Which Religious Book Is True Translation?

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   Cagsilposted 14 years ago

   This post is just to make a point....
   
   Every religious person on the planet seems to think that the book of their religion is the true word of a god or his/her will.
   
   However, as many people have pointed out within their own words, they claim to understand it completely and live in it.
   
   But, I would like to point out that the books themselves were in an obscure foreign language, and that language created sentences that rarely made sense to anyone.
   
   The main reason for that is because each were created by unintelligent human beings barely conscious enough to learn.
   
   With that said- another problem seems to jump out and bite those who read either book, because the book has been for many years to have been open to interpretation.
   
   However, the books are not properly "translated" in the first place because of two reasons (a) a primitive language which did not have enough words to form coherent rational sentences and (b) has a religious connotation to them(parables and metaphors).
   
   So, how does one tell if their book has a true translation, NOT interpretation.
   
   You are more than welcome to fight among yourself. I'm planning on writing a hub on it, so as to finally put to rest the pathetic bickering and arguments about what book is best to read.
   
   But do enjoy discussing it amongst yourself. I've a hub to write.

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      Deaconessposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      When it comes to the bible, if one wants to 'best' translation, they should learn to read from the original languages, and read from the Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek manuscripts.

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         Deaconessposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         "the" best translation, I mean...

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         Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Actually, hundreds of thousands of translation has already been done. The research required to decipher which is accurate, requires to understand that it doesn't stand alone. It needs more information such as history(world, ancient and religious), so as to best understand the timeline of the translations.

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            Deaconessposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            What I'm saying is, instead of trying to figure out which existing translation is most accurate, one can learn the languages, and of course the history, and do their own translation. It does require a LOT of research, and even of manuscripts that are not canonized and of literature that have nothing to do with the bible, but that is what I prefer to do, myself.

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               Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               You have one big, fairly HUGE problem.
               
               You forget your history.

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                  Deaconessposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  What do you mean?

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                     Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     I mean, not ALL of Jesus' works were put into Christianity. And, the Church(Catholic) destroyed 4 Canons which were located and translated, because they didn't fit scripture, because they were not about religion.

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                        Deaconessposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        That's why I said we should do research "even of manuscripts that are not canonized and of literature that have nothing to do with the bible."

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                           Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           However, believers don't believe anything outside of their religious belief, because most of them are not consciously aware too many things have been hidden from them.
                           
                           It's about time they learn the things they do not know about their sad religion.
                           
                           And for those folks who believe in god, but don't believe in religion...well they will die out of the human species over time and then there will be no god or belief in one.
                           
                           Once religion is truly denounced as the false garbage it is, then humanity will finally move on.

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                           brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           Then you have little faith in god to produce a book which is called HIS word. God opened cannonization and god closed it. I have read most all psuedopigrapha and apocalyptic books and they are either rubbish or good history reading but certainly none i have read are an inspired work of God. The flow is wrong, there are doctrinal contradictions. We can't just pick and choose what we want, it has to be backed up by gods word. In fact i use just the king james and i and others have never felt the need to outsource. If we outsource we take the risk of having a blended christianity and not a pure belief.

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                              Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              Too bad Christianity isn't the true book.
                              
                              Half the scriptures written were copied from one person to another, word for word. And, a good portion of them were written 60 years after Jesus was executed, only because the disciples began to die off.
                              
                              So please...

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                                 brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 again you didn't read.. the holy spirit.. good grief. The holy spirit makes and puts to shame anything negative you write about the contents of gods word, but you don't see that .. you just plug along seeking to ruin.
                                 
                                 not qualified. not at all.
                                 have a nice day

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                                 hanging outposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 Well ya gotta wonder who these people were then. The masoretics were scrupulous, ardent, fervent copiers of the OT, who threw away whole sections if one error were to happen. The letters the disciples handed out, the received texts were from jesus disciples, chances are these are accurate, lol. The septuagint and vulgate are examples of the catholic church assembling their own bible, which god thwarted by many means. One being found in a wastebasket in a catholic monastery and the other unfinished was only derived from torn and battered "majority texts". Gods word is out there because God is here. Of this there is only carnal doubt but spiritual joy.

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                              Deaconessposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              "Then you have little faith in god to produce a book which is called HIS word."
                              
                              I had little faith in God until I started studying the early manuscripts in their original languages.
                              
                              "God opened cannonization and god closed it."
                              
                              God inspired the original writers... "men" cannonized those scriptures.
                              
                              "We can't just pick and choose what we want..."
                              
                              That is what those who cannonized the scripture did.
                              
                              Trusting in the KJV is not having faith in God... it is having faith in men... more specifically, men who used what they cannonized to justify atrocities and Godless acts for thousands of years.
                              
                              True faith in God would be trusting that the spirit will guide you in seeking truth for yourself.

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                                 hanging outposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 Any christian will tell you, god is in charge of that too.. having eyes to see and ears to hear, we who read the book, absolutely love it. Since god wrote the book through men, god also closed the canon through men, this is not hard to believe since god can read the hearts of all men. Pharoah of egypts' heart was hardened, god used this unbelieving sun worshiper to fulfill gods plan. So god used the men of the canon to complete his book.
                                 "True faith in God would be trusting that the spirit will guide you in seeking truth for yourself."
                                 True faith in god would be forsaking all, living on a hilltop and only thinking about god. The faith that most people have, is not true as you put it, but it is just faith, in accordance with the book HE gave us.

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      Don Wposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      We know meaning can be changed or lost in translation. Obvious. What isn't obvious is 1) why you consider that to be a revelation to theists. 2) what you expect theists to do with that information. Immediately stop being theists?
      
      It may have escaped you attention, but theists (especially those of the Abrahamic religious variety) tend to believe in an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, omnibenevolent, supernatural entity commonly known as god. Do you really think those belief systems can't deal with the translation issue in a way which is consistent with their core tenets?
      
      Look again at what aguasilver said: ". . . God, being omnipotent, is fully capable of making His word known to His believers in the form that He wishes to communicate to them."
      
      Did you see that? That was your point being assimilated into a theistic belief system. Are you surprised by it? It's of course exactly how someone who believes in god would respond. Indeed you'd say something similar if you believed in god. Hardly rocket science is it. So when you say "This post is just to make a point...." I fail to see what that point actually is, other than the fact that you clearly underestimate the robustness of theism to simply assimilate such weak, half baked digs at it.

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         Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Do I expect them to stop being theists? No. But, I do plan on leaving them nothing to argue.
         I understand that- and it's that sort of irrational thinking that brings out chosen ignorance them specifically.
         I saw the post. And to be honest, I've had this conversation with Aquasilver in the past. He is nothing more than a pretender. One who manipulates religion so as to perpetuate the religious intolerance the bible preaches to it's flock. Nothing more.
         Right but you failed to recognize the words I used, which I am not surprised. Translation versus Interpretation. But, thank you for your input.

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            Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Don't take me wrong.  You do speak words of wisdom from time to time ...
               I have heard it said that religion causes conflict.
            
              I cringe at the thought of the amount of conflict that would be unleashed upon the earth, if "EVERYONE"  had your self assuredness!  ....   OHOOOoooo SSHh----T  I'm going to have nightmares tonight.

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               Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               
               
               
               Nice lack of foresight Jerami. I can see why you fear people.

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                  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Don't project your fears upon me. Face them ,don't project.
                  I know that you can do it. I have faith in ya.

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                     Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     I have no fear of people, and by your statement, that which I responded to about you having nightmares, due to the fact of people being self-assured of themselves.
                     
                     Isn't me projecting my fear on you, but your manipulation of what I said only shows blind ignorance. Either way, you've shown yourself to be fearful without my help and if you cannot see that, then it also shows my words are true about blind ignorance also.
                     
                     You're a laugh a minute.

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         Druid Dudeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Rah, Rah,Rah... The cheering of the crowds in the coliseum, as the Lion Cagsil is eaten by a christian!

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         h.a.borcichposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         

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      brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this

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         Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Yet another pretender here. Good going. What a joke.

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            brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            truth hurts eh.. I will see a joke when i read this hub no doubt. Not trying to be offensive like you are, just telling you that basically you are not qualified to discern or expound on biblical or christian things because you hate it so much you are in darkness and cannot see the light. Your views will be bias, one sided, full of inadequacies and hate oriented. You will have no balancing with information from the christian side because everything christians say is rubbish to you and you ignore whatever good is said and just plug along to ruin every good work that is of God and i bet you don't include the demise of the spanish armada in your story. food for thought. "the wind blew and God won the war".
            
            Not attacking just sayin... course you will ignore this too, but others will silently nod their head in agreement.
            i wish you well.

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               Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Read my last post before you make an A$$ of yourself.

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                  brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  read my last post before you make an a$$ of yourself

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                     Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     I don't need to, because you're spouting the same garbage. So why bother...it is apparent that you've not learned anything properly over the course of your life.
                     
                     You are not better than Aquasilver...just another pretender.

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         Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         You cannot even post a reply right, never mind, consciously understand a written book. Nice to know though.

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      BDazzlerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Really? You with one hub, are going to finally put to rest pathetic bickering over religious texts?  "Finally put to rest "... wow, your hub will be so well received by people of all faiths of lack thereof that we will see peace in the Middle East?
      
      This one hub will supersede thousands of years of human traditions and beliefs about thousands of variants of religious systems? Wow.
      
      Finally, after this one hub, you, of all the humans on earth will have addressed the deep human need to be right about the most unknowable things and finally put it to rest. Nobody will ever again disagree again on the nature of religious texts.
      
      Your one hub will finally satisfy the intellectual, emotional, sociological and psychological needs of the millions of people  that lead to "pathetic bickering".
      
      Your hub alone will be so vastly persuasive that it will put to rest the pathetic bickering rather than simply be one more pathetic dissenting voice in the mix.
      
      I'm very impressed.

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         Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Your statement is a perfect example of the on-going ignorant thinking within society. Nice to know.

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            BDazzlerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I look forward to your definitive work on the subject.

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      paarsurreyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Hi friends
      
      I don't agree with the original poster
      
      There cannot be any true translations, without being interpretation of the translator. It is but natural that a translator would only translate a sentence as he understand it; humans do make mistakes if not of comission they could make of omission; to err is human so is with the translations.
      
      If the text of the Revealed Book is available in the original language it was revealed, and the laguage has never died and is living; then a truthful learner would learn that language to understand it or through that book he would learn that language.
      
      The translations are made only to facilitate those who don't know that language and are not much interested in knowing the contents of that book; otherwise it is not difficult to learn the book in the original language.
      
      Quran is in the origianl living language Arabic; translations are also available in other languages; and the translator do mention that translations are not perfect and are always subject to improvements. It is easy to learn Quran in Arabic; not difficult.
      
      Thanks
      
      I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

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2. 83

   habeeposted 14 years ago

   NO translation is 100% accurate. Many idoms, connotations, and nuances do not translate from one language to another.

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      Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Unless you can provide some examples, I don't think that's true at all. Essentially, what you're saying is that the exact same feelings and ideas everyone on the planet experiences cannot be communicated. That is entirely false.

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         habeeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I was referring to specifics. For example, if you literally translated "bought the farm" from English to Spanish, a Spanish-speaker would have no idea that you were talking about death. Same with "over the hill," "takes two to tango," "don't judge a book by its cover," and many more idiomatic expressions.

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            Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            You're talking about something completely different, which is not about translation, but about explaining slang terms. Not the same thing at all.

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            Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Again, this post is about slang usage, not translation.

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      Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Hey Habee, you would be correct. Slang wording is a new age form of language compared to the original beginning languages of humankind. That's why it is important to distinguish between slang/interpretation and translation.

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   Pearldiverposted 14 years ago

   I'm Not sure of your ability to make such a point mate
   
   Maybe if you include the Thothian texts of 'The Emerald Tablets' in your argument you might improve your bite considerably.
   
   Maybe the 'experts' can enlighten us to the ancient civiliazations whose knowledge was selectively left out of the bible and koran texts!!
   
   Maybe you've got the answer Cagsil...

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      Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Interesting post Pearldiver.

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   rebekahELLEposted 14 years ago

   hmm, and you were there to make this speculation? come on cags.. not a very solid ground for trying to make a point which may or may not be true.

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      Pearldiverposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      C'mon Rebekah.... He's making a point!
      Abeit... Unwittingly

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         Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         And asking a good question ?   
         Can any one ask a question that has no answer?
         I don't think so.
         Will anyone like that answer i it were to come? 
         I don't think so.

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            Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            It is irrelevant whether or not someone likes or even agrees with it. As long as it is sound, it makes no difference. It must leave out the ability to argue.

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               Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               WELL !!!   I Stand corrected ???
                
               
               Thank you  ??

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               alternate poetposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               I am glad you will finally put to rest the translation issue of all the 'holy' texts, the legions of highly educated scholars who have done their best over the centuries will be thrilled, those countless hordes who have cut bits out and stuck bits in will be dismayed.  The Pope will probably resign and close catholicism and all those wierdo American versions of the original will give all that money back to the suckers, sorry, that should have been congregation.
               
               The highly intelligent and socially aware people who were bright enough to invent the writing that you look down upon, but must have been stupid because they didn't have McDonalds and electric shavers, will be so glad that yet another definitive view will be formed in questionable english.

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                  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  You do realize most of those who did translations of the religious scripture in existence did so by the influence of religious leaders...oh yeah...greed seems to be a powerful motivator. It's not surprising it really hasn't been done before now. And, as for the crashing of Christianity, I'm sure, if the hub actually gets the attention of the Pope? He'll denounce it as nothing, like everything else religious leaders have been hiding from people.
                  In questionable English? Interesting.

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               Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Cagsil   I mean what I am about to say with all of the love and respect as if you were my only son.
               
                  Would you please see a doctor ??,,,,  Cause ;  Do you know ? what people say about other  people that thinks everybody else is crazy?????????

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         rebekahELLEposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         The Book of Cags. who knew he was an ancient texts scholar?

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            Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Not an ancient scholar? A Humankind student and researcher.

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               rebekahELLEposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               it's well documented by anthopologists who study, research and analyze human behavior and cultures that one must immerse themselves in an unfamiliar world in order to understand their own, not attempting to dispute, but in order to document and discover.

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      Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      It not about being there at the time, but it is about doing the research properly and not be influenced by dishonest people or religious leaders, so as to present unbiased and objective truth.
      Actually, the translation is the ground for understanding the falsehood of religion.

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   LeanManposted 14 years ago

   The Koran for instance contains references to husbands disciplining their wives, many take the words to mean "beat" whilst others take them as to mean "chastise", which is it? Tell them off or beat them black and blue????
   
   Depending on your interpretation of the words you can take either view, but you can guess the view that many men here take!!!!

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      Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Interpretation and translation are two different concepts. 

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         Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Thank you Beelzedad for pointing that out.

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         Druid Dudeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Not where some people were concerned. Historically though, most of the mistakes in the Bible can be attributed to "Lost in Translation"

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            Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            And, my point would be to make the "Lost in Translation", found.

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      Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      As someone else already said- "Interpretation" is different than "Translation".

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      stilljustwonderinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I'll stick with the view for a husband to love his wife as he does his self.

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         earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Well fortunately with the "word" you have choices.
         
         
         Tim 2:12
         Cor 14:34
         Pet 3:6
         Gen 3:16.
         Women's rights denied.
         
         Acts 2:18
         Acts 21:9
         Judg 4:4,14,15.
         Judg 5:7
         Women's rights affirmed

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            Druid Dudeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            You should be a supreme court justice.

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               earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Nah! I have enough nous to be able to read what is written in the mad book of hate though.

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            stilljustwonderinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Oh no doubt!  I am so glad I didn't live back in those days. 
            When the angels went to Lot and the men of the city went to his door wanting the visitors to come out so they could "know" them.  Lot said no, take my daughter.  Like, thanks Dad.
            I am very glad things changed.
            Come to think of it ttho.  Back then others had to take care of the widows in the family.  Thanks womens lib!! 

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               Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               See, that's what I am talking about....your post mentions things from the bible that have no substance.
               
               Approximately 80%+ of the things from the bible are out of context. Due to the fact that so much information is not known.

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                  stilljustwonderinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Would you explain to me what I said that has no substance?   I know I can't prove what I said.  Do you have any proof that it is false?

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                     Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     You speak of Angels..
                     
                     Do you know where humankind was at with regards to evolutionary position? Approximately 50% of the people walking the planet were not actually aware of their own life....do you know what that means?
                     
                     Probably not.....Angels...all imagination.

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                        stilljustwonderinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        Yes, I believe in Angels.
                        
                        (Do you know where humankind was at with regards to evolutionary position? Approximately 50% of the people walking the planet were not actually aware of their own life..)
                        
                        And science proved this?
                        
                        Medical science, told my Dad he had 3 months to live after having a kidney removed because of cancer.  He lived 9 more years.  So much for medical science.
                        
                        Science is a good thing, done many wonderful things, how ever, it is practiced by humans.  We are all flawed.  None of us knows everything. 
                        
                        I will stick with my "imagination"   Your free to stick to yours.

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                           Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           Didn't you just say that medical science removed a cancerous kidney allowing your dad to live for nine more years? ;

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                              stilljustwonderinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              "After" they removed the cancerous kidney they told my Dad he would live 3 months.

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                                 Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 You can't honestly believe a doctor is going to give a person a definitive time to live, they can't see the future.
                                 
                                 Of course, they did save your dad from dying of that cancerous kidney so he could live another nine years.
                                 
                                 Try giving credit where credit is due.

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                                    luvpassionposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                    But using science only you give no credit to the power of positive thinking.
                                    Placebos etc.
                                    
                                    Even if you rule the power of prayer out completly the fact that power of the mind can have an amazing affect is cause for further study.

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                                       Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                       Please tell me how the power of positive thinking or placebos can set and mend a broken limb, or cure a disease, or ...?
                                       
                                       
                                       
                                       Why? To what ends?

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                                          luvpassionposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                          So you're saying there's no research saying these things have an affect on medical conditions?

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                                             Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                             Where did I say that? I was asking to what ends such research would provide? Wouldn't it make more sense to use resources in finding practical scientific methods rather than hopes and prayers?

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                                    stilljustwonderinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                    I do give credit where credit is due.  Medical science did remove my Dad's kidney.  The condition my Dad was in after his surgery left medical science believing he had 3 months, of course that is approximately.  Big difference between 3 months and 9 years.
                                    
                                    All I am saying is that sometimes science makes  a mistake.  It is practiced by humans, who make mistakes.  Humans who operate equipment that some times make mistakes.
                                    
                                    Computers, made by humans, programed by humans, operated by humans.
                                    Sometimes err.

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                                       Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                       Why do you focus on that? It is completely irrelevant to the fact that medical science saved your dads life and let him live for another nine years?
                                       
                                       
                                       
                                       Notice that medical science did not make a mistake when they saved your dads life.
                                       
                                       
                                       
                                       The same could be said about people who just believe things and never think things through, they make a lot more mistakes than humans who do.

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                           Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           Yes, science has proved, however, the Church influence has suppressed it from common knowledge.
                           I get the fact that science makes mistakes. Duh!
                           You are correct, no one knows everything and no one will ever know everything there is to know, because learning is part of our natural process for growth. But, what is knowable should be known by ALL people. Those who choose to be ignorant in this manner are the people who are damaging humanity.
                           Yes, by all means, stick to your imagination, but use it like you should. Duh!

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                              stilljustwonderinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              Science is a marvelous thing, it has done great works.
                              At least we can agree that science does make mistakes.
                              
                              We agree no one knows everything.
                              
                              What is knowable can be proven.   However,  there have been cases where something is proven, then a few years down the road it is recanted.  This does happen more so in medical science.
                              
                              Actually, "imagination" is the word I borrowed from you.  However, I will stick to my faith, as I should.

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                                 Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 Please don't spread disinformation. Thanks.

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                                    stilljustwonderinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                    I don't believe I have.
                                    I looked back up to see what could be construed as misinformation.
                                    Maybe when I said science makes mistakes.? It is actually the humans who work the science that some times makes mistakes.  Equipment doesn't work properly some times.
                                    
                                    When I said there have been cases when it has been recanted.  Happens more in medical science?  Surely you don't think that is false.  They can't make up their minds if certain foods are good for you or bad for you.

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   aguasilverposted 14 years ago

   What your presumptions miss out Cagsil, is that God, being omnipotent, is fully capable of making His word known to His believers in the form that He wishes to communicate to them.
   
   The fact that you dismiss His word matters not a jot (or tittle) - this book you decry has been 100% correct in fulfilled prophesy, and is a guidebook to a full and peaceful life for all who seek to understand it.
   
   But I look forward to your hub, but be careful, it was my 18 months study of the bible, started to find the error and to pull it apart, that led to my coming to faith.
   
   On the other hand, I would love to see you come to true faith in Christ, you would make a wonderful testimony!

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      skyfireposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      How to verify your posts validity, if you assume much more than cags presumptions ?

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      Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Your assumption that the translation is meaningless is your human fallible side showing.
      The ignorance in this statement is based on the faulty assumption you have the right idea about the bible in the first place, but nice try at undermining my ability.
      Your 18 months? I have 15 years of in-depth research, which you continue to cast aside to save your faith.
      The faith in Christ? Again, you make yet another assumption that you even know what you are talking about. Christ? comes from Christianity Religion. It wasn't even his name. DUH!

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         Druid Dudeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I wrote one, two maybe three K yrs ago. I think it's the best. I call it "Muse of the World's foundation". Not really, they're all good. So did you hear the one about the Beatles? John Lennon said "The Beatles are bigger than Jesus" meaning record sales opposed to Bible sales. Anyways,  a D.J. from TX called for their albums to be burned. Next day same guy was on the radio, and a bolt of lightning hit the tower and knocked him unconscious. HMMMM.

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            Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Irrelevant.

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               Druid Dudeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Lotta this stuff fits that bill.

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                  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Yeah, like the post I am responding to.

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         aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         "Your assumption that the translation is meaningless is your human fallible side showing."
         
         2 Timothy 3:16-17 (King James Version)
         
         All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
         
         "The ignorance in this statement is based on the faulty assumption you have the right idea about the bible in the first place, but nice try at undermining my ability."
         
         The bible itself undermines your ability.
         
         "I have 15 years of in-depth research, which you continue to cast aside to save your faith."
         
         18 months was the START that led me to faith, the last 18 years have been consolidation of the Word and my faith, and trust in God.
         
         "The faith in Christ? Again, you make yet another assumption that you even know what you are talking about. Christ? comes from Christianity Religion. It wasn't even his name. DUH!"
         
         Again, whether you call Him Yashua,Christ or one of the following, He is still who the bible states He is:
         
         Advocate (1 John 2:1)
         Almighty (Rev. 1:8; Mt. 28:18)
         Alpha and Omega (Rev. 1:8; 22:13)
         Amen (Rev. 3:14)
         Apostle of our Profession (Heb. 3:1)
         Atoning Sacrifice for our Sins (1 John 2:2)
         Author of Life (Acts 3:15)
         Author and Perfector of our Faith (Heb. 12:2)
         Author of Salvation (Heb. 2:10)
         Beginning and End (Rev. 22:13)
         Blessed and only Ruler (1 Tim. 6:15)
         Bread of God (John 6:33)
         Bread of Life (John 6:35; 6:48)
         Capstone (Acts 4:11; 1 Pet. 2:7)
         Chief Cornerstone (Eph. 2:20)
         Chief Shepherd (1 Pet. 5:4)
         Christ (1 John 2:22)
         Creator (John 1:3)
         Deliverer (Rom. 11:26)
         Eternal Life (1 John 1:2; 5:20)
         Everlasting Father (Isa. 9:6)
         Gate (John 10:9)
         Faithful and True (Rev. 19:11)
         Faithful Witness (Rev. 1:5)
         Faith and True Witness (Rev. 3:14)
         First and Last (Rev. 1:17; 2:8; 22:13)
         Firstborn From the Dead (Rev. 1:5)
         God (John 1:1; 20:28; Heb. 1:8; Rom. 9:5; 2 Pet. 1:1;1 John 5:20; etc.)
         Good Shepherd (John 10:11,14)
         Great Shepherd (Heb. 13:20)
         Great High Priest (Heb. 4:14)
         Head of the Church (Eph. 1:22; 4:15; 5:23)
         Heir of all things (Heb. 1:2)
         High Priest (Heb. 2:17)
         Holy and True (Rev. 3:7)
         Holy One (Acts 3:14)
         Hope (1 Tim. 1:1)
         Hope of Glory (Col. 1:27)
         Horn of Salvation (Luke 1:69)
         I Am (John 8:58)
         Image of God (2 Cor. 4:4)
         King Eternal (1 Tim. 1:17)
         King of Israel (John 1:49)
         King of the Jews (Mt. 27:11)
         King of kings (1 Tim 6:15; Rev. 19:16)
         King of the Ages (Rev. 15:3)
         Lamb (Rev. 13:8)
         Lamb of God (John 1:29)
         Lamb Without Blemish (1 Pet. 1:19)
         Last Adam (1 Cor. 15:45)
         Life (John 14:6; Col. 3:4)
         Light of the World (John 8:12)
         Lion of the Tribe of Judah (Rev. 5:5)
         Living One (Rev. 1:18)
         Living Stone (1 Pet. 2:4)
         Lord (2 Pet. 2:20)
         Lord of All (Acts 10:36)
         Lord of Glory (1 Cor. 2:8)
         Lord of lords (Rev. 19:16)
         LORD [YHWH] our Righteousness (Jer. 23:6)
         Man from Heaven (1 Cor. 15:48)
         Mediator of the New Covenant (Heb. 9:15)
         Mighty God (Isa. 9:6)
         Morning Star (Rev. 22:16)
         Offspring of David (Rev. 22:16)
         Only Begotten Son of God (John 1:18; 1 John 4:9)
         Our Great God and Savior (Titus 2:13)
         Our Holiness (1 Cor. 1:30)
         Our Husband (2 Cor. 11:2)
         Our Protection (2 Thess. 3:3)
         Our Redemption (1 Cor. 1:30)
         Our Righteousness (1 Cor. 1:30)
         Our Sacrificed Passover Lamb (1 Cor. 5:7)
         Power of God (1 Cor. 1:24)
         Precious Cornerstone (1 Pet. 2:6)
         Prince of Peace (Isa. 9:6)
         Prophet (Acts 3:22)
         Resurrection and Life (John 11:25)
         Righteous Branch (Jer. 23:5)
         Righteous One (Acts 7:52; 1 John 2:1)
         Rock (1 Cor. 10:4)
         Root of David (Rev. 5:5; 22:16)
         Ruler of God's Creation (Rev. 3:14)
         Ruler of the Kings of the Earth (Rev. 1:5)
         Savior (Eph. 5:23; Titus 1:4; 3:6; 2 Pet. 2:20)
         Son of David (Lk. 18:39)
         Son of God (John 1:49; Heb. 4:14)
         Son of Man (Mt. 8:20)
         Son of the Most High God (Lk. 1:32)
         Source of Eternal Salvation for all who obey him (Heb. 5:9)
         The One Mediator (1 Tim. 2:5)
         The Stone the builders rejected (Acts 4:11)
         True Bread (John 6:32)
         True Light (John 1:9)
         True Vine (John 15:1)
         Truth (John 1:14; 14:6)
         Way (John 14:6)
         Wisdom of God (1 Cor. 1:24)
         Wonderful Counselor (Isa. 9:6)
         Word (John 1:1)
         Word of God (Rev. 19:13)

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            Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            You're joking right?
            
            Like I said before and we've had this conversation, go peddle you talk to someone you can convert. You perpetuate the hoax no better than the pope.
            
            You can spout out all the garbage you like. The simple fact that you try to negate truth, by using conjecture of religious text is a fine point to show you are nothing more than a pretender.
            
            You protect the word, because you lack the intelligence to see beyond it. Remember, I'm not the little person you believe me to be. I've called you pretender before and that's exactly what you are.
            
            You learned the bible inside and outside, so as to perpetuate the hoax for whatever reason. Apparently, you found a way to manipulate it to work for you.
            
            No truly intelligent human would be an atheist, then convert, without a motive. So, keep coming.

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               aguasilverposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               "No truly intelligent human would be an atheist, then convert, without a motive."
               
               My motive was to recognise the truth that previously I had rebelled against in my stupid belief that I was a truly superior human being of broad intellectual ability, who had all the answers.
               
               I had wandered far and wide in this world, seen the extremes of wealth and poverty, and read most every book I could find that would 'expand' my understanding.... except the bible.
               
               I am 59 years old in my body, and about 45 in my mind and ageless in my spirit.
               
               My hubs are read widely by a wide variety of believers and secular folk, and it seems that they are well received if my comments and fan mail is to be counted.
               
               Please do not confuse me with some southern Baptist or other religious person who was born into their faith and has never challenged it, nor experienced the world.
               
               John

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                  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Of course you hubs are widely read...you've studied religion enough to make any believer praise your work.
                  
                  You've done a great job at continuing the perpetuation of the hoax. I should congratulate you on a job well done, but I just don't have the stomach for it to be honest.
                  
                  
                  Edit: I don't have you confused with anyone.

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   Jeramiposted 14 years ago

   If there were a book that contained total and absolute truth.
   
      Like Jack Nicholson said...  "You cain't handle the truth"
   
     What would we do with it? 
   Most asuridly, not the right thing!!!!

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      Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Again, you point out how fearful you are of the people of the world. Thank you.

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         exorterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         which book you try to live by is not a judgement  we have to worry about, we are to live the best we can according to our version of the word of god. our hearts - god will know

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            Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Your version? That's the problem.

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               exorterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               sounds like your version is not going to get you anywhere

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                  Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  My version?
                  
                  When will people learn....

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                     exorterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     sooner or later a seed will take root and you will see when people will learn

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                        Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        Your analogy is correct... A "seed" will be planted, and it will grow, but not in the manner you think...and it has absolutely NOTHING to do with a god or even religion.

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                           exorterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           some day you will change your mind

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                              Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              My dear friend/human...your thinking is misguided, no different than that of billions for the last 2000 years.
                              
                              But, it's okay. You'll die and never know the difference. No worries.

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                                 exorterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 check back with me in a fee years and let me know if you still think me to be misguided

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                                    Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                    I know you're misguided and don't follow Jesus' teachings.
                                    
                                    It is plain as day and obvious, just like 100% of everyone else who claims to follow Jesus' teachings.
                                    
                                    I know this because you are still using an external source for guidance...

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   Diane Insideposted 14 years ago

   Cagsil, I was surprised to see this forum post and a little confused, I mean you say you don't like to argue, but plainly that is not the case.
   
   Knowledge of the Bible or any religious document doesn't do anything without faith.
   
   To you a book is just a book. Nothing will ever change that unless you want it to.
   
   And to judge people by telling them they don't follow what they believe, doesn't hurt that person, only yourself.
   
   Anyway go ahead you will anyway, so whatever butters your biscuit.
   
   Your post doesn't enlighten anyone, just puts people on the defense.
   
   Oh and perhaps you will die and be all to aware of the difference. But go ahead sometimes you have to let a child get burned so they will learn not to do it again.
   
   Good day

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      Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I would expect such a reply from such a person. Nothing new.
      That's why it MUST go away. It's the wrong use of faith.
      This statement has "dense" written all over it. Apparently, you have no clue what I think of the book. Which means you've not read enough of my post to make or assess any form of judgment.
      Another not too bright statement. Apparently, you haven't a clue, because the bible and all other books of the like, have been manipulated to be out of context. So please... get your facts straight before you decide to come at me about things that reflect on me. Just your actions alone speaks volume about what you claim to know.
      Must be nice to be selfish.
      Mystic faith is nothing but defensible to begin with. There is not a position of offense that can be take. So please..
      Apparently you LACK understanding of DEATH. It happens to END all consciousness, at that point you will not be AWARE of anything. Learn more about the human body.
      Enough people have already been burned by religion and it is purposely controlling people so as to keep a status quo of a god, so other people can manipulate and usurp power, wealth and control. Again, learn something would ya?

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         Diane Insideposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I'm a therapist I think I know something of the human body , DUH!

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   wilmiers77posted 14 years ago

   The book that says God created heaven and earth. Man disobeyed God, and is a fallen state. Jesus, Son Of God, was crucified for our sins to redeem us from our fallen state. He rose from the dead, and verified truth of our redemption to God. In any language, idialect, or modern language, this or these books are true.

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      Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      And, none of it would be true. Duh!

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    Diane Insideposted 14 years ago

    See all you do is tell people how stupid they are, yet you wish they would listen to you.

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    Greek Oneposted 14 years ago

    I read the Bible in its original Greek

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       turgumanposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       was jesus Greek?!

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          Greek Oneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          nope.. but the stuff he said was first written in Greek

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    pisean282311posted 14 years ago

    what kind of question is this..ofcourse the only book true in translation is of religion i follow..rest are non believers ...on serious notes..every person following religion which ever it is mostly believes that what he/she reads is actually true...

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