The Flat Earthers Speak on Climate Change

1. 76

   Mighty Momposted 13 years ago

   Amusing or horrifying -- or both?
   
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdFrpXMQ … embedded#!

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   1. 62

      Mishaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      You must be really bored MM

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   2. 0

      Brenda Durhamposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Horrifying that conservationists would make a nasty video like that, yes indeed.
      But not surprising.  Many people love the creation more than the Creator.  This we were forewarned about in the Bible.  Perhaps you weren't paying attention.

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2. 78

   frogdroppingposted 13 years ago

   Lovely. Who to believe. A bit like religion. And my dad. I'm never quite sure whether he's telling me something for my own good or simply because he's amusing himself
   
   
   I'm going to get a nice slice of fruit bed and have a coffee

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3. 76

   Mighty Momposted 13 years ago

   I look at it this way -- there's no reason not to move toward cleaner technologies, which already exist. Could it hurt?
   
   BTW, congrats on the 100 score!! Woo hoo!!!

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   1. 73

      Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      "Could it hurt?"
      
      Well, if you're a petroleum company, yeah, it could hurt your profit margin as people start using renewable energy sources and demand for your product goes down.
      
      Is the planet getting warmer?
      Yes.
      Is it all our fault?
      Probably not.
      Is it partly our fault?
      Probably.
      Will our activities tip the balance one way or the other?
      Maybe; we don't really know enough to say yet.
      That's all we can say with great confidence, and it's not all that definite, is it?
      
      Here are the questions we really ought to be asking:
      
      If we are affecting the climate in a big enough way to change it for the worse, what is the cost of doing nothing?
      
      If we aren't affecting the climate in a big enough way to change it for the worse, what is the cost of doing something, and will doing something have an overall beneficial effect, an overall deleterious effect, or no real effect at all?
      
      Once we have decent answers to those questions, we can start to make policy.

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      1. 59

         Doug Hughesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Nice clear thinking - well expressed.  I think most of your cheklist has been answered. The conclusions depend on the authorities you select.
         
         My opinion  - based on authorities I respect, is that doing nothing may be a diaster - doing something can't hurt (renewable, non-polluting energy sources, jobs) and it might help a lot.

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4. 78

   frogdroppingposted 13 years ago

   No, there shouldn't be a barrier MM - the possible reason could well be the lack of profit? Who knows. Money and power are the motivators as a rule ... philanthropy is rarely the true stimlulus for such changes. Unfortunately
   
   And thankyou. I must have pushed the right buttons somewhere. I'm not so active here these days. Or someone likes me. Or ...or ... lol

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5. 61

   Evan G Rogersposted 13 years ago

   i know i'll be branded as a heretic for saying this,
   
   but the evidence for climate change is not as overwhelmingly one-sided as many were led to believe by al gore.
   
   My father is a climatologist at a very respectable school, and - while he is convinced that the climate is changing - he is still surprised to see that it is happening at a much slower rate than would be expected, and that it isn't quite as harmful as people are being led to believe.
   
   Yes, temperatures are rising, but very surprisingly slowly. Also, there are easy ways to fix the problem if it really becomes an issue. THe book "Superfreakonomics" briefly discusses 1 or 2 possible solutions that would cost less than a trillion dollars -- I'll be the first to admit that the methods discussed might not be the super safest way to do them, but they are a very cheap solution to this huge problem, and could be started with today's technology.
   
   Now about the political parts of it - it's kind of nonsense to blame this whole hoopla on Palin and others. After all, it was Gore who really made the overgeneralizations. His entire movie was almost completely nonsense. watch it again closely and notice how he never actually says that what you're watching has been shown to be directly connected to climate change.
   
   And also, weren't we supposed to be entering an ice age?
   
   So anyway, I'm just pointing out that 1) climate change discussions have been around for a century +, but the previous arguments were that we'd be frozen, 2) Al Gore, a democrat, started the whole nonsense (for the most part), and he politicized it to an extent, 3) climate change has some surprisingly easy solutions, and 4) that most of what the public thinks is from climate change is NOT because of man-made climate change.

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   1. 79

      Aficionadaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you for this!  I would like to give you a hug, but I wouldn't want you to misunderstand my motives.  lol
      
      It is so refreshing to hear a voice of reason from time to time.

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      1. 61

         Evan G Rogersposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         once again, i'm not DENYING climate change, i'm simply saying that it might not be that big of a deal, and that it doesn't seem to be as huge a deal as everyone thought it was going to be. These statements reflect the data that I've seen and the information that I've heard.
         
         I DO fully understand that increased CO2 and Methane CAN increase temperatures. It just doesn't seem to be hitting as hard as was expected.

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         1. 65

            Ralph Deedsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            From what I've read it's hitting harder than expected, and we will reach the tipping point of no return sooner than anticipated.

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         2. 79

            Aficionadaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Actually, this is precisely what I wanted to affirm.
            
            I worry about the way we Americans tend to jump so readily on whatever the newest bandwagon is, without thorough investigation.  We take sides and loudly formulate popular opinions and theories, while the scientists go about their business gathering real data and delving into the numerous possible causes for various phenomena, generally being ignored.
            
            
            Cute, Ralph, and fun to read sarcasm, but totally inaccurate.  By voice of reason, in this thread I mean "someone who has direct ties to the topic under discussion and who can provide an alternate perspective without either hostility or defensiveness."

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      2. 65

         Ralph Deedsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         By voice of reason you mean "someone who agrees with me.":-)

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6. 60

   JayDeckposted 13 years ago

   from a purely practical perspective, the world seems to be operating on the theory that climate change is a pressing problem. There are markets for green technologies all across the globe. In the U.S. we were at the forefront of development, but have lost or market position to the likes of the Chinese. Whether or not the current concern is warranted, there is money to be had. What happened to the campaign promise that we would focus on developing a new green manufacturing sector in the U.S.?
   The world's fasted growing economy has realized its potential, why haven't we?

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   1. 78

      Abecedarianposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Come on JayDeck, it's been less than 2 years, it can't happen over night. Things have to be put in place. I can say that in Texas, we have solar fields that will be powering homes, in West Texas, windmills for energy are going up daily. It's amazing. In the building industry, we have "green home" packages. My phone through sprint, is a "green phone", made of recycled materials. In the city, they are recycling more than ever. Those who ask for less government are quick to point out what the government hasn't done. Quite funny actually. We as individuals are just as responsible for taking that next step. It costs less than the cost of a car to purchase a windmill to run your home, if you have a backyard to put it in. Solar panels can run everything from your powergate to your home. There are programs to help offset the cost. Let's quit blaming the government for everything and start taking responsiblity for our own actions or inaction.

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         JayDeckposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         It has been less than 2 years and, yet, in that time China has become the global leader in solar panel manufacturing and will soon corner most other green tech markets. The promise was to create a green industry in the U.S. and make us the go to country for green technology. So far, regardless of what the private sector has done, there have been no meaningful federal initiatives in that area. This idea, of reinventing a large part of our manufacturing base, was part of the reason i voted for Obama and, regardless of how I feel about his presidency otherwise, this is an area where they are lacking. Absolutely, we as Americans need to be engaging with green technology on our own, but if the solar panel and the phone and the cars and the windmills are all built in other parts of the world, we haven't done anything to change our consumerist ways.

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         1. 78

            Abecedarianposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            True, on most parts, but one thing we forget, China is communist, their people work around the clock for little or nothing. We have rights here and people want to work as long as it doesn't interfere with their "personal time".  We are a spoiled society that is showing it's true colors right now. People are angry because they are having to do without the luxuries. We've forgotten the struggles of our parents and the hard work. I hear young kids everyday complain about working on weekends, it cuts into the party time, the video game time, etc. They don't want to work in the morning, too early, maybe go in at 10:00, but they don't want to work too late either.  THESE ARE THE ONES THAT WILL REPRESENT OUR FUTURE.  It's scarey. How many people do you know who still have grown kids at home because they don't want move out, just yet?

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7. 78

   Abecedarianposted 13 years ago

   I believe that the earth is doing it's own thing, like it did before the ice age and it will once again repair itself, how it will affect human life, no one knows, do humans have an affect on how quickly it's happening. I believe so. We have created so much that affects the atmosphere and of course it has to change the effects of what happens to our earth.

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8. 63

   I am DB Cooperposted 13 years ago

   Global warming is only a theory, just as the concept of a round Earth is also a theory.

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9. 79

   mega1posted 13 years ago

   Whether or not the climate is changing - there are more than enough reasons to think green - and act globally green.  I'm sick of the debate.  Let's just be responsible humans, stop over-populating, stop destroying the planet with our wars and pollution and trash. Start building green homes, start planning, really planning for not just the future, but a WONDERFUL future for the next generations. We will be happier, the planet will be happier and so everything wins.  We don't need to believe our planet is going to die in order to conserve it, do we?  Using the climate issue as a reason to behave properly or not is just crazy.  The sensational politicizing of this scientific issue is unfortunately typical of our species' actions so far.  I hope we wise up! fast.

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10. 76

    Mighty Momposted 13 years ago

    I guess I wasn't paying attention.
    But hey, if the world is going to end in 2012 I suppose none of this climate change and response thereto matters anyway, right?
    
    BTW, I came upon this video quite by accident and thought it was funny -- I guess unless something is posted with 25 smilie faces and ROFLs after it the humor is lost.

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    1. 79

       mega1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

       It would be funny if it weren't so true! these politicos actually hate the scientific community, no matter what they say about anything at all - its "unAmerican" according to them to listen to any scientists on any issue.  Ignorance and fear are the main political tools - play on people's ignorance and fear and then after you're elected ignore any kind of reality and line your pockets!  My funny bone is broken now.

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11. 76

    Mighty Momposted 13 years ago

    In the meantime, there is massive evidence beyond environmental (read: economic) that the United States could and should become more energy independent. It is high time to reduce (substantially) our dependence on fossil fuels.
    If the big oil companies don't like it, let them pony up in the alternative fuels arena, as their (gag me) commercials on TV say they are doing.
    Climate change aside, can the US afford another disaster like we just had in the Gulf Coast?
    No one can deny that the US needs jobs. Is the oil industry creating any? Every economic indicator I read (especially for my region, which is naturally of primary interest to moi) points to GREEN TECHNOLOGY as a source of employment.
    
    Hard to refute on any possible level, except for possibly two:
    1. There is no specific mention of "Green technology" or "climate change" in the Bible
    2. There is no specific mention of "green technology" or "climate change" in the Constitution

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    1. 79

       mega1posted 13 years agoin reply to this

       haha!  the Bible and the Constitution have to be the conclusive deciding factors in all major policy decisions - so - well, I guess we're SUPPOSED to go to hell in a handbasket and destroy and plunder and deplete.  Hooray!  we're on the RIGHT track!  let them leftist liberal pinko commies talk all they want, we're not gonna lissen, right?  you betcha!

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