Spiderpam has aggressively accused me of never having been a christian (I am ex-born-again-ex-pentecostal christian).
I see her as a christian extremist. She says she is non-denominational.
Who or what is a "true" christian.
Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil! People who do this!
A true Christian is supposed to be Christ like.
How many do you know who are Christ like?
I have snuck in once again into the forums, and saw you had a post. I don't know what has transpired between you and spiderman but it doesn't sound like it was a rather nice comment.I'm sorry if you were hurt by this remark.
I just want to say that throughout the New Testament there are sayings like "so called brethren" "wolves in sheeps clothing" "they were with us but were never truly a part of us"
These are warnings to believers to test the teachings of those who are in leadership or who have entered into the community of believers and are espousing a teaching that is contrary to the simple gospel of Jesus Christ.
Nowadays, with so much traveling, technology the christian community can only test some leaders by hearing or reading what other leaders are preaching. One can test these teachings against the word of God and come to the conclusion whether or not it is sound doctrine. That was the overall meaning to these warnings.
Perhaps spidey misunderstood your writing and wasn't quite sure that you were ever a Christian and just wrote that to comment. Perhaps, I don't know, I just don't want you to feel irritated by a comment that could have been made out of context.
I don't want you to feel bad okay? That's all, your kitty picture is too cute to let me think of you being upset.
In order to answer who is a true Christian? In reference to the scripture verses mentioned above, it is a person who adheres to the teachings of Christ without changing, deluding, adding, or subtracting anything from them.
I think you know that there are a lot of preachers teaching gospels that are not the true gospel of Jesus Christ. You might ask, what is the true gospel? According to the scriptures, the gospel is really clear, consice, simple and to the point. In 1 Corinthians 15:1-3
Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas,[b] and then to the and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.
Basically a True Believer in Christ Jesus is one who has believed:
1. God the Father sent the Son to die for our sins in accordance to what the prophets of Old Testament had foretold.
2. That he was buried and that after three days was raised from the dead, just as it was foretold by the prophets of Old.
3. He appeard to several 100 people after His resurrection to be witnesses of this event.
When one truly believes that God would send His only begotten Son, to die for a rebellious and ungrateful child, one's heart can either melt in gratitude or shun it as being unfounded.
When a believer testifies that they believe that all the prophecies concerning the coming of the Messiah and his first advent have been fulfilled, one is literally saying that God is faithful to complete that which He has set out to do even until the end.
When a believer has been convicted by the gospel and moved to repentance, this means that they are no longer willing to walk in the way they choose but will walk in light of the will and word of God.
When a believer has come to a sound acceptance to the gospel of Jesus Christ, there is a longing to live one's life in love.
Understanding that the moment we accept Christ as Lord and Savior of and over our life we are declared to be "justified" (just as if I had never sinned). Immediate justification before the Father.
However, sanctification is another process all together in one's walk. It is the process by which we begin to grow in our maturity through the power of the Holy Spirit indwelling within us. It is a processional act because sanctification is a setting apart of sinful ways and choosing to walk in the light. This doesn't happen overnight and so many Christians are at different walks in their life. Some are more mature than others depending on how much they have willingly surrendered to God's will.
So a true believer is one that accepts the gospel of JC as Truth, accepts the Lord Jesus to be the Savior and Master of one's life. Immediately professing faith and repenting of ones prior life. Declared justified by God and filled with the Holy Spirit to be born again from above. You are now a new creation in Christ Jesus all things have passed away. All our sins are gone before the Father because we chose to depend fully on the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross to be the only means by which a sinner can be saved.
I always like to use these three words to remind me what it means to be a true Christian.
A - Always Adhering to the word of God and to the leading of His Spirit
R - Readily Relying on God and His Spirit to save our souls, regenerate our spirit, fill us with his Spirit, and begin to work out our salvation with fear and trembling knowing that it is God who is at work in us to produce in us the will of God which is good, holy and perfect.
T - Totally Trusting in Christ Jesus to be who he says he is, to do what He says he will do, and to be True to all that He has promised.
The Acronym ART can help others remember the Christian's walk.
Last a "true believer" believes and cleaves to the Lord Jesus Christ and follows Him out of a deep sense of gratitude and love for what He did for us and for Who He is. Love was the motivational factor that the Son came to earth to fulfill His role; the true believer in turn is motivated only by love for the Savior who gave it all to save our souls, just so that we could live eternally with Him.
I often get saddened when others make the gospel such a do this and dont do that and this is how you will be saved. If you are not perfect then you are not going to heaven. blah blah blah
There is only one Perfect, his name is God. We come to God in a broken state in need of reconciliation and that is what our faith in Jesus has provided. We now have open access to the Father through his Son Jesus, and filled with his Spirit in order that we would not be left alone as orphans but that we would have a Comforter, a Teacher, a living and continual presence of God within His people.
So there you have it my friend. A True Christian is all the above.
Anyone who simply says I have faith but doesn't put that faith into action then it is a dead faith. One without value because true faith causes the true believer to totally surrender one's self to God and allows Him through the power of His Spirit to sanctify us and to help us in our processional sanctification.
Unfortunately, many people say o yeah I'm a Christian, but when you start speaking with them you recognize that they themselves are not Christians, they were born into a Christian heritage and are considered Christians. You know like the "social Catholic" thing. Everyone says their Catholic but when it comes to obeying the Pope well that's a different story all together.
Many leaders have called themselves Christians and have done irreprehensible damage to others without remorse or regret of their action. Some are in it for the mere power, money, grandeur, position, title and these are the men that the scripture warns about and calls them "so called Christans" They called themselves Christians but placing their lives on a magnifying glass one clearly sees that they are not by their actions, their words, and their teachings.
I hope this clarifies a little about what people mean when they say a true believer. With that said, let us remember and offer grace to some people who are babes in Christ (you know there are people who have been saved for 25 years and are still only babes). Many times they will do and say things that are not in keeping with a Christian's walk. Sometimes the things they say cause others to stumble and walk away from other Christians.
This is why it is so important and crucial to our salvation to keep our eyes on the Author and Finisher of our Faith, to learn from His word His will and to allow His Spirit to grow Christ's character in us as we humbly relinquish our sinful desires in order to attain God's good holy and perfect will for our life. Too many have fallen victim to wolves in sheep's clothing as well that they have chosen to leave the faith, but one's faith was never to be placed on others but on our Lord Jesus Christ.
Well, baileybear, a lot to read, but hopefully clear enough to understand. I do hope that at the end you and spidey come to an amicable communication as co-laborers on hubpages.
Blessings my friend. TTFN
Are there many that are "independent" - non-denominational? I'm quite of wondering if the "moderate" christians would find this person over-the-top? It's SpiderPam, not spiderman - on my hubs about deconverting from christianity, unintelligent design, Darwin.
Actually Baileybear the rise on non-denominational "local churches" is at its utmost. For example all the Calvary Chapel affiliates are non-denominational, Emerging Church (aka: Emergent movement or emergent conversation)are all non-denominational. The leaving of main stream denominations and going to non-affiliate, tolerant, and more liberal church communities is on the rise for the past ten years; more so these last five years have been predominant in this move.
Unfortunately, there is no accountability to a set standard of teaching, doctrine or creed. Anything goes.
When that happens then you have a whole load of people calling themselves Christians but have no idea what it is to be a christian because our life is centered on Christ Jesus, His word, will and His abundant grace and love.
Furthermore, there are many unaccountable small churches with no known background. Their leaders pop up out of nowhere and people come because it says a Christian church. By the time they know it, they have entered into a place that does not speak biblical sound doctrine.
Last, let me just say that there is also a point of view from the Calvinist doctrine that says one can not lose their salvation. They are adamant in their belief. Once saved always saved because the work is not based on you but on God.
Hence, if you walked away it is because you never were a true Christian. The foundation of this belief is if you were truly born again of God, you can not die. What is death? Eternal separation of God and His presence.
If your spirit was regenerated and filled with his Spirit, you are unable to undue that work. It is God through his Spirit regenerating your spirit. This is a profound truth in Scripture.
It has become rheotoric to say "I am a born again believer" without understanding the foundational truth behind the words "born again"
Because of the loss of understanding to this pertenant step in the Lord's regenerative work in our spirit, people will use the terminology as if to say it was a particular denomination.
If there is a loss of understanding, a loss of Truth, a loss of conviction it is because the multitudes are not being taught the truth. Remember though, there are many leaders preaching biblical foundations and giving understanding to the community of God, but too many prefer the hype and "superspiritual" experience than the deeper conviction of faith in Jesus Christ.
I hope this helps to clarify this situation and help you perhaps understand the motives of the person writing to you.
Someone who is indoctrinated into one of the many Christian beliefs systems.
For one to be a "true" Christian they of necessity be false, otherwise they cannot be a christian.
Christians are nothing and everything at the same time.
Just go around asking true christians, who are they, their varied unending responses would likely take a very long time and you would end (if you get ever there), right where you begin.....false
Jesus sure was not judgemental...
imitating Jesus is not easy, but we can strive to do it.
Now if all the bigots and nutcases would only be like you and try to be like their jesus - wouldn't the world get peaceful and quiet !
Do you call all the Buddhists, Taoists, and Muslims you run into there in China "bigots and nutcases"?
absolutely.... he set us a marvellous example, of course he was perfect so we cannot attain to his high standard. I honestly do try, and my husband he has him imitated down to a t... and my sons do a good job also i have to say........ It's an on going thing.... but it does reap rewards.
Jesus was quite judgmental. He was challenging, and difficult, and demanding. You might recall he got a lot of people mad at him.
people were not really mad at him, just mad about the things he preached about. He really was not judgemental, He got angry, yes, he had righteous indignation, yes, but he did not judge people.
Maybe but he did love a prostitute and other criminals, I suspect he judged those so arrogant as to think they have the right to judge others, kinda a lesson of sorts
Only God can judge.
Isn’t' the main fear for Christian is going to hell.
Why are you worried Baileybear?
"Only God can judge."
See my comments above.
I believe hell is just another name for the common grave, i never fear it.
That is a view you are welcome to but it is not Christian.
It is true though. How could a loving god, torment people forever, he would not do it.....
HE doesn't. Get yourself to church and ask the pastor to explain it to you.
Bailey bear - I wouldn't if I were you , the pastor is the biggest problem - the christian message is not the problem it is the translated message that causes all the problems - and the translators numbers are made up of unusually high numbers of bigots and plain iggerant people it would appear.
I'm sorry that you have so obviously been harmed somewhere along the way, but maybe someday you'll be ready to open your mind. You are certainly entitled to your prejudices and opinions. I guess Joy56 can decide for herself if she wants to have a conversation with an expert on the subject who probably wants to help her understand, or to uncritically take up the intolerance of someone on the internet.
If any of hem were expert on 'the subject' it might be more attractive - but they are not. They are plain ordinary people with training in one or another one-sided narrow view of the words they are unable to grasp the true meaning of.
And I am the least inolerant person you are likely to find - except in the case of morons peddling yet another version of a discredited religion. And I am well aware that Joy or Baileybear are perfectly able to make up their own minds, we discuss these ideas together frequently enough - but then you would already know that Sab.
And what exactly is your qualification to determine that a trained Christian theologian is not an expert on the subject?
You claim to be "the least intolerant person you are likely to find" and then immediately make highly intolerant statements. This is not consistent.
How is stating the truth that the translations are in error, prejudice?
Everyone who lives a clean life for God, is not called a Christian
I think this is directed toward Castlepaloma I don't know if it was you who said "the fear for the Christians is hell"
Well, as a god-fearing woman may i say that it was not fear of hell that brought me to Christ. What brought me to Christ was His pure unalterable extravagant and radiant LOVE. No greater love have I ever found in this journey on earth.
Fear of hell
I honesty can't think of anything else that draws as much mass to Christianity. Most of the World can love without Jesus. (Most of the World is not aware of Jesus)
People and other animal evolve, so will evolution continue.
What will shrink faster Rock and Roll or Christianity?
In reply to your comment that most of the world doesn't know about Jesus, just thought I would share these statistics from
Major Religions of the World
Ranked by Number of Adherents
1.Christianity: 2.1 billion 33%
2.Islam: 1.5 billion 21%
3.Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion 16%
4.Hinduism: 900 million 14%
5.Chinese traditional religion: 394 million 6%
6.Buddhism: 376 million 6%
7.primal-indigenous: 300 million 6%
8.African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million 6%
9.Sikhism: 23 million 0.36%
10.Juche: 19 million 0.22%
11.Spiritism: 15 million
12.Judaism: 14 million
13.Baha'i: 7 million
14.Jainism: 4.2 million
15.Shinto: 4 million
16.Cao Dai: 4 million
17.Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million
18.Tenrikyo: 2 million
19.Neo-Paganism: 1 million
20.Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
21.Rastafarianism: 600 thousand
22.Scientology: 500 thousand
Last may I just say that it is not man's love, but God's love that I have never experienced before. Yes love exists in various form, but "agape" is divine love. Unconditional love for another, no matter what, they love you for all eternity. Selfless, giving, caring, kind, full of mercy and grace. No other love can compare to God's love because God is love.
Humans have love one for another, but we are not love. This is why I say I have never known any greater love than God.
Like I said, Jesus is not the be all and end all and the only truth and way to (Yahweh) God. Most people do not repent the name Jesus over and over again and most people are not aware of Jesus. I know first hand because I have traveled 94 countries. Only 3% go to church out of the1/3 of the people of the world, who are Christians. I prefer my ultimate love to be my job and the women who enhances my soul the most, no offence to Jesus I hope.
No, I'm not worried. I'm just curious as to how these people tick, and whether they are seen as extremists by other people of the faith they profess.
I personally believe that a "true" Christian doesn't exist. A person's definition of a "true" Christian all depends on who you ask. Ask 10 different people, you get 10 different answers. People act like this is a popularity contest, who cares? Some people will say a true Christian is Christ like. So what was Christ like? Nobody knows what Jesus was like even if he existed at all. Nothing was writen about Jesus till about 30 years after he died by a bunch of biographers who never met him. He's depicted as a well dressed,, sinless guy who resembles Barry Gibb more than a poor Jew of the Arab culture. He probably liked to have a stiff drink and have a good time with the ladies like any other guy. We simply don't know and will ever know.
Not even Jesus was a "Christian"; he was a Jew and a son of man.
Jesus was a truthful Messenger Prophet of the Creator -God Allah YHWH.
Funny how Jesus was Jew... yet the Qu'ran talks of killing jews and Christians alike! Hmmm... Yet God called a Jew,,, as you believe-- to do his work! LOL!!! Such nonsense in your teachings Paarsurrey! Jesus was A Jew... very true! But that's about the only thing I've read in your posts that were accurate!
Considering that christianity has no solid 'requirements'. The "book" that is heavily worshiped is a smashed grouping of older belief's that generally men couldn't handle. Men thrive on control thus war and Jihad's don't stop violating the rules of the commandments kill in the name of 'god' but break the rules YOU set NOT 'it'. Therefore there can be no TRUE christian the religion if one can call it that is in itself untrue.
It would seem, that a "true" Christian is one that stays "TRUE" to their faith in Christ.
That relationship is between him/her and Christ, and is not open for debate to others.
Scripture says that He is the Judge of His servant, and not another. So, ultimately, we cannot truly know who IS and who IS NOT a true Christian.
As someone has once said, we may be quite surprised to find people in Heaven we thought would not be there, and who we thought were surely going to be there, and were not.
My definition comes from the Nicene Creed(no compulsion)...
I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, the maker of heaven and earth, of things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the begotten of God the Father, the Only-begotten, that is of the essence of the Father.
God of God, Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten and not made; of the very same nature of the Father, by Whom all things came into being, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible.
Who for us humanity and for our salvation came down from heaven, was incarnate, was made human, was born perfectly of the holy virgin Mary by the Holy Spirit.
By whom He took body, soul, and mind, and everything that is in man, truly and not in semblance.
He suffered, was crucified, was buried, rose again on the third day, ascended into heaven with the same body, [and] sat at the right hand of the Father.
He is to come with the same body and with the glory of the Father, to judge the living and the dead; of His kingdom there is no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, in the uncreated and the perfect; Who spoke through the Law, prophets, and Gospels; Who came down upon the Jordan, preached through the apostles, and lived in the saints.
We believe also in only One, Universal, Apostolic, and [Holy] Church; in one baptism in repentance, for the remission, and forgiveness of sins; and in the resurrection of the dead, in the everlasting judgement of souls and bodies, and the Kingdom of Heaven and in the everlasting life
Regarding nondenominational churches not having any doctrine, that's not exactly true. They suck you in with half-truths like that. Nondenominational is a good marketing term. They still believe the bible is the inerrant word of god, jesus is virgin born and the only way to salvation.
Ummm, what was I gonna say? Oh yeah, true christian. There is a segment of christianity which strongly believes in once saved always saved. Perseverance of the saints. You didn't persevere, so obviously you ain't and never was no saint. See how simple it is?
They can't help it, Bailey. They were just trying to explain to you -and no doubt out of the goodness of their hearts- that if you really got saved, that then Jesus would keep you saved. See?
It was a matter of doctrine, which is almost as much as saying god himself told him, and if they talk to God then there's just no reasoning with that.
Silliness. What ya gonna do?
I think you should give it another go. Maybe you just haven't found the right church yet.
What I think of when I hear the words "True Christian" is someone who completely models their life after Jesus. If one was to be a "true christian" then why do they need all 66 books of the bible...If they are only following the Teachings of Jesus...then they only need Mathew, Mark, Luke, John and Revelations as those are the only 5 books that Jesus is reputed to have spoken in...(I say reputed because he didn't actually write down the words himself) All the remainder books of the bible are of no use to a "true christian" as they only follow the teachings of Jesus. The majority of the NT was written by Saul/Paul, who was giving instructions to the various church branches via letters. So those letters (books) don't need to be used because they are the teaching of Paul about Jesus (who he never even met by the way. Paul came along after the "resurrection"). Actually to be completely honest "true christians" can't even follow any part of the bible, because none of it was actually written by Jesus...and if you read the bible you will see that even the 12 chosen ones didn't even understand most of what he taught...He was constantly explaining it to them as well in private. It wasn't until after they received the "holy spirit" that they finally "understood". So we now have a situation in which the ones who followed now think they have an understanding and the instructor is no longer available to test that knowledge for accuracy. But for the sake of this discussion we will assume that at least the 11 members that was left of the original 12 and the one extra that was selected via prayer that the lots select the one meant to join ( divination by the way) since they were with Jesus for his whole 3.5 years of ministries, that they are to be considered an authority on the teachings of Jesus as well. So now we can add in the books of Acts, James and 1st,2nd,3rd John, 1st,2nd Peter, and Jude. So we are looking at a total of 13 books for the "true christian" to model their life after. So lets look at this a little deeper. In the four gospels, Jesus say that to be his disciple one must forgo all things and follow him. He also told the rich man that in addition to following the commandmants he must sell all he owns and give to the poor. He also say that you must do charitable work in private. He also said that you must humble yourselves, to take the lowest seat at the table. He also says judge not, lest you be judged. and by the same measure that you judge, likewise will you be judged ( so if you used the bible to judge others, expect them to also use it to judge you). He also said to love your neighbor as yourself. (must be alot of so called christians who don't like themselves). He also said that is someone takes your clothes to also give them your cloak. and that if you have 2 cloaks and your "brother" has none to give him one. He also said to go out and tell others of the kingdom of god (not you notice force it on them or condemn them) and to do this you must only take what you have and nothing extra and to reley on the kindness of others to meet your needs. He also taught that you should have complete faith and in that faith you will have the ability to heal, cast out unclean spirits, raise the dead, walk on water and various other miracles. And if you read the last verse of the last chapter of St John, you will note that Jesus did many other things but would take to many books to write them all...so we have at best an incomplete works concerning the teachings of Jesus. Also of note, in reading the bible you will notice that on more than one occasion Jesus was not apt to do anything for the "non-Jew" as he was sent to the Jewish or Chosen people for their salvation. but since the majority of the Jews shunned him he also accepted in part the non-Jews. You will also notice that when he used stories to prove who was more rightous, that he used the "non-Jew" I.E. the good Samaritan. You know that Jesus also used the Scriptures ( The Law and the Prophets) to argue against the teachings of the "Church" of his time as well.
So with all this being said...Who is the "true christian"...Hmmm I am thinking that this might be a "creature of myth" because in my first 20 years of being that devout Wesleyan Holiness Christian to my past 16 years as being something more of a Paganistic view, I have never, ever, met in my almost 37 years, anyone who even comes close to what I have read in the bible concerning the life and teachings of Jesus.
Now in closing, I would like to say, that these are just my thoughts and opinions only based off what I have read and what I have been taught concerning the bible and other "scripture" or "sacred texts" and then making an observation of those Theological teachings.
Hopefully I didn't offend anyone as this was not my intent.
I agree with you.
Not even Jesus was a Christian; he was a Jew and follower of Moses and he did not found Christianity, it is a misnomer and invented by sinful Paul but cleverly named after Jesus. It has nothing to do with Jesus.
Paar... I think you need to discuss what Muhammad invented more and stop discussing the Bible!
Jesus was a Jew... the Qu'ran says to kill Jews and Christians!
I don't think God would send Jesus, or even if you believe, as you do, that Jesus was his prophet (yawn), then say to lay in wait to kill them!
Muhammad was the false prophet! Why do you keep discussing it? Worry about your own religion! Try to find dirt to fill your own gaps!!
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