LDS believe Jesus is not good enough to save

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  1. profile image53
    passingthewordposted 9 years ago

    Journal of Discourses 3:247, There is not a man or woman, who violates the covenant made with their God, that will not be required to pay the debt. The blood of Christ will never wipe that out, your own blood must atone for it.
    Journal of Discourses 4:219-220, Be saved and exalted with Gods, is there a man or a woman in this house but would say, “Shed my blood that I may be saved and exalted with Gods?”

    1. A Troubled Man profile image60
      A Troubled Manposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Absolutely not. lol

    2. profile image0
      Onusonusposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Didn't get it the first time? I'll re-post it.
      The LDS church knows very well the principles taught in the Bible in regards to our need for both faith and works in order for the Lord Jesus Christ to permit us to enter into the presence of his father. Not only are these two principles clearly lined out in the bible but also in the book of Mormon; "I say unto you that if ye should serve him who has created you from the beginning, and is preserving you from day to day, by lending you breath, that ye may live and move and do according to your own will, and even supporting you from one moment to another--I say, if ye should serve him with all your whole souls yet ye would be unprofitable servants." (Mosiah 2:21)

      "And [the people] viewed themselves in their own carnal state, even less than the dust of the earth. And they all cried aloud with one voice, saying: O have mercy, and apply the atoning blood of Christ that we may receive forgiveness of our sins, and our hearts may be purified; for we believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who created heaven and earth, and all things; who shall come down among the children of men.

      "And it came to pass that after they had spoken these words the Spirit of the Lord came upon them, and they were filled with joy, having received a remission of their sins, and having peace of conscience, because of the exceeding faith which they had in Jesus Christ who should come, according to the words which king Benjamin had spoken unto them." (Mosiah 4:2-3,)

      "....Wherefore, I know that thou art redeemed, because of the righteousness of thy Redeemer; for thou hast beheld that in the fulness of time he [Jesus Christ] cometh to bring salvation unto men." (2 Nephi 2:3)

      "O remember, remember, my sons, the words which king Benjamin spake unto his people; yea, remember that there is no other way nor means whereby man can be saved, only through the atoning blood of Jesus Christ, who shall come; yea, remember that he cometh to redeem the world." (Helaman 5:9, )

      "O then ye unbelieving, turn ye unto the Lord; cry mightily unto the Father in the name of Jesus, that perhaps ye may be found spotless, pure, fair, and white, having been cleansed by the blood of the Lamb, at that great and last day." (Mormon 9:6, )

      "And if ye believe on [the name of Jesus Christ] ye will repent of all your sins, that thereby ye may have a remission of them through his [Jesus Christ] merits." (Helaman 14:13, )

      It is now abundantly clear that Latter-day Saints believe we are saved through the blood of Jesus Christ and not by our works. The Book of Mormon clearly teaches that we are saved through the righteousness of Jesus Christ, not through our own personal works. Now let's get to the real point of this issue.

      To whom does Jesus' redeeming ransom apply? By performing the atonement, Jesus bought our souls and earned the right to act as the final judge of our eternal destiny. It is very important to note that Jesus determines who and who does not have claim upon the atonement that he made. People should not make the mistake of believing that they can somehow steal redemption from the Lord. If a person wants Jesus to save him, then he must be willing to do what Jesus asks of him. Jesus only offers redemption to those who are willing to become his disciples and keep his commandments. If someone is unwilling to become his disciple, why would he imagine that Jesus will save him? Jesus taught:

      "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love." (John 15:10)

      Does this mean we have to keep every commandment to be saved? No, it is impossible for any man or woman, regardless of his or her intentions, to keep every commandment perfectly. We are imperfect beings and this is why we needed a Savior in the first place. We needed someone to save us from, and in spite of, our imperfections. And that person is the Lord Jesus Christ, the Savior and Redeemer of the world.

      However, the Lord does require us to give our best efforts in following him and keeping his commandments. If we will do so, the Lord will save us through his grace and love. However, if we are unwilling to give our best efforts, we obviously don't value what Jesus did for us. So why would we imagine that the Lord will save us?

      The Doctrine and Covenants teaches:

      "If thou wilt do good, yea, and hold out faithful to the end, thou shalt be saved in the kingdom of God, which is the greatest of all the gifts of God; for there is no gift greater than the gift of salvation." (D&C 6:13)

      "And, if you keep my commandments and endure to the end you shall have eternal life, which gift is the greatest of all the gifts of God." (D&C 14:7)

      People such as yourself always like to pull something that was said from the fringe of Noncanonical writings and throw it to the center of LDS beliefs all for shock and awe.

      1. profile image53
        passingthewordposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        I guess it was the modern day revelation that the early prophets of the church had.  But don't hide the truth from the people. What was supposed to happen to those that turned away from the LDS church? Their throats were supposed to be cut. What was supposed to happen to those of the chosen seed that married the seed of Cain? They were supposed to be killed. Why? Because according to the lds church Jesus’ blood is not good enough.

        1. profile image0
          Emile Rposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          I wouldn't worry about prior teachings in any historical religion. They aren't pertinent to the modern believer.

          I wouldn't worry about current teachings in any religion. People congregate with people they feel comfortable around. Or, they choose an assembly because it contains those they would like to be accepted by.

          Few people embrace the full teachings of any church. Throat slitting will probably be done by the odd man out.

          Anyway, you're fighting a losing battle. Anyone that aspires to rule their own planet in the next life will generally accept a lot of other, seemingly, crazy ideas.

          1. profile image53
            passingthewordposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            what i am trying to do here is expose what the lds church is trying to hide from the new believes.
            People are getting sucked into this cult and they don't know what is behind the door.

    3. emrldphx profile image62
      emrldphxposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      First, do you realize that you aren't referencing official teachings of the LDS church?

      Secondly, do you have any instances of this blood atonement being carried out?

      Thirdly, do you know what covenant he is speaking about?

      I admit my understanding on the topic is sparse, but if you can answer those questions we could probably go from there smile

      1. profile image53
        passingthewordposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        Do you believe that BY was a prophet? if sow you must believe this
        I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call Scripture. Let me have the privilege of correcting a sermon, and it is as good Scripture as they deserve. The people have the oracles of God continually." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 95)
        So the words above (according to the lds church )should be scripture.

        Second do you have instance (whatever that means) of the Golden plates?

        Third what?

        I have grown up in the LDS faith. I now attend BYU so I am not just someone that searches the Internet for sources.

        1. emrldphx profile image62
          emrldphxposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          I'm not talking about my personal beliefs. I'm talking about taking the words of a church member, or a church leader, as official doctrine of that church. I don't know of any LDS prophet who claimed to be perfect.

          Where was this sermon you reference given? Was it a public sermon or some kind of letter?

          So, you're not going to answer my question? The topic is blood atonement, not Golden Plates.

          Your quote talks about a broken covenant. What covenant?

          Ok, you go to BYU. Great. Now can you answer my questions?

          1. profile image53
            passingthewordposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            what you believe is what the LDS church tells you to believe.
            As I said before the words came out of a prophet's mouth that said that all he has spoken is from God. So he claimed that all of his words are perfect, directly from God.

            They were PUBLIC
            Vol 3:247
            A Discourse by President Brigham Young, Delivered in the Tabernacle, Great Salt Lake City, March 16, 1856.
            Reported by G. D. Watt.

            Vol. 13:95
            Remarks by President Brigham Young, delivered in the Tabernacle, Salt Lake City, January 2, 1870.
            Reported by John Grimshaw.
            (They were PUBLIC)

            OK ill answer what you. No i don't have one. But it was taught  (PUBLICLY) you can't deny that

            IT was not my qoute it was BY's. What is your question to me?

  2. skyfire profile image70
    skyfireposted 9 years ago

    File > New File > "Insert Random Religious Data".

    File > Save.

  3. pisean282311 profile image64
    pisean282311posted 9 years ago

    obviously...every one must believe that why only LDS...

  4. MissE profile image80
    MissEposted 9 years ago

    I would have to read those quotes in context.  You can take almost anything, in any religion, out of context and then twist it into something its not. People do it FREQUENTLY.  You go to BYU?  Great.  Do you want a trophy? big_smile

    1. profile image53
      passingthewordposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      do you have one?

  5. MissE profile image80
    MissEposted 9 years ago

    The Journal of Discourses is not an official publication of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It is a compilation of sermons and other materials from the early years of the Church, which were transcribed and then published. It includes practical advice as well as doctrinal discussion, some of which is speculative in nature and some of which is only of historical interest.

    The content of the Journal of Discourses was transcribed, sometimes inaccurately, and published between 1853 and 1886 in England. The compilation contains some statements of doctrine as well as other materials of interest to Latter-day Saints who lived far from the center of the Church, including speeches given for a variety of occasions, funeral addresses, reports from returning missionaries, prayers, and the proceedings of a trial.

    The Journal of Discourses was produced under the guidance of those who transcribed the materials, including George D. Watt, David W. Evans, and George W. Gibbs.

    Skilled in the use of shorthand, George D. Watt had transcribed many conferences and sermons for the Deseret News. He received little pay for his work. Since the Deseret News was not generally available outside of the United States, Watt proposed to Brigham Young the idea of publishing these materials on a subscription basis. Such a plan would make the materials available to more Saints and allow Elder Watt to earn a living with his work. President Brigham Young supported the plan, and a letter from the First Presidency was included in the first volume encouraging Church members to cooperate in the “purchase and sale” of the journal.

    Questions have been raised about the accuracy of some transcriptions. Modern technology and processes were not available for verifying the accuracy of transcriptions, and some significant mistakes have been documented. The Journal of Discourses includes interesting and insightful teachings by early Church leaders; however, by itself it is not an authoritative source of Church doctrine.

    1. profile image53
      passingthewordposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      The LDS church always comes out with new excuses.
      Like i said before, these words came from BY's Mouth. And BY said
      I Have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call Scripture. Let me have the privilege of correcting a sermon, and it is as good Scripture as they deserve. The people have the oracles of God continually." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 95) And what i have shared are all public speeches. So if you are LDS this is what you suppose to believe. If not you are an anti mormon.

      1. profile image53
        passingthewordposted 9 years agoin reply to this

        So you see BY saids that his words came from God. So you must believe all of BY's words because he was a prophet of the lds church.


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