Fulfilled prophesy from bible - "proof" of God's existence?

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   Baileybearposted 14 years ago

   Have read claims from christians of fulfilled prophesies from bible as "proof" of God's existence - some have claimed 700; some have claimed 2000.
   
   Give some examples of fulfilled prophecies that are:
   1. verified by external sources
   2. aren't as general as a horoscope reading
   3. are distinctive enough to stand out from any chance event

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      Baileybearposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      no takers?

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      Baileybearposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      99% of these "prophecies" predicted by the bible and then said to be fulfilled by the bible?

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      Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Prophecies are much like guesswork, you get some hits and you get some misses. The difference is that believers will only focus on the hits.

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         Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Answers to simple math  problems are also guess work when you do not understand the principles correctly.

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            spookyfoxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            At least math has specific principles that can be thaught and understood correctly and precisely, unlike the conveniently vague nature of prophecies, much like astrology, tarot readings, etc.

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            Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Since you have equated prophecies to math, please explain exactly what principles of prophecies you refer and how exactly they relate to mathematical principles?
            
            *crickets chirping* 

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               Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Stopped by the home for a bite of lunch.
               
                  In answer to your question...   Prophesy  are not jelly beans that can all be put in one jar and rolled around until ya see one that you like.
                  We can not line them up in a row ... alternating the colors in a fashion that we like.
                  Ya gotta take them as they come (by their own definition)
               
                  As you have read my statements many times but evidently forgotten.   My belief is ....
               
                  The guidelines to understanding prophesy were explained in the book of Daniel
               
                  62 weeks in prophesy is equal to 568 years (approx.) as we understand a year to be.
               
                 When we ignore this we have no idea as to where to begin.
               
                  Can you imagine studying all of the major wars through out history without having any prospective of the order in which they were fought?
               
                  U. S. history for instance..
               
                  War in Vietnam,  Civil war , War of 1812, Revolutionary war, WWI, Korea , WWII , Bay of Pigs, Cow boys and Indians....
               
                 When I describe these wars and battles without a time line being established there would be absolutely no way for anyone to understand our past.
               
                 The same is true when attempting to understand prophesy.
               
                 A time frame was given and we have ignored it, 
                 We seem to prefer alphabet soup.
               
               
               
               Gota get to work  later.

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                  Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Don't care, really not interested in hearing your day to day activities.
                  
                   
                  
                  I have no idea what you're talking about.
                  
                     
                  
                  I have no idea what you're talking about, it's all just so much gibberish.
                  
                  
                  
                  Not interested in your moment to moment activities.

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                     Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     I am sorry that you have no idea ... 
                     
                       Maybe some day you might get over that condition.

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                        Beelzedadposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        Perhaps, if I ever learn how to read and write gibberish.

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                           peterxdunnposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           The first - and only - principle of prophecy: what goes around, comes around.

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                  spookyfoxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  You were asked to explain the principles of prophecies and all you did was list wars.

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                     Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Oh but I did answer the question.
                     But I'll go into a little more detail.
                     
                     First basic principal if you believe in God. 
                     The messages that is written that God actually spoke should not be changed in any way.  We can not express what he wanted to say better than he did.
                        The messages that were delivered by Gods messenger Gabriel would be exact quotes as to what he was instructed to say.
                     
                        Do any believers have any problem so far?
                     
                        If not?   I'll continue.
                        The visions that Daniel was given were interpreted by Gabriel. They need no further interpretation.
                     
                       These visions were informing Daniel of things that were to come to fulfillment concerning THAT Hebrew Nation.
                     
                        These visions identify the first four kingdoms that is to receive dominion over that Hebrew Nation.
                        These visions were foretelling things that will happen during the reign of Babylon, Persia, Greece and the Roman Empire. If we change this truth to mean something else; The truth will be lost.  No need looking any further.
                        
                        These symbols that were interpreted by Gabriel are later used in the book of revelation. They should be understood the same in Revelation as they were in Daniel (as much as is possible)!
                     
                         There is also a description of a calendar seen in the book of Daniel. This peep at this calendar is essential in understanding the time lines that are expressed through out the prophesy.
                         62 weeks on this calendar is equal to approx. 568 of our years on earth.
                     
                         These principals are all that is necessary to unveil the meanings of all prophesy.

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      pennyofheavenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I often wonder why prophecies hold so much merit with some people. I guess we each have our own way.The bible also warns of false prophets no matter how accurate their prophecies are. Discerning true prophecies therefore could be a whole new vocation in itself. Would it not be more simple to look at what is already existing in creation itself as proof. Perhaps not for some people.

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      Bruce_Leiterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Why do you need external proof about the prophecies (spelled with a "c," not an "s")?  Those prophecies were pretty impressive to me when I, an unbeliever, was investigating the Bible at the age of 16, but they weren't "proof" of the Bible's inspiration. 
      
      However, what God used to convince me was the evidence for Jesus' resurrection.  Let me explain.  It is a fact that the Jews, whose country was occupied by the Romans, eagerly expected the Messiah prophesied in the Old Testament to come and throw the Romans out of the land and be their earthly king.  That is clear from all of the Jewish writings of that time and from the Bible.  They completely ignored passages like Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53, however, that depicted a suffering servant, also fulfilled in Jesus' predictions and actions.
      
      Jesus' disciples also expected to be Jesus' cabinet or advisers when he took over the country's rulership.  When he died an agonizing and painful death on a criminal's cross, they were understandably devastated and discouraged. 
      
      However, something happened on the first day of the week that turned their discouragement to courage to testify to seeing Jesus alive from the dead.  Peter, for example, had denied that he knew Jesus 3 times while Jesus was being tried by the kangaroo court.  Later, he testified to seeing Jesus alive after he died to the very people who crucified Jesus, though they could have killed Peter, who endured all persecution holding on to his story.
      
      John, who saw the Roman soldier stab Jesus to make sure that he was dead, was persecuted for his testimony about Jesus' resurrection to be finally exiled to the prison island of Patmos, Revelation 1.  He held to his testimony as well against persecution.
      
      Paul was changed on the road to Damascus from a persecutor to a preacher of Jesus.  What did he consistently testify to that changed him, even before kings who could have taken his life?  He said that he saw the risen Jesus in a bright light on that road.  He too is a credible witness like John and Peter, because they all held to their stories against all opposition when their lives were on the line.
      
      As a 16-year-old, I reasoned that if I made up such a tale, I would have given it up the minute the lions came at me in the Roman Colisseum.  None of the eyewitnesses recanted their experiences. 
      
      How do we know that any historical events happened, except for reliable witnesses?  The biblical witnesses are very believable because of their lives and deaths.  For example, Peter was crucified upside-down due to his faith because he did not feel worthy of dying the same way Jesus did.   
      
      Therefore, I reasoned, Jesus rose from the dead, and his resurrection confirms the Bible's truth, who God is, the Old Testament's preparation for his coming, and the New Testament's explanation of his divine mission.  That's how God guided me to being a believer in the 3-in-1 God of the Bible, which he convinced me were his inspired writtings.

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         Randy Godwinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         What makes you believe the gospels, written "according to" the alleged New Testament authors, are really true?  I mean, other than your wanting for them to be true, or being told by God inside your head.  There were many books which once comprised the history of your faith.  Common people kept those they liked and discarded those they didn't.
         
         Much of the NT has been changed to better suit the ideas of what "church" bigwigs wanted it to be, or to try and make sense out of nonsensical examples of scripture in the book.  Some was intentionally changed hundreds of years ago and has been admitted to by high church officials. 
         
         If it was such a miracle for Jesus to be born, then why is most of his life such a secret?  Wouldn't every move of such a young god-to-be be, be watched and recorded?  And show me something Jesus actually wrote himself, not merely hearsay second or third hand information.  Was Jesus illiterate? 
         
         If he had the ability to write, there should be plenty of evidence as I cannot fathom someone throwing away his autograph.  Perhaps a good question for the forums.

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            habeeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I've always wondered if Jesus could write...

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   aka-djposted 14 years ago

   I can think of one off the top of my head.
   Israel becoming a nation again. Back in the Middle East.

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      Baileybearposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      self-fulfilled? 
      Got another thousand or so up your sleeve?

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         aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Just HOW do you suppose that's self-fulfilled?
         
         When all nations are disintegrating (eg frmr Yugoslavia, USSR ), Israel is regrouping. Jews from all over the planet returning to their historic homeland, and that to all the troubles there.
         Kinda against the norm, don't you think?

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            Baileybearposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            give yourself 1 if you like.  How about 999 more?  Or 1999 more if believe some claims

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               aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               I never claimed 1000, nor 2000.
               You asked for some, I gave you one.
               It's close to bedtime, I can't think much more.
               
               

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                  Baileybearposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  no, but other christians recently posted huge numbers - I think one said 700 and the other 2000

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               brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               and then what if we miss one you will you will call us a not so nice name. lol
               
               find them yourself

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                  Woman Of Courageposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Lol

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                  Baileybearposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  I can't find any and I doubt you can too

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                     Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     You are not going to find anything that ya already know that you are not going to find.

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                     brotheryochananposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     
                     
                     nice inference as usual
                     
                     http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/messianic.htm
                     
                     what was that other link i emailed you?
                     
                     i can be emailed

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            sandra rinckposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I suppose it like this.
            
            The Bible says you have to do its' will.
            The Bible said, Israel will become a nation.
            People believe that you have to 'fulfill' the book.
            
            People made Israel a nation again because they believed that it is supposed to be that way.  People who believe it, justify it with the Bible, they Bible says so therefore it is true.
            
            If the prophetic books were never read and written and tucked away somewhere and discovered in another 1000 years from now after all of it was fulfilled, then it would be different.
            
            However that isn't the case.  So what it is, is self fulfilling.  They read it, they believe it, they fulfill it... Because the Bible said so, they do what it says.

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   Jeramiposted 14 years ago

   After I give you many, many examples of prophesy that have been validated by historians as having been fulfilled, you will then just say that these prophesy was written long after the event.
   Or you will say that I can not prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the fulfillment as I point to, is but MY Interpretation.
   
      I can not convince a person of anything when they refuse to believe anything.
   
      The entire book of Daniel is a list of prophesy that were fulfilled long ago.
   those prophesy describe the first four kingdoms that are to receive dominion over the earth (Jerusalem)
     The wilderness as mentioned in scripture refers to all that is out side of Israel.
      
      If you will accept prophesy as written as scripture  worthy of searching for answers to, it can be done!
   
     But it is kinda like when your car won't start. You don't know why?
      If I tell you that your battery isn't grounder properly, and you dismiss that as a reasonable answer, but proceed searching for a more complicated one not finding it,  we seldom return to those ideas that have already been rejected. We keep looking out past the horizon.  WHY?

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      getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      
      
      Jerami, it is you who search for the complicated answer instead of the simplest.
      
      The simplest answer is that the bible has been debunked again and again, and rightfully so, it has no validity or authority.
      
      Do you really think your rant is the simplest answer?  Really?
      You are spending all this time trying to assert that nonsense is not absurd.
      
      This is pure wishful thinking.

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   Jeramiposted 14 years ago

   getitrite  wrote 
     You are spending all this time trying to assert that nonsense is not absurd.
   
   
     Believe me ... I recognoze nonsense when I see it.. and it is absurb.

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      getitriteposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      
      
      Glad you agree.  Now if only you could stop it.
      But that would require more honesty than a Christian mind could muster.

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   Jeramiposted 14 years ago

   The OP ask for proof of prophesy fulfilled.
   
       After eating the little book that tasted like honey in the mouth but was bitter in the belly
   
       Rev. 10:11  ...And he said unto ME, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples and nations and tongues and kings.
   
      Shortly after John received this message, he was released from Patmos (96 AD) and returned to Ephesus and continued to preach.  Though his dearth is not recorded there are said to be documents in the Catholic Church library that says that John was still alive close to the end of the first decade of the second century.
   
      So this prophesy was fulfilled.  He may or may not have actually preached in many nations; but he did preach to peoples that returned to their native homes in many nations bringing Johns prophecies with them to share
   
     I see this one as definitely having been fulfilled.

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   Jeramiposted 14 years ago

   sandra rinck wrote ...
   I suppose it like this.
   
   The Bible says you have to do its' will.
   The Bible said, Israel will become a nation.
   People believe that you have to 'fulfill' the book.
   - - - - - - -
   
      NO    those verses say that the Hebrew people will be gathered again.
   
      This was said during a time that the Hebrew people were scattered(590ish BC. or before)
      They were gathered back together as prophesy foretold
   (At that time in history when Cyrus sent them back to build a temple138 BC,  and this WAS  fulfilled.
   
      Scriptures does not mention them being Gathered together again though it does mention a  LAST (last)days of indignation.
      Which is a totally different one than the days of indignation that they went through back in the first century and early second century.
     Then it mentions a  LAST last days of ignition as in the second one. that the s 7th trumpet is sounded and the 7th bowl is poured out.
   
     That is all that we are waiting on.  The rest has been done.
   ======================================================
   
   
   People made Israel a nation again because they believed that it is supposed to be that way.  People who believe it, justify it with the Bible, they Bible says so therefore it is true.
   
   If the prophetic books were never read and written and tucked away somewhere and discovered in another 1000 years from now after all of it was fulfilled, then it would be different.
   
   However that isn't the case.  So what it is, is self fulfilling.  They read it, they believe it, they fulfill it... Because the Bible said so, they do what it says.
   
   - - - - -
   
   
     Yea it is harder to see while it  WAS   going on.
     But they (the prophesy)  weren't hidden while it was going on.
   
     So we don't even have that as an excuse.

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   Jeramiposted 14 years ago

   If people could just pretend that everything that Jesus prophesied in Matthew 24 was fulfilled in that generation, which isn't hard to do if we read the history
   of first century Jerusalem. 
      All of those things did come upon those people.
   
      Then; most all of the prophesy written in Revelations can also be seen as having come to fulfillment through out history.

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   pisean282311posted 14 years ago

   prophesies are wonderful things...it can be interpretated in thousand different ways and some or other event do get fit in it...prophesies from all books do always come true

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   hanging outposted 14 years ago

   Gods prophecies always come true because it comes from a God incapable of lying.
   
   1 Kings 20:22   And the prophet came to the king of Israel, and said unto him, Go, strengthen thyself, and mark, and see what thou doest: for at the end of the year the king of Syria will come up against thee.
   
   notice the prediction of FUTURE events
   
   1 Kings 20:26   And it came to pass at the end of the year, that Benhadad numbered the Syrians, and went up to Aphek, to fight against Israel.
   
   oh my
   
   Isaiah 7:8   For the head of Syria is Damascus, and the head of Damascus is Rezin; and within threescore and five years shall Ephraim be broken, that it be not a people.
   
   God goes on to predict 35yrs in the future....
   How can one not believe in bible prophecy when God and the Bible are foretelling events to come in the future? Its all through the bible, cover to cover.

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