Ways to Attack Atheism
A helping hand for those believers who need to attack atheism, but lack the ability to think of anything to say for themselves. I came across this in my travels. This is cut and pasted from CARM, the Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry:
"Dealing with atheism is actually easy to do. They don't have any evidence for their atheism and they can't logically prove there is no God. They can only attack the Bible and attack Christians' ideas of God. But, if you listen to them, you can soon find that their logic has many holes in it. It takes practice, but you can do it.
The following statements are for copying and pasting into chat rooms. Use them to see how atheists react. Use them to learn how to respond better to atheists. Please understand that these are not "stoppers." But, they can be challenging to atheists. Also, see how long it takes before they become condescending. Do not return their condescension. Instead, ask them to give rational reasons for their positions. In the process of interacting with them, learn how to argue with them better.
1. Ways to Attack Atheism
1. By asking questions.............."
The rest is here:
http://www.carm.org/apologetics/cut-and … on/atheism
I do actually have a serious question - why would anyone feel the need to do this? I noticed one of our believer friends doing this the other day - cutting and pasting some one else's words as an attack on other's lack of belief in their belief system.
This entire web page, and indeed the site seems almost entirely devoted to "defending the faith" against Wicca, Mormonism, Atheism etc. They do have an interesting new meaning of the word "logic" though.
Thoughts? Is this what christianity is all about?"If you say that atheism is simply lack of belief in a god, then my cat is an atheist the same as the tree outside and the sidewalk out front, since they also lack faith. Therefore, your definition is insufficient."
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Commie Atheists are not welcome in my house, so kitty needs to find a new home.
I must admit, that cut/paste thing annoyed me, too. Debate is healthy, and I welcome people with different opinions to mine, as long as they can back it up. There was no attempt to answer any reasonable points put forward, only to attack those who did not fit an extremely narrow and restrictive definition of 'Christian.'Oh yes - some of their "counter arguments" are laughable. I don't see the point in cutting and pasting an opinion in this way. It rather defeats the object of having a discussion in the first place. A bit like shouting someone down in a conversation in the real world. Odd.
Like i keep on saying - irrational beliefs make people behave irrationally.
Your definition of discussion does not necessarily correspond to theirs
You have this down pat
Bloody boring, though.
Junior school philosophical techniques
If you lack belief in God, then why do you go around attacking the idea of God? If you also lack belief in invisible pink unicorns, why don't you go around attacking that idea?
Too right, but copy/paste takes away all of the fun. How can anybody enjoy it?
marine - The fact that they encourage copying information, instead of developing an opinion, shows that free thought is low down on the list of priorities.
They don't seem to realise that it makes them look incredibly stupid
This might get long. Sorry.
I don't like to argue. I used to be a very confrontational person who wanted to get up in everybody's face, but then I was a Pagan and felt the need to defend my faith. I don't any more. I am a Christian, and I'm happy with that. You don't need to be because it's not about you -- it's about me.
I would prefer to see past personal belief structure to see the person. I don't personally believe that religion necessarily has anything to do with morality. Your being an atheist doesn't mean that you are going to go looting and pillaging, and my being a Christian doesn't mean that I am a pillar of virtue.
All too often "religious" folks give off the impression that they are (feel) superior to others, and that is really what I think is the root of the problem. I'm not better than any of you who are atheists -- just different. My values might be different from yours (and I could stand by mine being "better" the same as you could stand by yours being "better" and we would just never agree! ) or they might *not* be different than yours. My personal system of values and morals doesn't come from a religious background anyway.
I personally feel that those who feel the need to constantly defend their faith aren't very secure in it. I was going through this recently, I admit. There were several reasons for that insecurity that I don't want to talk about, but it's true that was feeling as though I had to have a way to "support" the reasons I believe as I do. Thank goodness I don't feel that way any more!
I highly doubt that you are actually bothered by this, Mark (other than to be disgusted by it), but I would honestly just ignore it. If somebody requires such a document to tell them what they believe in, they probably aren't worth taking the time to debate.Religions are based on the teachings of the most intelligent men this planet has seen.Their words defy time something most men cannot do.Trying to understand them takes great intelligence, the need to think for oneself.
The prophets on whom religions are based have understood the highest truths as to who we are ,where we have come from and why are we here .
The great, great master Guru Nanak " you need to be in a similar vibration to understand me or else you will call me a fool" .
Today is Buddha purnima, the full moon day when the great,great Buddha gained enlightenment, the pinnacle of human achievement. man becomes-god-man. Religions are guidelines set by great masters and I do understand them and spread the same knowledge as they did in today's times.
Arrogant and condescending because I understand, so all the enlightened ones are condescending and arrogant for you but not for everyone.
What do you think the meaning of this is "Guru Nanak- you need to be in a similar vibration to understand me or else you will call me a fool"- it means similar intelligence.Now you are demonstrating ignorance and stupidity. Clearly you have never read the bible. And if you did - you did not understand it. It warns against religion.
And the people that blindly follow them.
Case in point.
Go look at the page I linked to and see what I mean.
Self defense.I am a nice person and like being nice, I don't like being rude.People who know me say he doesn't harm anyone, he wants good for all.I think and write in English.
I understand the gurus words perfectly as the same is happening in my life.Our lives are very, very similar.
Mark my friend. It is different practicing religion and practicing faith, believe me. Acting faith is mentally very busy.
.
elinjo, do I spell it right? I must agree with your statement about religious people. I would want to apology for them. I hate religion. They criticize and feel superior... But I would like to ask you favor. Would you try to be Christian, I mean believer, not religious and do better as religious do? Then I will give you personally a compliment. When we criticize others we are the same as they are.
Mark (and his groupies) if you lack belief in God, then why do you go around attacking the idea of God? If you also lack belief in invisible pink unicorns, why don't you go around attacking that idea?
Source - http://www.carm.org/apologetics/cut-and … on/atheism
Mighty Mom has the right to believe in pink unicorns all she wants. Don't start attacking her now just cause it's an organized religion.
Haha Mark, awesome.
People of faith and people who lack it really should just join hands and go have a beer.
We're all here on this rock together, and if you don't learn to live with yourselves you're just not being a good human.
Peace,
G|MThe less we talk about each other's beliefs and the more we live to give and love the better off we all are...redemption is in a child's face, the laughter of family and friends...regardless of whether you feel you're going to a pearly gate or not.
G|M@ Specificity - I am having trouble understanding how a belief can be "objective" - surely by doing as you say you are setting them up to believe that your beliefs are "right" and other's are "fallacious"?
@ G|M - my point exactly
@ Aragon - you can discuss atheism with me anytimeNot really. I do not see how a belief in a higher power can be "objective." Your original statement was that you had made an "objective," decision.
I do teach them to have no respect for religion. I also encourage them to make their own decisions based on the information at hand. You have no information. Only subjective beliefs. Any history book will show you the true nature of religion and your own book and jesus tell you it is worthless and to be avoided.
I do not see how you can make an intelligent and informed decision about believing in something that does not exist. You have made an emotional decision only. Indoctrinated into a particular cult. That is all.
Don't even know what a "liberal art" is I'm afraid.
Or why you would need to "defend your faith."You can no more prove there is no God than I can materially prove there is. One of our views is objectively true. I think it is mine. There is only one way to find out.
The second half of that statement is a gross mischaracterization that sounds like you copied and pasted it out of some How To Attack Religion website. You say it over and over, but you can't back it up because that would require some study of the bible and a novice scholar would shoot you down in an instant.
As for the first half of that statement, it sounds like your children will be intolerant and immediately dismissive of anything a religious person has to say because you think we are mentally weaker than you. Remember, this all started when I wrote a post agreeing with you that the CARM website and their methodology are crap.
This explains a lot. The contemporary liberal arts are: history, philosophy, art, literature, foreign language, politics, mathematics, and science. At many universities, one can get a degree in liberal arts only, but parents can do a lot to make sure their kids get an excellent liberal arts education in high school.
Because it is constantly under attack. When a child has had proper faith formation along with a liberal arts education, they become well-rounded people able to defend their beliefs. Perhaps every religious person you know is thoughtlessly on autopilot, but such is not the case in my family, and such is not the kind of faith called for by the Church.
As an aside, you've said that you're sick of having religion pushed to you all the time. I don't know what the rest of your life is like, but here I see you jumping into the fray, inviting religious discussion, and then complaining about it.This is not the same as making an objective decision. Nor does it make either one of them objectively true. We could both be wrong. There may be a god, but you completely missed the point. This is semantics (as is the rest of your statement.)
So - does this mean that you are another one who feels there is no burden of proof?
Let's put it this way - I would have absolutely no need whatsoever to say "there is no god." If no one said "there is a god."
How do you think this conversation began?
Now explain to me how your personal belief is under attack. Or it could even be attacked? And why you need to "defend" it.
And "liberal arts" seems to be everything. Might have been easier to tell me which subject is not a liberal artNot just semantics. Take it one question at a time. If there is a God, then I'm right about that. That's true. Then there are other questions like: what is the nautre of God? (Monotheistic, polytheistic, monistic). As I asked the other questions and sought out their answers, I was drawn to the faith I have today.
As for the proof, that is something that I discuss with people individually, but I will not open it up to discussion, or rather ridicule, here. Suffice to say that along the way, the existence of God has been proved beyond a doubt in my life.
Indeed, if no one ever offered an opinion different from mine, I would never have a need to disagree with anyone and we could all hold hands and sing We Are the World.
Mark, you probably don't see your own words as an attack on my faith, so I don't know what your definition of attack is. I made a post agreeing with you about something, and you zeroed in on the one thing that you didn't agree with and here we are. You seem to be obsessed with attacking religion wherever you see it. While making it clear that you certainly have a right to speak your mind on any forum here, I am fascinated by your desire to piss on any discussion of religion. It seems that a person cannot try to seriously discuss their faith here without being ridiculed by you. And you love it! You, sir, are a Crusader for Atheism. Raise your kids to think as you do, they'll raise theirs the same, and in a couple of generations, they'll be able to spread atheism by the sword, or use government to crush relgious dissent (as in N. Korea or China or the USSR). Your disdain for religion will breed the very intolerance you claim religion breeds.
Fair enough. A better explanation is found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_arts. It's not just the subjects, but the balance between them that is important. For example, students in the USA get lots of math in high school, but it comes at the expense of philosophy and history. One can graduate from college here without taking a single history course. I was blessed enough to attend a private high school that was liberal arts intensive.It is semantics because the point I am making is that you have not made a subjective decision. You have made an objective decision based on something that you feel will be ridiculed as not being adequate proof. Which means it is something subjective.
Wouldn't that be nice. Instead we have this. Once again though, you have missed my point - intentionally or not, I am not sure.
The fact is that there is no objective proof of a god. I would not need to say "there is no god," if people did not keep saying there is. And people have been telling me there is my whole life.
So - I stand up against religion because I see it as irrational, evil, manipulative and responsible for several of the large problems the world faces.
Just like it tells me to in the bible.
I hear people tell me all the time that America is a "christian nation."
If that were true - instead of having christians standing outside family planning clinics with placards of photo of dead babies - they would be washing the feet of the girls after their abortion.
See the last point I made. Where do you think all the "competing" religions have come from?
And now you can tell the future also. What you fail to see is that it is the religion that starts the entire process. Without the irrational belief and political dogma associated with it - there would be no backlash.
And I don't think it is fair to say that I piss on any discussion about religion. I certainly have a view that is opposed to religion. Which I feel is as valid as anyone else's opinion.
I still fail to see how you can "defend" a faith.
Ah - thank you. Where I come from, we just call that an education.
Mark--
I figured. =P Was trying to be the only one not so obtuse for once.I was an atheist and I just didn't understand anything on spirituality.Today I do.
I had this book "Autobiography of a Yogi" by Paramhansa Yogananda in my house since I was a kid. I loved reading and would often get shouted at for reading late into the night and not sleeping.
I just couldn't go through the very first page of "Autobiography of a Yogi" though I tried a few times, just couldn't connect or understand what he was trying to say.Thanks bro
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