Is martyrdom a form of suicde?

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   SilentReedposted 14 years ago

   the church martyrs were given the choice of life if they renounce their faith. They chose to give up their life intentionally inviting death. Suicide is define as self -annihilation  whether by your own hands or by others IF YOU GIVE YOUR CONSENT.It also does not matter what the reason is. whether it is for honor,faith,belief,sickness,love.. .

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      Freeway Flyerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Some people go out looking for martyrdom. It's a way to make themselves feel holier. Ultimately, it is somewhat selfish; therefore, the goal is not self-annihilation.

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      Dave Mathewsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      
      
      
      
      Homicide is death at the hands of another. Suicide is death at your own hands, whether assisted or not. the key phrase is at your own hands. Martyrdum is Homicide death at the hands of another.

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      nightwork4posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      martyrs are an absurd realisation of the strength of religious brainwashing. if you can in any way justify trying to be a religious martyr , honestly you need help. blowing ones self up is suicide no matter what the reason is.

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   Lady LaShondaposted 14 years ago

   This is an interesting topic. My belief is that many will be slaughtered in the name of Jesus Christ. Most of the original twelve apostles were killed for preaching Jesus. Judas was the only one who committed suicide. Therefore he gave up his right to eternal life. He never had the chance to repent for betraying Jesus, thus the guilt of it, caused him to kill himself.
   
   Apostle John the Revelator was the only one who died naturally. And in the book of Revelation and a few letters of Apostle Paul, it said that we will be persecuted and killed for our faith in Jesus Christ. This is what we have to look forward to.
   
   Look at this....
   
   The holocaust of the Jews was horendous. I wouldn't want anyone to have to go through what they went through. Although they were deceived, they died for just being a Jew. This is what the Bible prophesied would happen to all those who believe in Jesus Christ in the last days. We would have a choice to make. Accept the mark of the beast or die in Jesus name.
   
   Most of us true believers will reflect on the sacrifices of those who came before us and glady lay down our lives. Jesus already laid down his for us, we will just be repaying him for his sacrifice.
   
   Plus...
   
   The blessing behind it is one to behold. Eternal life and reign with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and fellowship with God our Father, many of us can't wait...

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      Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      
      
      What a disgusting religion.

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      Don Wposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      If you had the choice, to say you don't believe in god or to die, which would you choose?

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         Don Wposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Was that a yes or no?

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         Lady LaShondaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I'd choose death...If I deny God here on earth, He would deny me in heaven. I'll give up my gift of eternal life with him if I choose to denounce my Lord.....

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            Don Wposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I know this is not strictly related to the thread title, but it's my understanding that as a Christian you believe god is all knowing, all powerful, perfectly loving, perfectly just etc. It's also my understanding that as a Christian you believe Jesus is the 'Christ' who suffered death and rose again on the third day in accordance with scripture, for your sins and the sins of the world. It's also my understanding that in the New Testament one of the disciples (Simon Peter) is said to have denied ever knowing Jesus three times, in fear of his life. He was bitterly ashamed, but is said to have been forgiven for his denial by Jesus himself.
            
            Given all that, would it not cross your mind at any point that if you denied your faith under threat of death, that by the teachings of your own belief, god would not 'deny' you. But would instead, according to those teachings, be more likely to forgive your human failing and embrace you. And actually deny the one who threatened your life and put you through the trauma of making that choice in the first place? The former a demonstration of perfect love, the latter a demonstration of perfect justice. Wouldn't that be more consistent with what you believe?

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      getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      
      
      Then you, clearly, worship DEATH!  What a morbid and deranged belief.  Until you can prove that there is eternal life, the only thing that we know to be waiting for you, at the end, is death.  And it is sad that someone has convinced you that you should keep looking forward to death...everyday.
      
      This Christian religion is a terrible psychosis.

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   WryLiltposted 14 years ago

   Is suicide a form of Martyrdom?

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   SilentReedposted 14 years ago

   I just want to understand why euthanasia is a "sin" and  willing to go to your death for your faith isn't. In both cases life was ended before it's time. Although for different reasons.

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      Lady LaShondaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I think that with euthanasia, you don't give God the chance to heal the disease to make a person whole again. Thats doubting his power to heal. God has more respect and love for those people who put their total faith and trunst in him to be God. When you die for your faith, its accepting a new life in him.

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         Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Never been to a doctor? Your god heals all of your ailments, broken limbs, etc.?

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         WryLiltposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I think your 'god' would expect you to be able to help yourself, as well.
         
         What, a really sick person who has almost no quality of life, is in constant pain and can't leave the bed should be forced to live on in that state? You try keeping your faith in that situation.
         
         Until you've been there you can't judge.

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            Lady LaShondaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I am in no way judging anyone for their decision to take their own lives because they can't handle the pain...
            
            However, I've seen may people, who were in that same pain, but yet held on to their faith in the Almighty Creator God the father to heal them...Needless to say, GOd has healed them and they lived to tell the story.
            
            I've been in situations where my faith was tested many times before. I became Job where everything was stripped from me including my health, and still I would never curse God...AND yes I live to tell the story...
            
            I can only declare from first and second hand experiences the resurrection power of my Lord and savior Jesus Chirst who is able to do above and beyond all what I may ask or even think. In him do I testify and bare witness to his saving grace and abundant life....
            
            I would not be here if it wasn't for him...AND neither would any of us...Morning by morning, he give us all new mercies. He gives us each day, because he is the breath of life. Without him breathing life into us each day, we all would be dead. But GOd is good, and his mercy is everlasting..and his truth endures through all generations..

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         Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Most often when euthanasia becomes a real consideration for a person... The person in question has already come to their day to cross over, BUT modern medicine has postponed that day.
         
           Then ...  One day ..  They realize ..  What was it all for.
         
           I'm definitely ready now. Please somebody!!!... stop the pain.
         
           That is the way I see the person requesting euthanasia.
         
         
            I guess that makes me cold hearted ??? Huh

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            stilljustwonderinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            No, cold hearted is forcing some one to live with unbearable pain.
            We know some one who was terminal and in pain.  He refused to eat or drink.  Was that wrong?  I don't think so.  He had suffered long enough.
            
            Wanting to keep some one in that shape is our selfishness.  Some times love, is letting go.

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         nightwork4posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         suffering non stop from an incurable disease is a great way to show faith. it's also a great way to prove the strength of religious brainwashing.

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   SilentReedposted 14 years ago

   If I confess and accept "Him" then commit euthanasia or have someone pull the plug. Then it's not a sin?

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      Lady LaShondaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Its a sin to take your own life. You did not create it therefore, you have no right to take it.

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         nightwork4posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         my parents created my life so if they give me permission to commit suicide because i have an incurable disease it's ok right?

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            Lady LaShondaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Your parents didn't give you life. They were the vessels used to bring forth your life. But your life began way before the foundations of this world was created. God knew you before you knew yourself. If it wasn't his breath of life, that wakes you up every morning, you would be dead.
            
            Trust God to heal all diseases. He can heal. Just have to have faith..

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   Lady LaShondaposted 14 years ago

   To add to my last reply....
   
   Jesus was wounded for our transgressions, bruised for our iniquities, the chastisement of our peace was upon him, and by his stripes we are healed...
   
   Jesus took every last ailment, disease, sickness, pain, etc...to the cross with him. He bled and died, so we wouldn't have to endure these things..
   
   If we are in divine intimate relationship with him, these things wouldn't be issues for us. Look to Jesus for all things and make your faith work for you...
   
   Jesus said if you have as little faith as a mustard seed, you can speak to any mountain in your life to be moved and it has to obey you...Same principle Jesus taught was the same that God did before the foundation of this world and eas implemented at creation...It can be done...

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   SilentReedposted 14 years ago

   lady LaShonda, you still haven't answer the question. Stick to the issue and please don't  preach. Thank  you.

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   SilentReedposted 14 years ago

   Lady LaShonda, Did the martyrs have the right to give up their life even though they were given the choice of life if they renounce their faith.  If life is sacred, shouldn't  that be more important than renouncing their faith? Thank you.

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   Jeff Berndtposted 14 years ago

   Seems to me, if you go looking for a chance at martyrdom, it's suicide just as much as jumping off a tall building is suicide. The problem is we humans can't know what's in another human's heart. That's reserved for God.
   
   I don't think that own hand = suicide, another's hand = homicide is really a good distinction. Intention (which, as I mentioned, is really really hard, if not impossible, for humans to measure) is the key.
   
   You may have heard of "suicide by cop," where the suicidal person goes and does something illegal, gets in a standoff, and then goes and does something stupid so the cops shoot him. Technically not suicide, because a cop shot him; he didn't shoot himself. But it's a particularly cowardly way to end one's own life: one doesn't have the guts to do it oneself, so one involves a total stranger, who will have to live with causing one's death for the rest of his life.
   
   Is that suicide or homicide? Or an accidental death? Or something else?
   
   A Christian zealot traveling to Iran, for example, and standing on the corner handing out Chick tracts, sure looks like he's hoping to get martyred.
   
   That looks more like suicide than martyrdom to me. But I can't possibly know for sure.

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      Lady LaShondaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Interesting point you made Jeff,
      
      According to the laws of this land, the police killing that person, would be ruled accidental death...They would rule it as such because they make the rules.
      
      To God, it was homicide, because we are taught not to murder..
      
      In this person's mind, it was suicide and you are right, he didn't have the guts to do it himself..
      
      Which brings me to my point. Considering the fact that he couldn't kill himself, he must have some conscience of life. He had to fear the consequences for his actions.
      
      Now I do believe, with every fiber of my existance, that as Christians we are to preach the gospel to all nations. This was our commission given to us by Christ Jesus. We were instructed to go into all the world, teaching all that he has commanded for us to teach, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Sure that Christian Zealot understands his commission, and take it very seriously. Therefore he is fulfilling his duty as a Christian. That is if he is sincerely preaching the Gospel according to Jesus Christ.
      
      It is his belief that he will be martyred for doing so. But the reward is by far better than the sacrifice. This is whay he believed, and most certaintly what I believe.

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         nightwork4posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         didn't jesus willingly die on the cross according to the bible. well that's suiced no matter how you look at it.

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            Lady LaShondaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Nightwork,
            According to the Bible in Isaiah, it prophesied how Jesus would suffer and die. I am sure you heard the scripture, "He was wounded for our tressgressions, bruised for our iniquities, the chastisement of our peace was upon him, and by his stripes we are healed."
            
            This scripture prophesied precisely how Jesus died. He was viciously beaten according to the Roman law. They call it scouraged. He was beaten with a whip-like weapon/device that had thorns on it. Imagine being whipped by this. Everytime, they scouraged him, the thorns took pieces of Jesus flesh with it.
            
            There were also other Old Testament Scriptures that could back this up. I'll be writing forever if I put them here...
            
            In New Testament, Jesus begged God not to let him suffer this kind of death. He prayed that this cup would pass him by. But the Lord saw fit to allow this upon Jesus for the sake of you and I. This is how much God loves us and Jesus loves us that much to lay down his life for us all....

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         Jeff Berndtposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         "that Christian Zealot understands his commission, and take it very seriously. Therefore he is fulfilling his duty as a Christian. That is if he is sincerely preaching the Gospel according to Jesus Christ."
         
         Sure, but he's doing it in the most ostentatious way possible, and didn't the Lord say something about not praying in the streets (as the hypocrites do)?
         
         How many people is this guy going to convert by deliberately provoking a deadly response? My guess? Not too many. But if he made friends with the locals and talked with them one-on-one about his faith and why it gave him strength, and why it's good to come to Christ, he'd probably make more converts. True, he'd be denied his blaze of glory (pun intended), but it's not about the zealot's glory; it's about God's.

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            Lady LaShondaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Hey Jeff,
            
            The bible does indeed teach us not to pray in the streets. Thats just something that should be done in private. Jesus said in secret. However preaching the gospel is totally different. Jesus preached in the streets and in the temle of Jerusalem. He also preached and taught in moutains and hills. And sure, even he knew he would suffer for it...
            
            IF this zealot has reached one soul out of this...He has made an accomplishment..You are right...people would accept the gospel better if shared instead of forced.

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    habeeposted 14 years ago

    I don't think martyrdom is suicide.

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    Flightkeeperposted 14 years ago

    I think more people shoud look up the definition of marty and suicide.  Too many posters are twisting themselves up in a knot to turn martyr into a suicide.  Strange.

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    SilentReedposted 14 years ago

    martyrdom - willingly dying for one's belief. Suicide - a person who kills himself  or cause his self annihilation.....how about for his faith or belief ? Pray tell me the difference.

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       Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Suicide you take your own life.  Martyr - you suffer death from someone because you will not renounce your religion, belief or cause.  If you can't comprehend that, then you've got a problem that I can't fix for you.

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    SilentReedposted 14 years ago

    You are right. I cannot comprehend it. in both cases you chose death over life. and if life is sacred, what is the difference?

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    SilentReedposted 14 years ago

    and if the church acknowledge their martyrdom and condemm suicide, isn't this a form of blatant hypocrisy?

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       Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Since you can't figure out the difference then it is a hypocrisy in your eyes.

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    SilentReedposted 14 years ago

    A church that speaks of the sanctity of life when it condemns suicide but give it's blessings to man of war and their war machines and say "Go and KILL for God and country isn't  hypocritical?

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       Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Again, if you can't see the difference between suicide and martyrdom, then it would be hypocritical in your eyes.  As for the Christian churches sanctioning war.  What planet do you live in?

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    SilentReedposted 14 years ago

    Mars

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    paarsurreyposted 14 years ago

    Is martyrdom a form of suicde?
    
    Martyrdom has nothing to do with a suicide. Martyrdom is forced to a person.

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       Jeff Berndtposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       But what if someone actively seeks martyrdom, does everything possible to provoke people he knows are already hostile to his God//religion/faith/what have you? Or deliberately travels to a place where such people are the overwhelming majority, and where persecution of 'infidels' is the law of the land, and starts the provoking?
       
       That looks pretty suicidal to me.

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    Jeff Berndtposted 14 years ago

    Here's a related question.
    
    Galileo, after publishing "Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems", was forced by the church to recant his support for a heliocentric solar system.
    
    Suppose for the sake of argument that Galileo had refused to recant and had ended up being killed by the inquisition instead of spending the rest of his life under house arrest.
    
    Would Galileo be a kind of martyr?
    
    
    “...And yet it still moves.”

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       pisean282311posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       the kind of humiliation Galileo had to go through can be said to be true martyr for sake of truth than others..he was forced to live such a life...i am glad church said sorry so what even after so many years..in a way it is sad that true servers of human race since humans came into being have time and again been tested...but scientist dont work for anything else than truth so they keep going...entire human race is indebted to science or else it wont have even survived till date...more powers to people like galileo...

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    paarsurreyposted 14 years ago

    Martyrdom is a witnessing for Truth.
    
    One does not offer for being killed.

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    SilentReedposted 14 years ago

    paarsurrey, hello friend .Could  you please explain what witnessing for the truth  means in relation to martyrdom  Do  you need to die if you are a witness for the truth?

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    earnestshubposted 14 years ago

    My answer to religion.
    Have a geek at wot it does to ya!!!!!!
    
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXUJLqgeuOA
    
    This could happen to you if you overdose!
    Just say no!

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       dutchman1951posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Earnest do not miss devine providence !!!!!.....lol
       I just saw the Vid;  you do know that guy could be on to something here;
       
       this could be how to answer  the "Question",
       
       Just what we are searching for. How to answer the Holy grail of Questions "Honey, Does my Bum look to big in this?".....lmao
       
       Dutchman

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          earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Nicely tied together there dutchman!

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