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I've been supportive of Christians for the most part. Probably because of the respect I hold for the ministry of Jesus and the goodness I believe is the heart of the universe.
I've lost the ability to support you guys. The lies and innuendo, the games many play circumventing the truth, the total lack of regard most show toward their fellow man in order to prop up their egos. The gyrations around verses in order to circumvent the spirit of the intent.
I'm done finding reason to attempt to find reason in your arguments. You've allowed the fringe to define you to those outside the faith too long for me to continue to give the religion the benefit of the doubt.
It's really very sad that these have become the face of Christianity.
Yes, dogmas must be up-rooted.
- but, they don't want any uprooting. Keep those weeds in place. Hide the beautiful flowers growing right beneath them.
On the surface it seems like a good idea, but when you dig in you find a mountain of hypocrisy, delusions and lies.
Yes. The teachings of Jesus are a good idea. It's simply the problem with everyone agreeing to that; but not wanting to follow them.
We all have to interpret them don't we. I mean you don't think to many people will gouge out our eyes because we notice pretty women do you? I don't see very many Christians offering the other cheek when slapped in the face.
As opposed to how you interpret them? Or as a Catholic or a Lutheran or a Calvanist or a unitarian interprets them?
Correct. Since none of those groups would agree with her statement that they are going against Jesus teachings, it required clarification.
I disagree. I've seen lots of Christians speak out against actions both past and present that have been carried out in the name of Jesus or the church, Insisting that those actions go against his teachings and condemning them as not indicative of how Christians should behave. If you haven't seen it, you aren't paying attention.
Whose interpretation should we follow, and why? Why would an all knowing, all powerful good be so inept at communication that his written word has to be translated and interpreted in the first place? Surely he could fax down copies from heaven that are clear and easily understood in every language on earth so that there are not 40,000 denominations and schisms in the first place.
Not necessary, that is what the Holy Spirit is for. You don't believe in it, so nothing to talk about. You will point out people who do rely on spirituality have different interpretations too, which is what deceiving spirits are all about. Next you'll want to know how I know mine is correct, but it is silly to discuss how to apply spiritual discernment with someone who considers the premise false.
This right here is the problem with fundamentalist Christians. "You aren't a believer, so why should I try to explain anything to you?" Well, because that's how we have a dialogue. Apparently it doesn't bother you that people on this thread are basically reaching out saying "Please, make me believe all Christians aren't like this." I'm seeing a lot of people here that really, really want to be tolerant of something they don't fully understand, and you're making it difficult for them. It saddens my heart, honestly.
To everyone else here, I am a believer. I was saved when I was 16 and I am now 34. I love God and I am always willing to speak about him with someone else. That said, I fight a crusade against fundamentalist Christians almost ever day. Those who are judgmental and just downright mean to people who don't fit into their small, closed-minded little box of what Christians should be and it is just really sad. Basically what I am trying to say is, chin up. Judge individual believers by their actions and don't judge all of us by those who seem to have never gotten the "Love your neighbor as yourself" memo. Cheers!
Much ado about nothing... unfortunately, this is a very old conversation. Most of us have been here for years.
It looks like you may be new (though I've been fooled temporarily, before), so, Welcome!
Difficult? No... mostly all of the kingdom of God has been mulled over (I said years)
Mockery. Blasphemy. Disbelief. Slander.
They're having a ball...
But, seeds are sown.
Seeds of discord are sown. By the fundamentalist mentality.
Those who push the conflict will, hopefully, someday realize the following:
1. You are not God.
2. You do not speak for God.
3. Conclusions you draw from reading the text are not necessarily conclusions God expected you to draw, nor are they conclusions expected to be drawn by others.
Failure to tread lightly shows a lack of understanding of the reality of the problem.
Seeds of discord are sown by everyone here. however we (I) are not looking to mingle with all of God's created. Many mostly just like to go along with what is nice and fair in the eyes of men.
Those who "push" the conflicts have absolutely nothing to do with God...and they will say that on any given day.
None of us are God, true, and Jesus did speak for God. I think and we each respond in whatever way we will and then what happens will happen. Speaking in such vagueness "the fundamentalist mentality" while not giving an example doesn't help us to address the particulars of your concern.
That said, in general I agree with the above, and will add that we EACH could have a wrong conclusion drawn. (You included. Then, who are the fair arbiters, if not the scriptures in their totality?) All we can do is encourage each other to be as completely honest when reading the texts and honest in our conclusions. This is really between God and each of us anyway. Of course we see discord, and that is unpleasant. What you say here makes a lot more simple sense to me than your OP and many other posts.
Do you tread lightly? How do you suggest I tread more lightly?
Do I tread lightly? I'm not attempting to teach or lead. I will make my opinions known when others are attempting to do so. Calling us swine, making statements like 'Get thee behind me' when in disagreement (as if we are somehow representative of satanic thought), insisting only those who agree with a narrow interpretation have access to 'the spirit'............generally belittling any other opinions by claiming they are not biblical. No. I won't tread lightly under those circumstances.
Any attempt I make to be respectful is not responded to, in kind, by some. I actually had some jerk tell me I was making it up as I went. Which means, I suppose, that anyone who agrees with him is somehow better at reading and coming to conclusions. The rest of us just suck at it.
You are attempting to put down a whole group of people in the OP. The comment where you say some jerk told you were making it up as you were going along, I saw. You had a very strong knee jerk reaction to what I saw as a suggestion. Could you be making it up as you go along? So upsetting you stopped talking to them when I have seen much much worse from you? You want to claim to be so fair and moral but I honestly am seeing it less and less from you. I have observed you off an on in the forums for a long time. I have commented on the 180 changes when I saw them, and it is drastic enough that I have literally truly wondered about some things.
It seems VERY unclear at best, as indicated by my posts and your responses and my subsequent posts. You recently used similar to almost the same words btw, "making it up as you go along", and no one is stopping talking to you for that "horrifying comment". That is because that isn't a reasonable thing to stop interacting with someone over, especially in these forums. Its a least kind of offense. It seems some offense is wanting to be taken almost. That same person was making some very excellent points, not easily rebutted. So I took that for what it appeared to be, since you aren't sharing too much more with us. I seemed to need to be reminded by you that you DO care about the teachings of Jesus as shared in the bible, but do you see that with all you have been saying, it got to wondering if you even see them as reliable? Haven't you alluded too their transmission down to us in such ways? Let us be clear on who isn't being totally clear. By the way, that same person stuck their neck out for you wayyy back and got banned for months for it. He won't like me sharing that, but its the truth. I recall that whole thing as if it was yesterday, and I saw it coming and the bans came. You have impressed a lot in the past and people like you for being so fair minded a person even when the people you were defending as need be, weren't on the same "team" as you, so to speak. Now it seems all has changed. Don't get on that other bandwagon of assuming the worst about those that have taken a great deal of time to assume the best about you. You maybe didn't know that, so I share it.
Someone calling you swine isn't something I would stand behind, btw. There is no reason for that. As for the topic of the "spirit" stuff, that to me is more the kind of talk that Christians that believe in a like manner would discuss with each other, not with unbelievers. So I cringe when I see it some, because of course it will come off as sounding a bit off or almost crazy. It invites trouble rather than truly helps I think. I am trying to be as fair as I can Emile. I wouldn't use the term "get behind me" either probably, because I don't find that helpful and Jesus used it with Peter and we know what he was referring to. Is that what this thread is all about, those examples?
Thanks for posting. I don't judge all by the fundamentalist tripe pushed here. I simply wonder why more don't speak out strongly against it. But, I guess it's a balancing act. You can only speak out for so long before you realize it's dragging you down to their level.
I do take umbrage with those who attempt to insist we 'hate God, are mocking God, slandering God'' when we disagree. It's as if they don't understand that they aren't God.
So now you want to pretend as if... lol
I guess you're good at "coy" too.
You are the most avid slanderer and judge of God himself, that I have encountered on these pages. I take umbrage with that.
I find that personally offensive. Emile has defended scripture far more often than not and when she does question it and some of it's followers you incorrectly claim she blasphemes more than I? How dare you?
This is more tailored than simple successful blasphemy. It is specifically unsay...
Your title is still safe.
This brings up an interesting question. I wonder if accusing someone of blasphemy is considered as bad as blaspheming. Because if they aren't blaspheming and you accuse them of it you are basically blaspheming. I would think. Of course if you know they aren't blaspheming and say they are, that's two wrongs. I doubt that would make a cosmic right. Unless you are of the mentality I've run across before. 'Everything is fair in spiritual warfare.' I find that philosophy offensive also.
God knows the heart of man. He knows better than we, our very own hearts. He will not be fooled into punishing someone who was sincere in the ways that he laid out. If HE is FOR you, he's more than the whole entire world against you. Have no fear, unless...
I have no fear. Ample sadness that people would use the word God to cause such harm...but, no fear.
Sadness is good. Jesus was sad... he caused great harm to the ego... I wonder if that is the problem most have...
I see that you have no fear... but that may not be a good thing...
Since judgment is not yours; maybe you'd be more productive wondering about things that are in the arena of what is your business?
I am about my father's business. No fear of being judged from the perspective of outsiders.
But, you can go around judging everyone else? Good to know. Must be grand being you; at least, from your perspective.
I judge no one. But I guess it would be hard to seperate me, from what I say... Jesus knew it would happen. He prepared me.
This is rather pathetic. Believe whatever negative you need to believe in order to make yourself feel better. I promise, I'm trying not to do the same to you.
I am at the point that while a bit scary at times, I am glad God is the final and really only judge of me. Not too lenient, nor too harsh, full of grace and mercy and incredible patience. When I see this world and the direction it is going it is alarming. It is good to know some things never change, and that truth is constant. I have to stick with that, because what else is there? He knows our hearts and minds and what has been revealed to each and every one.
2 Timothy 4:1-5 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
I equate reality with truth, for the most part, which is what I said is what I am sticking with. Thus, what else is there. So you agree. Let me clarity, actual reality. Which is probably what you meant.
Well that's the problem isn't it?
The world or the state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them.
Existing only in theory or as a suggestion or idea.
Your concept of God is a theory at best which negates reality.
If you esteem reality and I esteem truth and reality, then we esteem the same.
What you bring up, God and the idea of him, is a whole other thing. We know where you and I stand on that issue, and I clearly understand you think he isn't reality or truth.
I think from origins on, God is the best explanation that can "get it done" over all other explanations, on multiple levels. That isn't a discussion I need or want to rehash now. But I know you think its a problem, that I think God is truth and reality. Thanks for the reminder.
When you can explain the existence of said God, get back to me. A God made some sense when we thought the earth was the centre of the universe, but we now know differently, we are but a blip in the existence of space time. We are nothing of importance and will most likely come and go without anyone noticing, much like an an ant hill in a forest.
I'm glad he's BIG too! The bestest of fortresses!!!
Hiiiii!!! I slept from 9a-5p today!!!
I've read 4 pgs already and quite an interesting read!
Strong soldiers yous are!!!
I'm catching up.
Thanks rad man. I didn't see that post and would have found it difficult to respond to. I keep explaining she isn't God but I don't think she believes it yet.
If your memo saying "love your neighbor" says you do that by packing a lunch and offering encouragement regarding a journey on a road to destruction, or that a luke warm stance while trying to win the love of the world by itching their ears is helping them, you may want to check the signature on the memo. Taken in the context of scripture, you will find it holds a different meaning.
Even though they are not qualified to judge the difference between their hand or a cow, regarding belief because of unbelief and nonacceptance of scripture, some like to make the sweeping generalization of "fundamentalist" for a very specific reason. That way they can enlist a weaker person by playing on their conscience to "target" their "spiritual enemy" for them.
Edit: PS If that tactic fails, some will make the sweeping generalization of fundamentalist so that way they can publicly slander people by comparing their sweeping generalization of a fundamentalist, to an extremist.
Agreed. Although sad yet in a way humorous, I grow weary of the more ridiculous posts and rarely dignify them with a response anymore. I am sure those posting such foolish and emotionally charged comparisons would pass the empty seat next to me on the bus that they might sit with a Jihadist, or their favorite concentration camp guard fresh off manning the ovens.
On the previous tactic I wanted to once again note how very specific the tactic is.
They reject scripture. Then they illogically claim they can determine which adherence is correct. Then they plead for others to target, challenge or strongly oppose those they have deemed fundamentalist.
Is there no scripture you reject? Are you not casting the first stone?
So we should be killing disobedient boys and promiscuous girls then?
Do you reject that scripture?
It's the way of the world. Unsay what God said!!!
But the bible says, "Abide HERE; stand strong; do not be moved; cry loud and spare not; for behold, I am with thee; and if I be for you... Follow me."
Huh. Do you think those few muslims who attempt to teach people that the earth is egg shaped are doing the world any good or harm?
If one is denying known facts because of the writings of people thousand of years ago there is something fundamentally wrong. It is hurtful to pretend and attempt to persuade the next generation science is wrong without evidence that it's wrong.
They want a candy coated Jesus. Any verse or version of Jesus that does not line-up with their soda pop and bubble gum version of Jesus that they have created in their mind, then they will reply with vacuous unsubstantiated claims of; " that dont count". They will allude to wild conspiracy theories of: someone else said that! or, the things "I want the scripture to say" got "conveniently lost". Especially convenient for them, because their faux argument has a built-in lack of provable merit, from the git-go.
Then some will unbelievably, make the most ridiculous claim of all: that Jesus didn't even delve into the Old Testament. The same Jesus that said:
It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Jesus was an expert of the Torah and the books of the Bible. Personally I would be hard pressed to find something that Jesus said or taught that wasn't directly inferred from the OT.
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearc … tnumber=26
"Jesus was an expert of the Torah and the books of the Bible."
Really? Jesus was an expert on a book that would not be written for generations to come? It is this kind of statement that leaves the rest of the world rather breathless when it comes to believing the words of the faithful.
When I said : Torah and the books of the Bible I am specifically talking about the Torah and the other books of the OT than the Pentateuch or first 5.
Maybe we should change it from It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God, "pending certain approval". And we will just make it up as we go along.
Jesus showed expert knowledge in the older books. Even when lost as a child, he showed he had knowledge of the scriptures when he was lost and found "in his Father's house" the temple. He amazed everyone, maybe especially the religious leaders.
He knew the scriptures so well, and had to for the upcoming accusations of the religious leaders against him, that also knew those scriptures well. They felt a very strong need to accuse him and trip him up and wanted to use the scriptures against him. He showed expert handling of even more scriptures when they did this, so they had nothing to do but just be quiet.... (and want him dead all the more, which is crazy but telling....)
He often quoted OT scripture, and used it when defending against the temptations in the wilderness when he was fasting for 40 days. I might have missed the post, but if there was a suggestion he didn't support the scriptures, know them, or quote them in his teachings etc, then that is a simple factual error. A simple and quick reading of the gospels would show otherwise, which would make sense considering what he showed to all and who he claimed to be. These are just some of the things that come to mind when I am considering what could have preceded this part of the discussion. Paul was another one that was very learned in the OT teachings, but from a different point of view. He came full circle from persecuting to being the persecuted after his experience and opening of his eyes.
I always specify Torah, because I want to imply the spoken teachings too, that they would be aware of. Its just unbelievably odd for people to suggest that Jesus had nothing to do with OT...Its all He ever had.
I SAW THAT!!!
The spirit is real... covering EVERY base.
Here is the problem, you remind me of those Islamic extremists, doing what is clearly wrong because the Quran says it's right. The Quran says it's right to kill non-believers or anyone who leaves Islam, so they do just that, without thinking of what's right, because perhaps the Quran is wrong.
Now, the bible is different because it tells us to wait for judgment and that during that time try to help as many people love Jesus at any cost, at any way. You are (like Islamic extremists) doing just that, without thinking of what's right, because perhaps the bible is wrong.
If those Islamic extremist can be fooled by a book, why can't you?
I am floored!!!
I can actually SEE Jesus standing in the temple with these very life-changing, truthfully put together on the "loving" side of correction, water that leaves you satiated for eternity, words on his lips.
He has the whip... and anger in his eyes.
"How dare (you or anyone else) soothe a guilty conscience, so that my sheep be lulled into following you to destruction?"
He really gets mad at losing sheep to honey dripping from the "tap", I think.
Water... that's it...
Come on, JMc, Skype was set up originally so we could commune with the Lord, via Silicon Valley. But then genetal modification got in the way and it was regarded as sin.... so broken communication instead.
Must get a new mother board.
Good morning JM, how are you? It's nice to see you again. My tooth hurts, I'm starting a new job Mon. I am finding Grey's Anatomy incredibly tedious after season 4. What's the weather like where you are?
Sunny and warm above 80 degrees. Sorry about your tooth. Been there. Done that.
Been where? Tooth or Grey's Anatomy?
Do you find life to be overwhelming at times? If I were to focus on all my problems right now, I think I might be a bit overwhelmed. How do you deal with life when you're knee deep in it?
(It's raining here right now... lol... seems somehow appropriate.)
Beth, you seem to be in a bad place. Keep doing the things that need to be done, keep your head on those tasks and stay in the present, not the past or the future.
Look, I agree with Rad! Maybe a bit much on your plate for the turmoil that sometimes defines these forums. Focus on the light stuff until things clear a bit. Getting that tooth resolved will do wonders.
Good luck with the tooth from me too. I'm no stranger to the dental chair.
About life being overwhelming...everyone I know and love, family and friends, is majorly struggling. We are holding on to each other for dear life. Grab on.
Tooth and Greys anatomy. Both. I feel your pain.
It's easy to get overwhelmed being the most senior person in your position, working full time, going to school full time and making time for your hobbies, your friends and your family. I just have to focus on one day (sometimes one moment) at a time and go from there.
"My tooth hurts, "
Try a litlle warm water and salt and rinse near the tooth. Works for me
JMc, on the surface one has to agree. But when we look beneath the label, they are just men (and women). Some leaders with an agenda. Some followers with, well not much going for them. On either side of the Cross, man has the ability to reason. Some do and some don't.
Love God., Love your neighbor as yourself. How can one misinterpret that?
By not understanding Who said it, why He came, or what He did. Happens much more often than not.
How many people do you know that don't know and understand that story? You don't have to believe it to understand it.
Emile's protest has traditionally been against any holding that belief, even when it's not being actively preached.
I will admit that anyone who holds that belief does not, in my opinion, know any deity. So, it stands to reason that I would find claims of miraculous interventions for people holding that belief highly suspect. Granted, miraculous interventions are suspicious anyway. But, I don't doubt there are truly good people in the world and I don't doubt that there are people who deserve miraculous interventions. I don't consider evangelicals of falling into the first category. And, most of their claims don't represent someone who appears to be truly in need.
Seriously? Maybe it should read, love your neighbor as yourself after you've weighed measured and ensured you, personally, don't find them lacking. That would clarify. Yes?
Nope, not at all. If those words came from God, coming to die for your sins, that you might be saved from hell, loving your neighbor would include conveying that. Not as simple as coming from your idea of Jesus. Much more to it than that, but at least it illustrates the point. For the believer to withhold that little tidbit is neither loving nor honest.
Unfortunately you can't be sure you are right. Therefore your preaching may put someone one the wrong path.
I don't think it's difficult to tell if a particular version of God is as described by looking at the words in the Holy book. Does the description make sense. The question is does the description of the God of the bible make sense?
Some of those OT laws make no sense other than to make a group of men powerful.
Does it make sense that the god that these Hebrews were waiting for to came back and fulfill the prophesies came back and they didn't believe him?
It kind of does make sense. Do you think many Christians would recognize Jesus? I think they'd think he was anti Christian.
Are you kidding me. If he had fulfilled the prophesies they would jump all over that. Why does it suddenly make people believe when the story is read almost 100 years later? Probably because he didn't actually fulfill the prophesies, but the stories did.
No, that would distort. It's exactly that kind of thinking that Jesus was preaching against.
Still, despite the fact that, in a way, this is saying to those who want to beat the Christians down "Okay, you win," right now I can't think of a better reason or time to abandon the forums. With few exceptions they are usually ya-ya sessions (at least the religious ones,) and if one of the people who was at least trying to be open and fair-minded has decided that the broad brush is the way to go, then really, what more is there to say?
I'm so glad you agree on the loving your neighbor thing. And, I hope you aren't serious about that being a good reason to throw the towel in. You do a pretty good job of defending your beliefs. I think it serves a purpose. I don't agree with them, as you know, but you seem articulate enough to help people understand what they are and why you have them. Which is rare here.
Welcome back, Chris. I think your presence was missed and will be missed if you decide to move on from the forums. But the Spirit leads and we follow... The twisting of words is prevalent here, and I think several of us are beginning to see how futile our efforts are in this type of environment.
YAY!!! So glad you see the light. If you have something honest to share I'm sure you'll find a better reception.
Easy to misinterpret that!
Don't you know it's "Love thy neighbour as yourself.....unless of course you don't agree with them, their lifestyle, the way they raise their children, their religion or lack of, their skin colour,....."
At least that's how I've seen it interpreted...
EDIT....to clarify - interpreted by some. I do not group all Christians into one group....that would be foolish...(and I wonder if some Christians (not here) could do with that reminder??? )
God felt the same way. He'd had enough of man's sin.
(Bear with me for one moment, please.)
He told Abraham He was going to destroy the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah.
Abraham said "Lord if there are 50 good men... will you spare the cities?"
As Abraham begins thinking of the evil in this town... and the chances of finding that many good men... he begins to humbly lower the number.
"What about 10 men, Lord?" He finally says.
The Lord agrees. If God can find 10 good men, He will spare the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah.
God sends two angels to search the cities for 10 good men. Turns out the whole town tries to rape the angels. God brings down fire and brimstone... there were not 10 good men to be found. There were two men and two young women saved from the wrath of God. That's it. Even Abraham's wife... wiped out b/c she refused to obey.
Emile, you are special to me. I believe it is b/c God has put you on my heart. But with all due respect, you cannot judge an entire city unless you have spent time with each and everyone that dwells within that city. Were you God, you could judge righteously if every man were good or bad. You could see past the misunderstanding and assumption in our daily discussions, to the heart... but until you have that ability... keep your heart and your mind opened or you may write off some very special relationships that might just be a major joy in your life. I care very much for you and hope you will not write me off so quickly.
I doubt there is a person alive who is not aware of the Sodom and Gomorrah story. But, what in the OP gives you the impression that I am judging people with fire and brimstone? Who is claiming to be God? I'm judging the religion and what is allowed to pass for 'Christian' behavior. Obviously these behaviors are acceptable to those within the faith. I see no one within the faith challenging them. I realize that Christians are supposed to attempt to play nicely with Christians however, if you follow that and ignore unsociable behavior patterns which are passed off as God's will then one can only assume that any who do not challenge them agree with them.
I find many of these behavior patterns rather abhorrent so I can only find the faith so also. I could not imagine having a 'special relationship' with the hypocrisy involved in this religion.
Please note that this is not meant to be a judgment of you. Each person has to do what they believe to be right. I am not advocating anyone change their behavior patterns. I am simply venting about the fact that I am not happy about the conclusions I have been forced to assume.
My point was that even God came to the point where He had had enough. The story of Noah comes to mind as well, but I chose the Abraham story to point out how few men Abe could actually find... he couldn't even meet the quota.
I need to have a tooth pulled. Root canal failed... twice. Getting pretty edgy atm. Would hate to have you judge the whole of Believerdom based on my incredibly irritable mood. Will write back later.
Keep in mind... this is an internet forum, with a few vocal believers that maybe you don't like. Hardly worth deciding over the whole of beef from eating a Big Mac.
Argh! Pain. Going.
Hope all goes well with the tooth.
Before worrying too much about the OP, consider that sticking with the gospel is what offends her. If you believe people need Jesus to save them from hell you are worse than a Nazi prison guard manning the ovens at Auschwitz, in her book. How much compromise is okay?
I find myself utterly bewildered. I feel like I am trying to connect dots, only to find out that the dots are made of smoke. No one is making sense to me. I don't understand Emile's reaction. She seems so unlike herself... I don't understand Cat, or CG or anyone... I understand RA... He says "... and that's why your religion causes so many conflicts." and all of a sudden I am in Kansas again. But nothing else is making sense to me. It all seems like utter nonsense and I am missing something. Seems to me like the whole thing should have been dropped a thousand words ago and now... there are body parts every where. Why don't we all just stop feeding the monster and say "Good morning, how are you?" There are a lot more important things to talk about.
Perhaps it's a sign you are have been giving these things thought and not simply agreeing because some people are fellow Christians. Just something to keep in mind, not everyone here is okay or stable. I think you are as you've been consistent, but some of the others… are not worth my time. bBerean is okay as well, just mostly wrong.
She is being consistent, except with you. Now she is pulling back in line there too. The conversation about hell and Auschwitz had to be over a year ago, perhaps much longer.
Like I said, Im utterly confused.
In all truth, I believe Cat should have let this go pages ago and not b/c she wasn't in the right, but b/c she is called to defend her faith, not herself. I am disappointed that CG and Sir Dent fanned the flames that kept a ridiculous argument going... but what confuses me most right now is that I would be surprised at you.
We are SUPPOSED to disagree with them on these matters. We do not share the same faith. We do not share our beliefs or the same spirit... when it comes to doctrine and faith, we have NOTHING in common. So why are we picking up stones?
It's your kindness that leads us to repentance oh Lord. Knowing that you love us, no matter what we do... makes us want to love you too....
Remember that song/verse? I am 100% on board with speaking the truth, but what happened to loving them? I don't know... I don't know what's going on. Maybe I missed something. Sorry to all involved, believer and non believer alike. I have to go to a parent/teacher conf. Take care, all of you!
Hmmm. Now I'm confused. "That I would be surprised at you"? I didn't partake in the unusual conversation you reference above. I skimmed it as it transpired. I have been consistent from day one, (even Rad sees it), so not sure how I would surprise you.
If this is also directed at me I really don't get where your coming from. Any comments I made regarding the OP are spot on and references made are documentable. It's not throwing stones to clarify, so I am not sure what you are taking issue with. Please specify the errors you perceive that I have made so we can discuss them. I will be ready with apologies in hand for anyone to whom they are due, should the protest prove valid. I look forward to hearing from you after the tooth is resolved. Hope all goes well. (Want to put a winky here but know you've seen alot of them lately).
I'm not sure what she was getting at here as well. Scratches head.
For you, and anyone curious, bberean should not have to hunt down the conversation. We had it and I stand behind my words. It really does sadden my heart that we have seen the horrors of genocide and some would actually pray in hopes it may happen on a larger scale.
I'm reluctant to bring this up again as I don't want to highjack this thread, but she brought erroneous information to the table while attempting to convince us that she is a prophet, but only that she forgot to tell us the event would happen before she said it would. The erroneous information was disturbing to say the least. I don't particularly like being told I should get sexual harassment help from someone who give the entire world her bra size for no good reason other than to tell us how much attention she gets.
Hockey has started up again, good game the other day between the leafs and tabs. Tonight a great game, the leafs and pens. Ya baby.
My point, from my first post to now... is why don't you all just drop it?
I'm not taking sides. I'm not picking on any one person... I just think we all come to this specific forum to discuss religion. Are we all not mature enough to agree to disagree and move on to a less personal topic?
This, coming from a friend who was going to give me a Barbie doll to play with? Of course we are all, at times, immature. I'll be honest I only got involved in that thread after being accused of flaunting my 'big brain'. I have no idea why the accusation irritated me so badly. Probably because I have no idea where that bs came from. The ensuing lies on top of that lie kept me there.
Was *I going to give you a barbie? I will be honest. I have no memory. Ppl at the library are looking at me quite irritated b/c I am typing too fast. If only my brain moved as fast as my mouth/hands....
Thanks for the shout out!!!! Now for something completely different.
Mildred, the church gossip and self-appointed arbiter of the church's morals, kept sticking her nose in the other members' private lives. Church members were unappreciative of her activities, but feared her enough to maintain their silence.
She made a mistake, however, when she accused George, a new member, of being an alcoholic after she saw his pickup truck parked in front of the town's only bar one afternoon.
She commented to George and others that everyone seeing it there would know what he was doing.
George, a man of few words, stared at her for a moment and just walked away. He didn't explain, defend, or deny; he said nothing.
Later that evening, George quietly parked his pickup in front of Mildred's house... and left it there all night!
Lol!!! Nosy Mildred wasn't so "pure" afterall. Now we ALL know HER secret. Lol...
Get the full story... I get it..
Just LIKE Jesus to paint a vivid picture with a wonderfully put together story.
I HATE the dentist...
I too hate that you consider my and Sir Dent to be fanning flames on that silly issue.
You missed the bulk of conversation so I do understand. However, the spirit of the Lord is also furious at foolery. And he calls a lie where he sees it.
I feel that the thoughts expressed by Cat333 was unfairly represented when she was interpreted as only bragging about her bra size. It was MEAN. And it was ridiculously taunting. She was accused of being a drama queen who shouldn't have been hired in the first place, at her job if Emile were the judge.
It was all so malicious that the spirit within me was quickened to advocate.
Cat told of victory over her accusers and gave the glory to God. Emile and Rad pounced hard and spoke untruth after untruth about her intent as well as her actions.
I would do the same for you, as well as Emile.
Right is right. And wrong is simply wrong.
The wrong was called out and confronted. Jesus did that well.
Unfortunately, we cannot have peace in this valley. Yea and nay will forever disagree. Jesus didn't talk long to unbelievers. But for me to avoid it, I'd have to close my account. It is what it is. I cannot complain. But stand FIRMLY, I will.
Wrong will not be petted by my hand.
Thank you, Cgenaea!
Live and learn. Next time I give the testimony that God repeatedly said "They will fight against you but will not overcome you" I'll say only that all that He foretold and promised came to be. Of course then they'll say if I can't tell what it was about, then it didn't really happen. Stuck between a rock and a hard place, I guess. Oh well. Our God is mighty to save!
That's the whole problem in a nutshell. Those who make the most noise are the ones most in the dark. Like a den of vipers. They want something so bad they pretend they have it. Shout from the rooftops 'look at the me! Look at me!!' And they don't realize everyone sees what's truly going on.
You see what you want to see, Emile. Women who are harassed bringing it on themselves and deserving it and having no right to "complain" about it. It's somewhat surprising coming from you instead of RA, for example, but its your position and I guess you're sticking to it.
Your claims that God supports you is the problem. Your 'testimony'is an insult to the words religion, Christianity, spirituality or common decency.
Simply because you have a peanut gallery cheering this on you shouldn't think anyone believes there is some god supporting your comments. You are using the Bible to prop up some bizzare need that would be better discussed with a professional. You are embarrassing yourself.
My testimony in which God foretold that they would come against me but would not overcome me is an insult? Because I'm not the "type" you like? And God couldn't possibly like or love a type you don't?
God created us all differently and very clearly loves diversity. He didn't want you to be me or me to be you. That doesn't make one of us superior to the other, just different. God values and loves all, defends all those who trust in him and uplifts his faithful ones.
What happened to "We're done."?
Let's go back to your friend in the bar... what a crazy gal that was, huh?
She was no friend. Just a coworker.
I'm afraid when i said we were done it was simply done with responding to her comments concerning her body parts and her complaining that she was sexually harassed. I have no intention of sitting quietly listening to people claim a deity is supporting that.
We could all talk about my thumbs now. Maybe we could take a group vote.
What,.exactly, is interesting about your thumbs? I'm somewhat intrigued.
Perhaps if you put a smiley face on your thumbnail it would make a good avatar. You could do them both and have twins, but of course you would need help taking the pic then.
Oh. I hope that was a joke. I didn't really find humor in the extended need for someone to go on and on and on about their boobs. Not sure I'm up to listening to some one else fascinated with their body parts. But, if you feel compelled I won't stop you
A minister was walking to church one morning when he passed one of his members working in his garden. "Can't you hear those bells calling you to church?" asked the minister.
"Eh, what's that?" said the member.
"Can't you hear those bells calling you to church?"
"I'm afraid you'll have to speak a little louder!" said the member.
"CAN'T YOU HEAR THOSE BELLS CALLING YOU TO CHURCH?!" shouted the minister.
"I'm sorry," said the member, "I can't hear you because of those darned BELLS!"
Don't you see you can't let it go? I dare you to not bring it up again.
And enough about my thumbs, I don't think the men on this forum can take anymore.
Ok, Emile... how 'bout if I ask you a personal question... just to get us off this incredibly long and un-enjoyable track.
Did you believe in God as a child and if so, at what point in your life did you begin to doubt?
Geezopete. My last responses to cat avoided responding when she brought it up. I have no intention of speaking to her of it again, but I will point out the pathetic need to claim God is involved.
Yes I believed in God. My mom was religious and my dad supported her, although he was always a great spirit kind of believer.
I don't not believe in God I simply see it as a love that encompasses all of existence. Christian, Muslim and Jewish claims of a possessive nature are what iterates the poop out of me. No one owns God. I see these claims as wanting to harness the power for personal gain. As evidenced by recent 'testimony'.
That's interesting. You think of it as claiming Him as opposed to naming Him.
Were either of your parents bible believers or mostly just spiritual?
I don't support the term Bible believer. We didn't discuss the Bible. Everyone had one, but that wasn't the point. No one beat anyone over the head with their personal interpretation. Respect for his name always. But, the belief was to live up to the highest standards. Honesty, integrity, fair play and when in doubt of what to do put the needs of others first.
My parents didn't search scripture for reasons not to have to do what was right and they stood up for right even when it was unpopular. Unfortunately that put them on the fringe of acceptability within their church. So, I have a long history of watching the hypocrisy involved in those who mouth religion while living at odds with anything good in it.
So they lived by the code of the Bible, which is admirable.
So you are not adverse to the Bible, just what certain others have done with it?
Was prayer a part of the Sprite's home?
Prayer? Not overly. They said grace quietly and respectfully, but they rolled their eyes at open displays of piety. For obvious reasons.
And, yes. Personnel interpretations shoved around and called 'truth or you're headed for hell' are offensive.
I understand. I can see where you're coming from. It makes sense to me. Thanks for sharing that.
Silly of some to think I will walk on eggshells because I love and follow Jesus. He was never ashamed of reporting truth in its truest form with NO concern for the nay who might be offended. Right is right.
Not many like right...but that's not my business.
Right *is right. You are right.
No one is asking you to turn your back on Jesus or to silence the truth or be untrue to your Savior... but it is possible that the best thing for all of us is to let a subject go that has been pummeled within an inch of its life. I don't see that God was brought any glory thru that subject and that is the goal right?
I think God advocates for truth. Jesus was never concerned that the masses would not like him. He is brought glory via truth. And in truth...Emile and Rad were horrible to her and the Lord held Cat's hand through it and gave her comfort to combat the lies spoken of her. The puke that was spit about her is still spat and I will not sit silently either.
The world was pretty horrible to Jesus and he gave his life on the cross without uttering one complaint. You're not hearing me... I understand you want to live righteously and believe me, I am hardly one to preach, but in this case, I'm gonna get real with you... we are to speak the truth in love and we are to turn the other cheek. Why are you expecting non believers to act like Jesus? That's your job. Forgive, love or go somewhere and pray til you can come back. I shut down my account I was so mad, but it was better than matching insult for insult.
Come on, CG, surely you know this stuff? Take a breath my friend. I told you, I'm not advocating anyone's behavior, I'm just encouraging you to drop it. Emile has, Cat has... it's your turn.
Well, as I said. The den of vipers that has become the mouthpiece of Christianity is doing a grand job of nailing the coffin.
This is the other side of the coin. The one that says if someone says something that is found lacking, then surely there is no good to be found in any.
All cops are corrupt b/c of the Mike Brown shooting.
All whites are bigots b/c of slavery.
All men are ***** b/c Halle Berry's husband cheated on her.
All blondes are bimbos.
You don't believe there are no beautiful Christians out there do you? I've met many, world wide. I thought we both agreed on Katie Davis, the young American girl who adopted 14 kids in Africa.
Maybe you could lessen the scope and just say you don't like any of the Christian's on this forum... that way, only I'll be hurt.
I like you. But, your behavior patterns are not what are becoming perceived as typical Christian behavior. I think you are good, sometimes in spite of the words you support. I think you understand the spirit of the intent many of the outspoken are woefully blind to.
What typical Christian behavior were you hoping to see from me?
I don't want to see typical Christian behavior from anyone. I would prefer to see acceptance, honesty, and realistic conversations which don't include 'miraculous' claims which fly in the face of acceptance and honesty.
I see, so you think I've lied. That's funny 'cause one thing you can say about me is I've been painfully honest on this forum. Well, you can't make ppl believe you. You can only share your heart and be accepted or rejected for it. I wont hold it against you.
I've enjoyed getting to know you a little better tonight, and Sir Dent's jokes.
I'm glad for this group... even when it gets difficult.
You're completely misunderstood something. I'm not surewhat or how, but ok.
If it was the den of vipers comment it was the viperish remark you were politely responding to.
Sorry, there's a lot of room for misunderstanding, like I've been trying to say for a few threads now.
It's no big deal. I will tell you one more time, if you'd ever like to talk on the phone, I would love that, as it makes my walks more fun, but I know you're private so I'm not expecting you to accept. You should go out on a limb sometime though... get out of your comfort zone.
That's actually funny. We just signed a huge contract with an Italian firm. The rep is in the US for a while and Italy for a while. He was gungho on setting my computer up to video chat. I was so offended when he opened my email without permission, in order to set it up, that I was quite rude. I am a private person. It's just who I am. But, sure. Email me your phone number and maybe I'll come out of my shell one day to chat in person.
You keep mentioning honesty. If someone is speaking according to their true beliefs, they are being honest, regardless of what you perceive the truth to be. Why do you continually paint as liars those who purport to be speaking the truth as they see, believe and understand it? Are you convinced if it does not align with your views, or pass some test of yours that they must secretly know what you find offensive not to actually be true and are therefore not being honest? Not trying to argue, it just seems this is the case and you have hit it long and hard, so I am asking you to clarify. It is your point of contention in the OP heading, after all.
I don't see it as contentious. I simply see these behavior patterns at direct odds with the example of Jesus. So, yes. I do think on some level you would have to doubt it as truth. If your beliefs were truth the testimony of Jesus, on some levels, would be a lie.
If I ask for an example are we revisiting the two commandments out of context of scripture again, or would there be another example you could point to?
I don't understand how they were out of context. It's a simple statement.
I think, what you don't understand is we are all imperfect. We each know that about ourselves. Yet, we create mitigating circumstances which help us believe that in spite of our flaws we are OK, on a cosmic level. We are conflicted because we know we are the ones rationalizing. We know in spite of our rationalization the truth is we are not perfect and never can be. No matter how hard we try.
I simply think to love your neighbor as yourself is meant to help us understand that applies to all. We are all OK, on a cosmic level. We all struggle with the problem of knowing we are imperfect yet strive to believe that doesn't mean we are bad people.
Hell doctrine is simply refusal to allow oneself to give leeway for accepting mitigating circumstances for others. It's a defense mechanism because life isn't fair and we want it for ourselves. No matter the cost.
You can post verse after verse and there was a time in my life where I fell for that. I didn't know how it could be fair, but i trusted that I would understand when I got to heaven. I'd understand why those not going too lost out. Then, I began to believe that belief was important for my salvation, but others would be saved by other beliefs. That the Christian road was simply the one I was meant to walk.
But, I finally accepted that Christian dogma is at direct odds with Christ. In order to make some things fit you have to ignore others. You have to not only ignore others you have to move at odds to them. Christianity, as taught and practiced, is a lie. You have to find the spirit of the intent and live by it. Ignoring things at odds with the spirit of the intent. Try to abide by the purpose and not the letter.
So, post verses to prove me wrong. But if they fly in the face of the spirit of the intent, if they don't support the reason for the law then we are interpreting things for our own benefit.
Jesus said the law was given to serve man not enslave them. All humans. He didn't single any group out with that statement. And if you live by the spirit of the intent of the two commandments the law serves all of humanity.
A lot of Christians HATE the idea of anyone going to hell, so how then would belief in its existence for them be a defense mechanism because life isn't fair?
Jesus spoke about hell often. How do you interpret that?
He told you what two commandments are the greatest. Which two encompass all. It's your choice to ignore them. We always have a choice. Belief in hell for others, any others, is ignoring the second one. Will you abide by his commandment? Probably not. You will use the doctrine of hell as justification to ignore it. Abraham stood up for Lot. Would you stand up for someone else? If every 'Christian' stood up for what they perceived as an unbeliever everyone would be saved, according to your belief. That would be loving your neighbor as yourself.
Yes, those are the two. Jesus went to great lengths out of love for us, to warn us of hell and provide a remedy to avoid it. That is greater love than one man could ever have for his neighbor, yet you disregard His warnings, His reason for coming, and in so doing His remedy.
I don't ignore anything. You make assumptions, judgments and declare hell because.....you're made assumptions and judgments. Damn you are sooooo powerful. Who needs a God when we've got Christians?
You've ignored nearly all of scripture to create the Jesus of your choosing.
Do you not see that you have embarked on the same path the Israelites did? Made the same mistakes?
This sounds like a more promising approach. Please elaborate. How so? Scriptural support is appreciated.
Look at the Israelites. Ten perfectly good commandments. If they had thought about them, lived by them....would have needed another 600 and some odd commandments? They got buried in them. They had to follow the letter of the Mosaic laws. Mosaic law. Not God's law. It's like the Muslims. Somebody asked an imam if he passed gas while praying was that a sin. Seriously. The judgment was if there was no sound there was no sin. Does anyone think God seriously is listening in order to condemn us for such trivialities?
Jesus came along and boiled them down to two. If Jesus was God in the flesh then God's law was condensed. Why? Because humanity had reached a point of development that they could reasonably understand how the two encompassed the ten. If we truly thought about them and lived by them would we need any others? You guys search for law. You search for punishment for not abiding by law. Just as the Israelites did. They didn't allow the understanding of the individual to evolve and develop. They devolved by micro managing it. By setting minimum standards. No one had to think. All they had to do was shuffle along inside the parameters of mosaic law. And, on some levels this makes sense for the beginning. Slaves for hundreds of years. Most probably uneducated, backward thinking. They probably needed guidance. But, instead of guidance they slowly became enslaved by the letter of the law.
I'm not attempting to recreate the man. What I'm saying is that Christianity as taught is nothing more then it slowly devolving into the same mentality. There's no personal growth, no evolution of thought.
I'm not lying when I say if Jesus showed up today you guys wouldn't recognize him any more than the Jewish leaders recognized him then. You are all about the letter of the law. Without regard to the spirit.
I love and applaud the reasoning you applied, Emile. Bottom line is, if there was no hell Jesus would not have needed to come. He warned of hell. To ignore that is to ignore His purpose in coming. If all you want is a bit of philosophy, then take those nuggets and go, but you'll miss the gospel and the salvation it offers. Telling you that is not hate. I truly believe that gospel. No dishonesty in wishing you could see it. Thank you for taking the time for the above account, however, as I did enjoy it. I would encourage more exploration in God's word, even if you have been there a lot before. Always rewarding.
How does hell factor in? Did God invent it, specifically for the gospels? Any reason he wouldn't have shared this tidbit with the Jews prior to that point?
Are you sincerely interested in seeing what the scripture says about hell? In hearing what Jesus in particular taught, or would my efforts be wasted because regardless of whether it came from Jesus or not, you reject the idea out of hand? I really don't mind if there is any chance you are open to learning about it. I understand if not, and appreciate you saving me the effort if you are not open to hearing what God's word has to say though. Your call.
I appreciate the offer, and if you can first explain how hell just miraculously appeared, not having been touched on in the Old Testament I might be interested.
But, I'll be honest. If hell did exist and God honestly planned to send almost all of humanity there I'd probably opt to go....in protest of the unfairness. And, I'm pretty sure it would be my option, not a mandate.
Just u and Billy Joel huh? Only the good die young he says...
You have a lot of opinions, but what is the truth? I would really want to know that kind of stuff. Would you buy a new home, site unseen, no real info? Why would you make such a cavalier statement? It seems so unwise.
Right is right. Fair is fair. I'm not perfect. Neither is anyone else. We are all the same. The statement isn't cavalier. It's faith that right is right and fair is fair.
The way I see it only evil could come up with such a plan so heaven would be hell anyway.
You're making all the rules in this scenario. You are deciding what is fair, according to Emile. If you wield that much power, you should be on the supreme court at the very least.
I get what you're saying, but for those of us who believe the bible is the word of God... our goal is to understand His ways... what makes sense to you and say.. Wilderness, may not be right to God. If you are fully assured that you lack no knowledge, then what else can be said?
Beth why do you think Jesus came to walk among us? Why did he chose fishermen to walk with him? Why did he chose a tax collector? Why not philosophers? Why not learned men? Do you honestly believe what he came to share is that difficult to understand?
No I don't. He chose the fools of the world to confound the wise.
Throughout scripture, including the old testament, this has been His MO. Have to be away for a while. Goodnight if you all are gone by the time I return.
No. They were no fools. That's what some may say in order to ensure people don't question their interpretation. Would a loving God honestly seek to confound his children? Does that fall under the definition of 'God so loved the world'?
It's a reference for those who are so "wise" that they say there is no God... Or for those who say "To get to God, you must jump thru these hoops" when an innocent child climbs up on his lap. Jesus was telling us we complicate the msg. of salvation.
Yes. I agree. Even as a child he confounded the religious leaders with his understanding. Ocham's razor. The simplicity of God and his plan frustrates those who expect God to be mysterious and only discovered by intensive search and study.
Reading is not complicated. It's how I learn about anything... I would know only what ppl told me about Lincoln had I not read about him. The book is a gift. You can swallow it whole or take little bites at a time, but it is simple insight. I love learning about God.
Well, I've read the book. I got the message. It came through loud and clear. It just isn't the same one you got. And, thankfully, not the same some other posters are sharing.
I understand... It would be awesome to go thru the Bible together and see what each other sees.
Yes. Maybe. I suppose it could work for us. I always advise people against that. But, they are always first time readers. I'm always afraid someone will implant their opinion along the way and it will be seen as God's. I had a friend who started going to church and she'd come over and say 'the preacher says this means this, or that means that' she always got a blank face when I asked her what she thought. And I do believe that's why some stuff here seems so crazy. People are pushing thoughts others have them and they really haven't got a clue as to what they are saying.
Well... I don't have a problem sharing what I think... but respect would be important, eh?
One on one I'm very polite. Unless you're a Jehovah Witness. Then, I only start getting rude when you start disparaging Halloween. I love that holiday.
haha, I don't really celebrate Halloween, but I don't judge any one who does. Just a personal thing.
I did try to watch Supernatural if that helps... it was so freaking scary I could barely keep from fast forwarding thru 90% of it. I would be willing to watch it if it was just called Natural.
Is that the show with the two brothers? I think we watched that for a while. I don't know. One of the girls at work was in love with one of them. All the oohing and ahing she did on our commute kind of soured me to it, i think.
Yeah, the brothers was what I liked about it. One of them is from Gilmore Girls... that may be the one your friend liked. That was a great show.
Gilmore Girls? Do you like Jane Austin? It's got that kind of romantic feel throughout. I watched it with my older daughter... it was made for females. lol
Will you be celebrating Creator Day next Saturday on October 18?
Oh, I just saw you are talking to me. I hadn't heard of that celebration. I thought that's what Christmas was... not that He gets his due now a days. It's so commercialized.
I have to admit there is this "tone" that I don't like. It is a common tone.
It is "I love Jesus, so in your face, you unbelievers!" I really don't like that.
In my interactions with unbelievers, which is daily, I just form relationships. They see me fail and succeed; hurt and heal and they see that I go thru the same stuff that they do and they see my reactions to the situations. Most of all, I know they feel loved, and I hope that is what shows them who my Creator is, you know what I mean? Don't think I'm out there living some perfect example of Christ. I fail all the time, but I think when they feel loved, they are drawn to something more than me.
More like a challenge to the believer to set aside a day for God. Sometimes we are the biggest hurdle that keeps us from getting closer to God.
"Join with believers all across the world as they set one day aside to celebrate our wondrous God!
Whether spending a day in nature...
Or spending a day serving His creation...
(http://www.giaging.org/resources/gia-to … er-adults/)
Set Oct 18th to celebrate the magnificence of the one who created it all!
(IDK, something like that.)
Just another attack on anyone who does not believe.
What happened to following what the bible says and praying in private?
Are there no Atheistic rules? Rules about constantly insulting or discouraging others? Do you have no moral code to live by? What are you held accountable to when you find yourself with the choice of belittling another human being or holding your tongue?
I did not insult anyone. I was agreeing with you that that page is a negative attack on unbelievers.
I will always "belittle," attacks like that yes. I am morally obligated to stop that sort of attack.
I'll go through the bible, one chapter at a time with you, and we can respectfully share opinions. I think it would be fun, and my school coursework isn't so bad right now.
Yes. I would be more than willing to do that with you, although I'm sure we'll disagree alot, I'm sure we can both be respectful. I was gearing up to read it in its entirety again, and I'd like a fresh perspective.
For a different perspective (NT only), try
http://www.amazon.com/River-Life-Libera … er+of+life
He has also written two more, on Revelation and John's gospel. A very different take in both cases, but I found the linked one most interesting. Short, but interesting.
Okee doke. I am starting a new job Mon. and it's going to be a bit crazy for a while, a few nights a week in addition to normal hours, plus the kids and all their sports and pick ups and drop offs and projects, so be patient with me. Let's just be super chillax about it... not to sound overly cool, but some things come naturally. lol
Sounds good to me. I have school, work and family as well. You can reach me at firstname.lastname@example.org. I'll start where? First five chapters of Genesis? I'll write down my thoughts, and I'll go from there when I hear from you?
Hope it goes well with your job, Beth! And life calms a little for you!
Would be nice to see you two do it here on these forums.
The forums are not possible to control, and they're often the reverse of respectful. Otherwise I would consider it.
If you wish, I have created another forum, you're both free to sign up there and have that discussion, I could easily make it so that only you two are involved. Just a thought.
I might be interested in that-if only as an observer.
I can't put a link to the forum here, but I could on one of your hubs comments section if you like. That goes for anyone who would like to sign up there and have those types of discussions.
I appreciate it Ed. I deleted it. Don't be offended. I just would prefer that a thread about finding hope in Jesus not be linked to an Atheistic forum. Again, don't be offended.
I am curious why you are interested in this exchange between JM and I.
So far I have just written my thoughts on chap 1-5 of Gen. It is literally what I would do if I were doing a bible study with a fellow believer. I might have to start defending once JM begins her part, and tbh, I'm not looking forward to that, only b/c I have been so negligent in studying scripture for so long that it feels really good just to read it and glean from it.
I just sent you my first part. Let me make clear - I'm not intending for you to have to defend anything to me. I try to read the Bible all the way through every few years, because each time I do something else stands out. I'm asking questions, and pointing out things that don't necessarily make sense to me, but I'm not expecting (or necessarily wanting) you to provide all of the answers. From this, not only are we both reading the Bible again, but we're being able to observe a different perspective. I may make a hub out of my parts by book, I may not. I will not use your parts without permission, nor would I expect you to necessarily provide permission for it. I'm more interested on seeing your perspective where it differs from mine. I'm not doing this to start a fight. I'm doing it to learn a different perspective, and see what stands out to me on this journey through. Hopefully that's understandable.