All of you that have come down on me hard about me being a minister and hearing Jesus's words, I ask you What kind of person do you think is allowed to hear Jesus?
What would be that person's criteria or job description?
I do not want Bible Verses, but your own personal opinion. Anyone can cite a ible verse, but can you tell me the answer that I seek?
Those who have sided with me or even those in the middle you can also tell us what it is that makes a person hear Jesus and what it is that one hears to be called a minister.
Someone who is listening to his or her inner self.
I would actually be interested to know what your definition of a "minister," is.
All I have seen from any so-called ministers is a willingness to fight with other so-called "christians," as to how to interpret the bible, and then preach their version and tell everyone else that all the others are wrong.
Mark, I will answer this aftre there are a few more posts here.
It really doesn't matter what I think or say, I am wrong to most of them that put me down. This thing is---I have been a minister for *4 years* and they are coming at me like I was just ordain yesterday. They are coming at me with that I don't know the Bible or what it says and that I just don't know Jesus at all and I am only listening to myself. They really don't have an concrete proof that what I hear is Jesus nor the fact that I don't know that they hear him too.
So I posted this to get a better idea of what the *Perfect* Minister is supposed to be. Like I said, It doesn't really matter how I say it or what I say or what verses that I can prove with--they simply want to tear me down. So let them have their say.
Although, as I have pointed out before - wars are fought over this, so good luck
I have said it before that I think you are beautiful and say it again,whoever is insulting you will never in this life of theirs get as highly ranked as me in poetry,spirituality or philosophy so why are you bothering about them-who are they?.
I care and I really dont care what they say,
Patiently I must accept what comes my way.
This sir dent has called my father a devil or some crap like that-I know who I am.
Reflects his weirdness.Insulting is the foolish persons way out of a situation.
For him the inner self is not Jesus so god is not your inner self
Like I said before this wise man said be like the sun-it doesnt see who goes into the shade or comes out-it just keeps shining.
Guru Nanak-you need to be in a similar vibration to understand me or you will think I am a liar or fool.Jesus was considered mad and a liar by some but was he ?
Still don't understand why you let them bother you so much. It seems counter productive to let insults take a portion of your efforts. But that is just me. Anyways I think a perfect minister would be someone who:
consoles a sad or broken soul.
inspires people to do what is good.
never takes credit to themselves but is accountable to themselves.
one who restarians themselves from negativity and fighting.
will happily spead cheer and joy no matter the circumstances
Offers love freely
gives people what they actually need and will accept, not what they don't need and will hate.
does service for the poor and hungry.
gives advice when asked
never turns their back to anyone in need, anyone!
is understanding of people
is still willing to learn and become learned.
can see their own faults
doesn't push to be known but becomes known through their actions or good will.
can teach the unteachable
never gives any credit to the Devil
speaks from their heart
is lovingly accepting of peoples beliefs
is kind in his/her message
will always forgive
remembers that time was given so that "everyone" can come to God.
Does not boast in him/her self.
Is never too proud
can admitt they have errored and are in error but know the reason why.
Is never afraid to do what is good regardless of what others say.
is not ignorant or forgetful of their purpose.
I guess that is enough, I am sure I could come up with a bunch of other things that make a perfect minister.
It is not just me that these things bother. Ever hear of the saying--- sticks and stone can hurt you but words can't--well that is false--words can and do hurt people.
words hurt way more than anything else ever could. Mark has already brought to light that wars are fought over these religious matters. And what more is a religion than just a complicated structure of words?
LG ... I'm very short on time these days, and would like to address this. Just know that I'm not ignoring you. My hubpage time has been a lot of "glance and go".
I think I owe Mark a novel or two and at least one appology on the Noah issue.
Anyway ... This is something I take seriously, so I don't want to just spout an opinion off the top of my head.
I appreciate you stopping by. I never knew you were reading, but then again that is a good thing.
Hi LG - I assure you will not attempt to use scripture to tear you down, but the opinions I think I may wish to share are based on scripture. When I formulate my reply, may I use scripture, to explain the basis of my opinion or would you like me to just share my opinion and leave the scripture out?
Preferrably without scripture. I can quote scripture too and they can be twisted around. This was my purpose to writing this post--to get people to think about what they are saying instead of just using scripture to say what they think what they mean. I am not sure that made sense....
OK LG ... this is almost a hub in itself ...
The word "minister" in the KJV is from the greek word Diakonos. It means "table servant". Jesus demonstrated his authority by washing the disciples feet and said that whoever wants to be a great leader must be a great servant.
If you are qualified and willing to wash stinky feet, then you may be qualified to be a minister.
If someone is not washing or has not washed stinky feet, then I will have problems recognizing his or her authority in my life. I am not, however, going to judge another's servant in areas that do not concern me.
It is God who calls some to pastors, teachers, prophets, apostles, evangelist etc. The purpose of these servants is to build up and encourage other members of Jesus' body. No human agent has the authority to bypass God's call. However, see the role of the Holy Spirit below.
Hearing Jesus' Voice:
The Holy Spirit is the author and ultimate interpreter of scripture. To those who do not hear the Holy Spirit, scripture will, of course seem like non-sense. When scripture is not used and understood within the context and in union with the Holy Spirit's purpose, it is scriptural abuse which leads to all sorts of problems. When we hear Jesus' voice it is most frequently via the Holy Spirit. Since God agrees with Himself, we see that it is the relationship, not the rules or the letter of the law. The letter of the law is death, and the Spirit is life.
When the Holy Spirit is present within an individual love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,gentleness and self-control will be evident. (This is the Fruit of the Spirit) Not as a matter of behavioral discipline, but naturally. The more of this is present, the more you can trust that someone really hears Jesus.
Those who are to be pastors, teachers, prophets, apostles etc. have an obligation to hear the Holy Spirit first and foremost. If there is truly a disagreement it is most likely that one or both parties are not hearing the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit may clarify scripture. He may correct interpretation of scripture. But He will not contradict scripture. Disagreement and worse most often occurs when God wishes to clarify or correct a wrong traditional interpretation (i.e Jesus vs. the Pharisees) OR Someone who believes the are hearing from God is not.
In other words, one or both parties in the disagreement are not hearing from God or are afraid they are not hearing from God. When we begin to rely on dogma rather than Raima (fresh revelation) our faith begins to die. It is important to not overgeneralize and when you hear something that challenges your interpretation. In each instance, Judge the fruit.
Consequences and Obligations of Hearing And Following Jesus Voice
I was raised baptist. In most Baptist congregations alcohol is a no-no.
I was on a business trip to a conference, and I was practicing listening to the quiet voice that Julianna (AEvans) was talking about when I heard, "Jack and Coke". It was clear and soft but distinctly Jesus and He was repeating himself.
I said, "What? What are you talking about?"
He said, "I want you to put down your bible, go down to the hotel bar, and order a Coke with Jack Daniels in it."
At this point, I had a choice to make, I could hold on to my old teaching, or trust that I really was hearing Jesus speak.
So, I put down the bible, went down the elevator and into the bar. As soon as I entered the bar, two men I kind of knew from the conference motioned me to join them. I sat. The waiter was there instantly and asked me what I wanted to drink. I said, "Jack and Coke", like I had been drinking it all my life.
The two men were thrilled that I was a Jack and Coke man. I was "instantly" in. It turned out that one of the men had a wonderful marriage for 43 years. The other, however was going through a divorce. The happily married man could not relate to him.
I had been divorced for about three years at that point. I was able to actively and compassionately listen to his pain and relate to him. I could offer him practical advice from experience. He was not abandoned or alone in his pain.
Jesus was more concerned about this man's pain than He was my baptist sensitivities. Had I chosen to hold on to my own "righteousness" I would have missed the opportunity to serve as a comforter.
The consequences have been this: I have been abandoned by people on both sides of the issue. People who were convinced that God would never tell someone to order and drink Jack Daniels and others who have been afraid of me because they thought I was spooky weird because they did believe me.
My Advice Is This
If you are, indeed, called by God to be a minister, whatever that means, then you don't need the approval of anybody else. But be cautious because those of us who teach are held to a stricter standard. I have no word from God that you are or are not. If you are, and no one else will, God will validate you Himself. If you are not, then I advise caution.
If you do feel the need for "something more", some validation from people, and God does indeed validate through people, then I don't recommend that you find someone who agrees with everything you say or will validate you just to make you feel good. Find a mentor, someone who demonstrates love, joy, peace, patience, kindness etc. Someone who will love you enough to speak the truth to you when it hurts you, or them.
Thank you. I appreciate that very much. I understand whre you are coming from too in the helping department. I do have a friend like the one you said. I also stated or was revealedd to me my purpose and that I should not have to have anyone's approval for this position that I hold in one of my messages that I was posting to someone on this thread/forum. I know who IAM and I am confident that I know who Jesus is and that I have truly been called. I think it was the part the Jesus asked those who were persecuting him who they think he is and it really didn't matter to him who they thought he was because he knew who he was. I know who IAM and I am confident in that. I know that this thread will continue because others are out right now and said that they will be back. That is fine.
Again, Thanks for this information.
You're welcome ... I hope it helps. Keep seeking Him with all your heart, Jesus will not reject a heart that truly seeks Him, he will keep showing more of Himself.
My son can pick out my voice out of many voices being heard at one time. Likewise, I can pick out his voice in a room full of children who are talking. So only those who are His can hear Him. And the Bible also states it. Jesus said, "My sheep hear my voice, and another they will not follow."
One who can hear Jesus acts on that. That action takes a full understanding that the Bible is completely true.
I will say what is not the action of someone who hears Jesus. It must not conflict with the major established translations of the Bible. It must not conflict with scripture. The Bible is the reference source of what Jesus is saying. The Holy Spirit is available to take our unique experiences and gifts to put that into action to glorify Him and honor His Kingdom.
Saying you have been a minister for four years, who does not believe that the Bible is true, is similar to a criminal saying that it is OK because she has been a criminal for four years and not been arrested and held accountable for that yet. Eventually truth does prevail. The analogy is just true in my opinion. I am sure it feels harsh, and please do not take it as me being mean. It is me telling the exact truth as I see it. I see what you are doing as perhaps much more severe than my analogy.
You said yesterday that you appreciate people saying exactly what they believe. I just ask that you walk the talk, then.
Do not be defensive about it and flame out at me, please. I am very serious about what I say here, and that analogy is not an exaggeration in my opinion of things. I would rather be held accountable for my sins here than for eternity.
If I did not care about what you do, I would not be here. You can ignore it or say you think I am wrong, or you can say what I do to work against Him. Please feel free to state facts about me. Please do not just give some angry, empty statement that I think I am great. If I thought I was great, I would say that. Instead, I always say that my opinion of myself is that I am a filthy rag. So, you and all those who like to insult me need to read what I write.
Then state facts. I have stated mine.
I have posted the scriptures that tell me to point this out to you on another thread. I am not against you, I am for Him. I think you are currently undermining Him, and that is just the opinion of one person, backed up with specific scriptures on another thread. I will be happy to quote them here if you forgot them (or ignored them).
Don't take offence with my words eithr. I am for HIM too, I just don't see things the exact same way as you do. I do quote scripture, but I do not like to "spoon-feed" you and others that cater to attacking others who are different in their thoughts, words and deeds. I posted this here, I think, that not everything is in the bible and the bible states that very clearly. We are only getting what, maybe ten persent of what Jesus did and said..........You take that anyway that you want too. Would you like for me to find that verse too? Oh I remember I said that I didn't want quoted scripture here....................
Backing things up with Scriptures really means nothing--because anyone can quote scriptures and they can at their descretion twist and turn the meaning around to what they want them to mean. That does not make a Minister.
That also does not mean that their meaning isn't the truth for them either or anyone for that matter.
Jesus asked those that weren't in agreement with him aobut what they say that he is. It didn't really matter what they said because he already knew who he was--and I know what I am. I just wanted to know what those of you who *think* that I am something different, ideas are and why you think you are holier than anyone else and what makes you think that you are the only ones who are allowd to hear Jesus's words.
So that is my standoint.
I have never said you couldn't hear Jesus. He speaks to you, but yet you listen to other voices. Then inner self is not Jesus. You speak of doing His will and preaching His Word, but yet you preach the words of others. We have gone over this on your hub have we not?
It seems to me that you want a larger audience than what you might get on your hub. Is this why you start these threads?
Well, I for one don't go near the religious hubs. I can't stand the level of holier-than-thou hatred and negativity on the comment threads.
So it has worked.
But I do love it when you guys start arguing over who is hearing Jesus' voice the best and who knows what rules all the others need to follow to be accepted into heaven......
Do it some more
Now that is a silly question and observance Sir Dent! Really it is laughable!!
Why do you write all your religious hubs?
Do I preach the words of others or do I preach the words that are in that Bible that you just overlook?
In my other hub I posted my source in the Bible, but you left ---not my fault if you only get 1/10th of the whole picture, which reminds me----wasn't it said in the Bible itself that all of the miracles of Jesus were not put in the books of the Bible because it would take up too many books..................aren't we all just getting a tenth of what Jesus did and said--according to what the Bible says on this anyway?
Now about the other people's words--so I am assuming that they can't hear Jesus either??
Seems you have nailed that one, SirDent. If she had wanted to know what your opinion was, she could have emailed you through your profile page. Or, for that matter, she could email any amount of people through their profile pages to find out their answers, too. It would have been nice and quiet and would have seemed genuine.
Ooooooh The catty one arrives. How very christian you are. "Seemed genuine."
What a perfect christian you are allshookup - for all your "family values," I have never seen you say one positive word about anything or anyone. Do your kid a favor and send him to school.
Seems to me this discussion was opened up on a public forum, and lets face it, we all know what both your opinions are.
And are you two following LG around just to shove your version down her throat?
You think if you browbeat her long enough eventually she will give in?
How very christian. I bet you miss the good old days of inquisitions and witch burnings
There is more than one way to read your pathetic book. And I for one am much more interested in some one who sees the positive in it rather than the negative, right-wing war-mongering garbage you two seem to favor.
Ask yourselves who is listening to Jesus and who is putting their own words in his mouth.
Thank you Mark!!! I knew that I wasn ot the only one that saw the things that you are seeing. Yes, there are good things in that Bible that needs to come out. Those who like Sir Dent, ASU and VP seems to give Satan more credit then he deserves nand doing so it belittles God. That is really sad, because that is why the ible was written. God can do anything that he pleases and sees fit and that includes putting Satan in his place, which I believe he has and so has Jesus.
They need to put more trust in Jesus and God instead of fear in Satan.
ASU- I think LG already knows SirDent's opinion then why would she again send him an email. Coming to emailing any amount of people then that would be way too much work for a simple objective. It is her choice finally how she wants to go about finding answers whether be it quietly or in a public forum therefore both can be genuine without being mutually exclusive.
I am going offline for a while so don't expect a fast response from me. Back later today.
I do have one more question Lady Guenevear.
Not everyone who hears Jesus is called to be a minister, so what was said to you, by Jesus, God, or otherwise to make you believe that Ministering was your calling?
Not like in the scripture where it says that some should not teach, but the message was to be preached to the gentiles and the world. So Jesus' followers were meant to spread the "good word" but not everyone was meant to be ministers.
I agree with that statement about not everyone being a minister. We can't have all leaders because then we woul have no followers and it would be hard to have things work for the best.
It wasn't words exactly but a knowing that called to me several times. I tried to ignore them many times. I don't know why I was called but I am doing the work that Jesus is prompting me to do. I hear Jesus and I have a strong repore with him, contrary to other's beleifs or subjections. I get answers or told what I should do in my sleep. That is the best time that he can talk with me becaeu my mind is to active durng the day. I also pray and be quiet when asking a question and wait patiently for an answer. I know the difference between myself and that of Jesus.
LG, you say you use the Bible which may be true, but then you twist words around and you also use other writings. You use agnostic writings. Do you know how the Bible is to be interpreted?
As far as my earlier comment about an audience. This is the 4th or maybe 5th thread started by you after a comment I made to you.
Wow now you are going to tell me that I can't read. Wow what a revelation that is hmmmm..........sarcastic--you bet your sweet bippy!
Now who told YOU how to read that Bible?
The religion forum isn't really a place where people should air their personal issues under the loose veil of having a religious argument..
Have a good day, folks.
2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
Scripture interprets scripture.
LOL., my point is that you can't just gloss over scriptures and know what it means. I would still like to address the fact that you use agnostic writings also. Most of the time you put those writings above the Bible. I have very little time left at the moment to discuss. Got things to do and places to go. I will catch up later on the thread though, that is unless it is hijacked as many threads are.
Allow me to explain.
Where there are obvious contradictions, these are easily explained away by using whichever is your preferred version to explain that the other part meant to say what the part you prefer said.
Thus avoiding any contradictions and ensuring that your version is the 100% perfect one.
Yet all their ramblings they have already ignored the comment that I made earlier:
"wasn't it said in the Bible itself that all of the miracles of Jesus were not put in the books of the Bible because it would take up too many books..................aren't we all just getting a tenth of what Jesus did and said--according to what the Bible says on this anyway? "
That doesn't matter.
The one tenth they have is enough that this will explain all the other 90%.
If you have already decided that the bible is 100% perfect, how can it be any other way?
You are barking up the wrong tree if you expect any of these bigots to accept that their interpretation of their 100% perfect book is anything other than 100% perfect
Personally, I do not believe in the christian god, do not think Jesus was an actual person and despise would not be too strong a word to use the way I feel about most religious zealots.
Just imagine what the world would be like if all the christians and muslims had taken the good bits and ran with them instead of what they prefer.......
Go do your thing, and make people feel good. We only get one shot, whatever these guys think.
Viral Prospector please read this! There are only 1/10th of what Jesus said and did in that Book-so no one has the whole complete story. Reincarnation might have een mentioned and you nor I will ever know because they did not wirte it down. It might have been a thing that everyone believed then so why would it be written down if everyone already believed in it..............
You cannot tell anyone what to do or warn anyone or even judge someone because you don't know the whole of Jesus's works-no one does........absolutely no one.
Do you want me to post the warnings direct from the Bible I sent to you again? The Bible is what we need to know of God's knowledge for us. Of course, every second of Jesus' life was not chronicled. The point is that you tell direct contradictions of the part that is included. Yes, I suppose that Jesus said to always listen to Viralprospector, too, no matter what he says, right? I doubt that you would believe that as something He did. Sure it is possible, though, if we just want to speculate as to what He did and said.
Why do you need to go there? You can't even get the part right that is in the Bible, so why do you need to go out looking for more? All I want you to do is get the Bible right. That is what the Bible commands, and I have written that to you. What is the big deal. All I am doing is telling the truth. If I am wrong, just say so. However, I am not interested in speculation when the Bible is blasphemed here.
The last person I want to read is MK. Give me a break.
No becaue I hear the word of God. What difference would it make, really. You have no athourity over me at all and you cannot sit in judgment at all. If God and the Holy Spirit are truly working through me like I know tht they are, then you cannot hurt me and Biblical warnings is all you can see and not the Loe of God and Jesus. What you focus on with be all the you will see and experience.
It is not your place to warn me or judge me but only God's place. Why are you so negative and only see the negative??
Why can't you see the love that Jesus and God has for all of us?
You certaily have not read the whole forum. So how is it working for you to only work from 10 percent of the information?
Try this site: http://mystic.nazirene.org/reincarnation.htm
Why is it whenever you are cuaght in a lie about the Word, you just twist it all around that Christians are not loving? Do you think lying to everyone here is loving? I think it is very loving to tell the truth, not lies.
VP - you REALLY like to call people liars, don't you? I bet if I compiled all the times you've used that word in these discussions, I'd have a whole page worth of just the word, "liar." I'll never cease to be amazed at how much you proclaim yourself as a righteous follower of Christ, but at the same time treat other people with extremely un-christlike creulety and childishness. The funny thing about it is, you only THINK you've cornered people into telling lies, but you have never done anything of the sort. What is your problem that you have to smear other people in order to feel secure about yourself?
Are you really deluded enough to think you are spreading Christ's love, kindness, peace, and mercy? You're a jerk to people, man. I'm not the only one who thinks so. I'm sure you are smart enough even to know that about yourself. Don't you think you might have something wrong when all you can do is behave in a manner which is contrary to Jesus Christ? You might have read all the words in the Bible, but you sure as hell don't shine the light of Christ. You sure don't act like one born of the Spirit of God.
Was I wrong or are these lies? Quit trying to dream up the "all about love" BS. Read the Bible instead.
Do you not agree that there are many alternate interpretations of the Bible? I mean, there are countless religious denominations, all differing in doctrine which they base upon the SAME BOOK.
You're being extremely short-sighted to tell someone that they are lying just because their interpretation of the Bible differs from yours.
Can't you see that LG just sees the Bible in a different light than you?
If you can see that, which I can't imagine that you cannot in some small way see that, then you are calling her a liar just because you can't handle the existence of someone who does not share your interpretation.
Do you think that you know the meaning of scripture and LG does not? If you think that, then you must think you are the only person in the world who sees the truth.
That fact alone proves that you are blind to the truth.
VP - there are different people in the world, you know? Open your eyes. God made us all different for a reaon. We all see life from a differernt, unique perspective. have you lost sight of this? WHy don't you start showing some kindness, patience, peace, and love in your posts? You're a tyrant, and you make a fool of yourself with every post that you submit.
That is hysterical. You flame out to the max and say I am a flamer. Thank you very much. That is the ole double negative equals a positive, quite a compliment actually.
I don't make any claims about myself like you do all the time. I am what I am. Yes I have a direct relationship with God, and I'll say that, but I don't go around calling myself righteous and humble like you do so much. If you didn't do that, then by all means, act like a jerk to any one you please, but otherwise bear the responsibility of your claims. I think someone should put you in your place, and I'll say that openly. Unfortunately, you have the safety of this being an internet forum on your side. You don't have to look people in the eye when you constantly contradict yourself. Your crap wouldn't get you very far at all if you were actually forced to own up to it.
You know I never understood what Maestrowhit is supposed to stand for, but it is obviously a false religious term for nit wit. Get a life, quit lying about what I write (I never said I am righteous), quite the opposite) and quit trolling me. Since when is it bad to be humble, by the way.? Hey you might try it...
Where did I contradict myslef? Certainly, these are not more lies are they?
You have made no point on this thread, as usual, except that you do not like me. We got it, OK?
you're one big contradiction, man. I mean, look at this post. You're a complete jerk in one post, and then in another post you call yourself a humble servant of Jesus. That is a contradiction. Nothing is wrong with being humble, but don't you see that calling yourself humble is in itself a contradiction?
You have to call yourself humble because your actions definitely do not show that you are humble. You have to use words to try to convince yourself and others that you are humble, because you behave in the least humble way.
Why do you have to proclaim your humility? Why doesn't it show in your actions? That's the contradiction.
Oh, and maestrowhit is just a little joke between me and my wife. It has no meaning. I am a musician - hence the maestro part also, my last name is Whitworth - hence the whit part. It doesn't mean anything.
You wouldn't last five seconds in a face to face debate or discussion. All you do on here is sidestep people's confrontations, lie about your intentions, and then call everyone else a liar. You don't own up to your actions. You don't take responsibility for yourself.
Excuse me?? I am not lying and I am not twisitng the word around.
Okay for all you who are not Roman Catholic-------------------you do not have the true meaning or scriptural reference of the Scriptures. Also your Bible's are not complete because there are 4 more books in the Catholic Bible then there is in any other version of the Bible today. I remember three of those books: Wisdom, 1 and 2 Junbilees.
Don't believe me and think that I am making it up--check it out for yourself.
I am not following her around. If she's going to post something in the forum, she should expect people to post on it. She started this thread. Seems to rally all the non-believers against the believers. But, hey, that's fine. That's the usual m.o. Kinda funny to watch who lines up behind her to support her beliefs. Tells a whole lot about her and her 'followers'. Very amusing to watch.
You are too funny--don't you know we can do the same with you? Do you think you are invisible! lol hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
I support no one's beliefs but my own, and I certainly don't follow anyone.
Happy Winter Solstice to you too. Or did no one tell you it is not really Jesus' birthday?
"Kinda funny to watch who lines up behind her to support her beliefs. Tells a whole lot about her and her 'followers'." Whose following you?
Well, since I'm only a human, I don't want anyone to follow me. No one deserves to be followed but Jesus Christ. Follow a human, and you'll follow them straight into hell.
I hate to be the one to burst your bubble but Jesus was a man--a HUman.
Hey, no worries. lady, there's not one thing you can say that will burst any bubble I have. I know Who and What Jesus is, although I am not a 'minister'. Jesus is all I need. And I have Jesus in my heart. So, no human can ever burst any 'bubble', as you call it, of mine. So, chill. I'm happy
Yeah, right, I think I'm invsible on a PUBLIC forum. You pegged it! Wow! You're way too smart for me! Whoa! I've been found out! I think I'm invisible! Wow, can you see my invisible airplane too???
As opposed to your wishing me a happy jesus' birthday through your profile picture?
Think of me as a mirror........
So I was right, you didn't mean it. Just checking.
I believe that God talks to you as I tell many "God Whispers and the World is Loud" if some would take time to listen it wouldbe a wonderful thing/
Can we have one thread in this forum area that doesn't involve bickering and petty crap between people?
That would be great only how would we learn.
It's sorta funny you just said that because bickering promotes more bickering. It's called instagating.
Dang sandy, I thought insta-gating was a quick way to get the entrance to my fenced in yard fixed! - sorry couldn't resist.
I am sure Billy Maze insta-gate will do the trick. I guarantee it or your money back. lol
Way too funny!! Keep it going!! I love it!!
Apparently not. LG as I stated to you yesterday on your hub, I'll leave you to it.
"Can we have one thread in this forum area that doesn't involve bickering and petty crap between people?" And just when we were having fun.
Who Can Hear Jesus? Those that listen to Him an do what he says, John 14:6-7,15. How many do this? Jesus said there were many in his day that did not, Matthew 15:7-9
Well it is evident if you are asking ,seeking and knocking, but some do not all seem to get the right picture because if they did they would all speak the same things Jesus spoke about, 1 Corinthians 1:10, Ephesians 4:25.
Who is a minister anyway? In 1Peter 2:4-10 > Peter said Christ has a priesthood of all believers. This means "all" but with different gifts from the Holy Spirit, 1 Corinthians 12:3-11. If you are humble enough and tremble at God's Word then it is a good chance God can work with you, Isaiah 66:1-2,5. It is not the wise ( 1:Corinthians 1:21-31 ) of this world who can know the deep things of God, but those who are humble enough to be called and chosen by God, 1 Corinthians 2:9--16, Matthew 20:16; John 13:18; 15:16-19.
These words say a lot to us. This is why all must be good students of God's word like the Bereans in Acts 17:10-12. I do not know of any perfect ministers and I have heard many who sounded really gifted but some of these same people do not believe the Holy Spirit is a person and fall into a ditch of unbelief. Jesus Christ revealed the Holy Spirit to us but some look somewhere else. Even the apostle Paul said he was not perfect and had to continue to wrestle with his human nature continually, Romans 7:18-25. But if you hear and do you shall be justified, James1:21-27, Romans 2:11-16. God will judge each one of us!
"Even the apostle Paul said he was not perfect and had to continue to wrestle with his human nature continually," So what's wrong with human nature.
My answer to the original post -
who can hear Jesus?
it's so simple.
the answer is - anyone to whom Jesus speaks can hear Him.
This apparently no so with some of us here! You have to be something or do something or act some way to hear him. They make it so difficult when, as you said, it is easy.
I just posted a new hub: http://hubpages.com/hub/Whats-In-The-Book
I do believe that alot of you will like this one.
Well Lady Guinevere,
The problem maybe that some men think women should not be in the ministry. This maybe why you are getting some heat. This hub is a great opportunity for us to learn from each other as has been said already, Iron sharpens Iron. There are a few places in the New Testament that seem to give the idea that God does not want women in Christ's ministry. But this is just a smoke screen from Satan to keep at least the other 1/2 or more, women, from preaching the Gospel. A woman's best friend s Jesus the Christ. He came to restore the equality lost in the Garden of Eden, Genesis 3:15, Matthew 28:18-20. We should not only hear Him but listen to what He said.
My present Hub is about this third major point of why women have been marginalized and kept from the ministry. See, ' Whats wrong with the Churches Today?'
Yes I do realize this very much and they won't come right out and say that is what it is. There is someone else that has a hubpage on here that is almost to the opoint of stalking me and I wonder when he will come in the forums that I am in just to antagonize me. He is a Roman Catholic and he just doesn't understand why my Roman Catholic husband doesn't suppress my writings.
As I understand it when Constantine put the pressure to be more popular and acquire the pagan beliefs into the Bible that is when men took all the control over anything and litterally shut women up. That is just my understanding, but there are non-christians who also share these feelings.
This is just a thought--if I hadn't told anyone who I was and what I AM would they have treated me differently?
There is something else that at least Sir Dent claims that I am doing and that is going beyond what Jesus said or taught in the Bible concering things like Karma and Re-incarnation. He claims that Jesus and the Bible doesn't have those in there. I won't post all the scripture on Re-incarnation but concerning Karma= Cause and Effect= there are lots of passages that talk about this very thing like for instance: The Golden Rule - Treat Others as you would have them treat you. What ye shall sow, ye shall also reap. Vengeance is mine, says the Lord. Love Thy Neighbor as Thyself,. Judge Not least ye be judged. There are more if you would like to go searchig on your own.
I heard something interestng this morning as I was channel sufing to get to one of the music channels on my TV.
I heard that those who cannot or do not hear the word of God are the one's who do most of the fighting.
I just thought that I would share this.
"I heard that those who cannot or do not hear the word of God are the one's who do most of the fighting." I have never heard the word of god in my life, and I have never had a physical fight since high school where I was attacked.
I actually agree with some of your post. It is the first two letters of what happens to us when we die - 'r' and 'e'. However, I believe what the Bible says, as usual, not some internet foolishness. The correct word is resurrection, not reincarnation. Nothing in the Bible conveys reincarnation. Rather, it is clear that God made us in His image. Then, we die and face judgement. We go to the Kingdom of God or to hell.
You are free to believe as you wish. I am just telling you that your view of the Bible is incorrect. There is no scripture that says God just lets people reincarnate. Creation is God's alone.Our eternity is Jesus' alone.
Here are a couple of scriptures to clear it up for you.
Hebrews 9:27-28 says, "And just as people are appointed to die once, and then to face judgment, so also, after Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many, to those who eagerly await him he will appear a second time, not to bear sin but to bring salvation.
John 5:28-29 says, "Do not be amazed at this, because a time is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and will come out – the ones who have done what is good to the resurrection resulting in life, and the ones who have done what is evil to the resurrection resulting in condemnation.
As usual, I warn you to quit twisting the words of the Bible. We cannot die once and face judgement - and have reincarnation. The Bible does not lie...
Well you can twist them and warn me forever. I have verses too that do confirm re-incarnation. So I also asked that no one post scriptures in this thread.
You cannot harm me nor do anything to me. Warn all you want and to your little hearts desire, it will do no good here or anywhere on these hubpages.
All about Reincarnation in the Bible, scriptures and all:
http://www.reluctant-messenger.com/rein … ws9-27.htm
Hi LG! Read it ... it was intellectually fascinating, but my spirit did not respond to it with the "hey truth" thing I get when I know it's right.
I get that truth thing from that. Well actualy I know that I have been here before. I don't think tht all those children who can prove where they lived before and show the places and such are liars nor do I think that they have active imaginations nor do I think someone planted those things in their heads.
Not all of the miracles are in the Bible either and we may never know of those. I don't think that we die at all but have many different bodies as in to throw out any reconginition from our other lessons in a next life. Yes, we only die once, when and only when we are completely Christ-like.
Some may call all this Scieence Fiction, but I can assure you that what we all thought as science fiction a century ago is reality now.
Love changes everything........
I don't call it science fiction. I call it blasphemy.
Your cell phone is blashemy??????????
Medical research and the healing oif certain cancers is blasphemiy???
The Microwave is blasphemy??????????
The new cars that you drive are lasphemy???????
Pagers are blashpemy????
Television is blasphemy?????
Space travle is blasphemy??????????????
Governemet Remote Viewing is blasphemy???????????
Mind control is blasphemy?????????
I can go on and on and on.........
No, you lying about the Bible is blasphemy.
Oh so all those verses that that man took from the Bible are lies now. They are right from the Bible--so how can they be lies???????
I even use verses right fromt he Bible and you still call it lies. No matter what I post or where it is from or even if it is from the Bible itself you will always pick a fight and call me a liar.
You can twist and turn those verses to your liking and you will come out smelling like a rose, but then again I can do the same thing to my perspective. Scripture gets so abused-that is why I chose NOT to have anyone use scripture here. Apparently you can't read other's posts and my responses--like to BDazzler and such.
Not one of the above are in the Bible--so does that make them lasphemy? When peope are cured from diseases that were considered deamons in the Bible times--does that make it blaphemy that they are now cureable and are not demons?
I'm sorry ... I said I do not get that ring of truth. If you do, then you, of course, must follow it. I do agree that love changes everything.
Thanks for that link. Yes their have been far too many documented medical cases where the person remembers the previous birth details to dismiss reincarnation as a false concept. Also many Doctors (including some American Psychiatric Doctors) have used past life regression therapy successfully.
http://www.regressionacademy.com/past-l … apists.htm
Thank you Country Woman. Of coure you do know that those theories and documentations will be called of Satan and his tricks upon mankind. So be it---they cannot dismiss God's works and these are God's works.
Thing here is that if you focus on Satan nad his deceitfulmess that is exactly what you are only going to see and experience. Now if they concentrate more on God and Jesus, then that is whaty they will see and experience------Cause and Effect equal Karma...
BDazzler--did you read the links on the bottom of that page that I gave you or did you just skim the first page? Just curious that's all.
It is funny how you accuse others of not reading your material, taken from who knows what goofy website or another. Yet, I directly show that you lie about the Bible (straight from scripture), and you do not respond to that either, you know what I mean?
By the way, who cares if you want scripture posted. This is a forum, not your personal hub. The rules belong to hp here, not you. So, we will post all the scripture we want. However, I can see that you would not want to read the ones I just posted that show you lied about reincarnation being biblical. Hopefully, one day, one of those scriptures will hit home for you.
Actually there is another explanation, demon possession. Demons are real, according to the Bible, so for people to think lies is predicted by the Word of God.
Sir- I humbly ask you a question: Have you gone through those links that I sent?
I also do believe in spirits and have even seen in TV about those things. Their are studies conducted which show the difference between those who successfully undergo past life regression therapy and those houses/places which are haunted by spirits aren't the same. I am not saying I know all the answers but certainly the more we seek answers then we know that their is more to know.
They are very afraid to seek becaue they have been told they wiil go to hell if they do. One needs to question the fear in that logic. Until they can no longer fear that which they are told they must never do, then that will be the time they will seek out. It's kind of like putting your turst and all your eggs in the basket of another human and not in the All That Is.
Both Hebrews 9:27 and Revelation 20:6 are talking about the first and second death or for those that pass the test the resurrection of the soul and the resurrection of the body. Other than the elect (the saints), the resurrection of the body will happen on judgment day for those that are written in the book of life. Try re-reading that whole web site (not just that one page) with the understanding that we are living in the millennial period (1000 years) right now. You may have second thoughts on reincarnation. I see the publishers of this web site believe in purgatory, where souls go until judgment day, they are right on that account.
There is no need for another life on this earth, which would involve further inequalities. There is a better life than this, afterwards and elsewhere.
Just to correct one misconception this web site tries to proclaim. Anathema does not mean to be put to death. Anathema means a condition placed on anyone who rejects any dogmas of the faith, thereby expelling oneself from the Church. The person expels themselves from the Church by rejecting a dogma, that's all. It can be reversed once they understand the dogma correctly and repent of their sin.
Please don't consider this an attack.
what if you know in your heart of hearts that it is a bad church and you reject the teachings in the church by the pastor or otherwise but not the scripture?
I mean, why would I want to repent for not accepting the dogma of a certain chuch and explelling myself from it because I didn't want to be apart of the 'bad' things they were teaching?
Not at all to say that the people who attended the church are bad, but some of them, omG! Certainly there are places other than church were people can talk smack about other dogmas, like Mormonism and stuff, but is that apropriate in a church?
I heard some people in this church referring to themselves as people other than gentiles. I would think that even if someone really wasn't a gentile they wouldn't be so boastful in their ways about putting themselves above the rest... anyways rambling.
There is no need for another life on this earth, which would involve further inequalities. There is a better life than this, afterwards and elsewhere.
When we finally come to our senses we never return to this material world ,this painfull playground we mistakenly call home -Krishna.=Jesus=Buddha=same thing
Tell me one halfway respectable religious scholar that believes that.
Hes isnt a religious scholar is he doesnt believe it. :)His knowledge of god is very limited in that case.
According to you the religious scholar says only Jesus is a prophet fake scholar.
Of course you cannot list anyone who believes Jesus and Buddha are equal because there is not one. Mohitmisra, if you stick to Hinduism, I will leave you alone. It is a religion that I am not interested in learning, so I ignore your posts about it. However, if I see you blaspheme my Lord, I will no longer pull any punches with you. Please just stick to what you know. Stop trying to pretend that you have some great new knowledge. Many false teachers have tried to gain accepatance with that same tired line.
Please refrain from using Christianity in your posts. I want peace with you, but there is no peace in blasphemy of my Lord. Satan is my enemy, and if you continue to protray his teachings here, I cannot just assume that you are a nice guy, so let it slide.
I hope this agreement will be acceptable to you, so that we can have peace. Equating Jesus to anyone will not bring peace to you eternally.
You have no idea what enlightenment is or the light meaning the Holy Spirit and thats what Jesus spoke about.
Have you come across the Holy Spirit?
Your knowledge is very limited if you read you will see the Buddha and Jesus spoke the same thing.This is your ego and attachment to your religion.Do you really think God is only with the Christians.Fanatical behaviour according to me.
How can one be called a religious scholar if he doesnt understand the meaning of enlightenment.
I see you blaspheme my Lord,-you dont know what god is.I am the religious poet who writes in praise of god and respect all the prophets including Jesus.
Little knowledge is dangerous as it leads to fasle assumptions,improve your knowledge on other prophets and you will see the one in all.
It may be a fine point, but it appears to me that Buddha is more like Solomon than Jesus. Both Solomon and Buddha were pursuers of light and wisdom.
Probably the biggest difference between Jesus and Buddha can be summed up in the word "light" (and subsequently 'enlightenment') ...
Buddha said, "To walk safely through the maze of human life, one needs the light of wisdom and the guidance of virtue. "
Jesus however said, "I am the light of the world".
I believe that both Jesus and Buddha were men of the highest integrity. I believe that Buddah, like Solomon knew and taught on the need to seek light. Both men are to be honored for their wisdom.
Buddha, very wisely, said, "We need light".
Jesus is a little difference. He said, "I am the light".
That is an extraordinary claim and one well worth meditating upon. It would be a disservice to both Jesus and Buddha to charge into an angry debate on their differences without first seeking Light and Wisdom.
Buddha was an enlightened one so when he says one needs the light or when Jesus says I am the light it is the same thing ,both talk of the Light.
viralprospector says he doesnt understand the light so how can he understand Jesus? Both were enlightened ones,humans who died went to the source god -the light-the holy spirit and then came back and spread the knowledge of the light. Read on Buddha the Buddha sutras then you will see the smilarity in Jesus and Buddhas words.
BDazzler I like this about you-I believe that both Jesus and Buddha were men of the highest integrity.
It is true they both speak of Light. And it is also true that I have studied less of Buddha than I have of Jesus, so I may need to look a little more into this before going into a detailed discussion. But from what I know now, I do not believe they were saying exactly the same thing.
But on the surface, (from what I can tell now, without doing more study), it seems to me that Buddha was seeking Jesus. Jesus said that He pre-existed, that He came to Earth at a time in history of God's choosing.
Based on what I little I know of him, I believe that Buddha, like the Wise Men, was looking forward to something, he didn't know exactly what, but he called it Light. I believe that because Buddha received truth with gladness, he would have embraced Jesus gladly.
Perhaps, like Abraham and Moses, Buddha was given a preview of the Light, and like Moses, it fundamentally changed him. We know that Abraham, Isaiah and Moses were all given a glimpse and a promise of Jesus. Maybe Buddha got that same glimpse.
Paraglider once asked me if I had seen God. When I told him of my experience, he described it as an "Ecstatic Experience" and because any words I could use would not do it justice, there wasn't much more that I could say.
When I say I saw the Light, I mean that literally. What I saw made the sun look like a 60 watt bulb. Jesus was an integral part of that Light.
I respect Buddha, I truly do, but there is something unique and extraordinary about Jesus.
This is where there is a major gap between modern Christianity and other esoteric teachings. Buddha was never seeking Jesus. He was seeking God. In modern Christianity Jesus is not separated out from God, because "Jesus became God." This is the same achievement - the attainment of enlightenment - from the human standpoint it is no different to becoming God. Enlightenment in esoteric traditions is this level of a reunion back with God. It's a unity or reunion with the source of ourselves.
I'm wondering if your perspective about Jesus being extraordinary is because your path, your learning, what you have been taught has primarily been from the standpoint of modern Christianity, and so you don't have the same 'connection' or understanding of the life of Buddha. See - with Buddhists for example, they would say that Jesus was a man who attained enlightenment. They see it from their perspective.
And in any spiritual tradition - the attainment of Enlightenment is extraordinary - there is no question of the difficulty to attain it.
Correct the Buddhists will have no problem calling Jesus a great master an enlightened one or a Buddha.
It would be disingenuous of me to claim to know any path but the one I've walked, and to claim to have knowledge that I have not learned. But on the path I have walked, not in just in scripture, but in my experience, and within the visions I have had, Jesus has himself claimed superiority over all other prophets.
I have been called insane because of my visions, and I can't prove I'm not. But if I'm not, if I truly heard what I heard, then Jesus is either a liar, or superior to all who came before him and all who came after.
I can't walk any other path, and I can't reconcile what I know with other paths. All I know for certain, is that I was a thirsty man who found water. I gladly tell other's who thirst where I found it.
Yes but he is supposed to come again right?
Jesus is what is called Maha Avtar by the Hindus or the greatest of prophets.There are many avatars but few Maha avatars only 10 and according to some 11 the same enity is manifesting itself over agin.
According to ISKON or the Krishna movement Krishna is considered the greatest of prophets.
For the Muslims Mohammed is considered the greatest.
For the Parsees its Zaratushtra.
For the Jains its Mahavira.
For the Christians its Jesus.
For the Buddhists its Buddha.
For the Sikhs its Guru Nanak.
For me Krishna,Buddha,Zaratushtra,Mahavira,Jesus, Mohammed and Guru Nank are One.
This type of purported statement would concern me if I heard it from "above" as it could sound like a judgment and Jesus would not say he was better than any other Sage or enlightened one. But I'm wondering if it was a way for this presence to have you align to 'him'. Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not going into right or wrong here. I've spent many many years meditating and mapping states of consciousness. I've 'seen' enough to understand that it is not always easy to understand what's being said and that 'messages' can be interpreted in many ways. (To LG, my first answer to your topic - days ago - was "How do you know it's Jesus." It's always a good question to ask.) Discernment and cynicism and skepticism is a huge positive when dealing with situations like these because it's through the questioning you find truth. At the end of the day that's all you have.
I'd love to hear more about your experiences BDazzler. I've had quite a few myself - even I thought I was nuts. But I don't worry about the nutter things - I got over that part.
I'm not Buddhist, no longer Christian in the modern sense of the term, in fact I no longer put on a hat of any kind. And the further I get into my own quest, the less I use the term God. Not that we don't have a good relationship, we do. But it's not necessary to define it anymore. But I was Catholic, I didn't understand it - but I didn't have choice when I was in school. It was much later that I started to interpret scriptures and put them into the context of my own experience. Geez, it's a whole different ball game, and it made sense.
Having been Catholic I get a gist of Jesus. But I know from the depths of myself that Jesus is not God in the sense of a my understanding of God.
I also know that my personal alignment to a presence is not that of Jesus, though it is as virtuous and divine to me as I know Jesus is to you. I can almost feel the backlash from some posters in this forum that I am honoring a false God. It's not the truth, I know the difference.
One thing that I find a positive, is to learn about other traditions because in doing so, many pieces of the puzzle fit. You yourself are having experiences which you cannot ignore and in time the experiences you have may not be explainable from modern texts or texts you have read previously.
Indeed, one of my mentors (well more than one probably) have told me that it is vital to be able to live amidst mystery. It is vital to have my mind transformed such that the impossible becomes logical.
So far, it would be more accurate to say that my experiences have clarified the more obscure parts of the bible, small truths hidden in corners, and in obscure passages, but clear once you see them. The problem is that trying to correct or expand upon scripture to someone to whom the Holy Spirit has not yet revealed a particular truth is asking for problems. Either they will not understand at all, or worse, not seek for themselves. I simply point to what I've seen and those that care to, seek further.
I do find myself going back to the paleo-Hebrew to uncover the deeper meanings of the writing, rather than relying simply on the standard translations.
I have also found that the writings of Sundar Sadhu Singh have been very helpful.
Sorry for butting in but this is what I meant earlier by saying one may read the Bible or some other holy text all his life but will not really understand it unless he or she has come across the holy spirit or god or the light themsleves.
The problem is that trying to correct or expand upon scripture to someone to whom the Holy Spirit has not yet revealed a particular truth is asking for problems.
How can someone call himself a religious scholar when he doesnt know this fundamental truth.
At the same time now you have a job to correct those who misundertand the scriptures.You will work like Jesus did -become a messenger of the light.
I am thy shield and thy exceedingly great reward-The Holy Bible
Now you have become a knower of the shield and the reward.
"I am thy shield and thy exceedingly great reward-"
Interestringly enough, that was one of the early texts God brought me to in this journey.
"The Buddha" (the Awakened One) got enlightened in Bodh Gaya.At age 35, after many days of meditation, he attained his goal of becoming a Buddha.
Its like Jesus saying me and my father are one.
So if he says we need the light or I am the light its the same thing.All prophets come to the planet when the planet is pretty much in a mess to restore it and yes its gods will.
If you have seen the light then you have seen and understood what Jesus and Buddha and all the sages have been talking about all along.You would also now know that this light pervades the entire cosmos and is pure love.
We all come from the light which can be called our father or mother and will all go back to the light.Yes the light is the ultimate ecstacy possible ,nothing on this planet comes remotely colse to it.I had this experience in the middle of the Atlantic ocean while working as a navigating officer in the merchant navy.
Buddha received truth with gladness, he would have embraced Jesus gladly. the prohets love each other as they are brothers of the light doing gods work. :)They both come from the light which is their essence and so they are One.
The Hindu philosophy says that all prophets are incarnations of Vishnu
You say, "The Hindu philosophy says that all prophets are incarnations of Vishnu."
What does the Bible say of that? Please be specific. You want to tell me what I know of Christianity, as if you know much. So, specifically tell me what the Bible says of that statement. Plese don't talk in circles. It is a simple answer that lies at the heart of my disappointment in the words you write on this website.
When I spoke of the light you said you had no idea what the light is ,what I am talking about so when Jesus says I am the light it means you have no idea what he is talking .So you really dont understand the meaning of Christianity or Jesus properly.
You might try not to assume you know about me. I have never told you about me. If you were the man of peace you claim to be, you would ask about me, and I would tell you about me.
You make all sorts of accusations that you have no idea about. Why? A man of peace should be peaceful, not telling lies about another man. He should show restraint and above all the truth. How can someone have peace and lies? You can't. It will eat you up.
you're a broken record, VP. "lies lies lies, they're all LIES!!"
What's the matter, can't think of another word? You can't just call everything you don't like a lie. You see, VP - that's not what the word "lie" means. A lie, as has been defined to you elsewhere on this site in a similar situation, is simply the telling of a KNOWN falsehood. WHen someone believes in a thing, like Mohit here, that thing they believe in is what they KNOW to be the truth. Now it doesn't agree with what you know to be the truth, but that doesn't make it any less true to him. At least Mohit has the decency and self control not to blurt out "liar!" every time he's faced with a challenge.
come on, man - I don't need to tell this stuff do I? You know what a lie is, don't you? Yeah, I think you do. I'm just one of the only people who won't let you just slide by with no resistance whatsoever when you pull this retarded crap. I know you'll come back with some more of it, but at least someone is saying it how it is to you.
Hi, resident VP troll.
Here are a few of Mohitmisra's lies FYI:
1. You have no idea what enlightenment is or the light meaning the Holy Spirit and thats what Jesus spoke about.
2. Your knowledge is very limited...
3. This is your ego and attachment to your religion.
You see Mohitmisra does not know me any better than you do. So, the only one who is capable of the three of us to describe me is me. I have no interest in describing myself here. Why are you so eager to describe me. As I siad many times, I am just here to tell the truth of the Bible. How would that give you any idea of me? This is absolutely not about me.
Try reading my posts to understand me just a little. I expressed to Mohitmisra that he does not know me. You don't either. Just settle down a bit. Try reading the Bible in your spare time. I would think it could cure trollish behavior...
You said you did not understand enlightenment or the light which means the Holy spirit yet you claim to be a scholar on the Bible- strange world
You say I am slandering your god by comparing him to the likes of the Buddha- strange people
You claim Jesus to be the only true prophet. if thats not ego and attachment to your religion ,what is it?
Try reading other spiritual masterpieces in your spare time it will give you a better idea of God.Also read the Hindu holy books and you will see that thousands of years before Jesus the Indians allready knew of the light and that Christianity seems like an offshoot of hindu philosophy.
Jesus says I am the light which in Hindu philosophy is Ahambhramasmi I am Bhrama the light
or Shiv ho hum -I am the Shiva the light.
I am just here to tell the truth of the Bible. How would that give you any idea of me? This is absolutely not about me.
Its about you and not the Bible.
I don't know anything about Jesus being the "only true prophet" since that would negate the ones Jesus himself called prophets ... however... I don't think it's ego if we take what Jesus said about himself literally. I know you believe that it's the same thing as Buddah, and I can't reconcile that with my path. Except perhaps that this situation may well be covered in Romans 2:1-16, especially vss 14-15)
It absolutely would be ego if we somehow consider that we deserve Salvation (Enlightement?), or if we boast about ourselves rather than giving Jesus the full credit He deserves. The path I've walked began with Jesus. But to claim that makes me superior ... that would be ego.
Jesus says you can sit next to me in the kingdom of god not below me or above me-One
From the light comes all and goes back to the light,there is no greater or lesser for the light
nice line I don't know anything about Jesus being the "only true prophet" since that would negate the ones Jesus himself called prophets.
You said something like which religious scholar sees the similarities between Jesus and Buddha didnt you?
Wasn't Jesus becoming the Spirit of himself risen from the dead, reaincarnation?
Or isn't Jesus being God in carnate, reincarnation? I am confused. Isn't dying and coming back to life reincarnation?
We are not Jesus. He rose from the dead because He is God. Reincarnation is coming back as something else. Lady G. was not talking about Jesus' rising from the dead.
VP ... I was following you pretty well, until that part, thought you were a little rough, but that is your choice ... If Jesus rose from the dead because He is God (and I don't deny that He is... He is...) what about Lazarus, the man in Luke 7, or all those people who came back to life on the day of the crucifixion ...
But, you are correct saying resurrection is not reincarnation ...
So, John the Baptist ... was he the reincarnation of Elijah? What did Jesus mean when He said John the Baptist was Elijah?
yeah, I would like to know.
though it does make sense what LG says about the glorified body. And I almost snotted out laughter about the donkey comment VP.
What? Go back and read the passages. I think they are in several books of the NT. Jesus was just saying He was no prophet. Of course, John the Baptist was not the reincarnation of Elijah.
I am not trying to be rough. I am trying to get the truth of the Word told, not a bunch of crap. People read this and may be influenced. It is important that Bible not be blasphemed, don't you think?
I understand that when I try to get a speck out of someone's eye, even after the log is out of mine, I'm very careful with the person's eye. It's a very sensitive area and being rough could do more damage to the eye than leaving the speck in for a while.
That may be the source of some of the confusion ... the distinction. Paul addressed this in some of his letters as did Peter and John (I believe) ... the resurrected body is a different form of matter ... the most common translations call this a "glorified body" ... I think the image on the shroud may have been made as a result of this transformation.
You do not come back in the same body. The body is a vessel for the soul only--sort of like a puppet or remote controlled machine.
When the desciples did not recognize Jesus he was not in the same body but somethng different--he is the same spirt and soul.
Lazarus was raised from the dead too...
Being raised form the dead as one of the miracles of Jesus is hardly reincarnation.
Having actually participated in a resurrection, and knowing five people who have been raised, I can say in my experience, that yes, it's the same body, but it's not exactly the same body. It is a transformation. The people I know, it's a partial transformation. Some of this does include spontaneous regeneration.
are you a doctor? or Jesus? I seen a fly come back to life, does that count.
No, I'm not a Doctor or Jesus ... But I do believe Jesus when He says, You will do "Greater Things than I": I wrote about the experience in:
http://hubpages.com/hub/You-Will-Do-Gre … ngs-Than-I
Reincarnation is an established belief of some religions. It is absolutely not a belief of Christianity. Reincarnation usually is associated with karma, as Lady G. initially pointed out. It essentially works out that if you are good, you will be reincarnated as someone better. if you screw up, you will come back as a donkey, that kind of stuff. It is sure not biblical.
No it doesn't!! You need to get updated on on facts. The unknown is taught as fear and some religions keep you from knowling and learning and gaining knowledge. Take at look at why they burn the library of Alexandria and why are you told that anything other then what they teachyou is blasphemy and that you will go to hell if you even look to other books to gain knowledge.................Are they trying to protect you and from what becasue Jesus said Not to Fear Him...
LG - Please pardon me for actually quoting scripture on this hub, but I do so, to ask an opinion.
VP- Matthew 11:13-14: 13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. 14 And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who is to come.
Now, we know two things Jesus said here:
1) This would be a hard teaching
2) He didn't say "like" Elijah. He said "is" Elijah.
This is NKJV, I can get the greek if you'd prefer.
I would like your interpretation of this scripture. And for you to explain how taking it literally would be blaspheme. If you have one and if you don't mind.
I don't mind. Heck he posted scripture and so did Sir Dent--what the heck!!
Are you saying that you think recincarnation is biblical?
Wow, I don't know what happened with that post... I am having weird things happen on my computer tonight. Oh well... I just meant to ask if you think reincarnation is biblical, BDazzler.
I asked you first! .
Do you have an interpretation of this scripture?
Pay attention to the signs the cosmos is trying to tell you something
I fully agree with that; however, I have not seen where you can help me. I think you are here to lead people down the wide path. I don't like that. What about you?
Anyway, Jesus is God. He is certainly no reincarnation of Elijah. Elijah did go to heaven, he had many miracles done through him and he was carried off to heaven (paraphrasing, not trying to be exact here), but he is not God. Maybe I am missing your point, sorry...
I have the Greek translation, thanks. Your version does not have it as "the Elijah". The NIV does. Also, other versions use the word "which" not "who". If you want to believe in reincarnation, go ahead. I think religious scholars all agree that this is not intended by Jesus to say that He or John the Baptist (if that was your point) was reincarnation.
Is that your point? I am sorry, but I am not sure what you are getting at...
I am still fishing, but clearly John the Baptist was not the "reincarnation" (yecch) of Elijah. John says that in John 1:21;
"So they asked him, “Then who are you? Are you Elijah?” He said, “I am not!”
Also, if you read Malachi 4, you will see the terms of Elijah's coming. They were not done by John the Baptist. Does that help?
So ... how does this jibe with what Jesus said?
As I said, this is Jesus using an allegory to the coming of the Messiah. He was not talking about reincarnation (yeccch).
Thew actual Greek of the KJV is "And if ye wil receive it, this is Elijah WHICH was for to come. That word "ho" is pivotal to this sentence as it can be neutral or feminine. Thus, every religious scholar I know does not think of this in any way as reincarnation. Rather, I have learned that this passage actually is about Jesus as the Messiah prophesied in the OT.
I said something similar once to the Pastor at the church I used to go to. I said, "if Jesus didn't say it, then I wouldn't believe it.
-VP, do you get what the point is yet?
I got the point right away. I just wasn't sure what twist was being put on actual scripture, so I kept my options open. The topic of the conversation was that reincarnation, proposed by Lady G as biblical, is in fact blasphemy. BDazzler came against me, not Lady G, so it was clear that reincarnation is at best a gray area to BDazzler. That person does not like me, but I do not know what I did to that person (I cannot figure whether it is a man or woman yet).
I simply could not figure out which erroneous reincarnation attempt was being made, John the Baptist or Jesus. It did not matter. The Bible directly refutes both. Really I was trying to be nice by just postponing the event of solving the issue. Then, several unkind comments were made to me, so I put it behind me by showing that either hypothesis is biblically incorrect.
So, in fact, it is blasphemy in Christianity to believe and write in support of reincarnation. It is a tenet of some eastern religions and minor religions, hardly Christianity.
By the way, I keep smiling about you getting the donkey line. You are very quick (not just about that one). As you said to me recently, I have grown to have much more respect for you now that I see more clearly where you are coming from. I really do laugh at most of these posts, but your posts are intentionally funny. Those are the best kind. Keep up the good work and God bless you.
I am sorry you feel like I came against you. My intent was to clarify and focus not to attack. And no, it's not a gray area ... my goal is to have people seek answers for themselves by the word of God and the interpretation of the Holy Spirit, not to give them "pat answers". People will embrace truth they've found themselves much more strongly than if I give it to them.
Just to be absolutely clear, I have seen aboslutely no biblical support for the concept that people die come back as animals. And what support I have seen tired, has not borne witness with my spirit. But I wanted to see where you were biblically, and I meant it respectfully.
Again, I appllogize if my finger got in your eye. I like you just fine and I am truly sorry I made you feel attacked.
This proves to us that you are sexually biased in your religion and teachings. Does it matter what Bdazzler is? Come on really!!! You are looking for a fight by what you say as to what kind of slant they were going to use or are using. You are LOOKIng for a fight and that is all. When you go looking for something you will find it.........Pride goeth before a fall. and You keep teling everyone you are trying to be kind.with a friends like you who needs enemies!
You are just going downhill fast. I was using pronouns to speed up the sentence, something common in the English language. I did not know what pronoun to use, so I disclaimed my inability to use pronouns accurately.
You punch someone and say they are asking for a fight. Settle down, you are losing it...
Exactly VP. I was going to mention Malachi 4 for this part of the discussion too. Romans, chapters 9, 10 and 11 speaks about Elijah (Elias) coming in the end days as well. And Luke 1:17 says this regarding John the Baptist.
In Matthew 11:13-14 Jesus is saying that John the Baptist is Elijah (Elias) not in person, but in spirit. So there is no reincarnation here. Some may think that there are different interpretations of the Bible but there is just one correct interpretation. The Bible proves itself with the Bible itself, as we see above.
Sandra I was just showing the misconception about the meaning of anathema that web site was proclaiming. It was proclaiming a lie.
Even the Sikh Gurus the lineage would pass on to the one who has become like the prophet or has the spirit awakened in him.
Do you men that John The Baptist can be two spirits in ne--Elija and John? For judging and that--wasn't it Jesus who judges, not John or Elija? How can one person have two spirits in them? Wouldn't hat e demons that that do those things and not another sirit--accorning to the Bible it is anyway.
Purgatory was put in much later as it was a thought process of Playto.
Do you not think you have the Holy Spirit in you? Could say the same.
No purgatory has been a Catholic believe for 2,000 years. It is actually from the Old Testament, 2 Maccabees 12:43-46.
Yes and no To undeerstand the cannonization of the New Testament it was the Monks who did the original translating of the Bible.
You can read about the canonization of the Bile on these sites
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/augustine/ar … /nicea.htm
http://www.mnstate.edu/gracyk/courses/w … oPlato.htm
I understand that this is alot to read, but it is worth it if you are doing as Jesus asks of you--to ask and seek and understand and test the scriptures and the spirit.
Again, Mike I am asking questions for the purpose of having them out on the table. I have not stated a position, my goal is to have a civil discussion. I was honestly asking for a sincere interpretation. And though the bible does indeed have one intepretation, it is in the seeking of that intepretation that truth is found. Thus the Bereans were more rightous. My goal is not to interpret or to give anybody interpretation, but to encourage all to be like the Bereans.
I assure you that if I disagree with something Lady G is sayin and I have a point to make with her and wish to help her see the truth, as I have discovered it, I will not be successful if I attack her personally, call her a blasphemer and stomp on everything she's found for herself. I have no authority to correct anybody until I have washed their stinky feet. It is not the hearers of the word, but the doers that the Father considers righteous.
I'm not asking questions to make a point. I'm asking questions to encourage civil discussion and honest seeking.
Yeah I figured that's what you might be doing after reading some of your other posts. You can quote scriptures too though. We won't think you are a bad guy for doing it.
LOL ... I know Lady G has some unorthodox views, but I used to think speaking in tounges was a misinterpretation of scripture, until it happened to me. Then when I discovered I could not only interpret, but translate them .... very bizzar for a mundane baptist boy.
So, I still listen respectfully, and search the scriptures like the Bereans no matter how unusual the claims may be.
OK, I'm sorry I thought you were more familiar with the story... Please understand I've been a bible scholar for well over 20 years. I sometimes expect people as passionate as you seem to be to be a little more familiar with the actual content. Especially since you suggested that I go back and check the passage, so, I did, because in spite of my years of study, I'm often wrong in my recollection. Again, please forgive my presumption and thank you for your suggestion that I go back and look.
Jesus is God... we're clear with that, that is not in question.
Here's more of the scripture.
Jesus who IS God and therefore cannot lie says, speaking of John the Baptist ... "he is Elijah"
So, how can this be? How can John the Baptist, born of Elizabeth less than a year before Jesus actually be Elijah who lived hundreds of years before and was taken up into heaven?
20 years a biblical scholar? That's great. Did you answer if you believe in reincarnation. That is the question here, right?
You are missing the point of the scripture, as I see it. I proved that with my recent posts from Malachi and John, right? Maybe I am still missing what you say, though, I will give you that.
However, if John the Baptist said he was not Elijah, and Jesus is God not Elijah, what are you getting at? If the conditions from Malachi were not met by John the Baptist, how could he be Elijah? Certainly, my initial post that brought you into the discussion was about reincarnation. I assume you were trying to show me some reincarnation in the Bible, right?
Speaking of being rough, you may want to reread your post to me about my knowledge of this. Don't give it a second thought, I will not take offense. I just want to point out that the reader often feels a little different than the writer, particularly before knowing all the issue at hand. No problem, though, OK?
Well, how can you conclude that this is reincarnation when it is proven not to be.
Oh that's cool that you can translate tongues. My 91 year old aunt has told me that she has spoken in tongues. I'll have to ask her more about it. According to 1 Corinthians 14 I understand it's not suppose to be done in church with believers but for the purpose of bringing non-believers to Christ. I think?
The way I read it is that the gift of tongues is a gift to the receiver, who receives the most edification for the privilege, a revelation to the body when it is interpreted, and a sign to unbelievers. The purpose of a sign is to point to something greater. It appears to be deliberately intended to pique curiosity. I believe this is similar to why Jesus spoke in parables. Some people heard the stories and said, "That guys a nut". Other people said, "Hey what did that mean?" Those that choose to pursue truth have the opportunity for greater revelation. (And so as not to hijack LG's thread, I think this is what is relevant to this topic, encouragement to pursue the mystery. (ie 1 Cor 14:2) )
The unbeliever, though, is not to be overwhelmed by signs, as is explained in verses 23+ any sign is to point to God, not to impress people with the spirituality of the one who has the gift. Tongues can be abused, so the primary point of chapters 12-14 Paul was reminding people to use all gifts, particularly tongues, lovingly.
I discovered I had been on the opposite side of the argument ... since the gift had/could be abused it must therefore not be from God. God corrected me. (Quite gently I might add, I was mistaken, not rebellious.)
I have thought about your actions for the last day or so and have taken time to form my thoughts properly.
This will be the last time that I say this so I do hope that you pay attention to it and heed what I say.
Your actions have gotten other hubbers attention and they are not the best thoughts of you out there.
I let you have your say and have continued to allow your posts to be added to this conversation. Now I am telling you to stop the cointinued disrespect of other hubbers here, the name calling and your threats. Those are unbecoming of you and do not present yourself in the most mature light.
If you continue to call people names in this forum or any forum or hub that I start, I will have a few choices to take and so will others here. One choice would be to ignore you. Another would be to delete your posts. The final choice would be to report you to management for your trollish behavior.
Now I like sharing knowledge and learning from each other and their various experiences and viewpoints but I will not tolerate your abusive behavior in my forum.
That is an empty post with no facts and situations to decribe your complaint against me. Hint, get some proof of your statement. HP will not act on some empty post.
"Trollish behavior" = empty words, "abusive behavior" = empty post, "not the best thoughts of you out there" = empty post, "continued abusive behavior of other hubbers" = empty post, "the name calling and the threats" = empty post, "Those are unbecoming of you and do not present yourself in the most mature light" = empty post... Well, not exactly, huh? Actually those are very thinly veiled insults.
You see, you insult me five times in your post, then say I insult others. Are you so naive to think that I do not see exactly what you are doing? Do you really think HP can't read?
I will not stop fighting against lies and blasphemy. I am not one bit swayed by your saying what you say. HP knows full well that I am provoked by your behavior (five insults in one post is a bit much, don't you think?). I have been reported countless times, and I have never been reprimanded. They can read. I just represent the truth of the Bible. You lie about it, i.e. reincarnation... I will not just let that slide. Do as you will. I am not one bit scared of you or your pals.
I have never called anyone a name that I cannot provide truth and facts for why I say it. I have never mistranslated the Bible here to my knowledge, not that it has not inadvertently happened. It is just that no one has yet presented me any truth to show that. Can you? If you disrespect me so much, surely you can find just one place where I misrepresented the Holy Word of God, right? Surely you have one instance, right?
While you are at it, surely you have one instance where I insulted someone without reasn, right? Surely I must be starting it sometimes, right? Surely you can show one time where I just came out and said something insulting with no provocation, right?
I have presented you countless times that you have mistranslated the Bible, to be kind.
You cannot censor my comments on a forum. So, go ahead and try. That is an empty threat. Please delete this post, OK? Oops, try reading the rules first...
Just quit lying about the Bible, and I will stop saying you do. Quit attacking me for what I say, and I will quit defending myself. Gee, this is a good example of that, isn't it? You commit to stopping me, so I say I have no fear of you and I will continue. You have called me so many names that you would have no defense with HP, by the way, so I would clean up your act if you want to accuse me of it. They take the 1st amendment pretty seriously I imagine or they would not be here. The FCC watches this stuff pretty closely. HP does not want a discrimination complaint for uneven administration of rules of open communication.
I did not prokoke this discussion, did I? No, you did. Can't you see how puny that is? Get a life...
LG- I certainly could learn more from that and understand other beliefs better. Thanks for those links
You are very welcome. There is alot to learn of the world and cultures and people. God put all those tries on earth and a few of the people in each think they know everything and will just believe blindly without ever doing as the Bible says--to seek and find and ask and test everything. Too bad they only see 1/10th of the whole world becasue it is a wonderful place with lots of wonderful people.
I seem to have missed your post about hijacking my forum post. Go right ahead--it happens all the time so this should be no different. What I like about you is that you do the same or have the same desire as I do--just opening up for questions and to get a good discussion going. I may do it in an "unothodox" way, but I still will do it. I have noticed that there are some people who will fight one if you ask questions and display an attitude that behoves themselves. I will not cater to these types of peopke. That doesn't mean that I don't love them as Jesus says, but that I have a choice as to weather I need their child's play to affect me or not. There are better things about Jesus then the fear stuff that some people exhibit here.
Definition of Gnostic:
"A Gnostic gospel is an early form of spirituality that focuses on gnosis, the Greek word for “knowledge.” Gnostics believe in a mystical knowledge, a knowledge of God that allows them to be one with him and to directly communicate with him without an intermediary. Such beliefs were in direct conflict with members of the emerging orthodox Church" http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/g … ifier.html
And when the ancients talked about 'knowledge" it was experience. Like sages who had first hand knowledge. It does not refer to that which is read in books. Books were a guide to the Knowledge - gnosis, knowing.
Joh 10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
Joh 10:8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
Jesus said it Himself.
Are you enlightened ?have you come across the Holy spirit?
God was mentioned in the Vedas thousands of years before Jesus came on this planet.Jesus is the not the first person to talk about the Light-God and neither was he the last.Stop fooling yourselves .
well, I have taken the time to read everyones responses and such and this is what I have come too.......
A certain person still says he is right and not one other is right--even after he KNOWS about the Buble only containing 1/10th of the informatin thta is in the world. He also claims that He will not learn anyting of another religioun or belifs and that is sad especially when all he can and wants to do is put others down and call everythig else a liar.
There have been some that are tying to point him in the right direction..........but..........that isn't going to happen in his present midset.........so lets all move on shall we...............
I have posted many links and I admit these are long links and some don't want to go to them to learn--even if it is about themsleves. That is fine with me, they are out there when you are ready.
Jesus planted seeds and for them to grow we need to takecare of them. I am also planting seeds for growth. I don't know if you realize it or not but on those link that I posted, I tried to be as unbiased as possible and posted ones that are from different p-erspectives. You can come to the concusion that you will. The door is always open with Jesus and God..
Jewel, I am not forgetting you or your question....just thinking on it lots. I am eveloving spiritualy and something that is way to fast for me and sometimes it is so clow that I notice notheing.my mind is like a sponge in that I can take lots in and then it will stop absorbing so that it can process what has been taken in----often times with that is that I can't seem to get it to wring out.....
BDazzler, I have had many experiences too tht some call me crazy and that I have also thought the same........so I can relate wth you on that.
One thing----what if we all are right????
I beliieve that we are and everything happens for a reason and all of us are at the places and thoughts tht we are supposed to be in right now.
This is slightly off-topic. I feel it needs to be pointed out though.
What Is A Troll?
The term derives from "trolling", a style of fishing which involves trailing bait through a likely spot hoping for a bite. The troll posts a message, often in response to an honest question, that is intended to upset, disrupt or simply insult the group.
Usually, it will fail, as the troll rarely bothers to match the tone or style of the group, and usually its ignorance shows.
Why do trolls do it?
I believe that most trolls are sad people, living their lonely lives vicariously through those they see as strong and successful.
Disrupting a stable newsgroup gives the illusion of power, just as for a few, stalking a strong person allows them to think they are strong, too.
For trolls, any response is 'recognition'; they are unable to distinguish between irritation and admiration; their ego grows directly in proportion to the response, regardless of the form or content of that response.
Trolls, rather surprisingly, dispute this, claiming that it's a game or joke; this merely confirms the diagnosis; how sad do you have to be to find such mind-numbingly trivial timewasting to be funny?
Remember that trolls are cowards; they'll usually post just enough to get an argument going, then sit back and count the responses (Yes, that's what they do!).
Troll - Angler or Underbridge Dweller?
How can troll posts be recognised?
No Imagination - Most are frighteningly obvious; sexist comments on nurses' groups, blasphemy on religious groups .. I kid you not.
Pedantic in the Extreme - Many trolls' preparation is so thorough, that while they waste time, they appear so ludicrous from the start that they elicit sympathetic mail - the danger is that once the group takes sides, the damage is done.
False Identity - Because they are cowards, trolls virtually never write over their own name, and often reveal their trolliness (and lack of imagination) in the chosen ID. As so many folk these days use false ID, this is not a strong indicator on its own!
Crossposting - Any post that is crossposted to several groups should be viewed as suspicious, particularly if unrelated or of opposing perspective. Why would someone do that?
Off-topic posting - Often genuine errors, but, if from an 'outsider' they deserve matter-of-fact response; if genuine, a brief apposite response is simply netiquette; if it's a troll post, you have denied it its reward.
Repetition of a question or statement is either a troll - or a pedant; either way, treatment as a troll is effective.
Missing The Point - Trolls rarely answer a direct question - they cannot, if asked to justify their twaddle - so they develop a fine line in missing the point.
Thick or Sad - Trolls are usually sad, lonely folk, with few social skills; they rarely make what most people would consider intelligent conversation. However, they frequently have an obsession with their IQ and feel the need to tell everyone. This is so frequent, that it is diagnostic! Somewhere on the web there must be an Intelligence Test for Trolls - rigged to always say "above 150"
I believe all that is needed to hear the voice of God, is the willingness to listen for it. Throught the Bible, God spoke often...To Rightous, such as Moses and Abraaham and Job.. As well as to the wicked Pilate and Saul(before conversion).. If God has something to say, He will say it. As always Daz, I appreciate your thought provoking posts! M
Thank you for coming by Mike. I do believe that too. Mentiond on another post in this forum someplace--I mentioned that same thing about if he wants to be heard he will be and Satan has no power over that.
A very interesting observation LG ... The man possessed by "Legion" approached Jesus and fell down and worshiped him. Very interesting, 2000+ demons couldn't keep the guy from coming to Jesus if he wanted to.
Mike, thanks, you couldn't have paid me a higher complement!
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