Dishonesty Within the Ranks of Christians

1. 60

   Cgenaeaposted 9 years ago

   No one knows the day nor hour, save the FATHER ALONE..." -Jesus
   Would he be THAT tricky and tell a lie???
   "I know... but I'm not gonna tell."
   Father!!! Why have thou forsaken me?"
   Now i see where the idea that Jesus was a nut came from. His dear, sweet, loving children are lying in his name. He WAS the SON of God...

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   1. 61

      William Avittposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.
      John 1:1-5
      
      Jesus was the Word.  The Word was God.  Jesus is God.  How is that so hard to accept?   It's right there in plain English

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2. 60

   Cgenaeaposted 9 years ago

   IS

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3. 60

   Cgenaeaposted 9 years ago

   Avitt...
   If the word was WITH God, then maybe the "word" was made by God first? Then built everything around that word???
   Jesus who came into the world as the living breathing WORD of God was with God from the beginning (possibly only a thought In the mind of God as he made everything)???
   Jesus called out to his father many times... now I've heard of bein' ur own grandpa...but your own pa??? Whom you consistently call out to??? Why not just say, "I'm gon' forgive them, cause they know not what they do..."???
   And Jesus stated that he would sit at the right hand of his father. (I know iv said this before...) have you ever tried to sit at your own right hand???
   Think with the Holy Spirit. But you gotta receive it first.

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4. 60

   Cgenaeaposted 9 years ago

   Emile...
   Did you find where I'm coming up with this stuff yet???
   To add to my post to the super one (short for superior, btw... lol) Jesus also stated that the holy spirit would be sent...
   Is that a clue that it wasnt already there, like Jesus, who was speaking, was??? Jesus said it. I believe it... what say you???

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5. 60

   Cgenaeaposted 9 years ago

   Emile,  my feed hasn't caught up yet...
   But quoting scripture, is a job for people who know how to handle it. Very dangerous to go wielding without lessons...
   You have described the masses to a tee...not the one they hate...
   Jesus was NOT schizophrenic. Nor did hehave mmultiple personalities. He was the SON. Who spoke of his FATHER. And sent the SPIRIT.

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6. 60

   Cgenaeaposted 9 years ago

   No one's pushing multiple Gods from my camp. There is but one. Jesus said that. And he confirmed MANY TIMES that he wasn't it...
   He said, "My father sent me."
   Does that sound like a man who has come himself??? In his own name??? Rationally???

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7. 60

   Cgenaeaposted 9 years ago

   Has anyone found anything biblical about death in heaven yet??? I feel I've lost someone.

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8. 0

   Rad Manposted 9 years ago

   PhoenixV wrote
   "Now we are getting somewhere. Loving God with all your heart heart mind and soul is the First and Greatest Commandment period. All the rest is your opinion."
   
   Phoenix, I have to say you are out to lunch on that one. One can be be lead down the wrong path by putting God ahead of humanity. That's why we have had all those holy wars. That's why we have ISIS and hatred towards non-believers and homosexuals.
   
   Put your love in humanity and you can do no wrong. The bible an Quran have to many laws that go against what's good for humanity. Look to ethics and morality.

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   1. 62

      PhoenixVposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      The discourse is on the veracity of the scripture and verse. But it comes as no surprise that they refuse to acknowledge God and put men first.

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         Rad Manposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         Right, humanity first. Why would any God want to do anything differently? What you are doing is as ethical as what ISIS is doing. Men can be lead down the wrong path attempting to put their version of God before humanity. If we followed your Gods laws we'd be or we'd be still owning slaves. Is slavery right for humanity?

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      2. 60

         Cgenaeaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         And, how!!!

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   2. 60

      Cgenaeaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Paraphrased...
      Phoenix, sometimes you have to just push your God to the back burner, if it looks to you, like someone's feelings might get hurt. No, Jesus didn't have ANY regard for the feelings of them he called snakes, nor the people he had to whip. But you are not Jesus.
      Yes, I know he said do as I do, but who you gonna believe? God... or your own fully-capable mind??? Make the right choice.
      
      How'd I do???

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9. 0

   Rad Manposted 9 years ago

   Cgenaea, the good people of ISIS are using the very same argument. Do you see the flaw in their philosophy?
   
   If any God would ask us to not put humanity first he is a false God. What you are doing instead of putting humanity first, your putting the needs and wants of a group of greedy goat herders ahead of our own and as a result hurting real good people.

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10. 0

    Rad Manposted 9 years ago

    Paul also said something to the effect that slaves should obey their master as the master should obey God. Which renders scripture meaningless and useless as it leads us down the wrong path.

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11. 0

    SirDentposted 9 years ago

    God sent His Son Jesus to die for the sins of all men. We are to be like Christ in all ways. We are to have the mind of Christ. Christ showed the faults of man while yet maintaining mercy and grace toward them. This is what the "Real Christians" need to do.

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    1. 0

       Emile Rposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       I agree Sir Dent. I think, the problem is primarily that people don't see eye to eye as to how that is done. We all have ideas and they appear to be at odds.

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    2. 58

       Righteous Atheistposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Well - when you say "die" you mean "pretend dead for 3 days out of 13.8 billion years," - right? No biggie then. I would have pretend murdered my child for that length of time if I was too cowardly to do it myself after I set in motion the need for it. Oh wait - that doesn't make any sense.......

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12. 60

    Cgenaeaposted 9 years ago

    They who walk by spirit, and not by sight, know the voice of God. They've been practicing...
    The word is in their hearts. The verse and chapter does not always come, but... they KNOW the voice of God...
    You quote from a book you deem inept at guiding you through life because of all the misprints... No problem... for me...

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13. 0

    Rad Manposted 9 years ago

    I'm curious SirDent, how exactly was Jesus a son to God? A son is defined as the male offspring of an animal. Was Jesus with God before he came to earth? Does God have DNA that he passed onto marry and then told her what he had done?

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    1. 72

       Jomine Joseposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Mitosis probably but that usually make them sisters.
       But don't ask such difficult questions , just believe.
       Satan is the one who thinks and make others think, god only like ass and its colt.

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14. 0

    Emile Rposted 9 years ago

    I always enjoy when the religious act in this manner and comment on the snakes and those who were whipped. They were the religious who refused to follow the spirit of the law of their time.
    
    You ask who we are going to believe? Well, Jesus was talking to the religious so, I guess we should believe him.

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15. 60

    Cgenaeaposted 9 years ago

    SirDent,
    He sent his son to die for all men, so that all who would believe, would be saved.
    "How then shall they call on Him..."?
    Mercy and grace toward nonbelievers?
    "Jesus loves you, he died on the cross for your..."
    Naw!!! Aint no God!!!" Kinda mercy?
    I love your way too... I really want to understand what you are saying, specifically to me. Humbly, I ask.

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    1. 0

       SirDentposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       What I wrote before was not for anyone specific one.  It is for all who will receive it.

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16. 95

    Thomas Swanposted 9 years ago

    Well I've known Christians who've told the most horrendous lies... and with a clear intent to cause another person serious distress. They'll fill their environment with hatred, make false accusations against people, wish others serious harm, and still pretend to be a good, God-fearing person. Can these poisonous, hate-filled people genuinely believe they'll be going to heaven? I know some try to justify the behavior by claiming their attacks are directed at "evil doers", though I think some revel in their hatred so much that they create evil where it doesn't exist. I think another possibility is these folk aren't really Christian at all. They just like to say they are because it helps them sleep at night.
    
    If there is a God, I doubt he'd forgive people just because they believe Jesus died for their sins... especially if they continued their campaign of hatred while still professing to hold that belief.

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17. 83

    oceansnsunsetsposted 9 years ago

    A brand new person, here a whole two days,claiming no one has used scripture but them, is simply not true. I recall goin and looking up the scriptures just last night to make sure i was right about what I was going to say in response before I responded.  I did by memory a few times, and it helped to make my points that went ignored for what seem obvious reasons.  I'm sure others have as well.  The spirit of this person is one I recognize very well.  It's exactly the same but not wanting  to appear it be who they are for some strange reason.  I see it, I'm not fooled.  Love looks like one thing to you , and by your own standards and judgements ,fails with half the people here.  So this is hypocrisy at least.
    
    Sir Dent is 100% right about how Jesus dealt with correcting truth, which is what you do for those you love   I fail at times and get baited in, admittedly, but the standard in Jesus is still there regarding these life and death matters especially.  Like Cat, she saw all of this, called it what it was and shook the dust off as Jesus would have.  Look what good has it done to try truth and reason in here?  People have to first value those things. 
    
    Another option is to correct  the ongoing lies an smears rather than joining in with them, no matter what the personal gain it might bring you, or feelings, specialness, and very obvious self righteousness being put forward. Maintaining the facade while judging even after leaving is so obvious. 
    
    A new person that just so happens to buffet your personally held detailed beliefs to the degree we see is so obvious, yet having he exact objectives is i think meant to be obvious and now another is added to your numbers lol. Know in how to see and respond to posts that have bet yet come through like a seasoned forum user, etc. 
    
    Emile had deemed you, one of  two faces of Christianity lol, the Emile that judges  others like to play god, never looking at a mirror  and seeing how this hypocrisy helps to expose what wants to be hidden. As long as Emile is your final judge then I guess all  is good!  All these things I'm speaking about are observation and create sting, but not by my  hand or the others exposing.  It explains what you all deem as unloving while continually going after others on one side so unfairly and inaccurately, exposing the true lack of love, lack of truth.  This has been shown over and over but the belief against the obvious truths is so strong that facts can't begin to break through. 
    
    Personally, if that were me I would see it as very loving, the people taking the undue heat and smearing because of their efforts to show truth instead.  I firmly believe truth, and reality is a huge part of life, and these are life and death topics.  That many have the confidence to wait, and be treated in these ways, till the time when all will be exposed anyway, shows the depth of their love and strength of character and conviction for all here.  To expect perfection always in the face of the treatment, or else be deemed not loving or a true Christian, is another tall order and tactic , but Christ did that first.  He also went silent to some as needed even when on trial, and his love is not in question.  He knew what was going on, knew how some were not at all interested in truth.  The ones that wanted to make a mockery of truth and him.  He often fled them, but was still the epitome of love. He was no idiot.  They loved Making a mockery of it, and of the ONE that brought the most love and truth of all.  His encouraging words for those that would experience the same still stand.  All they did was judge and even sneer and spit at times, wanting him dead.

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    1. 62

       PhoenixVposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: Jesus came that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. Jesus is the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. John
       
       Therefore, ye shepherds, hear the word of the Lord; As I live, saith the Lord God, surely because my flock became a prey, and my flock became meat to every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, neither did my shepherds search for my flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not my flock. Ezekiel
       
       Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened. Zechariah

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    2. 0

       Emile Rposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       There is the problem in a nutshell oceans. Superman is sharing his understanding of the truth. You don't give him the same courtesy you are demanding be given to you.

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18. 83

    oceansnsunsetsposted 9 years ago

    Anyone can accuse others over and over while not feeling the need to make a case at all. That's the super easy way out.  Pretending to engage while ignoring the points and avoiding "mirrors" to our own parallel actions , then heaping on more accusation is also easy, not clever, and transparent.

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19. 0

    Emile Rposted 9 years ago

    If this was directed at me (and I can't see how it wouldn't be considering the posts you've directed my way thus far) I can only say you don't get to cry foul when you are doing the same things. I started this thread because of what I considered to be bullying tactics by the fundamentalist mentality. I have watched you guys bully people throughout other threads. I have felt bullied myself. I have repeatedly explained the why but that isn't good enough. You have consistently turned a blind eye to behavior patterns and then cried foul when they were returned, in kind.
    
    You have not shown the ability to even give a semblance of impartiality. Even with superman. You rushed in and commented that it wasn't cool to accuse bBearean of saying something so unkind. When it was pointed out he had, indeed, said it; you never commented again. Leaving me to assume that whatever he does is oootay with you.
    
    You cannot back vitriol without expecting that, at some point, people will get fed up and return it. Deal with it.

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20. 70

    JMcFarlandposted 9 years ago

    If anyone is actually buying the not so subtle insinuation that superman is actually MoTown in sock puppet disguise,  you're absolutely ridiculous.   Mo never got into dogmatic arguments about doctrine with anyone and didn't have any desire to act like a Catholic apologist.   She also has a husband and had not had her tubes tied.   The insinuations just make the people making them look foolish, and they're doing a good enough job of that already.

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21. 0

    SirDentposted 9 years ago

    I can't see who posted to what replies, etc. . .

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22. 0

    SirDentposted 9 years ago

    A scenario bout judging. 
    
    Where I live we do not have streets and sidewalks.  We have a two lane road and that's it.  It is against the law to drive on the left side of the doulbe yellow lines.  Punishable with a ticket, most likely unless you are intoxicated.
    
    If I see a person walking on this road toward me in my lane, do I stay on my side to keep from crossing the center line, which is illegal?  If I do not move over, the one walking will be hit with my car. 
    
    Now I ask, which should I do?

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    1. 83

       oceansnsunsetsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Preservation of life and safety always takes priority I would think, in such a situation.

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    2. 62

       PhoenixVposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       The person walking down the road aint carrying a knife and trying to kill children is he? If so, it is your duty to mow him down with your car. Now if thats not the case, then that is why we have courts for establishing things like negligence. If someone is walking down the middle of your lane, that negligence can cause a serious accident. People can stop abruptly and get rear-ended and folks can put their faces through their windshields. However, if a motorist, can exercise reasonable care and avoid hitting the guy walking in the middle of the road - but does not exercise reasonable care, then it becomes contributory negligence.

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23. 0

    SirDentposted 9 years ago

    I agree JM.  That is not Mo's MO.

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24. 0

    SirDentposted 9 years ago

    I am asking, what would be the right thing to do?

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    1. 0

       Emile Rposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Well, I certainly wouldn't run someone over just in order to stay within the limits of the law. I'm sure no one would.

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          SirDentposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          Great answer.  I move over all the time to keep from hitting people.  The breaking of the law is actually justified in a case like that. 
          
          Jesus said, "Do not judge according to appearances but judge righteous judgment."  Most will judge a man who is dirty to be a dirty filthy man without giving thought to the type of work he might do.  Most men around where I live work in coal mines and black faces are a part of their work.  Coal dust sticks to their skin and clothes.  That is how it is.

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       2. 0

          SirDentposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          
          Neither would I.  Another question.  Would an officer have the right to pull me over and give me a ticket for driving left of center when I only did it to keep from hitting a pedestrian?

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25. 0

    SirDentposted 9 years ago

    Well, maybe this will help me to see who replies to whom.

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26. 0

    SirDentposted 9 years ago

    That didn't work so I will try once more and see what happens.

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27. 0

    Emile Rposted 9 years ago

    I get what you mean. Someone was laughing the other day about the Mennonite women around here. Putting them down for having dirty fingernails. I told them it was a sign they weren't afraid of honest labor.

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28. 0

    SirDentposted 9 years ago

    I know very little about Mennonites.  I do know they are similar to the Amish.  I could be wrong but I do know the AMish are hardworking people.  It is hard to keep clean hands when working all the time. 
    
    I like the answer you gave to those scorners.

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29. 0

    SirDentposted 9 years ago

    Yes, many do not see the whole picture.  The woman caught in the act of adultery, for instance.  Jesus said, "Let he who is without isn cast the first stone."  Which of all those men was sinless?  Only Jesus.  Those men caught that woman doing somehting that is ordinarily done in private.  How did they catch her? What did they actually see her doing?  You see, Jesus also showed those men mercy because they also would have been stoned for trangressing the law by seeing the act the woman did.
    
    What others fail to notice is that Jesus told the woman, "Go and sin no more."  Mercy is given but there is a price to pay when that mercy is walked on.

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30. 0

    Rad Manposted 9 years ago

    SirDent, I don't know the laws where you live, but I'd be surprised if there is in fact a law on the book that prevents someone from crossing the yellow line and one that the police enforce. Those lines are simply guides, if they were covered in show you wouldn't be able to see them.
    
    I'm not sure what you are getting at with this? It's not illegal for instance to on a two lane highway to pass a car by going into the oncoming traffic lane.

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31. 73

    lone77starposted 9 years ago

    Emile R, sad indeed when any group becomes calcified in egoism. But using the term "group" must be taken carefully. Each of its members are individuals and individually different. Many good Christians who live lives of love and service do not visit forums online.
    
    In your frustration, have you lumped the good with the bad? Or is it you have never found any good?
    
    I have found you, too, hiding behind ego, on occasion, protecting your viewpoint with blindness, jumping to conclusions that are safe. Perhaps we all do this, on occasion.
    
    The universe is friendly, especially when we are not self-concerned. This is what Jesus was talking about. Any self-concern is evil and a source of suffering. Jesus said that the First (egoist) shall be last (and that may end up being most so-called Christians); and the Last (humble) shall be first.
    
    But getting rid of self-concern (Ego) is not easy, because we have decided that the things of Ego are valuable. We've become attached to them.
    
    Christians who have lost their way are confusing Ego with Truth. They are following self-concern rather than Christ and Love.
    
    Dishonesty within the ranks of Christians? Absolutely! But that doesn't condemn all Christians.
    
    Dishonesty within the ranks of humans? Absolutely! But that doesn't condemn all humans.
    
    Christianity has become watered down by reasonableness and waffling over things that seem unreasonable. Reason is a good thing, up to a point. But when a person attempts to put the reason of physical reality on top of spiritual concerns, it remains a mismatch. It's like a bush native putting a burning stick in a bottle to create a light bulb. Creative, but done without sufficient understanding. Here, contrary to Occam's Razor, we need greater "complexity" in order to get it right.

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32. 61

    William Avittposted 9 years ago

    "Dishonesty within the ranks of Christians? Absolutely! But that doesn't condemn all Christians."
    
    She isn't condemning all Christians.  In fact, I have noticed on this thread she has taken every Christian, and every poster, by their own words.  When someone condemns the reprehensible things being done in the name of the Lord, Emile is quick to recognize that person.  Her disappointment comes, and we've seen it here in spades, that it does seem to be a very vocal majority of "christians" that do not truly understand what God has required of us, and that they seem to really take issue with the command to love our neighbor as we love ourselves, and the commands against passing judgment on others.  It is disheartening.  Many fundamentalists Christians have problems with being able to treat someone who believes differently than them with the basic human respect that everyone deserves as God's creatures.  It absolutely is disconcerting. 
    
    I am quite sure that Emile understands that not all Christians remain in the dark and are having trouble dying to themselves as those who have shown themselves here, and the rest of the vocal majority out in the world.  But I don't blame her for having a heavy heart on the subject.  What these self-proclaimed believers simply refuse to understand is that their behavior drives people away from the faith.  And that is truly a tragedy.

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33. 59

    Judith M Mosleyposted 9 years ago

    Emile R, you are right. These people do help to give Christianity a bad name. The truth is that they do not speak for all of us. We are in the trenches everyday, trying to live out what Jesus taught. We are introducing others to Christ and helping our neighbors, desirous that Jesus would work in our hearts, so we would be the disciples He has called us to be.
    
    Unfortunately, the true work of the church is often forgotten, because some of us have pet projects that have to be espoused. Jesus told us to go into all the world and make disciples. If we did that, all these other side issues, no matter how important they may seem, would not be our focus.
    Judith

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34. 0

    SirDentposted 9 years ago

    There are only certain marked segments of highway where you can pass another vehicle, where I live.  They are marked with a dotted line and the dotted part must be on your side or no solid line at all. 
    
    The scenario was not if they would give a ticket but "could" they give one.  Also, the video linked below shows how far some police officers will go to enforce the law, even if it is a very minor offense and ignorant in my opinion.  The video is less than three minutes.
    
    http://vimeo.com/110782240

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