Is killing someone worse than forcing them to live a miserable life?

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74
Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years ago
If you had the choice between living your entire life as a helpless slave to a cruel master or death which would you choose?

You are the master, the slave is absolutely powerless to do anything against you in any way including suicide.

Would it be more cruel to kill them or to force them to live?
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1. 73
  Reality Bytesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I would die fighting off my oppresser!
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2. 73
  Reality Bytesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What good would a helpless slave be? The master would probably kill the slave versus feeding clothing and providing shelter for them.
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  Mighty Momposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Obviously you have never been a slaver owner, RB!
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  73
  Reality Bytesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I am a slave, we all are. We belong to the United States Government. Each of us is property used as collateral for the debt that our bloated Government has incurred.
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  couturepopcafeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You can always move to another country, buy an island of your own, or steal a shopping cart.
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  Reality Bytesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The United States is my country. The UNITED STATES Government does not own the country it belongs to the people. It was a treasonous Congress that put us at the level of chattel.
  
  I can do whatever I want including expressing my opinion!
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  74
  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  , President,Governers,Mayors, City Council-persons and greedy business people in secret meetings making secret deals
  
  If you can do whatever you want then get the Government to enforce the laws the millions of Criminal Invaders are breaking.
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3. 61
  TJenkins602posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Death!
  
  DEATH!
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  Baileybearposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  maybe it would be better to kill ignorant bigots? - those that conduct hate crimes on gays and people with brown or black skin in the name of an invisible deity.
  
  After all, ignorant bigots are slaves to their own delusions
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  74
  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  ????????
  
  Criminals should be punished under the law. Be they "criminal" Immigrants or "Criminal" bigots.
  
  Criminals are Criminals, and they should be punished under the LAW as the "LAW" provides.
  
  We can't be a Nation of Law abiding Citizens that get to choose when the LAW isn't the Law just because we sympathize with the criminals in a particular instance...
  
  Can We?
  
  Is the "LAW" subjective to personal feelings about the plight of the Criminal's miserable life???
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  Baileybearposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I would say death is an easy option for a criminal.
  
  Don't forget LAW is made by people - was was acceptable law centuries ago might be considered barbaric now
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  74
  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Then should we expect Criminal Immigrants to take that easy way out and kill themselves?
  
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  Baileybearposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  people can't help where they were born.
  
  You are using the word 'criminal' to paint people that are trying to survive best they can as dangerous. Yet the Europeans stealing the land you live on from the native indians is not considered criminal because there was no "LAW" against it.
  
  Anyway, your rigid view seems really hypocritical and narrow-minded. Maybe you should be thankful you were born somewhere where you automatically get to be 'American', with all that entails, since many Americans seem to think they're better than everyone else.
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  74
  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So since I was born poor I should go rob some rich person because "I can't help being born poor"??? Yea that's sound logic.
  
  From my ancestors (Cherokee Indians)
  
  and so I should just roll over and allow these "poor immigrants" that have had such a miserable life steal my homeland? Because I was born in a rich and prosperous country? That's your logic?
  
  Lose your jealousy of the United States and stop classifying criminal behavior as ok so long as the crime is committed against people you believe deserve to suffer.
  
  You sound exactly like Hitler. Kill 'em all they killed Jesus! (you're not him in disguise are you?)
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  Baileybearposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  you have a very twisted way of thinking
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
  Thanks for playing.
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  Baileybearposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  and no I'm not Jesus or Hitler
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Emile Rposted 12 years ago
Yes. I have to second reality byte's sentiment. I don't know that I could resolve myself to such a fate to the point of choosing death.
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74
Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years ago
Nice... but not an option.

You are the master, the slave is absolutely powerless to do anything against you in any way including suicide.

Would it be more cruel to kill them or to force them to live.
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1. 73
  Reality Bytesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Resistance and refusal of consent is always an option.
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2. 69
  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  In the instance your providing, then letting them live would be worse than killing them.
  
  However, I see something bigger coming with your instance.
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  61
  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'd chose to die fighting them.
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Rubbish, even in the depths of despair, there is a way to fight.
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  74
  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  for the sake of this discussion, assume there is no option c.
  
  the only possibilities absolutely are option A or B.
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  61
  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If the possibilities were only option A or B, which they never really are in real life. I would chose to kill myself, allowing the supposed slave to walk free and P*** off all those who chose to oppress.
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  74
  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Your death is the slaves death as well. Your choice here is another try at an option c, which does not exist.
  
  ...or better yet... your suicide makes you the slave and forces someone else to make the original choice.
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  61
  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And, your questions here are completely unrealistic (although I do acknowledge that this is a completely hypothetical situation) If option C does not exist than there is only A or B. Or death combined.
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  74
  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Which doesn't answer the question... (death combined would be an option c, which does not exist).
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I gave you another option but you have refused to recognize that as A or B is an answer and I have just decided that your original post makes no sense.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  another option does not exist...option c cannot exist. The choices are absolutely A or B.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Or maybe you're just being difficult?
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I am not being difficult. This is not in my vocabulary Today is my birthday (plug plug) therefore, I can get away with being..... Obnoxious.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well Happy Birthday Hollie!
  
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you Cagsil, nice, pretty and very welcomed touch.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You're welcome.
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wildernessposted 12 years ago
"Give me liberty or give..."
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77
Mighty Momposted 12 years ago
So if I am understanding the available options in this scenario:
I am in charge of whether this slave lives or dies.

If I had a slave I probably wouldn't care much about his/her quality of life. I would care only what that slave could do for ME.
Killing them might actually be the more merciful option. But I probably wouldn't see it that way. I probably wouldn't even consider their life as "miserable" because I would lack empathy.
There's also the issue of punishment. Am I subject to legal prosecution if I kill this person? I which case that option would definitely be worse -- for ME
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1. 74
  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  OK, in this example you do know and understand the consequences and the full meaning of everything involved. You are legally empowered and required to make this decision. You know and can empathize with the slaves misery so "option c" being unaware of the slave's suffering therefore not accountable for "the misery" is again not an option.
  
  Death or miserable life... that's it. no qualifiers no exceptions, no easing of guilt. a LIFE hangs in the balance of your decision.
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  77
  Mighty Momposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Are you trying to sway my decision by capitalizing and BOLDING the word LIFE??
  
  I would ask the miserable person what he would want me to do and act according to their wishes. If they valued their life, as miserable as it might be, then I would keep them alive. If they begged me to please put them out of their misery, I would do that.
  
  See, when I get empathetic I REALLY get empathetic!
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  74
  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yet another option C. They would respond "I want to have your beautiful life." (which isn't possible and you know that, which is why you are being forced to make this decision).
  
  Your option C in this case: Have them make the decision for you. Which they will not do.
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  77
  Mighty Momposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No, they would not have the option of saying they want my beautiful life.
  That is clearly NOT an option -- or at least not as I interpreted the situation.
  
  My point is, I would confer with the person as to which of two unhappy fates they would rather have. If they consent to live a miserable life, then there is no point in killing them, is there?
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  74
  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  and they, like you, would refuse to accept that there really was only an option A or an option B and would eternally search for the non-existent option C. Which would force you back to the reality of the choices A or B.
  
  Your option C choice this time: refusing to make a decision.
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  77
  Mighty Momposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well then I would most emphatically choose B because there is always a chance that circumstances can change, for either my slave or for me.
  Death is final (unless you believe in an afterlife, which is a related subject but likely going to be called out as yet another "C" diversion. ).
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  A miserable life it is.
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  Mighty Momposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah but what do I care?
  I have a beautiful life, along with the power to decide whether someone else lives or dies!!
  Whee.
  Let me revel in this imaginary moment.
  Ok.
  I'm done.
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  74
  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  <grinning> You're bad...lol
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  Mighty Momposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No! I'm really not bad.
  This whole thing was incredibly out of character for me.
  Although we are actually living a very similar situation in real life with an evil overlordess (hesitate to call her a "lady") exactly in this position of power over my mother-in-law.
  Hence I am very, very sensitive to the subject.
  I hate abuse of power. Hate it!
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Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years ago
Changing the subject to avoid choosing is an option C... which does not exist... <grinning> (Happy Birthday Hollie )
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you Mikel
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74
Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years ago
2 choose death and one choice for misery...

anyone else?
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74
Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years ago
A miserable life it is.

BUT there wasn't just one slave there were millions of them and they too have an A or B choice to make based on your choice.

A Accept thier fate of a miserable life.
B Fight you and try to kill you and/or take your "beautiful" life.

In thier case however there does exist an option C, they can do the hard work of repairing thier miserable existence. Which will be much harder than simply taking your place in the world (your beautiful life) and making you the slave.

Now which option do you suppose they chose?

They chose Illegal Immigration/Criminal Invasion and the theft of our lives.

The President must make a decision about the fate of our nation, and the fate of the Criminal Invaders we are plagued with. One very much like the decision I posed here. My choice is similar to yours, I'd deport them and make sure they knew if they came back across the border they would be put to death. Anything less and the United States as we know it will end.
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Rubbish.
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  74
  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Is it?
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, you chose to blame those who are less fortunate than yourself in an attempt to explain the problems of the US (that they are attempting to steal your beautiful life) You make absolutely no attempt to look beyond the superficial. They are not stealing your life, they are merely trying to live (Don't we all have that right?) Who is stealing your beautiful life? Who's foreclosing on your home loan, moving your job to China? Is it the poor immigrant? Absolutely not, but who would have you believe that?
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  74
  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm homeless, jobless and living on a tiny little boat I'm about to get kicked off of and I don't see much hope for my future. My skills include landscaping, construction, handyman, maintenence, warehousing and factory laborer. The jobs for these skill sets have all been stolen by Illegal Aliens. I lost my home do to that joblessness. Lack of money has meant I haven't been able to see my kids for almost 3 years now. Don't go spouting off to me about the poor Criminal Invaders that have it soo bad. I didn't go to thier country illegally and put them out on the streets. I am not turning thier once beautiful country into a 3rd world country, but they are doing just that to mine. They are thieves, liars, and con-artists, bent on the destruction of all that I hold dear. THEY MUST GO!!!
  
  It is against the law for them to be here. Break the law, go to jail. If there is no law there is no United States.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You using this scenario and comparing to what the President has to do is quite different.
  
  His decision isn't based on an absolute, such as your instance is and as I said before, I knew this was coming.
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  Baileybearposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  you seem to have forgotten that 'white' Americans are immigrants too
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  74
  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Who said I wasn't including "white" Illegal Immigrants in the group of Illegal Immigrants?
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  Baileybearposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  This is what you say on your profile:
  "God also created the Racists however and I believe that is so we don't, as a species, become so mixed that we lose the diversity. God wants some pure whites, some pure blacks, some pure forms of each race. God also wants every possible combination of mixed races to exist. That is why God joins, in the bond of love, people from different races, and why some cannot stand the thought of mixing races. Racists are in every race, as God intended, they just need to lose the hate and accept that God knows what God is doing, even when what God is doing isn't what they want."
  
  hmmm.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  God created everyone..and He let is chose how we wanted to live-choices.
  
  In hindsight I bet he wished he'd made us all robots
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I doubt that.
  
  I believe God truly Loves Diversity, and all the little differences we have is what makes creation interesting.
  
  Could you imagine how boring creation would be, for God, if we were all the same?
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  Baileybearposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  so people of mixed ethnicity are all the same? What a crock.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I was jesting ,but you must agree God as Father must be fairly ticked off by now
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  BS.
  More BS.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Uhmm.. No Actually...
  
  This is what I posted on My Profile:
  
  God LOVES diversity.
  
  The more variations there are in creation the more God likes it. God also created the Racists however and I believe that is so we don't, as a species, become so mixed that we lose the diversity. God wants some pure whites, some pure blacks, some pure forms of each race. God also wants every possible combination of mixed races to exist. That is why God joins, in the bond of love, people from different races, and why some cannot stand the thought of mixing races. Racists are in every race, as God intended, they just need to lose the hate and accept that God knows what God is doing, even when what God is doing isn't what they want.
  
  In the end, it will be God's way... all POWERFUL... remember.
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  Baileybearposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  whatever..just as confusing. It sounds like you're racist but pretending not to be
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  ahhh...
  
  leaving out key parts of what I truly posted, to make me appear racist was an effort on your part to bring truth and honesty to the thread...I think I understand you. Especially since if I were a racist the truth of what I am saying could be dismissed without being examined too closely.
  
  Nice.
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  Baileybearposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  adding a few more sentences doesn't clarify anything here - you come across as a thinly disguised racist
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  and you come across as a not disguised at all racist.
  
  Racism is racism, even if it is racism against the white race.
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  Baileybearposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  there is not white 'race'. All living humans are the same 'race'/'species' regardless of skin colour.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  ahhh...
  
  Racism is Racism even if it is racism against the Caucasions/gringos/crackers...
  
  better?
  
  btw wikipedia lists several "races", one of them being this race you state doesn't exist because we are all "one" race.
  
  Have you spoken to your friends in "La Raza" (translated in english meaning "THE race")
  
  Not liking the truth doesn't make the truth false and the truth is modern minority races are more racist than the majority ever was.
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  Baileybearposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  biologically, there is only one living human 'race'. Humans are 99.9% biologically alike.
  
  Race as you use it is a social/political construct.
  
  http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/genomic … _nine.html
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  Baileybearposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  what 'race' are you assuming I am anyway?
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  Baileybearposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  btw - there human 'races' do not exist in modern humans - we are all the same 'race' ('species')
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  Baileybearposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  the irony is, that nearly everyone that lives in countries like America, Australia, New Zealand are born of immigrants that stole the country off the indigenous people that were there first.
  
  You Americans rant on about what it means to be American. Some Australians do the same about Australia.
  
  Western countries think people are miserable if they don't have lots of mod-cons and lead a simple life. The Australian Aborigines were self-suffficient and happy in their culture until the Europeans turned up.
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  74
  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If those same Aboriginies had done what I believe must be done now to the criminal immigrants (deportation or execution), then the Aboriginies would still be content in thier homeland.
  
  ...and by the way I'm one of the original inhabitants of the United States. I'm a descendant of the Cherokee people. So what the Criminal Invaders are attempting to do now has already been done to me once. (Don't worry, the racial slur you lobbed at me earlier really didn't hurt my feelings).
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  Baileybearposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  you sound exactly like James Watkins (you're not him in disguise are you?)
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  Baileybearposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The western world materialism may provide a reasonably comfortable lifestyle, but 'beautiful'? How shallow
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Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years ago
For the record I posted this topic in the Religious Options forum as opposed to the Political one because it is a religious/moral decision not a legal one, since the legality of ILLEGAL Immigration isn't in question.
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  Baileybearposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  well seems like US politics and religion are one and the same anyway
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  Eaglekiwiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Speaking of Commonwealth countries so too is the Church of England New Zealands head of states affiliation.
  
  Cant get away from those religious pompous heads
  
  Jesus had the Pharisees, we have the Monarch
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SpanStarposted 12 years ago
Killing a person versus what I perceive to be life incarceration as it pertains to America's justice system. This is not an easy question to answer but I'll throw my hat in the ring. Life is a very precious thing and many people have given their lives in an attempt to preserve their way of life. Military soldiers who have been prisoners of war talk of the inhumane suffering they had to endure at the hands of their captors. As they suffered day in and day out they explain to the reporters they maintain their sanity because even though they were in prison in their mind they were still free.

Any rational person does not want to see anyone on death row, now having said that when it comes to incarceration there have been and I believe still are some people who are worse then the legal system itself. These sociopaths have no regard for human life. They feel no remorse for the brutality they inflict. The criminal behavior from some of these people have sickened Harden police officers. Personally it seems an insult for innocent people to have suffered horribly at the hands of an individual/s who cannot be trusted around other human beings. To care for this person's medical, social, financial and what other needs they might have while we bury their victims and simply forget about them.

From my view it would be ridiculous for sheep to invite the coyote in to break bread with them. Once the coyote gets out of confinement guess what they're going to do.
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Onusonusposted 12 years ago
Being alive is way better than being dead by far. What do dead people get to do except eat dirt? Nothing.
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1. 61
  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Dead people usually have no appetite.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm going to have to disagree...
  
  All the Zombie movies I've ever seen are full of dead people running around eating anyone they can get thier hands on...
  
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  carol3sanposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Am I missing something? I thought movies were fake. So because those old horror movies are fake, Mikel G Roberts, I will disagree with you.
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  Hollie Thomasposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I have to agree with carol3san, they are in fact just movies and have no bearing on reality.
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awareposted 12 years ago
Taking a human life . is the worst thing one can do. Its rule 1. to me
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1. 49
  paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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brotheryochananposted 12 years ago
If this is supposed to be an allegory of a christian lifestyle,

then i will simply say, "There is no miserable life and no cruel master."
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