Why do Christians have a problem with Homosexuals?
Ok I usually avoid religious forums like a plague but after my last thread about a certain lesbian woman, it just gave me an idea for another thread
I mean its not just in the hub forums.. its everywhere. But looking at the hub forums it seems Christians always have to have a go at someone or anything that has to so with homosexuals.. So far I haven't seen a Muslim, Buddhist or an atheist have a go at the gays (I may be mistaken)
I just want to clarify that homosexuality is not something that just showed up in the 20th and 21st Century. If you read your bible you will find that it starts off way in the beginning of creation in the days after Cain kills Abel.
Yes it's odd that one man may find another man attractive but you guys need to understand the philosophy of "Free Will" God gave every person the choice to decide what they want. This is what makes man a supreme being because we are the only ones with that power.. power of choice. Angels and demons and Aliens have no choice which is why they envy us..
So if one man chooses to be gay what right has another one have in condemning his choice?? I mean am not gay, and I do feel sad for people that are gay but I respect their choice and love them and treat them the same way as I would treat a straight person.
So if Christians today just learnt how to actually spread love and not condemn and try and stuff people's throat with "truth" then maybe people will be a little bit more receptive to what you have to say.
So I appeal to you so called Christians.. Stop bashing the gays and lesbians.. they are people just like you and God sees us all the same. Let God be the judge of them and your duty as a Christian is to pray for them and love them.. Period.There are none.
There are, however, 5 instances in which Christ condemns divorce.
See if any of the evangelicals blast divorce and try to render it illegal.
Some things are just spiritual common sense.
If sex outside of marriage is a no no and societies condemned same sex marriage around the world, then safe to assume that lesbianism would fall under the same category as no no. Societies used to be a fairly good indicator of what god pretty much basically wants, although you could argue that but some of what i just said applies.
Just recently same sex marriage is being okayed, but god doesn't change his morales to fit society. In fact a great turning away is predicted before the end times and we see this happening as society enlarges is borders about what is right and wrong. God does not play along with what the governor of california thinks.
No debate is really needed. The reason i don't pray for an answer to this question is because i am not stumped and nor do i sway on the spiritual application involved.
God did demand the death of homosexuals in the OT. Fleshly desires was judged both harshly and immediately back then but nontheless, dealt with, just because there is no pillar of fire or manna falling from the sky or an highpriest governing our country does not mean that judgment is not on the horizon or that god has lessened his principles. A thief will get the same treatment as a liar and as all unsaved who know not god. But not just yet, God will give enough time for the sinner to repent, but repent the sinner must. I really enjoyed cigarettes before i got saved but my life must change, its not always easy but its always for the better. A woman may love a woman but when you have to add toys to give what the man has you can see that it is not gods best intention for holiness and spirituality.
just sayin
Maddie, you're so much more concise than I am
"Why do Christians have a problem with Homosexuals?"
Because they are judgmental hypocrites with no moral code who gain a false sense of personal power from attacking other people who are different.
They have given up all real personal power to the invisible super Daddy in the sky. Now they can spend their energy attacking others instead of dealing with their internal inadequacies.
They have no morals. None.
@-Mark- You committed the common strawman of God which easy to blow down so I guess you win. How do account for morals from purely materialistic worldview? How do you justify it. If it's all a matter of opinion why are you here and how can honestly say you're right when history, facts, and common sense go against your opinion.
@- FW The ad hominem fallacy you've committed is typical, but I'll work around it. We have free will and can use it to obey God's law(repent and trust) or ignore it(do whatever you want), but ignoring God's law has consequences earthly and eternal. God created us separate from the animals, animals are not moral beings they do no have a conscience. If you have to look down in the animals kingdom from an example on how to live your life that's a problem because eat their young and their own poop. The end of your rant consist of argument by emotive language, you're unable the deal with my arguments so unleash harsh words to appeal to the emotion, not logic(sounds like conviction to me) You stated "I'm not impressed", well I'm not surprised.I did no such thing. This is what I said and you are living proof.
As to your question - easy - morals are something we come to by consensus that allow us to live harmoniously with our neighbors. Morals are adaptable; flexible to suit the situation. They are not written in stone.
What was moral yesterday is not necessarily so today.
Are you saying that people cannot follow a moral code without pretending there is an invisible super Daddy in the sky?
Because I do not see believers behaving any better than non-believers.Oh yes you did, and you do it all the time. Definition of stawman-attacking an exaggerated or caricatured version of your opponent's position or belief
“sky daddy” “invisible super Daddy in the sky,” “sky fairy,” “magic man in the sky,” so yes all of your best "arguments" fall under one BIG fallacy.
“morals are something we come to by consensus”
Oh okay there are people who by consensus agree that eating their enemies after killing them is moral and right, does that make it right?
In parts of the world people believe you must cut off a 10 year old boy privates in order to have a great harvest. Is that moral?
“Morals are adaptable; flexible to suit the situation. They are not written in stone. What was moral yesterday is not necessarily so today.”
You’ve committed another fallacy here called reifying. Your abstract thinking here is nowhere near concrete. You supplied no evidence or realistic examples that state there are no objective morals, you’ve simply stated morals adapt, which is nowhere based in law, practice, or reality. Your abstract and imaginary ideas looses ground when someone you love is senselessly murdered or someone steals something you worked very hard to earn.
“Are you saying that people cannot follow a moral code without pretending there is an invisible super Daddy in the sky?”
More straw and no I’m not saying you can’t be moral without God, of course you can. In fact that’s exactly what we would expect if the God of the bible were the One True God. Hebrews 8 “I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts:”, but the atheist can’t justify their moral behavior it’s not consistent with their materialistic worldview.
As for your final remark, according to the study conducted by the Barna Group
“Christians are far more likely than atheists to be part of groups that work hard to instill values about being good to other people, and having good relationships. The teachings of the Bible emphasize values such as honesty, love, forgiveness, sexual fidelity, patience, and generosity. In addition, all Christian denominations strongly discourage negative behaviors, such as fornication, profanity, gambling, gossiping, retaliation, drunkenness, and lying. Many of these values are not emphasized in social circles dominated by atheists. In theory, atheists can lead moral lives, the absence of an absolute moral foundation probably leads to moral drifting over time. This phenomenon also occurs in Christians who abandon church and Christian fellowship. As a result, the differences in morality between atheists and evangelicals is striking, with atheists being much more prone to viewing pornography, using profanity in public, gossiping, and drunkenness. For the 8 sins surveyed in the Barna study, atheists were nearly 5 times more likely to commit those sins than evangelical Christians. In addition, atheists are much less likely to donate to charities (even secular ones) and perform volunteer services in their communities compared with religious people. So, even though atheists can lead a moral life, on average, they don't measure up. Although it is possible that atheism is not the cause of moral failure, it seems unlikely that there are genetic or other demographic factors that account for the differences in behavior.”
Source: Young Adults and Liberals Struggle with Morality a study conducted by The Barna Group
I gotta run, it's Saturday
aww Spider I think I've just fallen in love with you.. Thanks for standing up for me.. definitely Big Boobie Huggs for you
Ooooh!!! *revels in her Big Boobie Hug* Goodness, it's not often one gets pampered with such a nice pair of boobies!
- There's a disgruntled anti Semite. Appreciate the racism??? Good job!
Are you calling me a racist on the basis of your biblical interpretations?
You just know what you can do with that!-
i heart former religionists !
I'd say that Ernest did indeed leave a VERY positive mark on this community and on many of the folks who met him here.
Rubbish. Disingenuous nonsense that neglects to mention the fact that homosexual sex (sodomy) was illegal in the United States until the 1970/80s when all the laws the Right Wing Kristian Fascists had inserted into the secular law courts were repealed or invalidated.
So - yes - Christians had a problem with homosexuality, were active against homosexuals and were vocal enough to have laws passed against homosexual activity in the past. No need to be vocal about it if you already had it made illegal is there?
And let's face it - you guys were too busy fighting to keep segregation in the 1950/60s.
Lying for Jesus huh?
I thought that was a sin? Oh - that is right...
Do as I say. Not as I do is one of them Christian values you cherish.
Demonic attack?
You do not know what is best for me.Odd that you do not acknowledge the admonitions against homosexuality in the bible. Written 1800 years ago.
Odd that you do not acknowledge the Christian influences on the secular laws against homosexuality.
Odd that you do not remember Oscar Wilde, Dorian Grey, Walt Whitman.
Odd that you choose to ignore the murder of accused homosexuals during the Inquisition.
Sure - Christians have only started to speak against homosexuals recently. Dear me.
No morals. None. That is the problem with your religion. It teaches you to lie to defend the faith regardless. Liars for Jesus. Sad - no even worse - politics - is what this is.
Bring back the good old days when Christians never said a word against homosexuals because they had managed to make it illegal huh?
I mean - are you genuinely ignorant of the history of abuse against homosexuals by people who hold your values dear?
Are you really that ignorant?Ah - insults. Yup you are a real Christian. Not sure what exactly I did not comprehend about this particular statement:
Sorry I have shown it to be untrue. Still - you keep on pretending it is.
ciao
Why do you hate god so much?
Lets forget about God and live our life in freedom!
For Christ's sake !! I think that real Christians love their neighbour - it is only the ones who have darkness in their heart that point out other people "They who shout loudest about the sins of others do so to conceal their own sins"
- A Texanposted 14 years ago
0Hey Texan, are you trying to get out of your marriage? You want two lesbians, are they to convert your wife? Thus, allowing you out of the marriage?
just kidding There can only be one reason to gain the answer.
It's biological. It is completely rational for man and woman, to be attracted to one another, however, for growth of the civilization it's scripted to discourage homosexuality because it makes no sense. It's human nature to mate, create more life and live on through generation after generation of a family line.
To live a life of homosexuality directly violates everything known about human biology and growth of the human race. It out-right defies evolution of the human species.
The only problem here is views/perspectives/perceptions made by others. To properly understand life, is to know that you want to have an eternal life and find happiness/love. This is done by understanding how the body works, learning a civilized way to live life, with family values and a moral fiber of good.
It requires mating with someone of the opposite sex, so offspring can be made. It isn't possible for same sex genders to mate for life, because it defeats one of the meanings of being human.
I'm not saying anything against gays or lesbians. I'm simply trying to make everyone understand that it's a perception? It's this pathetic view that keeps homosexuality an issue.
There is no god and no sin. These are both religious terms. Other than a dictionary, you will not find them anywhere else, but religious scripture. Any belief based on faith alone, is not a belief as defined by humanity's standards for forming a belief.
I guess my rant is done.
Here you go, have fun.
LMAO
Ok, I generally avoid these threads like the plague... but I'm having a crazy kind of day, so why not. In the spirit of acceptance and "loving thy neighbor" and such... Perhaps we should rephrase the post title too. Not all "Christians have a problem with Homosexuals." (Although I know some may argue that you are not a Christian if you don't take issue with it
) I know a lot of very lovely people who happen to be gay. I also know a lot of very lovely people who happen to be Christian. I even (will wonders never cease 
) know a lot of very lovely people who happen to be gay AND Christian. I don't think that the OP in anyway intended to imply that all Christians have an issue with homosexuality, but its a pet peeve of mine that the two have to be seen as opposing forces. I happen to believe in God and also not give rat's ass who my friends are sleeping with.
Okie dokie... down off my soapbox now.The OT is not only homophobic, it is filled with other neurotic thinking as well, all apparently from god....
- Onusonusposted 14 years ago0
You are being too generous. I think your first statement was more on the money
Which history is this exactly? The system crashes huh? This some special mormon history books that I am too uneducated to read?
And wat a "basic family unit"? One 40 year old guy, Twenty three, 14 year old girls and some kids?
I prefer mine over 15.Awh Mark you've been doing some reading! Thats good, but you should always pray for spiritual guidance in order to come to the right conclusions.
- Brenda Durhamposted 14 years ago0
One member of my family has been married 3 times.
Not religious, must be a bad person. A sinner. A low life even?
You would condemn anyone who does not fit within your interpretation of an interpretation of an interpretation of a book that was never original, the stories had been told since the time of Ra.
Just a pack of lies written by a bunch of lunatics.We have a winner of this years Turnip Award! His capacity for rational thought processes hasn't turnip up yet.
Us breeders procreate not recreate.
Support inbreds! Now you're insulting my family, poophead!
I love everyone of you and you don't have to believe in anything I believe in there's plenty of room for us all!:)My wife wants to take me to the fishing show so I gots to go! Love you all! Take care and God bless!
True, you can't reason with some people
- Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago0
Exactly, but Brenda has this blind spot....
- A Texanposted 14 years ago0
Well, see, we disagree on a basic premise there. I don't believe there are any asshole babies. I believe being an asshole is a choice. I have assholish tendencies...but I can choose not to act on them.
- so...you are tolerant of gays, then YOU must also be tolerant of the rapist that rapes your daughter???
Some things can be tolerated some things cannot.
Be wise and figure out the difference...there are no easy absolute answers.
I would have thought that being intolerant of intolerance towards others would be the right response.
Intolerant of intolerance?
You're hearing crickets chirping because no one wants to stand up and tell you just how silly your statement is, in that bashing others is not a live and let live philosophy. So, I'll stand up.
Hey...what am I, chopped liver?
He and I had a whole conversation about this...Check it out (a few pages back).
A Texan wrote: I like the live and let live idea too, but, how many of you are for letting gay bashers do their bashing? Would you apply the same live and let live philosophy?
TheGlassSpider wrote: The idea of live and let live is that no one needs to "bash" anyone else. Rational discussion is one thing...even disagreement. But bashing...unnecessary.
- A Texanposted 14 years ago0
I don't care if you are black, white, green, red, gay, straight, drug addict, poor or rich. I will treat you the same as you treat me.
Well said BP.
Oh sure...so since I'm a middle-class, bi-sexual, non-drug addicted Asian, your going to treat me like.... (grinning)
you forgot short bald fat and ugly - what you got against me then
I am 100% with you UW
UW wrote:
"I was always brought up to treat people the way I would like to be treated."
I tried that, but could not find enough people who want to be strapped to a light post naked and lightly whipped with green asparagus stalks.Your next appointment is at 6.35pm.
Yes it comes on strong in the evenings, which is most unfortunate as at that time of day the light pole freezes my vitals!
Haha Earnest oh you are a gem
Couldn't have said it better.
"Christianity is the most 'picked on' but the most tolerant of things. "
hmmm, I just don't see that as a factual statement.
tolerant? look at this thread... the religious forum...rebekahELLE, I was merely making a general reference with regard to the forum topic: Christianities 'problem' with homosexuality.
I don't see how it does have such a problem, since outwardly it is evident that such practices are very active within its organization.
Yet the other religions are not engaged as heavily, in these types of discussions. In fact, it is most notable of in all the religious threads, postings -Christianity is mentioned more than any other regardless of the discussion topic.
Hence my meaning of 'picked on'.
- sneakorocksolidposted 14 years ago0
I have never un derstood why we have to know other peoples bedroom habbits. No one gay or straight should make this topic public. People who choose a gay lifestyle know the social limitations and they know they are not a combination of a man and woman. The issue I have isn't with them or their right to benefits, it's their agenda to ruin marraige and ultimately destroy or ruin what is held sacred by Christians. Their vindictive and rebellious attitude about this topic only causes me to stregthen my resolve against them until they adopt a more moderate position. This is my opinion and I'm entitled to it.
That's a contradiction, just like many of the other contradictions Christians provide here on a daily basis.
Yea, sure. If it came from me, I'd get banned.
Of course, it would appear nonsensical to the religiously indoctrinated, as it shatters the foundations of those religiously indoctrinated beliefs. No amount of insults from you will change that.
When both sides of my face have been slapped, and I've been patient, then it's on! So put on your beret and hop on down to the latin quarter and find a cafe, order a coffee and a pastry, and don't talk when your mouth is full of whatever.
Slapped face? It's on?
Oh - you mean gay people wanting to marry each other? Dear me - that would make your marriage worthless wouldn't it? Well - you better keep attacking them like Jesus said. Jesus must be very proud.
So this attack others when you feel you have been slighted is the new meaning of "turn the other cheek."
Kristians Kausing KonfliktI am not sure your face has been slapped once - let alone twice.
But is that wot the bible sez?
"But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. Should the vile person smite the other cheek - then yea verily - it is on. Deck the Mo Fo."
Coffee was good as was the pastry. It is Bugnes season - we had them after a mountain bike ride.
They are like little, fluffy donuts. Heaven
Sorry.
You ever had these? They are awesome. They only make them around here from February - mid March.
They look great!
I'm not kissing-up to any one read my posts on "what do you know about Mormons." If you think we shouldn't support the side of an issue we feel strongly about, why is it ok for you to support gay rights? We both have the right to support what we believe in that doesn't make us wrong or right it makes us human with the freedom of speech. Tell me why would a gay run company terminate our contract when they found out I was Mormon? They clearly stated they wanted to go a different direction out of the clear blue and my vengeful empolyee told other employees he wanted to hurt me for being so strict. I guess to some people lying and stealing is ok. Just to make it clear he was using the companies credit card to buy gas for his personal vehicle. I knew this because of the date and time on the invoices. We don't have any crews that work on Sunday or at 11pm, go figure, I was just too strict.
We're all different and I decide for myself what is right for me. My wife isn't Mormon she's evangelical Christian we never put each other down but we do tease each other in a very freindly manner. We purposely let our son choose his own way, all we did was love him. I'm not a perfect Mormon or anything but for the purpose of social debate I defend my beliefs as anyone would. If you came to Houston and wanted to visit I would gladly take you to dinner and share a laugh. I would gladly buy you a margarita even though I don't drink. I know we're all different and thats what makes up a world.
Well as it stands the law is equal for all. I can't marry a man but a gay man can marry a woman the same as I can that seems pretty equal. If the law is changed I'll live with it but I don't have to like it.
Well you're talking to a Christian so in the first place I wouldn't have sex outside of marraige. So if I were gay and I couldn't marry I would choose to be celebit. I believe we're not suppose to commit adultry and we're not suppose to covent another mans wife and everybody we have sex with that we don't intend to marry is someone elses partner. So if you're gay or hetero and you're having sex outside of marraige it's obvious the only point you can argue is religion a bunch of bull. So from the Christian perspective you should control your urges unless of course you liken yourself to an animal and don't have any control.
Sorry, I was totally disillutioned when I found out women aren't as interested in sex as men are. I never quite got over the fact they could say no to something that felt that good. That lesson hit me hard after I was married at 19y/o and totally blew me away.(I was pretty nieve about the world of sex all I knew was I liked it, I loved it and wanted more of it:D) So I decided there was no reason to pack up my riffles and fishing poles and stay home all the time. Which at that age I would have gladly done.
- Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago0
i am in NYC, but really, really good pastry is hard to find. especially fresh -from scratch.
we do have a fresh Ukrainian/Lithuanian bakery over here, yum.
i should be the size of a small flat or four heart attacks in from all the butter. - Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago0
Great song! Great message!
ain't that the truth!
- Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago0
That's what I thought...
Ignorant and thinly disguised homophobia is not very scientific in my view.
Next is right!
I've heard they have a vacination for it.
Actually, "addiction" is only seen as a disease because of the pharma companies and the medical industry found a market for their drugs.
An addiction is basically a lack of self-control. Is it due to a chemical imbalance in the body, which cannot be overcome by will, highly doubtful. Simply because of the unknown limits to the human mind and human will, both which cannot be measured.
An addiction, such as cocaine or heroin, or meth or even crack, can be overcame by sheer mind over matter and will of determination to beat it.
As least, that's my take on it. However, this entire conversation is about homosexuality and christians? Both are misconceptions, spun to incite separation of citizens.
But, that's another story altogether and I'm not going to disrupt this forum and get further off topic.
Have a good day and luck with conversation.
Glass I was being my normal self, a smartass!
Oh well...and I was being my normal over-analytical self.
Thats cool! I'm about done with the gay arguements anyway. It always ends in fighting and insults. I like you all too much to take a chance on making an enemy.
- Twenty One Daysposted 14 years ago0
I stated clearly that homosexuality is not a disease or disorder. Chemical imbalances are considered among diseases and disorders and can be diagnosed. Homosexuality cannot.
I think I must not have expressed it clearly, but the Crooks and Baur book has a section within it that reviews the work of many researchers. I merely chose a couple of examples to illustrate here, since this is just a forum and not my personal dissertation platform. In other words, that was only one study. There is MUCH more evidence to back it up and if you would like I would be glad to list all their references, but you'd have to give me some time. There's so many of them, you know.
Also, I think I did clearly address the strange issue of homosexuality being "unnatural". I understand that the majority of humans are heterosexual, but not all of them. Besides that, the whole of nature demonstrates a wide, imaginative range of sexuality and gender--including homosexuality and bisexuality. I don't know how natural you have to have it--it *occurs in nature*?
"No one is born a racist, alcoholic, substance abuser, nymphomaniac, religionista, scientist or even spiritualist." I agree (although some research points to there being a genetic component to substance abuse). What do these things have to do with being born homosexual? Are you saying that all these things are also chemical imbalances?
You're welcome to believe whatever you want. But seriously, at least read recent, well-researched material before you make such generalizations about something like sexual orientation (and I'm not saying my posts here are...grab some of the reference material, it's worth it). It is a very complicated issue, as I mentioned before.
Now you've done it! You have thrown a wrench into the works! Good job!
Welcome to the Hubs.Yo sneak! Thanks dude.
I try real hard not to be insulting. I think I must come off in text as dry and cynical and perhaps insulting
Although it's hard for me to tell...I "hear" myself in a pretty calm tone usually (unless I'm YELLING or something) lolYou come off as being lucid and intelligent. We haven't been on the same side of an issue yet but I'd partner up with you!
- Aww, thank you Same here...We're bound to find some common ground somewhere.
Do you like good food?Gimme a break! I'm a pig!
I'm there! We'll have do a review on favorite dishes! This will be fun! Well it's my bedtime and I have church at 8am so I'm going to say goodnight but we'll definately talk! Good night and God bless.
Great idea!
Good night and God bless you too!
Thank you
I'm glad to hear that. I appreciate it.
- Brenda Durhamposted 14 years ago0
Related Discussions
- 18
Christians, How does Homosexuality have anything to do with you..
Personally that is? Since NC voters have made it clear marriage is between a man and a woman all I hear about is god made a man and a woman, It's a sin, and so on. Even if that were all true how does it have anything to do with you? Why do you care who someone else wants to marry? I don't...
- 238
Homosexuality - Why it should not be slandered.
I am sick of born again Christians on this site saying homosexuality is evil and wrong. I have a couple of good mates who are gay (not with each other) and they are far from evil. I am sick of people saying it is a 'wrong' moral choice when there is plenty of scientific evidence proving that it is...
- 54
Gay people in my family. Inherited? Choice? Victim of circumstances?
I know this is a hot topic, but there are some people in my family (none blood related [that I know of]) That are gay. Some are open, some say they are 'recovering' and some might not have even come out yet.Without being too specific, one member has a child who has effeminate tendencies, and the...
- 940
Will homosexuals go to heaven or hell when they die?
I'm an atheist, but I've always thought that the Bible adamantly condemns homosexuality. Do homosexuals have any chance of getting into heaven? This has always confused me. In God's eyes, is being homosexual any more different than being an adulterer or killing someone? Can homosexuals also be...
- 709
Can homosexuals live a christian lifestyle or is that hypocritical?
There seems to be such a focus in the forums between homosexuality and religion/god that I am now curious about whether or not gay people can be Christians in the same context as straight people can be Christians?
- 14
If science proves that homosexuality is NOT a choice. Where does that leave reli
If science proves that homosexuality is NOT a choice. Where does that leave religion?I ask in this way because if homosexuality is not a choice, then God created homosexuals as they are.