Why are some atheists so nasty?
Did you ever ask yourself why are some atheists so nasty? It is not enough for them that they lack any faith (in human or God); but they also try to ridicule and demonize the faithful people, at every opportunity that they get.
I believe that the atheists have an issue with the faith itself, in God or anyone else.
I personally never experienced God, but I believe in him because my parents believed in him and since I absolutely love my parents and believe in them, therefore I believe in whatever they have believed, as they believed in their own parents, and so on. That is the faith!
Tell me what do you think.Maybe they are as devout in their belief as are Christians and they want the right to function in an environment lacking religion.
Think about it. It is possible to live a lifetime and never encounter an atheist. You can go to church on Sunday, 'God bless' anyone in the grocery store and illicit a smile, work with people who thank God for a raise, etc etc etc. if you are a believer...that's nice.
Is it possible to live a life and never hear the name of God? Never have someone attempt to convert you? Never hear a public prayer? Never sneeze in public and not be blessed?
Maybe that's why they are irritable. I don't know why it matters, but it apparently does.Why are Some of the nasty people Atheists?
Does nasty look better on Ahheists or Theists ?You've asked an interesting question and I'm going to attempt my best and most respectful answer.
I think the ones that are nasty are the ones that get frustrated. The same works the other way around when atheists get the "you'll burn in hell" statement.
However, that being said. Let's have a look at what may be seen as frustrating from your last paragraph. I've heard this argument before. " You have to believe what you parents do". This is frustrating because you admit you've never experienced God and you believe in him because your parent and their parents do.
You are admitting you don't think for yourself and you don't think you should. Which indicates you may or may not believe in God, but your frustrated that Atheists asked you to think for yourself. Perhaps someone should start because you appear to come from a long line of (most likely nice) people who don't want to upset anyone so they don't think. That was not meant to come across nasty and I apologies if it appears so. I can't think of a more tactful way of expressing why we get frustrated.Rebellion coming from a prideful heart will cause atheists to ridicule Christians. That's a reason, not an excuse.
It's parallel to the original sin where the top angel in heaven decided to rebel against God.
It's a choice in humans. Because not all Christians believe simply because their parents believed. Many people choose to be atheist even though they were raised in Christian homes. There's that choice, like I said.Nope not it. I'm not rebelling from anything or anyone. You can't rebel against someone that isn't there. It's like your telling me I'm rebelling against Santa.
What one believes is not a choice if they have given it some thought. You can't choose not to believe can you. I had this conversation with a believer on these forms and he eventually agreed that it's not a choice. He acknowledge he could not choose to not believe in God.
2+2=4 could you choose to believe 2+2=5?Me personally, I don't know if I could personally choose now to not believe in God or not; I do know from hearing the account of other people that it is possible though. I say that because I made my choice a long time ago, and since then the Lord has stayed with me, watched over me, led me back to Him every time I started to stray onto the wrong path. So...I Love Him so much that I doubt that I'd ever reach the stage where I'd deny Him. I Love Him because He first Loved me! But then, as a human being, I do know that that's possible to deny Him. Do you understand that concept? It's a testament to the Lord's perfection and power when a person stays grounded in Faith, not necessarily a testament to the person's power at all. When we are weak, He is always strong; when we're tempted to fall, His hand is always there for us to reach out for. We have the option of praying for belief, even, and He will bless us with belief. The Bible tells us that Peter denied Christ 3 times, even after he had literally walked with Jesus and seen Him heal the sick, cast out demons, and bring dead people back to life. Yet Peter ended up as a faithful follower of Christ. You may say that Peter didn't deny believing in Christ, he just denied knowing Him. But it's the same principle, really. If Peter had wanted to withdraw totally into a different life, he could have. Instead he chose to pick himself back up and keep preachin' the Gospel.
And as far as people choosing to believe that "2+2=5".........eh...there are many people who choose to believe things that don't add up in any way, shape, or form; who supposedly believe that mankind evolved from apes, and/or that we're all just a part of the earth, and/or that humans are gods, and/or that the earth appeared (suddenly or gradually, take your pick) after a "Big Bang" which came from some atomic particle or whatever, and that that particle came from some other particle of who-knows-what? and/or that THAT particular particle came from some other unknown particle......etc and etc.
It's pretty obvious that they do choose to believe that carp. Because if they were really looking for evidence of Divine Creation, they'd see proof of that all around them and even in the mirror, because mankind is a special part of Creation and it's evident that the first man and woman were formed by God, and subsequently we were made (childbirth being set in motion by the act of sexual union between that man and woman) by an intelligent Divine Being, not sprung from some string of nothingness or unverifiable particle of...whatever.
So, yes, many choose every day to not Believe. That's my understanding of it from personal experience, from the Bible, and from observing human nature. Everyone can see the same thing. But many choose to deny those very things, those proofs both physical and spiritual.There are no physical or spiritual poofs that God exist. Not a one. We are unfortunately no different than any other animal on this planet and we are subject to the same natural laws. We are attacked by the same parasites and deceases. Christians don't get a pass on any deceases. Cancer is a equal opportunist.
Belief in God is not a choice. You choose what color to wear, but you don't wake up and decide what god to believe in. You yourself admit you most likely can't choose not to believe in God, it no different then anyone else. Show me evidence and I'll believe, but I see no evidence so I don't.
2+2=4 not 5. Can you choose to think 2+2=5?Apparently you have chosen to!
Congratulations on disproving your own theory!When you choose to believe 2+2=5 and that there is no God then you will have proven yourself correct.
Hey Rad Man, you’ve given me enough babble-on (Babylon) to write another hub. Thanks! Like last time. Remember the last time when you ranted and raged all over the forums and on hubs about the Bible condoning rape? And I called you on it and you went and hid under a rock?
Unfortunately, Rad Man, it looks to me like you chose to choose the wrong rock. Perhaps you should have chosen the rock of 1 Corinthians 10:4 (“that Rock was Christ”).
I just posted over on Brenda’s “Thanks to God for our patriotic military personnel!” thread that what I thought I was fighting for was “Among other things, the freedom for Americans to choose God, or not.” But you feel free to attempt to correct me, if you know what I was fighting for, and I don’t. So I chose God, and you chose not, at least so far. You can always change your mind and choose God.
Back to the specific subject of this forum topic. I like to stay on topic. The subject is “Why are atheists so nasty?” in case anybody forgot.
Rad Man, you’re an atheist, right? And you falsely accused me on the forums of physically threatening you and your lady friend, right? And then you played report monkey, right?
I spell that N-A-S-T-Y.
I’m just sayin.’Glad your back and I mean that. I didn't accuse you personally of physically threatening me because I didn't use your name. No one knew who I was taking about until of course know. Go have a look back and see. And I didn't report you. It wasn't me.
Why would you say I hid under a rock? I told you I would discuss it on one of my hubs, but you didn't show up.
I'd be glad to debate any topic you like, but let's keep it civil.LOL.
But you were talking about me, were you not?
And you knew why I was banned and I didn't, right?
Why shouldn't the subject in question be discussed on my hubs, since that is where the subject is already specifically being discussed? And you have already posted several times. The subject in question isn't even mentioned on your hubs that I recall. Please correct me if I am wrong.I didn't know why you were banned I simply showed you what you said in an effort to help. It wasn't me, and I'm getting a little tired of the accusation.
The subject in question was mentioned in one of my hubs, but it was taken down so I could turn on advertising. Perhaps it was taken down before you looked. I don't know and I don't care. If you like I can post the whole segment again somewhere and we can discuss it since it's so important to you. I don't want to revisit the tone of the conversations we had before, keep that in mind.The tone of the conversations?
You're the one who started a thread entitled "Most offensive reply" and went on a rant about somebody who I thought gave you reasonable and intelligent replies on your hub.
I'll tell you what. I'll start a hub entitled "Most offensive reply" about your post on my hub, and we can go from there.
I asked you if you were referring to me about physically threatening you. I didn't see your answer.
I have never met a nasty atheist. The problem is when Christians throw their 'authoritarian' talk at atheists and expect them to respect 'them'. Atheists don't want to feel like someone is trying to convert them so its wise to keep the talk 'scientific' or 'general'.
I think people can be nasty no matter what they believe. I know some obnoxious atheists who constantly bash Christianity (though for some strange reason they never dare say offensive things about Islam or Judaism), and some atheists who have manners and know better. Same with religious people. Most of them don't constantly talk about their beliefs or insult other people with different beliefs than them. When one does, it is undignified and rude. A jerk is a jerk no matter what they believe.
It's the same reason that some Christians are so nasty. As a result of horrific experiences by Christians of all denominations, I landed up with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder in 1984. It took me neraly 15 years to cure it.
The issue was that Christians assumed that I was the way I was because I was a snob, looked down on other people, etc. They also resented my looks and my 'private school' polish.
http://www.articlesbase.com/dating-arti … 25038.html
In reality, I had a sensory processing disability (auditory) and it was very difficult for me to process speech in real time.
The vindictiveness, jealousy, and nastiness that I experienced over a ten year period, resulted in my nearly having a nervous breakdown and I developed post traumatic stress syndrome.
During that decade, I prayed unceasingly, and not once, did God every answer a prayer. It was so bad that I thought when it rained for a church picnic that it was my fault because God was punishing me.
At this point, I'm an atheist. I don't associate with religious people at all. I'm only nasty to them when they try to speak to me about God. I've experienced their ignorance and their malice, and nothing on this earth will ever convince me that they know a thing about goodness.
My atheist friends, on the other hand, have never been nasty to me, and they continue to evidence the highest ethics I have ever experienced on this planet.Believers are taught to be judgmental from an early age. Free thinkers allow others to use their good common sense to reach conclusions, not the other way around. The old saying "Live and let live" is much more instructional than anything ever attributed to the old biblical novel.
atheists have faith in humans just so you know. that is the whole point about being an atheist. we believe in humans , not a mythical god that even believers can't agree on.
Thinks maybe atheists may seem so impertinent, since they have no patience and toleration for people who do not think for themselves, but accept context based only on emotion.
They are closet christians...don't let them fool you. They are here to test your faith...and boy! What a test!!!
+1
Marketing Agents -negative or not.
As the saying goes, any press -even negative/conflicting- is still press.
Often negative press promotes something better than anything else, just look at the daily news, BBC, CNN channels...I think they desperately want to believe deep in their hearts, and the reason they are as they are in forumland is as was mentioned earlier, to test us. They long for that killer argument that will finally convince them and relieve them of their pain.
Have to say it, but rubbish DH. I am an atheist, I never ridicule or belittle another because of their faith. I do, however, challenge so called Christians when they spew hatred at minority groups, which happens frequently in the religious forums. In fact, come to think of it, some of the people I really respect here on HP ARE religious, but they are not bigots. There is a huge difference between the two, I think you might find that on closer inspection it is the bigots that are attacked by atheists, not the believers. They are not attacked because we atheists are tortured, desperately want to believe, or are here to test you, if you don't mind me saying that is a somewhat egotistical statement for you to make. If there is a god, or Jesus, then I very much doubt he put us atheists here purely because he wanted to test you spiritually. Unless of course you believe that religious people have a greater worth than that of the atheist?? Another thing, to be an atheist does not mean that you are in pain, where on earth do you get this from? Contrary to what many of you are saying, atheism is a lack of belief, not a belief. We have not become atheists because we are tortured or envious, but because the lack of evidence makes us doubt the very existence of God or Jesus. However, there are atheists that do not rule out their existence entirely, we are just highly skeptical. Skepticism does not equate to pain or an alternative belief.
From where I sit, it is an alternative belief. I'm skeptical, but don't see enough evidence either way to make a clear determination.
I can unequivicably state that religion is bs. But, can I whole heartedly say there isn't a grain of truth within it? No.
Can I see how anyone has access to enough information to make a final determination? No. Hence, I see atheism as a belief. Atheists believe they know something for a fact that cannot be known.Emile, if you cannot see how anyone can have enough access to the truth to make a final determination, either way, then don't you lack belief, either way?
That would be the definition of an agnostic, I would think. I see an atheist as assuming they have enough information to make a determination.
But, we all chose a label. It may not be the same label someone else would chose for us.Agreed. For me, I define myself as an atheist because the weight of evidence suggests that it is far more probable that G and JC did not exist. Also, and more so when talking about faith, their existence (JC and G) are seen as a truth. That's why I can't see atheism as a belief system, because I can't see religion or atheism as an absolute truth. Does that make any sense? I don't seem able to express myself very well today.
Hollie, please accept my apologies. I was trying gently pull the leg of the atheist in the same vein as DD and James before. But I appreciate that my gentle humour did not come over in my post.
No problem. You're gentle humour does come over in your post now I've read it again (and know it to be humour) My fault, I keep telling myself not to post in forums after 10.30pm, my brains not fully engaged.
Why do you care what I accept or believe in private? It's none of your business, and therefore, it should not play into how you treat me as a fellow human being.
Do you hang out in Religious forums and ridicule believers? That is the focus here. Those who do, obviously aren't like you...you're nice. Or: You are one of those tricky atheist faith test elements, trying to lull us into a false sense of security. The thing is this. To a believer, those atheists consistantly belittle and ridicule, and that's the ONLY reason they are there, to insistently insult the intelligence of ANYONE who believes anything the atheist doesn't agree with. Very annoying, but none of them get 'bounced' when the insults fly...and laughing at someone elses beliefs IS INSULTING. They don't care that i5t is the HEIGHT OF RUDENESS, which only makes divisions wider. Acting so, they are no better than the CHRISTIANS they tend to focus on.
Just like some religious people, some atheists give the rest of you a BAD NAME! HELLO
That's it, in a nutshell. Most atheists are very rational, logical people and often highly educated. It annoys them to see people make statements which are logically flawed or unsupported by any evidence.
I've seen atheists have good-natured debates with reasonable, educated Christians who are prepared to argue meaningfully for their religion. However, I can understand how atheists get frustrated and angry with Christians who refuse (or are unable) to debate intelligently but instead resort to quoting scripture, or ignore the argument and change the subject, or resort to abuse. Which is what usually happens.
There are some nasty atheists in the world, just as there are some nasty Christians. Bashing either group doesn't make us any less nasty than they are, it only brngs us down to their level.
I try not to bash, but, I don't put up with nonsense from either side. Not christian, but not Atheist either. Gee, noone has ever noticed that I DON'T capitalize christian, but I did ATHEIST, yet, many of the atheists I have encountered here in the forums, really don't seem to grasp english well. Was that a bash, or merely an observation?
Why are so many threads started attacking atheists? You are making a lot of assumptions and bringing out those same people who are constantly attacking atheists. Personally, I don't care what anyone else believes.
There entire premise of this post is just to cause argument and for some to feel superior.
You will notice this forum is Religion and Philosophy...that doesn't mean that only Christians are allowed to post...There are two types of atheists... Those who don't believe in God, and those with a grudge
Of course, no one should be mindlessly "nasty" and I am aware that there are atheists out there who seem to personalize their anger rather than staying calm and sticking to the issues. Poking fun at the inconsistencies of religious belief is certainly not "nasty" in itself, however - aside from being entertaining, it can also throw up some real truths. Whether you like it or not, there are people like myself who see elements of religious belief as being frankly absurd, and a worthy topic for humour.
I believe it's just that simple for me. Faith in my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, my experiences, my relationship with him. I know God exists without a shadow of a doubt. I can't see the wind, but I hear and feel it. God is!
Now as far as atheists being nasty. Not sure. Never ran into one who challenged me on the scriptures or argued their opinions.For some reason I can not reply directly to your post, Rad Man. There is no Reply option.
I am directly on topic. The topic is "Why are atheists so nasty?"
You refuse to admit that you accused me of physically threatening you, although anybody with a brain bigger than pea than figure that one out.
Again, were you referring to me in your comment about you and your lady friend being physically threatened? What's so difficult about answering that question? This is the first step towards repentance. Admit when you have done wrong.
Again, you are an atheist, correct? You did something nasty, correct?
How am I not on topic when the topic is "Why are atheists so nasty?" I wonder.The Word of the Lord in Romans 12:3 " For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith."
Every one is created by God Himself and has designed each one of us according to His Image & His Likeness. In His own time the so called atheists will Bow down their Knees and confess with their Tongue that Jesus is Lord God of all Creation. It is we who are picked up from miry clay to lead and guide these people out of their so called comfortable living as an atheists.
We are therefore to Pray unceasingly for our brothers who do not believe in Yahweh and then Preach & Teach them the Kingdom of God - John 3:16 " 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. God Bless!I created this forum to demonstrate that atheists tend to be less educated; therefore they resort to insults, in order to ridicule an age old question that is on everybody’s mind: If there is a God and what is the purpose of life?
I have met many atheists and many believers in my life. As an Electronics Engineer, I am a believer myself. I have found out that highly educated people are believers as well, because otherwise how can you explain that most of the rich and educated people are believers in God?
I am a Jew not a Christian, but I regard Christianity as a monotheist sister religion. One lady commented that some people choose not to believe, even if they were raised in a Christian family. My answer to that is simple: Things are not always what they seem. People that appear Christians to the outside observer might not practice what they preach at HOME. That is why their children do not believe. I have thousands of family members that are all businessman, scientists and professionals, and they all believe. Those are some really smart people. We see God’s hand in many things around us. You just need to be able to see.
Interestingly enough, most of the atheists don’t know what they are talking about. They don’t believe in God, but they believe in scientific “theories”, without understanding them, or their formulas, and are not realizing that they are MAINLY based on assumption upon assumption, without any proof.
We know so little about this Universe, that it is ridiculous to say that we understand it.
Faith is what it is: FAITH. When you have a faith, you believe in something or someone and you don’t doubt it, just because you don’t understand many things and you can’t explain them. I wrote an article about my proof of God. For me it is engraved in stone:
http://hebrewbibleonline.blogspot.com/2 … xists.htmlDzephaniah .. is this forum a serioius or ppl hve no value .. its like a circus .s. its a topic we ought to be all so serious n let ppl have views and ask questions or discuss
I agree with you Rina. I think sometimes it is a circus. And dzephaniah's expression is typical of jewish belief that they are better than those they call the goy...or gentile. Its unfortunate that his understanding of God is misguided in that even though God 'separated' Abraham's offspring, it was to bring salvation to the rest of the world. Anyone who points out that the Jewish have a higher Ego than most would be considered anti-semitic. They themselves began the use of the word 'persecution'. Now Christians do the same thing. I really have no problem with God whatsoever. God and I are on good terms. But the 'people' who speak for Him...really have a lot to be desired. I can't stand those who think they are better and say 'they don't know what they are doing' or 'they don't know what they are talking about'. I think I won't post anymore on this particular portion of the forum. As some folks set in their ways could never respect anyone that doesn't think or believe the way they do.
dzephaniah
"I created this forum to demonstrate that atheists tend to be less educated; therefore they resort to insults, in order to ridicule an age old question that is on everybody’s mind: If there is a God and what is the purpose of life?"
It takes a lot to make my jaw drop to the ground, but this statement did exactly that.
You're obviously beyond ignorant.
Just for the record, you wouldn't have electricity, the telephone, a computer, or have NASA put men on the moon, if atheists didn't create them.
Every single bit of research indicates that atheists are the most intelligent and the most highly educated people on earth. This is NOT about your own experience.
This link introduces you to the atheists who created the world you currently live in. There are very few modern conveniences that you use that didn't emanate from an atheist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl … ucvo-kDU#!
For the record, the more highly educated people are, the more likely they are to be atheists. And the more ignorant people are, the more likely they are to be religious. That is NOT an opinion. That is a fact based on solid research.
I'm going to give you a few links for the research, but you're more than capable of finding them yourself.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the … w-evidence
There is also a correlation between high I.Q. and atheism and low I.Q. and religiosity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosit … f_and_I.Q.
Another thing that you probably don't know is that per capita, atheists have less crime, more ethics, and better morals than religious people. Again, that's what the research shows.
http://www.atheismresource.com/2010/ath … ligious-do
I have written quite an extensive hub on atheism. I'm not allowed to provide a link, but it's entitled Atheism, Agnosticism, and Why Atheism is Growing! Atheists and Agnostics talk! and you might like to view the videos and attached links to it before making the outrageous statement that atheists are less educated.
In addition, atheists know the bible better and more about religions than religious people do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTIBKZH3kzg
As I said at the beginning, you wouldn't have antibiotics, a telephone, or electricity if it wasn't for the creativity and brains of atheists.
I suggest that you get yourself a real education.Nothing like self righteous indignation as justification to over reach. Are you saying Bell, Edison and Florey were atheist?
Since Bell and Florey claimed to be agnostic, and aren't here to comment, should you change their claim because it suits your agenda? I don't know about Edison, but since you've made up facts about the other two I'm not inclined to take you at your word on that one.
Edit: As a matter of fact, making up facts in one part of your post puts the whole thing in question. And brings up another question. What is it with theists and atheists? Why do both sides arrogantly believe that they are better than everyone else and spend so much time attempting to convince us you are?
Is it ego? Is it insecurity? What?There is very little difference between agnosticism and atheism. Agnosticism are people who don't believe in god, but who also say they don't know if there is a god. Atheists are people who won't believe in god and say that there is no evidence for God.
Neither believe in God. My late father was an agnostic. I am an atheist.
And I'm 100% entitled to indignation.
EDISON DID NOT BELIEVE IN GOD!I'm agnostic. It is not the same as being an atheist.
You had every right to be indignant, but no right to make up facts.
To be honest. I don't think there is ever an appropriate time to make things up in a conversation.
Another edit. I looked it up. You are over reaching on Edison too. Did you research anything before you posted?Emile, the difference between an atheist and agnostic is the difference between light white and dark white. It's bs. My late father was an agnostic. He did NOT believe in God. In fact, as he lay dying he said to me that he wished he could believe. I don't believe in God either. Sure, I could call myself an agnostic. I can't say for 100% certain whether there's a God or not. Nobody can. Not even believers. There is no evidence either way. However, nobody can say that there are cars flying over New York either. It can't be proven. The difference is that the onus is on the person who says that there IS something to prove that there is (when no evidence of it can be found).
Whether one is an atheist or an agnostic, one still doesn't govern one's life by God. One still doesn't believe in God. An agnostic doesn't believe in god anymore than an atheist does.
An agnostic says, "I don't know if there is a God or not." How any anyone believe in god if s/he doesn't know if there is a God. Of course they can't.
The entire argument is stupid. It really doesn't matter whether one is an agnostic or an atheist. One still doesn't run one's life as if there was a god. And one still doesn't worship god.
Do you honestly think an agnostic is holier than an atheist. I know both. And, honestly, my opinion is simply that a lot of atheists hide behind the agnostic label because there's less public censure, while others just hold the scientifically correct version, that they don't know.
I don't know either, but I'm brae enough to say that I'm an atheist, because I'm willing to bet that if I can't see that there are cars flying around in the New York skies, my eyes aren't deceiving me. I use the same argument for God. If I have no evidence for the existence of God, I'm pretty sure he doesn't exist. Agnostics say, 'I find no evidence for or against God, so I'm not prepared to say."
Neither find any evidence for the existence for God. And besides that, it still wasn't Christians who invented electricity, phones, antibiotics, etc. All I'm saying is that all you people who want to slam agnostics and atheists, what did you bring to the world of today? Comparatively, most of the greatest inventions were brought to you by non believers. Believers brought far less to the world than agnostics and atheists.
If you want to go back to the stone ages, by all means be my guest. But understand this, your comfort and progress is mostly steered by people who do not direct their lives by god. So unless you want to say phones, electricity, medicine, etc. are really bad things, you need to go consider.This is typical of the militant atheist argument. I'm either with you, or against you. If I'm not with you, you attempt to lump me in with theists and insult me.
I'm not hiding behind anything and the arrogance born of ignorance from both far ends gets irritating at times. You guys really need to get a grip.Emile,
My argument is absolutely and utterly NOT typical. I have never read it anywhere before. Please provide evidence of that statement.
However, I find it fascinating that everybody is sidestepping the real point and picking on anything but the real point.
Why?
Because my response was to the OP who indicated in one of her posts that atheists were the most ignorant and uneducated of all people.
When I brought forth evidence that the opposite was true - that atheists were the most highly educated (and agnostics were the second most highly educated) and religious people were the least educated, all I get is an argument that one or two people are agnostic and not atheist.
That is absolutely and utterly besides the point.
The point is that the OP was completely wrong in saying that atheists were the least educated.
Why not just concede that the OP is wrong, and that atheists are the most highly educated people in the world? Why nitpick on stuff that is completely irrelevant? Why would you all do that?
Oh, I know why...
You've lost the argument, so you're sidestepping. Great technique. Cowardly method. I rest my case. Goodbye.I've never supported the OP. My first post in this thread was in support of atheists. However, I can't support arrogance, willful ignorance or false information from either side. Your entire argument is typical of holier than thou far end atheism. You are not more intelligent, nor are atheists as a group. You can't cherry pick, fudge facts and lump agnostics into your ranks. Well, you can, but you lost all credibility in the process.
Emile R?
Really? Well, obviously, you're not very well informed. I provided links to research for every single one of my claims. Did you actually check that? And the difference between an atheist and an agnostic is really nitpicking, as that was not the context.
For the record, there absolutely and utterly IS a direct correlation between intelligence and religion. Research shows that the more intelligent one is, the more likely one is to be an atheist. It isn't an absolute. There are people who are highly intelligent that are religious, but they are the exception, not the rule. Of course, I understand that people who are religious don't want to know that, and anyone who says that will be labeled arrogant. Sore losers.
Next, it is NOT arrogant to state facts.
It is, however, incredibly and utterly dishonest and ignorant to state that atheists are the least educated people of all time when the direct opposite is true. Why don't you have something to say about that?
So let me get this right...
You are so concerned about one side claiming higher ground than the other, that when there's a tsunami heading your way, you're going to insist that the people on the lower ground be accorded equal authority in telling people their ground is just as high as the hills the other people are claiming is higher? Wow! Now there's someone who wants everybody to be equally right, regardless of the facts.You need to educate yourself from an angle that doesn't start with bias. I can't help you with that.
Emile, I spent 10 years as a born again Christian. I know the bible and scripture sufficiently well that when I converted to Judaism, before I completed the course, I was given the honor or 'going up to the Bimah.' Trust me that does NOT happen. I was also voted to the committee in a leading synagogue. This was because in the year that I took to go through everything, I demonstrated an ample knowledge of Torah and all things religious.
In addition to that, I knew the bible so well at one point, that I could debate biblical scholars and win.
A few weeks ago, I was sitting next to a Jehovah's Witness and used the bible to pour holes in her argument - this after more than 30 years of not having read it.
So, please, when the research says that atheists know the bible and religion better than religious people, there is a reason. One of them is that a large number of atheists are the sons and daughters of priests and pastors.
You might also begin to question whether the pastor, priest or minister you are listening to every week is an atheist or not.
http://abcnews.go.com/WN/atheist-minist … 8ud69VfFGs
http://clergyproject.org/
Try googling 'atheist pastors.'
You know what happens when you really, really, really study the bible and when you really, really pray night and day without ceasing?
You become an atheist!
Perhaps you should go back and read what she was responding to. She has every right to defend yourself and believe or lack there of. Go back and read it.
The Message Must Be Believed
Heb 4:2 (Phi) For we too have had a gospel preached to us, as those men had. Yet the message proclaimed to them did them no good, because they only heard and did not believe as well.The Message Must Be Taught
Rom 10:14 (NIV) How, then, can they call on one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?The Message Must Be Understood
Mat 13:17-23 (Phi) "Believe me, a great many prophets and good men have longed to see what you are seeing, and they never saw it. Yes, and they longed to hear what you are hearing, and they never heard it. Now listen to the parable of the sower. When a man hears the message of the kingdom, and does not grasp it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is like the seed sown by the roadside. The seed sown on the stony patches represents the man who hears the message and eagerly accepts it. But it has not taken root in him and does not last long--the moment trouble or persecution arises through the message, he gives up his faith at once. The seed sown among the thorns represents the man who hears the message, and then worries of this life and the illusions of wealth choke it to death and so it produces no 'crop' in his life. But the seed sown on good soil is the man who both hears and understands the message..."The Message Must Be Confessed
Rom 10:8-9 (NIV) But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart," that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.Both Theism and A-Theism are beliefs... they are two extremes apposed to one another.
It's not theists nor atheists that have a nasty sense of arrogance but rather, people in general. I've met a lot of atheists that look down on others for their beliefs and ridicule them and I've also met extremists, fundamentalists, and just plain arrogant individuals that attempt to mentally torture those who believe differently or perform an act that they find wrong because of the book that they've read or the morals they have. I've met and made long time friends with a lot of devout Christians, Muslims, Hindus, etc because they are kind hearted people, naturally. Some people just don't speak with an open mind or an intention to learn. They know what they know and that's that. It's these kind of misunderstandings that lead to stereotypes when it really is just individuals. I've met some really arrogant Christians, Atheists, Muslims etc. and I've met some nice ones. It's people, not faith. What they know might influence how they act but that is just because there is an absence of understanding for others feelings, an absence of the golden rule, an absence of people and conversational skills. There's more involved but in short it's people, not what they believe.
You said: "Did you ever ask yourself why are some atheists so nasty?"
Thanks to your god that at least you didn't singled out everyone who's being Atheist, just some. I would ask you, how many? One particular Atheist, a couple Atheists, a dozen of them, hundred, or more?. How many Atheists do you know, and how well you do know them? And, what is it that they did do to make you decide to qualify them as "so nasty"? Did they harm you in a extremely painful manner? Or displease you in a way that was insufferable? Did they threaten your convictions and put you in danger of abandoning those convictions for good? Did what they said, psychologically unsettled you? Did they make you resentful by their reasoning shaking off your own faith? Have they changed you by action or deed, making you think about the foundations of your proclaimed belief and making you put in doubt why you believe something?
Nastiness is a very well defined and known quality that can be pinned on a human being, under demonstrable and precise conditions. Do you have the evidence required for using this qualifier? Because if you don't, then your exercise becomes an exercise of trolling. Nastiness usually is a quality of a response to somebody's action, although it also can be the initiation of a feedback loop when the response itself isn't warranted by that somebody's action. Like generates the like. Ad infinitum.
You continued: "It is not enough for them that they lack any faith (in human or God); but they also try to ridicule and demonize the faithful people, at every opportunity that they get."
I would again repeat the question, how well you do know them, as for vouching that they indeed lack any faith, and by the way, what is faith in your book? In what manner you perceive they tried to ridicule faithful people? And what does it mean "demonize"? This a strong word. More up to qualify a faithful believer who also believes in demons, than to qualify an Atheist who doesn't conceive of demons. Finally, "at every opportunity that they get," insinuates "always". Are you sure that you have positive proof of that being the case?
You added next: "I believe that the atheists have an issue with the faith itself, in God or anyone else."
Say I am an Atheist. It matters not for what I would say next, but it would play in the follow up. Let me say that I have an accountant who does my taxes, every year for the last four decades, Almost. Throughout that lengthy period I skeptically watched him. My observation hardly changed about his consistency in conducting our business in a professional and honest manner. He consistently answered my doubts with truthful responses that I could check elsewhere. So I can say indeed and being honest to myself and others that I have a solid faith in that man. I would be nastily surprised if that man would do something that would be wrongful and harm the business which I entrusted him to do for me. Most Atheists would have a similar faith in similar situations. So, can be said that Atheists have an issue with faith, when faith in others is always a relevant issue in our relationships? Is not having faith in a particular god, or gods in general, a terminal condition, a condition that transforms an individual in a faithless being/entity in all the human affairs? It can be said though, that faith is an issue of experience. Cumulative results which can be looked up, from series of related events, tangible in our perception. Which takes us to what you said as a follow up:
"I personally never experienced God, but I believe in him because my parents believed in him and since I absolutely love my parents and believe in them, therefore I believe in whatever they have believed, as they believed in their own parents, and so on."
The history of humankind is full of forgotten gods, in each case forgotten when at some point parents who believed in them became a scarce commodity until finally vanished within their communities, usually when they started thinking about why believing in such god and not others. Which led to switching gods (and beliefs) or just plain stopping, abandoning such beliefs, in other words, the god in question, being demoted to no-god. Not good enough for being a god. Therefore soon forgotten totally or reduced to being a footnote in the historical and anthropological records of humankind. What makes you have faith in that your personal god isn't already in the same path to oblivion? The fact is that very few individuals in a collective humankind of over seven thousand millions of individuals on the surface of our planet can truthfully claim the feeling of having experienced God ever. Note that I am not questioning the validity of the event. I just refer to the "feeling" that indeed it was experienced. The feeling should be valid, unless those claimants lied to themselves. So, where we find the cumulative results which build faith?
"That is the faith!" Should I ask again, are you sure?
"Tell me what do you think." Well, I just told what I think about the proposition that makes up this topic. Which brings to the mind the question: "What makes some believers to be nasty (no "so" in it) towards people who are Atheists?"People aren't nasty because of what they believe or don't believe. People are nasty because of ego. When the ego 'feels' threatened, it strikes or retreats.
In these forums, I've seen it on 'both sides of the aisle'.
These kind of threads will certainly bring it out more.
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