Can homosexuals live a christian lifestyle or is that hypocritical?
@OP
"Can homosexuals live a christian lifestyle or is that hypocritical?"
I don't know. Go ask one.HEllO EL CAPITAN! I'M BACK. (drum roll! fireworks! cheering!) This is a question I always wonder about and never ask religious Gay people. Me, I love God; hate Cults. Like Cagsil; I'm going to get my milk and devil dogs ready and catch up on this forum. Great to be back!
Devil dogs?
We're talking about living a CHRISTIAN lifestyle and you're eating DEVIL dogs?
That's just rich!!
Yes, but I don't know why they would want to worship a god who hates them or would punish them for what they are. Before "Christ" came homosexuality wasn't a big deal. but people will be hateful and always have an excuse to back up the bible.
There are a lot of churches not accepting of Homosexuality but at the same time there are just as many churches, less hateful, and open to have one of "gods creation" in their house of god.Google is not the answer for everything... thank you for not sharing your infinite wisdom.
This is a side topic. Forgive me for making fun of you. A devil dog is a peice of chocolate cake shaped like a hot dog, split lenghwise with white cream between the top and bottom pieces of the cake. It's a product of the DRAKES cake company.
The DRAKES cake company makes Cup Cakes, Ring Dings, and these little square apple pies made like ravioli. They all come two in a pack; the cup cakes come three in a pack.
sad viewpoint.
What can be said about those children born into homes of abuse.. a REAL slippery slope.
For those who want a child of their own to nurture and love is a gift. Some couples can't conceive on their own.
It's 2011.Indeed it is 2011. I would have thought all of us would know a mom who is ecstatic because she got a chance to have a baby through some means other than a standard situation of husband/wife both fertile and able to conceive.
I know several just in my area.
The only "problem" I see for these kids is getting too much love.
If anyone finds out how to give a child too much love, let me know.
Yes indeed!
A regular rapture prediction can be counted on for many moons to come!
I think God didn't condone many things including men having multiple wives, but he tolerated it. In the same way, whether or not God condoned homosexuality or man did, one thing is sure -- Jesus never condemned homosexuality and he never "cured" a homosexual. I believe that gay people can enjoy a personal relationship with Jesus and that relationship is between themselves and God. We have nothing to do with it;. I also believe that homosexual people can go to heaven.
Thank you Grand Old Lady for reviving this Hub. It sort of dropped off the horizon 2 years ago.... things were a bit different then, even Ernest was alive and contributing his unique gifts of honesty.
Sadly, I feel, there are just as many bigots and pseudo-christians around as there were then. Conversely, there are just as many genuine homosexual persons around today, and we still have not brought the world to its knees! We still have lots to give, lots to share, lots to learn about life....and there is still lots of fun to enjoy.
Wishing you well..... =}Correction to Ms G.O.l To speak the truth Jesus did condemn it he said " do not be mislead" many are doing just that., found in 1Corthians 6:9 " nor men kept for unatral purposes, nor men who lie with men" will inherit God's kingdom. Romans 1:27says " they left their natural use " working what is obscene! " the truth is God's own words condemn the lifestyle. But people can accept the truth, or else the can be mislead into thinking it is ok. Along with others. The point is who words really matter. This is your life. The bible clearly says who will be allowed entrance into God's New kingdom. If all people go as they are now the kingdom would be filled with ungodly people who do not even respect bible law! If people can not do it here. They will not do it there , they will be denied entrance. With all do respect examine God's own words closely .KT
You then interpret the words "Do not be mislead" into "hate gay people"?
Did you know that a great many animals practice homosexuality? Nothing "unnatural" about it...
Words matter, yes, but when you twist them into a meaning they are not, or when they are false to begin with, their importance is greatly diminished.I didn't know that Paul was God??? When did that happen???
Paul wrote the Epistle to the Romans where he reveals that he is set apart by God for the purpose of preaching the Gospel, which he explains. He wishes to impart to the Roman readers a gift of encouragement and assurance in all that God has freely given them. He planned to visit Rome and then move to Spain.
Perhaps, you should be the one examining Romans more closely.Paul came behind Jesus , after his return to heaven ,Jesus was greater! And remember Paul was Saul first and enemy of true Christians .you are referring to his Saul period. When he persecuted God's people , he later became repented and change his views , and became a follower himself , Paul rightly supported Jesus and became whole souled in good moral standings .. really take another look.
- Wow, not only do you have no idea about Paul, you appear to not have even read the Bible, let alone know anything about the authors and their history.
Back then, it was common for Jews to have a Hebrew name and a Greek/Roman name. He inherited Roman citizenship from his father, hence he had the Latin name, "Paul". His Hebrew name was Saul.Acts 9:11 says Look for a man named Saul, from Tarsus. 14 verse tells his former ways, 15 verse Tells us Jesus told Ananias to be on his way for he was pick as a chosen vessel To bear witness to his name to the nations. And the rest of scriptures tell of his bearing witness to Jesus.For over a decade after becoming a Christian, this apostle seemed to have been known mostly by his Hebrew name, Saul. (Acts 13:1, 2) However, on his first missionary journey, about 47/48 C.E., he might have preferred to use his Roman name, Paul. He was commissioned to declare the good news to non-Jews, and he might have felt that his Roman name would be more acceptable. (Acts 9:15; 13:9; Galatians 2:7, 8) He may also have used the name Paul because the Greek pronunciation of his Hebrew name, Saul, is very similar to that of a Greek word that has a bad connotation. Whatever the reason for the change, Paul showed that he was willing to “become all things to people of all sorts, that [he] might by all means save some.”—1 Corinthians 9:22.
I guess the first thing we would have to do is assume the entire bible is the word of God and not a collection of writings by men a few thousand years ago. I think we have sufficient evidence to suggest the bible was written by homophobic, misogynistic, jealous slave owners. Are you able to determine that these are the qualities of your God?
Maybe that is the God you know ,The God I know has higher standards, but you can chose the God you want. Maybe many do like such qualities in their God. I am happy with mine.
Good then, we have established that your God didn't write the bible as those qualities are qualities described in the bible. Would you like me to point them out specifically?
First you have concluded my God did not write the bible Next my God used penman like secretaries to do the writing, it is very clear man could not know the history of man's existence and details even about how death came about , because he was born from a women. When Adam was not born.
What you wish to list is the conduct of men or humans who do not respect the laws of God. God destroyed a law defying people. sodom and Gomorrah.,the flood wiped ungodly people away preserving a few people .really if you do not believe why argue your opinion. When we have documentation s in history to prove different.You, nor anyone else could possibly know that. It is just as easy to say Satan or the Easter Bunny used penman to do the writing. It is not even an argument, it is a fallacy.
Really then tell me the history of a people or nation that still exist , with there feast, there nation still believes in the Old Testament of the bible. Their celebrations are still the customs of when God delivered them from Egypt.
Those people are Jews. You can not erase that fact. the thing is This is the true God I worship. The God that delivered them. The Gods you mention are the Gods that Egypt believed in that is still active today. I will soon post an unfinished hub of the difference .Red herring. We are talking about YOUR God, the God of the bible, not Allah, or Zeus, or Thor.
Well people have labeled my God unjust ,men are unjust and imperfect ,my God is perfect. he is not capable of injustice, nor lying for it is impossible for him to do so. Hebrews 6:18 says it.
People mix his purpose and his role with another god that has many names. That name alone is Satan the resistor .he has stolen and tarnish the name of our Heavenly Father for his own purpose to gain worship for hisself. And people do give that to him under many names. It is like you invent a wonderful and useful thing. And some one is Jealous enough to steal your rights as owner of your invention. And get credit by misinforming others you have a right to care for your creation. they even sabotage your name where people do not even know you are the creator. And they lie on you and say you are unfit. Really this is the case between satan and the true God of all creation at Exodus 6:2 ,Psalms 83:18 ,Isaiah 42:8, John 17:6God is responsible for the murder of more people than Hitler and Stalin combined, why not worship one of them, also? They had the capacity for love as well.
God is not responsible.
Religious institutions are.
Encouragement of belief that religious books are TRUTH and literal by institutionalized religions are what makes religion harmful.
Should religious books be banned? Probably not. I don't believe censorship is a good idea.
Should religious institutions, with their influence on millions of people (if not billions) be regulated somehow, or even banned? I don't know. Regulated maybe. Is it right to deny people the right to gather and discuss religion. Probably not.
Something needs to be done, in my opinion, but I don't know what.
What could be done, and yet not violate people's rights to practicing their religions, yet makes it so it's not such a huge problem?
I think (but I'm not sure) you are saying that men could not have known the story of Adam and Eve, therefore the bible must be factual because Adam and Eve are factual? Did I get that correct?
Which of the laws in the bible are you thinking we should follow? The laws about how to beet your slaves? The laws about how to kill a women for not being a virgin on her wedding night?
The God everyone knows is the God depicted in the bible. You simply refuse to see his lower standards while the rest of us see contradictions between his higher and lower standards.
I think we got off track a bit here, let's get back to his/her homophobia.
Good call, Rad Man. It is the homophobia which arises from Kiss and Tales' fallacious beliefs that causes so much social and personal suffering in this world. It is the homophobia that I reject, totally.
This Kiss'n whatever is so unintelligent in her grasp of logic, yet she listens to people who manipulate her mind, then spouts her own rubbish onto the lives of others.
If what she puts over is to be considered "christian," and therefore of a higher morality than anyone else, then I gladly reject anything of that religion, period. However, we know there are some very genuine, sensible, caring and responsible people who call themselves christian. They are the ones I have a lot of respect for.
My standards, just down-to-earth human standards, are what I apply in my life, - at least I try to.
My standards include a consideration for the welfare of all others, including the life forms which are not human. Christian standards in many cases exclude these things as they are perceived as of sub-human importance.
Kiss nTales you seem to make up the standards that suit you and, to gain acceptance for them, you call them "God's." Fallacious.
My reply is not to you Mr W. I no where use the word hate you did. You really like the word you use it. If a person does really care what God says on the subject and they do. Because they believe in God and heaven , then it would be the right thing to show the subject from a source they also believe in . nothing you say or even I will count they will make that decision themself. I just believe in the truth. You believe in your opinion interpretation. I believe in scriptures that speak for itself .
Kiss and Tales, Corinthians was written by Paul and were not the words of Jesus. Also, Romans 1:27 doesn't say that at all.
The whole bible is inspired by God regardless of who was used as penman.
Our laws have been printed in books also ,should we discredit because our written laws use penman also in published law Books .I do not believe so ? Apostle Paul was a chosen vessel by Jesus to declare the words of his Father as well as witness his works to the nation. The bible speaks for itself . 2 Timothy 3:16 17 I supplied the scriptures. That is your free will to believe as you wish.Yes, the Bible is God inspired, but it didn't eradicate the realities of life, like David having so many wives, killing an old man, and having his relationship with Jonathan when he said, "your love is better than the love of women. None of us are perfect, but if we receive Jesus in our lives, we can be saved, Homosexuals too. I believe that's why Jesus never personally condemned homosexuals.
Maybe you are not clear of what you want to believe. But the realities again is set before us ,again no man will condemn his self if a lifestyle is favorable to him, David errors were written down along with his good points, how would we know what David did if it was not recorded. God made sure it was recorded .
In our time people write books ,do they tell it all .do they hash their own faults making them a bad person to look at. ? People would be bias as to what is written and seen by the public. First I see people as God does , 2 Peter 3:9 " says but he is patient with you desiring any to be destroyed ,but desire all to attain repentance .verse 10 says yet his day is coming as a thief " 11 says what person's are you to be in holy acts of conduct. Again what you see was written as examples. David suffer many problems after he sinned greatly ,he did not have God's spirit to protect him from his troubles. But David learned and expressed repentance. Which is also recorded . We can learn how merciful our God is. but we have to admit wrong to change and gain his favor.Also if you do the research on David ,Jonathan was kin to David through Saul , people have twisted their relationship as sexual, not true.
G O L Then please you should quote what your bible says ! I quoted what mine said in our language.
"The bible clearly says who will be allowed entrance into God's New kingdom. If all people go as they are now the kingdom would be filled with ungodly people who do not even respect bible law! If people can not do it here. They will not do it there , they will be denied entrance."
This shows how muddled your mind is. If "all people go as they are now.." if they are ungodly how can they fill up the kingdom? You say they will not get in! What absolute rubbish you talk.Luke 13:24 “Exert yourselves vigorously to get in through the narrow door,+ because many, I tell you, will seek to get in but will not be able. 25 When the householder gets up and locks the door, you will stand outside knocking at the door, saying, ‘Lord, open to us.’+ But in answer he will say to you: ‘I do not know where you are from.’ 26 Then you will start saying, ‘We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our main streets.’+ 27 But he will say to you, ‘I do not know where you are from. Get away from me, all you workers of unrighteousness!’
And you are sure that you will be getting through that door eh?
I personally think I've had a few too many donuts to fit through that door;)
Never said that is was my call ! Or never said I gave the envitation to enter, but I am responsible for my own actions .and it will be up to him to accept me by invitation .
What makes you think, then, that he won't extend that invitation to gays/lesbians. I mean if you don't even know YOU aren't getting through, how could you possibly say whether or not someone else is?
Because of Romans 1: 27-29 also 1Corithains 6:9 says do not be mislead. Also as far as me getting in that is his judgment not mines we all will be judge ,and we all have access to what his words say . I did not make them up. As far as me I look to the scripture as saying "Requirements for Preservation
Could some individuals really be spared in the day of God's anger? Yes, provided that they met the three conditions outlined at Zephaniah 2:2, 3. As we read these verses, let us take special note of these requirements. Zephaniah wrote: “Before the statute gives birth to anything, before the day has passed by just like chaff, before there comes upon you people the burning anger of God before there comes upon you the day of God's anger, seek God all you meek ones of the earth, who have practiced His own judicial decision. Seek righteousness, seek meekness. Probably you may be concealed in the day of God's anger.”
For preservation, then, a person had to (1) seek Our Heavenly Father (2) seek righteousness, and (3) seek meekness. These requirements should be of great interest to us today. Why? Because just as Judah and Jerusalem faced a day of reckoning in the seventh century B.C.E., the nations are in fact, all wicked ones—are heading for a showdown with God at the coming “great tribulation.” (Matthew 24:21) Any who desire to be concealed at that time must take decisive action now. How? By seeking Our heavenly Father. seeking righteousness, and seeking meekness before it is too late!And you know that homosexuals don't do those things because...?
If you are looking for argument I am not. I never said what they do , I listed what God said they do . You have a issue with him not me. I listed the scriptures. It speak for itself.
Do you back the scriptures? Do you preach it and promote it?
Oh, you threw your opinion in there too.
It's amazing how the people who swear that their bigotry against gay people comes from the bible don't ever throw out quotes about love, forgiveness, or faith. They just use the bible verses (all 6 of them) that may mean homosexuality.
I personally have sought Jesus. I have sought righteousness and I have sought meekness. I fall short about as often as any other Christian I've seen. I'm also bisexual.
I've got as good a chance or more of making it through that doorway. I say more because on top of seeking those things, I've also left the judging to Jesus. You obviously, have not.Did I give you my opinion No ! I gave you scripture , you are giving me your opinion which you are welcome to ,and there is no argument here on my part and not once have I named called anyone. Again your argument is not with me personally . You are free willed just as I am to read and understand. I do not argue about anything that is written.
Nope, you quoted things that said what you wanted them to say. I think you accused someone else of that earlier.
Watch that log dear sister. Us abominations can handle our own motes.God's word will stand rather I am here or not ,you can not change truth because that is your choice. You can say what you like ,But what matters is whatGod feels in the end. There is no need to argue or get upset if you feel you are in good standing TRUE!
Mark 7:6
And he said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written, “‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me;
“I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ.” Gandhi
Are you being like Christ... Really? Is this what you think he would have acted like?
John 13:35
"By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.” That's the big guy himself. Where's that love in you?You make it clear that it is your opinion that the bible is Gods word and perfect. Then you quote scripture from it and claim that the scripture is not your opinion. Do you have one?
What happened to Jesus' statement that the only thing necessary was belief in Him? Did He change His mind later?
These people believed, but Jesus said get away from him! Workers of lawlessness .
Mathew 7: 21 “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will.+ 22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord,+ did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’+ 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’+
Again at Romans 10:2
For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God,+ but not according to accurate knowledge. And verse
Romans 10:3
For because of not knowing the righteousness of God+ but seeking to establish their own,+ they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.+
Romans 10:9
For if you publicly declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord,+ and exercise faith in your heart that God raised him up from the dead, you will be saved.
Romans 10:10
For with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration+ for salvation.
These are words of action more is done then just belief ."For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him shall be saved John 3:16
this is a contradiction. The Bible say both things. Who exactly are YOU to tell us which is right? Again, it's YOUR interpretation.
"40 But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? 41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”
42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.[b]”
43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”" Luke 23:40-43 where were the thief's works, exactly? Hanging on a cross, dying, he asked for forgiveness, and Jesus told him that he was saved as a result. According to you and your cherry-picked scripture, Jesus lied to him and that thief is in hell because he did not good works to accompany his faith.According to your own Understanding that makes since to you.
When really the way you posted it gives it no meaning.
You totally missed the meaning ! Maybe because you really do not want to know.my own meaning? I quoted the Bible, the book you claim to be the holy word of god himself, verbatim. Yet it's my own meaning, yet when you add your own interpretation, that's not somehow your own interpretation? Your double standards and hypocrisy are alarming, to say the least.
You are in no position to tell me what I do or do not want - or what I do or don't understand, since I have demonstrated several times that I know more about the topic than you do. Please stop.Did you know that God forbid eating raisins? And I owe him an offering after taking a communal bath, because I have a skin condition?
I'm pretty sure that Westboro has a mis-translated version of the bible. It didn't say anything about f*gs. It said FIGS. We all know that Jesus hated figs.
12 The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry. 13 Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs. 14 Then he said to the tree, “May no one ever eat fruit from you again.” And his disciples heard him say it." "20 In the morning, as they went along, they saw the fig tree withered from the roots. 21 Peter remembered and said to Jesus, “Rabbi, look! The fig tree you cursed has withered!”" Mark 11:12-14 & 20
Kiss n Tales, all this quoting from what Paul said is addressed in that book by Wayne Gray: "Homosexuality, The Bible, The Truth - The Bible Does NOT Condemn Homosexuality.”
Our fellow Hubber, Hanavee, has explained much of this misinterpretation in his hub, 10 - or so months ago:
" When you quote Paul, the famous passage from his speech to the Jews of Rome wherein he tries to stop the split that is growing between Jews and Gentiles, he speaks in the past tense, and he does so with a reason. He was talking to the Jews about their historical past in hopes that he could get them off their arrogant self-righteousness and embrace the Gentile converts to Christianity. Paul failed to get them to recognize how similar the past of the Jews was to the current Gentiles, and the split between Christian Gentiles and Jews grew until Rome ordered the persecution of this "new" religion, which ultimately caused Paul's beheading. Read the book that I have recommended, because there is an entire chapter on the writings of Paul, and every word that Paul has written is examined in truth and clarity. The choice is also yours to cling to your beliefs that have been handed down to you and condemn the truth that is being shown to you. The same happened when Paul preached to the Jews."
So you can see that your interpretations and understandings are not the only way of looking at the situation. Would you care to do some research for yourself?To Mr JC I am not Interested in a book that waters down God's own words. If that is what you want to believe I do not argue what you believe. You post statement of other imperfect people. Who are human and make mistakes, I do not doubt what they believe , but when it is compared to the word of God ,that is where the truth lies. You post opinion , you post choices of info you believe in I believe in God's genuine words over anybody. I have not changed ..
There is none so blind as the one who chooses not to see. (My paraphrase from the original.)
Then realize that the Bible could have never condemned homosexuality... since the word didn't exist then, in any language. Yet, it's there in the bible now. How could that be God's genuine word?
Does the words men who lie with men is very clear. 1 Corinthians 6:9
Romans 1:27-29 is clear.
Mathew 19:4 ,Before they could lie down to sleep, the men of the city—the men of Sod′om from boy to old man, all of them—surrounded the house in one mob. 5 And they kept calling out to Lot and saying to him: “Where are the men who came in to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we may have sex with them.”+
Genesis 19: 5 But they struck the men who were at the entrance of the house with blindness, from the least to the greatest, so that they wore themselves out trying to find the doorway.
Here the Angles of God was sought out . Why the angles took lot and his family by the hand to escape God's Judgment to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah .
We have history of the old and New Testament .Wow, that's not what Matthew 19:4 says AT ALL.
Corinthians, again with the word that didn't exist at the time the bible was written.
Genesis... yeah God was kind of mad that people wanted to rape his angels.
And I don't know what your natural use is (Romans) but mine isn't to be a sperm receptacle...
Again, why do you know these verses? Do you eat raisins?Rip that book up and start learning about this real world, here and now.
""'Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy." Ezekiel 16:49
Where does that say they were gay, exactly?"Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! Fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, sodomites, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers—none of these will inherit the kingdom of God. And this is what some of you used to be. But you were washed; you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God” (1 Corinthians 6:9-11).
Say's nothing about homosexuality that I can see. Not even the male prostitutes part, maybe God just doesn't like prostitution.
Either way, even if the Bible DID say that homosexuality was a sin, who cares? It would just be a regular sin like any other. Thievery, idolatry. All would still be welcome in Heaven, if they "Believe" According to your book.AMEN.
613 sins (I looked it up). Hell is going to be nothing but asses and elbows if everyone who has ever sinned is damned eternally.
I'm divorced. Going to hell. I'm bisexual. Going to hell. I eat raisins. Going to hell. I recieve pay on the same day I work. Going to hell.
I could go on like this forever, btw.That is a pity, Melissa. I am so pure that we will be in opposite camps!
Which of us do you think will offer Kiss & Tales her first drink?Can't. If we want to get out of hell, no wine... err... didn't Jesus make wine? But God said not to drink it? Huh?
I can beat you.
I'm an atheist (don't believe), going to hell.
I'm gay, going to hell
accept evolution, going to hell.
Try to encourage others to think, going to hell (well, my mom thinks I'm Satan so YAY point for me)
blaspheme the holy spirit by questioning its existence, going to hell
question the historicity of jesus, going to hell
think I have better morals than the god of the old testament, going to hell
took a college biology course, going to hell
I teach guys things they don't know all the time, going to hell
I wear jewelry, going to hell
don't have enough hair to braid - so I escaped that one
I don't have a husband to teach me properly, going to hell
I read the bible for myself, going to hell.
Shall I continue?
If you bring the chocolate, I'll bring the marshmallows.I love marshmallows.
Oh I could go on much longer than you. You are essentially a nice person. I'm not. I've got pages I could fill up.I can beat both of you.
Bisexual- Going to Hell.
Made up my own religion-Going to my own personal Hell probably. I will be stuck with the Scientologists of all people
although we've disagreed a lot in the past, and probably will in the future, I like you janesix :-) We'll save you a seat by the bonfire (but my list was still longer than yours)
Weren't the writers of the Bible human beings who made mistakes?
Kiss and Tales, I don't care really what YOU believe.... provided you don't use what you believe in order to condemn a group of people whom YOU don't understand, when you don't know WHAT they do in the privacy of their own lives, and WHEN you are in no position to assess or judge their lives.
YOUR attitude breeds divisiveness. It builds up hatred amongst other peoples against a minority group. YOUR attitude is TOTALLY contrary to the (apparent, there is no absolute proof) teachings of that person you call Jesus.
You spin all the corrupting lies as you want to see them in an ancient book.
This why I confront you here, not because of your personal beliefs.
The law your heart wants you to follow. Because The God I worship believes neither ,that is why you are speaking of another god.
Are your Gods words written down? Can you show them to us?
I worship one God . The same God that delivered Israel from the Egypt under Pharaoh's rule. The Egyptians worship many God's . But my God manifest his name and power in behalf of his chosen people. He proved to be what he proved to be. Pharaoh of Egypt let them go!. Today there are still the many gods of Egypt people worship today. Many under mythical beliefs.
I will post a hub on god's of old and the difference of the genuine true God .Much better theologians and biblical scholars than you have already attempted that many times and failed. But, by all means, that should be rudimentary entertainment based on your own personal beliefs, no doubt.
You mean the God who is said to have said this?
"You shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the LORD your God am a jealous God"
this?
"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ."
and this?
"Anyone who is captured will be cut down—run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked, and their wives will be raped."How Can You Choose?
The Bible says that our Creator is a God of love in whom no wickedness dwells. This God of love says: “I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the malediction; and you must choose life in order that you may keep alive, you and your offspring.” (Deuteronomy 30:19) God created man with free will. When humans chose to stop acting in harmony with God’s purpose, they became subject to death. However, you can choose life. But you have to make the choice for yourself. Nobody can make that choice for you.
How do you choose life? First, you have to assure yourself that the Bible is God’s inspired Word. For this, an earnest, unprejudiced study of that book is necessary. Then you have to learn from the Bible why God created man, why we die, what happens after death, and how you can please God.
Don’t say: ‘This is a very difficult task; I am unable to do it.’ Would God promise life and then make it impossible for some individuals to find it? If the information we need is in the Bible, will not God help us in our investigation of that book? Just put forth a sincere effort. It is the most worthwhile thing you can do.I did , you just do not accept the answer. People are free will they chose their law ,they want to obey. Just like the law of the land now. you can break a law if you chose ,but you also chose the responsibility paid for breaking it. Many are in Jail now because of their choices.
No difference. To make it more personal we all need money . Will we just go out and rob a bank because we have the power to do so! I would think not! You know the laws. If you chose to ,then is it unjust to exercise laws. These laws protect other lives as well and keep order.I'll try again,
Is this the words of the God you follow, Are these his laws that you follow?
"You shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the LORD your God am a jealous God"
"Anyone who is captured will be cut down—run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked, and their wives will be raped."You pick words to mean what you want to say , no different if I take a judges law book and pick and choose words to fit what I want to say.
First of all you are telling me you do not respect law at all. People have always been under Government law. But the example you give is to tarnish the name of our father. try rearranging the words in your land Government today. They would call it betrayal. And disrespect of your country. So your question is invalid to me.But I didn't rearrange any words. I didn't add or take any away.
The second commandment states
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments."This reads different from your first statement which can now be understood.when you write feel free to show me your source of scriptures . That is very Important.
This is his true words what is wrong Is these words reflect love and feelings Example ,If you had a child and you did everything for that child's happiness and that child goes and give another father a trophy for being a great Dad ! How would you feel? This is the case.notice the words love ,which relate to feelings. You see you are reading with your eyes ,there is more you can also read from the heart.Is this not only true with married couples. Exclusive devotion to your relationship.if you love one another.
He openly admits he is a jealous God? Would you agree with that?
I would think God would be mature enough not to cry in his soup if his child wasn't loving and respectful enough.
"...no different if I take a judges law book and pick and choose words to fit what I want to say. "
Is this a confession?
When you have made " an earnest, unprejudiced study of that book," let us know... it might change the way you speak of it.
Mathew 7: 21 “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will.+ 22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord,+ did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’+ 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’+
24 “Therefore, everyone who hears these sayings of mine and does them will be like a discreet man who built his house on the rock.+ 25 And the rain poured down and the floods came and the winds blew and lashed against that house, but it did not cave in, for it had been founded on the rock. 26 Furthermore, everyone hearing these sayings of mine and not doing them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.+ 27 And the rain poured down and the floods came and the winds blew and struck against that house,+ and it caved in, and its collapse was great.”Can you show that in the bible, or is that just K&T speaking? Again, Jesus said absolutely nothing about required works to get into heaven, but was pretty darn plain that if someone believed in him the door was open. Not that they believe his comments were correct, just that he was a god.
I showed you scripture Mathew 7:21-27
James 2:26 Says faith without works is dead. Belief is not enough.
Revelation 7:9 shows these survivors of the great tribulation .verse 13 says "Says these who are dressed in the white robes 14 ,these are the ones that have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Meaning it took action on their part to make their robes white in the blood of the lamb. They cleaned their lives up .they made needed changes.No, that's not what that means. It's only your personal interpretation.
The scripture speaks for itself. If you disagree with what is written that also is your free will. No argument here.
The scripture doesn't speak for itself. It is contradictory in many places, and unclear. It is a mix of metaphors. Jesus even says so, that he talks in parables.
Example when you have an unworked puzzle , all pieces look alike and when you try to piece it together certain pieces appear to be right . And they do not fit.
Yet as you work your puzzle you find out that those pieces do fit perfectly in place and you no longer doubt the intire picture. You successfully put it all together . And now you see how that picture developed.
The bible is a book with history ,it carries dates, it gives family history, it has a theme and purpose. It is inspired by a writer that new the beginning of all things as recorded ,one man's life span could not cover the history and details that only God could tell and preserve. His word is not bias he speaks truth of history the good and bad of man. Also spirit creators who have fallen out of good standing with him. The book is not contradictory . The problem is all the pieces do not fit for Some , But it for others the picture is clear. The beginning is in harmony with the ending.Yes, the bible is a book with history. It carries dates - that are wrong by thousands or billions of years. It gives family history - that is 100% wrong. It has a purpose, but that purpose is not fulfilled. The writers knew nothing of the beginnings of all things and so made it up.
But at the end of it all, the picture is very clear - as long as the meaning of the words is changed to fit what the believer wants to hear.If you doubt the word of God then you have contradicted your own words as saying I will believe what Jesus said. For what Jesus has said is in that book.
I believe that if you believe in Jesus as a god you will be His heaven - this is according to his words.
You, on the other hand, believe that you must perform certain actions to be in His heaven one day; this is according to the words of a man.
And now you say you will believe what Jesus said - when they contradict, as James does with Jesus, why do you believe James then?To believe in Jesus is more then saying you do! Jesus set the example of getting Baptized he was God's own son without sin yet he got baptize. Action! He preached to a multitudes of people , Action. He fed multitudes , Action, he healed the sick, Action, his last commands before he ascended to heaven in
Matthew 28:19, 20
Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations,+ baptizing them+ in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you.+ And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”*+
Notice this is a command of action given. Unti this system ends.Really?
I guess I'm never getting into heaven, as I can't turn a few loaves of bread into thousands.You shouldn't be trying to instruct men in scripture. It's a sin. In fact, you shouldn't be teaching at all. You should go home and let your husband explain them to you so that you can learn.
"I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet." 1 Timothy 2:12
"If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church." 1 Corinthians 14:35Psalm 68:11
God gives the command;
The women proclaiming the good news are a large army. Their is no restriction for speaking the truth.So the other two verses are crap? God didn't mean them?
So you're saying the Old Testament supersedes the New Testament? That Paul was wrong? Then the Bible is not infallible like you claim it is. It's called cherry-picking. You pick the verses that you like, and ignore the ones that you don't.
Last time I checked, Jesus didn't write any of the psalms. So it's okay to ignore some parts in favor of others? Do you believe the whole bible? Or do you (like others) Rewrite the bible to suit yourself and prostitute the name of the person that the religion you claim to follow is named for?
The obvious conclusion is that you may browbeat women and children (good luck with that and these three particular women!) but not men. God considers women inferior to men, as has been shown in church dogma for millenia - take your hint from that (and scripture) and do not be so bold as to instruct men.
"Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God" John 1:12
the bible is good in every part. It gives the mind of Christ ,and in turn we have the mind of our Heavenly Father.
John 1:12
This scripture is talking about spiritual Israel ,the Jews of his own faith rejected him, So a new Israel was created. They are the Children of God. Not the whole nation of Jews .More personal interpretation. Either the Bible is good and stands on its own, or you by default find it lacking and have to then add your own take on it.
Did you intend to sidestep the question without being caught at it? 'Cause it didn't work.
You have zero idea what is in the head of anyone, whether they believe or not. And while Jesus did many things (or is at least claimed to have done them in the bible) there is no indication that he ever required anyone else to do them to get to heaven. A good thing, too, as neither you nor I can walk on water.
Or did you intend to insinuate that the action listed (evangelizing) will get you into heaven? Because there is no indication from anyone that that is a requirement. It is YOU that makes that connection - not Jesus. You and James, apparently, but certainly not Jesus.
Which puts you right back to the same question; why do you believe James instead of Jesus?I do understand this is not an instruction for anything on my part . But I do Share the scriptures as bible truths ,and just as people ask me questions I answered them. It does not mean I am Instructing anyone. Many have ask of me why I believe and where did I see this from the bible I respond. Sometimes to more then one person . I try to answer all questions solely from God's word. Yet people do have their own believe just like I do . I respect that . But I will not speak untruth.
Why do you ask me questions if you do not agree with anything. You see I attempt to answer and now I am instructing . So I will not even answer your question based on your commit about instructing , next it really does not matter to you what I say. You have proven that . So I only continued to speak for something more important. I have finished. Their is no more to post on the subject.
I have no idea what half of that meant. Besides what Wilderness points out about the fake history and dates, it looks like you're saying JESUS wrote the Bible. Please, tell me you aren't claiming THAT.
What I am saying is the knowledge of Jesus comes from the bible. He is also known as the word.
The beginning is only "in harmony" with the ending in that Genesis is the story of creation, while Revelation is the story of the end of the world before the New Jerusalem is created. That's not harmony. That's just whoever threw the dozens of separate books together thought, "Well, gee, maybe we should put the beginning at the beginning, and the end at the end. Good Idea!" Then tossed in the scores of other books in the middle, probably at random where they didn't seem to fit chronologically.
Think about it.Well we see differently it is not confusing to me at all ,I have not listed as being confused . It all makes perfect sense.it is structured like any book .the beginning and the end. The middle leads to the conclusion..
Not really. The middle is kind of a jumbled mess, stuck together rather haphazardly. There is a vague chronological order, if you discount the obvious contradictions. Heck, there are tons of (general) contradictions just between the four gospels. How do you defend that?
Yes in your own opinion , example many can not work a rubix cube. When you have others that know how to work it without any trouble. To others it seems impossible. The bible seems Inpossible also to understand with it's many parts. Yet it is really complete in all it's books in knowledge of our human life's.
I don't care what you believe. It's not really my business. If you're going to preach though, you might want to admit that what you believe is merely your interpretation of the Bible.
That way, there won't be huge long arguments on who's right and who's wrong.
If you say the Bible has an obvious, universal interpretation that should be known and obvious to everyone, then you would be totally wrong.
If that were true, there would be no debate at all.No I will not admit a scripture that is posted is my interpretation I did not create the bible it was here long before you and I . So you have a problem with the Author not me.
I'm not talking about scripture you quote. I'm talking about what YOU say it means.
Why won't you address the rest of what I said?
Do you think you have superior knowledge of the Bible?You're posting verses, then telling everyone (in your own words, and therefore by your own interpretation) what it means, like we're somehow unable to read the words for ourselves. I read Greek and some Hebrew and Latin (not nearly as fluently as I used to), and I am overly familiar with the history of the church, and I assure you that everyone one these forums can read.
I think what we're trying to show you (many of us, at this point) is that it's your INTERPRETATION to tell us what the verses mean. You're not letting the words of the scripture speak for themselves, you're doing the opposite. Unless you're claiming to be God, your interpretation is no more or less valid than anyone else's interpretation, so there's really no need for us to put any stock in your interpretations at all.
For example, I posted Matthew 23:15. Instead of responding to the verse, you told me that the verse doesn't mean the same to us in English as it did in Hebrew. When I pointed out that it wasn't written in Hebrew, but in Greek, posted the Greek and asked for your opinion - you basically said you knew enough and didn't need to learn any more, even though you tried to correct my original posting, saying that it didn't mean what it said - that it meant what you interpreted it to mean. And you got the language wrong.
With this type of dishonesty and blatant disregard for the actual facts, why should you be considered any more credible than I am, or other Christians who disagree with your interpretation of your holy book - many of which (including an atheist) who have proven to be much more knowledgeable on the subject of your own book than you are?
Where I get my knowledge is from the same book you read and have accessed. The Bible ! How we view and see things comes out very differently. And I do not think it is by accident.
John 5:24: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
John 3:14-16: And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Jesus words are VERY plain here. It seems that James is trying to add to it, as is his privilege. For himself; there is nothing ever indicated that James has the right to change the meaning of Jesus' words. For myself, I will take the words of Jesus as truth, and neither James's nor yours as neither agrees with the god turned man.
And no, white robes means they believe, not that they took any action at all. This is in accordance with Jesus's teachings and His words - again, you cannot change the meaning OR the words to suit your own purposes.I will reply to each scripture you have quoted ,this is true. I appreciate your words to take Jesus words over others I truly agree with you. I will get back with you on your post.
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are." Matthew 23:15
"Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?" Matthew 7:1-3True but we talk in not in that English today. So many words spoken have different meanings. Like in Hebrew it is a different language we do not speak everyday. But the meaning here means judge not and you will not be judge. As I did write I judge no one , the judging is left up to our Heavenly Father . I do believe in it . But the bible is a public source of information .Most all have access to it. If you read it , it is what it is. Rather we accept it or not.
The new testament was not written in Hebrew, it was written in Greek. If you want original languages, fine. I can do that too.
23:15 οὐαὶ ὑμῖν γραμματεῖς καὶ Φαρισαῖοι ὑποκριταί ὅτι περιάγετε τὴν θάλασσαν καὶ τὴν ξηρὰν ποιῆσαι ἕνα προσήλυτον καὶ ὅταν γένηται ποιεῖτε αὐτὸν υἱὸν γεέννης διπλότερον ὑμῶν
Do you read greek? No? Do you know anything about the early church or history?
You're going on and on about teaching "gods" law, but pay no attention to what Jesus himself had to say to the "teachers of the law" in his own time. It's hypocritical, which, ironically, is exactly what Jesus said to them. If you're going to teach it, you may want to begin by knowing something about it.
23:5 πάντα δὲ τὰ ἔργα αὐτῶν ποιοῦσιν πρὸς τὸ θεαθῆναι τοῖς ἀνθρώποις πλατύνουσιν γὰρ τὰ φυλακτήρια αὐτῶν καὶ μεγαλύνουσιν τὰ κράσπεδαI am satisfied with what I know. I never said I had a problem or question what the bible says ,if you have a gift in your knowledge many will be grateful of your sharing it in that language ,for me I have no doubt of the truth ,And if God himself labels me a judgment I humbly accept his word . If the shoe fits wear it. I do not picture myself as perfect But I do recognize God's word as truth.
If God's word is truth, then you should most definitely not be changing it to something else. Accept what it says without need to make it palatable and more acceptable . When Jesus (God) says believing is enough then it is enough! No actions need be added by James or you. When God says the world was underwater for months, then it was and there need be no talk of a local flood. When God says the earth is 6,000 years old, then it is and all the science in the world cannot change it.
Accept God's word as truth and quite spinning it into something it isn't!
If you really care about being a follower of Christ you would not be so offensive about bible scriptures, I did not quote any words of my own as opinion. Since you are trying to start an argument I will not respond to your post.
Here's a hint - no one is being offended by the scriptures.
I'll respond to yours as long as you are spreading hatred in Christ's name.
I'm kind of fond of him and I'm getting really tired of people using him as an excuse to hate.Again you can reply as you wish but I have never express any hatred in my post. You interpret it that way.
Really others can tell the difference . I do not have to argue with you.You only chose verses that you think mean that all homosexuals are going to hell, posted them, and now hide behind using the word of God to cover that hatred. The Westbourgh Baptist folk do it all the time... is there no hatred there? Are they just spreading God's word?
Jesus never meant for his words to be used to cut people. That's what you are doing... you are scripture mining verses that support the argument that YOU believe in anyway. You would believe the same without the bible to back you up... You would never say such things unless you had the Bible to hide behind because you know they are WRONG.
No, you don't have to argue with me. You are free NOT to post.Again you start your sentence telling me about all gays ,where in my post have I quoted about all gays? I said nothing about hell either " you speak out of anger but not in truth of what has been posted. Because you only want to argue. This is my last post to you.
I am angry because you are using MY GOD to push your agenda. That's it.
You like to quote James, here's one for you:
"If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless."
Think that one over.You have no scripture with your words. But if God said it I accept it humbly.
I do receive that scripture under God 's Authority , he is the one that knows what I should bridle ,I am under his mercy not yours. If you believe in this words of scriptures ,then why is it hard to accept the rest?
I accept the word, I just don't accept your interpretation of it.
I've found that those who take it out of context and just post scriptures, especially those 6 about homosexuality, are using it to press their own agenda. Even the Bible, especially the Bible at times, can be twisted an manipulated to serve ones own needs.
There are over 600 sins in the Bible. I believe the number is 618. And every single one of us have violated easily 300 of those in our lives. Yet those 6 verses everybody with an agenda can pull out word for word. Until you can quote every one of those sins, picking one of them and using it as a flag to rally around is bending the Bible to fit the things that you personally have a problem with.
Jesus sent a thief on a cross, who believed for 5 minutes before he died and committed a whole host of sins to heaven... yet for some reason you think that those 6 verses apply more than that act of forgiveness.
Even demons admit there's a God and believe in him (that's James too). To be a Christian, a real Christian (and don't I hate that phrase) means to try to be like Christ. You're throwing an awful lot of stones dressed up like scripture. Christ said something about that too...(John 8:7)
"To Mr JC I am not Interested in a book that waters down God's own words. If that is what you want to believe I do not argue what you believe. You post statement of other imperfect people. Who are human and make mistakes, I do not doubt what they believe , but when it is compared to the word of God ,that is where the truth lies. You post opinion , you post choices of info you believe in I believe in God's genuine words over anybody. I have not changed .."
Do you get God's word from a secret, invisible Bible no one else can see? What on Earth are you even talking about?If I ask you to explain Latin and to write me a letter because I also speak it ,and I also know the language, which means I can read your letters in the language We both share a language we can interact with. On the other hand if I Try to explain medicine to a patient we would have to use their language , but as today they may not be able to read the prescription because it is in Latin . They are limited to this language that doesn't seem to make sense in the appearance of its writings, what I am getting to is that God almighty gives gifts in men to understanding the language of the bible . It is his own language of understanding . Many people will never see eye to eye or ever agree .But one thing is for sure he will manifest himself and his words ,there will be no doubt of truth and what his words mean, my last post.
Your last post, then Good Bye.
I understand you now though.
I know that God's spirit speaks to us. But it is ALWAYS unclear, we just think it's clear, because it is our personal interpretation filtered though our personal biases. YOU think it is clear. It feels that way. But it's not. You have a closed mind. If you can understand that it is merely your interpretation, then you can progress spiritually. Until then, you are going to be stuck thinking YOU are right, and everyone else is wrong.
None of us knows for sure.First you tell me I have a closed mind ! I do have a close mind to people who want to replace the word of God with their own thoughts and interpretation , for I am seriously convince that what is said and written is the truth I do not water the truth down for the convenience of others. You can not make the words of God say something it does not. You can direct your anger at me for believing it. You can say what ever you want about me , But when you get down to the truth you are attacking God , his words ,not my own. So again I am Not the judge of people but people set their own Judgments , My last statement to you was to let you know we do not speak or agree on the subject, and nothing has change .So I am not trying to please no one ,accept the one who judges all. This is my last statement if you post to me it would be a waste of your time.
She isn't attacking God, YOU are. When you twist His words into something they do not say, when you change what the bible means from what it says, it is YOU attacking God and His words as being untrue.
The only real question is why you can't see it, and the only real answer is that you have a closed mind as to what the word of God is. You want it to be something other than what it says, so it is just that, without ever considering that you might be wrong. Because, as you have pointed out, you are better than everyone else in the world; chosen by God as the only one to understand His words.
Baloney - your "understanding", your spin and your twist on scripture is no better than anyone else's and worse than most. You haven't even made the effort to read scripture as it was written or understand the culture then; you cannot possibly understand what the original writers want. Only what YOU want the book to say.She's sounded her last post, Wilderness, so I suspect this thread will fizzle like most others do, when it comes to standing up for the rights of gay people.
Not one of us will ever change her opinion, so let's leave it there. We have lots of people willing and keen to incorporate the holistic Great Wide World into their psyche and accept people of different sexual attractions into their midst, without judgement. (I am only talking here, of course, about those attractions which are mutual, between consenting persons, who can make their own judgment without cruelty, bullying, control placed over them.)
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