once there were two men who killed others in battle protecting their country. there were two others killed for robbery. one from each group died immediately after the incident. the other two lived long enough to repent there crimes. who all will be going to hell?
Am I missing something? Where is the crime in someone in the armed forces killing in defence of their country?
Hell is reserved for those who have rejected the greater light, never the less all men will be judged by their works, and receive the mansion which has been prepared for them according to God's judgment. It is not a permanent state, rather it is a temporary abode for those people who have rejected the testimony of Christ, until the day of judgment comes. It is a death of the spirit, which is dead without God, and God is the perfect judge and we are inequitous. We have no right to decide where one goes when they pass through the veil of death. Even if one of God's children has earned the reward of hell, they will be delivered from that terrible state on the day of judgment and receive a lesser glory, and will be saved from that state. otherwise every knee would not bend, and every tongue would not swear.
This is the largest pile of donkey dung I've heard or seen.
this sounds like something straight from the church's mouth. too confusing to make sense to anyone who thinks for themselves.
honestly - this post says, the mansion prepared for them according to God's judgment is not a permanent state until the day of judgment comes. doesn't make a lick of sense.
All wicked people, heartless and evil doers are hell bound. All that repented when they have the grace for repentance have been giving a second chance to correct there wrong doing and if they turn to the good side, they will surely go to heaven.
When you do good you reap the fruit of your goodness. Likewise evil.
So have you actually verified the existence and location of this "hell?"
Also have you done the same with this "heaven?"
If you haven't then this is only delusional hearsay, would you not agree?
The heaven and the hell are not in the same dimension we are; hence the comment is not valid.
It appears that heaven and hell are in the dimension of imagination, therefore you are correct. They are not in the same dimension we are, because we actually exist.
My question is still valid, because you need to prove that this dimension exists. If not, then, it is only an opnion based entirely in nonsense.
Do you see the air which moves a branch of a tree?
Do you see the soul which keep you alive?
Did you see the the pain when you was seek?
Do you know exactly in which cells your brain saves your Name so you can tell other when they ask you.
It is not a matter of location, it is a matter of faith.
Please bring your knowledge up to date before responding.
If you would do this, you would know just how absurd your outdated reasoning is. You would have known that this type of nonsensical logic has been debunked already.
Ignorance is no way to make a point.
.Let see, mmmm
1. One million Iraqi killed by American for protecting their own soil
2, No American killed from Iraqi on American soil
Heaven
1. Christian- Extreme happiness (like a funny farm) or
2. Muslim- 51 virgins (without a pro)
I can make up a better concept for a heaven and hell on earth than that.
however did not have the chance to understand what he did. hell is a metaphor for torment.
The Bible teaches that we are all going to hell but if you believe on Jesus Christ as your savior and atonement for your sins that He will save you from Hell. He is the ONLY WAY OUT>
That is not entirely correct. The biblical account of Y`shua's completion of a work is the way out, not the individual himself. It was a situation of gift. Unfortunately a b~zilion book worshipers titled "believers" have been convinced it is actually via that singular individuals self that access is granted to EL, instead of the work done for everyone.
Working for something unattainable, yup that is hell.
Accepting something given without one's necessity to provide payment, is amazing. I prefer the latter.
You have to believe on Jesus, even the demons KNOW that this is true but you have to believe and then you become born again.
Did the demons tell you this personally, Brie?
If you ever read the bible, you would know demons tremble at the powerful name of Jesus.
Not really, because what the demons know is the power of salvation, what believers know is the power of book knowledge. The only way to be "born again" is by regeneration of the spirit. The only way the spirit can be regenerated is through the word. But the word believers think is the word, isn't. The word --as was told to Moses-- proceeds from Creators mouth. That word is ruach, the power of the spirit aka that which makes the spirit tangible; just as the spirit was in the darkness and ruach made tangible the spirit. This is what demons fear and so do believers. The ruach is in your mouth and heart, that you may do it. Creator promises to write ruach in the spirit of everyone who believes or yields to the intangible ruach, so ruach can make tangible the spirit (also called glorified). It is the first Reality given to man for him to have dominion over.
This was exemplified by Y`shua work as the first of many who would make tangible the spirit.
alef - 1.
the word is breath, the first intent.
hell is for bad ppl who deosn't listen to god
Re to: once there were two men who killed others in battle protecting their country. there were two others killed for robbery. one from each group died immediately after the incident. the other two lived long enough to repent there crimes. who all will be going to hell?
The two guys fighting in the battle may or may not go to hell, depends if they were just fighting for the country or was it independence under God's name for the country. if it was second case they wont go to hell. For the Robbery guys, its just an act of cheating so they will be cheated back for there deed. & if they again cheat in return then again cheated back,,, so on..... they cannot go to hell for just robbery.
we all are robbers, taking everything from this creation of god to make our lives and not doing sufficient enough in the Name of God, in return...
a simple " i don't know" would have been better
Sorry, but that answer would require me to lie.
if you know tell me which one of the four goes to hell. all the four? none?
Whichever one God sends. It's not up to me to judge who goes.
No, I do know. The answer is, whoever God sends.
The Creator-God does not send anyone to hell or heaven unjustifiably or with cruelty; those who will go to hell they themselves ignored the message inherent in their natural physche:
[2:282] And fear the day when you shall be made to return to Allah; then shall every soul be paid in full what it has earned; and they shall not be wronged.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … ;verse=281
Yes, it could if I didn't repent for my sins. If God wants to send me to hell then he will.
Then this God sucks. Even if I repent of my sins, slavishly worship Him, and do everything I feel that it takes to escape hell, He can still just decide, for no reason, to send me to hell.
This would be downright aweful. Tell me you are joking.
Nope, not joking. He can decide whatever he wants, he's God. But he says if we repent, and live by his word, then we won't go to hell. God forgives even after you've hardened your heart as long as you ask for forgiveness.
That doesn't matter, He can still just decide to send you to hell no matter what you say he said. He is God.
Do you see how absurd your reasoning is?
With your reasoning, YOU might still go to hell, although you have done everything you think God requires of you. Right?!
Exactly, minus absurd reasoning. All I can do is my part, the rest is up to God.
No, ABSURD is the appropriate word. Belief in nonsense is utterly absurd--and gives way to more absurdity when you try to explain away the contradictions.
Your delusion has collapsed, and you have dug yourself such a whole. I think it's time for me to go watch the Bears and Jets.
Have a nice day.
I'm watching it right now. Holmes fumbled, and Forte racked and stacked for 6.
Anywho, absurd would be conceding that I am the end all be all of my existence. That love does not exist, hunger does not exist, sadness and happiness do not exist. All things in addition to God which contribute to being.
Why do you care what he thinks?
If he wants to believe there is a God that will send some people to hell, this is his belief.
I agree! Let the man enjoy himself with thoughts of those not of his religious worth burning in hellfire for eternity. Everyone needs a hobby.
Heehee! Sounds like a miserable hobby to me, but to each, his own.
It is actually quite popular in the Bible Belt. It allows otherwise inferior humans to feel superior about something in their ordinary miserable lives. See, everything works out after all.
I don't have a miserable life. I'm actually quite happy!
Then you don't like to picture those who don't think like you burning in hell then. Right?
No!! I don't like to see anyone or anything suffer. I don't believe in "hell" like some religionists do.
But you seldom go to church so you do not qualify. True Bibeltians go to church regularly so they will know who to judge according to the minister's instructions. You know the rules!
Believe it or not, "my church" doesn't teach judging - it teaches tolerance. I really prefer Emily Dickinson's idea of attending Church, where she spends her Sunday mornings surrounded by the beauty of Nature and "listens to God, a noted clergyman."
I'm also pretty happy myself. Well, I was a little upset that my team didn't make the play offs, but we got next year.
I suppose you see yourself ending up in heaven, right? LOL!
Great! You see, if all of you christians go to heaven, it would be hell for me if I had to spend eternity there. So it looks like win-win situation for me to go the other way. LOL!
Well, as long as you're happy that's all that matters.At least you're willing to man up.
I suppose YOU could say this is how god made me. I had rather use my common sense to view life rather than resort to delusion to make something supernatural out of it. I need no invisible beings to point me in the right direction. You obviously do, so carry on.
I need nothing to point me in the right direction, because we all end up at the same place, no matter which direction we go . I just choose to follow the guidance. It's called free will. I can choose to stop following whenever I like.
Sure, we have free will whether or not we believe in an invisible deity. One doesn't have to be religious to be a good person, despite what church leaders say to the contrary.
I didn't say someone has to be religious to be a good person. I don't know any church leaders who say that either.
But some say you go to hell if you do not believe in the invisible deity they are promoting in their cult. Do you belong to a religious cult yourself?
Great! Another person who doesn't believe in the bible!
Nope. The word cult generally applies to a small minority of people. In this case I would be the majority, and you would be the minority. Why, are you a cult follower?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult
If you read further into the link you provided you may see different definitions by different people in their description of the word "cult."
I do consider anyone believing the contents of the Bible a cult follower. Especially if the cult has leaders pointing the way for the actions of its followers. Unless you do not go to church, this means you.
If you see my statement it says generally. I do go to church, and if that's your definition then it's ok with me. But I stand by my original statement:
Here's Webster's to give you a better definition:
cult
noun, often attributive \ˈkəlt\
Definition of CULT
1
: formal religious veneration : worship
2
: a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
3
: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents
4
: a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator <health cults>
5
a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad
b : the object of such devotion
c : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cult
Definitions 1 and 2 seem to back up my assertions, as well as, parts of the others listed. I don't care one bit if you wish to be a cult member, Ediggity. In fact, it pleases me not to have misjudged your previous posts. Thank you!
I'm glad I've brought you some joy. If being in a cult means following the word of God, then I guess I will cult away.You're welcome!
Cult on, brother! LOL! You no longer have the option to do otherwise. Full indoctrination, just as stated in the link you kindly provided. You are welcome to it! And how can you state you do not judge others when you follow a cult saying those not in it are doomed?
Sure I have the option to do otherwise. I just choose to follow the guidance of the Bible. It's called free will. I can choose to stop following it whenever I like. I let God do the judging, sorry, I can't speak for what other people say. God will decide where you go after he judges you.
There is no free will for someone who follows the bible. They lose free will the moment they put their faith in the ancient novel. Following orders from the book precludes any free will they ever had.
I gotta go after this but want to add.
Free will to drive across the continent doesn't requite a Map. But a map can save a lot of time and effort.
And if Ya can't understand the map, ? you are just as well off (maybe better off) without it.
Will be checking back in later.
If this is the best you can do in offering examples of free will, then don't bother checking back in later, Jerami. You are attempting to use logic and reasoning to explain the bible's definition of free will. The lack of logic used to explain bible scripture is already the main problem on these forums.
Blind faith and logic do not mesh well in the biblical sense. Either use logic or don't. You cannot have it both ways.
Sure there is free will. I can do whatever I want, but I choose to try and follow the Bible.
Pity it makes you come across like this - and so scared you have to hide behind a silly user name because you have been banned from so many sites for causing so many arguments. Disgusting belief system really - you have no morals or ethics - if you did - you would not be so scared or fight so much. Is that wot god sed to do?
LOL, what sites have I been banned from? Name one, lol. You have me confused with someone else dude. You sound like a broken record. Who am I "fighting" with? I am simply responding to comments. I think you have the most experience with being banned. Yes Mark, I'm hiding behind the one user name I have on HP, I'm so afraid. Booga Booga! LOL
So why the need to hide? Love that you are going against the bible right now though.
I guess I'll be judged for it when I stand before God. Thanks for the concern though.
Oh no - I am judging you right now. You claim to follow the bible, hide behind a fake user name and clearly go not follow what the bible says. So - I judge you. And thank you - it is people like you taught me there is no such thing as god. If you really believed - you would not be like this.
I do not lie and pretend I am not judging. I am honest. Us atheists value honesty. I am certain you do not understand the concept.
Wow Mark, you are such a sterling example to emulate. Keep telling us how great your values are. You sound like the kid who got his ball taken on the playground. If I'm so horrible you could just ignore me you know. I'm not going to judge you for anything God is.
No, no - I think you are great. Claim to follow the bible, obviously go against what it says and then judge others while claiming not to. LOL You arerthe perfect example of a Christian.
I can't help it - I value honesty and despise hypocrisy. Must be difficult for you to understand . Oh well. Tell us how you do not judge or cause ill will again. I especially like that one. Is that what the bible says to do?
Does the bible tell you to argue with the unbelievers?
If that's you opinion that's fine with me. I know I'm flawed, that's why I repent. I'm not arguing with anyone, I'm just responding to your questions and statements toward me.
If we allow for equal billing within the supernatural realm of gods, so to speak, wouldn't a number of other gods also be standing by to judge? Allah? Zeus? Thor?
Oh, you do, you do! I can always rely on you guys for amusement. You've never let me down yet!
I'm glad you're amused. As long as we keep you focused on God that's all that matters.
I'm focused on all of the gods, even yours! How many did you research before choosing one?
That's great! Keep your eyes on the prize. Actually, I started off with no God at all. I chose not to believe in any God. Then, fortunately, the one true God didn't give up on me, and it was an easy choice to make.
Isn't that what drug addicts and alcoholics always say?
It's such a long way up there where you are, sitting atop that high horse.
Careful, Beel! You are tempting one of God's chosen! He might curse you and all of your progeny will be born naked.
I don't know what they say, I am neither. Do you have a lot of experience with Drug addicts and Alcoholics? Are you speaking to God? I live at approx 12ft AMSL, so it's not that long.
Didn't you know that religion is a drug?
If you think it isn't, then, just try to stop.
I didn't know it was a drug, and I don't want to stop. So, if that is your definition, then yes, I guess I am addicted to God. LOL.
Just like the other addictions, you are in denial that your addiction is destructive. You talk about your addiction as if it is a badge of honor, but it has all sorts of psychological and emotional,and even deadly ramifications.
Some of the ramifications is that the religious addict becomes a compulsive liar. They also lose the ability to discern their imagination from reality. They must get a fix from time to time by going to an insane house of worship, or by reading an outdated nonsensical text, written by someone who they THINK is God.
And the worst ramification is that those addicted to religion can be easily led to do some very immoral things, like killing all those who don't share their beliefs, or killing "witches" etc
Please get help. First admit you have a problem.
Hmm, destructive because you think so? No offense, but your opinion on religion doesn't really have much weight with the majority. Are you really using examples of killing witches to support your claim? If believing in God means I have a problem, then that's a problem that I never want to solve. I admit it.
Now you are going around and around and around again.
You are now back to pleading that if other people believe something, then, it can't be a delusion. How desperate to regress to using nonsense that has already been proven illogical.
You don't have the courage of the boy who declared that the Emperor had on no clothes. I do. Therefore, ediggity, you are advocating being a blind, fearful, foolish follower.
And believers wear this like a badge of pride and honor.
What a sad reality.
No, I'm simply stating that other people believe also. I am advocating faith in something bigger than myself.
You are only advocating it because others told you to. Your ruse has collapsed, and it is clear that this is nothing but blind following based on fear.
It is clear that believers lack the confidence in their own intellect, therefore, they need others to tell them what to think.
This is madness.
No one told me to. I came to God on my own, in my own time. I grew up in an atheist/agnostic household, and gave up on God before even giving God a chance. Even though I once gave up on God he never gave up on me. Inadvertently or deliberately insulting me and other believers doesn't really give you much credibility IMO. Oh yeah,
Yep! Sure do! But my idea of Heaven might not be what you think it is.
The Creator-God cannot do anything of blemish. Why should he do anything which is against His attributes? He will always deal with His creatures with equity and justice; He will never be cruel, as it is blemished.
I didn't write he should,I wrote he can. He can do anything, that's why he is God, infinite, the beginning and the end.
About the Creator-God it amounts to the same thing. He has all good names and attributes; nobody could force Him on doing anything against His good names and good attributes. No blemish could be attributed to Him.
What's truly amazing is that whatever god does when he does something appears to be quite indistinguishable from nature taking it's course with the laws of physics as guiding principles.
What's even more amazing is that these are exactly the same characteristics of the invisible flying purple dragon that rules our universe.
There you go mixing science and faith again with your philosophy on life. You really should write a book it's quite comical.
....and the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Dont forget that. You dont want to spend eternity as a meatball in burning sauce
such a monster your god, to sent human beings on whim to "hell". Great one
You wont exactly be a human being after you're dead, so my God sends no human beings to hell. He is a great one.
How can we,mere human, determine who is going to Hell?
We can not even agree as to what hell IS!
There have been many servants of God that were misunderstood as being Evil in mankind's eyes.
Maybe this is the biggest reason that it is stated that we are not to judge. In doing so, we would be judging Gods judgments.
Truly something that we ALL should think about.
edigity please tell who is the one god will be sending..
These kinds of responses are vacuous, and is exactly why the argument turns circular.
Of course when one believes in nonsense, one has to be shifty. There is no way around it.
I'm sorry my response, or lack there of wasn't up to your standard. However, I was only being honest.
Honest?! NO, Sir! . The only thing you do is use dishonesty to try to verify fraud. Try some real honesty. Stop trying to prop up and support a farce.
You must be a lawyer.
If that's the the way you feel about it then that's fine. It's not "a farce" to me, and a lot of other people. Nope, not a lawyer.
Just as the Flying Spaghetti Monster is not a farce to many, but do you think it is intellectually sound that you and I respect their belief? And can you really try to be honest? Could you?
I could really care less about whos belief you respect. No need to try, I already do.
I wish you wouldn't feign anger, and avoid the question with emotionally charged irrelevant answers. This is dishonesty through ommission and diversion. I'm now of the opinion that you can't do honesty. No offense.
No offence getitrite but you are every bit the things of which keeps coming out of your mouth.
So, as it seems, you are expert over those things of which you accuse others.
I didn't want to say anything, because I didn't want to upset him. Oh yeah so everyone knows I'm not mad. Here's a smiley
I do not agree with the theologies that most churches have constructed from biblical references, but that is another issue.
What irritates me most is that the most zealous atheists which post on here are as hypocritical or more than the most hypocritical religious folk they have ever seen.
It seems that they are more closed minded than the more blind than the ones that they say are close minded and blind.
They are more foolish than those that they call foolish
As I have stated before. We have to be careful of the things that we hate and how we go about hating them lest we become worse than the things that we hate.
But no one believes that.
They seem to be filled with a lot of anger toward religious people. The irony is they spend just as much time as a religious person does addressing God and religion .
Because intelligent people choose not be taken in by brutal stupidity, that makes them closed minded, I guess.
Thanks for the comedy!
When a wise man and fool are standing on the street corner argueing, it is difficult for the passers by to distinguish who is wise and who is a fool.
After they have stayed there argueing long enough, they become more like each other.
The fool becomes wiser and the wise become more foolish.
And then they no longer have to be on the street corner for people to not be able to tell the difference.
That is all I am saying.
Gotta go again.
What if I said that there is a God, and he loves us enough that he sent His son, Jesus Christ, to earth to be sacrificed so that we may be saved? And all we have to do is repent, and ask Jesus to save us.
Would you be so quick to notice what you are accusing me of, if I advocated Christianity?
I personally think that you have absolutely no argument at all.
I would first tell you that no one can be totally repentant.
Not in this life.
We will either be proud or humble. There doesn't seem to be large enough of a plateau to balance between these faults.
When we stop being proud and become humble... we become proud of our humbleness.
I agree that there are many misconceptions of what the scriptures are saying that is taught by religiosity.
You can see these untruths much better than those wearing them, Yet you can not see your own misconceptions that you are wearing.
That is life. It is kinda like science or mathematics. Just because someone can not explain it correctly, that doesn't mean that science and math does not work.
You have discarded something that you do not understand in the same way.
I have discarded the Skyfairy concept, because it makes NO sense, and it is apparent that these religions were all man-made, and were not inspired by a preternatural deity--it's not because I don't understand it. Math makes sense.
LOL, who's angry? Sorry I guess I should have put a smiley face after, lol. I literally could care less about whos belief you respect. I'm not angry about anything.
It's funny how people interpret things on the internet. No offense taken.
ediggity lets say there names were tom dick harry and sam in that order. if you are honest and if you know tell me which among these four people(please name the one instead of i know god knows but i don't know, but i don't lie i know and other ridicules things?) will be going to hell.l NAME the person if you know or just keep your foolishness to yourself.
It was really hard to decipher your grammar, but here is my answer based off what I think is a question. God might send Tom, Dick, Harry, or Sam, or no one at all. It's up to God. Hope that helps you understand better.
Here we go again with more foolishness. I thought he asked you to keep your foolishness to yourself.
You have now lost all credibility, and it is apparent that your beliefs are nothing but confusion, fraud, and mind-boggling nonsense. You CAN'T even commit yourself to answer a multiple-choice question--that has the choices of A, B, C, or D.
You choose E, but there is no E. Your foolish God is smiling down on you, I'm sure. And thanks for insulting someone about his grammar, although English is probably not his first language. What a bully for Jesus. Just because your beliefs are completely silly, it's not the OP's fault.
I wasn't bullying anyone, I really had a hard time understanding what he meant. There is no hidden agenda behind what I wrote, despite how much you would like there to be. I was simply stating an answer based off what I could understand from his comment.
I can't lose something that was never mine to begin with. I give all the credit to God. I can choose to answer however I like, and I did. I'm sorry my answer makes you so upset that you must resort to insulting me and my religion, but it's still my answer.
While not surprising, it is interesting to note that one would go to such lengths, openly admitting they would lie to support a myth or superstition.
What would be the need to lie? If the truth were that obvious, one could hold it up for all to see and no lies would be required. To resort to having to lie to make your point defeats the purpose of the intent, which is to reveal the truth. Lying only shows the extent of having an agenda as opposed to having understanding.
The question is how far does someone have to lie to themselves before they can realize and admit the truth and no longer have to lie to make their point?
Lies are such sordid affairs that always get out of hand causing stress and anxiety to others, why bother with them?
No, the question is, who goes to Hell? Nice philosophy though, you should write a book.
eddigity, I can tell by your posts that you are not angry at all. In fact, its the other way around. The person who is accusing you of being angry is indeed an expert of every word he is accusing you are. It's quite obvious. How interesting.
Thank you WOC. It is very interesting. It's ok with me though. I am glad that they stay focused on God.However, sometimes I forget to put smiley faces, and I think maybe that's where the confusion stems from.
You are welcome. Some seem to think without the smiley faces that we are not happy, but that's not true at all. I don't see a need to put up smiley faces at every post. God bless you ediggity.
LOL.. make a fine pair, the blind leading the blind.
Now this is unbelievable. It is so apparent what the agenda is: Taking a stand for Jesus, even if it means being dishonest.
I can see a correlation between this issue and when Jesus had to correct the disciples when they were argueing amongst themselves as to who was going to be the greatest in heaven when they get there.
I think that this might have been one of the first times that Jesus rebuked his followers?
And religions while disregarding this rebuke, have been carrying on that tradition ever sense the beginning.
Even in the story about the self righteous pharisee in the temple, thanking the Lord for not making him like that sinner over there, that was there praying and asking for forgiveness.
Who did Jesus say was closer to God?
I think we would all be surprised if we fully understood these stories
ya mean ya don't understand these simple stories about pride and works, humbleness and sincerity?
How many people do WE know that behaves as though they FULLY understand them?
In some stories there is not much depth and others lots of depth. The two you mentioned are simple stories without much depth. There is not much to understand. The bragging self righteous pharisee while praying to God thanked God that he was so much better than the person over there.
Wrong... buzzzzzz, thanks for playing.
The 'sinner over there' realizing a despondency and need and poverty of spirit prayed honestly and sincerely from the heart and bowed humbly before the mercy of God recognizing the truth of being a sinner.
Correct... waldo what prize do we have for contestant number two?
It is most often that the simplest of stories are the easiest to over look.
And many people just don't get it.
This story must not have been so simple that you recognized that......
as you finished your comment you stated exactly what I was saying.
So you can have my prize.. OK
I do get carried away lol.
it takes some understanding to grasp even simple stories.
I thought we were talking about fully understanding this story? If you have another slant i may well be delighted to hear about it? I embrace bible controversy because at its godly end it leads to enlightenment.
From what I have observed in my life, Even the most faithful tend to fall into the trap that these two stories describe.
As you stated in one of your earlier posts, God is everywhere,and in everything that he created. And I believe that.
It is written that we have nothing to be proud for. Not our good looks, our health and strength, our intelligence; No! not even our faith in him; for all of these things were given to us. He said that he gives faith to those that he chooses, and not those that he chooses not to.
If these things are true? He is in everyone, even the worst of sinners. So it would seem to me that when we are putting ourselves above another person, we are also putting ourself above god that is in that other person.
How can we judge anyone unless we have walked the same mile in their shoes while carrying their same burden.
It is Ssooo easy for us to be arrogant like that pharisee that was thanking God for not making him like that sinner over there.
If we fully understood these simple stories and kept them, we wouldn't do the things that we do.
Hope everyone has a great day.
The moral of the posted story is:
Luke 13:1 "There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices".
Luke 13:2 "And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things"?
Luke 13:3 "I tell you: except you repent, you shall all likewise perish".
Luke 13:4 "Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem"?
Luke 13:5 "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish".
We never know when we will die, but:
Hebrews 9:27 "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment":
These people died in their sins, unrepentant and will receive their just deserves because they chose not to believe in God.
So ya take your chances huh.
What does likewise all shall perish mean to you?
Doesn't everything pass away? Then everything perishes. Which part of that don't you get? Where does it go? Where can it go? Into nothing? Can't. Against the laws of physics. So...where does everyone and everything that dies...go? If the answer was a rattlesnake, you'd get bitten upon your nose. Clueless is as clueless does. Have a MERRY CHRISTMAS one and all. EVEN if you just wanna be SCROOGE!
You apparently don't understand physics. A decomposing body does not create or destroy matter or energy; it just decomposes into an unrecognizable form (except for the bones).
Using science badly to explain religious dogma is always dangerous.
And is re-utilized by the universe. Two thirds never leaves this planet. What is the other third, and where does it go. Obviously, it is not my understanding of physics which is in dire need of innoculation. Insert fifty cents and try again.
Um, what?
Are you suggesting that a decomposed body in all of its physical forms does not total the same mass as the body at death?
Why don't you provide some evidence?
Uhhh. How's this. The body loses a small amount of weight which has never been accounted for, within minutes of death. Worked in ICU/CCU, Radiology, The Morgue, and have been in personal attendence for so many deaths that I stopped keeping count. How about you?
I've read there was a doctor who used (poor) scientific methods to contend that the body loses 21 grams upon death, but his research was dismissed as poorly designed by other scientific authorities.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2004/feb … ce.science
Again, you tread into dangerous territory when you use (pseudo)science to explain religious dogma. If you want to believe there is a soul, why must you insist it has any mass or energy associated with it?
So... what hospital have you worked at? Got experience all the way back to Nam. Weighed them myself. Mad scientists only see us as "test subjects" Let's all trust what they say. Not me. Let me know how that work's out for you.
I didn't say I had experience of my own.
I trust what scientists - those that have submitted their findings to the rigor of peer review - over that of what someone on the Internet says they've experienced.
Then go find out for yourself. Why trust anyone you have never met? Might as well trust the Bible, The Book Of Mormon, or listen to someone on the net. By all means. Very short classes will get you your CNA, then, you just have to pray someone dies on your watch. What a dork.
Are you suggesting that it does?
"Gruesomely, Stern points out that dead bodies lose a lot of weight over time. Minute, intercellular structures called lysosomes release enzymes that break the body down into gases and liquid. "That's why, when you have mass graves, you can get explosions because of all the gas build-up," he says. "Just think if our bodies didn't break down. Everyone who had ever lived on the face on the Earth would still be here." Now, that would make a good movie."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2004/feb … ce.science
WE accounted for everything, and this loss occurs within less than fifteen minutes. (Fastest WE were ever able to process the cadaver in order to weigh it. Weights were all monitored upto the point of death, at which time all electronics are disconnected. We even rode the gurney down the sloping hallway to shave seconds off delivery time. Scales were calibrated, etc. Besides, there is no definitive thing which can accurately be described as "consciosness" and there are all those mysteries which our scientists can't explain, the exact list is very long, and there's no use to pretend there are none. To expect those, who can't even effectively explore our own world, until extremely recently, to have unlocked the secrets of the universe, using instruments that can only see into the past, you have to admit, sounds like placing eggs in an invisible basket. Is the emperor wearing clothes? probably not. Religion being attacked by science is as ludicrous as science being attacked by religion. Historically speaking, they were born of the same mother, at the same time. They are virtually twins, both of whom have come to an impasse, both of whom are afraid to make the last leap, which closes both circles, like two wedding bands, two circles at last rejoined. The symbol of eternity (8) combined with the Karmic Wheel and the Medicine Wheel. It couldn't happen until this generation. This generation which was prophesied to you, and you know it not. Religion shall pass away, for it was a tool. Science, too will pass away, for it too, was a tool. Evolution is true. Everything changes, it never stops, step A leads to step B and so on ad infinitum (latin) means FOREVER. Eternity, (8) that's the ball we have all been behind. Everything changes...in that way everything never changes. Homogenous existence is a stagnant pool. Constant state of neverending change. Flux. Merry Christmas all you cute little simians. Can we say "Planet Of The Apes"? Me Tarzan, you Cheeta.
Either way the decomposing body still loses mass, which I thought was the point.
"Religion being attacked by science is as ludicrous as science being attacked by religion."
I wish more people took this approach.
You're talking OVER TIME. I'm talking so fast you can't catch it before it's already gone! And they will. Every word I write is true. Watch. No prophet. Just extremely well connected. Leave it at that. This IS THAT generation. Christians are at THE END OF THE LINE! The one going in. In fact, that's the only line, and everybody is in it. All of us. And the followers of Paul? End of the line. Long line, too. Welcome to the 8th day of creation. Believe? S'o.k....you will. I'd bet money on it...too late...that's going too. Can we spell OZ? Obviously a Druid Wizard.
Maybe from IRE-land " Place of God's Anger". Now where did he get his interprtation from? Hmmm. All is not as it seems. The best illusions are performed on a world wide stage. Yuk-yuk-yuk.
I'm not talking anything. I just quoted what the article said. It was a direct contradiction of the statement made by livelonger, derived from his own source.
A decomposed body in all of its forms does not equal it's total mass at death.
So I guess we would have to conclude, without any further investigation, that the weight loss is the soul leaving the body?
Brilliant!
nothing leaves the body. Unsaved man is spiritually dead. There is no spirit in him. The OT understanding of soul is animated flesh, which is what unsaved pepople are: animated flesh serving the desires of their flesh like robots in blind duty to wants, desires, cravings and lusts and yes, even their imaginations. There is no spirit that means a separate entity in UNsaved humankind. Spirit, rwuach means life, animation.
When people become saved and are born into the kingdom of GOD, GOD places HIS spirit within them and they become spiritually alive. Now they have a spirit, GODS spirit. When they die, this spirit goes to GOD who is through all things, in all things, beside, behind, above and below all things. There is no travel to heaven or to a distant place, GOD is everywhere holding everything together.
spirits do not weigh anything. There are no fat spirits, or thin or obese spirits. They do not weigh according to their height or bone density. zero.
Likewise to what is what I was asking. I get the passing bit. You care to explain the likewise?
When, where, how, and by whom was this Hell created? Wasn't during the six days.Hmmm. Delusional.
hell is the hebrew word sheol meaning grave. where bodies are buried. Hell is the catholic doctrine of a mass underworld for ungodly people whose relatives did not pay money to get them out of. Hell is merely the grave, but this is not hell. Since no one has gone to hell because nobody has been judged yet hell is empty just like the catholic doctrine that makes it up.
All ungodly and sinners get thrown into the lake of fire.
chew on that for a while.
who goes to hell?
Those who don't know that they have a Creator-God who has set a purpose of their life and hence they don't try to achieve it; while it was achievable by His mercy.
They have missed hence they will be disappointed with themselves; that is their hell. They will join others who have achieved the purpose of life and evolution; after when they have been treated of their wrong psyche; of course after a long time and suffering.
unfortunately, a few more lifetimes, during which their numbers will drastically reduce, until their line of thought ends up in the extinction file where they've been headed all along. Welcome aboard Paar!
Sorry; I could not understand your post fully. Do you agree with me or you disagree?
There is no chance or change beyond the grave. Once this life is over that is it. One chance to believe. GOD does not play games and He makes the rules, whether we like them or not. GOD never changes nor is there variance within Him. This is why we have a bible so we can know what goes on, otherwise anybody could say anything they wanted. The bible holds fast the priniciples of GOD and thus reveals false teachings if they do not line up to the word of GOD
Druid Dude wrote:
WE accounted for everything, and this loss occurs within less than fifteen minutes. (Fastest WE were ever able to process the cadaver in order to weigh it. Weights were all monitored upto the point of death, at which time all electronics are disconnected. We even rode the gurney down the sloping hallway to shave seconds off delivery time. Scales were calibrated, etc. Besides, there is no definitive thing which can accurately be described as "consciosness" and there are all those mysteries which our scientists can't explain, the exact list is very long, and there's no use to pretend there are none. To expect those, who can't even effectively explore our own world, until extremely recently, to have unlocked the secrets of the universe, using instruments that can only see into the past, you have to admit, sounds like placing eggs in an invisible basket. Is the emperor wearing clothes? probably not. Religion being attacked by science is as ludicrous as science being attacked by religion. Historically speaking, they were born of the same mother, at the same time. They are virtually twins, both of whom have come to an impasse, both of whom are afraid to make the last leap, which closes both circles, like two wedding bands, two circles at last rejoined. The symbol of eternity (8) combined with the Karmic Wheel and the Medicine Wheel. It couldn't happen until this generation. This generation which was prophesied to you, and you know it not. Religion shall pass away, for it was a tool. Science, too will pass away, for it too, was a tool. Evolution is true. Everything changes, it never stops, step A leads to step B and so on ad infinitum (latin) means FOREVER. Eternity, (8) that's the ball we have all been behind. Everything changes...in that way everything never changes. Homogenous existence is a stagnant pool. Constant state of neverending change. Flux. Merry Christmas all you cute little simians. Can we say "Planet Of The Apes"? Me Tarzan, you Cheeta.
= = = = = = = = =
getitrite wrote .......
So I guess we would have to conclude, without any further investigation, that the weight loss is the soul leaving the body?
- - - - -- -
Is that all that you understood in this ?
What I saw when he said that is a full circle. everything marches forward...
the faster we go...
the more advanced we get....
the quicker we arive at where we started.
Circular motion quarantees further motion.
Druid Dude ?? sorry if I misunderstood.
about the weight loss the one who did the experiment around 1907 found that dogs also lost weight. may be they too have souls!! anyway the experiment was not repeated nor verified.
the question was which among the FOUR will go to hell not about morals and all.
why all are getting around the question? isn't simple?
just answer which one please........
dogs have souls in the hebrew context of animated flesh. Animals are not capable of knowing right from wrong or being moral or loving their enemies. Dogs rely on instinct which is rather quite what unsaved man relies on.. instinct.
To mankind was given the elevated brain to be able to choose the good and refuse the evil.
Our pets will not be part of the afterlife.
I thought i answered the question 11 hours ago?
I just found this forum. What an interesting questios. It's like "when will the world end" none of us really know. If someone has already said this I apologize.... but the truth may be that we are "living in it right now".
HEAVEN, HELL, PURGATORY, LIMBO: which is worse/better provided any such exist?
Life can be identified as any or none of the above.
To each, their own!!
Whoever goes to hell,I don't know. I personally go to do some after christmas shopping. No time to write, I enjoy my well deserved holidays.
See you later, Merry Christmas to everybody and Happy New year!
Been there once on a last minute cheap package holiday - accommodation was poor, and the air-condition didn't work as the room was boiling hot. Food was over cooked, I like char grilled, but that was taking it a bit too far. The hotel pool wasn't very clean and was coloured bright orange and the Jacuzzi bubbled far too much. All the staff and other residents were moaning and groaning all the time, but I can under stand as the heating was too much, and it was dark all the time. I like to see a bit of sun at least. Although, some must like it as they have been there for years. Hotel Beelzebub was poor and only rates as two stars at the most , while Diablo Airlines lack leg room and I wasn't impressed that they lost all my luggage. On a plus point, I recognised a lot of people there... Will not be going back there...
I hate the religious forum but thought I'd pop in to see "who goes to hell". This response was very clever. It just earned you a new follower!
lol. I avoid these too but this one peaked my interest. I am just going to watch from the sidelines.
*whispers* me too......we can hide in the corner.....I have a stealth cloak....they'll never know we're here.
I never come in here either, but I just had to see what the hell you're doing here, KCC.
Okay, who brought the monkey in early! That's for the evolution versus creation thread later on!
Randy, in referance to your opening question. You`ll probably be close to the head of the line.
ok ediggity let's see whether you can answer this
there was once a man with multiple personality disorder. one personality was a pious, decent man while the other was that of a murderer.he died without knowing he had 2 personalities. where will he go- to heaven or hell?
i hope you understood the question well(though my grammar is faulty!)and will answer to the point instead of side tracking.
Whoever God decides will go.
Nice try:
"Liteworks i agree that there are so many things unexplained, but if you look back 400 years there were even more things that were unexplained but we think as simple now. so given enough time and enough people we will be able to explain things. energy is a concept. whatever people call it , its still a concept and does not exist. it is just giving names to matter or motion of matter and nothing else. all this god, his omnipotence and omniscience( which are mutually exclusive , by the way) occur only in the realm of our imagination and nothing and religions are group of people who try to exploit peoples credulity for their ends..."
I wonder what this, energy dose not exist, thing is too?
you have not answered yet ediggity?
here i make it a MULTIPLE CHOICE QUESTION FOR YOU TO ANSWER. or are you going to answer something else and avoid the question altogether?
that person with multiple personality disorder goes to
a) heaven
b) hell
c) i don't know
see you only have to say whether it is a or b or c. i can't make it any simpler for you.
"Whoever God decides will go"
the question is not who. the question is will that person go to heaven or hell. you were quite bragging about your prowess in english so you should understand. the answer will be either heaven or hell and nothing else.
but if you are a pastor making a living, selling all these nonsense, i can understand you evading the answer
now those who have energy with them(locked in your locker may be, or may be in your back yard, please sent some to me(courier or parcel, i'll pay)
How do you exist if you do not have energy?
So how do you live then if there is no energy?
food, madam. all i take is, matter(as food) that exists, in me, assimilte in my body to live. no energy is taken. example. if you think heat is energy just think can you sent heat to me in anyway. what we appreciate as heat is the vibrations of molecules in the matter. the more the vibration or motion, the more the heat we feel. if it is conducted, the hot matter get in touch with another matter and impart some ot the motion to another. or if it is radiated it emit some particles as infrared rays which impart motion to another. so it is matter and motion ot the matter that is transmitted. see you can use fibre optics to sent light, but when you try to sent heat it is not heat that is moving but another particle or "another spectrum" of light that is moving. so that is why i said only matter exists. all else are concepts made by man to better explain stuff and god is the silliest one as it has so many loopholes
So matter only matters, I don't know if you will win the nobel peace prize with that?
the question is whether you have faith or are you thinking rationally? Castlepaloma if you think energy "exists" where do you keep the energy? in your locker? why can't you sent me some or tell me where i can collect some?
or is it that you don't understand what is "exist"
exist means that which has got physical presence. there is only matter and space in this world. matter exists and space give shape to it. what about your energy? does it got a shape, to exist? can you sent me a picture of it, at the least , that i can see it?
Energy is present and established throughout the universe. Energy creates all conditions and effects to arise. Energy has laws therein, which govern it. When we exercise we directly generate and create energy physically in mind and body with energy. Energy exists, because all is energy or light, even matter is a form of energy or light. I think I am 99% spiritual energy and 1 % matter as everything changes and shifts like grains of sand and the stars in the Universe
At the beginning of the universe, energy is ruler. This is fundamental law of the universe, prior to energy, there is nothing. The void is actually full of energy as far as I can imagine anyways.
ok energy exists. please post the picture of energy here so that i too will know what this stuff is...
as far as laws are concerned do you think nature made the laws for it to follow?
light is not energy it is particles-matter
spiritual energy- is it something we get when we drink spirit?
We are made up of mostly water and 78% of the earth surface is water too. Ride and flow downhill of the rivers flow, as it lead to the Spirit of the Ocean. It's all suround you, said the big fish to the small fish as the small fish ignore the the big fish and the small went on his way searching for the Ocean.
What is that supposed to represent? Can you please explain what we are seeing here?
That's not anything I've ever seen before from an enlarged picture of a plant. Obviously, there is something going on in the way it was photographed. Please explain.
phenomenal!
r = e³ x necessity... quantus philo, how great free will.
Penny,
it means --loosely--
reality equals light cubic times necessity or tangibility.
It is something I have been working on for quite a while.
James.
mmm stirs something in me that is very thought provoking. Cubic as in cube? Have to ponder over that for a while.
Cubic as in 3, the three components of known energy.
For example a Dominant Positive unit can have multiple characteristics of neutral and electric (negate-ive) energy, while still remaining dominant to the observer. Example:
26.1.0 would be a Dominant energy sequence of Neutral, having eight additional patterns of like energy in the sequence. Thus providing 1 prime patten and 8 sub patterns all within a single instance.
Each pattern is identified by a prim, codon and also a repetitive symbol. I have so far found consistent symbols and patterns in a series of 26.1.0 to 0.1.26 Dominant Neutral. In short, what appears to be a genetic map of energy.
James.
thesis, antithesis synthesis. the balance of opposing forces.
An interesting notation is the collective patterns end in 27. Which is a cubic 3, 2+7 = 9, 9 full patterns in each, 1 main + 8 sequential and 3 main symbols and 6 sub symbols in each.
and nine is the only number whose factors add up to nine.
2 × 9 = 18 (1 + 8 = 9)
3 × 9 = 27 (2 + 7 = 9)
9 × 9 = 81 (8 + 1 = 9)
121 × 9 = 1089 (1 + 0 + 8 + 9 = 18; 1 + 8 = 9)
234 × 9 = 2106 (2 + 1 + 0 + 6 = 9)
578329 × 9 = 5204961 (5 + 2 + 0 + 4 + 9 + 6 + 1 = 27 (2 + 7 = 9))
482729235601 × 9 = 4344563120409 (4 + 3 + 4 + 4 + 5 + 6 + 3 + 1 + 2 + 0 + 4 + 0 + 9 = 45 (4 + 5 = 9))
Nine is completion. then it orbits back to position zero but acquiring more value. like some kind of infinite spiral.
energy moves this way true, otherwise why does math do this?
okay... Energy (the 3 types) that created all that exists tangibly. Is that what you mean?
all fans of the Montreal Canadien hockey team go to Hell...
this fact appears in every religious text ever written
no compulsion to believe
I heard Ron Wilson was going to sign a pact with the devil to get a Stanley Cup.
Yes, but there's a new sheriff in town, Hendrik Sedin, the new captain of the Canuckleheads. The question is, can this Swedish meatball lead a team to the playoffs and beyond?
playoffs, sure
beyond, sure
the Cup.. I doubt it
We've tried the Swedish leadership approach here in Toronto...
left us under the Mats
And then somehow, through sheer outright disregard for intelligence, respect, honor or morals... we signed him.
it was worth a shot... we would have given you Domi too if you asked nicely
According to the good book of universal truth and knowledge, also salvation rule in the Bible. Only 144, ooo as written and sealed to go heaven, meaning 100 billion souls who ever lived on earth in history, go to hell.
Here is some maybe candidate for this (insane) list to go to hell
Thomas Jefferson, Albert Einstein, John Lennon, Atheists, Agnostic, Gays, Jews. How about Gandhi, Gautama (Buddha). Even Catholic Mother Teresa turned away in the end. Any other religion, from most of the population on earth that disagree with Christians. Many Chinese must have gone to hell. Only 3% Christian go to church and most Christian are not Christ like, could be in hell. Most of World’s population must be in extreme agony including many of my friends and family.
Here is to an all loving God, best parent and creator to his creatures he created and to everything on earth. God looses it all when he gets jealous, angry and most of all extremely picky. Who in the world would want to disagree with Yahweh God’s love, woops! most of the world already dose’. Put them on the suffering Hot list, too, their love is just not the rightous kind.
Who goes to hell?
The sinners who do wrongs with the fellow human beings and disobey the commandments of Allah-the Creator God.
That means 80% or more people go to hell on earth/
They can ask forgiveness of their sins from Allah-the Creator God, repent for their sins and resolve not doing the sins againe; then they can be forgiven:
[39:54] Say, “O My servants who have committed excesses against their own souls! despair not of the mercy of Allah, surely Allah forgives all sins. Verily He is Most Forgiving, Merciful.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/sh … p;verse=53
So no need to go to hell when heaven is so near for everybody.
When most of the world population are not aware of Allah. Where do people go, if not to Heaven or Hell, where then ? out into outerspace.
The other question might be...Where is there to go? All we have is now.
I like living in the now, best too.
Many people think the grass is greener some where else and at some other time period , like med evil times.
The solution is in increasing the awareness; there is no harm in increasing one's awareness.
It is harmful, when people live and fight like med evil times, is that much pass worth so little of awareness?
I believe we are looking at this from a different perspective. For those who followed the Judeo-Christian teachings we are all under the first sin which means everyone is on their way to hell. We have only one opportunity to avoid this fate and that is to accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior. There are no other options.
One Religion's heaven cancels out by the other Religion's heaven. That's how most people on earth are killed over the name of God than any other reason, plus, make lives hell on earth
People use religion for an excuse to do what they want to do and people don't seem to see what's right in front of their face so rather then blaming the individual let's blame everybody related.
Just how many times have people said-"I wasn't speeding?"
"Judeo-Christian?"
Jews do not believe in original sin.
Jews do not believe in hell.
Jews do not believe you have to believe anything in order to be "saved". Jews do not believe anyone needs to be "saved" at all.
It's an unfortunate thing that a lot of unpleasant Christian concepts have been grafted onto Judaism through this meaningless term.
live
Jesus is half Jewish, half god. He is not god, because god is god...
Are you half right or is there no contradiction in the Bible or did the Roman made up SATAN for control???
Maybe. I've read that a lot of Christianity was adopted from Mithraism, a popular religion at the time, in order for the new religion to have popular appeal.
You are correct,
People do foolish things in the name of God but their foolishness has nothing to do with God.
People like Pastor Jim Jone I believe at some point began to feel like he was a god and for the evil that he has done I believe he will pay dearly.
IF: "God" is almighty, and omnipotent. No one. Just one sheep lost means complete failure. Resistance is futile....you will be assimilated.
jomine wrote ....
ok energy exists. please post the picture of energy here so that i too will know what this stuff is...
- - = = - = - = -- ==
If intelligence or ignorance. exists, ? , show me a picture of them so that I may know what that stuff looks like.
It it does in fact exist ? someone must have a clear picture! otherwise it is just another myth.
If intelligence or ignorance. exists, ? ,
they donot exist. they are a perception by our brain
exist-something which have physical presence.
if those exists we could have took it in our hand!!!
and they certainly don't exists in anybodies brain either!! seeing how they opt for energy "existing"
That picture looks quite fake. Can you explain what we're seeing here?
Its energy of a human being (not enlarged) Taken with Kirlian photography. Jomine wanted to see a picture of energy by the way.
No such thing as energy of a human being in the form of Kirlian photography:
"Living things...are moist. When the electricity enters the living object, it produces an area of gas ionization around the photographed object, assuming moisture is present on the object. This moisture is transferred from the subject to the emulsion surface of the photographic film and causes an alternation of the electric charge pattern on the film. If a photograph is taken in a vacuum, where no ionized gas is present, no Kirlian image appears. If the Kirlian image were due to some paranormal fundamental living energy field, it should not disappear in a simple vacuum (Hines 2003)."
"In the early 1980’s, Dr. John Zimmerman began a series of important studies on therapeutic touch, using a SQUID magnetometer at the University of Colorado School of Medicine in Denver. Zimmerman discovered that a huge pulsating biomagnetic field emanated from the hands of a TT practitioner. The frequency of the pulsations is not steady, but "sweeps" up and down, from 0.3 to 30 Hz (cycles per second), with most of the activity in the range of 7-8 Hz (Figure 2). The biomagnetic pulsations from the hands are in the same frequency range as brain waves and scientific studies of the frequencies necessary for healing indicate that they naturally sweep back and forth through the full range of therapeutic frequencies, thus being able to stimulate healing in any part of the body.
Confirmation of Zimmerman’s findings came in 1992, when Seto and colleagues, in Japan, studied practitioners of various martial arts and other healing methods. The "Qi emission" from the hands is so strong that they can be detected with a simple magnetometer consisting of two coils, of 80,000 turns of wire. Since then, a number of studies of QiGong practitioners have extended these investigations to the sound, light, and thermal fields emitted by healers. What is particularly interesting is that the pulsation frequency varies from moment to moment. Moreover, medical researchers developing pulsating magnetic field therapies are finding that these same frequencies are effective for ‘ jump starting’ healing in a variety of soft and hard tissues, even in patients unhealed for as long as 40 years. Specific frequencies stimulate the growth of nerves, bones, skin, capillaries, and ligaments. Of course Reiki practitioners and their patients have daily experiences of the healing process being "jump started," and academic medicine is now beginning to accept this therapy as logical and beneficial because of these new scientific findings. In Figure 2 we have bracketed portions of the signal that correspond to the frequencies used in medical devices that stimulate the healing of particular tissues. Individual differences in energy projection and detection."
http://www.reiki.org/reikinews/sciencemeasures.htm
Here's the link you lifted that material from, btw.
Yes, reiki is as effective as any placebo. As far as the claims of reiki energy, there is no evidence whatsoever.
I know. placebo is great. most medicines claim effectivity by being 2% more effective than placebo consistently. Pharma writing has taught me a lot about how we don't need medicines. We can operate on belief alone and actually survive.
Placebo effect is all about belief. So if a person heals with Reiki...he heals. Why take that power away. It won't work without the belief that it will.
And, you got that gem of information from where?
I have no problem with placebos if they work, but I do have a problem with claims that reiki is little more than placebo.
well, if you're given a study that it does, would you accept it then? I don't think so. Placebo is an assault to common sense. But the Placebo effect is already an established phenomenon and most medicines are compared to placebo. You should have a problem with placebo because that study is saying just say this pill works and it will. Faith works. The mind is a miraculous organ in that it always tries to organize the body to fit its beliefs.
There are credible placebo studies on all of these:
* ADHD: adult,[126] child[104]
* Amalgam fillings: attributed symptoms (inert "chelation" therapy)[127]
* Anxiety disorders[128][129]
* Asthma (water aerosol inhalant)[130]
* Asthma[131][132]
* Autism: language and behavior problems[133][134]
* Benign prostatic enlargement[135]
* Binge eating disorder[136]
* Bipolar mania[137]
* Cough[5]
* Crohn's disease[138]
* Depression (light treatment; low red light placebo)[139]
* Depression[122][140][141][142]
* Dyspepsia and gastric motility[143]
* Epilepsy[144]
* Erectile dysfunction[145]
* Food allergy: ability to eat ill-making foods[60] p. 54
* Gastric and duodenal ulcers[60][125][146]
* Headache[147]
* Heart failure, congestive[148]
* Herpes simplex[149]
* Hypertension: mild and moderate[56][150]
* Irritable bowel syndrome[151][152]
* Migraine prophylaxis[153]
* Multiple sclerosis[154]
* Nausea: gastric activity[155]
* Nausea: chemotherapy[156]
* Nausea and vomiting: postoperative (sham acupuncture)[157]
* Pain[112][158]
* Panic disorders[159]
* Parkinson's disease[160][161]
* Pathological gambling[162]
* Premenstrual dysphoric disorder.[163]
* Psoriatic arthritis[164]
* Reflux esophagitis[165]
* Restless leg syndrome[166]
* Rheumatic diseases[167]
* Sexual dysfunction: women[168]
* Social phobia[169]
* Third molar extraction swelling (sham ultra-sound)[10][11]
* Ulcerative colitis[170]
* Vulvar vestibulitis
Once again, you got this little gem of information from where? You also didn't answer my previous question about your 2%.
Tries, but can fail often for obvious physical ailments that do require real treatment, not just belief.
this little gem from my decades of experience as a pharma writer...every medical writer knows this...but pretend science writers would never know this.
some people are sooo clueless...
Home » Scientific American Mind » February 2009
Features | Health
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Placebo Effect: A Cure in the Mind
Belief is powerful medicine, even if the treatment itself is a sham. New research shows placebos can also benefit patients who do not have faith in them
By Maj-Britt Niemi | February 25, 2009 | 12
The power of the mind is such a powerful thing! Pity not many put it to use. Perhaps that is why there is a need for Reiki healers and the like.
Perhaps because people do not know how to use their own power. I don't know.
we are all energy field misha. the matter you see, that too is energy. you want some study to prove that too?
From a skeptics point of view you are probably right. Are you debating that human beings then don't have energy? Or kirlian photography is false?
Kirlian's work, from 1939 onward, involved an independent rediscovery of a phenomenon and technique variously called "electrography", "electrophotography" and "corona discharge photography." The Kirlian technique is contact photography, in which the subject is in direct contact with a film placed upon a charged metal plate.
The underlying physics (which makes xerographic copying possible) was explored as early as 1777 by Georg Christoph Lichtenberg (see Lichtenberg figures). Later workers in the field included Nikola Tesla; various other individuals explored the effect in the later 19th and early 20th centuries.
Physics is a branch of science isn't it?
You have acknowledged energy exists so I am not sure what you are debating?
Yes.
Yes.
I'm not debating anything, just showing that Kirlian photography has been explained and has nothing to do with an alleged energy aura around a person.
So what is it taking photo's of? Or is that just bad developing?
Not only that all the other things mentioned in the article must not do what it says they do?
If we cannot rely on physics or scientists what are we to do?
It's in the Hines explanation I provided above.
Believe in invisible bronze age gods, instead?
Gas ionization that is produced when the moisture enters the object then. So it is a photo of a type of energy right?
It cannot be invisible if it is bronze haha!
The point is that what it is not is a picture of an aura of energy being emitted by a person.
In this respect, we can then conclude a light ray does not exist.
We can not see it. We only see particles of matter that illuminate when the light ray strikes it.
Using your logic, the illumination of such particles does not prove the existence of the light ray.
You may or may not be right; We can debate the meaning of words, Which does not change the reality of its existence.
We do not see the energy of a bolt of lightning falling from the sky. We only see the particles in the near proximity reacting to that energy contained in the lightning bolt.
The same can be said for the energy emitted from a light bulb.
Are you saying that because we can not see the actual energy,
Therefore it does not exist ????
No, we can conclude that the human body does not emit light.
No Jerami, that all appears to be what you're saying.
The same can be said for the energy emitted from a light bulb.
no energy is emitted from a light bulb. it emit light , which is a particle. it also cause vibration of the molecules of the filament , which increases the same of the gas that is filled in the bulb, which is transmitted to the glass, which again is transmitted to the outside which we appreciate as heat when the vibration is transmitted to our body. no concepts like energy is transmitted. in fact no concepts can be transmitted, only objects, that is, that which got physical presence, can be transmitted and can be said to exist. how can something exist without physical presence? electricity does not exist. it is electrons that exist and its motion we call as electricity. it is not heat or cold that exist, it is the vibration of molecules that we perceive as heat. or when you say current in a stream it is just the motion of water and it is the water that exists not the current.
You know you still seem to be talking about energy. Just describing it in more detail. What do you think?
So what is the picture of in your opinion? It is energy or not energy? When you can see heat coming off the pavement is that energy or not energy?
beelzedad has answered you pennyof heaven. so i am not going to repeat
i will try something else. have you heard of potential energy? e=mgh
the energy that something gets when it is raised from the ground. well me what happens? does the mass swells with energy that its length, breadth and height increases, or does the number of atoms in it increases?
He did?
Yes I have heard of that. So is your point...energy doesn't exist atoms and molecules do?
During the day, the sun gives out light and heat energy. Electrical energy to light our way. Your car drives by powered in gasoline, a type of stored energy. Food we eat contains energy, We store energy and use that energy to work and play. Energy Is the Ability to Do Work , matter sit there like a rock
Energy is found in different forms, chemical,electrical, heat (thermal energy), light (radiant energy), mechanical energy, and nuclear energy.
The signs for energy are everywhere, maybe he needs glasses.
sun gives light. i agree. i never said it doesn't. but what is light? isn't it a particle? can you tell how this heat gets to earth?
we don't store energy. we store glycogen and glucose.
chemical energy!!
when two particles combine or dissociate it emit some other smaller particles what we generally call light- some may be visible some may not.
where is the energy in that? it may also cause the particles to vibrate which we feel as heat, again where is the energy?
what is this mechanical energy stuff? when we push something it moves. is that mechanical energy? you need to study a little more on how muscles contract.(ganong a book on human physiology(standard book for medical students world wide) may be of help)
energy is a concept for as to easily explain all these. that is why we call light as energy which in realty is a particle- a particle moving at great speed.
Guys, have you ever felt the electricity when you looked at a woman eyes and caught her looking directly into your eyes, it’s an awesome, Wow feeling.
I did experiments on someone, myself, within a dark room with some light. From your naked eye you can see a person coloured halo, as many did with Jesus high energy halo around his head. You can see also electricity cross from your one finger tips to your other finger tips.
The very low energy to go to hell is way beyond my understanding
Yes absolutely....Er well guys lol. However, some people need proof if they have not seen the halo or the finger tips. They see the heat rise from the pavement. Feel the heat off another person. Thats ok it seems. Yet when persons like yourself see what you see and feel what you feel. You need proof haha!
In case you missed it, check out this hub: http://hubpages.com/hub/How-could-a-lov … reate-Hell
I could say that that a man that does not have the chance to KNOW God truly, and repent, he will surely go to HELL.
We must all repent from our sins. Even in war when you KILL a man in DEFENSE of your country, you must ask GOD for forgiveness, because WE have no RIGHT to take away human lives at all. These wars and killings we face nowadays are simply consequences of our own sins. We kill to protect our selves from problems we create from generation to generation. So if you Kill in a war and do not repent, you will surely face no good after death. SO both man who truly repent and having* accepted The Lord Jesus as their truly and only SAVIOR will face the heavens after death. All others will face HELL. A place prepared for the DEVIL and He's angels and to all those who practice iniquities and do not repent.
Face it. Everyone goes to hell - hopefully on the way to heaven.
Why because every religion tells you, If you do not follow my way you will rot in hell.
Therefore we all go to hell. It's also called purgatory. Some just get to stay longer than others.
So is hell - hot or cold?
Hard to say. If everyone goes to hell it is getting crowded. If hell space is not capable of expanding then hell is hot. If hell is capable of expanding then hell could be cold.
I also have proof from my college days that hell is cold because
Sally Masterson told me it would be a "cold day in hell" before she would ever go out with me. We have been married for over 25 years.
It's been hell but she's the best thing that ever happened to me.
who goes to hell?
Why should one choose to go to hell? The doors of heaven are open; one should endeavor to enter heaven.
Where is hell? Where is heaven for you?
Jerami wrote …
The same can be said for the energy emitted from a light bulb.
jomine wrote ..
no energy is emitted from a light bulb.
= = = = =
Are you sure? No energy is emitted ? OH! ; you are talking about when the electricity is turned off! As everyone knows, when electricity flows through any conduit, electrons release into the air unless the conduit is insulated properly with non conductive material. Sense there is no insulating material encasing the light bulb energy will be released.
= = = = =
jomine wrote .. it emit light , which is a particle.
= = = = =
yes, and what kind of particles are these if not energy particles ?
==============
Thanks I see clearly now.
By the way; The purpose for the gas in the light bulb is that the filament doesn't instantly burn up when the energy flows through it.
By the way; The purpose for the gas in the light bulb is that the filament doesn't instantly burn up when the energy flows through it.
DID I TELL IT IS NOT. have you ever studied how you "heat energy" is transmitted ever?
i was just telling that in addition to the "radiating light" the gas particles also help in conducting the heat. i was just explaining how it happens(by the way i didn't find it out. it is taught in you elementary physics class. i was just adding some rationality into it while you were imagining "energy" into "existence".
"yes, and what kind of particles are these if not energy particles ?"
if you are going to call light as energy particles then it is ok. you were giving just another name to light and that is all.but what about this mechanical energy, potential energy, kinetic energy, thermal energy? does this exist as particle too? like your light?
The field is also called high energy physics, because many elementary particles do not occur under ambient conditions on Earth. They can only be created artificially during high energy collisions with other particles in particle accelerators.
Scientific research in this area has produced a long list of particles.
Showing quarks, leptons and the interacting particles, according to the Standard Model Modern particle physics research is focused on subatomic particles, including atomic constituents such as electrons, protons, and neutrons (protons and neutrons are actually composite particles, made up of quarks), particles produced by radioactive and scattering processes, such as photons, neutrinos, and muons, as well as a wide range of exotic particles.
You have already got the noble prize! You deserve another!
neutrons (protons and neutrons are actually composite particles, made up of quarks), particles produced by radioactive and scattering processes, such as photons, neutrinos, and muons, as well as a wide range of exotic particles
all these are particles thought to be existing inside an atom(though we really do not know how does an atom look like)
you were discussing about particles not energy.
i thought the discussion was on energy......
What do I know; I’m just a curious artist with ideas
Maybe you can Change history like Darwin did from dragons to dinosaurs bones, yet this sounds much greater and grander,
Who you really have to answer to, is the vast majority of top scientist that describes and label energy as energy, in order to collect your prize, if it really matters.
Pot heads and gays are not harmful; let’s start by changing those unethical rules
Who you really have to answer to, is the vast majority of top scientist that describes and label energy as energy, in order to collect your prize, if it really matters.
how do we know what the scientists say is true? if we can believe scientists blindly we can do that to the schizophrenics who shout about god. all we have to do is to think whether they say is RATIONAL or not before we accept anything, otherwise anybody can take advantage of us......
You can't use the God card as for top scientist having schizophrenics
Since most professional scientist are either atheist or agnostic.
They will beat you down to the ground with logic and reason
People with wild imaginary friend's can be locked up at the funny farm, check out religion
I was simply attempting to explain what I was thinking; not very well I might add.
I think Castlepaloma answered quite well.
Sorry ... I gotta hit and run again, duty calls.
The Bible teaches that hell was reserved for Satan and his followers. Through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ fallen man has a chance if we make the right choice. Deuteromony 30:19
We don't and should not judge others; we try to save ourselves and others with peaceful arguments.
who goes to hell?
Those who are distant from the Creator-God.
...apparently the two church members that rang my door bell yesterday and handed me a small brochure explaining why i may go to damnation and hell...I think the implied message was if I didn't join their church I would.
..not very happy with these messengers...
Since hell is an invention of the church to control the behavior of the masses and there is really no such place, nobody will be going there.
Who goes to hell?
Those who are distant from the Creator-God Allah YHWH.
That means 80% of us go to hell, great work Allah, your 2nd best
That is your guess.
Now you should try to become close to Him and you will go to heaven with His mercy.
All that shoulding, makes hell on earth.
I think I was near hell the other day. Hell Michigan. Look it up.
As grand Ma used to say .... You made your own bed ... now you gotta sleep in it.
I think she knew I had eaten crackers in it too.
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