All too often the Bible is ridiculed as nonsense, and that it has ZERO historical value.
I don't believe that for one moment, but, so many people always ask for proof. Of course, when it's offered, it too is dismissed. But, here i go, yet again, trying.
The Hittites were inly ever mentioned in the Old Testament, but had no histaoric basis outside of that. Not until recently, that is.
Let me have it with both barrels!
Tell me what nonsense this is, also!
Over 60 excavation campaigns have been conducted but much work still needs to be done. While interesting finds were made, so far archaeologists were unable to find the royal tombs or the cemetery of Hattusha. Until these are found, there is a painful lack of confirmation of lengthy king lists touted to be accurate
So - from the lead you supply it says that the inflated and imaginary claims of some missionary in 1800+something that the tablets he saw represent the Hittite empire are still yet to be proven.
Did you actually read this stuff before you put it up as some kind of support for your argument ?
Not only this, but some parts of the Bible being historically accurate doesn't make the entire document true. If I travel forward two thousand years into the future with a copy of Harry Potter and say, "Look, there's a train in this book! Just like there was in those days! As foretold in the Prophecy!" it doesn't mean wizards actually exist.
You hit the nail on the head.
The question that comes to mind then, is,
"just how much of it's historical accuracy needs to be validated, before the rest can be taken as fact, true, accurate, or reliable"?
20%, 30%, 50%? I doubt there would be more than 50% of all it's contents that would fall in the category of verifiable via archaeology.
You make a good point. To put your percentages another way, What percentage of the Bible must be shown to be inaccurate before the whole thing could be shown as historically inaccurate; 80% 70% or 50% ?
Even if 20-50% of material in the bible can be proven as authentic, you would still have 50-80% BS such as magic, zombies, and Gods. Harry Potter is a book with bona fide places written into the story line, does this mean it’s the genuine?
Please feel free to base your life and eternal destiny on Harry Potter.
I am quite content to base mine on the Bible!
There is no difference. Both are equally absurd. But feel free to desperately believe that your delusion is somehow superior to other fairytales.
Thank you for your permission. Not that I needed it, but it's nice to see you acknowledge my God given right to do just that.
I guess you don't need my permission to base your life on anything you want, so I won't waste my time.
Oh, and thanks for the ridicule. That helps our relationship immensely!
dj - if you don't want to be ridiculed - why start threads like this? Clearly - you did not know there are references to Hittites outside the bible, you did not even bother reading the article you linked to and then offered this as some sort of proof that the majik in the bible is true.
Ridiculous behavior dj. This is why you got ridiculed. It is ridiculous to suggest that an historic reference in the Bible some how proves the majik is true.
This is why your religion causes so many conflicts dj.
I will be nice to you, on this one special day of yours.
Yeah. Backhanded attacks such as that pretty much sums up your religion dj.
You are such a sook!
You dish out all sorts of trash, in the guise of opinion, BUT you can't enjoy a tongue in cheek rebuttal.
Still, N-JOY your special day. (second only to winter solstice, if I remember correctly).
Are these not your words? Did you not start this thread? Were you not educated as a result?
It would appear then that Mark is quite correct and if you don't want to be ridiculed, you should do your homework rather than start threads like this.
I think your logic and reason has twisted your ability to communicate.
Most of what you write makes no sense at all.
I forgive you!
Terribly sorry, I tried not to use too many multi-syllable words and kept my response dumb-downed so you could understand.
That makes it all the worst!
It still doesn't make sense.
You obviously have a hard time getting your point across!
Maybe you should concentrate on writing Hubs, to improve your communication skills.
Yes, thank you for that constructive criticism.
"Ask permission to say anything that could be taken the wrong way, from the person. "Pardon me, but do you mind if I point something out to you about that (. . xyz. . .)?" Though you may have a valid reason to "help" the other person, they may not want it (right now). This could have been obtained previously. You may have a good relationship with the other person, and you may have at some point agreed, that if something needs to be said, or pointed out, you are free to do so."
If that's supposed to make me apologise for giving unwanted advice, it didn't work.
If you keep engaging me in conversation, you invite a response, be it advice or something other.
To date you have not posted a single, decent constructive comment to me, with the exception of this one. I shall feel free to ignore any further comments you make.
You have anice day now!
So in a nut shell, you believe in slavery, murder, sacrifices, genocide, magic, zombies, God/s, talking animals, talking bushes, and children eating bears O MY. Kudos for you!
I can't deny these things exist and they all happened.
Just by way of example, slavery is aive and "well" today. However, it's not we Christians who run or profit from them. These are usually criminals who are prosecuted when caught.
I believe in grace, mercy, peace, joy, eternal life, health, blessing, family, patience, forgiveness, and truth.
Yes, kudos for me, I guess.
So you cherry pick the bible and take only the good?
Right back at ya.
You only cherry pick the negative.
No I didn’t cherry pick at all. I will admit that the bible speaks of love and virtues as well as hate and immoral behaviors.
Yes, you did. And I quote!
"So in a nut shell, you believe in slavery, murder, sacrifices, genocide, magic, zombies, God/s, talking animals, talking bushes, and children eating bears O MY. Kudos for you!"
You now list a wider range of moral issues.
I live under the NT, and I'd like you to point out to me where the Followers of Jesus are taught to hate, murder, enslave, abuse other human beings.(In the Bible)
I'm not talking about what religion has done in history, but what was (and still is) taught in the NT.
You need to read the bible and comprehend it. All of the OT laws still stand until heaven and earth are destroyed. Jesus only came to remove the sacrificial laws.
I live under the NT.
Did you not get that?
What IS a testament? (clue)
The bible is a collection of writing clasped together to form a book. You have chosen to removed the first half of this book and cherry pick what you believe best suits you.
So, in your argument against me, and what I believe, you also cherry picked what suited you, and you argument.
You did not answer my question.
No I am not cherry picking anything. You for the 4th time are cherry picking your own religious book to suit your needs. You obviously cannot communicate with me on cherry picking, because you obviously do not comprehend what cherry picking means.
I certainly don't have your meaning for it. Although I suspect you know EXACTLY what I mean, just can't seem to face reality.
I don't suppose I will get that definition of testament from you.
Whenever you educate yourself on communicating with others, write me back.
I never stated that I didn’t know the definition of testament and there are more definitions than the one you posted. You still cherry pick the bible, no matter what the definition of testament is.
Now, that's not quite right.
If the definition of testament is what it is, and we have a NEW one, it obviously supersedes the OLD one. (logical, no?) Therefore, the Jews lived under the old "testament", and WE live under the NEW one.
So, where exactly in the NEW, does Jesus teach us to do all the stuff you(cherry picked) from the Old?
WOW, you really must to educate yourself on definitions. New Testament in no way negates an Old Testament. .Now then, if you would have read the first part of this conversation I stated very clearly that the OT still stands as law. It is not vanquished until heaven and earth are destroyed.
Thanks, but I suggest you take a deeper look at the teachings of the NT.
What you say, is correct, but only partially.
The Law is in force on all those who are NOT in Christ. He is the END of the law AND the Prophets.
He gave a NEW commandment.
have you read them?
New International Version (©1984)
I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
New Living Translation (©2007)
I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God's law will disappear until its purpose is achieved.
English Standard Version (©2001)
For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
That is not going to help. These guys don't actually read the bible.
You need not have quoted these to me.
I never doubted you, because I know this.
It's you who is missing the point.
I will go and get the scriptures I was referring to.
Don't go away.
I have already debated on this numerous times. No matter what you pitch at me the EARTH is still here.
I hope this is not too much for you.
I will let this speak for itself. Thanks.
John 13:34 - A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
Romans 6:14 - For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
Romans 7:4 - Likewise, my brethren, you have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead in order that we may bear fruit for God.
Romans 7:6 - But now we are discharged from the law, dead to that which held us captive, so that we serve not under the old written code but in the new life of the Spirit.
Romans 8:2 - For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the law of sin and death.
Romans 10:4 - For Christ is the end of the law, that every one who has faith may be justified.
Romans 13:8 - Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.
Galatians 4:4 - But when the time had fully come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law,
Galatians 4:5 - to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons.
Galatians 5:14 - For the whole law is fulfilled in one word, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
Galatians 5:18 - But if you are led by the Spirit you are not under the law.
What do you think you our to the character named God in the bible? You are to be a slave to him. Nothing more and nothing less. Christianity is a huge profit organization.
Not good grammer. Not sure what you are saying.
We are all slaves to something, or someone.
I don't mind being a "slave" of God. But, you'd better get a clear understanding of what that really means.
I'm sure, the only slave you can think of is one that is less than a prisoner, to be abused at will. In that context, NO I'M NOT.
What/who are you a slave to?
Please don't say "nothing, no-one". Give it some thought first!
Well, if you are using the word slave as a hard worker then yes I am. If you are using the word slave as dominated by another person or forced to work for another being than no I am not.
You are satisfied with being a slave to the mythical creature named God in the bible? This would mean bowing to his/her/it’s will. If this being tells you to slay your friend/ child/ lover then you would do this? If this being kills off 98% of the population you would be okay with this? People you know burning in eternal flames for this creatures amusement and you would kneel beneath his/her/it’s feet and tolerate this?
No, Just trying to see how much of your brain matter has been removed through religion.
That's an irrational statemenet!
Even a lobotomised ignoramus, such as myself can see that.
Irrational – lacking reasoning or logic. Believing in a zombie with magical powers – Irrational.
It would be nice to stay on TOPIC, please.
Religion does not remove barn matter!
SURGERY does. To say religion does, is irrational.
If you want to discuss anything, stay on topic. Not jump around because you get all emotional.
Bible is a mix; some parts of Bible could have a glimpse of truth in it but others are just manmade.
To be honest, I only skim read it.
I was inspired by a TV documentary on the subject.
But, after your challenge, I had a better read. I found that the existence of the Hittites is not in question, as you claim, but the lineage of the KINGs.
So, my main OP point still stands.
There are plenty of reports concerning the Hittites carved into stone in Egyptian temples. Ramses II, arguably the greatest of the pharaohs led a major campaign against them.
Why should I worry about whether or not to believe the Bible, when I can see the facts in carvings that have survived from the period in question?
Dear me. So - you thought there was no mention of the Hittites outside the bible huh?
Now you know there are plenty of references to them - what does that mean to you?
Does this mean Jesus does not speak to you into your head any more? Seeing as you are not religious in any way shape or form.
The Museum of Anatolian Civilizations has a tremendous amount of artifacts regarding the Hittites. It also has a tremendous amount of artifacts from civilizations that existed thousands of years before them. *hint hint*
Do you believe the movies you watch are real life or historical facts? (not the documentary types but entertainment movies). Those settings are based partly on real facts as well...But they are still not real...The choice to believe the bible as 100% historical fact is on you...is there some good things in the bible...yes...but it was still written by poetic embellishing authors, not by some divine being...and before you say anything...all artistic things, to include books, paintings, songs are all "divinely" inspired...as in your mind and imagination creates them.
Nice post dj..
They still act like doubting in God is hard huh?
Wonder why they tempt people so?
Little tempters they are.. Tempt away little ones..
My house is on a rock.
Be encouraged, 2/3rds of the Angels cheer you on and they dont shriek,spit or mock untelligently.
Wow. Yet another conflict-filled thread started by a religionist who knows nothing of history or science. And you think there are angels cheering?
Little wonder your religion causes so many conflicts.
It certainly is. It proves beyond a reasonable doubt that the bible is stolen content. I am surprised you noticed.
The Angels are cheering yet another battle started by a religionist who tells untruths? What an odd imagination you have. Shows why your religion causes so many wars though.
Dang !! and I was hoping to get a glimpse of some hysterical hottites here !
If anyone's reading this from the Uk and interested; then get on iplayer and watch "The Bible's Buried Secrets" which discusses the Bible's interpretation of real events.
Some things in the bible are based loosely on what the authors observed around them, but the majority is myth. It's not really the authors' faults; they had to work to an agenda and had some pretty sketchy facts to go on with a lot of what they wrote - often where the things they noted took place hundreds of years before...
I watched with great interest and believe what's-her-face raised some very good points on the probable spinning up of King David in episode 1 and the early polytheism of the Semitic people in episode 2. However the Garden of Eden argument was not well presented and not particularly convincing. Her whole argument was based upon similarities between Eden and some excavated remains of similar gardens, but she ignored all of the Hebrew text which did not agree with her. Sure it's hard to compress an alternative theory into an hour's programme, but it didn't sound like she was being objective.
No, I agree that the last one did seem a little rushed and forced upon to audience. I don't disagree with her necessarily; I just felt that it wasn't presented particularly well.
You're right, that it is difficult to get through it in an hour and you are left with little way of reviewing the evidence for yourself (unless you have a degree in ancient hebrew and an annotated hebrew bible with you!) which makes me feel a little uncomfortable at times.
I think with regards to her style; she's essentially presenting as a polemic, or at least that's how I chose to view it.
Of course you think so.
The Koran is your history book!
Is Bible a book of history?
I don't think so
I don't think that Bible claims to be a book of history? If it does not claim to be a book of history; why should you claim it to be one?
That does not make it a text book of history. Does it?
For your standpoint, it's probably worth bearing in mind that an awful lot of the koran is duplicated from the Torah/ Old testament...
So. mr faded snow
did you read the list?
I have to go to bed, so, I can't continue the debate.
I see, after 25 minutes you have not responded. Surely that was long enough to read the above post.
Catch ya another day.
Like I said, the Earth is still here. I can continue to post contradictions in the bible as you did but I would eventually obtain carpal tunnel syndrome from typing.
The only thing abolished at the cross was the ceremonial law, contained in ordinances. They were the sacrificial laws. After Christ's death, it was no longer necessary to sacrifice lambs at the Temple. But, after the death of Christ, Christians were still obligated to keep the moral law!
Here is something you might find interesting Fadedsnow. Read about John the Baptist. His message for forgiveness of sin was to be baptised and Jesus agreed with it. How did we go from animal sacrifice to water baptism back to an ultimate sacrifice that covered everything? And yet one is still baptised by fire? I wonder how the christians will explain this one?
Jesus was a Jew and was a follower of Moses and the Torah; he never aboulished or cancel it; it is Paul and the Church who cancelled it and misled the people; unauthorized, of course.
The bible is crystal clear, “cough”, that Jesus died to remove the sacrificial laws.
How deep down the water hole are we going? There isn’t any evidence of Jesus existence much less his writings.
Christ was a sin offering: Hebrews 10: 8-10, 12, 18. When Jesus died on the cross, it signified the end of the first covenant, the covenant consisting of the sacrificing of animals for atonement.
"There isn’t any evidence of Jesus existence much less his writings."
Jesus did not die on the cross; human sacrifice was already abolished in the times of Abraham; so there was no core change with the advent of Jesus; Jesus followed religion of Moses .
Well actual there isn't any verification that he existed, much less died. Now if we are reading the fables in the bible, then yes the character Jesus died on the cross and with his death animal sacrifices were deleted.
Jesus's existence does not depend on Bible or its fables.
Histroy does not mention names of all the people born in the world; similarly Bible does not record all the events truthfully and correctly.
History begs to differ. Famous and people of importance have been recorded both in birth and in death. Even people of importance around the character Jesus purposive birth. Like Herod the Great or Caesar.
History recorded the rulers and the kings; Jesus was only a son of a carpenter*; history of those times did not consider him important enough.
*In Mark 6:3, Jesus is called a tekton (τέκτων in Greek), usually understood to mean carpenter. Matthew 13:55 says he was the son of a tekton.[Mk 6:3][Mt 13:55]:170
Jesus was supposed to be the King of Jews and a miracle worker. His life/death would have been recorded. With that said there exists little in the way of historical documentation for Jesus' life beyond the Biblical Gospels. The earliest so called witness would have been 40 plus years after the alleged death of Jesus. The lack of evidence makes it very difficult to discern actual historical facts behind the Christian stories that describe him.
If history fails or misses to record accounts of life of a person; that does not mean that the person did not exist at that time for sure. Does it?
No it does not. But surly the KING OF JEWS and a HALF GOD who healed the sick and banned demons would have been well documented. Wouldn't it?
Not documented by the history; otherwise you would have not said that Jesus did not exist.
These titles were later written by the anonymous scribes in the Bible; not necessarity part of the history.
Jesus did exist however; if the history did not record or failed to record or missed to record that does not matter. History does not claim to be perfect. Does it?
I caught up with ya.
This fellow is "on my list."
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