There is a lot of wrong things happening in the name of Religion. Recently while talking about the recent blasts in India I was shocked to see one of my friends talking with so much of hatred for Muslims and Pakistanis. He said if he had the power he would put all Muslims in a frying pan, fry them and then throw to dogs. Another thing he said he would do is make cuts on all terrorists body and apply chilli powder and salt. Just because there are a few people who do not fear God and do wrong things should the entire catagory be considered bad?
Well, I don't think so.
No. Unfortunately when a few perform violent acts and claim they do so to advance God's will, they condemn their religion in the eyes of those that do not know, believe, or understand their religion. Fairly or not they bring the hatred upon themselves. The Muslim community must do more to condemn those act of violence, and the people that perpetrate them. They must do more to educate the extremists that practice their religion and the non-believers. They must do more to teach tolerance of others. I don't think the Muslim community is doing enough of these things.
I'd have to agree with Poppa's statement above.
But then on the same note Buddhist, Hindu, Christian or leaders of any religion have to do more to condemn hatred or illegal wars against others.
The war in Iraq for sure.
I don't think NATO troops should be in Afghanistan either. Afghanistan is not a UN peace keeping mission. NATO is the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. Afghanistan is a long way from the North Atlantic. Besides we seem to have forgotten the reason why NATO troops are in Afghanistan, to find Bin Laden. NATO troops were not originally sent there to take one side of a civil war, or at least that is what most of us thought to start with. The Taliban said they would hand over Bin Laden if the US could prove he did 9/11 but the US still hasn't proven it to a lot of Americans or the world, let alone the Taliban. Just do a Google search for false flag operations or phony bin laden tape.
Yes, the Muslim community must do more to condemn those act of violence, and the people that perpetrate them. During 9/11 we saw some countries celebrating.
This thread has run through many themes since this remark was made, but I feel it should be questioned.
ngureco - please enlarge on what you saw? Probably some footage on TV of some people celebrating. But not countries. Countries celebrate with national holidays and public events. I'm not aware this happened anywhere in the world. Statements like yours do nothing to heal differences.
Still it has not been proved that who is behind 9/11 attacks.Some believe that it is zionist lobby who is deeply rooted in America.
Muslims have condemned this attack.
Who are those "few" who are performing these acts of violence? Are they Muslims? Who knows that who are behind these terror attacks? Government has banned SIMI for its alleged involvement in terror attacks without an iota of evidence. Why the government is not banning Hindutva outfits like Bajrangdal who are openly committing the acts of terror in Assam and other states. Why it doesn’t pay any heed to the terror activities of Raj Thackery against north Indians.
Innocent Muslims are being harassed by the police. They don’t have guts to arrest the real culprits. Media is creating sensation and spreading wrong things.
You say Muslims should condemn terrorism. They very term Islam means peace. Quran condemns all kinds of wrongdoings. But the people who are committing these crimes are not Muslims. They are doing this to create communal tension and strengthen their Hindu vote bank
Different people with their opinions but would that really solve the problem?there is no need to hate any religion...
It takes two hands to clap.The hatred is mutual.Fanatics exits in all religions.
As a Muslim I thank you for your last statement.
There are many Muslims who do not understand their own religion.
Islam is defined as total submission to Allah.
A Muslim is a person who submits to Allah.
To kill an innocent person regardless of their belief is totally against Islam.
Allah created ALL of us...with love. He loves us ALL. He may not like what we do but that does not mean that he does not love us. Many Muslims do not understand that.
The first and most important pillar of Islam is belief. If that 'belief' is wrong then a person can be easliy misguided...as is happening...
Before I sign off I should make it clear that I am not a scholar. The limited knowledge of Islam I possess is not worthy of debate. I know nothing of reality.
Thank you for taking the time to read what I have written.
Why? Because there wouldn't be any wars if we all smiled...A journey of 1000 miles starts with one step...(or one smile?)
Media and state machinery are spreading hate against Muslims. They are poisoning people’s minds. People believe all they see in TV and newspapers and all that come from police sources.
you are the one who has brain to think,who doesnt believe anything blindly
Your thoughts are right. But the the problem with simple minded muslims is that, they are unable to oppose the fanaticdeeds of their religious leaders.The grip is so high there, unlike in other communities. That sounds as support to terrorist acts by these common people also.The common muslims should rise their voince against the unethical calls by their leaders.
A positive signal has been sounded now and then by some muslim organisations. Recently, a muslim convention, (perhaps held in Hyderabad)Adopteed a resolution against terrorist acts. In Kashmir, people are participating in elections discarding the boycott call by JKLF.
Ordinery people are Bothered by their daily livelyhood problems. Ambitious people like Dawood Ibrahim have time and money to play such hazards.I have read travellers' reports wherein it is said that people in Pakisthan love Indians, Indian art and Music, films, etc.
But brain washing doesn't allow them to remain so simple as they are. Here lies the problem and seeds of hatred.
Yes, you are right my dear, there are black sheeps in every community, it does not imply that the whole community is of black sheeps. To eradicate these kind of problems we have to touch the root cause of the problems. For indepth details about the recent blasts you can click on the following.
BrassTacks Situation and Intelligence Reports, Political and Security assessments and analysis on complex global security issues are taken as benchmark by governments, media, think tanks, policy makers and corporate environments.
I was able to open the link by just going to the home page
A lot of it is in the Pakistani language but I found this video in English concerning the Mumbai attack.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid … &hl=en
I watched about 15 minutes of it. At minute 14:26 of the video it says "Eight men arrested by Indian authorities and among them British men also" Associated Press. I heard this before so I did a search for 'British men arrested in Mumbai attack' and came up with this.
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&c … &meta=
What the long video is saying is that the Mumbai attack was another false flag operation trying to blame someone else. I'm not saying this is true at this time but I might have to come back to this video to watch the whole thing. Apparently the British men were of Pakistani descent.
Mike- Let bygones be bygones. Mumbai attack was a tragedy which will take time to get over. There are some governments which try to keep there own common people from knowing the whole truth and this particular video seems to be pointing in the same direction. There is an overwhelming evidence(which is accepted world wide) and this weak video would only convince those who want to believe it(irrespective of whether that is the whole truth or not). Anyway you are an open minded person and hopefully will evaluate from multiple sources before coming to any conclusions.
Thank you for this kindness Make Money, I will take a look.
Of course, some hardcore religion minded heads like above need something to burst their hatred on, after such instances, which can never be justified as whole religion is never responsible for such acts
I Strongly feel... Muslim community is doing more harm to them than others by allowing such religious extremism.
Their Scholars and religious preachers should strongly condemn such acts (some have done that too...but thats not effective as yet it seems)or take some iron clad steps to prevent such acts & prevent such hatred emerging for them (more than before, at least, in various regions)
Tying TNT around waist and detonating it, at will, anywhere , killing innocents in between can never be preached by any religion.
May God help all. Peace!
Zealots seem to exist in all the major religions.
They all dont take the shield of something named "JIHAD" to become suicide bombers, attack and kill innocents in their quest to enforce or show something.
In anyway all those who resort to violence to enforce something on others are one and the same, be it from any religion.
This couldnt be a solution.To root out all for what muslims are blamed for,we have to
eradicate the real causes.Hatred gives birth to hatred.The current blasts in India and Pakistan is a condemnable sad hap.
If a person is speaking of killing a whole nation / community he is a fascist. Those are words of fascism.
Governments need enemies to justify themselves and they try to put hate inside people.
I have to agree with you. Even I do not support such a behaviour or talk even to an enemy. Hatred only breeds hatred.
Fanatics of nearly all religions are guilty of sewing the seeds of hatred. Recently the Hindus have been persecuting Christians in India, telling them to convert or die.
The Taliban commits all kinds of atrocities against anyone who opposes them and denies all civilized rights to women. And they were the ones who destroyed the thoudsands of years old giant Buddhist Bamyan sculptures several years ago. They hardly deserve to call themselves a civilization. Fanatical Jews steal the land from Palestinians. Fanatical Evangelical Christians kill abortion doctors in the U.S. And so forth. All the religious extremists--Catholics, Muslims, Evangelical Protestants seem to be preoccupied with strict sexual rules on virginity, homosexuality, etc. I guess they do good, but I wonder whether the good outweighs the misery and divisiveness they cause in the world.
Mike, I think you should exclude Buddhists from the list. To the best of my knowledge they never fought a religious war. Not that sure about Hinduists, but strongly suspect they didn't either...
In historical times Hindus did...remember Arjuna?
If you are referring to the MahaBharatha War it was a War of Good (Pandavas) Vs Evil (Kauravas).
Yes, it was not in the name of religion. If ever there was a religion involved it was the religion of Humanity. There is no mention of Religion in Mahabharat.
War by itself may not be wrong. But the reason for it should be right. The pandavas were right at that time to fight and incidentally kauravas were cousins so it wasn't a religious war between different cultures or religions. Now coming to this debate the then Taliban were totally destroying the civilian society, ancient bamiyan budha's and then 911 they deserved to be punished. But then came Iraq and it was not justified based on wrong WMD information to attack them.
religion/spirituality...different beliefs in what "is" right or what one wants...maybe not in the same as today's religions against "pure" Truth of spirituality...I guess its debatable.
Interesting. I guess I should go back and re-read from this point of view
Correct the Mahabharata is a masterpiece in poetry and was write by the sage Vyasa.Its a war which symbolises good over evil.Krishna took the side of the Pandavas and was the charioter as he was not allowed to fight,that was the condition.In this war Arjuna is faced with a dilemma over whether to fight or not as the opponents the Kauravas were his cousins he had grown up with.
Here Krishna tells him all has been destined including this war.He is a Shatriya or a warrior and must carry out his part which he is made for.Similarly we all have a part to play and must play it or carry out our destiny
Not exactly, Arjuna was one of the Pandavas who had to fight with Gauravas for their rights. Mahabharat is not about religious war, can be identified as a war between relatives of same religion - hinduism
There were ( I don't think there still are) many militant Buddhist sects in Japan. And they certainly engaged in wars. For pay in some cases. They were one of the reasons the Samurai caste came about - and it became law that only Samurai might carry weapons.
Yeah, absolutely. I am not trying to imply Buddhists didn't have wars and fights - they obviously did and do. My point was though that they were not fighting "in the name of religion"
I think you are correct. I do not know of any wars started by buddhists to "spread the word."
This does seem to be a purely christian/islamic thing.
Quite honestly, when you look at the doctrines they propose, the whole idea of a religious war is ridiculous.
But - I thank God for them. Without these people, I would have never seen the light.......
Although, I think their influence was spreading, and this caused wars to be declared upon them, so maybe that could be considered a religious war?
That is nonsense Mark.
Sri Lanka is a war between the Hindu minority and the Buddhist majority that has killed hundreds of thousands.
Or from this site http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions … /war.shtml
That is what I have been trying to say all along. The doctrines of all the major religions do not condone war. And when you look at just about all the wars through out history you will find that the root cause is over land or resources. People corrupt the doctrines.
I knew I could count on you to set me straight Mike.
So, are there any religions that have not gone to war to collect more land or resources?
I doubt it. But it's not the religions, it's the people. Not even atheists, example being Communist Russia.
Mike, after following your link and seeing that they count war in Chechnya as religious, I don't believe any single word from that site, sorry.
I can assure you that from the Russian side religious propaganda to support this war was non-existent. It was the war for independence from one side, and the war to keep the borders intact from the other side, and of course the underlying reason was oil...
No Religion supports such a cause. But Man who twists what is written in the religious books according to his whims and fancies does.
I totally agree with you Misha.
The Russia/Chechnya wars are over independence or land or resources. The same way Sri Lanka is over independence or land. Or the same way Northern Ireland is over independence or land. Or the same way Kashmir is over independence or land. All these wars sighted on both web sites can be broken down to disputes over land or resources.
Organized religion is getting a bad name where it shouldn't be. By these two web sites as well. I used these two web sites because they didn't leave any organized religion out.
I'll say it again, it's not the organized religions that are the problem. It's people fighting over land or resources. And people corrupting the doctrines.
Ummm, "good and evil" are definitely religious terms.
Non religious wars are fought for resources or territory - something material. Wars fought solely to defeat evil are religious.
Sorry to interrupt.In a nutshell, the Mahabaratha war was fought after a king lost his kindom ,riches and even his wife to another king who incidently happen to be his brother(His father's brother's son) in a game of dice. In a bid to claim back his losses the defeated king declared war on his brother and that war was called The Mahabaratha war.
Now that's much more in line with what I remember it to be Thanks for clarifying this Anitha, and I would not call it religious then.
I was coming to explain it...you beat me! Good job, Anitha
**I edited my previous comment here. Dont wish to hurt anyone.**The Baratha war isnt the World War.
Yes it is depressing. But atheists have a much much higher body count rate.
Care to back that up with some facts? Although, I am not sure the point of that. More people were killed without invoking the name of god than were....
Nice. You must be a christian. Guess that makes you right. I will start believing immediately.
I definitely agree to you that underlying cause for most of the wars is not a religion. However, you can't really decline that in many cases religion is used to organize the ignorant masses to support the war.
Nope Mike, we were having the war for peace against evil capitalists. Not Christians, Muslims, and the likes - against evil capitalists
Wait. Godless former USSR? Where on earth did you get that from? o_O
Also; atheism is just another form of Christianity/Judaism: they believe God exists, and they choose not to worship him. And while most will argue that this isn't the case, it's the cold, hard truth. And that is why I'm Apathetic Agnostic. ^_^
Kika - This is as poor a mis-representation of atheism as Mike's comments on Russia.
I am an atheist.
I do not believe there is a god.
No cold hard truth in what you said.
Unless you were joking? Which I think you were, in which case you will find this useful when talking to many of the more aggresive chistians.
Many of them fail to spot it
Quotes from this site under The Soviet Union
"Marxism-Leninism has consistently advocated the control, suppression, and, ultimately, the elimination of religious beliefs. Within about a year of the revolution the state expropriated all church property, including the churches themselves, and in the period from 1922 to 1926, 28 Russian Orthodox bishops and more than 1,200 priests were killed (a much greater number was subjected to persecution).
In the 1920s and 1930s, such organizations as the League of the Militant Godless ridiculed all religions and harassed believers. Atheism was propagated through schools, communist organizations (such as the Young Pioneer Organization), and the media.
Most seminaries were closed, publication of religious writing was banned. The Russian Orthodox Church, which had 54,000 parishes before World War I, was reduced to 500 by 1940. Although the great majority of Russia was Christian, according to the CIA Factbook, only 17 to 22 percent of the population is now Christian."
The atheist war for peace sure killed a pile of people.
and the crusaders have killed much, much more.
LOL Mike, let's separate "war for peace", which was directed outside, from house cleaning. Pile of people was killed in house cleaning. It happens in every single country communist come to power, be it Czechoslovakia or Cambodia. May happen here, too, btw.
I fail to see how this civil war was a religious war. The rhetoric was pretty close to the one of your current democrats - rich people exploit us, let's get rid of them. And yes, rich people included priests, too - but not because they were religious, rather because they were more or less rich and served the interests of rich people...
Misha you don't seem to realize that what you just said is a direct threat to the security of the country that is allowing you to live there. I know you are a Russian immigrant. I wonder what Homeland Security would have to say about your threat.
Call it war for peace or house cleaning it does not matter. The fact of the matter is that there were 61,911,000 victims of utopian empowered atheist Soviet Russia from 1917 to 1987. That's over 61 million people dead in just 70 years. Marxist governments overall killed about 95,200,000 in the 20th century.
And Sandra those numbers probably have not been reached in 5 to 10 centuries of so called religious conflicts.
Back to your threat Misha.
Are you in the US as a communist anarchist Misha?
Or are you a member of the the League of the Militant Godless Misha?
Or are you a member of the Young Pioneer Organization Misha?
I am going to tell you right now Misha that I do not take this threat lightly considering the amount of victims by atheists that are sighted in the above web site.
I will be thinking of your threat from here on any time I see you attack a Christian thread in this forum. I say Christian because that's who you atheists seem to like to throw most of your attacks at.
Your a sick jerk, if you knew your bible well then you would know that we are not supposed to collect taxes from foreighners.
You're so full of hate disgust for anyone unlike yourself. I think your a threat to humanity.
Go peddle your paranoid crap somewhere else moron.
I dare you to call Dept of Homeland Security about Misha while your at it for allegedly being part of some communist plot (which is what your implying).
They won't grab Misha, if they grabbed anyone it would probably be you because of your extremist background and false report on Misha.
Don't come back here whining if they take a stopwatch and time you while they waterboard you in a make shift prison somewhere.
Are you that stupid to go and report someone falsely?
What in hell do you think they will do to you once they figure out Misha is nothing to worry about and you are a liar.
At the minimum you will be charged with something (that will go on your record) for "crying wolf", if they don't arrest you/monitor you and possibly even torture you on top of that.
I am dead serious when I say this.
You are a liar, and a cruel liar to threaten Misha in such a way.
Because we both know you won't do what you threaten, which in and of itself reveals the particularly cowardly form of your cruelty.
The threat is greater than the execution, you are a rad trad and you know this even if you 'll never admit it.
Go back to beating your wife or dominating your children.
Peddle your vicious and cruel ideological hatred elsewhere.
Well I forgive you Zarm seeing you don't know what to heck you are talking about.
This is what we were talking about, Misha and I.
This was Misha's reply, as if that's the plan for the future too.
Quite the house cleaning with 95,200,000 victims by these Marxist atheist pukes. Previously Misha used the term 'house cleaning' for these 95.2 MILLION victims. Those victims were from all religions but mostly Christians.
It doesn't matter where you go on the net these days there's an atheist, possibly communist group attacking Christianity and all forms of religions. I am keeping track of them and the numbers are growing. Some are actually calling for a communist revolution in the US. Expect another round of McCarthyism in the near future.
Personally I think HubPages should be reporting some of these outrages posts to Homeland Security themselves.
And Zarm we've already been through the discussion that Fr. Gruner's Fatima Center has nothing to do with the Legion of Christ.
I think you are jumping to conclusions assuming that because someone is an atheist they must want to hurt someone who is not. It is not true.
Likewise, it is unfair for an atheist to assume that because people have killed in the name of Christ, that all Christains are bad. It just isn't true.
It is also unfair to assume that people want to be saved or that these things that have happened in the past with regards to non-religions and religions were not meant to happen; or that we are not already perfectly imperfect with our without the need for God.
With or without God, these things happen and that is a true statement, they happen on both sides of the deck so believing or not believing doesn't make any difference. God has no place in the argument in favor of genicide or war.
Who said, "the biggest folly of man was in believing there is life after death?"
Mike, there is no reason to attack and threaten Misha for his usage of adjectives.
He doesn't like communists anymore than either of us do.
When he said "house cleaning", that is how the communists that he was raised with looked at it. That doesn't mean he likes communism though. Far from it.
Communism has nothing new to offer (at least not the kind practiced by Lenin/Stalin/Mao). Unless it could somehow happen without thought reform, religious persecution, and totalitarian state dogma, communism will never be viable as a political solution to anything.
Communism is a clumsy, red-taped, centralized, authoritarian, totalitarian, paranoid, pile of complete garbage.
I think Misha actually agrees with me when I say this.
I didn't say anything about 2003 Kerry.
This site has the numbers. "61,911,000 Victims: Utopianism Empowered 1917 to 1987"
Kerry there's a hand full of people in here that like to blame everything on organized religion.
So I'll repeat myself.
And that's why I showed that people that do not belong to an organized religion can be just as bad as religious fanatics or worse.
That's all I'm trying to say. You can't deny those facts.
You can't call yourself an innocent group just because you call yourself an atheist (or used to call yourself one yesterday).
Mike - I do not blame everything on organized religion. What I usually say is that christians, who invariably claim to be "better" than every one else because of their "divine" calling, rarely seem to behave in the way their book tells them to.
In fact, often the opposite. This would be one of the reasons I think the bible is garbage. You are behaving in exactly the same fashion right now. Spreading hate and exaggerated claims about a group that is not as "good" as your group.
Although - I was not aware I was in a group. We do seem to be making progress in that you are not calling atheism a religion
I can certainly agree that people who do not belong to an organized religion can be just as bad as you people. And as you correctly point out, they often join some other group that behaves like a religion.
I have equal disdain for the Nazis, Communists, Republicans, Democrats, Muslims, Darwinists, or whichever other group you care to name that sets themselves up as better than anyone else in the same way religions do.
Don't you think it about time we got rid of these groups?
Fair enough. But my point was that people in the Soviet Union were persecuted regardless of religious beliefs and the persecution was worse (and remains worse) for certain ETHNIC groups, who happen to be mainly Jews and Muslims.
I skimmed quickly, but I didn't see anything about 62 million CHRISTIANS being murdered for their beliefs. Just 62 million (or more) Soviets being murdered/executed, starved, killed in wars, and left to rot in prison/Siberia. That figure would have included Christians, Jews, Muslims, athiests, and people from various native Siberian animist religions. Again, not singling out any specific religion, but rather "class enemies" and dissenters, real and imagined.
I'm not actually going to argue with that. Any time people believe in their own rightness so passionately that they are willing to dehumanize and kill those who disagree, the results are going to be gory. You see this effect most frequently with organized religion, but the Soviet Union is a prime example of a political ideology run amok, and you see ethnic and tribal differences (unrelated to religion) resulting in the same violence in Rwanda in the 90's, Georgia/Ossetia now, and in countless other places throughout history.
I agree with this.
Wow, interesting. I didn't know that. Thank you for enlightening me.
Definitely not to this scale Sandra.
Besides the original idea of the crusades was just to secure a safe passage from Europe to the Holy Land for pilgrims, that's all. "Bandits abounded, and pilgrims were routinely slaughtered, sometimes by the hundreds, as they attempted to make the journey from the coastline at Jaffa into the Holy Land." There were bad leaders on both sides. Such bad leaders from Europe were William the Conqueror (King of England), Hugues de Payens, Godfrey de Saint-Omer and the Knights Templar (the predecessors of Freemasonry).
Ok then what I meant to say was people in favor of religion have killed many, many, many, many more.
This is your cult's doctrine, the crusades are universally acknowledged to be good amongst rad trad cultists.
Do you guys think Torquemada was good too (like my former group)?
I bet so.
Mike. Chill out. He's only stating an opinion, a right every (and I mean EVERY) American citizen has. If he feels our country may be heading in this direction, it is his right to feel that way. While it is your right to be enraged about his opinion, you have to remember that opinions are, indeed, like buttholes; everyone's got one.
I personally think Misha's got a good point. Look at where our country is headed and tell me nothing bad is going to happen whatsoever.
Noting all his previous attacks on Christians in this forum it wasn't an opinion, it was a threat. All these attacks on Christians by him, Mark and other atheists in this forum and everywhere across the net just pushes more people to the McCainiac side. If it continues it just might do the same to me too. That's self defense which is acceptable in Christianity.
Mike, I apologize now if this sounds condescending, but have you ever heard the phrase, "take everything with a grain of salt"? Try seeing things through others' eyes instead of closing your mind to their opinions and views. Who knows? You might learn a thing or two about them.
LOL Thanks Kika! Who is following whom though
Mike, the next logical step for you will be to report me to Homeland Security. And they will no doubt come, handcuff me and fly to Guantanamo Bay. Or another concentration camp they already have a plenty on the mainland, too.
You don't know this, but I do - this is exactly how house cleaning in communist countries was done...
Homeland security = KGB
Who said I was following you? I posted in here a while ago, and I keep checking in once in a while to see if anyone's said anything worth commenting on. And sometimes it's nice to voice my own ideals once in a while.
Oh, plus, I don't like seeing my friends get bashed.
Mike, honestly, I think you ought to take a step back and re-evaluate the situation. Is it really worth it to go to such extremes over an opinion? What if I were to say I believed true, idealistic Communism would be the best for the world? It would never happen, not in a million years, but the idea of pure Utopia where everyone was equal and no one had to worry about social status and wealth sounds like Heaven on earth to me. Are you going to condemn me for that as well?
What happened to the "Hatred for Muslims" thread...I thought this was it?
It's still hatred, but now for communist atheists child molesters, though
Moving off the topic is nothing new here, especially in Religion forum in HP
Y'know, Misha, you don't make it easy to defend you & your/others' opinions. Actually, you're making it hard for me. >.<
But you are losing your cool
I don't think they will come right away, not everything is ready yet - but eventually there is a good chance they will. However, I think I will not live in the USA by that time already
Russia does that once and it is worse than all the ones who have done it and continue to do it. Yet you figure that Christains should be forgiven and atheist should not?
Do you think it is better that someone kill in the name of God or someone who killed in thier own name?
Don't you know that voting for McPalin is likey to start a new war?
But you want that don't you and you will say it is God's will not yours.
Think again. You don't know God! How does it feel huh? You don't know God.
You worship Satan and don't even know it.
How does that feel?
Oh wait you have no feelings so nothing I say can hurt you right because God is going to smite me because of what I said right?
You nerve is uncanny. Do you really think God will forgive you acting as though you do not have a choice when it comes to war or not? Preach all you want about free will you want because your free will is telling me that you want to kill because deep down inside your a killer, your a revenge seeker.
You so wrong! Satan worshiper.
Sandra, hun. ilu and all, so please calm down? I feel really bad when people I like get all upset. Well, okay, let me rephrase that: I feel really bad when people get upset, period. I don't like to see people fighting and nipping at one another's throats. I may just be a huge softie, but still. Can't we talk without incurring others' wraths (this goes for everybody)?
It still is not guaranteed to happen here, but you better be prepared, cause I think chances are better than even it will...
Criminals should be punished; showing hatred to their community is unfair
I agree with you. It is unfair to show Hatred to the entire Religion.
Yeah I agree too.
And that's why I showed that people that do not belong to an organized religion can be just as bad as religious fanatics or worse.
For example when talking about the holocaust we should be asking which one.
The Armenian holocaust?
The Ugandan holocaust?
The Jewish holocaust?
Or the big one. The Christian holocaust done by Russian atheists with just about 62 million victims. That's more than 10 times the amount of victims than any other holocaust.
I'm certainly glad you atheists have finally denounced your barbaric atheist faith.
Where are you getting that number and what makes you think it was religious persecution rather than class-based persecution? The Soviets killed their own people indiscriminately of religion; in fact, Christians had it better, in general, than Jews and Muslims because Russians are extremely racist and anti-Semitic, and no amount of Communist indoctrination could kill that. It persists to this day, and is arguably getting even stronger thanks to Afghanistan, Chechnya, and other disputes with "blacks."
I lived in Russia (St. Petersburg) in 2003 with a group of American students that included one African American, one native Hawaiian, one Jew, one Indian-American, and about 15 whites. The weekend after the theater hostage crisis, the Indian man and the Hawaiian woman were stopped by the police 8 and 4 times respectively, in 2 days. Not a single one of the whites was stopped. My Central Asian husband had a similar experience on his lone trip to Moscow in 1998. The black man was never particularly bothered by the police, but he used to literally stop traffic just walking down the street. White power slogans and swastikas conspicuously festoon many metro stations. The Soviets didn't approve of Christians, but for all their high-falutin' rhetoric about worker equality, they disapproved of Jews and "blacks" more, and kulaks and other "class enemies" (athiest, Christian, Jewish, or Muslim) most of all.
MakeMoney is a cultist kerryg. He is associated with the same type (not the exact group) of people I once was.
His sources may vary but his belief in what he is saying (atheism somehow being the cause of communist persecution in Russia) is founded on ideological ground.
There is no evidence of any sort whatsoever that you can present to him that would change his mind on most things, and I speak from experience on this point (being a former cultist myself)t.
If you want to learn more about his type of group (extremist radical traditionalist catholic cults) here is a link to the SLPC Intelligence brief on them (in general).
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelrep … sp?aid=719
My former group is not mentioned in these briefs, but as an ex-member I hope to write up and successfully submit something for the SLPC on my former group one day (it may come in handy for law enforcement who deal with extremist groups).
Long time no see Zarm. Did you have to drop out of school? I hope not, you might learn something.
Atheism was the cause of Christian persecution in Communist Russia. Just do a Google search for 'atheist marxism'. You can choose to deny it if you want.
I don't have anything against some Jews like the web site you posted Zarm. In fact if you do a Google search for 'jews against zionism' you'll find all kinds of web sites put up by Jewish organizations that oppose the state of Israel.
I don't argue with people such as yourself, because I know that in the end it doesn't matter.
You will threaten people (like you did Misha), you will be cruel, you will cajole, and will not listen to the voice of your own reason.
Just proving my point about domestic violence and the typical attitude in extremist Fatima cults. I am a 26 year old MAN and I have been just accepted to a community college (as of October 2nd), which makes your remarks all the more pathetic.
There is a saying that from the Great Gatsby that "The best revenge is to succeed". I will succeed, and once I am well established with roots I will make sure I coordinate a systematic effort at bringing the utter hatred that people like Fr. Feeny and Fr. Gruner preach to the light of day where the average person can see it for what it is (including the average Catholic who needs to be better informed).
If you were a real man you would address me as a man, and not a "boy" which you did, thus inadvertently revealing certain things about you.
Your so out of touch with reality that it is pitiable.
Except that I don't pity people such as yourself, there is no real reason to.
I have learned in a very traumatic environment that pitying people who are weak and manipulative is itself a weakness, which can only be broken by forgiving people to the greatest extent possible given the hard fact one cannot expect an apology.
That is where you and I differ.
I won't fully forgive those movements in the RCC for what they have done (including the Legion of Christ), because those kinds of people (and Fr. Gruner's kind of followers) never apologize for what they do. As a result I can only forgive them so far, and what is unforgiven is filled with hatred and a resolve to stand against that which is corrupt and full of disease. What is not filled with hatred is filled with the understanding and forgiveness that they too are human and meant well at times. Retaining some hatred and disgust for what happened to me is emotionally key to me being able to combat these kinds of groups from an information standpoint. I can, and I will.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions, and there are plenty of them in those groups but they do not make the environment any less toxic or vile. Instead, they make it all the more "sincerely deluded".
You are a man, but you are also a coward.
No man who was not cruel would threaten someone like Misha in the way that you have done (threatening to call Dept. Of Homeland Security), and I solemnly and strongly condemn you for that gravely immoral action.
Misha, you are my friend, but atheism is not the disbelief of god, it is the acknowledgement of him and the choice not to believe in him (I suppose that's still disbelief, but you're still acknowledging he exists). Agnosticism is the disbelief of god. I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything, I'm only telling you what I know of religions and beliefs. If you believe otherwise, that is your right and choice and I won't tell you you're wrong for believing it. I'm only telling you what I know. Sorry if I seemed rude.
Maybe you should just say you're Agnostic like me? Makes everything so much easier.
A lot of people do not like to call themselves agnostic because it suggests (to some) that they are incapable of making up their own minds. 'Atheist' has a few meanings, from someone who doesn't believe in god and basically doesn't give it a second thought, to someone who doesn't believe in god and feels the need to enlist others in his/her unbelief. To say that an atheist believes in but denies the existence of god is to display misunderstanding of the language. Atheists do not believe in god.
Personally, because too many people take 'atheist' personally, I prefer to describe myself as rationalist. But then again, I've met many atheists who are far from rational. Atheism is a broad '''church'''
Is that supposed to be directed at me?
If it is, I can tell you that you are completely wrong.
I acknowledge no god.
How on earth can you acknowledge that there is a god, yet choose not to believe in him/her ?
Agnosticism is what?
I think we are on the same page belief wise, but..........
what could you call a person who says, "I don't beleive in your god"? You said you don't believe in a personal god, or that god exist.
that you are neither athiest or agnostic...I am like that too, did my own study, came across things that I have no explaination for, see things and have done things that I cannot explain...whatever you are I think I am too, but I am not an athiest and I am not agnostic and I am not a christian...not a muslim, not a buddhist, or Kabalist or Judahist or anything of that sort...
does that make me a humanitarian?
OK, I am officuially no longer an atheist
I am now a rational, mystic, humanitarian.
This is major. Now what we gonna do? No resident atheist. Who these christians gonna fight. This is like a pole shift. Say it ain't so. Say it ain't so. Have you thought this thing thru? It is so easy to say 'I am an atheist'. How easy is it gonna be to have to say, 'I am a rational, mystic, humanitarian', over and over. Who can even make you a target with handle like that? Are you sure about this? Is there even a conversion ceremony for something like this?
How about child molesting Mark?
I think you misdirected your post, I really never categorized myself - while Mark definitely positions himself as an atheist.
As for me - I don't bother, any label does not reflect the reality in all detail. I definitely do think we are interconnected on some higher conscious level, and it definitely has nothing to do with an old guy in a white robe cooking sinners for eternal dinner
You saw that one?
Child molesting, women beating, dolphin hating, hypocritical, radical, mystical, humanitarian rationalist?
God did I say humanitarian? What I meant was human-esque, or wait human-ish, no...human-ist. Darn it, I mean human.
Dolphin hater! I hate them too, got a bunch of them captive in my house and on the walls cause they are such awful creatures.
"I agree with you. It is unfair to show Hatred to the entire Religion."
"Yeah I agree too."
"I'm certainly glad you atheists have finally denounced your barbaric atheist faith."
Yada, yada, yada, how many witches and pagans did the Catholic Church torture, burn and otherwise murder and enslave. You christians always got problem with someone - right. Otherwise how would be any better, which is your salvation.
As if anybody was arguing with you that people kill each other for a number of real and imaginary reasons.
Not sure why you still think that the deal in Russia was between atheists and Christians, when it was between poor and rich, at least this is how it was presented to the masses. When that thing started, almost all of the Russian Empire was Christian, with the exception of Central Asia, part of the Caucasus, and Crimea, which were Muslim (and still are). Muslims were killed in enormous quantities there by other Muslims, Christians, and atheists - as well as Christians were killed by other Christians, Muslims, and atheists all over the place, all in the name of getting rid of exploitation...
Your numbers also can't be accurate, cause nobody really counted. I would rather talk about several dozens of millions, including WWII - it gives the correct idea of magnitude, and does not imply that you are trying to fool others substituting estimates for exact numbers.
And how does the clap of one hand sounds?
I have to say it became interesting to read what you post lately, Mohit
That Misha is a Zen Koan- the one hand clap.
When you can taste the tea from an empty cup and hear the sound of one hand clapping, you will understand my child.
As far as I understand it, it is not the hearing of the sound that is important.
It is making the attempt
Easier said then done, ya know
And yeah, Anamika, hatred is not too enjoyable topic to discuss
Thats the truth.Being an enlightened poet my job is to inspire others including clowns like you to find God.
Continually attacking me in this fashion is unlikely to achieve it.
All you are doing is persuading me I was correct in my first assessment of your "enlightenment."
I own shoes that are more enlightened than you
You are the jester of hubpages on this religous forum.I cant help but think ,this guy has no knowledge yet he mocks God and truth.Even makes fun of thr Prophets on a religious forum.
Ask hubpages to make a badge of the joker and put it next to your name.
The real enlightened ones neither boast nor attack others personally, Mohit
I know that,but thats what the master says to his student in the zen koan.Simply go meditate harder.
Yes, but as webismine said, they don't attack others. And what leads you to believe Mark has no knowledge? He has his knowledge, just as you have yours and I have mine. He's a very intelligent person, and to sit there and claim enlightenment while belittling others for their views, thoughts and beliefs leads me to believe you are not as enlightened as you would like others to think. :-\
Why didnt Jesus attack others who were mocking God or portrayiong him wrongly.Do you suppose he was also not enlightened and people crucified him correctly.How can someone come on a religious forum and mock poeple who believe in God and how can you back him up for these actions.Right now he is talking Jesus slippers-isnt that being ridiculously audacious , which needs to be countered .You want to suck up to him go ahead ,I will not.
Everytime he mocks God or the Prophets I will mock him.
Remind me to ask my friend James for the title of this book he's reading about Jesus. It'd go well with your comment.
I'd be slightly worried if I started "sucking up" to anybody, because that would mean I'd need others' approval for my existence. Thankfully, I don't need that, so I'm pretty sure I'm safe from the fears of "sucking up" to anybody. Thanks for attempting to insult me anyway, mohitmisra.
Let me mention the fact that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and while you may not like theirs and they may not like yours, that doesn't give anyone the right to run around barraging people because their views conflict. Keep an open mind and wonder, why does so-and-so think this way? Why does he believe this? Why does she question that? When you get down to the nitty-gritty, no two people are exactly the same, and we must all learn to accept this fact with dignity and humility.
Jesus was a wonderful man, sure. I can't really argue that. He was a good teacher and a wise and caring human being, a rarity within our species. But I will admit I do not believe there is a God.
You are an atheist no wonder.Humanity is still crucifying Jesus and it saddens me..
He and you are ignorant about God ,I am not .My job is to spread the message of the light and I dont like the saints being insulted..
Also have never debated or spoken with you before.Its when you defend what is wrong,then I must take my stance .Death could not stop Jesus from speaking the truth and correcting others false beliefs and it will not stop me
Mo - Simply attacking anyone who does not subscribe to your admittedly poor understanding of Jesus' words will not win you any friends. You have insulted me repeatedly just because I do not believe the rubbish you choose to believe.
The great thing about these online conversations is - they are all written down. And stay here for ever.
Please quote me where I insulted a saint.
I may have made fun of you and to be honest - I am becoming sick and tired of hearing how enlightened you are
When you brag as much as you do, you are likely to be made fun of. Like I said - I own shoes that are more enlightened than you
I do not appreciate being attacked every time I say anything. If you cannot say something constructive (or at least witty) - why bother? Is this what your enlightenment has taught you? Attack anyone who says they do not believe the garbage you spout?
And you know what? It is not garbage because the original saint/writer wrote it as garbage. It is garbage because you do not understand it when you repeat it. You have made this abundantly clear. And are doing so right now.
LOL And I thought something changed!
Kika, nobody takes him seriously on these forums, so take it easy. With his constant claims to be enlightened and his behavior always contradicting those claims, he is a local entertainment
Oh, no. I am not Atheist. I am Agnostic. ^_^
In your eyes, yes, what some say is wrong. Debating is all fine and dandy, but what you're doing is throwing your ideals straight into the faces of those who do not idealize as you do. That leads to other tempers flaring, and no longer constitutes as a debate. I should know; I was on a debate team for years.
You can preach to the choir all you like. I will not stop you, it is your right to say what you want. But I will tell you that you are not debating, you are bearbaiting. Your "enlightenment" is nothing shy of personal shortcomings and belittlement of others. I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with your claim of being enlightened.
Darn it, why didn't I get the memo?? I dunno, Misha. I'm not finding him very entertaining. In truth, I'm finding him more and more impossible to believe. What kind of person says these things while claiming something that completely contradicts every bit of hate he spews? I just don't get people sometimes...
Nice you are an agnostic and you dont come here and make fun of people who believe in god or the Prophets.It when you backed Marks actions who is constantly insulting is when I said you are wrong to do this. Also Misha knows where knowledge is concerned he is no match for me,he was unable to understand questions I answered.He has no idea what enlightenment is but wants to decide who is enlightened and who is not-Grandmaster Misha hahahahahahhahaha
Many didnt believe Jesus claim of enlightenment and they crucified him,history is repeating itself.
I am literally rolling around with this one.
You are comparing yourself to Jesus now?
>.< Mark, you are REALLY not helping my case here... Seriously, why can't everyone just be NICE to each other?? Is that so dang hard??? Ugh! I'm giving up. I should just go live in a cave and become a hermit so I don't have to deal with the stupidity and hatred of humanity, because I've had it up to the gills with everyone.
*packs her bags and her books and goes to live in a tent in her backyard*
Like I said Mark you are very ignorant where is concerns matters of the spirit and have no idea what Jesus was about or what enlightenment is.You are laughing at your own ignorance not mine.
Don't be silly, stay and play.
Yes, when Mo starts telling me he is being crucified in the same way Jesus was crucified and history is repeating itself, I am likely to laugh at that. Life is to be laughed at.
Not sure where you get the stupidity and hatred though.
And you might want to look the words "atheist" and "agnostic" up in a dictionary
Well you are laughing at one of the highest ranked spiritual or religous poet this planet has seen.
Mo - If you have told me once, you have told me a thousand times how highly ranked you are
It just makes me laugh harder........
I know the difference between Atheist and Agnostic. I am Agnostic. I believe there is a possibility that there could be a God, and if there is a God, that's great. But until I have enough evidence in my hand to really knock me off my feet, I can't say there is a God, yet I can't say there isn't, either. I just need more proof.
I grew up Lutheran. I know all about God and His work and the Bible and all that lovely shpiel. There are just too many unanswered questions and untied knots for me to say, without a doubt in my mind and heart, that God is real and I should pledge my soul and life to Him.
Sorry, I get quite confuddling when I get a little Diet Coke in me. I still think Atheism is the belief in God, but the choice not to worship Him. I mean, you're still acknowledging His existence in claiming you choose to hate/not believe in Him, you know? Or maybe I'm just getting that from the Atheists I know. I don't believe there is a God, but there is a chance He could be out there. ... Am I getting confusing again?
No, I acknowledge the existence of no god. I do not choose not to believe in it. It simply does not exist.
There is no god. I do not hate something that does not exist.
You know some strange atheists And they are using the term incorrectly. Or they are believers putting spin on the word - they do that a lot. As you may have noticed.
I've noticed. Let me put it to you this way; I know some strange people, period. I'm willing to bet if anyone actually came over to my house and got to meet my best friend, they'd totally be weirded out. Don't get me wrong, my friend rocks my rainbow socks, but he's got to be the craziest, most random kid you will ever meet. Ever. And that is why I <3 him. Plus, it's fun to tease him when he goes all Christian on my butt. He's extremely smart, so I love discussing religions with him, even though he hates how idealistic I am in the pursuit of peace (since he doesn't think it's possible until after Revelations and all that).
I guess I'm just a crazy neo-hippy-thing. Oh well! I can deal with being a crazy neo-hippy-thing! ^_^
May I throw a monkey wrench into the mix?
Perhaps God exists as a social construct on the sub-conscious, unconscious, and sometimes conscious level as a universal and highly maneuverable set of memes that will not yield to rational analysis and incoherently exalts said construct through an act of collective self worship?
Perhaps "God" doesn't exist as a being apart from mankind, but only as an incoherent part of mankind that mankind has invented to attempt a Fiat demonstrating societal and political superiority?
So what does that make me? I don't believe in the spiritual definition of "God", but yet I wouldn't just sit back and cavalierly claim it's "All in their head" either. It's a little more complicated than that...
Kika I think you are sweet and have been trying to go to your home page for the last 20 minutes to become your fan but my comp just keeps hanging up every time.Anyways letting you know,take care,
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