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  1. Andrew0208 profile image58
    Andrew0208posted 15 years ago


    This is a striking subject as it has being somehow controversal in all ages regarding it's relationship with the Bible. Anyway, I know Religion could be man made in nature as it is widely claimed to be related to God and deities. What is Religion all about and it's realities with or against the Bible(Scriptures).

    Religion in general, could be a complex of beliefs, cultic practice, and ethical demands in a system related to God or gods. Does it contradict the Bible, Is it man oriented and political? or does it relate good with the Bible? Does it limit or unify us with God?

    What is your opinion on this...

    1. profile image0
      sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      My opinion is that the Bible was supposed to aleviate oppressions due to religions but ultimatly has become another guise to prohibit our freedoms and have to put up with those 'religous" types that will opress the hell out of us/me/you because it suites thier understanding, their cults, thier culters, thier understandings, thier fears, thier worries and then they demand you/us/we do the same. 

      Your friends turn out to be hypocrites, liars, opressor, the ones who hurt you etc.  I hate the bible.  I mean it's really interesting and insightful and helpful and all that jazz but at the same time it is also, grotesque, hateful, misleading and a cause for human seperation, the weapon of the opressor, the book of the damned (if you aren't careful)...

    2. mohitmisra profile image61
      mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Alll holy books including the Holy Bible are Religious books.The Holy Bible is the Christian Religion.Religions are the teachings of enlightened ones like Jesus.The idea is to touch your soul and encourages you on a path of meditation-give you courage to take the journey to find God or give you a further push if you are allready walking a spiritual path.. :)Its a guide to the beyond written by the ones who have gone beyond. smile

      1. kewly profile image60
        kewlyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        I think religions have for too long, sought to control and divide.  The powerful insitutions have kept humanity undre fear and control for millenia. Religions need to stop promoting the gospel of separation and move into Onness. Their is no one religion better than another. Not everyone can fit in the same shoe. I think we need to look for the key of knowledge within to know what truth is. TRUTH is only found by finding the stillness within and using your intuition.

    3. SparklingJewel profile image66
      SparklingJewelposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      religion and holy books can be is up to the individual and what they do with it. The human ego can go off in many different directions, taken far afield from connecting with God Source.

      IT is sad to see so many people disillusioned with religions; and it is partly because of the way others have defined it and structured it into a tool for manipulation and control that has nothing to do with God and Universal Laws.

      But we mustn't get rank and negative about how others abuse religions, but show forth more of the love that we are intended to connect with. Getting negative only perpetuates the poorly perceived notions and makes the holes of delusion bigger. Staying harmonious is the only way to do one's part to rightly conceive the true nature of religions.

      It is up to each of us an individual to do our part. We can say things that need to be said without putting so much negativity, anger and hatred behind our words. big_smile

    4. Lady LaShonda profile image75
      Lady LaShondaposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      This is an interesting topic. I wrote a piece on this months ago and preached it in my pulpit. See the problem is, people can not separate the two. Most people believe that religion stems from the bible. In some religions it is true. In order to understand the bible and religion, we must understand the history.

      The context of the bible was written and inspired by God who used the prophets, apostles, evangelists, teachers (rabbi) and kings of the times to deliver such a word. As history evolved, so did the word of God. For example, during the creation, there were only three basic commandments.
      1. Be fruitful and multiply and subdue the earth. This was a blessing that was given to mankind while in the dispensation of innocence. This happend before the fall of man.

      2. Do no work on the Sabbath. This was evident in Genesis because God rested on that day. This commandment was for man to commune with God and to rest from the work week. This was also a test of obedience to God for man. This also falls in conjunction with the thrid commandment,

      3. Thou shalt not murder. After Cain slew Abel, God was displeased and grieved that he even created man in the first place. He expressed his feelings about this in Genesis around the 6th chapter. For Cain's sin, his generation was desolate and ended early. Cain's generation ended before Noah. None of them were prosperous.

      You see, these commandments were in the making before Moses went to the mountain to obtain them. As people changed, so did the word of God. The word didn't contradict as most people would claim, it simply fulfilled itself time and time again.

      The old testiment especially the first five books were what we would call the "Law." Laws were given in order to civilize a nation. To keep them pure and free to fellowship with God. Religion was not divided as much as it is today. You have Christianity but so many denominations. Catholics are either orthodox or unorthodox steming from the Roman traditions that came well after the death of Christ. In fact the first religion that opposed the Hebrew Jews was Islam.

      Islam's original formation derived from Ishmael, Abrahams first son. We have to remember that Ishmael was the son of Hagar which made him half Egyptian and Hebrew. Ishmael name alone defines his disobedience. He was ordained to serve his younger brother Isaak (who was the promised one to Abraham and Sarai). God did promise Ishmael to make him a great nation but Isaak was to be the promised blessed nation. Ismael was to rage war with his brother because he was made to serve him.

      Ishmael only believed part of God's word. Because of his egyptian roots, the belief in many gods were high. Egyptians would be classified as,"pagans" because they worship many gods thus the commandments,"thou shalt have no other gods before me" and "thou shalt not worship any graven images."

      I am nondenominational. My belief in God and Jesus are strong. I believe the entire bible, every last word. Religion, I believe is man made to suit political gains. Because the world has become a mixed breed of people, there are new religions popping up all over the place. Islam created the Nation of Islam and the Five Percent Nation is its newest addition. The problem is, The Five Percent Nation, has absolutely no biblical base.

      This new age religion called "Kabalah" is really beyond my understanding. This is the same as what people like to believe in eveything is either a negative or a positive. They believe in a higher power, but all power in in their control and with in. What they put into the atmosphere returns to them in either form. The use only certain portions of the bible. It is not the sole foundation.

      But the bible prophecied these things were going to happen when men run to and fro every wind of doctrines. God warned us about them. If any other gospel is being preached other than the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, it is wrong and Paul preach much about that in his letters to the churches. For this reason Jesus warned us about the false prophet and the beast that would come to deceive many. Even the very elect of God can be deceived. In Revelations, the false prophet is a religious political leader that gives power to the antichrist. Most people believe that this religious political false prophet may be the pope since he holds the world's religion in his hands.

      Religion has been the base of many holy wars throughout the centuries. AND every war is in the bible even down to the war on terrorism that we are fighting today. I do believe that if the world doesn't know God for themselves, will be the reason of separation from him. Religions has covered up so many truths just to control the mass of people that they themselves no longer know what the truth is. They feel as though the more ignorent the people are, the easier it is to control them. It is pure mind manipulation and they will surely have to answer to God for prostituting his holy word.

  2. Andrew0208 profile image58
    Andrew0208posted 15 years ago

    I see religion to be political, man's idea to ride on others. The Bible is Spirit and Life though written by men under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost.

    1. mohitmisra profile image61
      mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      It starts with :." The Bible is Spirit and Life though written by men under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost" .This included all holy book like the Bhagwat Gita,Ramayana,The Holy Guru Granth Sahib,The Holy Quran etc.
      Each is in  a way identical to the other,the message of the Light.Then with time ego takes over which creates the divide by ignorant people  or ones who are abusing it in order to gain more personal
      The essence of all holy or spiritual books is the same-meditate and gain God knowldge ,enlightenment.

  3. Make  Money profile image66
    Make Moneyposted 15 years ago

    In defense of religion, at least the Christian religion I'd like to say that Christianity came before one word of the New Testament of the Bible was put to parchment.

    The Church was spread throughout the entire Roman Empire before a single word of the New Testament was written.  We had Catholic saints and martyrs before we had Gospels and Epistles.  This proves to me that the Church has been guided by the Holy Ghost since the first Pentecost.

    The Gospel of Matthew was written about 7 years after Our Lord ascended to Heaven.  The Gospel of Mark was written about 10 years after.  The Gospel of Luke was written about 25 years after.  The Gospel of John was written about 63 years after.  And Apocalypse (Revelations) was written about 65 years after Our Lord ascended to Heaven.

    Through the guidance of the Holy Ghost the Canon of the New Testament was decided at the Council of Carthage in 397 A.D. which books were divinely inspired and which ones were not.

    The Bible alone and only the Bible is not Biblical as we see in 2 Thessalonians 2:14.

  4. Andrew0208 profile image58
    Andrew0208posted 15 years ago

    I so much dislike the play of religion by some religious Christian fellows who fail to walk in the light and reality of the Scriptures denying the Power therein, take for instance, a so called Christian who says Miracles are not real and that they only happened in the Bible days forgetting so dearly the ministry of the Holy Ghost in the life of a believer. Many more to talk about! Brb.

    Jesus really kicked against it.

  5. allshookup profile image62
    allshookupposted 15 years ago

    I see you have created another hot thread. Good job. I agree with you in that the Bible is God's Word and was written by the leading of the Holy Spirit. And about the belief in miracles, you are reading words typed by a modern-day miracle. I should be dead right now. Yet here I am, and it's only by God's grace, mercy and healing. Just because the Bible is already written does not mean He is not still the same God written about in the Bible and still in the miracle business. I praise Him that He is!!!!

    I see the word religion used in a very negative way on hubpages which saddens me. I don't really concentrate on the doctries of my denomination because I don't feel that we will be divided by denomination in Heaven. I feel all who accept Jesus as Savior will all be as one when we get there. My church doesn't really teach doctrine much. I use the word doctrine to describe the small things that make our denomination different than others. You know, Baptist, from Methodist, from Church of God, etc etc. We teach straight from the Bible about how to be saved, which is our main mission as said in Matthew. I don't think the small things that seperate one group of believers in Christ from another should be something that divides us. So, I may believe something different from you, big deal. As long as we agree on how to get to Heaven, which is through believing in Jesus Christ and accepting Him as Savior, then the small things don't matter so much. At least they don't to me.

    1. Ben Bush profile image60
      Ben Bushposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I was wondering which "Jesus" you were referring to. What exactly is your "doctrine" of Jesus?

      1. allshookup profile image62
        allshookupposted 15 years agoin reply to this

        All this time I thought you were well read on the Bible. But, since you asked me, here is your answer: There is only one Jesus. He is the living Son of the Living God who was born of a virgin, died on the cross and was resurrected and now is in Heaven getting ready to come get those who are saved (recieved Him as Savior) and take us Home to Heaven. I have seen so many times on here people say 'your god' or 'my god'. But, there is only one God and one Mediator between God and man and that is Christ Jesus. His name is not alah, or budda, it is God. God the Father, God the Son (Jesus Christ) and God the Holy Spirit.

        1. Ben Bush profile image60
          Ben Bushposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          I asked the question in response to your statements concerning "Doctrine." SInce you specifically mentioned Jesus, I asked about your doctrine about Jesus. The Apostle Paul warned about believing in "another Gospel and another Jesus", a Jesus and gospel which was not according to the Scripture. Modern times inform us that there are actually many Jesuses. I was simply asking which one you were trusting in and proclaiming.

          BTW, I pray that your prognosis is good. Blessings.

          1. Andrew0208 profile image58
            Andrew0208posted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Ben, may I simply address on that issue of Jesus. There's only one JESUS CHRIST meaning the Messiah. The Lord of Lords. Some times I wonder why the play of Religion by some religious folks will want to omit the full identity of Christ as it is contained in the Bible,(Scriptures).

    2. Song-Bird profile image68
      Song-Birdposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Well said, although I see different denominations within Christianity separate from the many religions out there.  I agree that all who believe that Christ died for our sins will be saved.

      1. profile image0
        James Agbogunposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Then, what if he does not believe but lived a life without sin, even better than those who belived?

        1. Andrew0208 profile image58
          Andrew0208posted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Religion has failed but the Bible(Scriptures) remains the power of God unto salvation to them that believe.

  6. Make  Money profile image66
    Make Moneyposted 15 years ago

    Yeah miracles still happen.  Some of them are recorded and seen by a lot of people too.

    1. Ben Bush profile image60
      Ben Bushposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      The problem may not be miracles, but discerning the power behind them.

      1. Andrew0208 profile image58
        Andrew0208posted 15 years agoin reply to this

        All you need to have in you to know the power behind any miracle is the Spirit that raised Jesus Christ from death. Religion will doubt it but the Bible(Scriptures) shows how to work out miracles by the power of the Holy Ghost. The devil is already defeated by the resurrection power.

  7. Andrew0208 profile image58
    Andrew0208posted 15 years ago

    Something very interesting to learn and note, about the woman  recorded in the Bible who was caught in the very act of adultery by religious fanatics, cheats and hypocrites. Think about it. Wow! There encounter with Jesus showcased Religion and the revealed Truth, they tend to defend, did you observe their standing generally?  For it was vivid for all to witness the true Law which is LOVE. Happy weekend!

  8. aka-dj profile image67
    aka-djposted 15 years ago

    One definition that distinguishes religion from (true) Christianty, that has helped me over the years is as follows;

    Religion is man's atempt to connect with God
    where-as christianity is God coming down to man to make that connection.

    His ways are higher (and therefore better) than our ways.

    No religion can truly connect man to God, because sin stands in the way.
    Jesus solved that problem,making Him the ONLY way to God.

    1. Andrew0208 profile image58
      Andrew0208posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Religion is generally political in nature. Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life. Hypocrites do enjoy and play religion, they are right there in the church. The Word is alive and active in all generations. The Word works!

    2. mohitmisra profile image61
      mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Jesus is a Prophet like Zaratushtra,Buddha ,Mohammed,Guru Nanak etc
      Christianity is a religion like any other. smile
      Jesus is not the only way to God. smile

      1. aka-dj profile image67
        aka-djposted 15 years agoin reply to this

        I quote
        John 14:6  Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
        Either He is Or He is not!
        I choose to believe Him over you.

        1. mohitmisra profile image61
          mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          SANT KABIR

          GREAT REWARD”
          THE HOLY BIBLE


          THE HOLY QURAN

          What if I am Jesus?

          1. aka-dj profile image67
            aka-djposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            The real One spoke of (many false ones) coming in His name in the last days.
            There's a few here on Hubpages. Some god(s) too.
            Stay with poetry. You have a real gift there. Seriously!

            1. mohitmisra profile image61
              mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this

              The last prophet Guru Nanak was a spiritual poet.:)currently ranked 2 in the world till date in relgious poetry is not luck or fraud.was 1 a little while ago. smile

              1. Eaglekiwi profile image74
                Eaglekiwiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Who ranked him?

        2. profile image0
          ColdWarBabyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Believe what you like. Just stop trying to force your fundamentalist fanaticism on everyone.

          1. Andrew0208 profile image58
            Andrew0208posted 15 years agoin reply to this

            What do you believe in?

          2. kewly profile image60
            kewlyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Jesus is not the only way to God but those who choose to believe it feel comfortable because of their ego-illusions. How sad, to idolize Jesus when he came here to show us what he can do, we can do. People just can't accept that they too can become Christed beings that can transcend this illusion of reality. Lets all use our intution rather then the  lies we've been brainwashed with since we were young!

            1. ElElyone profile image61
              ElElyoneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

              "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

              "Jesus is not the only way to God"

              You just called Him a liar then.

          3. ElElyone profile image61
            ElElyoneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Nobody forced you to read it man. smile

  9. daeemomin profile image60
    daeemominposted 15 years ago

    The first thing that one should know and clearly understand about Islam is what the word "Islam" itself means. The religion of Islam is not named after a person as in the case of Christianity which was named after Jesus Christ, Buddhism after Gotama Buddha, Confucianism after Confucius, and Marxism after Karl Marx. Nor was it named after a tribe like Judaism after the tribe of Judah and Hinduism after the Hindus. Islam is the true religion of "Allah" and as such, its name represents the central principle of Allah's "God's" religion; the total submission to the will of Allah "God". The Arabic word "Islam" means the submission or surrender of one's will to the only true god worthy of worship "Allah" and anyone who does so is termed a "Muslim", The word also implies "peace" which is the natural consequence of total submission to the will of Allah. Hence, it was not a new religion brought by Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) I in Arabia in the seventh century, but only the true religion of Allah re-expressed in its final form.
    Islam is the religion which was given to Adam, the first man and the first prophet of Allah, and it was the religion of all the prophets sent by Allah to mankind. The name of God's religion lslam was not decided upon by later generations of man. It was chosen by Allah Himself and clearly mentioned in His final revelation to man. In the final book of divine revelation, the Qur'aan, Allah states the following:
    "This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion". (Soorah Al-Maa'idah 5:3)

    "If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah (God) never will It be accepted of Him" (Soorah Aal'imraan 3:85)

    "Abraham was not a Jew nor Christian; but an upright Muslim." (Soorah Aal'imraan 3:67)

    Nowhere in the Bible will you find Allah saying to Prophet Moses' people or their descendants that their religion is Judaism, nor to the followers of Christ that their religion is Christianity. In fact, Christ was not even his name, nor was it Jesus! The name "Christ" comes from the Greek word Christos which means the annointed. That is, Christ is a Greek translation of the Hebrew title "Messiah". The name "Jesus" on the other hand, is a latinized version of the Hebrew name Esau.
    For simplicity's sake, I will however continue to refer to Prophet Esau (PBUH) as Jesus. As for his religion, it was what he called his followers to. Like the prophets before him, he called the people to surrender their will to the will of Allah; (which is Islam) and he warned them to stay away from the false gods of human imagination.
    According to the New Testament, he taught his followers to pray as follows: "Yours will be done on earth as it is in Heaven".

    Since the total submission of one's will to Allah represents the essence of worship, the basic message of Allah's divine religion, Islam is the worship of Allah alone and the avoidance of worship directed to any person, place or thing other than Allah.Since everything other than Allah, the Creator of all things, is Allah's creation; it may be said that Islam, in essence calls man away from the worship of creation and invites him to worship only its Creator. He is the only one deserving man's worship as it is only by His will that prayers are answered. If man prays to a tree and his prayers are answered, it was not the tree which answered his prayers but Allah who allowed the circumstances prayed for to take place. One might say, "That is obvious," however, to tree-worshippers it might not be. Similarly, prayers to Jesus, Buddha, or Krishna, to Saint Christopher, or Saint Jude or even to Muhammad, are not answered by them but are answered by Allah. Jesus did nottell his followers to worship him but to worship Allah. As the Qur'aan states:
    "And behold Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary Did you say to men, Worship me and my mother as gods besides Allah He will say-"Glory to you I could never say what I had no right (to say')" (Soorah Al-Maa'idah- 5:116)

    Nor did he worship himself when he worshipped but rather he worshipped Allah. This basic principle is enshrined in the opening chapter of the Qur'aan, known as Soorah Al-Faatihah, verse 4:
    "You alone do we worship and from you alone do we seek help".
    Elsewhere, in the final book of revelation, the Qur'aan, Allah also said:

    "And your Lord says:"Call on Me and I will answer your(prayer)."(Soorsh Mu'min 40:60)

    it is worth noting that the basic message of Islam is that Allah and His creation are distinctly different entities. Neither is Allah His creation or a part of it, nor is His creation Him or a part of Him.
    This might seem obvious, but, man's worship of creation instead of the Creator is to a large degree based on ignorance of this concept. It is the belief that the essence of Allah is everywhere in His creation or that His divine being is or was present in some aspects of His creation, which has provided justification for the worship of creation though such worship maybecalled the worship of Allah through his creation. How ever, the message of Islam as brought by the prophets of Allah is to worship only Allah and to avoid the worship of his creation either directly or indirectly. In the Our'aan Allah clearlystates:
    "For We assuredly sent amongst every people a prophet,(with the command) worship meand avoid false gods " (Soorsh Al-Nahl 16:36)

    When the idol worshipper is questioned as to why he or she bows down to idols created by men, the invariable reply is that they are not actually worshipping the stone image, but Allah who is present within it. They claim that the stone idol is only a focal point for Allah's essence and is not in itself Allah! One who has accepted the concept of the presence of God's being within His creation in any way will be obliged to accept this argument of idolatry. Whereas, one who understands the basic message of Islam and its implications would never concede to idolatry no matter how it is rationalized. Those who have claimed divinity for themselves down through the ages have often based their claims on the mistaken belief that Allah is present in man. They merely had to assert that although Allah according to their false beliefs, is in all of us, He is more present in them than in the rest of us. Hence, they claim, we should submit our will to them and worship them as they are either God in person or God concentrated within the person.
    Similarly, those who have asserted the godhood of others after their passing have found fertile ground among those who accept the false belief of God's presence in man. One who has grasped the basic message of Islam and its implications could never agree to worship another human being under any circumstances. God's religion in essence is a clear call to the worship of the Creator and the rejection of creation-worship in any form. This is the meaning of the motto of Islam:
    "Laa Elaaha lllallaah" (There is no god but Allah)
    Its repetition automatically brings one within the fold of Islam and sincere belief in it guarantees one Paradise.
    Thus, the final Prophet of Islam is reported to have said, "Any one who says: There is no god but Allah and dies holding that (belief) will enter paradise".(Reported by Abu Dharr and collected by Al-Bukhaaree and Muslim).

    It consists in the submission to Allah as one God, yielding to Him by obeying His commandments, and the denial of polytheism and polytheists.

    There are so many sects, cults, religions, philosophies, and movements in the world, all of which claim to be the right way or the only true path to Allah. How can one determine which one is correct or if, in fact, all are correct? The method by which the answer can be found is to clear away the superficial differences in the teachings of the various claimants to the ultimate truth, and identify the central object of worship to which they call, directly or indirectly. False religions all have in common one basic concept with regards to Allah. They either claim that all men are gods or that specific men were Allah or that nature is Allah or that Allah is a figment of man's imagination.
    Thus, it may be stated that the basic message of false religion is that Allah may be worshipped in the form of His creation. False religion invites man to the worship of creation by calling the creation or some aspect of it God. For example, prophet Jesus invited his followers to worship Allah but those who claim to be his followers today call people to worship Jesus, claiming that he was Allah!
    Buddha was a reformer who introduced a number of humanistic principles to the religion of India. He did not claim to be God nor did he suggest to his followers that he be an object of worship. Yet, today most Buddhists who are to be found outside of India have taken him to be God and prostrate to idols made in their perception of his likeness.
    By using the principle of identifying the object of worship, false religion becomes very obvious and the contrived nature of their origin clear. As God said in the Our'aan:
    That which you worship besides Him are only names you and your forefathers have invented for which Allah has sent down no authority: The command belongs only to Allah:
    He has commanded that you only worship Him; that is the right religion, but most men do not understand ". (Soorah Yoosuf 12:40)

    It may be argued that all religions teach good things so why should it matter which one we follow. The reply is that all false religions teach the greatest evil, the worship of creation. Creation-worship is the greatest sin that man can commit because it contradicts the very purpose of his creation. Man was created to worship Allah alone as Allah has explicitly stated in the Our'aan:
    "I have only created Jlnns and men, that they may worship me"(Soorah Zaareeyaat 51:56)

    Consequently, the worship of creation, which is the essence of idolatry, is the only unforgivable sin. One who dies in this state of idolatry has sealed his fate in the next life. This is not an opinion, but a revealed fact stated by Allah in his final revelation to man:
    "Verily Allah will not forgive the joining of partners with Him, but He may forgive (sins) less than that for whom so ever He wishes"(Soorah An- Nisaa 4:48 and 116)


    Since the consequences of false religion are so grave, the true religion of Allah must be universally understandable and attainable, not confined to any people, place or time. There can not be conditions like baptism, belief in a man, as a saviour etc., for a believer to enter paradise. Within the central principle of Islam and in its definition, (the surrender of one's will to God) lies the roots of lslam's universality. Whenever man comes to the realization that Allah is one and distinct from His creation, and submits himself to Allah, he becomes a Muslim in body and spirit and is eligible for paradise. Thus, anyone at anytime in the most remote region of the world can become a Muslim, a follower of God's religion, Islam, by merely rejecting the worship of creation and by turning to Allah (God) alone-It should be noted however, that the recognition of and submission to Allah requires that one chooses between right and wrong and such a choice implies accountability. Man will be held responsible for his choices, and, as such, he should try his utmost to do good and avoid evil. The ultimate good being the worship of Allah alone and the ultimate evil being the worship of His creation along with or instead of Allah. This fact is expressed in the final revelation as follows:
    "Verily those who believe, those who follow the Jewish (Scriptures), the Christians and the Sabians any who believe In Allah and the last day, and work righteousness *hall have their reward with their Lord;They will not be overcome by fear nor grief (Soorah Al-Baqarah 2:62).

    If only they had stood by the law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side. There Is from among them a party on the right course; but many of them follow a course that Is evil.". (Soorah Al-.Maa'idah 5:66)


    The question which arises here is, "How can all people be expected to believe in Allah given their varying- backgrounds, societies and cultures? For people to be responsible for worshipping Allah they all have to have access to knowledge of Allah. The final revelation teaches that all mankind have the recognition of Allah imprinted on their souls, a part of their very nature with which they are created.
    In Soorah Al-A'raaf, Verses 172-173; Allah explained that when He created Adam, He caused all of Adam's descendants to come into existence and took a pledge from them saying, Am I not your Lord? To which they all replied, " Yes, we testify to It:'
    Allah then explained why He had all of mankind bear witness that He is their creator and only true God worthy of worship. He said, "That was In case you (mankind) should say on the day of Resurrection, "Verily we were unaware of all this." That is to say, we had no idea that You Allah, were our God. No one told us that we were only supposed to worship You alone. Allah went on to explain That it was also In case you should say, "Certainly It was our ancestors who made partners (With Allah) and we are only their descendants; will You then destroy us for what those liars did?" Thus, every child is born with a natural belief in Allah and an inborn inclination to worship Him alone called in Arabic the "Fitrah".
    If the child were left alone, he would worship Allah in his own way, but all children are affected by those things around them, seen or unseen.
    The Prophet (PBUH) reported that Allah said, "I created my servants in the right religion but devils made them go astray". The Prophet (PBUH) also said, "Each child is born in a state of "Fitrah", then his parents make him a Jew, Christian or a Zoroastrian, the way an animal gives birth to a normal offspring. Have you noticed any that were born mutilated?" (Collected by Al-Bukhaaree and Muslim).
    So, just as the child submits to the physical laws which Allah has put in nature, his soul also submits naturally to the fact that Allah is his Lord and Creator. But, his parents try to make him follow their own way and the child is not strong enough in the early stages of his life to resist or oppose the will of his parents. The religion which the child follows at this stage is one of custom and upbringing and Allah does not hold him to account or punish him for this religion.

    Throughout people's lives from childhood until the time they die, signs are shown to them in all regions of the earth and in their own souls, until it becomes clear that there is only one true God (Allah). If the people are honest with themselves, reject their false gods and seek Allah, the way will be made easy for them but if they continually reject Allah's signs and continue to worship creation, the more difficult it will be for them to escape. For example, in the South Eastern region of the Amazon jungle in Brazil, South America, a primitive tribe erected a new hut to house their main idol Skwatch, representing the supreme God of all creation. The homage to the God, and while he was in prostration to what he had been taught was his Creator and Sustainer, a mangy old flea-ridden dog walked into the hut, The young man looked up in time to see the dog lift its hind leg and pass urine on the idol. Outraged, the youth chased the dog out of the temple, but when his rage died down he realized that the idol could not be the Lordof the universe. Allah must be elsewhere. he now had a choice to act on his knowledge and seek Allah, or to dishonestly go along with the false beliefs of his tribe. As strange as it may seem, that was a sign from Allah for that young man. It contained within it divine guidance that what he was worshipping was false.
    Prophets were sent, as was earlier mentioned, to every nation and tribe to support man's natural belief in Allah and man's inborn inclination to worship Him as well as to reinforce the divine truth in the daily signs revealed by Allah. Although, in most cases, much of the prophets' teachings became distorted, portions remained which point out right and wrong. For example, the ten commandments of the Torah, their confirmation in the Gospels and the existence of laws against murder, stealing and adultery in most societies. Consequently, every soul will be held to account for its belief in Allah and its acceptance of the religion of Islam; the total submission to the will of Allah.
    We pray to Allah, the exalted, to keep us on the right path to which He has guided us, and to bestow on us a blessing from Him, He is indeed the Most Merciful. Praise and gratitude be to Allah,the Lord of the worlds, and peace and blessings be on prophet Muhammed, his Family, his companions, and those who rightly follow them.
    Author: Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips

    1. Andrew0208 profile image58
      Andrew0208posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Hi daeemomin,

      You see, Religion is a Big problem in humanity today! Why? It's highly political and selfish in nature. It's a pity that the play of religion and it's political antics among many belief and doctrines in the world seem to many as if they are defending Almighty God.

      You rightly said that Abraham wasn't a Christian. I wonder how he can ever be a Christian.
      The word "Christian" was generated by Non believers in Jesus Christ who carefully observed the followers of Jesus Christ, and eventually named them Christians(Followers of Jesus Christ, the body of Christ). It will also interest you to know and participate on the following thread "WHO IS A CHRISTIAN"

      The play of Religion has denied many Christians the Spirit and the Power in the Word of God(The Scriptures) John 6:63, John 10:35. Why? It's the play of Carnality, whereby some people think they're defending God but I tell you, get to their hearts, you will 100% see that they're far from God and His Love.

  10. lionswhelp profile image69
    lionswhelpposted 15 years ago

    Just as it was in the days of Noah so shall it be in these last days, Matthew 24:37-39.

    So much religious confusion has caused many to lose the "Way" to Enternal life!

    I also believe Jesus Yahshua is the only "Way" to God the Father, John 14:6-7. Jesus said if you want eternal life you will have to go through him for there is no other "WAY". It is evident that before the flood not many where called and only few where chosen. Hence only 8 people survived. Jesus Christ was not yet given for them

    But thanks be to God the Father, John 3:16-17 Jesus Christ will come and rule over us. Then we will be At-one-ment with God and each other, Levitcus 26:27-32. This Day has yet to be fulfilled! So we humans are still afflicted with many false religions of mankind's making and Satan's deceptions, John 8: 31-32,40-47.

    The Feast of Trumpets is another day which has to be fulfilled yet in the very near future. This pictures Yahshua the Christ, Jesus coming to the earth to save his Christian followers and the Remnant of the House of israel and the House of Judah along with the Gentiles that will survive into the Millenium. See: 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; Leviticus 23:24-25; Zechariah 14:1-9;
    Revelation 5:10; Revelation19,20,21,22; Isaiah 66:7-24. only God's Holy Word Jesus the Christ is able to reach out to a deceived human kind and offer them this"WAY" to Eternal life.

    There is no other 'Religion' except this 'One Way' given to us by Jesus Yahshua the Christ. All others fall on their faces before this one. The Redemption of Israel and all Christians that follow the "Way" of God is through only Jesus the Christ, John 14:6-7 .All other ways are tools of the Devil which could lead to eternal death if not repented of now or after Christ returns. See, Leviticus 23:36- The 8th Day or Last Great Day follows after the Millenium. Here all those deceived by Satan, Reveation 12:9 will be able to repent and work out their salvation for the first time. Those who chose and follow this "WAY" will be given Eternal life! Those that refuse will receive Eternal death along with Satan and all the other unrepentant sinners since Jesus came and gave His life for you them.

    No other religion can give you this "WAY " of Jesus Christ. There are some who claim to be Christian but serve another "christ" , 2 Corinthians11:4. That teaches a different message about going to heaven. This one is the Babylonian Mystery religion mentioned in Revelation 17:5 & 18:1-5 that Satan has used to deceive human kind since the days following Noah's Flood. So there you have it!

    True Christians win with the Redeemed House of Israel and House of Judah who will be united  together at Jesus Christ Yahshua's return, Romans 11:26-27. There is no other way, John 14:6-7. If you want eternal life Keep His Commandments, John 14:15. Because Jesus is coming soon, Revelations 22:7,12-13-17, 20-21.

    The Lionswhelp

  11. Make  Money profile image66
    Make Moneyposted 15 years ago

    So lionswhelp are you saying that you don't believe there is a Heaven?  Heaven is mentioned 608 times in the Bible.

    What do you think of this web page on the Chosen?


  12. lionswhelp profile image69
    lionswhelpposted 15 years ago

    Hey Mike,

    Of course I believe in Heaven. There are three the heavens, one around our planet, the heaven of the universe and the Third heaven where God the Father now lives. This is where the New Jerusalem is now. If you read Revelations 21:1-3, you will a see that the Heaven where God lives is coming down to this earth after the 1,000 year Millenium, Revelastion 20:4--5. If you read Revelation 5;10, this verse shows that those that now  are called will rule on the earth in the Land of Israel at Jerusalem. This also is mentioned throughout the Old Testament Scriptures like Zechariah 14:1-9 7 Isaiah 66:18-23.

    The Lionswhelp

    1. Make  Money profile image66
      Make Moneyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Yeah Lionswhelp after the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, the ancients that are now in Heaven will reign on the new earth and God will be with man living in the new Jerusalem that will come down out of Heaven.

      Quite the different picture than what a lot believe.

      The last verse in Isaiah 66 which is verse 24 doesn't paint a pretty picture for those that have transgressed against God, does it.

      See in Zacharias 14 from verse 16 to 19 it talks about keeping the feast of tabernacles.  And in Revelations 21 verses 21 to 25 talking about the new Jerusalem it says there is no temple because the Lord God Almighty is the temple, and the Lamb.  I believe both are making reference to where Jesus asked us to eat his Body and Blood for it is the Bread of Life in John 6 from verses 47 to 67.

      Don't you agree?

      Here's the King James Bible if you'd sooner read the above verses from it.

      If the above is the case then the only way to receive the Bread of Life is through the Sacraments of an organized Christian religion from ordained ministers or priests.  This wikipedia mentions some Christian denominations that offer the Sacrament of the Bread of Life.

      I think this is a fairly strong case for religion but I don't think religion should be put against the Bible because they go hand in hand.  There wouldn't be one without the other.


  13. lionswhelp profile image69
    lionswhelpposted 15 years ago

    Many are called but few are chosen, 1Peter 2:9; Mat 20:16. These are the ones called down through history that have the Holy Spirit in them, John 3:3-8. These will be resurrected at Christ's second coming. God has not chosen the many at this time, though he offers the gift of life to all. They are really the ones whether Jew or Gentile that will be in the First Resurrection. The rest of human kind will just have to wait. There are many distractions that can keep a person from making it now. God is the one who knows each of us individually. some would flinch at persecution and be affraid to change. The one that endures to the end will be saved.

    There are many persecuted Christian today in China and around the world who are suffering now but the vast majority are blind to any calling now. But be of good cheer Christ has overcome the world for us, John 16:33. Jesus never said a persons calling would be the easy way that some think. We can expect tribulation and persecution just like the rest of the people called before us, it will take a lot of faith Hebrews 11:1--40. The one key to God's plan of salvation is tied up in Jesus Christ and God's Holy Days, Leviticus 23. If you know these you can understand God's Plan very well. Find a people that keep them and you can certain God is calling them now, well almost. Some of the Orthodox Jews keep them but they do not see Christ in them..


  14. lionswhelp profile image69
    lionswhelpposted 15 years ago

    Not necessarily! When you speak about religions which do you mean? The Church Jesus founded for us on Calvary when he bought Christians with his blood? This world as we know it is now I filled with many different religions which are not from God but have their origin doctrines of men These include many so called Christian Churches with different doctrines that are contrary to what Jesus taught, Matthew 15:7-9.

    Satan the devil has his churches that are of his doing not God's they may claim that we all worship the same God but we do not. Most religions are based on the Babylon Mystery religion with many of the same deities in them all. These all started after Noah's Flood with Nimrod and his mother Semiramus. These two names have been instrumental down through most religions even into today. They had other names perpetuated down throgh history like Osirus and Isis, Balaam, Budda and the many Greek gods have their origin from them in some way starting at Genesis 1)8-9 & 11:1-4.. This Babylonian apostacy will culminate as is in mentioned in Revelation 17:3-6 & 18:1-8. This lady is a modern day type of Nimrod's mother Semiramus or Jezabel the mother of harlots.

    So now which religion do you believe can offer you Eternal life. The religions of today that will tell you we must get to heaven, Atheism, Islam. How about  those claiming to be the Church of Jesus Christ but really follow a different god that the apostle Paul warned the early Christians about in, 2 Corinthians 11:4. Jesus caled his Church a little flock, Luke 12:32, that the religions of this world have persecuted since 31 A.D.. Find that Church become part of it and I promise you, that you too will be persecuted. See: Revelations 2 & 3 and Revelations 12:13-17. It is very interesting to find that even in the early eras of the Church of God there were major problems even in them. They were always under attack from Satan the Devil, Revelation 12:9 and his false religions.

    Cheer up Christ will return and will restore his nation of Israel. The Saints will be the rulers of these Israelite and Gentiles. The survivors will be converted along with all born during the 1,000 years under Christ rulership. This is a sure thing the followers of Christ will win, Revelations 22:12. There will not be any other religions but this one.

    1. mohitmisra profile image61
      mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      There will not be any other religions but this one" Muslims say the same thing.What is means is the essence the truth will be victorious.there is but one God and Hindus, Mulsims and Christians are brother religions.:)Look at the similarity its astounding.

    2. Make  Money profile image66
      Make Moneyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Lionswhelp it sounds like you read Malcolm Smith?  I may be wrong?  I don't agree with everything he says but I like how he uses the Old Testament to reveal what is said in the New Testament, which it is meant for.  I agree with a lot of what he says.  Especially where he says this referring to the materialistic world we live in.

      Referring to this, at this time we see on television that the markets around the world are still falling.  It seems that no matter how much money the governments throw at the system people and even banks have not regained confidence in the system.  They might but that's yet to be seen.  Also a couple of months ago Al Gore said that if we do not stop using internal combustion engines that burn fossil fuels within ten years we will have done irreparable damage to our planet.  And now we see on television that the big three auto companies in the US may go belly up without government bailouts.  That could be because they have consistently shelved alternatives and were late moving to hybrids.         

      I think we are already living in the thousand year period, don't you think?  A thousand year period is talked about in Revelations chapter 20.


  15. lionswhelp profile image69
    lionswhelpposted 15 years ago

    No not yet Mike. Do you see Jesus yet with all his Saints with him? It's getting close to that time, we human seem intent on killing ourselves off. Hang on this will not be easy. No I never read a book like that. Only the Bible and other articles that point in that direction.

    1. Make  Money profile image66
      Make Moneyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      No I don't see Jesus with all his Saints yet.  The Saints are in Heaven with the first resurrection, that of the soul.  But Revelations 20 does say the angel comes down from Heaven to bound and cast satan into the bottomless pit for a thousand years.  Catholic teachings believe that happened at the time of Jesus' Crucifixion.  This is no proof but if you seen Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ it shows satan in the bottomless pit after the Crucifixion.  A thousand years represents from that time until satan is loosed for a little time to lead the armies of Gog and Magog against the church of God.  When Jesus with all his Saints defeat them the books and the book of life are opened and the dead are judged by those things which were written in the books, according to their works.  We are close to this.  Now don't say come out of her because I am a Catholic. smile

      Oh I see Lionswhelp, I couldn't find Semiramus in the Bible so I did a Google search and found the writings by Malcolm Smith.  I realize now what you mean by referring Semiramus and Nimrod to Osirus and Isis, Balaam, Budda and the many Greek gods and Molach and even today with the god of the Da Vinci files crowd.  I hope you are not including Mary in that group though?  That's basically why I asked you if you read Malcolm Smith, cause he was kind of going that way.  I haven't read all of Smith's stuff yet though.  I see you mentioned Leviticus 23 in one of your previous posts which also talks about keeping the feast of tabernacles plus the Sabbath and the Passover.  The Passover is not recognized in the English language but Easter is Pascha in Greek, Pesach in French, Pascua in Spanish, Pasg in Welsh, Pask in Breton, Paskha in Russian, Pääsiäinen in Finnish, Paask in Swedish and on.  The month of April used to be called Easter in the Germanic dialects and English is a derivative of the German languages.  You know, because Easter falls within the month of April most of the time.  We keep the Sabbath on Sunday because the Resurrection of Jesus was on a Sunday.  I probably don't need to tell you all that though.  Yep we are getting close to that time.  But the man of sin has to come first as we see in 2 Thessalonians 2.

      1. Lady LaShonda profile image75
        Lady LaShondaposted 15 years agoin reply to this

        I have to disagree about Jesus resurrecting on Sunday. I will just say these few statements and leave it up to you to research. Constatine changed the Hebrew calander(which we should follow today) to the Gregorian calander. He also had a part to play in the Nicean Council. It was a popular thing to do to make the Sabbath fall on a Sunday. BUT if you study the Bible, it never said exactly what day the Sabbath fell on. Get a Hebrew calander and we will all see what day is the Sabbath.

        Food for Thought. Jesus was crucified on the Passover. Passover supposed to be on Friday Night into Saturday evening. According to the Law they took the body down Saturday night after the Sabbath, after the Passover. Jesus ressurected 3 days later. Lets count. Saturday night to Sunday night is day 1. Sunday night to Monday night is day 2. Monday night to Tuesday night is day 3. How could he have resurrected on Sunday according to our calander is beyond me. THE MATH DOESN'T ADD UP.

  16. Make  Money profile image66
    Make Moneyposted 15 years ago

    This is a big story about why the Julian calendar was changed to the Gregorian calendar.  It all has to do with when Easter falls within the year.  The date on which Easter was being celebrated was drifting slowly forward with the Julian calendar.  It has something to do with the Easter festival falling on "the day when the Jews put away the leaven", the 14th of the lunar month of Nisan.  This wikipedia touches on why it was changed to the Gregorian calendar.

    You are right.  The gentile converts held their religious meetings on Sunday, the first day of the week (Acts 20:7; 1 Corinthians 16:2) and with the disappearance of the Jewish Christian churches this day was exclusively observed as the Lord's Day.  I imagine that is why Easter is held on Sunday as well.  There is a Mass held every day in Catholic Churches.  What day do you think we should change the Lord's Day and Easter to? smile

    In your previous post you say "Catholics are either orthodox or unorthodox steming from the Roman traditions that came well after the death of Christ."  I'm not sure what you mean by that.  Are you trying to say that Roman Catholics are not orthodox? smile Up until around 300 AD Christians (who were Catholic from the start because the word catholic just means universal in Greek) met in peoples homes or outside because they were being persecuted first by Jews and mostly by the Roman Empire up to then.  Constantine I stopped that because his mother Helen was a Christian, then he converted, some say on his death bed.  The Eastern Orthodox Church separated in 1056 mostly because they thought the Holy Spirit just stems from the Father and not the Son.  I'd say both the Father and the Son, wouldn't you?  But some came back to Roman Catholicism just before the Reformation in the 1500s and are known as the Eastern Rite of the Catholic Church.  About half way down this wikipedia page on Christianity there is a time line of the major branches within Christianity.

    I'm not sure what you mean by this either, "In fact the first religion that opposed the Hebrew Jews was Islam."  The first Christians were Jews.  If I can remember correctly, without looking it up I'm sure the apostles converted about 3,000 Jews after they received the Holy Ghost, which is referred to as the first Pentecost.  But Jesus did speak pretty harshly against the Jewish Pharisees and Sanhedrin, as did his apostles.  Some Jews of today follow the Kabalah, that's where it comes from.

    Lady LaShonda you say you are nondenominational.  But if you have a flock that you preach to from your pulpit would you not say that you have started your own new denomination?


  17. lionswhelp profile image69
    lionswhelpposted 15 years ago

    Well Mike,

    I too was a Catholic but was asking, seeking and knocking and the door was opened to me as a young man. God choose me for their own reasons. I'm not one of their smartest son but I do comprehend Jesus Christ now because I now understand why he gave his life for me. My  understanding has sky rockeyed in the last twelve years faster than the previous 35. Yes, I was a Catholic for about 28 years and went to church regularly but was reading the Bible to make sure what they taught was true, a Berean, Acts 17:10-12, in attitude.

    One Sunday morning in Church and Old Friend of our Family, a Monsignor at this time got up and preached a sermon about the Anti Christ coming to destroy the Catholic  Church and all its Statues. I just happened to have opened to Revelations 19 at the Time and could plainly see that he was wrong. The one he accused of being the Ant- Chtrist was really Jesus the Christ, Yahshua the Messiah. Ouch, this was when I left and found a Christian Church. If I had not been reading and making a comparison this would have gone right over my head. See, I found that Jesus is the only Way to the Truth. My old friend the Monsignor was wrong.

    When I prayed to God my own prayers Then  I had many of them answered. When I tried the Catholic way and used a Catholic Priest in the Confessional Box I got nothing. Now I can go direct to God my Heavenly Father and ask in Jesus Name for forgiveness and for more wisdom and understanding. I have been given what I asked for with my cup running over as long as it is asked in Jesus Christ's name. I worship a Personal God that hears me and corrects me and will never forsake me. I no longer need a Pope or a priest in a Catholic Church to be my intercessor. Glory Halleluyah!

    A non-denominatianal Church means one who has no ties to a big main Church like one of the Protestant Churches or Catholic Church were that smaller little Church doesn't get it's doctrines from them. More like the Church Jesus founded in 31 A.D. not in 325 A.D. under Constantine. This is very interesting when you realize though Constantine gave permission for  Sunday Churches in the Roman Empire he later, before he died was baptized an Arian Christian.

    The Arians were from Dr. Arius who was 7th Day and so are many of his followers are today with different variations. Also Dr.Aruis' opponent Athanasius of that same year 325 who taught the Trinity opposed to Dr. Arius teaching that God created Jesus and Jesus created the Holy Spirit, was also a 7th Day Christian. This is true. How, Dr.Aruis and Athanasius who were 7th Day were able to influence Constantine a Sun -Day worshipper is really interesting. Ohh, by the way Athanasius' Trinity differed from Dr.Arius's in that he taught that all members of the Godhead were equal and always existed. Most Catholics still stick with St. Athanasius. I know there is a lot of confusion on these matters in many churches today. I found it better to listen to Jesus Christ and follow his example and with the help of the Holy Spirit have the discernment to recognize where the truth comes from, Romans 8:26-27, John 14:6-7, 25-26...

    The Lionswhelp

    1. Make  Money profile image66
      Make Moneyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Yeah a lot of Jehovah Witness try to claim that they used to be Catholics as well.  But when you get talking to them you realize that they know very little about being a Catholic too.

  18. Make  Money profile image66
    Make Moneyposted 15 years ago

    Lionswhelp the Arian Heresy is one of the oldest in the Church.  If you don't want to read about it from the Catholic encyclopedia you can from this wikipedia about Arianism.  It seems you guys have given this heresy a different twist than the Jehovah Witness.

    A non-denominational church is still a new denomination.  How many fractions from the Whole does the world need.  The Bible says to be one body in Christ in Romans 12:5, Colossians 3:15, 1 Corinthians 12:12, Ephesians 3:6, Galatians 3:28, Romans 12:4 and more.

  19. Andrew0208 profile image58
    Andrew0208posted 15 years ago

    Happy new week Mike. This subject of Christians of various denominations claiming theirs are first, better or more likely to be holier or whatever, is a play of religion and it's politics. The Bible says "To whom that is joined to the living God, there's hope, a living dog is better than a dead lion" Walking with Jesus, means walking in Love, Faith and Power Not Religion.

    1. Make  Money profile image66
      Make Moneyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Yeah I suppose I shouldn't have said that Andrew but I did because of a reply that he gave me on his Hub.  I was the only person that had posted on his Hub so I imagine he was directing a reply back to me.  Within that reply he was telling me that the idea of "once Saved always saved" is not true.  He said he used to be a Catholic for 28 years but if he was a Catholic for 28 years he would have clearly known that the idea of "once Saved always saved" is not a Catholic belief.  I'm telling you Andrew I hear it all the time, they used to be a Catholic but then they are proven wrong with their words.  So you are right Andrew, it is a play of religion and it's politics.

      Priests and Bishops are not perfect.  They are just men, that can error too.  Lionswhelp you mentioned the Illuminati in someone else's Hub.  Well about 200 years ago a letter surfaced that showed that the Illuminati had plans to infiltrate the Catholic Church to slander and subvert it.  I have no doubt in my mind that it has happened.  They have already infiltrated all other religions and governments.  As far as masonic symbols being on the last two Popes caskets, well I would have to see that in person to believe it.  Probably just another Illuminati fairy tale.  But you never know, a lot of Catholics are wondering why the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart has not been done properly yet when it should have been done by 1960.  Now it's relegated to the past.  And as far as Bishops shuffling priests to different parishes when they were in grave error I clearly see a problem with that too.  Neither those priests or those Bishops should be in the service of God, especially the Bishops that shuffled them to other parishes.  In Revelations 12:4 it says that the red dragon's "tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven".  Well this is not Catholic belief but I have read from Catholic sources that the stars could represent Bishops.  So there is a concern with Catholics as well.

      If all other religions and governments are under the control of the Illuminati then I'd have to say the same thing as Peter said to Jesus in John 6:66 to 68 when Jesus ask "Will you also go away?" and Peter replied "Lord, to whom shall we go?"  I want to continue to receive the sacraments as mentioned in John 6:54, John 20:23 and other parts of the Bible.  As far as the third part of the stars that the dragon sweeps away, well like Matthew 7:20 says "by their fruits you shall know them."  We are in a bleak period in the history of mankind Lionswhelp but will lead to a good one.  That's why I'm staying right where I am.  I'd be very leary of Arianism.  Here's Epistles on Arianism and the Deposition of Arius from the Fathers of the Church if you care to read it.


  20. lionswhelp profile image69
    lionswhelpposted 15 years ago

    Well Mike , This may be true but the mystery religion was a mystery to me. I found my paracheute in Christ and bailed out.

    There are many types of trinities in the world, even Dr. Arius had a trinity but he had it wrong.
    The babylonians had a trintiy and so did the Egyptians, India had two, Greeks and Romans so the teaching of a trinity is not new even though the ones mentioned were pagan.

    It was Tertullian a Church Theologian of the 2nd Century who coined the word Trinity from reading New Testament manuscripts. Though Jesus Christ did not use the word trinity he set examples to show that there are three Being in the Godhead.
    It was some of Dr Arius'disciples that taught Semi- Arianism or Binitarism dualiism. Also Gnostic have a good and evil theory of dualism..Gnostic also taught that the God of Israel (The one who became Jesus the Christ) was and evil god. These people believe that only few (They mean themslves) have the right knowledge and are to have control over every one else.

    This is where we are today. The few have gained control of religions and politics in order to bring a New World Order of their doing. The Catholic Church that was Trinitarian has been taken over by many Gnostics. Example the Last two Popes who died had Mason Symbols on their caskets. Many USA Pesidents have been Masons. They have gained control over societies by the rich bankers and merchants and have influenced everyone including the RCC to the hurt of everyone else. This is not new it happened on a grand scale in the Middle Ages and is repeating itself again, right under our noses.

    Only Jesus Christ can stop it before we wipe ourselves out. So much for this side of Noah's flood which has become just like itr was in Noah's day. It is easy to see why God expressed remorse about creating human kind before the Flood.. We are crazy people with an Evil god Satan the devil leading us on to our destruction. But God will bring us through it all because his purpose for us stands firm. Jesus will put this world on the right track forever.

  21. lionswhelp profile image69
    lionswhelpposted 15 years ago

    Hey Mike,

    That idea Once Saved always saved seems to have come from Protestant teachings such as Lutherans or Calvinist. I should have made this clearer to you. Also I went back and checked out what Isaid about the last two Popes, John Paul 1 andJohn Paul 2. Thanks for questioning
    what I said. It has been awhile since I reviewed this topic.

    Only one of those two had the Masonic symbols on his casket. This was John Paul 2. John Paul 1 actually was a good Pope known as the 'Smiling Pope'. He did not last long 33 days? before he died. There seems to be a cover up on how he died. This Pope was about to get rid of all the priest in the Vatican that were Freemasons. He was about to make some real big reforms on how the Vatican and the Catholic Church should be conducted for the better..

    I am not an Arian nor a Semi-arian I subscribe to the Godhead of Father- Yahovah, The Son- Yahshua and Ruach HaKodesh the Holy Spirit. I have known Jehovah witnesses and do not care for what they teach. They are really misguided  and not get them rightSemi- Arian Dualist.

    Although my old friend the Catholic Monsignor helped me 'Out' by what he said in his sermon I bear no ill will to him. He also was used to answer a prayer for me when I was about 4 or 5 years old. I look forward to sitting down with him in the future and thanking him for putting me on the right track. He was a man who dedicated his whole life in service to God and God will be his judge as to what he did or did not do. I'm not his judge or yours. I'm just thankful that he was in the right place at the right time.

    The Lionswhelp

    P.S. If you will check your browser about Skull and Bones symbols on John Paul 1 and John Paul 2, you will see what I mentioned about them. Only one of them had these symbols on his casket. If there where any others that had these symbols I will have to do more research.Thanks again for reminding me to take another look. When we get older there is a tendacy to forget things and not get things right...

  22. knolyourself profile image60
    knolyourselfposted 15 years ago

    "New PBS series exposes Old Testament fairy tales" … sion_bible

  23. Make  Money profile image66
    Make Moneyposted 15 years ago

    Thanks Lionswhelp

    Oh I understand now after reading your previous post on Arius about a half a dozen times. smile  You are saying "This is true" about Athanasius teachings, not about Arius.  That's good.  I'm glad you don't follow Arianism.  I owe you an apology then.  Sorry pal.

    I've read quite a bit about the skull and bones, illuminati, masons, rosicrucians, knights templar, knights of malta and all that crap.  Enough to make you sick.  And now Oppy and the Di Vinchi files crowd have another Catholic slander movie due to air next year.  I'm not going to bother with them any more.  You are right when you say it's better to listen to Jesus Christ and follow his example and with the help of the Holy Spirit have the discernment to recognize where the truth comes from.  Put your trust in God's hands and let Him lead you.

    God bless

  24. lionswhelp profile image69
    lionswhelpposted 15 years ago

    Hi Lady LaShonda,

    I am happy to know you. I apreciate omen that minister for Jesus the Christ. My  wife andI are Egalitarians who believe in the equality of men and women in the Priesthood of Jesus Christ, 1 Peter 2:4-10 & Galatians 3;28-29.

    In my research on Neo Platonism which was from the Greeks I found that the Kabalah has been passed down to us from Simon Magus, Acts 8:9-10, the first Gnostic. It is his gift to Christians and Jews by it's various names. They are also very anti- Jesus Christ and have a lot to do with Jerusalem and the Jews today. They are usually composed of Freemasons who more than likely will rebuild the temple in Jerusalen for the coming false Messiah. These Mason have alread built a new Supreme Court in Jerusalem which has many Masonic symbols in it. Most of these Jews are socialist or communistic in their beliefs

    The Orthodox Jews in Israel , are 20% of the population, and in Jerusalem reject the socialist and avoid them like a plague and will not join their army. Even Moshe Diyan the famous General of the Six Day War was a communist Jew. He gave the Temple Mount back to the Palestinians. I hope this will help you.

    Come and visit my Hub. My subject is about "What is Wrong with The Churches Today!" I will pointing out three critical areas that cause Churches problems today. Seeing Hearing, Listening to Christ &The Holy Spirit and Why the the Other 1/2 of Christ ministry -Woman- are left out and kept from their calling in many Churches. I would like your input if you have the time. Especially when I get to God's calling about  'Women'!

    The Lionswhelp

    Check out my links if you have time, there will be some nice surprises for you there.

    The Lionswhelp

    1. Make  Money profile image66
      Make Moneyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Yeah the new Sanhedrin has been re-established.  The utensils for the sacrifices in the temple have been build.  Some christian zionist on a US farm are breeding cattle so the red unblemished heifers can be sacrificed in the temple.  The third temple is suppose to be built on the site of the Temple Mount in Jerusalem where the Dome of the Rock and the Al-Aqsa Mosque sits, which is the third most holiest site in Islam.  All this can be found with a Google search.  This is mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4.

  25. Andrew0208 profile image58
    Andrew0208posted 15 years ago

    Very profound analysis. Enough theology and religious history indeed. What great impact has it to the human Spirit?

  26. lionswhelp profile image69
    lionswhelpposted 15 years ago

    There is a Pentecostal Minister Erwin Baxter who says the animal sacrifes have already begun without the Temple's construction. It may take awhile for Temple to be put in place.

    There is a Jewish Architech in Jerusalem who said the Temple may be built in the area between the Dome of the Rock and the Alasqah Mosque. This maybe a compromise with the Moslems, but it maywell be the right place after all. This spot is on the other side of the Jewish Wailing Wall.

    It is interesting that Ariel Sharon wanted to start construction near the Dome of the Rock. He had the cornerstone building blocks ready to be put in place, but his buddy Yashir Arafat would not let him. It will not take long to build theTemple since everything needed has been prepared ahead of time. After this is done the count down will begin, but when the animal sacrifice stops the beginning of the great Tribulaton will begin.

  27. Make  Money profile image66
    Make Moneyposted 15 years ago

    Yeah the Temple Mount in Jerusalem where the Dome of the Rock and the Al-Aqsa Mosque sits is suppose to be where Salomon's Temple sat (the first temple) and also where Herod's temple was rebuilt when the kingdom of Judea returned from the exile in Babylon (the second temple).  That's why they want to build the third temple on this site.

    I forgot to mention that I have also read that apparently the chair that every English monarch was coronated on from the time of Edward the first is ready to be placed in the temple for the false messiah to sit on.  It's not actually the chair but the stone that sits under the chair that is important.  This stone was stolen from the Scots in the 1200s by Edward 1 who was known as the Hammer of the Scots.  The stone goes by a few names; Stone of Destiny, Stone of Scone, Coronation Stone, Jacob's Stone, Jacob's Pillow, Tanist Stone or the Highland Scots and Irish refer to it in Gaelic mostly as Lia Fail or also clach-na-cinneamhain or clach Sgàin.

    Lia Fail has quite the history.  It is suppose to be the stone that Jacob laid his head on from Genesis in the Bible.  It was suppose to have been brought by some of Jacob's descendants from either Egypt or Greece, depending on the story you read, on this strange journey that ended in Spain to an area known as Gallacia.  Then from Spain they migrated to Ireland with the stone.  It is said each High King of Ireland or Ard Ri was coronated while sitting on the stone at Tara and if the right king was picked the stone would roar in joy.  At around 500 AD Lia Fail was taken to Scotland by St. Colombo.  St. Colombo was in line to be Ard Ri but he passed on it.  Some say Lia Fail still sits on Tara so either there's two parts to it or the story got confused.  Anyway Lia Fail ended up at Scone hence the name Stone of Scone.  The Scottish monarchs were crowned at Scone while sitting on the stone up until the time that Edward 1 stole it.  In 1996 the stone was returned to Scotland and sits in Edinburgh Castle, no doubt close to one of the Scottish Rite of the Knights Templar masonic lodges.  Anyway if you do some research on Jacob's Stone you will find umpteen different versions.  Interesting though.

  28. Make  Money profile image66
    Make Moneyposted 15 years ago

    Lia Fail has great importance here because it connects back to the Milesian Dynasty which stems back to Milesius prior to 1699 B.C.  Milesius was the leader of Jacob's descendants in Spain before they migrated to Ireland.  Milesius descendants became the Kings that were coronated on Lia Fail at Tara.  But as I mentioned the story of Lia Fail takes a twist when Edward 1 stole it from the Scots in the 1200s.

    What makes Milesius important is the fact that he and his people made this journey before the time of Solomon.  And even more important the journey took place before the time that the 10 lost tribes of the kingdom of Israel fall to the Assyrians.  So Jacob's descendants that originally traveled to Spain that also became the descendants of Milesius could very well have been comprised of all 12 tribes of Jacob.  This means that millions of the descendants of Milesius that are on this planet right now and a lot are Christians could very well be of all the 12 tribes of Jacob.

    Lionswhelp or anyone I have a lot more to share about this if you are interested.


  29. lionswhelp profile image69
    lionswhelpposted 15 years ago

    Very interesting Mike,

    I also have a lot of these facts of history. If I get a chance to start a new hub in the future I will
    also show hubbers where a lot of this information can be found. History is almost a lot stranger then fiction. Until then I will continue to show 'What is Wrong With The Churches Today' on my Hub.


  30. Make  Money profile image66
    Make Moneyposted 15 years ago

    Well continue to try to show what's wrong with the Churches of today if you feel you need to but I think you should keep in mind what I mentioned above, that we are to be one body in Christ.  You wouldn't want to eventually realize that you are doing the bidding of the illuminati.

    I posted this in another thread which is related to what we have been talking about so I'll just copy it here.

    The Crown of England became part of the Milesian race through King Henry the II (1133 – 1189) by his mother Maude, of lineal decent from Fergus Mor MacEarca, first King of Scotland, a descendant of Heremon.  But Edward 1 had to sit on Lia Fail so he stole it.

    See they thought the Milesian race was divine.  I'm not sure if they still think this but once an English monarch was coronated on Lia Fail they actually thought they were a god.  It's interesting here to note that the Romans did not even attempt to invade Ireland and they built Hadrian's Wall to keep the Scots out.  But the Milesian race was not divine, they were just Jacob's descendants so God may have taken care of them a little more then like their relatives.  Do you understand why Edward 1 stole the stone, Lia Fail from the Scots in the 1200s now?  Maybe he didn't read the commandments, especially thow shall not steal.

    Besides the twist that Edward 1 put to it when he stole Lia Fail there's another twist to the story.  Queen Anne (1665 – 1714) the last of the House of Stuart died without a surviving issue.  About 53 rightful claimants to the throne were passed up to pick George 1 of the House of Hanover a Germanic royal dynasty.  And there were other twists throughout history.  George 3 was king during the American Revolution.  So following the line didn't seem to be that important.

    Anyway the Coronation Stone or Lia Fail is suppose to be placed in the third temple once it's built for the false messiah to sit on.  And the story goes that he will come from this line of the Milesian race.


  31. lionswhelp profile image69
    lionswhelpposted 15 years ago


    I will continue but only to show where the problem comes from, Revelation 12:9. I'm sure the Illuminati will not like me exposing them. But this is part of waking people up to Satan's game of annihation of human kind. Cry aloud lift up your voice like a trumpet and tell my people their sins. No time to shrink back and hide. Yes, Icould get martyred by the NWO & RCC for doing so. So what, Christians win, Satan and his NWO lose.

    The Lionswhelp

    1. Andrew0208 profile image58
      Andrew0208posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Very interesting, Mike. Profound indeed. More light! No weapon formed against you will ever prosper. Isaiah 54:17. Christ in you is the hope of glory. You're never alone, hope you know that?

  32. Make  Money profile image66
    Make Moneyposted 15 years ago

    I was wondering when the RCC attack would come.  Post your slander like the illuminati and I will reply.

  33. lionswhelp profile image69
    lionswhelpposted 15 years ago

    The Illuminati is part of Esua's Church already. Freemason's galore!


  34. Andrew0208 profile image58
    Andrew0208posted 15 years ago

    Hi Mike, Christ in you is the hope of glory. You're never alone. No weapon formed against you will ever prosper in Jesus Name, Amen. You're energized now by the Power of the Holy Spirit. Amen.

  35. Make  Money profile image66
    Make Moneyposted 15 years ago

    Thank you Andrew.  I posted about the Milesian race because the Bible says the 144 thousand are suppose to be of the twelve tribes.  But the 10 lost tribes that had fallen to the Assyrians proposed a problem.  Seeing Milesius was a descendant of Jacob and they were in Spain and Ireland before the 10 lost tribes had fallen to the Assyrians, then no doubt this is where some of the 144 thousand will come from.  And a lot of them have been Christians for at least 1500 years.  Now compare that to the state of Israel of today.  The story of the false messiah coming from the British Royal House is just a rumor but it does seem to fit with the overall story.

    In 1949 parts of Jerusalem were captured by Israel.  In 1967 during the 6 day war the Old city of Jerusalem was captured by Israel.  Yashir Arafat, the previous Palestinian leader and Pope John Paul II had talks a few years back and both agreed the city of Jerusalem should be an international city, like the 1947 United Nation Partition Plan for Palestine originally proposed.  This would have put a damper on zionist plans to build the third temple where the Dome of the Rock and the Al-Aqsa Mosque sits, so Israel did not agree.  The fact that Yashir Arafat and Pope John Paul II had these talks kind of contradicts some of the things that Lionswhelp is saying on the previous page.  Don't believe everything you hear these days, rumors abound.


  36. lionswhelp profile image69
    lionswhelpposted 15 years ago

    Yes that is true Mike,

    And I have researched these things out very well. There are things I'm sure that you do not know about Arafat and Pope John Paul 2. There is Jewish researcher named Yair Davidiy that can trace the decendants of Esua to the Romans and the Church of Esau, the RCC. Hard to believe for some but no doubt it is true!

    Do you remember Jacob's twin brother Esau, Genesis 25:21-26,27-34. Isaac gave him blessings also, Genesis 27:30-40. His sons and daughters have spread over the earth just like the Tribes of Israel. There has always been this conflict of interest between these two brothers and there descendants.

    The Lost Ten Tribes or the House of Israel and the House of Judah or the Jews have been in conflict with Esau for centuries. Many of Esau's children have also migrated north and west into Greece,Germany, Italy, Austria. Alexander the Great, Julius Ceasar, Constantine the Great came from Esau. Even men like William Jefferson Blythe (Clinton, a devote Catholic) can be traced back to Nero.

    It's all there if you want to see it on paper. Check out Yair Davidiy on your browser or if they will let me give you his web page on this forum it is, Yair has a bunch of well researched books that will give you the facts. I was surprised myself when I read them. I always wondered where the Romans came from. Now I know what the coming revival of the Holy Roman Empire is about. It is Esau's final attempt to wrest back his birthright from Jacob.

    The Lionswhelp

  37. Make  Money profile image66
    Make Moneyposted 15 years ago

    You don't actually believe that crap do you Lionswhelp.  I remember running across a group in a voice chat room a couple of years back that were trying to proselytize the same idea.  Clearly a Jewish perspective seeing ancestry means so much to them.  When I mentioned that ancestry doesn't matter any more (Galations 6) and that Jesus died on the cross for anyone that will accept Him they got all irate and kicked me out of the chat room. lol

    If you believe this so called Jewish researcher then you'd have to believe that the Christian world, which took off mostly in Europe, in some of the countries you mention was formed by the descendants of Esau.  Well like I said, ancestry doesn't matter any more but that is a stretch of the imagination if you ask me.  The fact that they are desperately trying to find the lost 10 tribes to make up the 144 thousand kind of suits your pre-millennial thousand year idea doesn't it.  Sorry God's coming Kingdom will be for more than a thousand years and I believe most of the 144 thousand saints are already in heaven.  No doubt, like you say, it will be someones final attempt though.

    This quote from the site you posted should give you a good indication where they are coming from cause it reeks of zionist supremacy. 

    They mention the Khazars on the site.  Well if you want to know who the Khazars are do a Google search for "The Thirteenth Tribe" and read the truth from a Khazar descendant.  Arthur Koestler in his online book says "In the 1960s, the number of Sephardim (Jews) was estimated at 500000.  The Ashkenazim, at the same period, numbered about eleven million. Thus, in common parlance, Jew is practically synonymous with Ashkenazi Jew."  Ashkenazi Jews are Khazar descendant.  Lionswhelp you should read this online book to find out who the Khazars are, in fact I dare you to. smile

    I hope they haven't got you to join their cabal yet or start reading the Talmud.  Lionswhelp that flower on the front of their web site looks very similar to a Rosicrucian seal.  Seriously.

    Now fess up Lionswhelp, you were never a Catholic for 28 years like you previously said, were you? smile


  38. lionswhelp profile image69
    lionswhelpposted 15 years ago

    You are right Mike,

    In heart I never was. Since that little episode on the packet boat to the ocean liner as we left Ireland for the USA back in 1940. God heard my prayer and made sure I would not be mislead in a Esau Catholic School. I always had a real adversion for any thing Catholic. I'm glad the Holy Spirit led me to be a seeker of truth through Jesus Christ and not some father in a confessional closet. Yet I still thank God for that Strapping Irish Catholic priest who helped be 'out' of that den of serpents twice.

    The one thing I have learned from Yair Davidiy is those of Esau support Esau's Church.

    Yes, I know the truth hurts some more than others. The Truth that comes from Jesus makes us free. I wonder why Catholics hate the book of Revelation chapters 17 & 18:1-4, 5-20? Do you know why?


  39. Make  Money profile image66
    Make Moneyposted 15 years ago

    Why would Catholics hate the book of Revelation 17 and 18.  It talks about the harlot and the fall of Babylon.  You do realize that the Talmud that your Jewish friends read is actually called the Babylonian Talmud, don't you?  And don't you realize that they follow the same religion as the Pharisees of 2000 years ago?  We know what Jesus called them in Revelations 2:9 and Revelations 3:9.

    This is how I replied to you earlier when you mentioned the fall of Babylon in Revelation 17 and 18.  Compare what I say below to Revelation 17 and 18.

    Lionswhelp obviously we now know that you think you, your friends and some Jews are going to rule the world for a thousand years when Jesus returns.  Or do you now subscribe to what the Jews think that it will be the first time their messiah comes?  And that is suppose to come before the tribulation, right?  Wrong, you and your friends will be bringing on the tribulations by placing the false messiah in the third temple.  Here's another quote from that Brit-Am web site.

    Right!  The so called "Lost Ten Tribes" will be required as a group to condone the ripping down of the Dome of the Rock and the Al-Aqsa Mosque so they can build the third temple to place their false messiah in.

    Lionswhelp you have fallen into the trap.  By helping them prepare to place their false messiah in the third temple you are actually pushing God's hand.  You are actually working for God's adversary.

    I bet you didn't do a Google search for Arthur Koestler's online book.  Well here it is for anyone else that wants to read it, The Thirteenth Tribe.  This book also mentions Gog and Magog.  "As expected, The Thirteenth Tribe caused a stir when published in 1976, since it demolishes ancient racial and ethnic dogmas.  At the height of the controversy in 1983, the lifeless bodies of Arthur Koestler and his wife were found in their London home.  Despite significant inconsistencies, the police ruled their death a suicide."  This online book will change your whole outlook on the world as it is today.

    Oh by the way, I did find a web site that names a person from the British Royal House that connects with the story of the false messiah.  But because it's still speculation I won't post it.  I believe we'll soon see.


  40. lionswhelp profile image69
    lionswhelpposted 15 years ago

    Have you read the Book of Obadiah yet Mike? No, I don't follow the Babylonian Talmud but I do believe the 1st Five Books of the Bible. They are about God's relatonship with Abraham , Isaac and Jacob.

    Well you can read  what you want and believe what you want. That's your choice and mind also. Controversy is good for the soul. There is nothing hidden that will not be revealed.

    Replacement theology doesn't change God's mind. The Church of Esau or RCC is not the Kingdom of God on earth today. This is a fictious idea that started from 413 A.D. to 426 A.D. in the Church of Esau (RCC).

    In it the RCC would have you believe that God has given up on the redemption of Isreal because he got rid of their kingdom for their disobedience. The Jews killed their Messiah and are rejected by God. This only leaves that organization formed in 325 A.D. as the only choice left. And organization that has removed the 2nd Commandment about idols and changed the the Sabbath Day to Sunday and replaced God's plan of salvation, Leviticus 23 with a pagan Easter and Christimas. No this will not work. Jacobs children will defeat Esau's children. All Israel wil be saved Romans 11:25-32. See again rRvelation 5--6, 16-18; Revelation 18:6-8..

    Read Obadiah 1-4 then  see 8--10: In that day, "declares the Lord , " will I not destroy the wise men of Edom, men of undersdtanding in the mountains of Esau? Your warriors. O'Teman, will be terrified, and everyone in Esau 's mountains will be cutdown in the slaughter. Because of the vilolence agaianst your brother Jacob, you will be covered with shame; you will be destroyed forever.

    Obadih15-18: " The Day of the Lord is near for all nations. As you have done, it will be done to you; your deeds will return upon your own head. Just as you drank on my holy hill, so all the nations will drink continually; they will drink and drink and be as if they had never been. But on Mount Zion will be deliverance; it will be holy and the house of Jacob will possess its inheritance. The House of Jacob will be a fire and the House of Joseph a flame; the house of Esau will be stubble, and they will set it on fire and consume it. There will be no survivors from the house of Esau.' The Lord has Spoken. This is God Stuff the good stuff!

    The Lionswhelp

  41. Make  Money profile image66
    Make Moneyposted 15 years ago

    We are starting to talk in circles Lionswhelp.  Did you not read this web site about the Chosen that I posted 3 weeks ago?

    It's not replacement theology.  How can it be called replacement theology "when Jesus Christ, Himself was born into the House of David? Both Mary and Joseph were from the House of David. Paul was from the Tribe of Benjamin. The Apostles and most of the first Christians were Israelites. So the roots of the multitude of decendants from those first Christians is from Israelites." 

    There is a smooth transition from the Old Testament to the New Testament.  The Old Testament is revealed in the New Testament.

    "This has been the theology of the last 2,000 years. Anything else is revisionist theology."  Yes your theology is revisionist theology Lionswhelp.  With your revisionist theology nobody in the last 2,000 years would have been saved.  Yet Jesus will return with His saints and angels.

    I also previously mentioned that the people that find there line in Milesian Genealogies from the Annals of the Four Masters can actually trace their line back to Adam.  Milesius was a descendant of Jacob.  And millions of those descendants of Jacob are members of God's Universal (Catholic) Church.

    So Lionswhelp when you threaten me about talking about the children of Jacob you should keep in mind that also includes God's Universal Church.

    No the Roman Catholic Church would not have you believe that God has given up on the redemption of Israel.

    And again I'll go back to the web site about the Chosen that I posted 3 weeks ago.

    The Catholic Bible has Elias in both Malichi and Romans, where the King James Bible has Elijah in Malichi.  Same story in both though.

    But Lionswhelp keep in mind that Romans 11:28, one of the verses that you mentioned does say this,

    The Jews of 2,000 years ago cried "Crucify Him, Crucify Him" but the Jews of today can not be held responsible for that.  Because of my sins I am as much responsible for the crucifixion of Jesus as anyone is.

    No Catholics do not worship idols Lionswhelp.  Do you have a picture of your loved ones?  If so then with your idea then you worship idols as well.  Now I'm kind of wondering what God will think of all the statues destroyed and churches burned in the old country.  Sometimes I think I'm talking to someone that puts on an apron to march in July celebrating the 300 year old Battle of the Boyne.  Get over it Lionswhelp, the Boyne River is in the Republic of Ireland now.

    The book of Obadiah talks about what God had to say concerning the people of Edom.  It starts with this from the KJB

    And verse 18 says this,

    "The nation of Edom is known to have existed back to the 8th or 9th century BC, and the Bible dates it back several centuries further. Recent archaeological evidence may indicate an Edomite nation as long ago as the 11th century BC, but the topic is controversial. The nation ceased to exist as a settled state with the Jewish-Roman Wars."

    Lionswhelp you may note that I don't talk bad about the Sephardim Jews.  In fact if you do a Google search for "Jews against Zionism" you'll find over 3,000 web sites published by Jews that do not support the state of Israel.  This is what one of them, the True Torah Jews Against Zionism has to say,

    The True Torah Jews Against Zionism seeks Sponsors for a Washington Times Ad.  This is cool, you should read it.  Good news for the U.S.

    Lionswhelp I really think you should read The Thirteenth Tribe.  It will open your eyes.

    And seeing that you immigrated from Ireland I might be able to find your line in the Milesian Genealogies if you want to tell me what your last name is?  You may be from the House of Jacob yourself.


  42. lionswhelp profile image69
    lionswhelpposted 15 years ago

    Well, Mike ,

    I all ready know where the Thirteenth Tribe is. The USA is that 13th Tribe, Manasseh. Is this what you mean. Benjamin was the 12th, Joseph was the 11th, Ephraim replaced Joseph as the 11th. The USA fufills the prophecy from Jacob in Genesis 48:17-20 for Manasseh.

    Of course the Rosicrucians also use the number thirteen along with the Masons and the Illuminati. That Rose on Yair Davidiy's website is the Rose of Sharon which has twelve pedals.  Some have Ten. The rose that the Luciferian Rosicrucians have is similar but has a cross in its center. Satan always has duplicates even with the Romans verses Israel..


  43. Make  Money profile image66
    Make Moneyposted 15 years ago

    Actually the rose on Davidiy's website has 13 pedals.

  44. lionswhelp profile image69
    lionswhelpposted 15 years ago

    Your right, Thanks'

    When you think about  Esau as the grandfather of the Romans, this gives a bigger picture of what really happened at the Cross. Here We see the Jews or Judah that represent Jacob getting the Romans who represent Esau to kill Jesus for them. Here two Hebrews children from Isaac joined together to kill God! If it was not so serious it would almost be humoreous. Once again Jacob's has conned Esau out of something they could of done right by not killing Jesus. As Oliver Hardy used to say to Stan Laurel," Well Stanely here's another fine mess you've gotten me into!"

    I will investigate Yair Davidiy some more anyway. I haven't been to his website in awhile.

    I will ask him if everything "red" refers to Esau Then what about the Rothchild name which means in German 'Red Shield". These are those rich guy "Jews"that have finanaced the State of Israel and Zionism all these years since the Balford Treaty and 1948. I wonder what his reaction will be. I've been here before and have trapped him on different issues. Just the same Yair is not perfect but he has some good insights on many things, Romans 3:1-4.

    Don't take it to hard about Esau and the RCC. They are there for a reason. Any time the descendants off Israel or the Jews screw up God lets 'Esau get on their cases. God raised up Pharaoh, the Assyrians, the Babylonians and Romans to do the hard dirty work at times but it was always for the purpose of punishing Israel and the Jews. It will be no different during the Great Tribulation with a United Europe and the Holy Roman Empire. There are some that just do not listen to Jesus or the Holy Spirit. This is why all nations are on this last big "crash" course.

    A "Revisionist', yeah, that sounds somewhat like me. But the Lord Jesus Christ has not changed his mind, Malachi 3:6-7. He will save a remnant of Israel because he said he will, Romans 9:16-29. Other wise he would just flush us all down the drain and start over, Genesis 9:8-11.


    I know about the Milesians too. Some of the Tribe of Dan went with them. This was before the Exodus. These Jews were from Zara one of Judah's sons. We are an old Celtic family and come from the Tribe of Dan ( Irish), but our ancestors were able to escape the Assyrian captivity by fleeing to Greece. Later they moved on to England and probably settle with the Dan-es in London. Later moved to Scota- land or Scotland and then later back to Manchester, England.

    1. Make  Money profile image66
      Make Moneyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Yeah Llionswhelp that would be a real good question to ask Davidiy.  No I don't take it too hard when the RCC is compared to Edom or Esau.  I just consider where it's coming from.  To tell you the truth I think Davidiy's web site is mostly hog wash.  I think Davidiy is a zionist trying to drum up support for the state of Israel and the building of the third temple.  This web site is one of the reasons why I say that.

      The Ten Lost Tribes of Israel

      I've had this web site bookmarked for a while but I just read it the other day.  I think you'll find it interesting.  It uses the scriptures to prove that there is no such thing as the 10 lost tribes.  It says,

      It says a remnant of the 10 tribes of the Kingdom of Israel returned to Judah before the Assyrian captivity and also a remnant returned from Assyria.  It says the remnant had to return to make up the 12 tribes before the prophecy of the coming of the Messiah could happen, the first coming of Jesus Christ.  The first coming of the Messiah fulfilled the promise made to Abraham as we see in Galatians 3:16

      The web site uses these verses in the Old Testament to prove that the story of the 10 lost tribes is a myth 2nd Chronicles 11:14-17, 2nd Chronicles 15:9-10, 2nd Kings 17:22-23, 2nd Chronicles 30:6, 2nd Chronicles 30:10, 2nd Chronicles 34:5-7, 2nd Chronicles 34:9, Ezra 7:12-14, Ezra 7:7, 2nd Chronicles 11:15-16, 2nd Chronicles 21:1-2, Ezekiel 37:16-17, Jeremiah 50:4-6, Ezra 6:17 and Ezra 8:35.

      All the above verses are also in Davidiy's Torah.  This basically proves to me that he is a zionist that is just trying to drum up support for the state of Israel and the building of the third temple.

      The web site also uses 17 instances in the New Testament to prove that the story of the 10 lost tribes is a myth.  Specifically it mentions the tribe of Aser in Luke 2:36

      And Paul spoke of a united 12 tribes in the present, when he spoke of the promise of Christ in Acts 26:6-7.

      And it also mentions the tribe of Levite in Acts 4:36.

      Amazing eh?  I find this quote from the web site above interesting.

      I say this on my page about the Chosen.

      The Israel of God are practicing Christians.

      Yeah in the end days God will still send Elijah (Elias), where he shall come for the conversion of the Jews.  Actually Lionswhelp the Milesian race was in Ireland long before the Assyrian captivity.  That's why I believe the race could include parts of all 12 tribes.

      What's your mother's maiden surname Lionswhelp?  We could be long lost relatives. smile


  45. lionswhelp profile image69
    lionswhelpposted 15 years ago

    Ohh, I forgot to add. My mother came from Ireland. She is the other half of God's plan for me. All humans are part of God's plan. Most to Eternal life and some eternal death.


  46. lionswhelp profile image69
    lionswhelpposted 15 years ago

    Yes, I have read ithings ilke that before. Of course they are wrong because Jesus Sent his disciples to the Lost sheep of Israel, Matthew 1O::9 & Matthew 28:18-20. If you will l look at Acts 1:6-7, the disciple asked Jesus if he would restore the Kingdom in his day. He said no. That they were sent to be witnesses to all parts of the world where israel would be scattered.

    Yair is only one of many researchers that can reveal where is Israel is. The Covenant Publishing Company Co. Ltd. or British Israel has a lot of information about the Tribes down to their exact locations. Another good source is E.Raymond Capt the Biblical Archelogist at the Artisen Publishers in Oklahoma.

    Capt has a number of videos that are very helpful. a real good one is about Joseph of Arimathea and Jesus Christ being both in Glastonbury, England together when Jesus was a young lad. This has do with those missing 18 years before Christ's ministry started.

    Both of these groups have web pages. I will to look for them for you.
    Also there is an interesting book by W.H. Bennett titled - "The Story of the Celto-Saxon Israel", Covenant Books, London, England . There is just so much out there to verify where Israel is today. The one place where Israel seems to be lost is in most church theologies.I have a book about this also but seem to have misplaced it somewhere.  These people seem to have more than Yair on the lost Tribes. I even have Charts to show when and how the 10 Tribes moved north and west, but so does Yair. British Israel and Yair do not always agree.

    Well, my mother is a Wright, Her father was a either a British soldier or Scotsman who married my grand mother a Catholic. My mother was born in Belfast, moved to the Irish Free State either before or during the Rebellion. She remembers the Black & Tans digging up their backyard looking for guns. One of my uncles smuggled a radio into Ireland so they could listen to what was going on. My wife did some research on the name Wright and found that it can be traced back to Jeremiah the prophet who brought king Zedekiah's daughters (the Jewish Phares line)to Ireland to marry into the Zara line of Judah. There is a lot of history in Ireland, Scotland and England where much of the Lost Ten Tribes settled.

    Hey, I found  a interesting webpage on Alex Jones' just yesterday. If you click the banner that says "Freemasonry  Revealed"  you will get a big surprise!


    1. Make  Money profile image66
      Make Moneyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      This is what the web site The Ten Lost Tribes of Israel has to say about Matthew 10.

      Jesus and His disciples didn't have to go searching for the lost sheep of Israel because some of them from all 12 tribes were right there 2000 years ago.  Jesus sent His disciples to the lost sheep of Israel, FIRST.  What you are saying here is extra-biblical, "That they were sent to be witnesses to all parts of the world where israel would be scattered."  Jesus said to his disciples to take his Word to all nations, not to just look for the Israelites in all nations.  Paul's ministry was mostly to non-Israelite gentiles.  And we see in Galatians 6:12-18 that ancestry doesn't matter in the New Covenant any more.  Yeah I've read the story of Joseph of Arimathea and Jesus in Glastonbury but I don't no whether to believe it though.  That's not a surprise, stories like that have been going on since Vatican II.


      1. profile image0
        sandra rinckposted 15 years agoin reply to this

        Out of curiosity, I do wonder if the missing tribes of people not being accounted for has anything to do with King Davids failure to listen to God when he took a consensus?

        However, I do think you are right about something Mike, that the seperation was from God, then again it does make me wonder about the question above.

  47. lionswhelp profile image69
    lionswhelpposted 15 years ago

    No so Mike,

    Even the Jews that went back to Jerusalen were only a small number of the captives about 50,000 including those from Esau. Most that were left behind were later dispersed north and west after their  Lost Ten Tribes relatives. They also went through the Darien pass  through the Caucus mountains. This pass even today is called the Path of Israel.

    Oh, I have a question for you? It has to do with what Jesus said to his disciple. He said he wanted them to go to the Lost Sheep of Israel that went into captivity 130 years before the Jews. Now do you believe what Jesus said and told them to do or are you like that other unbelievers that said they all went back to Israel. Are you calling Jesus Christ a liar?

    Even the RCC knew where Israel was in the days of King Henry the 8th. The tribe of Dan was in Ireland along with people from the tribe of Simeon and Judah. Why don't you listen to Jesus instead? Even the RCC does on some points.

    The Lionswhelp

  48. Make  Money profile image66
    Make Moneyposted 15 years ago

    Nobody is saying they all returned back to Israel.  At the time of King Henry the 8th everyone knew the Milesian race was descended from Jacob.  In fact King Henry the 8th knew he was from the Milesian race through Maude the mother of King Henry the 2nd (1133 – 1189). 

    If you are saying we should be trying to bring the Word of Jesus Christ to the Jews then you are right, just the same way we should be bringing the Word of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles.  Is there something extra that the Jews of today should know now, other than what the Gentiles should know?  I don't know what else you could be saying?  Both Jew and Gentile received the same Word of Jesus Christ 2,000 years ago.

    KJB Matthew 28:19 says,

    The Romans that Paul was speaking to were Gentiles.  In verse 8 Paul says that "Jesus Christ was (already) a minister of the circumcision (Jews) for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers".

    KJB Romans 15:6-21 says,

    Again in Romans 15:6 we see we should glorify God with one mind and one mouth, "one body in Christ" as mentioned in the top post on the previous page of this thread. 

    Romans 15:12 is referring to Isaiah 11:10.  The Old Testament is being revealed in the New Testament.  The Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible calls the Book of Isaiah, Isaias and it also reads Isaias in Romans 15:12 

    Romans 15:21 is referring to Isaiah (Isaias) 52:15.  Again we see the Old Testament is being revealed in the New Testament.

    Lionswhelp please show me in the Bible where Jesus "said he wanted them (His disciples) to go to the Lost Sheep of Israel that went into captivity 130 years before the Jews."


  49. lionswhelp profile image69
    lionswhelpposted 15 years ago

    Wel, Mike,

    If you will look at 2 Kings 17:12--18,20-23. the Lord here is the Being who became Jesus Christ. The Assyrians removed the House of Israel in 721 B.C. It was 135 years before  the House of Judah was removed by the Babylonians in 586 B.C.. Jesus was there and had this done and drove the House Israel out of Northern Israel, out of his sight as "He SAID" by His servants the prophets, for their Idolatry and Sabbath breaking, to this day, verse 23.

    Also James the Lord's brother said they were in the dispersion and scattered abroad, James 1:1-2. James would have known he was from the House ofJudah not the House of Isreal. So did Peter in 1 Peter 1:1, Matthew 10:6. The apostle Paul was sent to both the House of Israel and the House of Judah and Gentiles in his day.

    The Lionswhelp

  50. Make  Money profile image66
    Make Moneyposted 15 years ago

    The apostles were already to the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Matthew 10:6).  1 Peter 1:1 reads

    If you look at the bottom map here, dated 63 BC you'll see that Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia were all in or around what is now called the country on Turkey.  That's where some of Paul's and the other apostle's ministries were carried out. … _power.jpg

    I still don't know what you are getting at.  Is there something extra that the Jews of today should know now, other than what the Gentiles should know?  Both Jew and Gentile received the same Word of Jesus Christ 2,000 years ago, as they would today.


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