http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Banks-rep … 62554.html
Foreclosures topped 1 million in 2010 and the pace is expected to pick up in this quarter pushing home prices down an additional 5% and putting more borrowers under water.
Yes Obama and the Democrats are doing a bang up job on the recovery! Keep up the good work!
As mikelong and kirsten said, the melt down and foreclosures were in full swing before Obama arrived, making all that something he inherited from Bush. I don't see that Bush would have handled it any better, since it was under his watch that the economy actually collapsed.
So how's all this blame working for ya? Is it making you feel any better?
"So how's all this blame working for ya? Is it making you feel any better?"
You may need to answer your own question since you are blaming someone.
No blame, just fact. It was Bush's watch that it all happened. I think he truly did what he could to pull it back together. No blame. I just think it was much bigger than his capabilities or anyone else's, that's all.
"but why do you think Bush would do any better when it was he who was complicit with big banks who got us into this mess?"
Really? You're not blaming Bush?
Again, answer your own question.
Bush is no more to blame than anyone else in government. Period. Like I said, the headlines prove they are ALL in bed with the banks. Further, they are ALL in bed with oil companies. Who do you think fills the coffers of the campaigns, gives them perks, etc.?
I don't think Bush is any more to blame than most any other political figure. If they can be bought, or perked, we have a problem in Washington. Hence, the TEA PARTY as an angry answer. But it doesn't mean the tea party is the answer. They create as many problems as they try to create answers. IMO.
I'm not leaning left or right. As I have said many times before, I think they are both false religions.
Bush had lost some respect from both parties because he had been attempting more leftist ideas. Instead of the Left embracing him, they moved further left and pointed the finger at how "right" he was being. Ungrateful, and all while the right watched on, wondering at what he was doing? They were liberal ideas, and it is no surprise they failed.
See, the facts matter here, like that the line between left and right got moved further left as a result, and the country was hurt. None of that however, forces Obama's hand to continue to do the unbelievable harm he has done to this country. Trillions of Dollars later, people are still blaming Bush for acting to "middle and left", and really should be realizing that a more conservative view would have helped so much overall. Sad state of affairs, add to that an unthinking public that counts on what it hears... No surprise the huge mess. Republicans don't have all the answers either...but its a lot better for more people overall.
The facts about Obama's record so far, and even the first one hundred days speaks volumes. Its alarming at best. Watch out for all the "its Bush's fault" lines that will come. As if Bush was forcing Obama's hand, continually and ongoing throughout his term, just so far. That is outrageous and unbelievable thinking .
Bush ISN'T forcing anyone's hand, obviously, he mostly hiding.
The point is that what happened in the Bush era has to be cleaned up. Obama got elected to do that job, but why do you think Bush would do any better when it was he who was complicit with big banks who got us into this mess?
I don't think ANYONE is truly capable of stirring a true economic recovery until some one has the power to stand up to the banks. And so far, the headlines say that BOTH parties are in bed with them.
Words of wisdom there, both parties are in bed with the banks and the banks have proved themselves untrustworthy, simple really.
Bush would not have spent what Obama has, why would he? Its a crazy nearly insane amount of money. It was sarcasm, about forcing anyone's hand...of course he can't. The media knows that people will glom onto the idea of that "its Bush's fault, someone had to clean it up." I just wish they were more honest and share that Bush strayed from the more conservative ways of doing things, and the whole country and world seems to "buy the idea" that it is conservative values that hurt things. It simply and factually isn't the case. Why do you think he lost so much respect from his own party during those years? Were the Democrats thankful? It sure didn't pay to lean toward the middle to the left. Now we have a mess. Blame gaming, and a non thinking public allow the madness to continue. People that were anti Obama from the beginning were absolutely right, but they were called crazy. They are fully vindicated now and then some.
"People that were anti Obama from the beginning were absolutely right, but they were called crazy. They are fully vindicated now and then some."
Don't forget racist, they haven't seem to tone down the RHETORIC and VITRIOL either.
I am not in any agreement with people that are racist in any way shape or form. That isn't what I was referring to at all, to the point that it didn't even enter my mind. Thus your surprising comment. Those that have indicated racism and any vitriol, don't get my support, nor should they get anyone's. I was speaking of policy, philosophy and ideas, beliefs, etc. What we see playing out now.
I grew up in Southern Cal and forget sometimes that racism is still real to many. The racists and ones that spout vitriol, don't carry any weight with me. They were highlighted though, and made news.
So, by "anti obama", I mean anti for his policies and thinking, not because he is black. That comment surprises me, but fair I guess.
I didn't say you said it.
I said they called us racist for disagreeing with his policies.
So why did they re-elect Bush if they were unhappy with him? Not talking about you of course, I'm sure you didn't vote for him a second term because he went too far left.
Randy, the reason I bring up the leftist thinking of Bush, is that it guided many of his decisions. People didn't like Bush and what he did very often, but its good to consider the "whys" behind that. They may struggle to realize the reasons he went against his party.
As for the HUGE problem for voting for the lesser of the evils, yes I am a voter, and cringe when I vote very often. I believe that by not doing so, is in a sense a vote for the worse.
Surely, you aren't suggesting that with the available people to vote for, that republicans and conservatives SHOULDN'T have voted for BUSH?
That they did, in no way negates a thing I said. Its observably true, and on record.
It is a cause and effect we see. Poor choices as President and Party, means more problems for America. People thought the tea partiers were crazy, remember? Remember when they thought they were all conspiracy theorists, but now we see the absolute truth comes out. Facts support a side, and cannot be denied, yet we see denials and nasty behavior left and right as a result. It is all that is left for people that don't want to see or can't accept the truth perhaps. I am not trying to put down, as much as to say that people can see right through the rhetoric.
You can thank his predecessors....especially Mr. Bush....who pushed developers to build build build....and pushed the banks to lend lend lend....
Does no one remember Bush's "every American needs their own home" policy? Has everyone forgotten all the speeches? "We are going to put 5 million Americans into their own homes...so that they can live the American Dream..."
Has everyone forgotten this?
Bush builds the bubble, and jumps out of the way as it pops in Obama's face.....
Thinking caps on, America?
nope nope, its all Obama's fault, by the way who was that Bush person you spoke of? Doesn't he have a book out or something? Not sure, can't remember that far back
If Bush is at fault then why was the bubble a world wide problem?
It's true. He campaigned on increasing home ownership. I think it's also fair to say that he and McCain started to sound the alarm in 02. Barney Frank insisted Fannie and Freddie were fiscally sound. Fannie and Freddie were being persuaded by more than Bush. There were a lot of congressmen pushing this as well.
Obama inherited this problem. However the solution he provided has not worked. That is his problem.
No president should be blamed for the stupid housing market. The fact is that mortgage companies and banks continue to dig themselves new graves by continuing to do all that they can to milk america for as much money as they can. ( The same in foreign countries)
You can also blame them for duping Bush into believing they were going under, while they ran off and partied with the Billions of dollars in bailout money that Bush gave them. All this talk about giving better service to their customers, while stabbing them in the back and lining their executive pockets with bailout money through millions of dollars in executive bonuses.
Obama did the right thing by nailing them when he took office, a lot of them feared his wrath so much that they fired executives, and vowed to pay back all of the money that they stole from the American people. We are going to restructure our companies, translates into we are going to find all kinds of loopholes so that we don't have to pay back the money we owe.
The auto industry also received Bush money, and found a way to do business in a way that they pay back the government through going bankrupt, while shafting share holders and creditors in the process allowing themselves to make money and not pay back what they owed to anyone.
Do you think the average american home buyer could do all of that? hell no! Either pay your mortgage or get out. That's why people are reluctant to buy homes, they don't trust the banks and know that they are eventually going to get screwed. No bailouts for us.
"So how's all this blame working for ya? Is it making you feel any better?"<---Daniel Carter
"Watch out for all the "its Bush's fault" lines that will come. As if Bush was forcing Obama's hand, continually and ongoing throughout his term, just so far."<---Ocean
When the b.s. anti-Obama rhetoric seen in threads like this is debunked, it is interesting how, as in Ocean's comment, they have to keep running away from the truth...
Keep blaming the housing crisis and its costs on Obama people..and keep inadvertantly belittling your own intelligence....
If this was a lithmus test for competence....several here would have already failed....
When a President becomes the corporate tool....when it is the podium of high office that drives the economic activity...then the President is responsible....
Look at the video I posted....look at the slogan on the wall behind Bush....is he a President or a marketing agent?
It was speeches like this that drove the political support for what would become the housing crisis.... Without this free, government subsidized P.R. (corporate socialism?) then perhaps we never would have ended up in this mess.....
Still waiting for your answer.
If Bush is to blame then why was this a world wide problem?
It's a worldwide problem because half of the worlds big banks are American corporations, British, or European, and most are tied together in various ways, such as corporate mergers, and, some are even part of a single large corporation that not many people know about.
Just like the problem with the oil companies after 911. While they spread gloom and doom, and the GP buys it, there was always someone in the background making billions. You just never hear about it, because that is the kind of stuff that is kept behind closed doors, until someone spills the beans. Like BP making 4 billion dollars a quarter before the disaster in the gulf, and they raised the price of gas to make up for that as well.
So believe only half of what you hear.
Hold up... my biggest gripe that cannot be denied is that Obama has spent a crazy amount of money while in office. That is poor leadership when you are given an honorable office over a group of people such as American's. Do you deny this or disagree?
I find that it is absolutely true, that people ignore that one fact alone, and still blame Bush who DIDN'T force Obama's hand to do what he has done. He couldn't have, and to suggest so is poor thinking in my opinion, for what seems very obvious reasons.
Also, you can criticize what is being done on behalf of American's and their future generations by Obama and the Democrats, and NOT to be ignoring that Bush had a lot of faults and did some not so great things. His own party was not happy with him often. There is a cause and effect reason for that. I am saying that the deeper philosophies driving all these actions ought to be taken into consideration. There are good ideas that help people overall, and bad ideas that hurt people overall. I am in severe disagreement with Obama's ideas, AND also disagreed with a LOT that Bush did. Obama is in office now, its not to ignore Bush. The blaming looks petty..its old news.
No blame, just fact. It was Bush's watch that it all happened. I think he truly did what he could to pull it back together. No blame. I just think it was much bigger than his capabilities or anyone else's, that's all.
I think we are talking now, about the current president however, and the current choices being made. No one disagrees that Bush made some bad decisions. This should in no way be an excuse for ANOTHER'S bad decisions that hurts people.
I like a party that makes people take responsibility, including presidents.
I don't like it when people make poor decisions, and then blame those decisions on another when it was their OWN choice.
This housing crisis is an American problem... If other nations, like Britain, also created their own bubbles...that is another story... I would then seek to find correlation between these events.... I have not done all the research, so I cannot comment further...
The youtube video I posted is an example of how Americans were set up for the fall... Being that international lenders were involved with our housing debacles, it makes sense that there would be international ramifications to the collapse... And, since America sets many of the trends....it Americans are building building building, so to were many others... Money was flowing, and profits were to be made...
The predatory practices of lenders...empowered and enriched by government funding, is another, though related, issue...
When bubbles pop, bad things happen....
"This housing crisis is an American problem... If other nations, like Britain, also created their own bubbles...that is another story..."
No, its the same story.
Thinking cap indeed.
Countries like Britain where effected because their banks were in bed with American banks, when the bad loan packages bombed out it directly effected banks around to work because they bought the dodgy loan packages. This all started during the Bush era and has continued through the Obama term of office, who knows how much longer it will take to reestablish equilibrium? I know that a decade for recovery is not unheard of before, could be that we are in for what they call here in Britain an 'age of austerity' for a little while yet.
Excuse me! These problems did NOT start with Bush!
This started with Clinton!
But that isn't what this thread is about. This thread is about how Obama and the dems have FAILED to fix it!
Actually, Reaganomics was one of the root ideas that lead to Clinton's actions. Again, both parties are to blame, part because they couldn't predict the actions (and consequences) of the future. Again, blame is not really answer, nor does it solve present problems. Some type of unity which would include agreeing not to continue to blame, spew vitriol and other useless things, would be a helpful start to creating a cooperative, problem solving atmosphere.
LOL! That's the only way the left can survive!!! Deny, deny, deny, and lie! Never ever take responsibility for their actions! No, no, no!
Hmmmm, talking to a wall is not a good idea. I think I'm done here.
You were done after your denial that you blamed Bush.
Awwww I sorrie...I dint mean to hurt your feelins!
Sure if we want to assign blame fairly of course both parties would own a degree of culpability, but so would the American people for allowing government to grow beyond it's intended bounds and to support regulation instead of speaking out against it.
The words you wrote about both parties and financial institutions is the truth and nothing but the truth.
For those who gripe about the money that has been spent....what would you have done?
I am tired of hearing complaints with nothing to back it up...
So Obama-haters....pretend that you were sworn in instead of Obama.....with what was being faced economically in this nation, what would you have done differently?
List what you think Obama did wrong, and show how you have the knowledge to do "right"....
I'll be watching attentively for these responses...
What would America under Jim.....or America under Ocean look like?
Please be specific......
I like your one-liner responses Jim....how about some citations to back yourself up...
As for the "pettiness" of "blaming Bush"...this began with the ridiculous and blatant pettiness of the original thread poster....
Why not criticize this person?
Sorry if I point to reality over Obama-bashing....
I voted for Bush, so I recognize my own mistakes.... If the Republicans were opposed to him, why did his policies regarding home ownership move along with flying colors? Where was the criticism then?
"I like your one-liner responses Jim....how about some citations to back yourself up..."
If I were concerned what you thought then I might do just that. But you were the one challenging us to use our thinking caps, put yours on and show me how the housing bubble was created by Bush and how that effected the rest of the world.
The housing bubble was created by Bush supporters in the banking and financial Institutions who manipulate the poor and uneducated to take advantage of goverment programs to help the poor. Goverment Programs to educate the poor and uneducate are being manipulated today and for years by Bush supporters creation of on-line universities. That will be the next bubble to burst.
"So Obama-haters....pretend that you were sworn in instead of Obama.....with what was being faced economically in this nation, what would you have done differently?"
First, I don't hate Obama. What would I do differently? I would spend a few trillion less dollars, and at least a few less multi billions of dollars, or at the very least a few less MILLIONS of dollars that is now put upon the tax payers and their children for generations to come.
I would have thought more about how that looks to the rest of the world and the other countries that are capitalizing on such weakness and poor management. You know, that other super powers that are thinking, "Are American's really this stupid?" Sorry, its scary stuff though. So that is where I would have started to do something differently.
That is a very vague response....it is easy to say "I would spend less"....but what would you have not spent on?
Now, for myself, I would propose some ideas I have found in "“A Bailout for the People: Dividend Economics and the Basic Income Guarantee.”
Spending itself is not the problem....
As for Jim.....oh brother.... For all you have to say, you say so little of any worth... Are your "comebacks" supposed to bring about confidence?
No "Jim for President" campaigns any time soon....
If anyone spent like he has in life, they would be on the street and making poor decisions personally and for their family. Its not vague..its a principle in life that we all live like is true. If you spend more than you have, you become indebted.
Doing some simple research on just how much Obama has spent in comparison to other presidents will help you to know where I am coming from. It doesn't matter what he spent it on, he has been incredibly careless and its hurtful and America doesn't want it. America voted in the last elections like what I am saying is true as well.
"As for Jim.....oh brother.... For all you have to say, you say so little of any worth...
Thank you, if you feel that way why do you keep engaging me?
Are your "comebacks" supposed to bring about confidence?
No, but I feel confident you can't keep from responding to this.
LOL! It's oh so predictable! Of course the left blames Bush.... STIL! Obama is now in his 3rd year, he's passed every bit of legislation he said was necessary to turn the economy around, and instead we continue to sink into the morass! Obama is making 10% unemployment the NORM! Without JOBS there will NEVER be a turnaround in the housing market! And we continue to bleed JOBS! And still Obama spends, and spends, and spends and blames Bush and the right for his woes!
Point is, BOTH are to blame. According to you, only the left is to blame. There are two sides, but not according to you. To you only the left is at fault. I repeat, BOTH were at fault, and continue to be at fault.
Obama and the ideas and people that drive what he chooses currently are the ones doing ongoing, current choosing. No one is denying the past. I am concerned what is happening today, aren't you?
I watched the news daily when it all started, more cause I work outdoors and need to know the weather but I did worry about my bank, for obvious reasons. I was not really up to spending a few days in a queue to get my money out! Man the Brits are weird! They all queued up nice as you please, calm and civilized, telling the news cameras about the lifetime savings that they were worried might be lost for good. Simply outstanding, reminded me of a carry on film, carry on during the financial collapse maybe
Thanks Jim for showing your lack of substance....
It is easy to point fingers....but if you have some actual information that can change views, why would you hide it?
If you have a read idea I am all ears.... I would love to hear some alternatives to what Obama has done economically up to this point.... I would really appreciate an actual answer...
If you have nothing of substance to spread, then all you are doing is blowing partisan hot air....which does nothing of use...
"It is easy to point fingers....but if you have some actual information that can change views, why would you hide it?"
Since it is you pointing fingers I guess you would know.
Nice try at deflection though.
The information isn't hidden, use your fingers for more than blame and do the required research.
Thanks for showing nothing....
Again...my response was based off the orginal poster...not to you...
You responded to my comments with criticism....I then responded to you, asking for substance.
Since you have nothing to write I can venture to guess that you have nothing to say except "bad Obama"...
If I have information of importance I pass it on.... If there is something that I think I could have done better, I would share it...
If you can't, that is on you... It just makes any other comments you make worth even less....
It is easy to bad-mouth....but difficult to come up with a plan of your own....
Jim, can you tell me what our nation would look like today if the Federal government had not authorized the spending you criticize?
Share a link.... I do it all the time..
"If I have information of importance I pass it on...."
What is important to you is blaming Bush, you have repeatedly done it and then try and deflect your obvious hatred off on to others.
Please feel free to pass along more of your brilliance and I will feel free to ignore it.
"It is easy to bad-mouth....but difficult to come up with a plan of your own...."
Again, something you know a lot about.
"Jim, can you tell me what our nation would look like today if the Federal government had not authorized the spending you criticize?"
I could but I rank you in the same category as Doug Hughes and lovemychris, not worth my time.
Fact is Bush had tried from 2001 to reform Fannie and Freddie and the dems wouldn't let him!
http://www.mcculloughsite.net/stingray/ … -refor.php
But let's not let the facts get in the way!
Would McCain, as president in 2000, done any differently?
For some reason I think it would instead be his figure gracing that youtube clip I put up in my first posting...
There are differing opinions on what could have or would have happened if, for example, GM had been allowed to go Chapter 11....
I am not yet convinced that Obama made the wrong decision on this count...
Concerning Freddie Mac and such, I also weigh the fact that prejudicial behavior by lenders, like redlining (if you don't know what that means, please look it up), had worked to keep certain populations of Americans in poverty... The Community Reinvestment Act and ACORN were set in place to offset, regulate, the racist actions of lenders.... I agree that more should have been done to make sure F.M. and S.M. were doing their jobs.
But, if there was so much information about the problems with these organizations, how is Bush's executive branch driven marketing strategy justified?
In this post, which another hubber attached to this thread earlier (http://www.mcculloughsite.net/stingray/ … -refor.php)..
With the ability to hold up legislation as has been witnessed over the past two years amid a minority status, why was the GOP unable to "do the right thing" when they held majorities in both houses of Congress?
Surely the Republicans could have done something.... I am researching more on the specific actions/inactions that took place 2000-2003/4 concerning housing and S.M/F.M.
They could have at least told Bush to shut up, and to stop promoting a flawed campaign promoting home ownership, and could have acted to keep these lenders from getting increased amounts of funding and control... Right?
If anyone has sources of interest I am definetly interested in finding out more...
The point of my original comment, however, I think has been lost.
I recognize, along with everyone else, that there are serious problems to address....
The original poster tried to paint the ongoing housing crisis as Obama's fault, and I sought to show that such scapegoating doesn't fly... Is there more to the story? Absolutely...
Am I defending all of Obama's policies? No... I am not even aware or knowledgeable enough to talk about all of these issues..
Yet, I will not throw the book at a guy who's been in office for two years, plus or minus a few months, when it took at least a decade, if not a bit more, to cause the problem to begin with...
If we want serious solutions, the partisan divide must be transcended....to Obama-bash is pointless...and the solutions we are seeking will take time to find and implement, I am sure with failure along the way....
Jim, I am hoping that inside of just snippets of verbal violence you can share insight...and sources... If you have an viewpoint, why not try to convince others that you are right with substance as opposed to using epithets and downgrading remarks?
Finally, I do know, however, that Obama at least got one thing right.....he opposed the wars that we are now waging...which have cost us over 1 trillion dollars (with how much waste?)....When the final costs are tallied (including the price of veteran benefits and other rehabilitation..not to mention paying for the ill-effects of war..like homelessness, drug abuse and criminal activity) I shudder to think what the total will look like....
If Obama had been president in 2000, at least there was the potential that war could be avoided....that other means of dealing with international terrorism could be created...
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