what Quran says about Jesus and Mary

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   daeemominposted 15 years ago

   Kaf. Ha. Ya. 'Ain. Sad.
   (This is) a recital of the Mercy of thy Lord to His servant Zakariya.
   Behold! he cried to his Lord in secret,
   Praying: "O my Lord! infirm indeed are my bones, and the hair of my head doth glisten with grey: but never am I unblest, O my Lord, in my prayer to Thee!
   "Now I fear (what) my relatives (and colleagues) (will do) after me: but my wife is barren: so give me an heir as from Thyself,-
   "(One that) will (truly) represent me, and represent the posterity of Jacob; and make him, O my Lord! one with whom Thou art well-pleased!"
   (His prayer was answered): "O Zakariya! We give thee good news of a son: His name shall be Yahya: on none by that name have We conferred distinction before."
   He said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son, when my wife is barren and I have grown quite decrepit from old age?"
   He said: "So (it will be) thy Lord saith, 'that is easy for Me: I did indeed create thee before, when thou hadst been nothing!'"
   (Zakariya) said: "O my Lord! give me a Sign." "Thy Sign," was the answer, "Shall be that thou shalt speak to no man for three nights, although thou art not dumb."
   So Zakariya came out to his people from him chamber: He told them by signs to celebrate Allah.s praises in the morning and in the evening.
   (To his son came the command): "O Yahya! take hold of the Book with might": and We gave him Wisdom even as a youth,
   And piety (for all creatures) as from Us, and purity: He was devout,
   And kind to his parents, and he was not overbearing or rebellious.
   So Peace on him the day he was born, the day that he dies, and the day that he will be raised up to life (again)!
   Relate in the Book (the story of) Mary, when she withdrew from her family to a place in the East.
   She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then We sent her our angel, and he appeared before her as a man in all respects.
   She said: "I seek refuge from thee to ((Allah)) Most Gracious: (come not near) if thou dost fear Allah."
   He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son.
   She said: "How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?"
   He said: "So (it will be): Thy Lord saith, 'that is easy for Me: and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us':It is a matter (so) decreed."
   So she conceived him, and she retired with him to a remote place.
   And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm-tree: She cried (in her anguish): "Ah! would that I had died before this! would that I had been a thing forgotten and out of sight!"
   But (a voice) cried to her from beneath the (palm-tree): "Grieve not! for thy Lord hath provided a rivulet beneath thee;
   "And shake towards thyself the trunk of the palm-tree: It will let fall fresh ripe dates upon thee.
   "So eat and drink and cool (thine) eye. And if thou dost see any man, say, 'I have vowed a fast to ((Allah)) Most Gracious, and this day will I enter into not talk with any human being'"
   At length she brought the (babe) to her people, carrying him (in her arms). They said: "O Mary! truly an amazing thing hast thou brought!
   "O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!"
   But she pointed to the babe. They said: "How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?"
   He said: "I am indeed a servant of Allah. He hath given me revelation and made me a prophet;
   "And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live;
   "(He) hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable;
   "So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"!
   Such (was) Jesus the son of Mary: (it is) a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute.
   It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! when He determines a matter, He only says to it, "Be", and it is.
   Verily Allah is my Lord and your Lord: Him therefore serve ye: this is a Way that is straight.
   But the sects differ among themselves: and woe to the unbelievers because of the (coming) Judgment of a Momentous Day!
   How plainly will they see and hear, the Day that they will appear before Us! but the unjust today are in error manifest!
   But warn them of the Day of Distress, when the matter will be determined: for (behold,) they are negligent and they do not believe!
   It is We Who will inherit the earth, and all beings thereon: to Us will they all be returned.
   
   (Chapter:19 Maryan (Marry)  verses: 1-40)

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      Make Moneyposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Oh wow, look what this wikipedia says about Yahya ibn Zakariyya.
      
      
      
      It's the same story about Zachary and his son John the Baptist that is in the Bible in the first part of Luke 1.

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2. 68

   Make Moneyposted 15 years ago

   This is very similar to two stories in the Bible from Luke 1.
   
   The conception of John the Baptist.
   
   
   
   The conception of Jesus.
   
   
   
   These are beautiful stories.  But daeemomin I am afraid they were written by Luke at least 500 years before the Quran was written.
   
   We see that Zachary's wife Elizabeth was also Mary's cousin.  It does not do Luke's first chapter justice without mentioning the rest of the chapter because from it we see what happened during Mary's visitation to her cousin Elizabeth and Zachary's canticle after he was no longer dumb.  We also get from this chapter Mary's canticle as well as the prayer, Hail Mary.  This is one of my favorite chapters in the Bible.
   
   
   
   Thanks daeemomin
   Mike

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   1. 60

      daeemominposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I think you want to say that Quran is a copy of Bible because of some similarities. But the fact is that the similarities between the Qur’an and the Bible do not necessarily mean that the former has been copied from the latter. In fact it gives evidence that both of them are based on a common third source; all divine revelations came from the same source - the one universal God. No matter what human changes were introduced into some of these Judeo-Christian and other older religious scriptures that had distorted their originality, there are some areas that have remained free from distortion and thus are common to many religions.
      It is true that there are some similar parallels between the Qur’an and the Bible but this is not sufficient to accuse Muhummad (pbuh) of compiling or copying from the Bible. The same logic would then also be applicable to teachings of Christianity and Judaism and thus one could wrongly claim that Jesus (pbuh) was not a genuine Prophet (God forbid) and that he simply copied from the Old Testament.
      The similarities between the two signify a common source that is one true God and the continuation of the basic message of monotheism and not that the later prophets have plagiarised from the previous prophets.
      For more see these links:
      http://hubpages.com/hub/Proof-that-Qura … rized-book
      http://hubpages.com/hub/Is-Quran-Plagiarized-from-Bible

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3. 68

   Make Moneyposted 15 years ago

   Well daeemomin you can't deny that they are the same stories.
   
   What you need to ask yourself is why would God send an angel to Mohamed to tell him these stories that happened about 550 years before the angel was sent?
   
   Mike

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      daeemominposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      No, the stories which we find in the Bible are in distorted form, full with contradictions. For the sake of argument if we agree that Quran is a copy of Bible, then according to the same logic Bible must be a copy of previous revelations?
      Your claim that Quran is plagiarized from Bible only shows that you have neither read Bible correctly nor Quran. Quran didn’t copy from the Bible. It rather corrected the Bible. I think you didn’t see the links I referred to.
      I will cite only one example here. See how Quran narrates the story of Prophet Noah in a very decent language and how Bible portrays Prophet Noah.
      Genesis 9:20-24 (King James Version)
      20And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:
      21And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.
      22And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
      23And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.
      24And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
      THIS IS WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT A DIGNIFIED PROPHET. SHAME ON THOSE WHO BELIEVE IT.
      Quran has mentioned about Prophet Noah in several chapters. There is a whole chapter (chapter 71 Noah) in Quran about Prophet Noah. See how Quran mentions his endeavor in a respectable manner.
      Quran says:
      “1. We sent Noah to his People (with the Command): "Do thou warn thy People before there comes to them a grievous Penalty." 2. He said: "O my People! I am to you a Warner, clear and open: 3. "That ye should worship Allah, fear Him and obey me: 4. "So He may forgive you your sins and give you respite for a stated Term: for when the Term given by Allah is accomplished, it cannot be put forward: if ye only knew." 5. He said: "O my Lord! I have called to my People night and day: 6. "But my call only increases (their) flight (from the Right). 7. "And every time I have called to them, that Thou mightest forgive them, they have (only) thrust their fingers into their ears, covered themselves up with their garments, grown obstinate, and given themselves up to arrogance. 8. "So I have called to them aloud; 9. "Further I have spoken to them in public and secretly in private, 10. "Saying, 'Ask forgiveness from your Lord; for He is Oft-Forgiving; 11. "'He will send rain to you in abundance; 12. "'Give you increase in wealth and sons; and bestow on you gardens and bestow on you rivers (of flowing water).13. "'What is the matter with you, that ye place not your hope for kindness and long-suffering in Allah,- 14. "'Seeing that it is He that has created you in diverse stages? 15. "'See ye not how Allah has created the seven heavens one above another, 16. "'And made the moon a light in their midst, and made the sun as a (Glorious) Lamp? 17. "'And Allah has produced you from the earth growing (gradually), 18. "'And in the End He will return you into the (earth), and raise you forth (again at the Resurrection)? 19. "'And Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet (spread out), 20. "'That ye may go about therein, in spacious roads.'" 21. Noah said: "O my Lord! They have disobeyed me, but they follow (men) whose wealth and children give them no increase but only Loss. 22. "And they have devised a tremendous Plot. 23. "And they have said (to each other), 'Abandon not your gods: Abandon neither Wadd nor Suwa', neither Yaguth nor Ya'uq, nor Nasr';- 24. "They have already misled many; and grant Thou no increase to the wrong- doers but in straying (from their ark)." 25. Because of their sins they were drowned (in the flood), and were made to enter the Fire (of Punishment): and they found- in lieu of Allah. none to help them. 26. And Noah, said: "O my Lord! Leave not of the Unbelievers, a single one on earth! 27. "For, if Thou dost leave (any of) them, they will but mislead Thy devotees, and they will breed none but wicked ungrateful ones. 28. "O my Lord! Forgive me, my parents, all who enter my house in Faith, and (all) believing men and believing women: and to the wrong-doers grant Thou no increase but in perdition!"”
      Could this be a copy of Bible. Could a copy (i.e., the Qur’an, according to the allegation) correct the claimed original (i.e., Bible)?

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   dingdongposted 15 years ago

   Anyway, stories!

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   aka-djposted 15 years ago

   So, if the Quoran has "corrected" the Bible, then that implies the Bible is wrong or incomplete. Therefore, God made a(mistake). That then relegates Him to the nature of man. This then removes any concept of Holyness.
   So Jesus becomes a lesser prophet than Mohammed, (who was given the final and ultimate revelation).
   My Bible tells me that Jesus died for my sins and rose again from the dead (the Quoran rejects this truth), the very fact that christianity is based on. So, logically speaking, cancells my salvation, which was (incorrectly) taught by the apostles. Now God, through the teachings of Islam brings me the "real truth", that  I am not saved!? Or does that happen if/when I'm martyred? (for Islam? or Christianity?)
   I'm not sure who is more confused, you, me or god?  

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      daeemominposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Yes. Quran corrected the Bible. Bible is wrong and unauthentic. It is not that God revealed it so. But because its originality has been distorted.
      The Preface to the Revised Standard Version (1971) says:
      “Yet the King James Version has grave defects”
      “these defects are so many and so serious as to call for revision”
      The Bible is not the word of God. So if anyone proves that Bible is wrong he doesn’t blame God.
      Dr. W. Graham Scroggie of the MOODY BIBLE INSTITUTE, Chicago, one of the most prestigious Christian Evangelical Mission in the world, answering the question — "Is the Bible the Word of God?" (also the title of his book), under the heading: IT IS HUMAN, YET DIVINE. He says on page 17:
      "..Yes, the Bible is human, although some out of zeal which is not according to knowledge, have denied this. Those books have passed through the minds of men, are written in the language of men, were penned by the hands of men and bear in their style the characteristics of men...."
      Another erudite Christian scholar, Kenneth Cragg, the Anglican Bishop of Jerusalem, says on page 277 of his book, "The Call of the Minaret":
      "Not so the New Testament . . . There is condensation and editing; there is choice, reproduction and witness. The Gospels have come through the mind of the Church behind the authors. They represent experience and history."
      You said and I quote “So Jesus becomes a lesser prophet than Mohammed, (who was given the final and ultimate revelation).”
      It is not so. We make no distinction between one and another of God’s apostles.
      Quran says:
      The Messenger believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believeth in Allah, His angels, His books, and His apostles. "We make no distinction (they say) between one and another of His apostles." And they say: "We hear, and we obey: (We seek) Thy forgiveness, our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys." (Chapter: 2, verse: 285)
      I am not confused. You are confused. Think over it.

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   aka-djposted 15 years ago

   The Bible very clearly teaches the death and resurrection of Jesus. Islam denies it.
   One is right one is wrong. Jesus is portaid as "God in the flesh", not a (mere) prophet. How can you say that the Quoran "corrects" that?
   You also avoided my other points in your response, namely "salvation" and "martyrdom".
   Confusion comes because the two teachings are INCOMPATIBLE.

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      Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      aka -dj -
      
      I understand it.
      
      His prophet was told by god that the bible is wrong.
      
      His book has come afterwards to correct the false teachings and lies spread by the bible.
      
      What are you not getting here?
      
      No confusion on my part.
      
      ps - I love it when you guys argue over which one of you knows god's word and the other one is wrong. It confirms my own findings.
      
      Do it some more

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         daeemominposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Do not be overexcited. Your “findings” is going to be exposed very soon.Then you will realize that how confused you were.

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            Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            I am all ears.
            
            Can you come up with something better than you have done so far?
            
            Rather than the usual, "well, I believe and it is obvious that there must be a god and anyone who says otherwise is a fool because they do not believe."
            
            Not confused one little bit at the moment. You say your book is the word of god, he says the same thing, yet strangely, you cannot agree.
            
            Looking forward to something other than quoting text from a 1,500 year old book that says adulteresses should be stoned to death from a person who takes offense at the use of the word "breast," and says it is my fault that I do not speak some obscure language that god decided was the best language to share his word in.
            
            I can hardly wait........

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               daeemominposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               Show me where Quran says "adulteresses should be stoned to death from a person who takes offense at the use of the word "breast," ”.
               
               For your kind information, it is nowhere mentioned in Quran.
               you know nothing about Quran and came to challenge it....
               This is the extent of your knowledge of Quran and Islam.
               
               According to you Arabic is an obscure language. But figures show that it is the fifth most widely spoken language on earth. It is a very rich language. It is in terms of the number of speakers, the largest living member of the Semitic language family. According to wikipedia 422 million people speak Arabic.
               This is the extent of your general knowledge.

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                  Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  Ah, so adulteresses are NOT stoned to death. I stand corrected.This did not happen:
                  
                  
                  My mistake, my eyes deceived me for a moment.
                  
                  
                  
                  No more to be said.
                  
                  422 million people speak Arabic? (although most agree that it is only 255 million, but for the sake of argument)
                  
                  The population of the world is 6,602,224,175
                  
                  That would be 6.39% of the world's population that speak Arabic.
                  
                  Pretty obscure language if you ask me.
                  
                  But that is your knowledge of the world
                  
                  Did god forget to tell you that no one speaks Arabic?
                  
                  Perhaps He should try Mandarin Chinese next. I understand that is a little more widely spoken.

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                     daeemominposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                     My question remains unanswered.
                     These are your words:
                     “quoting text from a 1,500 year old book that says adulteresses should be stoned to death”
                     I asked you to:
                     “Show me where Quran says, "adulteresses should be stoned to death.”
                     
                     You ascribe something to the Quran and when it is asked to show the proof where it is, you are just showing an old photo.
                     What nonsense is this?
                     Give me the reference from Quran that where it is said: “adulteresses should be stoned to death.”
                     I will come to the second point later. Because I do not have enough time to waste arguing with such an ignorant  person like you.

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                        Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                        The Noble Qur'an An-Nur 24:2-9
                        
                        The woman and the man guilty of illegal sexual intercourse, flog each of them with a hundred stripes. Let not pity withhold you in their case, in a punishment prescribed by Allâh, if you believe in Allâh and the Last Day. And let a party of the believers witness their punishment. (This punishment is for unmarried persons guilty of the above crime but if married persons commit it, the punishment is to stone them to death, according to Allâh's Law).
                        
                        
                        
                        I never mentioned the Quran specifically. I include the Sunnah in this 1,500 year old book.
                        
                        Now answer my question.
                        
                        How does it make sense that god decided to write his word in an obscure language that only 6% of the world's population speak?
                        
                        94% of the population must therefore have a translated version. Just like the bible.
                        
                        I look forward to your responses if you have the time to educate some one as ignorant as myself. How long do you think it will take me to learn your language?

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                           daeemominposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                           Again, you have shown your ignorance.
                           These are your words “adulteresses should be stoned to death.”
                           The verse you have cited nowhere mentions that: “adulteresses should be stoned to death.”
                           In fact, you will never find this thing in the holy Quran.
                           
                           By telling, “I never mentioned the Quran specifically. I include the Sunnah in this 1,500 year old book” you have committed one more blunder.
                           First, you used these words, “text from a 1,500 year old book that says adulteresses should be stoned to death.”
                           Sunnah is not a book. The literal meaning of Sunnah is path. Sunnah is life of prophet.
                           How can you include Sunnah in that book? Muslims never did this.
                           Prophet died before 1420 years. He left after him only one book i.e. Quran. At that point of time there was no other book except Quran.
                           I do not know who is “enlightening” you on these subjects.
                           These are your “findings” that repeatedly you refer to.

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                              Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                              Ah - so then, adultery is not considered to be "illegal sexual intercourse"?
                              
                              Perhaps you could define that term for an ignorant westerner such as myself.
                              
                              Findings? Yes -
                              
                              You are here arguing that YOUR book is the word of god, and resorting to semantics to attempt to prove this.
                              
                              You have still not answered my question. Despite the fact that you have attacked me for not answering yours.
                              
                              You have called me a fool for not agreeing with your assessments and beliefs.
                              
                              You call me ignorant because I do not speak an obscure language that 94% of the world's population do not speak.
                              
                              You yourself said,
                              
                              
                              
                              Yet here you are resorting to the self same tactics and behavior you accuse your christian cousins of doing.
                              
                              I am using my intellect to know the truth, yet you do not think I am because I have not started from the same position that you have. I ask myself the question. "does it make sense."
                              
                              By your behavior and demeanor you have confirmed my findings.
                              
                              These, and many others have led me to the obvious conclusion that you are not spreading the word of god, and the further, inescapable conclusion that there is no such thing as god.
                              
                              Now answer my question - if you can.

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                                 daeemominposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                 The question here is not that whether adultery is illegal sexual intercourse or not. The question here is that where it is said that if any one commits illegal sexual intercourse he or she should be “stoned to death”. Where this punishment is mentioned in Quran?
                                 Till now I did not get the answer. The verse you quoted says that he or she should be flogged hundred stripes. Contrary to your claim, stoning to death is mentioned in Quran.
                                 
                                 I have never called you a fool.
                                 I didn’t say that you are ignorant because you cannot speak Arabic. I said that you are ignorant because you have heard somewhere that stoning to death is prescribed in Quran and you believed it with verifying the fact.
                                 
                                 I would say that you are not using your intellect to know the truth. I you are using your intellect then how you ascribed something to Quran which has not been mentioned in it.
                                 
                                 You are neither using your intellect nor employing your emotions. You are just emulating an old man with amateur interest in Biology who deceived a huge mass by his senseless ideas. You are following him because by this way you can fulfill your animalistic desires.

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                                    Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                    The ORIGINAL Quran stated "
                                    
                                    And whatsoever the messenger giveth you, take it. And whatsoever he forbiddeth, abstain (from it). And keep your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is stern in reprisal.) (Al-Hashr 59: 7) Also Allah says: (…then let those beware who withstand the Messenger's order, lest some trial befall them, or a grievous penalty be inflicted on them) A married man and woman, if they commit adultery, stone them to death.”
                                    
                                    The phrase "A married man and woman, if they commit adultery, stone them to death.” has now been removed from the current version, which is the unadulterated never-changed word of god :lol
                                    
                                    Although, I believe Islamic scholars call this "abrogated" rather than "Re-written to suit."
                                    
                                    The Kuwaiti Encyclopedia of Islamic Jurisprudence states:
                                    
                                    Ibn Qudamah wrote: “Muslim jurists are unanimous on the fact stoning to death is a specified punishment for married adulterer and adulteress. The punishment is recorded in number of traditions and the practice of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) stands as an authentic source supporting it. This is the view held by all Companions, Successors and other Muslim scholars with the exception of Kharijites.”
                                    
                                        Al-Bahuty said: “The authentic practice of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) supports stoning to death as a punishment specified for adultery. In addition, the verse commanding this punishment was revealed in the Qur’an. Later, it was verbally abrogated but its ruling is still binding. `Umar ibn Al-Khattab (may Allah be pleased with him) said: “Almighty Allah sent Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) with the truth and revealed unto Him the Qur’an. Among the revelation (brought by him) was the verse stipulating that married adulterer and adulteress should be stoned to death. We read, comprehended and understood it. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) acted in accordance with that and so did all of us. I fear, by the passage of time, that some people will say: ‘We do not find this verse in the Qur’an’, and thus they go astray abandoning an obligation given to them by Allah. Stoning to death is a Divine obligation and punishment specified for any married adulterer or adulteress once there is four witnesses or the confession of the accused.”
                                    
                                        In another narration, `Umar added: “By the One in Whose hands is my soul, had it not been that people would say: ‘`Umar added to the Book of Allah, I would have reinserted it. It (the verse) read: “A married man and woman, if they commit adultery, stone them to death. This is a punishment from Allah. Allah is Almighty and Wise.”
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    
                                    And now that we have conclusively proven that the Quran does indeed mention stoning. Or at least it did until it was changed, who is now the ignorant one?
                                    
                                    Care to answer my question now?

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                                 daeemominposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                                 We must have pity on you
                                 When I asked you to give the reference for the verse of stoning in the holy Quran, you searched the google image and then produced of photo.
                                 When I insisted to give reference from Quran, you gave the reference of verse 2 from the chapter An-Nur flogging of the guilty with hundred stripes.
                                 Then you said “I never mentioned the Quran specifically. I include the Sunnah in this 1,500 year old book.”
                                 When I clarified that Sunnah is not a book and Prophet left after him only one book, you came to know what actually Quran is.
                                 Now when all these attempts have failed, you are coming with a so-called abrogated verse.
                                 I would like to tell you that there was no such verse in the Quran. If some scholars have the opinion, that there was a verse regarding stoning that was later abrogated, they do not have any authentic proof to support their claim. This is mere an opinion among a tiny group of scholars.
                                 First, you sincerely read what abrogation is.
                                 
                                 You wrote:
                                 “The phrase "A married man and woman, if they commit adultery, stone them to death.” has now been removed from the current version, which is the unadulterated never-changed word of god”
                                 
                                 Again, this sentence of yours shows your lack of knowledge about Islam.
                                 Abrogation is something on which there is a difference of opinion among scholars.
                                 However, according to those who say that some verses of Quran were abrogated and replaced by other verses, this abrogation took place in the lifetime of the Prophet when Quran was being revealed and God himself abrogated some verses and replaced others.
                                 It has nothing to do with the compilation of Quran. There is no current or old version of Quran. All over the world there is one and only version of the Quran which “unadulterated never changed word of God.”
                                 
                                 I asked you to give me the reference from Quran and you have failed to give it.

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      daeemominposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I avoided your second point because all your belief is based on the unauthentic Bible, which has “grave defects” in it and “these defects are so many and so serious as to call for revision” according to the Preface to the “Revised Standard Version (1971).”
      Now again you are referring to the same unauthentic Bible. There is no point in answering your questions based on that distorted book.
      I do not know why you avoided my question. Why do you insist that Bible is in its original form?
      How can Bible be authentic with “so many”  “grave defects?”

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   gamergirlposted 15 years ago

   Hey, if all else fails, just proclaim that you are right five times, Mark.

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      Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      
      
      I am resisting the urge to say "god told me."
      
      Although, I think five times may not be the magic number.........

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   gamergirlposted 15 years ago

   lol
   
   Mark, I'm referring to the justice practices wherein during the trial of an adulteress the husband could proclaim his wife guilty by stating it four times, the fifth stating that He may bring down His wrath if the husband is wrong.  Likewise the wife could turn and state her innocence four times, the fifth claiming the same wrath if her husband was right.
   
   But then, the Quran also states that a woman's word and testimony is worth half that of a man, that a Prophet's wife(or wives) are to be punished doubly for their sins, a married slave woman property of her husband/master is to be punished by half because her master is weak, and all sorts of other fun facts by their eyes and ears.

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9. 57

   Mark Knowlesposted 15 years ago

   
   
   Ah. I must admit, not being able to speak Arabic, I am not 100% familiar with all the archaic rules and practices it imposes.

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10. 57

    Mark Knowlesposted 15 years ago

    I have a vast collection of photographs and videos, which included that one.
    
    But - now you are arguing that there is division amongst Islamic scholars as to what was "abrogated" or not.
    
    Clearly, as you have pointed out to me, the only perfect version of the Koran is in Arabic. I do not speak or read this language, so I must rely on translations. This, according to you, is my "fault," for not being able to speak Arabic. When I have researched this, I find differing opinions and arguments as to what is "original."
    
    And as I do not speak Arabic, I can NEVER read the original. So what are you talking about?
    
    Care to answer my question now?

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       Eng.Mposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       good day mr.Knowles
       
       sorry for interrupting this discussion
       
       
       
       
       
       was this your question ?
       
       now , here are my questions if you allow me to be part of this :
       Did God say anywhere in Quran that you must learn Arabic?
       Do you know that most and best muslims in the world are non-arabic speakers?
       Do you know it was not a barrier for them that they don't speak Arabic?
       Do you read several parts of Quran or just parts those you think they have mistakes?
       
       thanx for you patience

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          Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Will you answer the question?

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             Eng.Mposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             the answer:
             it makes sense because God's word doesn't need to be in orginal
             you will know the truth when you see it in any language

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                mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                wow well said.I did see God in the Holy Quran as I saw God in the Holy Bible and Holy Guru Granth Sahib

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                   mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                   Strange world,some see God in all three,some in neither of them and some in only one of them.

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                Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                Then why is deamonim using the fact that the bible is not original as proof that it is wrong?

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                   mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                   Good ,rather very good point.I would say ego.

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                   Eng.Mposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                   because if you have a book in its orginal language, you may say it is saved as it was before
                   but you don't say that you have to read it in its original form
                   translation copies could be compared if you have the original reference

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                      mohitmisraposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                      Mark does have a point here as the Holy Quran is written by the Prophets followers so it cannot be original as such.

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                         Eng.Mposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                         Quran was remembered by many muslims at the time of revelation
                         they didn't write it at that time to avoid mixing it with regular prophet own traditions or sunnah as Mark referred to
                         sunnah can be the way of life and could be the prophet says
                         the prophet says are categorized into many levels from rejected, weak, strong and accepted ones depending on several factors
                         
                         after the prophet death, there was no fear of mixing sunnah and Quran as they both were completed
                         
                         many muslims started to die in wars and the prophet followers suggested to collect Quran in a uniform shape in the same order from the longest to the shortest chapters
                         they also kept it in one accent and deleted all the ones in other accents
                         people has always remebered Quran
                         nowadays, there are millions remeber the whole Quran
                         
                         so, Quran wasn't saved by God throgh written versions but by making it easy to remember for men & women

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                         daeemominposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                         The Quran we have with us today is the very one – word for word -- which was revealed to the Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) It was collected both in the form of a book and learnt by heart by many companions of the Prophet (P.B.U.H)during his own life time and then transferred verbally as well as in the written form to the next generations. Such is the monumental nature of this transmission that the inerrancy of the Qur’anic text is an incontestable reality.
                         I have explained to you several times that Quran written by the COMPANIONS(not just followers) of Prophet in HIS LIFETIME and PROPHET HIMSELF DICTATED it to them. Moreover, the companions of prophet LEANT IT BY HEART. Even today millions of Muslims recite it by heart unlike any other scripture.
                         I have clarified this thing to you several times but repeatedly you are repeating the same thing that Quran was written by prophet’s followers.

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                   daeemominposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                   Because you cannot crosscheck it.

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                      Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                      Are you going to answer my question now?

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    ToddieMposted 15 years ago

    I gotta believe that at least one of you in this argument has seen the Bill Mahler flick called "Religulousity",,,if so, is it worth my time?

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