Christians : How do you define true christian?
Oh, I have more faith in people than that. They may have strayed from the path they set out on, but the message of Jesus is what brought them there in the first place. I'm sure they'll find their footing if they try.
Paul is downed by everyone. The same people raise up Christ. Christ CHOSE Paul. Double standard for those claims. Paul taught for Christ whom Christ chose. I don't see how it's a 'follow one or the other' agenda.
Paul was previously "Saul" prior to Jesus recruiting him.
Acts 26:14-18
14 And when we had all fallen to the ground, I heard a voice saying to me in the Hebrew language, 1 ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.’ 15 And I said, ‘Who are you, Lord?’ And the Lord said, ‘I am Jesus whom you are persecuting. 16 But rise and stand upon your feet, for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to appoint you as a servant and witness to the things in which you have seen me and to those in which I will appear to you, 17 delivering you from your people and from the Gentiles—to whom I am sending you 18 to open their eyes, so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’
true christian?
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- BunuBobuposted 13 years ago
0This is just my view.
I claim Christ, no denomination died on a cross for my sins to be forgiven.
I am a Christian.That's lovely. So am I. I have chosen a denomination, however, and offer no apologies for having done so. That post was in response to another individual, not a statement demanding that everyone should claim any of the mentioned denominations. But, thank you for acknowledging the post, and enjoy your walk with Jesus.
I didn't see it as a demand. Just sharing my view.
I grew up in a Baptist environment, but felt each denomination kind of pulled me away from Christ. I don't condemn them, I think anyone serving Christ is awesome no matter if they choose a denomination or not. And my responses are typically for everyone, as I try not to leave anyone out. Wasn't 'aiming' at you I promise.
Interesting response to my post. I was actually originally speaking to broaden the scope of what you had said about Christian v. Catholic. I must have missed the mark in my attempt to do that. The point I was originally shooting for was that though there are many denominations, still it is generalized that Catholics are not Christians. I also find it hugely interesting that you talk about how you don't want to be - in regard to me - a part of "your religion." If you mean religion in general, I completely understand your point, and wish you all the best in your liberated walk as a human being. If you mean that you don't want to be a part of it because I'm one of those rotten, stinking Christians (and you like Catholics better), you might find it interesting to know that I am Catholic. Not only are we frequently criticized by other Christians, the same assumption is made about us that is often made about those who do not believe in Christianity...that we're headed straight to hell. I, contrary to your assumption, am one of those among whom you claim to feel more comfortable. But, you don't know that because your truth is in your assumption and was not garnered as a result of asking what I actually believe.
Knowing that I'm Catholic may convince you now that I do, in fact, accept you, regardless of the fact that you may think, feel, behave, or believe differently than I do. It may, perhaps, take away some of the defensiveness with which you responded to my post. I tend to think that will not be the case, but I can hope that it is.
All the best to you!
Not entirely. His words were meant to clarify the intent of the law. From my understanding the laws had created an insane and burdensome religious structure. He taught in the streets and fields, outside of the synagogues. He stayed on the move, not letting structure build up around him. His message was to have faith in your ability to connect without the structure of religion. To seek from within. But that got lost pretty quickly. Organized Christianity and Islam have proven that.
I like your philosophy and I have no doubt there is room for hope. I saw too much as a kid to think I could ever make a difference, or have the stomach to try. I have always given the church the benefit of the doubt and assumed there were more good people than bad. You are obviously one of the good ones.
As to the need for structure? You are right. Most people enjoy camaraderie of those who think as they do, and I'm sure there are moments when you feel the spirit within that group. I have met a kind and decent pastor or two who probably did a fine job leading his flock. I actually had a catholic priest hunt me down and step up to the plate to fight to let my first husband die with dignity when the doctors were going against his wishes, and doing it behind my back.
Maybe it's the terminology, or the idea of flocking. I don't know I simply hate to follow and get uncomfortable with anyone that looks at me to tell them what to think.
Christ endorses Churches. He gives them instructions in Revelations.
All of Chapters 2 and 3 in Revelations are instructions to Churches. If He did not endorse going to Church, I'm sure the instruction would have been much shorter to the effect of "Stop going to Church." Wouldn't take much more than that to get the point across. -- 2 Whole chapters is a pretty sound endorsement.I used to feel the same, now well.....
Call me a christian and I will take it as an insult. Since you are online, I wont take it as a deep insult tho
Jesus used scriptures. I'm sorry you think it wrong for me to follow His example.
good one.
Good point!
"""The words "true christian" are always used to critize someone who doesn't believe the same things you do. There is no such thing as a "true christian" and it's more likely a fallacy, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Sc … uot;"
"No true Scotsman is an intentional logical fallacy, an ad hoc attempt to retain an unreasoned assertion. When faced with a counterexample to a universal claim, rather than denying the counterexample or rejecting the original universal claim, this fallacy modifies the subject of the assertion to exclude the specific case or others like it."
This has so many holes in it that it sincerely saddens me such was posted.
A "Scotsman" does not have a single person with specific teachings on which to follow. That is a false assertion as Christ Jesus gave many examples and instructions on how to live. And the people that believe in Him and live by His rules are Christians.
Christians have guidelines where a "Scotsman" does not.
Your wiki link is against your own claim:
"When the statement "all A are B" is qualified like this to exclude those A which are not B, this is a form of begging the question; the conclusion is assumed by the definition of "true A".
Christians have a "true A" ---> Christ... ian...
One person, which is Christ Jesus, who is "true A" that sets the "definition" of what an actual Christian is.
Please refer to my below posts for the completed explanation.
God bless...
- Motown2Chitownposted 13 years ago0
I think asking someone to define, or give an example of a "true" Christian is a bit unfair. Unfortunately, even Christians are fallible, broken, and incomplete human beings. If you're asking who/what the perfect Christian is, there isn't one. Period. We are all simply striving to be like the One we love and follow.
And, Jesus wasn't historically "Christian." He was a Jew. Born and bred in the Middle East, which gives me the strange idea that perhaps he wasn't blue-eyed with blond, flowing hair as he's often pictured in bibles around the world. I like to think he looked something like Naveen Andrews (Sayid from Lost) - although he isn't even Middle Eastern. He's of Indian descent. But, he's beautiful, and I think the next movie made about Jesus should cast him as the star.Umm, perhaps I should have very clearly stated that I was referring to the question posed earlier in the thread "Was Jesus a Christian?" No, He was not. He was a Jew. I didn't say that it mattered in terms of defining "true" Christianity. It was simply a statement about His human history.
As to ethnicity, I was not referring to Jesus' ethnicity for any other reason than to point out that many "true" Christians seem to think he was blonde with blue eyes. Having been born and bred in the Middle East to a woman who was also born and bred in the Middle East, I think it's far more likely that His appearance, which is ultimately of little importance, was not what many believe it to be. My later references to ethnicity were in regard to Naveen Andrews (the actor).
The OP asked how you define a true Christian and stated that someone else had said that a true Christian will never speak badly of anyone.
I stated that Christians are imperfect and fallible and broken human beings who do the things that other human beings do. I did not in any way say or imply that they should not or are not held to higher standards of conduct."I was referring to the question posed earlier in the thread "Was Jesus a Christian?" No, He was not."
Let me rephrase:
The answer is: "No, He cannot be a Christian."
Christ CANNOT be a "Christian" if He is the CAUSE of Christianity for that would mean He followed Himself. Which is absurdity. You cannot follow and lead. That is an absolute contradiction.
Definition of Christian
believer in Jesus Christ as savior: somebody whose religion is Christianity
Christ is not His own Savior. He is THE Savior. Therefore He cannot be a Christian, who are people saved by Him.
God bless you.
~DanielNo doubt about it Motown ,Jesus was easy on the eye
some say rugged,some say ..oh I forget now
I say ...All Good.
The funny thing about is even if Jesus were pink with purple spots ,certain people would still argue the details
We humans by nature live o dissect everything lol
Agree some here ,puts me in mind of the saying:
All it takes for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing.
I love God,I try not to be insincere and I definately would rather show it action than to just spout about my beliefs
So - being a Christian is meaningless in that case? As none of you agree on what it is to be Christian - thankfully you have stopped killing each other over it - what value calling yourself a label, claiming there are billions of you and then contradicting yourself by saying you don't believe the rubbish all the others do?
And yes - all atheists think all self-professed Christians are sheeple. Because you are.
Thanks, Mark. Nice to see you too. And, why do you care if being a Christian is meaningless? My understanding is that you think the simple question of God's existence is meaningless. Lots of meaninglessness taking up an awful lot of thought and time for you. And, I call myself a person. I call myself a Christian. It's part of my personality. I don't claim to be the epitome of what a Christian is supposed to be. I also call myself an American because I was born in America. I should probably stop doing that since there are so many different ideas of what a "true" American really is, huh? Personally, I've never killed anyone - or (gasp) even insulted them over their religious beliefs, but thank you for acknowledging that I've stopped.
As to your final thought...well...Baaaaah.Mark, I've discovered that attempting to have a conversation about anything with you is akin to playing tennis by oneself. It's sort of silly to expect a returned serve. As to espousing a political doctrine, I didn't realize that calling myself an American because I was born in America was "espousing a political doctrine." Thank you for enlightening me to how poorly I use language. Your sincere attempt at bettering me as a human being is much appreciated.
Frankly, I'm not sure what you're talking about in terms of me rejecting the parts of the bible that insult those who don't share my religious views. There are truths about the bible that both christians and those who are not christian do not recognize or acknowledge. That's what has everyone all messed up. Being human is what has them all in conflict.
Sadly, you and I will never agree. Happily, I don't really care. I wish you all the best in your continued quest to enlighten the sheep, as I always have.
Well - you have stopped killing each other over biblical interpretation. I think that is a positive step forwards. Sorry you disagree.
Attack? Persecute? Oh - I keep forgetting you think anyone who does not agree with your religion is "attacking," you and "persecuting you". Glad you think that murdering all the Native Americans for religion was OK as well.
This is why your religion causes so many wars.
Motown is nice and a skilled writer ,however she is flawed (according to Atheists) because she calls herself 'Christian'
Oh dear.
Such arrogance indeed.
I have freckles, and got into some pretty mean squabbles with my sister. Oh yes having freckles was against the backyard beauty shop. Then the major conflict occured , such horror emerged from these two sweet happy girls.
War was declared.
I couldnt control her ,and I had the right ,because I gave myself that right ,and she couldnt control me ,because she was better than me ,no freckles...but I didnt agree...
Sound familiar.....crazy huhOff with her head!
- I did my best,didnt wanna let the team down
Hey the predudice went further.
Big brother said freckles made me too ugly to ever be an flight attendant!
Oh families dont ya love 'em
Guess my point is how childish to see grown intelligent men calling other grown-ups names?
I dont get that childish behaviour.I agree, but I'm only sure of the intelligence of one anymore, so I give the other wide latitude.
You can only post stupidity so long, and then I think Forest Gump's mother hit the nail on the head with how to view it.
just_curious, I'm sharpening my Christian sword as we speak so we can lop off her freckled head. I mean, it's terrible to see the kind of freckled folk they allow into the forums these days. It's almost like they're trying to be loving and inclusive....blech.
Eaglekiwi, I would never have given you a hard time about your freckles if I was your sister. I used to wish I had some. I'm a little green that you do!Well Mark has requested me take off my armour , hes naughty eh!) then perhaps I'll try bleach for my frek patch!
However theres only so much 'growing' one can do on 4 oreo cookies and milk,plus even though the milks fortified ,I do need lots of strength to draw back those arrows
Cupid draw back your arrows and let -sing it hubstersUploading freckles for Motown..(10 brown and 5 tan).
Download speed 4 secs.
Enjoy
P.S My mum used to say ,after I groaned ,Oh why did God make me like this!!! ....Oh freckles she explained means ,"youve been kissed by the sun ",and God joins the dots together when youre asleep...( but of course the sun thing happened again )
Thank you, Eaglekiwi. Your kind words are much appreciated. I admit to being flawed. That's part of the problem for the dissenters. They say, "You're flawed!" I say, "You're right!"
Then there's nothing left to argue about and they get bored with me. Such is life.
Thank you very much, just_curious. I appreciate it when someone acknowledges my efforts to be kind.
That phrase "true Christian," "true whatever" is very hypocritical and religious in nature. I look inward and literally watch people who always come up with such sentiments with four eyes.
For anyone looking for the BEST answer, Aguasilver made an excellent hub on the subject.
http://hubpages.com/hub/What-makes-one-a-ChristianI just read it . Great hub!
It was awesome wasn't it? I love aguasilver.. God uses Him to help keep me in line.
Yes it is awesome
Aqua has been a blessing to me.
"The problem is that nobody follows Christ well enough to be claim the title. "
Wonder if maybe that's Jesus Christ's job to determine?Yes, authority to guide yourself away from them. Most people who talk about "authority" forget where we get it from and the guidelines involved with it.
(wasn't talking about you btw)
Judgement of another persons fruit is a good thing. And you don't need authority to do that, as God allows us to reason within our minds so we are not misled.
The thing your talking about I think is warning others after you notice they bear bad fruit. This is true and good to do, but overbearing, as I myself sometimes catch myself doing (because I want the best for people) is not what it tells us to do and only pushes people towards the danger.
You left your take on things pretty vague, so I'm unsure if I covered it correctly. But I tried.
I know, WOman of Courage. I was arguing the semantics of it. Please forgive me.
victor, No problem, I forgive you
Thats me too .
Forgiven but not perfect.
I am a work in progress -lol- Shrimp make sense
I gotcha ;/ My pleasure Mo ,although thankyou is not necessay. Credit is all yours.
Boredem, of yes my teens used to get bored,until I told them ,theres no such thing ,only boring people.
Well the suns finally out ,spring is definately around the corner.
Catch ya on the flipside Glory GirlMotown I am in the states !!!! and we gotta date.
Oh what a pair we'd be-I love cake (suck at baking)..
Destiny
Bring on the Arabica I say. My blend I will name HEBrews (lol) or Grounds for Coffee
Everyones invited
P.S Ok brainstorming here -Marks got the machine ,maybe ,just maybeYour a broken record little buddy. We all know you hate Paul and the Church.
Maybe you should give it a rest. I've read at least ten of the same posts.I know
That's what's so cool. I know this. Go forth and do your thing Daniel. It's your life.
Just so you know, I did make a final effort on the behalf of all of you who will not pull your heads out of the sand. (with your alter egos who appear to have the same problem.
No go.
Anyway, I hope you all have fun in the little sandbox. It's been a blast for me. I know it will continue to produce some laughs.and.... you will be back as quickly as you left!
- I didn't say I was going anywhere. I simply see I'm putting my nose in where it doesn't belong. You guys are adults. Do what you want.
Unless you were speaking of this shaking off of christianity. In that case you're wrong. I don't see it as a denial of anything. It is simply am acceptance of who I am. I see no reason to harbor any animosity. I wasn't shnookered. I made a wrong choice. I blame myself only for this, because that's who I am.No, I thought I saw you take a cruising shot at what you measure as extremes then get up and leave the room. Must be my eyesight that's the problem!
Ernest. I have never been one to cut and run. Not my style. I do have many flaws, but I don't count that as one of them. I think, to walk away from anything before it is completely understood is counter productive.
I am simply done trying to understand aspects that appear to be beyond my ken at this moment.
Just because I think you guys are wrong, doesn't mean I think I'm right. When I think that, I promise I will leave.OK.
A true christian is easy enough to pick.
They feel the need to tell others they will go to hell if they don't believe a silly myth.I didn't tell you that. I told you that Christ Jesus told you that. And it's recorded in the Bible.
I think you already know about Jesus Christ and you are capable of choosing for yourself.
I personally believe in Christ and everything wrote about Him, and have spent my fair share of time being skeptical. I now know for myself what is true.
Everyone is able to make their own conclusions based on the information they have. I think everyone has to decide what they want for themselves.
Much of what I think is in my hubs, which are still in progress, but what is there so far I believe would give someone an accurate representation."Apparently you haven't learned enough."
-Cagsil
Everyone, please do note what Cagsil has learned. Check all the threads in religion. He loves to attack my character and make demeaning personal remarks. Nothing to do with the discussion. All about me. It's all still there.
You were saying?
OK
What do people look like in heaven?
How would you recognize someone?
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