probably because they allegedly know there is no after life, and when they die they'll cease to exist. whereas people of faith do believe in an after life, so there's always a promise of life after death that gives people hope.
i can say no one die, actually soul live one costume ( body ) and take new costume or birth or body
We cease to exist everytime we go to sleep.Our consciousness totally gone.People can see our body but they cannot interact with us so that condition is as good as non exist.
But we are still experiencing things. We dream, we hear sound. Just because we do not interact does not mean our consciousness is gone. It is merely directed elsewhere, internally I would say, although I'm sure some will argue it's travelling the planes or whatever else. Which is fine, my point is that you're consciousness is not gone just because you are asleep.
The only time consciousness is completely lost is when the brain ceases to function and one is brain dead.
There's some people around here who have that condition, and yet somehow their fingers keep mashing the keys. How do you explain that?
I explain that by a very, very, very limited consciousness. These people seem to think they are alive, but are emulating the animals reactions to that of nature. Kind of like those of 2000+ years ago.
The illiterate, almost unconscious, responses that dwell on external authority, like that 2000+ years ago time, continue to locate the keys.
Granted, even the barely conscious humans at that time, could write, even though they were not fully conscious of their own existence. Hence, why there is scriptures for the bible and every other religion of the world.
Like amoebas and stuff? You know, that makes it almost cool. Like communicating with aliens or something.
because they have no belief system to cope with the haunting question of what happens and where do we go after death. It can be a very scary situation if you don't know what is going to be your destiny.
"because they have no belief system to cope with the haunting question of what happens and where do we go after death."
Uh, yes, they do. Or most of them, anyway. They believe that when you die, you're dead. That's all she wrote.
I suppose it's possible to be an atheist and still believe that people have souls or spirits or some other thing that continues after physical death, but I've never met full-on atheist who believed in ghosts.
"It can be a very scary situation if you don't know what is going to be your destiny."
I think it's scary for atheists because they don't want to cease to exist.It's scary for theists because no matter what, there's no way to be really sure you backed the right horse until you cross the finish line, so to speak.
What a broad generalization, tinged with inaccuracies.
I have observed that the fear of death is universal to all living organisms. It is innate, and a necessary important trait for survival.
I don't think atheist fear death any more than theist.
A true atheist does not fear death in the sense you imply here, as in going to hell etc.... She or he looks at it like a natural thing that just happens,
they do not want it or the pain of it like any normal human, they enjoy life and living. But they hold no Christian concept or perception about it.
I have meet personally only two who were truly that, so far in my life, and they both seemed, to me anyway, very relaxed about it.
On what evidence to you base this assertion?
I would question that it is true at all.
As an atheist, I have no fear of death. All things that live must die. I take joy in the time I have right now, knowing that this is all that I have available.
I don't care for believing in things I eat, drink, work, love, see cool sunsets, get a thrill out of roller coasters, don't really care for religion but am polite to those that do, give spare change at the convient store (in whatever jar happens to be closest to me) ,hold my babies cause I love'em and will be happy when I die as I am today. Peace.
theo wrote: why do atheist hate death?...
Cus they have to get all dressed up for the occasion?
No one wants to die, if they do they commit suicide. everyone fears it. If you go hold your breath underwater for a long time, your body naturally is fearful.
But right now, no I am not fearing it. I am not looking forward to it however. But its cool to think that there is a real possibility of something happening when you die. Not being spiritual, but no one knows for sure what happens. Hell you might just die an thats it, but its still cool to think about my life outside the box.
All athiests?That's a rather all encompassing statement.I'm curios,how did you come to that conclusion...?
yeah, but how did you find that out to be true though. did you take a poll and ask atheists this? or did you read it in a book or something. seriously, i know you didn't just wake up with that information over night.
I don't know any athiests that fear death and I know a lot. Your *assumption* is unfounded.
Hi, Susana. Good to see you. Not gonna join in the discussion, though. Sorry to interrupt, just wanted to say howdy.
I think religious-folk often cling to their beliefs because they fear death (or rather that they think they are going to hell if they don't believe). I know someone that was relieved a family member was converted before they died, because they believed they were going to hell, and were very upset at that prospect
Buddhists, by definition, are atheists. Buddhists do no fear death because they believe in reincarnation. Therefore, all atheists do no fear death. Don't generalize. You could meet someone like me and be humbled.
Fear death ? BS. Life looks way too good because it's one-shot.
When I was an atheist I never actually feared death, just the manner of death! - like Woody Allen I just did not want to be there!
Any atheist who feared death should reexamine their standpoint, for if you believe in oblivion upon death, why fear?
Possibly more importantly, why waste this life,(if it's the ONLY one you will have) trying to debate believers?
As a new believer in Christ someone said "Don't you get excited thinking about eternal life" and my reply was "All I want is to get the demons of my back in this one"
I'm pleased to say that I did get the demons off my back, and now (18 years later) I do look forward to eternity!
i dont think there is any data on which one can conclude that atheist fear death..
In the physical world .. I you can imagine it .. it can be.
What if an after life is dependent upon imagining it to be before, we get there.
If you imagine nothing and darkness then that is what you have created or yourself?
In this lie and afterwards.
Gotta go make a living now... be back later.
Who says we fear death?
I have been insituations where I thought my death was imminent several times in the course of my life. In each case, I was calm and not fearful.
Fear comes when you have choices and you are not sure what to do. If somebody is threatening me with a gun, I'll be afraid. Should I run, attack, talk? Who knows?
But riding as a passenger in a speeding car about to ignore a red light and enter a busy intersection is a bit different. So is drowning. I have been in both those situations and had only mild regret, not fear.
Those are immediate situations. You might say they are too quick. But it goes beyond the immediate.
I'm 62 years old. Although I have excellent genetics behind me, I certainly understand that death is not all that far away for me. I don't fear it. I fear losing my health, yes, but not death.
I can't speak for other atheists (and you certainly cannot either), but THIS atheist has no fear of death.
I am irreligious and in no way do I fear death.
Instead, I enjoy my youth knowing that I may not be able to fully enjoy my old age. When I reach old age I will still enjoy my old age, in the knowledge that my life is not eternal. It is those who bank on an eternal existance and deny that their time is limited who fear death my friend, those who accept that their is an end are those with the courage to accept death as the end to the beginning.
I live for today, I make sure that I make the most of my time on earth - earth is my heaven. If I discover that life is eternal upon 'death' then what have I lost? Nothing.
I would fear eternal life, if I believed in it, much more than I fear death. If I have any fear of death then it is a fear of an early death, as an early death would mean less time in my heaven. Yesterday I was put to sleep for surgery. I had no fear of not waking up, I actually had a fear of waking up during surgery. That was a fear of pain.
Those that believe in an after life are expecting something great to happen, expecting to find themselves in a paradise. I would suggest that we are already in paradise....
Welcome to heaven, respect it and enjoy it whilst you have the time. There are many many others who will get their time on paradise, make sure that you experience as much of it as you can before its somebody elses time to jump on the ride.
Lovely pictures, Ryan, and some absolutely breath-taking.
To the OP, I don't fear death either. I'm also not eagerly looking forward to it as the grand solution to the world's problems either.
I just prefer to live among the living, and -when it's time- to lie down with the dead.
There are no atheists! period! Only those who who think they are because they don't understand.
Death is not to be feared. Dying is the fearful part.
What a piece of condescending garbage this statement is.
You don't know anything with any more certainty than anyone else. In fact, I would argue that arrogant certainty of the magnitude your comment represents indicates a lack of wisdom at least proportionate to that which you pretend.
Wow! I love the passion, the emotion registered in that response! :-)
Of course there are no atheists!
The definition of "atheism" is: "to deny the existence of god/s."
How can one deny the "existence" of that which is only imagined?
There is nothing, "factual" to deny.
One can deny the "concept" of "god/s."
This "god thing" is metaphysical in nature. "It" cannot be "known." "It" cannot be defined in any manner but opinion and conjecture. "It exists only in hope and guess."
One can "deny" the CONCEPT of "god/s" but not of this "god thing" that is but an unknown, undefined supernatural divinity that exists only in the minds of the superstitious and fearful, primitive human mind.
One can be an "aconcepttheist," but not an "atheist." One can "think" he is because he hasn't thought it out to a logical conclusion.
I surely hope that you are right, you intrigue me slightly and I will read more of your hubs.
I personally (you know) am one of those monotheist folk you seem to despise, though (reading your profile) I wonder why?
If what I have found to be truth for me is correct, so be it, if you are correct, so be it, I enjoy my time here on earth and fear nothing about death except perhaps the manner in which I will pass, but in reality even that will be finite in time and short compared to my joyous times during my life.
Personally I would wonder if I were the ONLY person who believed what I held to be truth, but you seem content so there is no problem.
I wish you a long and healthy life, and hopefully a pleasant surprise when you pass from here.
I don't hate monotheists!
I hate monotheism!
I have monotheist friends. They understand me and I them.
I accept and respect them as brother human beings.
We speak of our differences of "opinions" but when the conversation ends, we are still friends who agree to disagree.
You don't agree with me, but, as yet, I haven't added you to my "no response" list because you have been civil with your responses. I respect that. :-)
"May the force be with you." :-)
Using your definition, your question is--as is so often and endlessly the case on either side of this ontological debate on these forums--operating under a logical fallacy.
Let me break it down into its basic syllogistic form so we can look at the assumption that is ruining your argument:
Major premise: Things must actually exist before they can be "denied"
Minor premise: God does not exist (he is imaginary)
Conclusion: God cannot be denied.
This is the syllogistic underpinning of your argument regarding atheists being "no such thing." Your point that Atheists can't deny something that does not exist relies on the syllogistic logic I just described. But your logic relies on the assumption that god does not exist, which you can't prove. So, your statement leaps ahead of itself, relying on your own assumption as the "reason" for why your statement is true. You are, in essence, saying, "God does not exist because he does not exist." That is begging the question.
Which takes me back to my original point about arrogance, because the only "authority" you have to support your claim is your own, and, when stated in the manner of such finality as your opening post, it cannot help but come off as arrogance and pseudo-wisdom.
The rest of your "support" for your argument is gobbly-gook that runs circles around the broken logic from which you begin. I'll try to show you why.
Says who? Where is your facts that prove there is nothing factual to deny? God-lovers have the advantage of you're not being able to prove a negative. You can't prove there is NOT something. YOu can only prove there IS something. This part of your argument is as fallacious as the overall claim.
Just as a point of distinction, you are describing what is epistemological in nature here. You left metaphysics when you finished the claim from just above. How we know something is completely different than whether something is or is not. The former is epistemology the latter ontology (or metaphysics).
This is nearly incomprehensible and could have used some revisions before you entered it for clarity, however, "One can deny the CONCEPT of 'god/s'" is grossly true if we allow for trying to get at your meaning within the charitable confines of a friendly debate. Here it appears you are saying it is possible to deny an idea. I don't believe that faster-than-light travel is possible. Or, I don't believe the world is round. Etc. I can deny ideas and concepts. Especially ones that can be proved.
However, where this falls apart is that you are saying, bascially, "I have an idea about magical beings that I call God," and you can hear me say that and say, "No, I deny your idea." Which is fine, and you are correct. The problem is that this is not the same as denying the existence of an actual God, the "god thing" you are referring to. Denying the existence of God is not denying the idea. Here's why:
To begin, you are making a double-negative in your claim. Your claim in simple form is thus: There is NO such thing as atheists because there is NO such thing as God for them to disbelieve.
I can drop the negatives and make the following claim just as easily: There IS a such thing as atheists because there IS a god for them to disbelieve.
What either claim lacks is actual proof. Which takes us back to the syllogistic point I made up top.
Toss all that out on a pompous sounding opening post, and voila, you get the reaction from me that you did.
Yes, the irony here is palpable.
I LOVE IT SHADES!
" But your logic relies on the assumption that god does not exist, which you can't prove."
You missed the point entirely.
When you can define this "god thing" for us in any form but opinion and conjecture, I'll be happy to admit that I was wrong and recant.I have no idea what you are referring to except as "it" relates to whatever you imagine "it" to be.
I cannot "argue" about that which cannot be defined for me in any other form than opinion and conjecture.
Once you can provide, not proofs of this "god thing," but just a good sound logical defintion of it that removes it from the realm of naught but imagination, we can carry on this chat.
Until then there is no "syllogism" to consider.
Thanks for the response tho....:-)
More bad logic. Here's why.
Any form other than opinion and conjecture would have to be fact. You are saying here that I must come up with a definition of god that is fact, because you don't want opinion or conjecture. Fact, by definition, requires proof. Which is fine, you can ask for that if you like. If I can't provide proof of god, you can say, "You have not proved God, I still do not believe in him." I wouldn't blame you. But you can't pretend that you are not asking for actual proof of God here. You are. I just don't think you realize it yet.
Given what I have said in the previous section, this part from you is meaningless, because you have attempted to set a trap using your logical fallacy. You will never have to admit that you are wrong, because there is no way to refer to God in anything other than language intended to describe something that is not known or verifiable. Your requirement of "defined in any other form than opinion and conjecture" leaves only verifiable evidence. Which you then try to deny in what you write next:
No, that is exactly what you are demanding, proof, because you have told me that opinion and conjecture are not allowed, and by inference also hypothesis, imagination, theory, postulate, deeply informed philosophical treatise, and anything else related to opinion, idea and conjecture.
What else is there but me sitting God down on the table in front of you?
The syllogism remains perfectly intact, it's just that you haven't caught up to it yet. You're still mired in the thick mud of your word games.
The problem is that you don't realize that you have placed yourself (you can even read "humans" in place of just "you" if you like) at the center of the conversation, as if somehow what you believe or have been convinced of has anything to do with the existence or non-existence of God. There either is or is not a God. Whether you/me/anyone can ever describe it to you in words that satisfy you, or even prove it or disprove it some other way is another thing entirely.
Hahaha...awww Shades, I wouldn't even consider proof of anything until it can be defined in any manner other than opinion and conjecture. Syllogistics are not even involved here.
Now c'mon, give me a quote from any monotheistic tome or from any source you pick that defines this imagined god in any other
form than "guess."
Jeff berndt has it: " Flying pink unicorns don't exist. They are purely imaginary."
You are fun tho Shades. As long as you remain civil, I'll always read and respond to your replies. :-)
They are, but I'm not going to try to convince you of it. I'll just point out, again, that your original statement "that athiests don't exist" relied on our being able to prove that god exists by presenting an argument to you that includes a definition of God in which God has already been proved thereby eliminating "ideas" and "imagination" and "opinion and conjecture." That's what you said. I think you're running from that now, which is fine. I don't blame you, given how sandy the foundation is for that little ontological house.
The possible constructions of human language and symbols that I could use to define God for you are literally infinite. Quoting one from any random era's religious text would be as good as quoting any other. I'm not sure what the point of that would be.
"They are, but I'm not going to try to convince you of it. I'll just point out, again, that your original statement "that athiests don't exist" relied on our being able to prove that god exists by presenting an argument to you that includes a definition of God in which God has already been proved thereby eliminating "ideas" and "imagination" and "opinion and conjecture."
I can't even consider that statement. Any comment you present with the word "proof" in it makes the comment unconsiderable.
We're going to have to agree to disagree and leave it at that...
"How can one deny the "existence" of that which is only imagined?"
Like this: Flying pink unicorns don't exist. They are purely imaginary.
Quod Erat Demonstrandum.
In a recent survey, people do not fear death, they fear the sickness before death. I would love to cite the research but it was in a radio interview. Surely, I wouldn't convince you anyway, your fairytale is so contrived, I'm not sure reason would be a weapon of any strength.
haha, there are no atheists? That's a bold remark.
We don't need to fear death any more than we should fear life. We just should fear to lose that precious life of ours.
I'm not an atheist.
I also don't fear death either. I've accepted the fact that one day I will die.
I certainly hope there is no afterlife as I cannot imagine a more horrifying vision than to be stuck in the same place with you for all eternity.
One does not have to be an atheist to believe in an alternative afterlife to the conventional monotheist version (call it heaven, nirvana, whatever).
If you don't believe in god/God but believe in reincarnation, you can quite easily approach death without fear, but with faith that next time you will come back as something cool. Like maybe a pink unicorn
I'm sorry but this thread made me laugh.
What's to fear? It is my understanding that Atheists don't believe in anything. So what's to fear?
I actually think it would be freeing. Unlike being Christian, where you are constantly worrying about salvation; whether its your salvation, their salvation, her salvation, his salvation, my salvation, the neighbor Joe's salvation, etc.....
Yeah, I'm thinking that kind of freedom might be nice. They have nothing to fear when they die. What could be more peaceful than that? There is no judgment day for them.
Atheists don't believe in death?
A theist believes there is something else after death. They can be content with that. An atheist believes that death is the cessation of life and there is nothing after.
If you had something precious and you were going to have it taken from you, there'd be disappointment right? But if you knew you were going to get something better as a replacement, that would make you happy.
Would it still make you happy if you learned it was false?
As I said, I'm no atheist and don't fear death. I once believed my father who died went to heaven, but that was in the early years of my life before my research of religion.
"Atheists don't believe in death?"
Explain the logic leading to that conclusion, please? Because nothing IE said seems to indicate that the conclusion is a valid one.
Atheists believe in death in the same way that atheists "believe in" gravity. It happens; they see it happening in the world all the time.
The rest of your post makes sense, though.
IntimatEvolution had said "It is my understanding that Atheists don't believe in anything."
Thats why I asked "Atheists don't believe in death?"
Someone else's opinion of which fairy is gonna zap me after I'm dead is very much NOT on my mind.
Broad generalisations aren't often very accurate.
I can understand someone with no belief in God fearing lack of existence for eternity more than death itself. The notion of not existing for ever with no hope whatsoever of entering into life again is possibly the single most terrifying thing a living being can contemplate. Never to experience anything again. Missing out on absolutely everything that will ever happen. Scary. But that thought applies to Christians, Atheists, Muslims, anyone with a mind to think about what it really means.
I don't think Atheists fear death more than anyone else. They definitely have no hope for a solution to the inevitable end that their belief leads them to though, which is a very sad thing.
"They definitely have no hope for a solution to the inevitable end that their belief leads them to though, which is a very sad thing."
I dunno. Which is sadder: the atheist having no hope of eternal life and therefore making the most of this one, or the theist expecting eternal life if only you act a certain way, and going around trying to make other people act like you think they ought to so they can live forever too?
IF the theist is right about everything, that is, a) there is in fact an afterlife, b) it is in fact ruled by a deity, c) the deity in question is in fact the theist's chosen deity, d) the deity in question will in fact decide whether each person gets rewarded or punished in the afterlife, and e) the theist is in fact correct about what said deity wants people to do to ensure reward or avoid punishment, then
Conclusion: the atheist's life is sadder.
But again (and again and again, ad nauseam) there is no way to know which is the case until after you die!
Therefore, I choose not to try to make people miserable in this life. Of course, as a theist who believes that God wants us not to make each other miserable, I have a fairly easy time of it. (Of course, I could be wrong, and I might be going to Hell for all those shrimp, crawdads, and crabs that I've eaten over the years --oh, and that lobster that one time!--, but that's my problem.)
Because they believe that there is nothing after death..
Why do atheists fear death?
They fear death because they know they won't have any share in the hereafter.
LOL. Yes, all atheists live in absolute terror knowing that they are not going to be part of the thing they don't believe in.
Awesome piece of logic there.
You know, I've heard that many atheists also wear Kevlar vests under their clothes to protect them from being gored by unicorns, which they also don't believe in, but are very frightened of. Mark Knowles actually has a full suit of chainmail that he wears at all times for this reason. Just ask him.
I don't think I fear death any more than the next person. Honestly, I never really think about it.
I do make a point of having as much fun as I can right here and now though, because I know I'm not going to get a second shot at this.
I don't fear death. I fear boredom.
It doesn't matter what anybody believes about what happens after death ( i think that is the point of this post). It is what we do with the life we have now that matters and IF:
There is no God .. the atheist and unsaved would be grateful but they won't be conscious enough to acknowledge it.
There is a God... well the atheist and unsaved can hope their digested food is not all sitting around their ankles.
You miss the entire point. Non believers will suffer eternal torture. They will be TOTALLY "conscious enough to acknowlege it". If you don't serve GOD, he condemns you to burning agony that never ends for all eternity. Your poorly spent 20 or 80 years on this planet will earn you a length of time so unendingly miserable we don't even have mathematical exponents capable of describing how long you will suffer and writhe in inexorable misery. God loves you, but he writes you off really, really easily.
They fear death because they know they won't have any share in the hereafter.
"They fear death because they know they won't have any share in the hereafter." THEY??? are we alians too?
oh I see so you're looking forward to dying just to get a share of the prophets (geddit). Bit greedy and selfish and dare I say unchrisitna of you.
Unless of course hereafter is a religious pie.
Either way I'm still clinically insane.
That doesn't make sense. If an Atheist knows he won't have any share in the hereafter, he must believe that there is a hereafter, in which case he isn't an Atheist.
"When the fear of the pain in life,becomes greater than the fear of the pain in death,man will chose death every time...H D Thoreau
I'd say that pretty much applies to everybody...wouldn't you?
I am very religious and I do not fear death. I believe I will live out my purpose until God chooses to recall my spirit for its purpose beyond this underworld we call Earth. As for those who feel entitled to speak for God, I believe such people will judge themselves as they are at last freed from the physical antithesis of the spirit they call life. I don't believe God will judge us because I believe God loves us all equally and unconditionally.
I'm an atheist and I don't fear death at all.
If you talk to anyone who works at a cosmopolitan old folks home they will generally tell you that religious people fear death much more than atheists.
It's also been statistically people that people who know people are praying for them do worse after an operation because of stress.
When it comes to death though atheists know that it's the end, but Christians, ahh well, they are about to be judged?
I'm not 100% sure where the fear comes from, but after talking to the people who deal with those close to death of a day to day basis, in three of the places I have lived the local pub has been close to an old folks home, it IS the Christians who fear death.
Now, here I would like to say something, why don't you try doing some research, maybe read a book other than the bible, look at the numerous studies and blind studies that have been done for these kinds of things. When you make statements like you just did, it just makes you look ridiculous.
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