What can you say to someone who doesn't believe in anything? How do you tell them there is NO gray area?
I think it depends on how gullible they are. If they are very gullible, then tell them anything you want. If they are like me on the other hand, then they will require demonstrable evidence.
Of course, I think you are overlooking the bigger picture here. Most atheists in the western world already know about religious scriptures (yes, plural) and many have studied them in detail which is the cause of their lack of belief. They just dont find them to be credable.
I hear what your saying, but many things happen throughout the day that are unexplainable, and it isn't "just because" your existence is more than "just because" I mean you breathe air you can't see...
Blow some smoke. Hey presto! visible air!
Blow some more smoke, hey presto! invisible god!
Happens everyday. You never know when the big Dude is gonna hit you w/ that bolt from the blue. Suddenly, some druggie cleans up, and joins the flock. Everyday, somewhere, some lost sheep or prodigal son turns to God. Walks into a clinic run by a mission for food, lodging, medical, or mental help. Everyday, there is a missionary somewhere in the world, maybe putting their own lives on the line to help others. Would an atheist even bother? How many atheist organizations extend their help to others, regardless of belief? How can you jokers even go there?
you probably could do it, but it's gonna take a lot of Beer!!!!!!!!!!!! lmao
I doubt seriously a real atheist would even enter the conversation, or have a concept of what you are trying to explain. And by the time you get enough beer in them you'll be so drunk you will not know what your saying anyway!!!!!
It's all done with smoke and mirrors isn't it?
Why? Just because you believe it "isn't just because" doesn't make your opnion true. It could be JUST BECAUSE, no matter how rigidily you believe it isn't.
This argument has been debunked long long ago, and is the reasoning proposed by those who think on a linear level.
If you believe in nothing, that means you don't believe in anything..what about u? Are u nothing? Are u anything? Or just the gray area?
You're quite right, atheists don't "believe" in anything, IF "believe" means "trust that something exists without any proof".
Atheists celebrate the joy of being alive, the wonders of the natural world, the progress of science. All those things are so amazing, they don't feel the need to invent anything else.
Go ahead and create a strawman. I believe in something(my life is something). I just don't believe in your imaginary nonsense.
Now you are actually arguing with the strawman...how absurd.
Just because something happens that you cant explain does not mean it is unexplainable. I have never seen anything that I have not found a reasonable explanation for.
We cant see air, but we can measure it by many different means. We know it is made of around 80% nitrogen and 20% oxygen. We can see solid nitrogen and oxygen cant we? (yes we can)
Saying something really doesn't make much difference. Proof? Thousands of years of human interaction. It is actions the prove what is and is not. Make tangible the hidden things, the mysteries, the Spirit! How? Close the 'good book', step from the pulpit, stop handing out tracts or pulling gently by the hair to church, turn off the tele and really spend some quality time with Creator. Heck, even the Muslims do that --especially during Ramadan -28 days of fasting and prayer. What a novel idea.
I was tossed out on my ear for saying this, but here I go again:
"The real reason so many who once believed -and even those who claim to believe- doubt is because no one stepped forward to show them in all earnest. They talked over and over of what should be done or some other fearful condemnation. But when it comes to showing another faith in action, true mercy, true love -well, let's just say the Spirit has been replaced for speakeasy. Belief today is a symbol, a system, a social status and not a reality of righteousness (right thinking). If you truly want to convince the unbeliever, show them faith, don't tell them faith!
This is the proof/evidence they are seeking --same as the believing."
Even go one step further, if you follow the text. It says this: "how will we know Creator In Us; The Kingdom has come? You will know them by their books --err, their songs --err, their really intense conversations in internet forums --err, their snappy clothes --err. Hmm, how will you know them? By their fruit. Simple.
If you really, really traded in your robes of filth, for robes of righteousness, really, really believe the work done, without a doubt then: go and burn the books of death, take a long hot bath in incense or Bvlgari; Wash off the memory of the past, the ash of mourning yourself; anoint your head with oil to rid yourself of the rust; Put the robes on, a smile on your face and show them the joy of life. Simple.
Just have "it" "come on down, (as "its" real self, whatever that is)" tell us who "it" is. Provide proper ID (sumthin other than a bible, torah or a qur'an), perform a couple REAL miracles like Michael Rene did in "The Day the Earth Stood Still" oh, He turned off electricity on earth 'cept for emergency purposes, and with a single thought, make all us humans "perfect" like "itself"...oh I could go on and on, but if "it" could do that, I'd sit "it" down and have a long talk with it about all the friggin' screw ups it was responsible for!...and I might bitch slap "it" just to make a point!
Anyway, have "it" "come on down" and spin the wheel of reality for us...ok?
I'm waitin'! :
Just tell them. Tell them that's what the Bible says.
They're capable of understanding the concept and making a choice.
What's more, they'll see your strong witness instead of that wishy-washy gray area that keeps them in apathy.
Or do you mean: How do you get someone to ignore the gray area? Because that is what you would have to do to get them to believe in the nonsensical beliefs of any religion on this planet.
So how did someone convince you to ignore the gray area?
Why would you want to ignore the gray area? life is not just black and white. Bottom line is acknowledge and accept diversity. "it were not best that we should all think alike; it is difference of opinion that makes horse races".(Mark Twain)
Atheists have arrived at their world view using logic. If you can persuade them using logic, they will change their view.
Yes this is your answer right here. There is a lot of gray area, and you shouldn't ignore your gray areas. They inform you. If you fail to process the gray areas, you fail to achieve real understanding.
Whatever it is, your post is certainly not it.
“Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble.” – Joseph Campbell
If there is a God then why is there so much 'evil.'
"What can you say to someone who doesn't believe in anything?" What does it matter?
Providing proof would change their minds in a heartbeat, and most would become religious overnight.
Who would not want to have a god on their side?
Unfortunately there is no proof, and religion is a farce.
No you can't is the answer. And I wouldn't want to try too either. I can only give account for what I believe and it's up to them to weigh up for themselves what I have said.
Short of a Saul of Tarsus experience I'm don't know what it would take. I don't do miracles and I've never raised anyone from the dead. If I saw an angel I'd probably crap myself but the athiest might say "nah it's a trick of the light" or "perhaps I should leave the crazy cake".
I have doubted the existence God many times. But internal philosophical arguments convince me otherwise.
I would never try to convince any non-believer to have faith. It's all I can do to keep myself on the right path. I was never a model for any religion. A long long time ago in a far away land, I found myself in a position where I prayed for some supreme being to make me invisible. That day, there were no atheists on that field. Unfortunately, you can not place a non-believer in that situation. Keep yourself squared away and let the non-believers find their own guide.
Why even bother making people believe. Be the God that Jesus wanted you to become and hey presto, people may give credibility to you and want to be influenced by you. Until you do that, why would you want or expect people to believe you? Words are cheap, like scriptures. Actions speak much louder. When Christians understand this, they may have an influence.
The 'unexplainable' happens everyday. Doesn't mean God did it. Could mean you are being asked to expand your state of mind and your life experiences.
I understand Buddhism in our modern day has influenced more people to become spiritual. Not by their words but by their actions. Buddhism however is a way of life. It's not a set of beliefs. They find God within and not via an external source. Their teachings are empowering and virtuous.
Interesting also, if taking a survey people who have found a way of being more spiritual don't buy into religion.
Perhaps a more interesting question is: what would it take for you to STOP believing in your religion?
Why is there a despirate need to push your beliefs on someone else? If someone doesn't believe in something, that it! End of story! It's like saying if i like Lobster, you must like it too!
Is there a difference between personal tastes and impersonal factual claims?
People need belief if they have an absence of reason. An atheist, by definition, has come to a conclusion about reality based on the observable, proven facts available to them. So by extension, you can't make them 'believe' anything unless it's true.
It's a testimony to the arrogance of 'believers' in anything that they have no respect for any human being past or present who didn't believe the same thing as them. Whereas an atheist can happily respect everyone;
Don't believe = know.
And rightly so. Nature, and the observation of it, using science is not the issue, really. It is when science or religion decide that "IT" is the Truth and dismiss any other probabilities.
The greatest of logic, the most aggressive of science cannot ignore that this universe (the entire scope of nature) did not just "came into being from nothing". Granted religion deems it "The Man In The Sky", as many religions do, in an attempt to understand the totality of Creator. Ironically, the two prominent texts explicitly state that this entire universe came into being precisely how Alexander Friedman, the Russian, laid out "The Big Bang" theory. Here is the best part: following him was Edwin Hubble, and then --get this-- Georges Lemaitre, Belgian physicist and Roman Catholic priest !!! who coined the "Big Bang".
The theistic texts says "He Spoke".
The scientific text says it went "Bang".
Even more ironic is the same theory can be applied to evolution.
So, is it possible for a former theist to believe in Creator --without scientific modus operandi? Yes. It is equally possible for a theist to believe without religious modus operandi? Yes. Is it likely, given the present stasis of humanism? Absolutely Not!
As long as science and religion are using their techniques, the longer it is going to take humanity to "get it".
Hawking and the pope met and chatted about cosmology and physics.
The pope agreed with Hawking about everything and ended the conversation with a last disgusting comment (paraphrase)...but god was responsible for it all!
That is the zenith of religious arrogance based totally on abject ignorance!
There is a life force and from where does it come. From where did it originally come. And that life force is finite. Maybe it is the force of the Jedi. I do not know nor do I care what believers and non-believers think. I choose to believe that there is a supreme being from whom all life began. Take evolution as far back as you choose; life began somewhere. The power to take a breath, to reason, to experience emotion. I will continue to believe that there is a God until I convince myself otherwise.
See some of Lawrence Krauss on the BBC, he has a very good explanation with enough maths and peer reviewed data behind it to stretch to the moon and back.
Lawrence Krauss is a highly educated theorist, but a theorist none the less. He does not have a definitive answer but he does have the ability to logically argue his position. He gets excited about a curriculum at the University of Arizona that will study the Origin of Life. He's excited because maybe they will prove him right because he knows he hasn't proven anything. I'm excited too because I would also like a definitive answer. However, I doubt they will ever find the answer in my lifetime, or theirs. Krauss surrounds himself with intellectuals like Richard Dawkins who can have your head swimming after listening to him for 10 minutes. But Dawkins doesn't have a definitive answer either. More theories. I will maintain my position on a supreme being.
It would appear that you have a problem with understanding theories so you resort to fantasy for answers.
It would appear that some of us have a problem understanding that the people who don’t share our viewpoint may have insight and cognizance that we don’t possess. This CNN video clip deals with how an open mind provides more room for knowledge than does a closed mind.
http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/living … schulz.TED
Of course we believe we are right but why can’t we respect others whose choices and decisions are based on what they believe to be true. Those willing to accept the possibility they may be wrong display the most wisdom.
Are we to respect those who have been indoctrinated into a religion and who NEVER accept the possibility they may be wrong, despite the fact many other religions exist who have followers who NEVER accept the possibility they are wrong, despite our physical laws that show they can't be right?
Or, should I respect those who work hard diligently to understand the world around them using evidence and the scientific method, which DEMANDS the need for fallibility of any theory or experiment.
I choose the latter.
And I choose to show respect to both groups.
Perhaps we are talking about two different things, people vs. their belief systems. I attack the belief systems, not the people, despite being attacked personally and repeatedly by those of the first group. I don't lower myself to their level of disrespect as I'm sure you don't either.
I never attack another person’s belief system. I can accept another’s beliefs as what works best for them. I find sharing how I selected my own ethics is better then telling others what I think is wrong with theirs. What works for me, may not work for anyone else. Should I presume that I’m in a better position to know what another person should believe? All humans, including you and me, share one odd characteristic not found in other species. When it comes to God, we are all believers. Most say they believe God exists. Others say they believe a god does not exist. And the rest say they believe god may exist. In the absence of any tangible proof, each of us has built our own unique belief system about "god" based upon faith, experience and intuition. Which of us have gotten it right and which of us have not? And, who among us is qualified to judge? .
I agree, only theory.
Theory is a lot different to myths.
Theories may be wrong, and if so work continues in the hope of definitive answers that will sit across all scientific disciplines.
Myths have no theories, only faith in a much altered myth written by a few goat herders to control the illiterate superstitious people of that time.
Also, the story itself is ridiculous. Who or what made this psychotic "god" is easy enough to trace back to the sun god ra.
The god of the bible and quoran are both basket cases full of childish vengeful spite.
A god who is so small he could walk under the carpet and not leave a bump.
Why worship a "pretend" little god who is a nut job?
A theory is not the same as a myth, but there isn't much truth separating the two until proven or disproven. My theory is that life began somewhere. I do not know from where life began, but there is life. Again, I choose to believe there is a supreme being until proven otherwise. Jews do not believe that God has made his presence on earth yet. Most Christians believe the son of God walked in the mid-East. There are Christians known as Latter Day Saints that believe that Christ walked in the Americas. There are those that believe in Mohammed and his mountain. No one knows if they are worshipping different gods or the same god. Believe what you wish and you won't get an argument out of me. C'est la vie.
"Can you change an Atheist to believe?"
I can't. But time and experiences will.
Certainly a profession of belief from those seeing the grim reaper coming and wanting to avoid him is common. Actual belief? Probably not.
No, time and knowledge will ensure that they won't be worshiping Santa or any other mythical characters.
...droppin' by to say hi...hey earnest!
...what's wrong with Santa?....i luv the big guy!...brings a smile to my face every year
I love the Santa myth as well, great to see the faces light up.
I don't worship him though.
Which reminds me, I better find a couple of bucks for the tooth fairy, someone just lost a tooth.
The guy is a loser. Not one ounce of common sense.
Beelzedad, It appears you want to discuss semantics to quash my statements. In regards to theories, the scientific explanation is that a theory is built upon one or more hypotheses, and upon evidence. The word "built" is essential, for a theory contains reasoning and logical connections based on the hypotheses and evidence. I wrote that "life began somewhere". If you choose to believe that life didn't begin somewhere, then call it an assertion. If you choose to believe that I do not understand theories, then hang on to your beliefs. I do choose to believe that life began somewhere. If you want to call that a fantasy, feel free to do so. And if someone chooses to believe that I lack common sense because I do not believe as they do then let them believe as they will. I strongly believe that I'll just amble back to the bar and fix me another scotch and Drambuie since you have the answers to all of life's questions.
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