Will homosexuals go to heaven or hell when they die?
Good luck with the not believing in death, I think you may be persuaded of the reality of it in time
Fundamental laws of the Universe do not dictate human life - the rules of life are dictated by society - and speaking out against homophobia as many of your unknown friends do in these threads is about changing the views of the mass of society in the face of aggressive religious weirdism.
i hear that. GBU2
if not a lifestyle then what.. just a random thing that occurs once in a while?
I see the can of worms. Even random things that occur infrequently leaven the whole lump, do they not?
This is i suppose why the rabbis spent so much time dissecting Gods laws. Do not work on the sabbath was a big debate. What is meant by work.. carrying 70lbs would not be work to a man but to a woman it would be, pushing the car, winnowing wheat is work and when one walks through a wheat field do they not winnow. lol.
Paul said "let everyman be convinced in his own mind" (as to what is right and wrong) and this is the personal relationship we each have with God our maker. One may esteem one thing clean and another unclean.
I see another can of worms now.
That's a good observation
...or any other rational being for that matter!
I prognosticate the world will end before you get an honest answer to those excellent points.
We may need to pray for an honest religionist to stand up and be counted.
Isn't this an oxymoron?)I must say I have seen a lot of dishonesty in these religious threads, and almost no answers to legitimate questions, just excuses and side steps to avoid.
Need sleep. Now missing for 8 hours or so. Goodnight, and may the gods be with you all.
Sure!
And then the three little pigs went whee whee whee whee all the way home.
As a Christian here is my opinion based on reading the Bible. Which means not just reading what the church teaches, but reading the book itself.
Do homosexuals have any chance of getting into heaven? First and foremost nobody has actually gone to heaven, except for Jesus. Nowhere in the Bible does it say we go to heaven when we die.The only person that is immortal is God himself. 1 Timothy 6:16. 36 times the Bible talks about us going into a deep sleep, but again nowhere does it say we go to heaven, but of course we are taught this in church. I believe it is a way to gave us peace when our loved ones are gone.
In God's eyes, is being homosexual any more different than being an adulterer or killing someone? This question has many questions in it. A person cannot compare homosexuality to an adulterer or murder, they are all completely different entities. In God's eyes however a sin is a sin, but all of us fall short of the Glory of God. So all of us are sinners in some form. Judging is a sin, blasphemy is a sin and the list goes on.
Can homosexuals also be forgiven? Of course they can be forgiven, all of us are created in God's image. All of us are God's children.It is interesting to hear Christians talk about sin, judging and what their God thinks. I would suspect they're wrong anyways.
God might get a serial killer placed in front of him for judgment and find that the killer had a physical disability in his brain and couldn't help himself, something only God would know, so He would just remove the disability and allow the killer into heaven.
If He's a loving God, He would also look upon the homosexual with love knowing that person did no wrong in their lives and never tried to intentionally hurt anyone.
A hateful God would treat each sin equally no matter what the circumstance and dole out his wrath upon them all.
See how easy it is to think for God?
They won't go to heaven or hell. There is no such thing.
Yes it is as common as mud.
Almost as common as ignorance and stupid homophobes.
ive got the answer to your question .........they willl sadly go to hell BUT , there is this guy name jesus christ who died for our sins ...that means yes he will forgive you no matter what you did or who you are .No you cant go to heaven as a homosexual but he will help you change that .and no in gods eyes being a homosexual is no different than being an adulterer or a murderer.there is no degree in sin in his eyes..even the thought of adultery is the same as commiting audletry.this is no opinion but a fact in christian belief.
That is an obvious lie.
Maybe, but most likely they were lying, just like many Christians do here.
So, a fairy tale man predicted his own fairy tale ending?
I don't want anyone dying for me, that is just so horribly wrong. I am not lost eternally so I don't need to be forgiven.
Great sense of humor. Keep it up.
He always is - one of the most consistently funny guys here.
Yuk yuk Cute
Actually, what Jesus supposedly said was according to the guy, who heard it from another guy, who interpreted it from something written by another guy, who didn't like the way it was made up, and therefore......
Actually, you are wrong again, Jacob. Geesh, where did you learn the origin of your favorite guidebook, in church? It's the absolute worst place to learn about the origin of your bible, you know.
The actual writers of the gospels are unknown and are considered to be anonymously written at least 30 years to several centuries after the death of the supposed Jesus person. Why do you think the Gospels are prefaced with "according to"? Or perhaps you think the eyewitnesses waited for a couple of hundred years before writing down the "miracles" they witnessed?
yes that's right
Nobody hates homosexuals!
Nobody hates..period (least its not posted here)
Ok I admitt it gets attention to post such untruth,causes a sensation, blah blah blah...but it just isnt so ,so there
As for the rest of your statement ,put up or ...shhh up
On a side note maybe my DNA says I should be slim and beautiful...boy am I mad at GodDeborah is right. Plenty of studies give evidence that people are born homosexual. I don't understand why this is such an issue with some christians.
You guys say it isn't hate, and I'm sure you believe that. But, it certainly does come off that way, to the casual observer. Why is that? Do you think?
It isn't that we're anti God as many of you have implied. There are plenty of people who believe in God posting here that don't agree with the anti homosexual stance.It is an issue Emile because we have seen ,ok I have seen some information and it is not conclusive at all.
If you know something I dont ,Im open to seeing itI have never questioned anyones right to do whatever they want ..but when they feel compelled to use medical authority,then why not post it..
God knows I have to post why I believe what I do
I guess I am adressing the people in question and not any individual homosexual
I have often said the same thing ,just in fewer words
I also think its a personal decision accepting or rejecting Christ.I agree totally with you that life is not black and white,however Gods word does seem to be quite clear on certain issues. (Not just homosexuality)
How that is percieved ,once again is up to the individual.
I guess if we wanted to ,we could all find evidence to back up our opinions/thoughts etc,such is the jungle of information online and perhaps personal experiences etc.
Well said, Eaglekiwi.
lol @ the "mad at God" joke! He short-changed me too! I thought I should look like Michelle Pfeifer or Sharon Stone..... I can't figger out why I don't!! - well its noted Im sure, and Brenda , we will be saying
Move over Michelle and Sharon ,the Glory Girls are in the house!
p.s Thank-you.
__________________________
I have my masters in nursing and work for a research and training hospital. Email me and I'll give you the number so you can call them and request a copy pf their studies.
A certain person in this thread has expressed hate many times in other threads
Put up or shhup??..you do sound like a christianI have goggled other Universities and teaching hospitals ,but thanks for the email offer all the same.
Doctors,Scientists, then all the specialists in their field constantly research and research,updating information etc etc,but its called research for a reason-checking to find a system of facts.
It seems that even Scientists can not agree.
But if you worship the wrong god you may end up in hell anyway. You really haven't given this much thought have you? The different possibilities, I mean. There aren't merely two, you know.
Fundies! They never could figure probabilities.Faith Randy-Faith
Faith to believe when God said..
“I have loved you with an everlasting love;
I have drawn you with unfailing kindness.
I stand for something ,so I dont fall for anythingPerhaps EK. but some gamblers have full faith in a horse, before it loses the race to another horse.
Just pointing the lack of logic some use to proclaim their faith is only one of two possible options. True enough Randy:)
And I have faith every time I step onto a plane that the pilot will get me to where he says he will. ( And I dont even know the guy ,or have seen his creditials). Same with the surgeon,as I fall under a deep sleep.
Faith is described as things hoped for unseen and that about sums it all up
How are you by the way? its finally cooling down here ,Kiwigirl likes that alot.Faith is powerful Kiwi.
Thank you for the polite and reasoned response Forrest.
The biblical Messiah I would suggest was a fateful set of circumstances. Perhaps several others had as much tenure. It would seem difficult to select a particular evangelical from the period who would be the one true son of god, as these messianic figures were all singing from the same song that had been sung by others many years before and recycled.
The current documentaries clear this up pretty well in my opinion.
OT is not the source of christianity... CHRIST likeness... there was no christ in the OT earnest or did you not thoroughly study it enough to notice that Christ is NT. So the source of CHRISTianity is NT .. NOT the OT.. because:
1 Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them (OT) for samples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
I gotta be careful when correcting those that have studied bible for 30 years when i've been at this for 2 yrs.I know, I know! You are a genius and a legend in your own lunchtime who eats Hawking and Einstein for breakfast because you can make word soup from a bunch of recycled stories that have been told since ra.
You won't be needing my adoration after all.Actually earnest, the stories have been told since Anu. Ra came much later.
I stand corrected.
The Sumerians may have invented the first trinity.
Actually I love all people because God commanded it.
Christians dont make the rules ,but ought to be doing their best every hour of every day to follow Christs example,which is an ongoing daily walk.
Is it a cake walk ,of of course not
Are they perfect ,no,again
Humilty however doesnt mean lack of confidence and meekness is not weakness.
Another "judgement" by those Jesus is said to have told "not to judge".
How do you feel about the sin of gluttony? One almost never hears a sermon concerning this from the pulpit. I wonder if it's because many preachers and religious advocates are obese? 
It's not unlawful judgement if it's true, Randy!
Who decides if it is true, Jakob? Only christians, or do others have a say so too?
It also says to kill those who labor on the Sabbath. Have you ever witnessed people working on the Sabbath? If so, how did you smite them? The bible says to be honest, so let's see how literally you take it.
Perhaps we can have all have a descent discussion if everyone can learn the true definition of judgement.
You are absolutely correct Kiwi.
So there are no scriptures where god tells his followers to kill others? Which bible are you reading?
So who determines if the killing is needed? You didn't answer my former question regarding god's words concerning one who labors on the Sabbath. How did you obey this scripture when you witnessed it happening? did you obey the literal scripture written by the men "inspired by god"?
Easy to say when you aren't being fed to the lions.
believe me, as a 'christian' I am just as amazed as you, if not more . There are as many different views and opinions within the Christian community as there are people in the world or stars in the sky. Think about it my fellow christians, God's WORDS according to the bible were not only translated from another language, they were transcribed hundreds of years after the fact. How do we know that they were translated accurately? This was probably the first instance of the childhood game of telephone! Some people take the bible literally, some take it metaphorically. I tend to believe Father Guido Sarducci ( catholic comic of the 70's) more than I believe the written 'WORD OF GOD'. Father Sarducci thinks that Moses being an old frail man may have dropped the ten commandments on his way down the mountain and only remembered the bad ones like don't do this and don't do that. He thinks God was more instructional and helpful and the commandments for "wash your hands after using the toilet" and "wait 1 hour after eating to go swimming" were lost!!
It's wonderful that an atheist would start such a post. Maybe he was lead by the Spirit within to do so.
I love your post Beth.
A believing non sinner are we?
Or are you getting your asbestos suit on?
So you contend god doesn't kick out human souls, but he does boot angels created perfect from heaven? Strange how a perfect creation of god was flawed enough to be tempted by sin god also created. Who tempted and broke through god's perfect creation, if not god himself? Otherwise it seems something more powerful than your god managed to corrupt Satan's perfection.
Glad to hear your explanation.
Hmmmm. I see not many posters want to weigh in on the gluttony sin. If a christian continues to eat more food than their body requires they, are ignoring their own sins as being trivial while focusing on the shortcomings of others as being worse. What's the excuse believers?
Lol, I hope you are not assuming I am obese.
I agree gluttony is a sin. I don't glut down more food than the body requires.It doesn't matter to whom? I actually didn't expect you answer my question truthfully. You're a christian. Why do you resist answering this particular question which YOU judge (or perhaps you prefer the word discern) ridiculous? Unless of course, it hits too close to home. Ever hit the all-you-can-eat buffet on Sunday after church, Woc?
Lol, you sure are having a lot of fun ridiculing me. How very childish and immature. Don't get irritated with me because I choose not to answer your questions. It's more fun to me to allow you to wonder.
Have a good day Randy.How is asking questions ridicule, WOC? I've not accused you of anything. But your refusal to answer my questions tells me all I need to know. You would not be afraid to answer unless you didn't like the answer you would truthfully have to give, is the only reason I can see for your response.
But feel free to enlighten me if I'm mistaken. Unlike you, I will not judge/discern your questions as ridiculous simply because I dislike them. But then, I'm not a believer.You know exactly what I am referring to . Please don't play dumb. "Ever hit the all-you-can-eat buffet after church on Sunday, WOC?' I am aware of sneaky mockery games when I see them. Why ask this question when I have previously told you I don't overeat? I have no reason to lie. It's not polite to stereotype. You say that christians do not speak the truth on the sly. I think you now know my reason for not answering all your questions. Fear is not the reason. Thanks for twisting things as usual. I'm not mad at you.
I didn't accuse you of overeating, WOC. I simply asked if you've ever been to a buffet after Sunday service. This was merely a lead up to asking if you'd ever witnessed any obese brothers and sisters in Jesus ignoring the sin of gluttony.
And no, I have no idea why you refuse to answer my questions, especially if you've nothing to be afraid of. I have no need to twist anything. The truth is sufficient for me.
I'm not angry either. I've grown up around fundamentalists and learned to not take them very seriously.
There is no excuse for hypocrisy,by the way its annoying to Christians too
oops I will own that statement ,its annoying to me
Like: Take thine own doughnut out of thine own hand buddy,before you attempt to take the shortcomings out of mineKiwi, Agreed.
Hypocrisy is okay as long as no one mentions it to the hypocrite.
"Go forth and attend the buffets no more". Yeah right, attend any local Sunday buffet and see how many of "god's chosen" are keeping the day holy. What a joke.Mention, challenge it,just dont call me chubby
(Im not)In today's world, being referred to as "chubby" is often preferable to the real description of some folk.
Yes, but do the churches actually actively discourage gluttony? apparently not as we have more "chubby folks here than ever before. Even young children are not prohibited from overeating by many churches, or at least from the pulpit. Especially if the pastor is obviously guilty of the sin himself.
Really couldnt guess the stats on that one.To be honest obesity is across the board though irrespective of nationality ,status or religion.
To be fair though ,accepting Christ as your saviour doesnt mean 'instant transformation' a changed heart is just that -changing day by day (hopefully). Every individual is unique and so too is their growth.
That doesnt mean I am naive and accept every preacher as being God in the flesh ,nope,no sir...If the apple tree aint growing apples, I move on
On a serious note:
My heart longs for many more older women to show and teach younger women how to be better mothers-for men to be shown how to be good husbands
For children to serve their elders etc..
People care I know ,but collectively Im not so sure anymore.Well stated Kiwi.
Are you suggesting obesity comes from thin air, BO? Or overeating?
Is gluttony a sin in the KJV, or not?
Hey Randy
A fat ,dope smoking ,cheating whoremonger calling himself/herself a Christian,doesnt mean God doesnt exist anymore than a person wearing a white coat calls himself a Doctor. Do we quit going to reputable Doctors because quacks claim to cure cancer? But how does one tell if a preacher is reputable? There is no way to question the souls he helped save after they're dead? Not so for doctors who lose many patients or have been convicted of malpractice.
Some even still believe Jimmy Swaggart is a man of god.
Only if you haven't been worshiping the wrong god.
But my odds are still going to be better than if I had accepted 'No-one"
Isnt this pic so cool!!!*smiles* I think I have had this argument before
Now he's going to say "unless you angered the real god more by worshiping a fake god than by not worshiping any god.
Hi Kiwi, how you doing?You have to know how many millions of gods there are first. Ah, so using your logic, it's safer to worship dozens of gods to increase the odds, EK.
Thanks for the tip!
Oh the pic. Let me guess...Eagle Knievel?No you dont have to know every god,just your own heart
(Actually God is the one who calls you...) but thats probably another topic.
Oh you know the pic?...I just came across it some place.
Love the eagle and the colours are so vibrant.But you were talkin' odds and.....well, never mind. I forget you guys are hanging upside down all of the time.
No, I don't know the picture. I was making a joke about Evel Knievel. You know, the motorcycle stuntman who wore the American flag leather suit similar to the eagle in your pic.
- Sherlock221bposted 13 years ago
0George Bush??? Ohhhhhh I thought it was George Clooney
And I think ya put the Iron lady in the wrong heaven.
p.s Please swap the Georges,before I get thereI'd be looking to drink my drink in peace... As I am so happily married that I'm damn near giddy about it
And I am fabulous
Hi naararocks, Amen.
My older brother is gay, and I don't perceive what he does as sinning, at all.
If it is a sin, then why did GOD make my brother that way?
Instead of punishing people, like my brother, your God should be explaining his nonsense.
BTW, I knew you would disregard my last sentence, because it speaks the truth about religion.
Imagine that. A religion that hates the truth!
Nope, you got me wrong.
I'm not pulling my hair out for no one to change. How one chooses to live is their decision. I love the truth. You're the one who is afraid of it, so don't twist it around on me. God did not make your brother that way. Blaming God again? God also did not make anyone a thief, murderer, adulterer, etc. It's all about taking responsibility for one's own action.
Fortunately for the both of us, hell and damnation don't really exist.
You say life style. Are you reading any posts by the people here who tell you they are homosexual? Are you calling all of them liers?
I know you mean no harm, but you are doing it. I think you might believe you are showing your god that you love him by this constant refusal to live and let live. But it is coming across as something totally different.On the contrary, Ive always said its a matter of choice.
I too ,am free to make choices.
@ Emile
You do me a great disservice by speaking for other people!
If I am going to call someone a liar, I will.
But I havent
So dont cause dissension by insinuating that I might be Emile
There have been many times I have explained that I prefer to obey the commandment ..the greatest one actually ...to love
everyone.
Perhaps it would be more constructive to quote those things.
I guess my biggest mistake is answering questions that some people ask ,when they obviously have their minds made up and just need a scapegoat to vent.
Head games.
And Emile now that you have expressed your opinion ,dont run away and hide.
I dont bite
Same here Kiwi.
I love to please God also. God will deliver and set people free.
Which is precisely why I never pasted a site who refuted claims that there was some different brain activity that may or may not predict homosexuality.
Perhaps we are both right ,or both wrong.Never the less,always at the bottom of what 'we' think is the truth is the fact that we all must exist and do the very best with the knowledge that is available to us all.
And then whether we progress to enquiring spiritual matters (which Im sure we all do ,at sometimes) it will ultimately between individuals and their God.
Life is to short to be mean and unloving.
And for me that includes loving the one who loves me best.Hey, Sherlock.
First of all, my perspective is that I don't really care if the 6 days is literal or figurative. It's simply not an important part of Christian theology from my perspective. I understand it's deeply important to some people but I don't really get it.
I understand that Christians can be a little on the stubborn side. This is equally true of non-Christians. About evidence, it sounds like your perspective is that evidence is proof. That's simply not the case. Evidence is one or more reasons to believe something is true but it is not the same thing as proof. Evidence is not necessarily conclusive. Each person has to weigh the evidence and decide what they believe is true. I think this is certainly the case for macroevolution, which is really more of a hypothesis with inconclusive evidence. The funny thing is that there's plenty of evidence that Jesus is who He said He is but non-Christians never want to hear about it. So I feel your pain. While some Christians may be biased against even discussing the evidence for evolution, many non-Christians are every bit as biased about discussing the evidence for Jesus as the Messiah. We're very polarized around these issues in much the same way that we are polarized around political issues in this country.
At the end of the day, each person just has to decide for themselves. It's as simple as that.
Bible Thumpers...
I am soooooo using that word from now on....
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