide us with all we need...from our necessary food, our clothing, our shelter, and our spiritual food...the scriptures.
      Let all men be liars and let God be God.

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         Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Based on your logic, can I assume you're not telling the truth, then?

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            HubCrafterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Lol. If you want to win the argument. Yes.

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            HubCrafterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            But...your response seems so....incredibly brief.
            Especially in the face of such a long-winded comment. Lol.

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               Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Sometimes, brief and succinct bring clarity to the long-winded.

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                  HubCrafterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  I bow to your clarity, my friend.
                  
                  May I also be even more candid?
                  (Seeing how I have admitted to having lied.... many, many times in my life.)
                  
                  Is there anyone who can truthfully look back on their own life...and not admit thay they too have lied? ...many times?
                  
                  I'm not asking to embarrass...just to make this one point.
                  
                  Everyone has told a lie. Me, you,...anyone you know and love or even your enemies. All of us have told a lie. I am not happy to say it. But...it's a fact. All men are liars. Me included.

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                     Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Would you also conclude that telling lies is the same thing as living lies?

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         paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Hi friend HubCrafter
         
         Jesus never said that. Did he?
         
         Thanks
         
         I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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            HubCrafterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            "Let all men be liars and let God be God."
            
            (Romans 3 verse 4.)
            
            The apostle Paul wrote it.

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               paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Paul was never an apostle; he never sat in the company of Jesus and was not trained by him. He was an enemy of Jesus and his followers. He was an Anti-Christ, a false prophet in terms of Deuteronomy;  and hence he was killed as commanded in it.
               
               This is my opinion; you may have your own.

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                  HubCrafterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Paul admits to being a persecutor of the church; that he arrested them, threw them in jail and compelled them to blaspheme. He was enraged by their beliefs and had letters of authority to search the believers out, even in foreign cities like Damascus and bring them back to Jerusalem.
                  
                  But on the way, a bright light shone, brighter than the sun and he and all his companions were thrown to the ground. Paul says he heard a voice speaking to him, speaking Hebrew.
                  
                  Most of us know the words, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?.."
                  
                  And Paul replied, "Who are you, Lord?"
                  
                  And He answered, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting."
                  
                  "But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things you have seen...
                  
                  ...AND OF THE THINGS WHICH I WILL YET REVEAL TO YOU."

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         Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         HubCrafter  ...  Have faith in God. Not men ... 
         
         ME ...   Exactly !! Have faith in God. Not men ..
         And think you for your rebuttal to my comment.   It makes a point for me.  You interpreted what you read differently than I intended. You made a wrong assumption.
         =====================
         HubCrafter ...  "What caused this weakness in your faith concerning the power of God almighty"
         ==================
         Jeramy     ...  Wrong assumption ! My faith in God couldn't be any stronger.   What I said is true. When Paul said "All scripture is inspired of God"  He wasn't testifying that what he was saying was inspired by God. Or that every interpretation that anyone makes out of those scripture are correct.
             Paul was speaking of those written words that was the scripture at that time.
            
         
             You  interpreted more into what I said than what I said; 
             We do this every time we read just about any thing that we read.
             And this is what I have been trying to express. 
         We need to be more careful when reading scripture cause
         Our preconceived ideas influence what we THINK that we are reading.

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            HubCrafterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I see what you are saying, Jerami.
            
            Please, let's talk a little more about this.
            
            You are right. Paul did not know his words would become part of the scriptures, the new Testament. That was decided later, by other men. He was not talking about himself or his words. God led other men to decide that.
            
            Regarding Paul's words, his teaching...
            
            In the Book of Acts, chapter 26, Paul is making his defense before King Agrippa. Paul gives his testimony...how he met the risen Lord, Jesus Christ on the road to Damascus.
            
            Paul admits to being a persecutor of the church; that he arrested them, threw them in jail and compelled them to blaspheme. He was enraged by their beliefs and had letters of authority to search the believers out, even in foreign cities like Damascus and bring them back to Jerusalem.
            
            But on the way, a bright light shone, brighter than the sun and he and all his companions were thrown to the ground. Paul says he heard a voice speaking to him, speaking Hebrew.
            
            Most of us know the words, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?.."
            
            And Paul replied, "Who are you, Lord?"
            
            And He answered, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting."
            
            "But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things you have seen...
            
            ...AND OF THE THINGS WHICH I WILL YET REVEAL TO YOU."
            
            Those things which Jesus speaks of..which He will yet reveal to Paul...they would seem to be inspired things; things which God would reveal to Paul at some future time.
            
            Perhaps there is enough room for each of us to be correct. Perhaps there just hadn't been enough talk to make it clear yet.

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               Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               I am glad that we agree about what Paul was speaking of.
               
                  Whether Paul is considered as a legitimate Apostle or not is not an issue to me. We can assume that he was sincere.
                 It is my opinion that when Jesus said one thing very clearly, we should not alter the obvious meaning of his message just because any of the apostles said something that can be
               misunderstood to be contradicting Jesus' clear and concise message.
                   I think that too many people study the preaching by the disciples and ignore those things that are written that Jesus said.
               
                   Jesus said that all things that were written concerning him would be fulfilled during that Generation.
               
                  In the private conversation that Jesus had with Peter, James, John and Andrew;  Jesus told them of things that they would see, and things that would happen to them.
                  Jesus then said that All of these things would happen before that generation passes away.  But no one knows the day or hour that the last one would happen.
               
                   There is not any single thing in the New Testament that contradicts this being true..
                   It is our desire to accept the misinterpreted messages that makes some of these verses seem to contradict what Jesus said.
               
                 If this issue were to be truthfully studied with an open mind,  A totally different story will become evident..
               
                 At least in my opinion.

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                  Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  This is simple to understand. The correspondences which made up the entire "New Testimony" are not remotely close to the complete "Old Testimony". The first was inspired for the things mentioned until...yes...faith came. The entire collection of correspondences between believers was not simply for instruction, but acknowledgment of events. Paul was an astute graduate of the law and no doubt highly influenced by that knowledge. But reading those letters one by one shows no contradiction. They all do show one complete thing: letting go of the conscious mind, the thoughts in it, and allowing the [already prepared and waiting] fullness to come upon each one who believes. Note most --if any-- of the letters suggest partiality or even partial fullness. There is much naivety in the entire "power three" and even splinter groups regarding this.

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                     Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     I've been contemplating this post and can't decide between a number of prospectives that come to mind.
                     
                       I think that many people do not try to get to know their subconscious mind, and it would be a good thing to do.
                       It doesn't seen right to just do away with the conscious person that we are. To discover the unknown driving force that lies under the surface might just be the free will talked about in scripture??  I don't think that we ever function properly in life until these two come together in agreement and become one minded.
                         I don't know!  Just expressing what comes to mid after reading your post!
                     
                         Maybe after we become one minded we attain that third eye that some people talk about?
                     
                         Any way that is my thinking out loud moment.

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                        HubCrafterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        (A)  "I think that many people do not try to get to know their subconscious mind, and it would be a good thing to do.
                        
                        (B)  It doesn't seen right to just do away with the conscious person that we are. To discover the unknown driving force that lies under the surface might just be the free will talked about in scripture?? 
                        
                        (C)I don't think that we ever function properly in life until these two come together in agreement and become one minded. "
                        
                        (A)
                        "sub-conscious".
                        sub...meaning below or out of view.
                        conscious...meaning awareness and understanding what is seen.
                        
                        By the description above, the subconscious mind is not subject to observation by the conscious mind (directly). If it were..then it would simply be a part of the conscious mind.
                        
                        In medical terms the subconscious mind is located at the rear of the cranium and directly meets the spimal column. In reptiles it represents that animal's entire brain anatomy.
                        This "reptilian" brain (in man) is responsible for autonomic responses like breathing, heartrate and body temperature..none of which require conscious thought to operate. In addition the desires for food, sex and survival movement are also located here. In tandem with the visual cortex, the "reptilian" brain also controls many of our body movements such as walking, running, lifting, grasping, etc. None of these actions require conscious thought.
                        
                        (B)
                        Free Will.
                        The Bible speaks of three different "wills".
                        
                        1. The "perfect" will of God. This, as I understand it, represents God's over-arching plan for what He has decided to accomplish over time in heaven and on earth. It is un-changeable.
                        
                        2. God's "permissive" will has more to do with what He "allows" to happen. While God's overall plan is perfect; His creation is not. Sin has entered in. This was allowed. God could have destroyed His creation utterly. Instead, God's plan allows God to be merciful and loving. If He destroyed His creation He would be JUST, He would be RIGHT,. But God, in order to show His LOVE, He allowed the creation to continue to live on and within God's plan He made a way for the un-loving to hear of and enjoy the love which God has for all of us...disobedient, selfish and very human...beings.
                        
                        3. And the last kind of will mentioned..is man's will. I allude to this above in (B) concerning our selfishness; that we would rather love ourselves first than others and certainly love ourselves first before we would love God.
                        We see this in our subconscious survival instinct. We protect ourselves instinctively, without conscious thought. We, the individual come first...and long before we think of others. The same applies to hunger, the sex drive, the desire for staus or recognition and so on. We call these normal and natural, which they are..but they also are the opposite of the way God is.
                        
                        (C)
                        "I don't think that we ever function properly in life until these two come together in agreement and become one minded. "
                        
                        Your statement, quoted above, is an excellent description of how God works to bring our selfish (reptilian) mind into conformity with our conscious mind.
                        God's Plan for Man.
                        Step One: God reveals Himself to Man. If a man will see that God exists then that man is ready for the next step.
                        Step Two: God reveals His Son to Man. If a man will see that Jesus Christ was sent to pay for that man's and all men's sin; then that man can hear more and more of God's Plan and enjoy God's company.
                        Step Three: God reveals to that man that sin brings Death (physical and spiritual death).
                        Step Four: God offers His Son for that man to believe upon. If that man can hold onto that belief then that man can begin to see that he is trapped by sin and needs God to become a free man.
                        The Steps continue..but to conclude this about "free will" in man...
                        Each and every day, that man, who has taken each of these steps, can decide, of his own free will, whether to continue or to say no to God.
                        He can say yes, I want to obey God and deny my (reptilian) selfish ways or he can not obey God and do as he decides. This is free will. What needs to be understood is this. No man can overcome the desire to sin all by himself. Only God can give that man who follws God can find the help, the strength and the power to obey God and overcome his own selfishness. The subconscious cannot be overruled by man. It's an unknown force at work as far as the conscious mind is concerned. The conscious mind mrerely ascribes logic to it's silent demands. Our conscious mind simply fools itself into thinking it is in control. Another word for the unconscious mind is sin. Or at the very least it is one way to understand how we as humans can want to do good or what is right but often find ourselves doing what we don't truly want to do. That's the power of sin.
                        --sorry this is so long.

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                  2. 0

                     kimberlyslyricsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     21, whattup?  Where u been at?
                     
                     be well, gotta shuffle stuff-ya I am tired ha, stop un packing already!  It's driving me nuts.
                     
                     cheers. 
                     
                     btw do you get this thread?
                     
                     so confused :

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                        Twenty One Daysposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        Hey Kimber!
                        
                        (shh, no one was supposed to know I was gone...
                        Been busy building a foodie website.
                        Got lots of unpacking to do, hehe.
                        
                        -James
                        
                        warning: forum post deciphering software in use.
                        

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                           ceciliabeltranposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           I told a friend about it. When school starts, I'll see ya there!

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                              kimberlyslyricsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              

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6. 60

   Daniel Carterposted 14 years ago

   Sure they were inspired. Even if all the stories are fabricated, there are some great plot lines in there and some great philosophy! Same with the Qur'an. Same with any sacred writing.

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      HubCrafterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      If the stories are lies then the writing is not sacred.
      
      If the writing is sacred then the stories are not lies.
      
      If the stories are just plot lines then the stories are not sacred.
      
      If the stories are merely philosophy then the stories are not sacred.
      
      If God is truly God He has no reason to be silent concerning His will or His desires for us.
      
      If God is truly God then He is in charge of all things. Not man.

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7. 71

   aguasilverposted 14 years ago

   Thanks Kimberley, he has 400 kids on his visit list! (and his name is Jaime) and has just got back from taking some of them to summer camp, you have to start with them when they are young, if they are to escape what they have been dumped into.

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      kimberlyslyricsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      hon, just sent u email, missed this post til now
      
      and hi Jaime!  Keep doing da ting
      
      kiss

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8. 58

   Jeramiposted 14 years ago

   By the description above, the subconscious mind is not subject to observation by the conscious mind (directly). If it were..then it would simply be a part of the conscious mind.
   ====================
   
     I always felt that the subconscious mind was more aware of the surroundings and activities  going on around us better than we do.
   I've been wrong before and am sure this won't be the last time.
   But I'll keep that thought.
   
   ================================================================
   
   
   Your statement, quoted above, is an excellent description of how God works to bring our selfish (reptilian) mind into conformity with our conscious mind.
   God's Plan for Man.
   ====================
   
     This is hard to explain I hope I express myself accurately. 
   
     I think that to simply strive to become one minded with ourselves is half the battle. Our God will lead us through our subconscious mind.  Who or what that God is will have revealed himself/itself by this time.
   
      If Money, or sex, possessions, etc is our God ,it is time to reevaluate our decisions.
     By this time, if we have truly become one with ourselves we will make the right choice.
     I know that isn't what I'm thinking but pretty close ????

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