Being among the 10% of the people in the world who are fearless, we know fear is a matter of time and understanding. In other words fear is the unknowns, and much of Religion is based on that concept of hell. Without HELL, there would be very few Christian members.
When most people on earth will not say Yahweh is God or know his name. Then which God or Gods of the 1000s of Gods is the :Be All, & End All:? I just question God and anything that makes nonsense, if that's wrong,? then let God send down a lightening bolt and kill every comedian and anyone who has ever mocked or told a joke about God.
I would say that would cause the End of the World for sure, it's bad enough the greatest reason to kill someone is in the name of God. Is that what people truly fear?
Do you fear God?
Sure many people have become Christians out of fear of hell. After all that's the stick that gets preached with the carrot of Jesus' love.
But the term fear is not about being scared of God but it's about having respect for Him. So no I'm not living in fear of God, but am living in respect.
When you were a child, did you fear punishment from your parents if you were caught being bad?
Certainly not enough fear as one would have being sent to hell to burn for an eternity.
Are those the kind of threats your father gave you? Or, did your father actually show a modicum of compassion, instead?
Oddly enough, I'm with ATM. When my kids are naughty, the discipline fits the crime and its purpose is to change behaviour. Western judicial systems tend to have the same intent; people go to prison in accordance with the crime, and whist there, attempts are made to rehabilitate them. (except for some US states of course where they like to execute people). The punishment fitting the crime is called 'judgement'.
God knows this meaning too, hence eye for eye, tooth for tooth, etc was a statement from God that the punishment must fit the crime - always.
However the majority of evangelical Churches appear to have changed the meaning of judgement from one of balance to one of gross imbalance. We now have statements like our sin deserves eternal punishment in hell or annihilation. Yet if by that sin a teenager stole a bag of crisps (potato chips) from a corner shop and got sentenced to death by a high court judge, they would cry injustice. This hypocrisy is utter madness.
If you want to heep people in line and get to believe what you want then to, do the time and tested technigue of scaring the hell out of them. Religions have this down to an artform by introducing the "Boogyman" - Satan and Hell. The Bush Administration won a second term but convincing half of America that Bin Laden was outside out bedroom windows and the Republican conservatives are still installing fear into people, who can't think for themselves, by trying to convince that Obama is a Muslim dictator out to destroy America. "We have nothing to fear buy fear itself!": FDR
A Troubled Man
Certainly not enough fear as one would have being sent to hell to burn for an eternity.
LOL I thought you said bum for an eternity,
I was thinking about churches and televangelism lol
Actually no, I was fearless even as a kid, just some times things could make me sick like maggots and the movie Exorcist: puked my guts out
My Dad was a drunken bully , he would throw a heavy prying pan at me and it stuck into the wall, Every time he punch me I would punch him back, until through a slow process I train him to love. Then my Dad turned into one a wonderful person, the second half of his life.
Maybe we can teach your Father in Heaven to behave more lovingly too.
your dad was a drunken bully, lots of dad's are drunken bullies...... shame as we never can get our childhood back......
I wonder how many people if they are honest drink too much...... it must be hard to control, i could never get drunk, i would be violently sick first.....
As long as we don't hide from it and we do not regret it, all things will pass and balance out well.
a great deal of understanding comes with age, and the ability to forgive....
I cannot fear an idea, only the people inforcing it. I fear for the safety of our mental condition, especially in the hands of extremists. It takes all kind though...
Of course I fear God.
He made us, and He can take us out anytime He wants to.
It's a good thing He's a good God and not a bad one.
He is a Good god, he save some people while drowning the whole humanity, sent fire to a whole town, kill a female for looking back, kill his own son to impress humanity, sent people to eternal hell for silly mistakes... Words are not enough to describe his goodness!
well he did not really drown all humanity. He had everyone told what was going to happen, he made an ark, big enough to get lots of people in..... They chose to ignore...... He is a loving god.....
His tiny boat could not handle 27 million people and millions of species.
I'm sure most did not get a memo about the flood, seem like a set up because most creature want to survive, even the one's who go to heaven
a set up ha ha ha ha ah ...... you are too funny i must read some of your hubs........
thats cuz there was only one family not worshipping gold statues and sacrificing their children, etc etc
hey wait? aren't they back to worshiping statues again?
hope they don't pick up that other crap...
i'd have to get mean if i seen that last one being practiced again
Do you think disobedience should be rewarded?
What kind of justice system to do you agree with ?
The God I know is just and merciful,or we would simply not be here to talk about Him or anything else for that matter.
Just like many other Religions and other assumed Gods, if you do not over obey their fight club, they throws fear at you to keep you in line. I can't live in a world without love
Too bad most are motivated by fear rather than love,
You can't find real love in this world except in God. Well, fear in God means respect and worship. We fear Him because He loves us no matter who we are. He loves you too. The problem is, you might be refusing Him. Again there's still chance for you.
lovers don't join fight clubs, they try to love them death
No way, we should immediately stone people to death and then send to hell to burn for an eternity, no matter what the disobedience committed.
Only that kind that God would show, burn, burn burn... forever!!!
So instead of having an answer yourself, you have chosed to condemn somone elses system.
What a cop out and cowardly nature mankind has.
You have no answer, so pull down someone elses (Gods)...unreal
I was not replying to you TM, though of course I relise you are free to comment on any post.
Just so as you know though I won't be responding to any immature ,provocative posts of yours from now on.
You will miss me
I have offered YOUR system, Gods laws. Or, do you actually live by the laws men have made that is our judicial system? Which is it?
I provided an answer, I offered the same system you yourself support. Or, do you not support Gods laws? Which is it?
Caught red-handed, weren't you.
The kind of justice where innocents are killed! Like the first born kids, the only son and stuff like that!
No, if you were a judge ,what kind of justice system would you run?
Reward willful disobedience for example?
Its easy to critise ,sounds dramatic and all that ,but seriously how would you discipline a family ,society,or group of people you loved?
..But their bloodline was not innocent, if you think outside of your emotions,it would help if you understood the whole story-how sin entered the world etc, how God was offering mankind a way to change that.
Science lovers should love that fact that God works on many levels -all designed to reach our hearts.
Cause and effect in motion.
Do this -you live
Do that-you die
Now we can argue ,like they did way back then ,but the reality is still the same.
Do you seriously think mans wisdom is better than Gods? and is God likely to change his way or wisdom in dealing with sin.
God said..'I am the same ,today as yesterday.
Odds are God will rule like He has always done.
Up to us to get smart in my opinion, since in all the years of whining and debating hasnt changed a thing.
You could be right, you could feel more intelligent, the majority may unite and feel powerful-but remember this,so to did the Egyptians once . and look what happened to them.
He isnt like man ,that He should lie. God walked the talk.
I am in awe (modern analogy) or fear of God, question is I don't see why anyone could not?
Hi Castle paloma. You are really fearless huh. God is not sending thunders to those who mocks Him because He is giving them the chance to accept His offer of salvation in Christ Jesus. But don't worry there is an appointed time for them who does not acknowledge God. An appointed time for eternal judgement in an unquenchable fire and brimstone. I hope that you will change your position before it's too late. Your guts will not surely endure God's coming wrath to everyone who does not out there trust in Him.
What about those killed in that flood, didn't god want to offer them salvation?
He did, Noah took about 100 years to build the Ark, during that time the people could have repented and turned back to God any time, and been saved, they chose to ignore Gods (very long) offer of salvation, just like folk do today.
This is the problem I have with it all Agua; those that perished in the flood just died in this life, and no record exists of any post death sanction. But the concept of hell taught by evangelicals is that the sanction is either conscious eternal torment, or annihilation. The OT gives no hint of such things. It's as if the Church has changed the rules; cranked up the sanction by orders of magnitude.
People may agree (dependant on their sensibilities) that some crimes might warrant a death sentence; the punishment fits the crime. But this death is temporary. Ths Christian hell is quite different; it is punishment that is offensive in magnitude; the punishment does not fit any crime that a human can commit. The idea that everyone on Earth deserves hell by virtue of being born is patently ridiculous.
This is why I must conclude that this lake of fire is not something literal, but is a picture of a purification process; like a silversmith who keeps heating the crucible until the impurities are removed; until he can see his face reflected. Perhaps until God can see his face in those in the L of F. Furthermore, when I looked up the ancient uses of sulphur, brimstone, I am more convinced that the L of F though horrific is ultimately benign.
I'll say if there is a Christlike kinder approach to Jesus, you are better than most
God is not required to answer all of your questions upon your demand.
He is GOD.
And I'm more certain than not you don't have His entire Word memorized.
I suppose you'd like to question His judgement in person as well?
The more you know and pray, the more you'd understand,
You'll not get jack from Him, if you come with prideful demands.
That is something else He teaches in His Holy Word.
True, but he does answer those with an open enquiring mind willing to let go of Church doctrines. When was the last time you approached him with one?
I have not quoted any scripture here, but I have spent the last two years researching and meditating on eschatology.
You need to consult a dictionary definition of 'judgement' then see if it aligns with your doctrines.
I've known and prayed for 27 years. I'm making no prideful demands here. But if pride and arrogance is an issue for you, perhaps you should show more humility on this forum.
It isn't me I'm defending. It is God, and He DOES deserve reference.
I'm not trying to be ugly DH.
And theology doesn't give you answers. Humility, the Holy Bible, and Prayer do.
First - Before reading, pray and ask God to please help you understand His words. That you know He is right, and would like to see things from HIS perspective so you can understand Him better.
Second - If you read something you don't understand, don't go to people who don't understand God, that makes no sense as they obviously don't have any answers. My suggestion is to look whatever it is you don't understand up in Matthew Henry's Complete Commentary [plenty online just google] and read his writings on the subject. He has a VAST knowledge on the Bible and references everything he says. He is long winded, but that simply assures you he leaves nothing unexplained.
Third - Don't question God's judgement ever [not saying you do].. Jesus' primary teaching was humility, and God will reveal Himself and give understanding to the humble through His word. He will blind the proud because they are arrogant and therefore demand things they haven't the right to demand. John 9:41
If you have any serious genuine questions or don't understand something Matthew Henry said [which i doubt will happen] I LOVE studying the Word of God and if I don't have the answer, I'll certainly help you find it.
If I offended you I'm sorry DH. Hope you'll forgive me.
Theology - Theo meaning God, logy, from logic or knowledge. Theology is a good way to get answers because it's about testable and repeatable logic to get to truth. It is not a subjective view from what someone thinks God has shown them, which invariably brings someone into conflict with someone else who thinks they heard something different from God.
God has made us in his image, therefore logic, reason, the desire to seek testable evidence come from him.
What makes you think Matthew Henry's has the answers? He is quite likely to have all the answers that fit Church doctrine. One must consult a variety of sources, such as Jewish Rabbis for an understanding of the OT for example, or objective historians to understand the historical background to biblical topics.
At no time have I questioned God's judgment here. I question the validity of the evangelical interpretation- which is a very good thing to do.
Over and above I have taken all my studies to God on numerous occasions, and I am at peace.
I'm glad your at peace.
I accept Matthew Henry's teachings because they correspond with the teachings of Christ as a whole.
And, because one who has seached and studied the entirety of the scripture through an entire life's devotion and is also a scholar is bound to be more accurate and correct than most aquainted with the text.
Not only, but I search through logic, and faith, and in that sense I agree with Matthew Henry's approach to the scriptures.
They were simply suggestions attained from my own study of the Bible.
Not attempting to force or twist arms.. lol
And I'm fully aware of the origin and meaning of theology.
Have a good one DH.
That has got to be one of the lamest arguments ever, especially from someone who claims to talk to God.
I tend to concur with you DH, and especially on the lake of fire issue, have done for a long time and have not (since I came to the same conclusion) spoke in a traditional way about hell and/or LoF.
It's full blown universalism in Churchianity terms of course, but as nobody can actually prove that this opinion is heresy, I am comfortable with it.
The nearest I found to challenge the universal salvation concept was sent me from a man I respect who is a true bible scholar, who could only produce the Judas argument:
The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born.
Of course in principal we need to answer WHY it would have been better not to have been born, and there are several reasons that come to mind, first being that during the LoF experience, knowing that you had betrayed Christ would be a heavy number to handle, but whatever we say, we need to answer that.
My stance has long been as follows:
God has a requirement to provide eternal habitation for all those who refuse to spend eternity with Him, as well as those who are disqualified by their evil actions without repentance.
That environment by default MUST be a place where God chooses to NEVER go, and therefore that place has no rules made by God, but will be governed by the people who chose to go there.
That,(IMO) would be hell of a sorts, a bit like voluntarily asking to be put in the worse prison in the world, where there were no guards, and anybody could do as they liked to you, and you had no chance of escaping even via death.
Those who chose to be isolated eternally from God, would be left to contend with those who by their actions in life were disqualified from being with God.
Aaarrrggghhh. I typed out a load of stuff only to lose it all.
Daniel offers us a different perspective:
Daniel 12:2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
Everlasting contempt doesn't seem possible if people are annihilated. This contempt is the strongest sanction I have found in the OT, and it doesn't fit the idea of an eternal physical torment in literal fire.
I agree, there must be a location after resurrection for those who are not with God, and Rec 22:15 would confirm this. However, is this situation permanent? No chance of repentance or rehabilitation after judgment as per our legal systems?
Rev 21: 24 & 25, tell us that the Earth's nations will walk by its light, which suggests to me that they are outside, and the city is a lamp. The kings come into to it, but is this a continual going in and out, or a single event? The gates are never shut, why? Are God's people continually going in and out? Perhaps to minister to those outside. Is there a continual stream of people who have been cleansed by the LoF going in?
I have some fundamental problems with Revelation anyway.
1) Did John see real images from God, his own imagination, or was he mad?
2) Why does the Church accept that the 10 headed dragon and just about everything else is a symbol, but insist the LoF is literal?
3) John saw four living creatures around the throne. These represent astrological symbols. If you consult a good star chart you wil see Aquarius (Man), Leo (Lion), Taurus (Ox) and Scorpio at four opposite points on the zodiac. Where we see a scorpion, the Babylonians saw an Eagle. The Babylonians interpreted the constellations as gods, but John knows there is one God, so interprets them as angelic beings. Yet God tells us in Genesis, they are for marking seasons, and John should know this. Is he just borrowing Ezekiel's vision here, in which case not everything in Revelation is a vision, but is John's interpretation?
Like, :The Wrath of Khan: Give up your ways or die by Fire and Brimstone
If your God made us in his image, he must have had a great sense of humor
No, I don't fear God, do you fear aliens from space?
Alien will be more intelligence than us, so no reason to fear in the first place.
Or unless your Alien abduction experience or being sexually abuse or operated on has scars and scared you for life
Joking about people being traumatized is very disrespectful.
That is tragic, not funny Castle.
Why would I fear someone who is supposed to represent total, unconditional love?
Yes I do fear God, and that's a good thing. I have high respect and reverence of who he is.
Since 7 years old I disliked and stood up to bullies. Any person or thing including my bully Dad who tried to disempower me and tried over control with his inadequacy , then love worked out better later on.
Most people want to stop a bully but lack the courage to get involved for fear of becoming a target. When somebody else makes the first move others are likely join in.
That is when the spiritual age begin to empower them selves from the bronze age God
I also dislike bullys, but thankfully God is NOT a bully.
I 'fear God' for the same reason that I 'fear' government, or (when I had one) my boss, not because they were bullies, but because they held the power that could affect my life.
Like WoC said, believers 'fear' God with the respect and reverence of who He is, an all powerful God who loves us.
Governments, employers and others bully us, God loves us, God uses His power and might for good, bullys don't
Facing each bully makes you stronger,I was once rich,now helping the poor like Jesus. I only wish you guys would get over your fear of God, I'm sure it's a wrong translation again
CP, it's not a fear like we know fear on earth, God has not given us a spirit of fear, so all fear in earthly world terms originates from the enemy.
It's 'healthy' fear, same as I have of very tall buildings, I don't fear the building itself, just very aware of the results of falling off the building, so I prefer to view those buildings looking up, from ground level, where I can stand in awe of their majesty and beauty, rather than looking down from them and 'fear' what could happen is I and the building parted company.
Just another insane act if one jumps off a building. Who need World full of guilt, conditional love, a sword for enemies, fear of your master
Majesty and beauty is in love of nature and be able to love everyone in degrees, it not possible for me to be way too one sided with Yahweh
<--- coveted double laughie award
That has got to be the most ridiculous, contrary, sick and twisted reason for justifying a religions god I've heard... today.
Ancient torture from sheep herder writers repeating themselves get very boring for me
Well you posted the thread buddy. lol
Maybe take a rain check on starting the fun if it's so boring.
Maybe start a thread on curtains or how to bake the best pie..
ohh ohhhhh.. Maybe sky die-ving.. [sry.. random thought, the guy that 'forgot' his parachute]
Hello Castlepaloma. aguasilver has explained it quite well, so I don't need to waste any time adding to it. Have a good day.
aguasilver explained nothing, the results of falling off the building, only could happen to me if I was viewing those buildings looking up, then he pushed me off the building
Many Christain try to tell non believer to not jump off a cliff into the lake of fire. Like we are some kind of lemmings who would say 'Sparta!" when they jump off the cliff
I do not fear god, but fear displeasing him....... Much as a child would fear displeasing their parents......
Why fear parents today, you can sue them in court, or divorce them if they don’t treat you well enough
ha ha ha ha ha.......
how controversial are you......
I had a healthy fear of upsetting my mum and dad, even as an adult, it is probably the wrong word... "fear" I was just brought up to respect them, so did not really do anything that would upset them, it was the training we had i suppose.....
Taking your parents to court, i would hope things would never get too bad for that..... I am sure it does though at times. Sad really when it comes to that.
To fear God is to "Be humble enough to acknowledge his being"
God said: I am that I am.
I fear Him ,because He is who He says He is!
Castle, did you respond to me saying you shouldn't mock God buddy?
Is that what this is about?..
And that fear is healthy if danger and pain are real?
It's ok, we know your denial of Hell. But there is a REASON every culture in in the history of the world knows about it and what it is.
Wishing you'd give up your pride trip, but hey.. who am I?
God bless you o fearless one.
Judaism knows nothing of hell, that's why you won't find it in the OT. The Church then borrowed hell from the pagans.
That's one view popularized here lately.
I'm not debating the rest. Pamper your ego if you like..
Heaven is real, Hell is real, Eternity is real.
Add it up or deny them together along with Christ.
Everything funny because nothing makes sense?
Aint seen a post you aren't laughing yet.
Maybe you 'n mary poppins got some of that gas together huh?
Everything funny because nothing makes sense?
Lol lol LOL
If this guy was God we would be both troubled men
Eternity is proven as scientific fact.
Now, you can attempt dismissal of the rest by not reading about it.
Would you like to say I can't prove the existence of eternity?
You can't prove eternity until you go there. Only Jesus went to visit hell and told the people down there he was suffering greater than they were. The people in hell hated Jesus even more so for telling them another tall tale
The only reality is your inability to think!
Yea! Let dogs bless!
I'm sure we will come around to your way of thinking, when we a surrounding in fire and brimstone, only then, you can yell :I TOLD YOU SO!!!!
No, Jesus Christ does not want you there.
You may imply that we enjoy others pain if you like, but you are and will always stand incorrect.
God's Word clearly teaches to love every person, but to hate the evil ways, such as lies, murder, deceit, robbery, sexual immorality, etc. for the fact they bring pain into the world.
We tell you about Jesus Christ BECAUSE we love you.
Maybe you should quit trying to slander us buddy.
Here is a few reason to fear your God, where I could not imagine to do so.
Every word In the Bible is said to be true as in universal truth and knowledge
List of capital crimes of death, personally I think capital punishment is not a good idea, my rule is do not harm and be honest.
Rape, betrothed woman, Loss of virginity by a woman prior to marriage, Adultery with a married woman., Marrying your wife's mother. Certain forms of incest,Prostitution by the daughter of a priest,. The correct translation and interpretation of this passage, Homosexuality in Judaism and Homosexuality in Christianity,Bestiality, Murder,Smiting a parent, A son who persists in disobeying his parents, Kidnapping[,Negligent homicide,Contempt of court, False witness to a capital crime, Witchcraft Many Notes/References of these in Exodus,, Leviticus , Numbers 25:1-9, Deuteronomy there is over a 1000 death penalty link .
I'm not the champion of judgeing others, per capita there is more Christians in prison than any other group, and judge yoursevle harder than anyone.
Do on to others as you would do onto yourself
There is nothing worst in the world than killing someone. Other ideas is Criminals can be rehabilitated. costs more to kill than prison. Innocents may be The we have religious war , war on weed, and making gays legal in 80 countries
Find a little more love and kindness rather than pushing for pain and so many of these bible morals. Then at the end of it all, they push on with Hell, that,s Fear mongering plus, not love
The Bible is the record of history and words of God's correction to the evil done therein by man.
Must I keep repeating myself? Rehabilitation? That is exactly what Jesus Christ is Castle - God's Rehab plan for mankind.
And would you dare say ALL can be rehabilitated? No. Cereal killers are those who will NEVER stop killing. Hell is an eternal lockup for just those kind. People who won't repent and accept God's help -- Jesus Christ.
Jesus IS the love and kindness, and you refuse Him. Then accuse God of being a fear monger? lol Please
And you don't know who is a true Christian and who isn't. Only God knows what is in a man's heart and what his thoughts truly are. Thinking you do know who are and aren't Christians is foolish. All you can do is look at what they DO. Not what they say... Liars are dime a dozen. And even then some put on a show just to ATTEMPT to look like a good person.
Why don't you read how many times God corrected Israel for doing evil. He is patient and loving. He saves them because the repent and beg Him for mercy, and then what? They do it again... Then what? Again He has mercy...
And it goes on and on - because He is patient and loving.
Judging God is not very wise, especially in light of you not knowing everything in His book. Picking and choosing things you don't like while overlooking the subject matter and meaning as a whole is a fatal error on your own part.
I really can't make heads or tails from the so many contradiction in the bible and really may never understand it's over all purpose other than being a great tool for rich to tool and control the masses.
From the list given from above post of capital punishment from the Bible , it an example where the punishment is far worst than the crime. Sure, if someone killed my daughter, my first reaction would feel like killing him in return. I must think about, I can't regret the pass and my job is to lock the murderer up for good.
When his freedom is taken away, he will understand clearly what he did in time. Not even Hitler deserve to burn in Hell for 50 years to learn his lesson.
"that's one view popularised here lately"? It's been a popular idea for 4000 years amongst the Hebrews.
Who are these so called evil angels? The OT never mentions them. Where is this hell? The OT never mentions one. Heck neither does the NT for that matter. As for heaven, yes I'm happy that that's real, but perhaps you could give me chapter and verse where it says anyone but God and the angels ever go there.
I don't deny Christ, I just deny your strings attached gospel.
Did you miss my other statement? lol
I'm not nitpicking things that were established because you lack sight to see them.
You want to ask genuine questions and determine whether there is an answer, or if I indeed have one, then send me a message.
I won't start that chaotic mess of jibberish on such a subject.
It requires attention to detail which is not allowed here with input from everyone's opinion.
The only 'opinion' that will answer your questions is in the Bible.
If you want me to try to point something out you think isn't there, send me a message.
End of story, I won't reply on that subject here for good reason.
Mock God all you want, your only mocking everyone because everyone is God. Shoulding is more so your morals and ethic is more mine. It's the enlighten souls, who never get insulted because if the insult is truth you are learning something in an over ego world. If the insult is not true then give back the gift given to you and to the rightful owner.
You guys give too much shock into ancient spiritual words which limits your mind, I put my stock into the source of good intention and the Godlike imagination as spiritual is the 99% unknowns yet to be discovered
Christian know their fear and strong arm tactics to persuade and get people over to their fight team, yet it dose not work on me. Only Love and kindness penetrate my mind and body because there is not nearly enough of it in the World today. So I'll give you all my love like I gave my Father , and we will see what happens anyways. Kidding aside, I'm truly working on it, for most moment of each & every day,
Well I'm glad to hear that. I love everyone.
Jesus Christ doesn't want you in that place, and all He asks is to love God, believe He sent Jesus to save you, and love your neighbor. What fight club runs on those laws? lol
He made Hell for evil angels, not you or me. And we joined in on the prison of Hell by following their lead. Pretty simple really. But God didn't send us all to Hell just like that snapy finger burn in Hell.
No, He sent Jesus out of LOVE for us.
I love you too Castle.. You already know that.
Never will match the pride of Yahweh and their fight club.
If you, our love ones and I are burning in Hell forever,
Because God love You?
Because they refused God and His kingdom.
They chose evil, which cannot exist in God's kingdom.
They refuse not to:
Be Jealous without reason
They refuse to accept God, and say false things about Him such as:
He caused evil
Me made me hurt
Hell means He's evil
He doesn't exist
Jesus Christ didn't come to save us
Mock Jesus Christ
You get the point.
God gives you, me, and all free will. Though they deny they have free will, they are mistaken.
For that free will is the very thing that puts them in Hell. They choose to rebel and deny and to not accept Jesus Christ's love.
God has a paradise, and they said 'no'. Why?
Because people don't want to look, or try to see the truth and understand.
Jesus said God is fair as fair gets in His sermon on the mount. He is just and true.
But those who deny Christ Jesus accept the lies of Satan and therefore are doing what Satan wants and serving Satans will, not God's will.
There is only two ways.. Good and Evil
God or Satan
You cannot serve both.
Jesus Christ is God's will.
Mocking Jesus is Satan's.
They CHOOSE to fill their hearts with evil destruction, and therefore set themselves in the path to pain. Pain which they help cause through evil things done. Denying Christ and persuading others in the same direction leads others astray from salvation from pain, and therefore you cause pain on your brothers and sisters as well, deceiving them into thinking the pain doesn't exist after death, and there is no consequence for evil.
No consequence is a lie, for evil will not run free just because it chooses to destroy and bring pain. The payment is in pain, and the price is high once you account for all the painful things they've done to their brothers and sisters. Jesus Christ wants to pay the fine instead of imprison you for injustice to others, if you try to do right - love God, love brother/sister - but people say 'We don't want Jesus.'
Therefore they deny the help, the person who would release them, love them, and give them freedom...
And choose Satan instead and mock God.
THEY, run into Hell accusing God just like you are accusing Him right now.
BUT, lol, God never done anything wrong. They never had to go there.
And God is NEVER wrong or unjust.
How ridiculous is the biblical story.
God even in the bible is a failure
He failed with the Angels and he created Evil in the Garden of Evil
It should have been Paradise, under what definition does having evil be called Paradise.
Then creating a male human from the dirt, but cloning the female.
To have male and female as equals they both needed to be created equaly.
God failed with Adam and Eve
God Failed with Cain
God Failed with Moses
God Failed with Jesus. Mankind didn't change for the better in AD.
God created deadly events on Earth that are out of the control of humans
Earthquakes, Tsunamis, Hurricanes etc.
God created space junk to wiz around the solar system impacting with objects that come in their path.
The Universe is totally useless for us on Earth.
Would you be proud to have created this Earth and this Universe.
If this was a manufactured product it would fail all quality tests, and fail the need to exist.
1 Corinthians 2:14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
You need the Holy Spirit and its free! without Him, its like a fuzzy smudged window. Some shadows you can make it,but nothing is clear, and when it becomes clear, Gods spirit reveals even more!
Love it,its exciting.
The more I read the Bible the more I get a warm and fuzzy feeling from my cat.
They failed. He gave them choices, they choice to cause pain.
Free will requires consequence to teach correction, just like you teach your children by taking away the video game when they make their sister bleed with a sharp stick by stabbing her. Did he understand? No.
So you give the person who has 'free will' to do bad OR good a consequence and show them they can't DESTROY things or they will DESTROY EVERYTHING INCLUDING THEMSELVES. It is a pattern, ever seen patterns? They are called habits by us, and gone uncorrected or REFUSED by the person given the choice leads to destruction and ultimately their own destruction..
What do you suppose? God MAKE them do good? Is THAT free will?
No, you give choices, and consequence to teach. God won't allow those who refuse not to be destructive to destroy everything.
You wouldn't let a murderer go run free through your neighborhood would you??
You want him locked up don't you? Did YOU fail if it so happens your son is a murderer? And kills people without cause though you taught him not to?
Because there are parents who suffered such a case.. Maybe you should tell THEM they failed as well...
To kill someone to prove to us, killing is wrong, is not correct
Countries that have capital Punishment have the highest rate of murderers, killing always creates more killing.
Yes, lock them up for life perhaps. Make them work for every bit of freedom wail in Jail.
Jesus Came to earth to obtain the power over the Law.
The Law was set before we were made.
He walked as one of us to obtain undeniable righteous judgement.
(Sinner's claim - "God doesn't know what it's like.") - But, now through Jesus that claim is void.
Jesus had to die, and at that by the hand of evil (Those who love God wouldn't kill His Son) - and He was perfect and sinless and would have never died. He couldn't obtain the keys to the prison [Hell] without dying and going there and couldn't take the payment on Himself if He hadn't died either.
He had to die, pay the fine for us, and then rise again three days later.
God does exactly what you say is right to do.
Locks them up for life - eternity- in Hell.
And while there, they must pay for the injustice they caused to innocent people. The pain they cause God + The pain they cause others.
Because they refuse Christ.
God is perfect.
Those that proclaim love for God would not kill, period. You are so full of it man, preaching as though only christians know how to love God. Get real man, seriously, you can't be serious. Especially preaching hellfire for non-christians. This is why I believe there is no universal love with the christian God. The same can be said of Islam. You guys are all full of crap.
No, Hell for denial of Christ's help.
Speaking of judgement, you have plenty don't you? lol
Christ Jesus paid the fine to get us out of Hell.
You refuse Him, He doesn't FORCE you to do good.. He says sadly... "ok"
And off you go to where you chose.
Christ says all this Himself - I have not made any judgement on you buddy.. lol
But I already knew you were going to show up and point your finger at me.
Because you deny and refuse Christ Jesus. He already said you'd hate me for following Him.. No surprize there..
You are not hated for following Christ. You may be disliked for your opinions on the subject, but why should you be treated any differently from the rest of us?
Well, I wish it were so. But I know the things said of me and to me in the past.
And I don't have an opinion. I gave mine up in search for God's.
Jesus says things plainly, then people say 'He didn't mean it that way.'
And I wish sometimes people didn't hate me because of Him because it makes me sad. He came here and done what He did out of love for the entire world, but the majority of the world mocks Him in disrespect.
He fortold every single thing that still happens today. Most won't accept Him... People would hate me because of Him... Everything He says and does is perfect, loving, and true.. and yet they still won't accept Him.
The greatest minds in the world witness that there is more evidence for His resurrection than any other historical fact, and they still want to deny and refuse Him.
One of the great men decided to go through the historical evidence to prove Jesus' resurrection untrue, and finally admitted himself is was impossible for it not to be true. That it could not be disproven. Yet these people still claim He is a fairy tale.
It is all true, and it makes me sad... And they do hate me, because they hate Him.
I've been a man with thousands of dollars to spend on anyone I want, anywhere I want, anyhow I want.. And I know both sides to most stories.
Rich and poor.
Good and evil.
Loving and not.
God real and unbelief.
I know the truth, where true happiness is, and how to obtain it.
But though I try to give it to people - They reject it because of all the lies and lack of understanding.
I even had a man tell me "I don't want to find God"....
Hell is real.. I know about it.. And people are going there.
People think you lay around awhile before you go wherever you're destined as well. But you don't - you die - you go.. right then.
They think Hell ends - it doesn't - it's a prison in eternity. confinement for life.
They think it's going to have a party.. It won't, it's not a fun place.
Because Jesus taught it, I searched. Everything He says is right. It's true.
And even though it's true, people hate me because they think it isn't
And they will continue to hate me, because I love them, and refuse to give up.
They will claim me crazy just like the Pharisee's said Jesus Christ was.
But He is not. And neither am I. He is Truth. And it saddens me because people don't want to be sure of their future.
It saddens me, though I am happy I am saved, it saddens me that God loves them so much and they mock Him, deny and refuse Him, and hate Him.
And send themselves to that awful place that He nor I or any other Christian want people to go. Just because they don't like the idea of trying to be good. It's not 'cool' to be kind and not curse.. It's not 'cool' to watch movies that aren't about lies, deceit, or killing and murder... It's not 'cool' to acknowledge we 'need' God's help, we have to be 'tough' or 'independant' to be 'cool'....
And it literally, seriously, makes me sad..
Don't be sad. And don't be so opinionated. It isn't God's mind. It is your interpretation of the text.
That's a huge difference.
lol, if only you could see what I see.
I'm attempting to find somewhere to learn Greek.
I really mean I don't have an opinion, aside from loving God.
I usually let scripture speak for itself. You just have to put the pieces together correctly and find where this or that clears the water.
Biblical scholars have done done most of the searching and connecting.
And the one's who aren't denying it's true pretty much all agree on everything. The text speaks for itself. It's just finding the relative references.
Like connect the dots, but a little more complicated.
I just follow Jesus, He's real and He teaches me.
If it weren't true, I wouldn't say it in front of people.
And my statements are simply other parts of scripture. I try not to say anything I peronally think at all.
But, I know that everyone thinks I have personal bias, or an 'incorrect' 'interpretation'.. been hearing it for years. Not from those like me.. but you know.
If it weren't real, it wouldn't bother me. But I know... that it is.
I've stood where you stand. Your pretty darn smart too.. But, it's a completely different world when God opens eyes that have never seen.
That's exactly why Christ calls them lost, and blind..
Not as an insult - but because it's true
I think Christianity has devolved into the blind leading the blind. But if it keeps a smile on your face, who am I to judge? The same goes for my philosophy also though. You honestly have no way of looking inside the heart of another and knowing if they aren't truly where they are meant to be. If God exists, all things have evolved as they are meant to. This means, unfortunately, by fighting reality you would be fighting against God himself. By judging others not right with God because they don't agree with you would be casting a judgment in opposition of the one already set in place by God.
I'm agnostic but I honestly believe, if God exists, all things are as they were meant to be......with the exception of religion. You guys have steered off course. Out of pride, ego, or an overpowering need to know the answers. Whatever the reasons you have overstepped the bounds of what information has been made available to this point.
I don't hate you or christianity, I don't like where the teachings are going: The way of personal attitude. It says not to place judgement and it's a judgement to preach hellfire for non-believers.
I don't think people go to hell for not following christ's way, so much as not following your own.
Some people don't believe in God because they haven't heard a sufficiently brilliant argument to convince them. This does not mean they are evil or wicked. According to the bible, people are evil and wicked because of the things that they do; which can include Christians.
I agree. I would also point out that if belief were of the importance some equate to it, a loving God would leave no room for doubt. I think doubt must serve a valuable purpose, other than the one argued by the standard fundamentalist.
Yes, we are born with sin, and Christians are sinners as well.
But Jesus said, every man who truly seeks forgiveness, meaning they want to change and strive to do good and be righteous as they can - though they know they won't until Christ heals them when resurrected - they still try....
They will be forgiven, if they believe in Jesus try and strive and love God and brother and sister.
The only people God doesn't forgive are those who reject the Gospel because if they TRULY seek God, God will show Himself, if they are humble in their approach. They reject Christ Jesus, and there are brilliant arguments everywhere. I've been reading them for years. If they haven't read one, they made up their mind before they searched they don't want God.
Jesus says it's the blashempy of the Holy Spirit, which is God trying to show you He is real and loves you. Meaning God pleads with every man's heart to come to Him and Jesus, who IS God with us, and ask forgiveness so He can free them....
God is perfect DH..
If they are in Hell, they are evil.. God doesn't send people who are good to Hell. If there was any way to save them ... GOD would have done so.
They refused Him.. That's all there is to it.
There are those who have not heard of a sufficiently brilliant argument to prompt them to seek forgiveness or believe in God.
According to Jesus blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is saying publicly that his miracles were evil.
Psalm 139: 13For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. 14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well. 15 My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place. When I was woven together in the depths of the earth, 16 your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be.
This psalm proves that we are not born with sin; we are born perfect. How can that which God has made in the womb contain sin? Does God put it there? Does it just magically appear at birth?
No I do not fear God. God is the universal Spirit or Light. Not an actual being full of revenge and punishment.
Welcome to hub pages and welcome to Canada
Revenge and justice are two distinct terms.
God determines justice, which is what you and all others require from your gov't.
Yet you falsely accuse God of 'revenge'?
No, it is the same justice a woman cries for when her baby has been murderded.
Suppose imprisoning the murderer is revenge now?
Let him go free you say? Is that the correct way you're implying?
God is not vengeful. He is just.
Accusing God is also unjust, because He is perfect.. While we are not.
A world without justice, is a world without free will...
What do you do? MAKE them do good? Is that giving them free will?
No, you give them a choice, and consequences. We all know what these things are.. Nothing new, and it is how free will works without bringing pain and destruction.
Those who ABUSE free will, refusing not to cause destruction and pain, when they have multitudes of options besides being hateful and destructive. They will have a consequence.
So do tell.. is imprisoning a murderer vengeful?
When one makes revenge, dig two graves
Most of America is not acting Christ like with their 26% of the world's prison's and half the World's war budget. You could say the moral value and fear factor of 85% christian in the USA is not working anymore
You want to keep sucking up their lies?
If they don't follow Christ's TEACHINGS they MUST NOT BE Christians...
What don't you get about that?
They AREN'T Christians JUST BECAUSE they claim they are..
In a word: "No." I am, of course, referring to the first question.
Seemingly clear that you are doubtful of HIS existence, by way of questionning which god is GOD... Believing in HIm is a matter of choice, we are given free will to choose what we think is right and wrong... It's a matter of faith to believe in something you haven't seen at this point of your existence. I suggest you try reading the bible and internalize it...
As to the "striking of lightning bolts" to those who mocked him, God doesnt work that way... It goes beyond human understanding how He dealt with his people...
We fear God, just as we fear if we disobey our own biological father... Hell is designed to punish those who are so linient with sins amidst warnings and reprimands, as our earthly father would give as a lesson if we defy his orders.
I believe you have your reason why your way of thinking towards God is like that. May you be enlightened. God moves in mysterious way...
wow are we getting anywhere here or not..... some thread, it has taken me ages to read it.... some people just like to stir the pot is my opinion. Sometimes we have to agree to disagree.... and disagree without being disagreebale...
You may find this hard to believe, with the average person of any kind I can agree with 95% of the time. The big game changer is when Fundamentalist fear God and are desperate to unsure themselves into heaven or all hell breaks loose. Remember most people on earth are not aware of Yahweh or Jesus, why would they over focus on the 5% disagreement, when more often than not (non Christian) they have their own Gods to disagree with.
Psalm 103:8 The LORD is compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, abounding in love.
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.
And I believe Christians do not become Christians because of the fear of hell.
I have very little or no fear, no guilt or shame , how is the possible for Christian, It's almost impossible to be Christlike and how could one not fear going to hell and all the unknown absurd rules in the bible, I do think that most Christians fear hell more than they fear God. Most Christians of today to go to Hell: Matthew 19:9 "I
Televangelist and churches have brainwashed many followers. Its the whole follow Christ or burn forever thing, Now how many Christian really know they are worthy of God's love.
its like do i fear superman or batman or spiderman....nope i dont fear them
Yes I do fear the God. But I don't know how that affects me. I feel that God's fear is more due to respect for him than any tangible threats.
The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. What do you fear of you don't fear God? People who doesn't fear God definitely do not believe in God. If you do not fear God,definitely you will fear the goddess or you will fear the president of your country or the military.
Wisdom is the ability to apply knowledge, reason and understanding and has nothing to do with fear. Fear only begets more fear.
Thanks for providing some examples.
pharuk temmy t
The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. What do you fear of you don't fear God?,definitely you will fear the goddess or you will fear the president of your country or the military.
More thread from bullies
I got a war project assigned to me by GW Bush administration, My whole family and friend ask or begged me to do it.
I refused the job , the downside later Bush refused all my work permits into the USA. The up side I keep my integrity , later on everyone of my close love ones honored my decision that I did not let Little Hitler Bush haunt my soul, today I have stop working for the rich and helping the poor like Jesus did. One thing that JC can be greatly honor for, was about Jesus stories in helping the poor
USA will fall like the Roman Empire
Sure, if one never read another book other than the Bible.
A troubled Man, I try to speak on what is and not what if. I read many other other books. I love reading. Sorry, but not you are anyone will gain wisdom from no other book but the Holy Bible. We can only gain knowledge from reading other books, but not wisdom. Please don't stay confused with these two words. Knowledge and wisdom is not the same.
Yeah, I'm the one who is confused.
Wisdom: Ability to apply knowledge, experience, understanding or common sense and insight. The quality of being prudent and sensible.
Again I say wisdom comes from God. I can see that you have received that definition from a dictionary. Biblically wisdom is desiring God.. Wisdom is the practical side of moral goodness. This only flows from the source of God. Feel free to respectfully agree or disagree. Take care.
And, I can see that like many other believers, you dishonestly redefine words to suit your agenda.
I can't agree respectively with something YOU'VE made up out of thin air using words that don't fit their definitions. You are not being respectful yourself.
I like that post WOC.
Wisdom comes from God alone.
"Do you Fear God?"
It is God who created nature. Nature is one giant killing field where most species live in abject fear every day of their lives. Any God that would create that kind of reality is probably a God that one should fear.
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