Let us not be led astray by non-believers

1. 60

   thirdmilleniumposted 13 years ago

   Whenever a religious discussion is mooted, we invariably find  that people completely veer off the point and turn it into a discussion about God's existence. It is always whether there is God or not. Always. Ad nauseam.  It is boring and getting repetitive. And, frustrating, i can tell you.
   
   
   The best thing for the discussion to go on the path that it is started for is to ignore the people who interject points that have nothing to do with the topic in discussion.
   
   This  has nothing to do with the intruders' personality or traits. It merely means that their arguments not be given any attention unless it pertains to the topic under the microscope and get on with the discussion at hand.

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      Davidsonofjesieposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I thought I was the only one that felt that way , A-man

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         Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         No - all religionists wish they could get rid of anyone who does not believe the nonsense they believe.
         
         Thank goodness you can no longer burn them.

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         1. 67

            aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            No, we don't burn them.
            
            I NEVER burned one yet.
            
            Glad to hear you are feeling safe now.
            But, enjoy whilst you can. If Islam takes Europe over, well ... who knows
            there may be some body parts getting separated from the body.
            
            You could always come down to Australia. We still have a little room.
            We also tolerate Atheist to the most part.
            heck, our PM IS one.

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               jomineposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               I NEVER burned one yet.
               
               but given a chance!!!
               Giordano Bruno was murdered by your co-religionists though!!

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      TamCorposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I agree...

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   3. 61

      kessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      When should you allow your belief to sway?
      
      Many by stregth resolve will not allow their belief to stray...
      this resolve is further strenghened by their many heated arguments.
      
      now if your belief is based on confidence in the knowledge of Truth...
      then the strenght of resolve is become unnecessay or we may also say has its foundation from the knowledge of Truth.
      
      So if there be any swaying in such a man , then it will be toward Truth and not away from it.
      
      many strenghthen their resolve to follow a truth, which is merely an opinion of another....
      these usually uses quotation from their man made souce of authoruty, as in their varied forms of research and studies based on human writings.
      
      These are those still in darkness.
      
      I am streghtened in my resolve to follow Truth, This Truth originate from within me and  it in turn gives further strenght to my resolve...
      
      And no man no thing cab sway such one.
      
      For Truth is His resolution  and his resolution  is Truth.

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      Flightkeeperposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I think many believers would agree with that.  It would help also that there is topic that would be interesting to discuss and those topics have been sparse.  I'm not talking about the ones started by non-believers because they are so many and I'm glad that the discussion is there for the non-believers -- it actually promotes more people to look into the Bible to know more about it.

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      1. 59

         Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Yup. I have had quite a lot of peopel thank me for pointing out the inconsistencies in the bible that they did not know were there. Turns out they had been lied to all their lives. More and more are realizing how damaging your religion is. We should keep doing it - education will eventually eradicate this disease.

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      Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Advocating that people ignore other people? Is this the kind of Love and Compassion you were taught?
      
      WOW!

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2. 67

   aka-djposted 13 years ago

   I agree with the OP.
   
   I have often expressed a similar frustration.
   
   I think their (hidden) agenda is to scare, or intimidate everyone out of the forum.
   
   If religion is "meaningless" to them, WHY BOTHER????
   BEATS ME
   
   You can even try to ignore them, but others come along, hold discussions with them, and the topic is invariable derailed.
   
   Patience my friend, patience!!!

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   1. 59

      Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      It is not meaningless dj - it is dangerous. As you have just explained - if Islam takes over Europe, the body parts will start flying. So - you see that as a threat and cannot understand that your irrational belief system is just as dangerous and likely to encourage this type of behavior. We have only just managed to take that power away from the Christians.
      
      Yeah - I know how tolerant you are down under. Why just recently the PM apologized to the aborigines for stealing their children to be educated in good christian homes. The "Aboriginal problem" I believe you called it.
      
      But - worry not - I am as scathing of Islam as I am of your cult. I see no difference - they are just a few hundred years behind the times.

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         just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Hi Mark. I think we have a point we can agree on. That's a woohoo moment for me. Probably doesn't do much for you though.
         
         I think there are many that see the spread of Islam as a sign of the end and might be prone to rush to war.
         
         But, as it stands, I still believe corporate greed is the devil that dogs this country. It is what has pulled us into all of the conflicts during my lifetime.

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            Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Most Christian religionists see Islam as a threat - so no - not surprised we agree on this. Pity you cannot see that that is what your religion looks like to us thinkers.
            
            Yes - agree on the corporate greed as well. Hard to say which is worse, religion, central banks or corporations. Sadly the government of the day follows whichever has the power.
            
            Power has moved from religion to banks and corporations. The owners are the same though - as are the tactics. Fear and divide and conquer. 
            
            Fear Islam
            Fear aging
            Fear liberals
            Fear communists
            Fear the boogy man
            
            Join us and be saved!

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               just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               I agree completely with your post, except for the fact that you say I can't see what people see of Christianity. I get that point too.

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      2. 67

         aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         It would be so nice if you could just 'GET WITH THE TIMES"
         You seem to be so dogged by history, it's scary.
         I'll have to start citing & pasting soon, because I'm tired of typing the same stuff ova & ova & ova to you.
         I don't start wars, I don't rape boys, I don't burn witches, and I don't knock on doors.
         
         Why do you find it so pleasing to "tar me with the same brush" as those who have done these things? (In the past, or present)!
         Last I heard, that's called prejudice, bias and just downright "redneck" behaviour.
         If had done any of the above, you would be right in calling me so, but I haven't.
         
         Why the %*&$ am I explaining this to you anyway?
         
         You are as blind and bigoted as they come, you don't read and you don't listen. 

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         1. 59

            Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            History is how we learn stuff dj.
            
            How odd that you think Islam is a threat - yet pretend your own religion never did these things.
            
            I do read and I do listen. History is one of the things I read and listen. This gives me legitimate reasons to think your religion is not a good thing.
            
            I am not blind or bigoted -  I can see you stirring trouble with the Islamists. I think your religion is bad dj. You are prepared to write off all the bad things done in the name of your god as not being worth learning from. Why?

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               aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               SEE, I told you that you don't read!
               
               I wasn't referring to read in general. I meant read what I write.
               
               Sorry, accusation stands!!!
               
               I could just as easy say all Brits are warmongers because they conquered a huge part of the world, forced their culture on other countries, killed millions, and you are as bad as they come. "I hate you, 'case your a Brit". (I don't, but to follow your mentality). You are the one who has dispossessed the Aborigines, taken away their country and turned it into a penal colony.
               
               You, cannot disassociate yourself from your past either!!

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               1. 59

                  Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  No - I cannot. I am disgusted at our past behavior and would never consider pushing the ideals that led us to that behavior. Yet you persist in clinging to the religion that caused us to do these bad things.
                  
                  I never said I hate you dj. Please do not put words in my mouth.
                  
                  I hate your religion - because of what it does to people. Just as I hate the past (and present) Nationalism  of my country. Disgusting behavior. I am ashamed I was incapable of stopping the current atrocities we are perpetuating in Afghanistan and Iraq. I have no voice. None. Powerless to prevent it - but - no way I am going to promote the values that cause it.
                  
                  Pity you cannot say the same thing.
                  
                  Oddly - British Nationalism is very, very closely tied to religion. My Granddad still visits the regimental colors hung in the local church.

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                  1. 67

                     aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Oh, I see.
                     I finally make a point you CAN relate to.
                     
                     Ditto to your disdain for the past wrongs.
                     
                     I don't stick to their ideology you so mercilessly peruse.
                     I have told you before that I hate religion also.
                     The trouble with you is that you cannot see why there is a difference between what I stand for, and what my "religion" stands for. (Actually it's not MY religion. It's what you conceive it to be).
                     
                     So, please, don't lump me in together with the warmonger list. Thanks. That would be real civil of you, and I know you CAN be VERY civil.

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                     1. 59

                        Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        No dj. The fact that you delude yourself into thinking you are not following a religion is of no consequence to me. you have a book and a list of values other people should follow. You are selling an afterlife - but only if.
                        
                        You have religion dj. And - it will cause you to go to war with Islam if the need arose.
                        
                        That is how religion works dj. Read a few history books and you would understand.

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                           aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           Wasting my time, yet again.
                           I must be a glutton for punishment.
                           
                           Of course, you would NEVER go to war with Islam, Christianity or another country.
                           You would just surrender, let them run you out, kill you, rape your family etc. A true pacifist, to the last.
                           GMAB

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                           1. 59

                              Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              I am not claiming to follow the credo "turn the other cheek" dj.
                              
                              You are.
                              
                              Never understood why Christians will kill to save their lives. Almost like they don't actually believe what the bible says.
                              
                              I will protect me and mine if necessary - yes. I would much rather discourage the development of a divisive ethos such as nationalism, Islam, Christianity etc that makes it necessary for me to do so. Education is the answer. Perhaps once we can drop these irrational beliefs - we can progress? Not worth trying hi dj? Keep the status quo.
                              
                              Odd that you so aggressively defend your religion - knowing full well what it produces.

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                                 aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 You contradict yourself!
                                 
                                 You say that I start wars by being part of some religion,
                                 then you identify me with this credo of turning the other cheek!
                                 
                                 Which am I? I clearly can't be both at the same time!!

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                                    Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                    There is a word dj.

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                                       aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                       You either don't know it, or don't want to say it.
                                       
                                       Curious!
                                       
                                       In any case, Im not both!

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                                          Mark Knowlesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                          See if you can work it out dj. A person who says they turn the other cheek yet spends a lot of time fighting. Bet you can do it.

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                           2. 58

                              Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              Why would Christians want to run us out, kill us or rape our families?
                              
                              Did we miss a memo?

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                           3. 0

                              bolt1951posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              What is really a pacifist? really, a new word, Mr, Knowles like every human being would what he had to do in a situation where his family were in danger. That's a natural instinct within every human being and animals alike.Nowif on the other hand when one is looking for an excuse,
                              there are plenty of those to justify going to war for. Bush is a prime example of justification to invade a country that had nothing to do with 9/11
                              
                              I guess he sent our troops to get slaughtered and have them slaughter innocent woman, Men children old and young? I suppose you find absolutely nothing wrong in that action?  the WMD story really settles right with you? the lie means nothing and getting involved in other countrys business is just fine, which makes me wonder if you would allow anyone to just walk in your home and just tell you you must leave because I am now taking over your home, This type of thinling is exactly one of the reasons why deep down inside I believe humanity is closer to extinction now more than ever in the history of all mankind, I also believe we will be witness to some or the beginning of this. Our Children and Grandchildren will gave to bare that burden, has that ever crossed your war mongoring mind?

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                                 aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                 I'm not sure how much of this (or any other thread you have been following. But, my response to Mark is based on almost 2.5 yrs of "discussion". I am simply fed up with being called (by association) a warmonger, child molester, homphobe and other like things simply because I say I'm a Christian.
                                 Just because the (Catholic) church has been guilty of so much, I consider it an insult to be labeled as such.
                                 
                                 Thanks for your balanced response, though.

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                                    just_curiousposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                                    Hey dj. I didn't read your response, but I'm sure you felt justified. Mark can really push the envelope. Don't let it keep you down. You seem like a very good guy. We all blow hot sometimes. We're only human.

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3. 74

   skyfireposted 13 years ago

   F----g Hilarious. Theist brains.

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   1. 67

      aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you for your well considered response.
      
      Just have a look, and see how many people no longer enter these forums.
      
      Comments like your sure helps open the door to usher them out.

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      1. 74

         skyfireposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Oh noes, don't tell me that bible thumpers are afraid of non-believers ? Unlike you i don't have any agenda to trash deluded minds out of forums. I enjoy BS from people like you when i turn off forum filter.

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4. 71

   LeanManposted 13 years ago

   Wouldn't life be boring if everyone just told you how right you were in everything that you believe!
   
   But you want the right to ram your BS down our throats and us not to argue about it..... Sorry!! Not going to happen...
   
   If you want to have a forum where everyone just says hallelujah to what you type make your own forum and just invite your friends!

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      aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      We actually expected THIS forum to be just that.
      Trouble is, everyone CAN enter, do so, and create the "problem".
      
      BTW, who exactly is cramming anything down your throat? Are they spamming you?
      
      It's kind of, "enter at your own risk", in the forum. Does someone MAKE you enter and read?

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5. 0

   thedietviewposted 13 years ago

   i think everyone needs religion , its important for me to believe in god and i think everyone needs a believe in something, wouldnt the world be a horrible place if you shunned his excistance beacause of your ignorance ?!?!?

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      wildernessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Interesting post.  You need religion (you need someone to tell you what God has determined as the difference between right and wrong?) and therefore no one else is capable of making the distinction either?
      
      And no, the world would not be a horrible place if everyone realized that mythology is just that - mythology.  Rather it would be a better place if everyone used their brain to actually think and reason instead of imagining that whatever they want to be true actually is true.  Ignorance might actually give way to knowledge and reality!

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         thedietviewposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         do u not think it helps people ? for example :parents who have lost there children or married people who have lost spouses
         It helps them believing there is a greater being out there looking after the souls of there lost loved ones , and helps them survive each day.
         its helps ease the pain sometimes just believing i know cause it helps me
         just my opinion !

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            spookyfoxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            It's irrelevant whether it helps or not, that's treating everyone like a child and prolonging the ilusion of Santa. Pain is necessary for growth.

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            Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Sounds like a bunch of people unwilling to be responsible for every aspect of their life and much rather leave it up to someone else? WHY? Who knows.

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   thedietviewposted 13 years ago

   its not irrelevant if it helps of not , if it helps its awesome , its not treating people like children its just giving you some comfort in there time of need is that so bad ?? really ??
   
   if thats the case :  if u give someone a hug when they are feeling down would that not fall into the same catagory ?
   
   should we all just practise tough love  ????

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      spookyfoxposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      No. A hug is much much better than an illusion. I'm not saying something that helps confort is bad or should not be done, but that whether it helps or not is irrelevant to how true it is.
      
      Doing things because it makes you or someone else feel good (a hug) is fine. Believing something to be true because it helps you avoid some pain is not.

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7. 50

   paarsurreyposted 13 years ago

   Let us not be led astray by non-believers
   
   
   There is no harm if the Atheists Agnostics or other non-believers express their viewpoint with brilliant arguments, if any.

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8. 0

   bolt1951posted 13 years ago

   I expected that type of response, very predictable as usual the let's pass the blame on something else, that should distract them from the truth, I guess your one of the WMDS believers. such an obious misuse of power, and an imbarrasment to our country and our Constitution. And if you are looking for people leaving forums where do you find the time to do that? with so much real issues are at stake, and of  more importance. Please at least make an attempt to look at reality and be truthful to yourself and the rest of the forum for that matter.

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9. 50

   paarsurreyposted 13 years ago

   Let us not be led astray by non-believers
   
   It is the brillinat arguments the religionists should arm with and silence the atheists non-believers.
   There is no harm if the Atheists Agnostics or other non-believers express their viewpoint with brilliant arguments, if any.

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