God focus on the action of a person, we focus on the person. God say I hate what you are doing, and we say I hate you. If we could say show me, instead of making all those hateful comments, people would truly understand God.
you say you hate x but dont go and burn x in fire...do u?...that makes u more loving that god of religion...being human is exciting thing than being some religious god
I would love for you to explain the difference between those two?
The actions one takes show what and who that person is truly. If the actions are not out of love, then the person doesn't love themselves. If the actions are not out of love, then the person isn't honest with themselves, and is not honest with others. If their actions are not out of love, thus lacking honesty, then they are also lacking compassion and tolerance.
So, please do explain the difference. I'd love to hear it.
Are you truly interested in hearing or just looking for an argument?
Go ahead, you think you change anything within the statement I left, be my guest, but I can tell you right now, you cannot without including mystical ideology.
But, take your best shot at it.
People love to put labels on everything and everybody. I've gotten the impression a number of times that people want to treat God like he's Santa Claus.
God states he's a loving God so it is clear that God loves but we need to a little further then that. God is at the top which is to say he can't be just a Loving God he has to be more he has to judge what is right and what is wrong. He more then proved that by allowing his on son to die for the people killing his son. He loved us so much he had his son pay our cost for the sins we have committed.
Our own history shows how a king can love his people but he must also enforce the law even when it hurts.
I believe that God's hate is for the evil that men do, and not for the person.
I believe that God's hate is for the evil that men do, and not for the person.
God's hate is different because it is seen coming from a completely perfect and righteous background. Our hate on the other hand comes from a non-perfect and non-righteous background.
Why should God hate anything? If he made everything, then hatred of it seems a little masochistic.
If he is perfect then why would he experience such a flawed, human emotion?
@melissa because writers of religion where capable of hate and their hate got manifested in form of verse in books they wrote...though they thought it is god who hates instead that it is their inner capacity to hate make them write about someone whom they call god with capacity to hate...
Excellent point. Since there is no way to truly know God, or even if he/she exists, we tend to put our own spin on the story. We only know what we have obseved, and all we are capable of observing are human beings who are full of hatred.
How is human emotion flawed? And everything that is today God did not make, only mostly everything.
He didn't make EVERYTHING? Then who/what made everything else?
Human emotion is flawed when the result of that emotion is the pain/suffering of others.
Evil, is what God did not make, and from that many things arose. Human emotion is not flawed, it is the reaction to the emotion that is flawed.
so god is not source of everything which in turn means god is not all powerful as claimed and many things happen without god including evil...finally we have some good news...
Well, your wrong. Just because God cannot create evil, because it is against His nature, does not mean that He cannot do all logical things
god and logic?....hmmmm...so god's logic failed to see that something like evil can come into presence without god himself making it...evil is kind of virus in god's program and instead of flushing that out , god is having fun with it....good old logical god...
Oh, so he created everything good but evil spontaneously appeared out of nowhere. He created the whole universe, except the bad stuff... which was created by...? Still no answer.
He is all-powerful and all knowing, you would have thought he would have stopped that.
Human emotion is flawed, just as humanity is flawed. If you want a perfect God, then stop modeling him after humans.
I'm not trying to get you to stop believing in God, just pointing out that to some of us your logic looks really odd. Sorta like you are believing in a God that, conveniently, believes exactly like you.
God created us with free will. If he didn't we would just be mindless zombies. However, that means we can choose how we act. So, therefore, we can chose good or bad. And you can't stop all evil. If he stopped all evil we would not be able to have free will. You wouldn't even be able to think on your own, because your thoughts could be evil. Where could he draw the line?
God made sex, we perverted it; he made money, we make it our God and become greedy; he gave us life, we corrupt it. Nothing is purely evil. Sex, money, life, power, all these things can either be used in a good way, or evil way. That choice is up to us.
So he created imperfect humans? How can the perfect create the imperfect?
@melissabarrett but that was god's first experiment....its ok to err in that
Evil steamed from the mind of Satan, or Lucifer in the Bible account. It was also brought to earth by him. The question though is how did Satan, an imperfect creature, come from God, a perfect creature? Satan, without a doubt, chose evil over good because of free will. Now free will is the power of choice between good or bad. But evil could not have arisen from Satan even through free will because evil was not before him, and God could not create evil so where did it come from? Evil arose as soon as good arose, evil is the absence of good. Evil does not exist within itself, it only exists when it is attached to a possessor, in the first case this was Satan. You do not choose to do evil, you choose not to do good. Does that make sense to you? I had to condense it and in the process it may have lost some value and understanding.
Then plainly he can't sop any evil, which makes all the begging y'all do rather pointless, doesn't it?
On the other hand, Her Holy Pinkness, the Invisible Pink Unicorn, has told us that She CAN stop evil, but she chooses not to and all the blubbering in the world isn't going to change that. She's callous, but realistic.
He cannot stop evil, by forcing a specific person not to do it but he will judge those that have not accepted His gift of salvation that we understand through the gospel. The gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection. And ultimately this will banish evil.
It does not mean he can't stop ANY evil. But stopping all evil is not possible if we are still to keep free will. We pray, not beg, that he intervenes in our lives as well as others. That he draws them and they listen. He will defeat evil once and for all when he returns. He will take up his children into heaven. There they will be no devil or demons. Hence, no temptation to do wrong. His children will have already prepared there minds. Because that is really where our battle with satan is. If you renew your mind, you will change your life drastically.
The origin of evil is too protractive a topic to be written here, I'm on a tablet. The bad stuff came when the original evil was committed. Bad things are done because of evil corruption of man. Emotion is not flawed only peoples reaction to it. By the way, I am currently writing a hub on the inception of evil, all let u know when it is done.
I stand on the point that God hates the sin and to make the sinner notice of his mistake but God awaits for repentance. God's hate is for His love to mankind but man's hate is rage against fellow man and not about love.
There are many examples in the Old Testament where God would seem to show anger towards mankind. Even to the point of recommending genocide to his followers. It is for this reason, that I cannot believe that any religious book is inspired by God. As God is described as being a god of love, then so much of the Bible needs to be ignored if we are to believe in such a god. As the Bible was written by man, it seems obvious to me that the anger and hatred described as belonging to God is in fact man's way of justifying his own anger and hatred.
I have a question. Why did God demand that Adam and Eve remained ignorant about what was good and bad? Why did he want to keep things from them if, nowadays, religious people say that God wants people to know Him? By knowing the difference between good and bad, they could avoid the 'bad' parts better. Why did God find it wrong?
As I understand it God was looking to see if Adam & Eve would be loyal to him or would they reject God. They chose to reject God so God says you want to be on you're own then go forth no longer under my protection.
I hate these threads
Kidding, it's such an ugly word
If they didn't know what was good and bad, how well could they understand that it was wrong not to do what God said? Plus, if they had done exactly like God wanted them to do, for how long would they remain ignorant until God actually said "Hey, I've been hiding stuff from you just to see if you were loyal. Let me teach you everything again, since you were actually in the dark this whole time"? After that, how could Adam and Eve trust God, if there was an ever present possibility of him hiding information from them just because he's insecure like that?
It isn't certain what their futre or mankind's future would have been like had they trusted God. We would perhaps have never seen a universe, a world as we do today.
Parents don't tell their children everything as their are a number of things children are just going to have to trust their parents abouts. "Jimmy eating those carrots are not going to kill you."
Well, eating carrots (healthily) will not hurt anyone indeed. On the other hand, blocking access to the knowledge of what's good and bad could forever drastically limit mankind's understanding of the world and of life itself, and a good part of the unbelievably huge intellectual capacity God gave us would be wasted. Besides, if kids don't believe that carrots are harmless, they always have the option of researching it themselves. No good parent will ever tell their children that they're not allowed to confirm what they were taught, at least in my perspective.
My parents started teaching me how to read when I was 2 because I wouldn't stop making questions and wasn't always satisfied with their answers. It was the best thing they did for me at that time and I also expect a God to do the best things for me if I deserve it. When Adam and Eve were in their initial perfect state, they certainly deserved it. I can't understand why they were intentionally dumbed down just to get them to stumble more easily. I realize that those detailed explanations are not written in the Bible, so we have to speculate - well, that's another bad idea, in my opinion. Giving room to infinite interpretations of the same verses will not approach people to God, it will only confuse them in the long run.
Life and death do not hate and God is the fact that I am still alive. The true paradise is now, not being next to a mythical image, but the reality that I am alive right now. Living is the miracle, not living for an illusion or for an idea. Just being here is paradise, so then, suffering must be accepted as part of paradise.
In that case, believing or not believing in God is pretty much irrelevant, if, in both situations, all you get is one life to live, with all the joys and pains that come with it. Being connected to God in the way you described makes your life better in what ways? Besides, what reasoning led you to your particular viewpoint on spirituality? I actually appreciate it a lot, even though it doesn't seem founded in anything palpable. I think that spirituality, for those that like it, should be more of a personal matter and not something associated with a particular religion. Judging by what you said, I believe your personal stand on the matter allows for healthy coexistence and mutual respect and, in the end, that is the most important thing I feel that religions have the potential to cause too many divisions in society.
It is the true meaning of the middle way. The science of honestly feeling the self or the mind. One has no choice but to be part of it and no matter what happens, it is great to be hear. I have no religion, just a penchant for truth and the seeking there of.
Yup. I also think that life is a miracle (with or without some kind of God), and I do try to enjoy it, now that I'm learning not to be overwhelmed with too many unanswered questions. I think the most important thing is to not stop making questions, within healthy limits.
It sounds to me like your growing up was pretty good and that good but talking about people around the globe life for them was very different indeed.
Adam & Eve weren't dumbed down it was Adam's job to name all the animals and they knew they were not suppose to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge but they did so anyway. God gave them a test and they fail. God gave Abraham a test and he passed.
Why was Abraham's test so much harder if he was imperfect? God asked him to sacrifice a human life, which was not even that of a stranger, but of his only son. Adam and Eve were only asked to be selective about their diet, and yet, they were perfect. Same thing with Job, an imperfect man. He was completely wrecked just to prove his loyalty. On the other hand, Moses did several great things, but then was not allowed to see the promised land he spent decades looking for because of a somewhat minor mistake when he was asked to take water out of a rock. Peter lied and denied Jesus several times just to protect himself and I don't remember anything serious happening to him.
It wasn't about being selective about their diet... it was about obedience... God was just asking them to obey him
Those are some pretty different and strange ways of asking - that is what I wanted to say and I was hoping you would understand it. I know the ultimate purpose wasn't for them to eat in a certain way, but to prove obedience. I want to understand what made God be so unpredictable and possibly unfair (in my imperfect human eyes) in his choices concerning the kind of tests he made. You also didn't explain anything about the situations with Moses and Peter (you don't have to. You can just pick the questions you can answer and ignore the rest. It's what I do, lol)
People on the surface can look like they care about God but until we go undearneath one of God's test there will be no doubt as to where our loyalities lie. God is at the top and so he only can decide who and when he is going to test. If someone came into your home do they dictate to you what you can do in your own home or is that up to you?
Every choice one makes affects the future in many unforseeable ways. This is to say that the future is created by the choices one makes now. God is the result of not understanding why we are and not understanding now. Now is all we have, the past was only part of the learning curve. We either use that knowledge for something constructive or we dwell on the illusion that we actually know something we do not.
You are right in number of ways but did God not say he knows the beginning from the end?
God understood enough a long time ago to say that mankind is against him, that more people will be on the path to hell rather then heaven?
I am not arguing with your belief. What I am saying is that the future does not exist and the past no longer exists. God is now and is a concept of the minds need to understand the why of things. This can also be said of science. This is to say, that everything we do to understand why, we only get further from the the truth of it. Why we are here is only known by the oranism of now and everything comes out it into now. Creation is now, what I am doing is now and God is now. We cannot be sure of what is to happen and dwelling on preconcieved notions, only leads to more confusion.
What kind of silliness are you trying to drum into people's heads?
the "now" is too fleeting to be permanent. Other things DO indeed exist. You as well as I and everyone else have memories of the past and (hopefully) hope for the future. If you want to live just totally in the "now", you might as well stop trying, because time DOES exist, and you're in it. Don't overdrive your headlights though!
I have let go of myself and am just being as I am. I pay no heed to time for right now is now. I have learned from the past, but the past is not now. I do not worry about the future because, the future is not now. I accept that there is a future and that there was a past, but they do not matter. Any inclination I have towards past and future does not matter, for they do not exist in the now. I have found a peace of mind and I think it eases that much suffering. I will still have pain and I will still feel loss, but I cannot let that stop me from being, for I have no choice. This is to say that, reality is what it is and I am part of it. I just have to be able to accept it and then, it is that much easier to move forward.
Probably the closest thing to what you describe would be....sleep. For a person who's asleep, the "now" is all there is. (But even that doesn't exactly fit the definition really).
Are you asleep? lol.
We have to wake up sometimes and sometime.
How do you know if you are not asleep now? To let go of the illusion of self, one wakes up and is now. I cannot explain it to you, for it is up to you to wake up, so therfor, I can only point you in a direction. It is your choice if you want to move in that direction or not. Just as religion is a choice and science is a choice and neither will answer the question of why. Why is the question that I have let go of and in turn I can see things as they are, not as I want them to be. Want is an illusion and so am I and myself.
Well, let's see. I have a cat whining for attention. Two actually. One is outside in the rain so I should go let it in the garage and feed it. The other is my kitty BB who sleeps on my shoulder; he wants to go back to sleep but I need to do housework. So he will have to go back to sleep by himself.
Want is not an illusion. I want to wake you up, but since I can't literally shake your shoulder, I'll assume you're physically awake and just yell through the screen-----WAKE UP mischeivousme! haha. There is a big world around you that requires your attention if you want to actually see the reality of "now"!
The illusion is that it pertains to me. "I" is the illusion because it does not exist. The future can be changed because it does not exist. I may be angry about something or confused by another. If I accept it as it is, I can make it easier to understand, because I am not worried about it. Worry creates a form of panic in a sense and that fact that we think we know certain things creates even more confusion and panic. If I don't do this, the future will be bleak, this is an exapmle of panicking over something we do not understand. If I can see it as it is, I can adjust myself accordingly to it. This is to say, that things of importance, may not be as important as I think they are. I clean my house, not because I have to but because I like to live cleanly. Does a cat not do the same? A cat is in the now for it only knows life and death and whether or not that it is hungry. Now is reality, not yesterday and not tomorrow.
What would happen if you didn't clean your house?
Seriously, I think you clean house not because you like a clean house, but for the same reason I do, because you know that in the future (tomorrow, the next day, or whenever) there will be consequences if you don't clean. You'll have to eat from a dirty dish or walk on a dirty floor or you'll find yourself in a "hoarding" situation where you can't find items you need at the time. Consequences. Responsibility. Those are aspects of life. There is the "now". And there is the past, and there is the future.
The past was a reality a second ago, it is not a reality now. The future is a reality a scond from now, it is not a reality now. If I do not clean now, then the future will be affected by my not doing now. The future is indeterminable, which is to say that, I cannot be sure. The past has happened and is nothing more than the result of clinging to it. I must learn from the past for it is useful to do so, this does not mean that I should live in it.
Fortunately, God said he could see our insides, all the way down to our kidneys. Why would he need tests to check something he can see whenever he wants? Instead of doing that and then punishing those who fail, why doesn't he try to fix people that lose their way?
There are so many points on here that are missing. Each one requires a chapter to tell the obvious. Gods hate is different and that is the whole point. Free will and making the decision to serve Gods purpose or your purpose is the first point. Serving yourself or Earthly interest is the abomination and yes entire faiths have enlisted Gods will based on Earthly agendas and purpose. Like this argument they have failed to separate Earthly purpose from heavenly purpose. Seeking Earthly purpose and attempting to explain Gods purpose on such terms is where this argument is lost. When you do not serve Gods purpose then you our pretending to be something else and that is the difference in hate. It is not the person or the abomination that he hates but what they do that he hates.
Rules don't apply to God. Rules are for man. We are a reflection of our creator, like the Mona Lisa is a reflection of DaVinci. The emotions inherent in Man's personality are identical to the emotions which God displays. The major difference is: That, in God, everything happens for a reason. While Man can totally destroy...just for the sheer fun of it.
Ok. Rules don't apply to God. In that case, he can do whatever he wants. Why do we assume that he will always do the good things and not the bad ones? If Adam and Eve were perfect and managed to do something evil, just like Satan was perfect and then became evil, how can we be sure that God, despite being perfect, will never be anything but good and fair to us? Rules don't apply to him.
Jesus said that God makes it rain on the wicked and the good. Here it is, literally from the horse's mouth. He also makes the sun shine on the wicked and the good. That's why good things happen to bad people, and why bad things happen to good ones. People tend to think that God or believing in God is like having a genii in a bottle. Not in the slightest. The more you endure, the greater the reward. The less you focus on here, the more you will have beyond this life.
You said good things and bad things happen to bad and good people, you didn't say that God caused them. In fact, what I hear most of the time is that God simply allows those things to happen, but he doesn't cause them himself. What I was asking was how can we be so sure that God is inherently good and would never actually cause us pain just because he thinks it would be good entertainment? It's not like he couldn't deceive us and say it was Satan making all the mess. After all, he's God.
Good and bad things happen. We just like to tack on a meaning to it, so that we can better understand it. The problem with this way of thinking, is that it is counter productive. If I don't accept it as it is, I may never truly move forward with my life and will constantly be at the mercy of my own common sense. If one believes in karma, they will say that it is karma that a bad thing happened to them. Karma doesn't happen, it is. The historical translation of karma can be said like this. Karma is life, good and bad, it is the same thing.
THIS IS A TEST> THIS IS ONLY A TEST> Please stay tuned to your emergency broadcast station. Cause and effect demands that coincidences simply do not exist. Stuff doesn't simply "happen". We are living on a dynamic world. Air, land and sea contribute to those dynamics, and our existence here would not happen except for those dynamics. The rain I speak of is not just the physical rain, so as to storms, earthquakes or total mental breakdowns...everything was created to do exactly what it does. Because of the nature of the creating force, and the nature of the creation itself, all things had to be done in Man. Once we tasted of knowledge and moved beyond the lower animals. It is written that God is the AUTHOR of all things, good and evil. The idea is that evil is beyond simply a bad thing, and in truth, the only evil which is addressed is the evil that one consciously aware, thinking, civilized, being can perpetrate against his or her own kind. And MM. Actually, Karma is the ripple effect which happens when the disturbance in one soul touches any other soul. If something good that I do has a positive ripple on the waters of your personal being, then it can be called good Karma. Same if I do a bad thing, but with a negative ripple. Everything we do causes these ripples, and the effect can move beyond the waters of that first ripple, and the force, good or bad can increase, like a tidal wave, until those ripples have changed the entire landscape of many souls. One persons actions can cause total destruction.
The chaos theory only applies to the natural world of which there are constants. Good and bad are part of a natural cycle, which we cannot avoid. This does not mean it was meant to happen, so much as it is part of the learning process. Karma is a part of everything, in the sense that good and bad happen to us all. As long as we live in an ego driven society, this good and bad will be a result of personal desire. Desire is not karma, karma is, just as life is and cannot be explained by the bumbling words of our mind.
Ah, Grasshopper, you have touched the threshold of the fifth level! Now you must learn:Wax on, Whacks off. Always keep both sides in balance. Too much whacks off will make you go blind!
Lol. If I do not shut my mind off from time to time, I will see what is, and what is not, will not matter. Let go of whatever you are grasping on to. Things are what they are. When you see them, you see your self. You can joke and tread and discriminate, but that will not make this any easier for you. Let light the burden you carry and be mindful.
I think there is a reason for everything and no such thing as no reason at all. One is man blaming God for what man does and God has nothing to do with such things but only the out come. The other is our failure to actually understand what is actually so called good or bad things that are happening to us. If we determine a good thing as being rich or poor we have to ask ourselves does this really matter in heaven or is it purely an Earthly ideal? If your wealth is keeping you in hell then your poverty might teach you how to stay out of hell. When you separate the Earthly agendas from those in Heaven you begin to see a huge difference and yes many believers miss this point by a mile. In fact there are a lot of churches I stay out of because I do not want to go to hell with them.
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