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More Good News !

  1. Mark Knowles profile image60
    Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago

    http://markpknowles.com/wp-content/uploads/mini_chicago_ad_pretty_version.png

    You god botherers will be pleased to know that rather than annoying people by knocking on their door at 7 in the morning, the Chicago atheists prefer to have a lie in and spread the love by advertising on buses instead.

    If you would like to donate to this worthy cause, here is their website:

    http://inatheistbus.org/

    (Bloomington, Indiana, May 7, 2009) The Indiana Atheist Bus Campaign (INABC) recently filed a suit against the Bloomington Public Transportation Corporation (BPTC) for refusing to run a bus advertisement that states “You Can Be Good Without God.” The Indiana Atheist Bus Campaign’s slogan was rejected by the BPTC because it was deemed “controversial,” in violation of company policy. The Indiana Atheist Bus Campaign in their suit argued that the BPTC’s policy and the refusal of their ad was a violation of INABC’s First and Fourteenth Amendment rights.

    “Bloomington Transit, which is a municipal bus service, should embrace our nation’s cherished tradition of freedom of ideas and revise its policy of censorship,” said Roy Speckhardt, executive director of the American Humanist Association, the organization that designed the ad and has been working with the Indiana Atheist Bus Campaign. “The fact that people can be good without belief in a god is simply a statement of fact. Our humanist and atheist communities are made up of people who are peaceful, law-abiding and good Samaritans. They’re true to their families and true to their principles--just like members of religious communities."

    The suit argues that BPTC’s policy, which allows it to refuse any advertisement which it deems to be a “statement of position in support of or in opposition to controversial issues,” gives the BPTC unbridled discretion to censor unpopular opinions. The policy against "controversial" advertisements is unconstitutionally vague, unreasonable and overbroad, and thus should be enjoined, INABC argues. “We made every reasonable effort to come to a solution with the transit company by means of discussions with the city attorney, but we were still rebuffed,” said Charlie Sitzes, an INABC spokesperson.

    The intent of the Indiana Atheist Bus Campaign’s ad is to let like-minded people know they are not alone and that there are others with whom they can join together. “It isn’t an attack on religion but an affirmation of a different point of view,” Sitzes added. “The only way a person could remotely construe the message as harmful and too controversial even to be seen is if it conflicts with a pre-conceived and false belief that atheism is wicked and immoral. It’s too bad that such prejudice is still so prevalent in America."

    The Indiana Atheist Bus Campaign is one of a series of prominent nontheistic bus ad campaigns around the world. The American Humanist Association ran a bus ad in Washington, DC, that read “Why Believe in a God? Just be Good for Goodness’ Sake,” and similar bus ads have gone up in Britain, Canada and Spain. But there have been two campaigns, in Australia and Italy, that met the same resistance Indiana is encountering.

    The attorneys for the plaintiff are Kenneth Falk of the ACLU of Indiana and cooperating attorney Paul Newman of Bloomington. The suit, Indiana Atheist Bus Campaign v. Bloomington Public Transportation Corporation, was filed in federal court in the Indianapolis Division of the United States District Court.

    A PDF of the complaint can be found online at:

    http://www.americanhumanist.org/system/ … plaint.pdf

    1. Andrew0208 profile image60
      Andrew0208posted 8 years ago in reply to this

      The rantings of atheism shows how controversial they could be. Too many arguements by atheism have made them a question mark(?) Mark, how do you see the atheist slogan as related to this; "Mr Mark Knowles is a wise woman" May be it could be argued out by the atheists in the house if you're a wise woman or man. Is it that not really funny.

      1. Mark Knowles profile image60
        Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Why do you hate truth and honesty so much Andrew? I didn't really understand your point either.

        1. Andrew0208 profile image60
          Andrew0208posted 8 years ago in reply to this

          What truth and honesty do i hate, tell me Mark? Is it that atheism always turn truth upside down with their beautiful lies and sentiments. Why are they worried about the Scriptures they do not believe but enjoy misquoting it? That simply means calling a man a woman, calling a white color black color which equals to lies and gross dishonesty.

          1. Mark Knowles profile image60
            Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

            The truth that man created god - not the other way around.

            1. Andrew0208 profile image60
              Andrew0208posted 8 years ago in reply to this

              I thought God never existed in your imagination and life here on earth, how come in the beginning the man atheist created Nil.

              Beautiful lies of atheism!

            2. My Inner Jew profile image84
              My Inner Jewposted 8 years ago in reply to this

              How can man create god when we have so much trouble creating and getting rid of human life?  The chicken defintily came before the egg and god definitely came before the human...
              or do paintings also have no artist mr. mark smile

              1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                Easy - you just say the magic word and have an easy answer to the unanswerable. There is no god. It is a figment of your imagination that is trying desperately to give some meaning to your life and prove that you are more important than you are.

                Paintings? What sort of a lame argument is that? A painting has a painter therefore there must be a god? Surely you can do better than that?

                1. My Inner Jew profile image84
                  My Inner Jewposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                  haha the paintings thing wasn't really my argument it was my humor.
                  Ok i agree that the name God is what we have given to describe what we truly do not understand and fathom...lets put away his name for a moment.
                  Do you think that humans control the mysteries of the universe?  Simple things such as rain, the way all things in a flower come together to work perfectly, how the insides of the human body work to keep a man living...and so on and so forth

                  1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                    Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                    No. And because we think we have to control everything - we have invented an invisible super being that does.

                    And now we are fighting over who has the best invisible super being that has said that our tribe is the mightiest tribe.

                    Once you let go of your ego that says you have to control everything - it is really easy to see that there is no super being controlling everything.

                    And once you do that you can see the invisible super being for what it really is. A construct to control the ignorant and scared.

                    Let's face it - it is a really easy answer. It requires no proof. It has hidden more atrocities than I can think about and people are killing each other over it to this day.

                    Despite the fact that it makes no sense - most people seem to accept this easy answer because then they do not need to think about what happens after they die. Easy - they are going to a better place and all the people who did not do what they did are going to a bad place. lol

                    Once you look at the marvelous complexity of nature - and understand the evolutionary process, it is clear as a bell that there is no person controlling things. No one is pushing a button to make it rain. No one is controlling how a flower comes to be.

                    Why is it so important to you to think that there is? Does it frighten you to think that these things developed naturally and there is no one controlling things for you?

            3. Vladimir Uhri profile image60
              Vladimir Uhriposted 8 years ago in reply to this

              Mark, it is not true man created God. Man is unable to create even order from the mess we are in.

              1. Eng.M profile image75
                Eng.Mposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                I think he means the idea of God

                1. Vladimir Uhri profile image60
                  Vladimir Uhriposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                  Man created religion, not God.
                  My friend Mark, this sentence I heard in Soviet Union before 1950. You are quoting Marxists.

                  1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                    Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                    No sweetheart - I am stating a fact.

            4. LondonGirl profile image89
              LondonGirlposted 8 years ago in reply to this

              I'm in an Oscar Wilde mood today, "I think that God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability."

              1. mohitmisra profile image60
                mohitmisraposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                In what way has he overestimated himself?

                1. Make  Money profile image74
                  Make Moneyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                  I think Wilde was meaning overestimated man's ability. smile

                  1. mohitmisra profile image60
                    mohitmisraposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                    If he had any sense wink

                    "Your glory is such,
                    Man asks for too much." smile

    2. LondonGirl profile image89
      LondonGirlposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      What a very parochial view - surely the British ones were first?

  2. webismine profile image60
    webismineposted 8 years ago

    Good one lol

  3. frogdropping profile image85
    frogdroppingposted 8 years ago

    Mr Knowles I was horribly alarmed for a moment. Your name, attached to a post in the Religion forum - and the OP ... neutral


    *wipes brow* Phew - you're just handing out some unsolicitated guidance ... big_smile

    1. Mark Knowles profile image60
      Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Unsolicited guidance. I like that. big_smile

  4. earnestshub profile image86
    earnestshubposted 8 years ago

    More of the same needed.

  5. aka-dj profile image78
    aka-djposted 8 years ago

    I think what you really mean is;
    "In the beginning God created man. There-after man created Religion".
    I don't care if you argue against religion, (don't care for it much myself), but pitting yourself against God ? ? ? I'll let Him handle that Himself. cool

    1. Mark Knowles profile image60
      Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      No dj, that is not what I meant. I said what I meant.

      1. aka-dj profile image78
        aka-djposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        OK.
        So,if there is no God, then it's man that kills man. So your constant harping on religion being the cause of all our current and past woes is null and void!
        Which one are you really agains? God, or religion? hmm

        1. Mark Knowles profile image60
          Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          There is no such thing as god dj - so I cannot be "against" something that does not exist can I?

          I was just sharing the good news that atheists have decided not to go the god-pusher's route of knocking on your door - except John Saffran who went to Salt Lake City to spread the word:

          http://hubpages.com/hub/Mormons-are-not … Christians

          big_smile

          1. Andrew0208 profile image60
            Andrew0208posted 8 years ago in reply to this

            Funny! You really like arguements. A typical life of an atheist

            1. Mark Knowles profile image60
              Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

              Andrew - I was just sharing. You started this argument. And are continuing it. Typical life of a christian you must have meant to say.

              1. Andrew0208 profile image60
                Andrew0208posted 8 years ago in reply to this

                hahaha

          2. aka-dj profile image78
            aka-djposted 8 years ago in reply to this

            You (obviously) haven't met Him. Here's an invitation for you.
            http://hubpages.com/hub/meet-God

            1. Mark Knowles profile image60
              Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

              lol

              Very nice dj. People who don't believe in god are wrong, ignorant and arrogant. And if I would just change my opinion to be the same as yours I would see I am wrong. Very persuasive. wink

              1. aka-dj profile image78
                aka-djposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                Please DON'T be like me. Don't even have my opinions. Just meet Him! That was the invitation.

                1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                  Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                  dj - I have met what I think you guys call god. Bring you to your knees, vibrations emanating from your core that connect to everything else and fill you with a strong sense of belonging sort of thing. Very powerful - so powerful in fact that I have to consciously break the connection or I would spend all my time contemplating it and in fact when I am strongly connected, I can barely function in the real world.

                  And it is not a separate entity, it doesn't have a personality, it most certainly does not have a set of rules written in a book, and definitely did not send it's only son to save us from the sin we are born into.

                  And it most certainly does not need a bunch of religionists pushing their particular version of what they think it told them - which invariably happens to be what they already thought anyway.  wink

                  You are sadly mistaken dj. There is no personal god. I read your hub and you seem to be missing a massive point - without this personal god you have concocted - there would be no religion. It is all in your head and your book is a religionist book written by religionists.

                  And to be perfectly frank - you do not think evolution happens despite the massive amount of evidence in front of you.

                  How am I supposed to take anything else you say seriously?

                  1. Sufidreamer profile image80
                    Sufidreamerposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                    Pretty much my view on things - I have been there, too smile

                  2. Lady Guinevere profile image60
                    Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                    I have been where Mark has been too.  I have made a testimony of that here on Hubpages as well. 

                    Jesus and God are NOT who the religions say they are--period.  It was Paul(A Man, A Roman Soldier) who said that Jesus would come *IF* more people were saved.  Jesus nor God says these things. Now go research Paul and who he really was and how he just wanted control because he was brought up that way.  Just as you religionist have been brought up like that it is very difficlut -- But NOT impossible--to see things differently then what you have been taught to think.  Jesus nor God are judgmental..........man is very much that and more.

              2. nicomp profile image59
                nicompposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                Oh, a banner on the side of a bus is supposed to be persuasive?

                1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                  Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                  lol

                  Apparently you guys think so. Judging from the amount of banners on buses you have paid for. But it does seem to upset you when others do it. http://markpknowles.com/wp-content/uploads/mini_chicago_ad_pretty_version.png
                  Why is that exactly?

    2. Andrew0208 profile image60
      Andrew0208posted 8 years ago in reply to this

      You're right, man created religion. Religion is not God and God is not religion. I wonder why anyone will be so worried about what he/she do not believe and cared about in the name of self?

  6. Lady Guinevere profile image60
    Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago

    Isn't ATHEISM just against Doctrine of Chruch ( sorry I keep having this slip that church is a chruch smile )and not anything else?  So why is Doctrine so much holier than anything else?  Who wrote Doctrine.............man.

  7. profile image0
    pgrundyposted 8 years ago

    Sorry if I'm interrupting a good (or bad) argument. I just wanted to say that I grew up in South Bend, Indiana, and there have been these obnoxious billboards all over town for years--these billboards that are just a black background and a white lettered quote from God, except God is always saying something really dick-ish, something that isn't in scripture or anywhere, it's just rude and unpleasant and mildly threatening.

    Anyway, I don't see why atheists can't have equal time.

    If God can put big "I'm a dick" billboards all over Indiana to threaten nonbelievers into compliance, why can't atheists put billboards on buses that feature purdy flowers? smile

    1. profile image0
      jacobt2posted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Can you give an example of what some billboards said? And God did not put up those billboards, humans did.

      1. Lady Guinevere profile image60
        Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        ----or they could be God Inspired!  Just like the Bible....hmmmmm?

        1. profile image0
          jacobt2posted 8 years ago in reply to this

          What's wrong with being God inspired?

          1. Jewels profile image82
            Jewelsposted 8 years ago in reply to this

            Perhaps God inspired the atheists to balance the score?  Make the game even? Whatcha think?

          2. Lady Guinevere profile image60
            Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago in reply to this

            Absolutely nothing at all.

  8. profile image0
    Leta Sposted 8 years ago

    Yeah, Pam, I guess we are just supposed to ignore anything obnoxious--as it's our own problem, wink--just like homeless people.

    That's my smart-butt comment for the day. lol  Now off to corporate land.

    1. profile image0
      pgrundyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      LOL! Be excellent Lita. Do something inappropriate when you get there. smile

  9. fierycj profile image84
    fierycjposted 8 years ago

    Here's what I think, and this goes especially to my man, aka dj. Don't waste too much time trying to convince an atheist that God exists. Chances are you won't succeed. I would say 10 out of 10. Whats more, it almost always turns into something unpleasant. Almost always. And you help not achieving anything the process. Lastly, if God doesn't exist, well happy for them. But if he does (which I'm darn well sure he does),then who do you think we'll have the last laugh when everyone stands in front of this majestic throne, in this tabernacle able to room billions of people, and angels countless...who do you think will have the last laugh? I just think its all well and good for atheists now. Its the perfect time for them to thrive. Its the New Age. Its the Age of Aquarius. Greetings.

  10. profile image0
    pgrundyposted 8 years ago

    I think Mark is making a positive contribution by focusing on it. I would but I have not the patience or the energy.

    The religious right is a real threat to peace and liberty right now. If they would shut up and mind their own business I'll bet Mark would too.

  11. fierycj profile image84
    fierycjposted 8 years ago

    The part about Mark talking about a Green House growing tomatoes kills me, lol.

  12. fierycj profile image84
    fierycjposted 8 years ago

    Gawd, you're funny, Bren.

  13. profile image0
    \Brenda Scullyposted 8 years ago

    My dad is like Victor Meldrew so we got him a greenhouse, we kept getting loads of tomatoe plants so he would stay up there longer and longer, then we even gave him money and told him it was off neighbours so he could be gone a bit longer delivering his tomatoes... Then we got him hens so he could stay out and look after them too and deliver eggs.Still moaned when he came back but we had a few hours of peace a day...

  14. profile image0
    \Brenda Scullyposted 8 years ago

    I am actually getting a bit scared now, if my dad takes a long time to answer something I am usually in big trouble...

          Mark   you know I love you and your brothers dog sorry!!!!!!!

    1. Mark Knowles profile image60
      Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      lol

      Well, this may come as a bit of a shock, but I have other things to do as well. I have written 41 hubs in the last two weeks, I also write this luxury real estate blog for a living and run a bunch of my own blogs.

      And I am in no way offended - so don't you worry. I happen to think spending some of my time arguing against religionists is a worthwhile expense of energy. I wouldn't do it if I didn't think so.

      @ Pam - damn right I would. big_smile

      And lest we forget:

      http://markpknowles.com/wp-content/uploads/mini_chicago_ad_pretty_version.png

  15. tksensei profile image59
    tksenseiposted 8 years ago

    From the evidence available here his fear would seem to define him almost entirely.

    1. Lady Guinevere profile image60
      Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      The pattern of believers and prejudging something they have no idea what it is all about-----the person whom they don't understand is angry with the church, then they are afraid of something, then they are tried to be converted or re-converted, then they are called names.  It's a pattern with those who are indoctrinated without thinking on their own.

      1. tksensei profile image59
        tksenseiposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        How is it "pre" judging to judge a person on his own words after he has repeated the same simplistic, bigoted nonsense over and over and over again? More like "post" judging.

        1. Lady Guinevere profile image60
          Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          Who judges first?  Christians becsue that is what they think they are to do.  Accepting is not in their vocabulary.

    2. Jewels profile image82
      Jewelsposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      What fear is that? I've never known Mark to fear a personal god.

      I do know that some people need to be saved from themselves, perhaps that's what Marks 'job' is - helping you open your eyes a bit.  Just a thought.  Always good to be open and lateral in thought.  Blind faith is dangerous and when people live their lives as if they have nothing behind their words, but seem to speak allot, the gullible need some form of protection.

      1. tksensei profile image59
        tksenseiposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Fear of authority (like some petulant child), fear of the idea that he is not really God himself, fear that something exists outside his own ego that he cannot understand but that affects him and everything else without his 'permission' nonetheless, and a general fear that he might possibly be less impressed with himself for even a second.

        1. Mark Knowles profile image60
          Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          Why would I be afraid of this? This would be awesome ! Does it come with a perfect place to live in for all eternity and that would mean I don't have to die as long as I follow the rules you have for me? Fantastic ! And is the god you speak of on my side against all the heathens and unbelievers, who are clearly fools?

          Love this idea ! If I wasn't cursed with the ability to think for myself, I would sign up tomorrow and start going to war to protect this god. lol

          Troll.

      2. Vladimir Uhri profile image60
        Vladimir Uhriposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        It does not mean someone talk too much is wise enough. The faith is not blind at all if we have right information. The faith is always there, everything outside of our visual field.

  16. profile image0
    \Brenda Scullyposted 8 years ago

    Looked at some of the other sites, so you are very busy...
      Thinking about becoming a fan .......

    1. fierycj profile image84
      fierycjposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Think a lot about it.

    2. profile image0
      \Brenda Scullyposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      I was being serious I looked at the sitesthat he works on ....

  17. AEvans profile image71
    AEvansposted 8 years ago

    Here we go again.sad

  18. countrywomen profile image60
    countrywomenposted 8 years ago

    Brenda- I agree with you that it must be tough for Mark to remove misconceptions like this in another thread about Christians/Western nations day in and day out:

    PS: I tried and gave up already(maybe write a hub later) hence admire people like Mark who at least try to educate folks like him.smile

  19. Lady Guinevere profile image60
    Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago

    You know what--have any of you religious Zealots think of what you are saying and actually see what Mark says--or do you just like to call names and judge peoplel  That is a sorry *ss for an excuse to believe in a much higher power and then you go and tell others how they are going to come up in front of the judge when the time comes.  Don't you all read your bible at all?  What Ye Shall Sow, Ye Shall Reap--as it right now buddies!!  Karma at it's finest and you all think it is New Age--well the whole Bible is New Age.  Talking about calling the kettle black.  Shame on all of you for damning Athiests to Hell when you do worse then what your God or Jesus would ever have believed in yourselves.
    How many times are you to forgive?  When did Jesus ever tell you to drag someone through the mud becaseu he did not believe in what you do or how you do.  He didn't.  I can also assure you that when you go to the other side Jesus or God or Whomever is there they NEE+VER ask you what you beleive, if you beleive in him or God or even what religion you are.  It's all about LOVE---period, no rules, just love and total compassion for others no matter what or who they believe in.
    Read you Bible a whole lot more than you do and get the facts from the beginning not just come into the middle and think -oh this is right--and not find out why it is or anything about it.
    So prejudge all you want--it will be you that will get the reaping of what you sow and the karma to burn.

    1. My Inner Jew profile image84
      My Inner Jewposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Hmmm...we are allowed are opinion and so is mark.  I understand what he is saying and I am not damning him to hell...thats not my position or right.  I am not your judged, that is in the hands of God.  All sin is the same in God's eyes.  Lying is the same as murder.  Homosexuality is the same as Heterosexuality when it comes to sinning. 
      And a zealot can go both ways...whether that is religiously or nonreligiously...a zealot is anyone who believes to the extreme in something. 
      And I believe the love that christ showed us is the love we should have for everyone...only this one true love that God has shown is will reveal all truth...not love of the world...love of the world is superficial and fleeting and passing.
      I am not judging anyone for I myself am truly the biggest sinner i know.

      1. fierycj profile image84
        fierycjposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        I like the way you think, man.

        1. My Inner Jew profile image84
          My Inner Jewposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          Thanks!

      2. Lady Guinevere profile image60
        Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        So what is love of the world?  What is Worldy things?  You don't think that Mark loves or knows what it is and only you do?

        1. My Inner Jew profile image84
          My Inner Jewposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          haha...you are reading too much into this Lady G...I think you are becoming too easily offended.  I have said nothing against mark knowing how to love or not love.  I am trying to talk about the love the Greeks call philo, agape, and eros.
          eros: it is lusty love...and if you look at most marriages today they are based off eros
          philo:brotherly love love that we have for family and friends
          agape: this is the love christ showed us which is more than lust of the flesh and more than just brotherly love...it is serving love...giving all of you to help someone
          And before you get upset about this...the greeks came up with these terms before christ and i am using christ as an example.
          Mark if you feel offended at anything i have said please tell me.  But there is nothing in my comments anyone should take offense at.  They are simply my opinion lady G. as you simply have your opinion.

          1. Lady Guinevere profile image60
            Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago in reply to this

            There you go telling me how I feel.  I just asked simple questions and the program begins again.

            1. My Inner Jew profile image84
              My Inner Jewposted 8 years ago in reply to this

              Lady G...
              Haha...nope definitely don't know how you are feeling...stating a fact...i think you are offended...i don't know if you are feeling offended...are you?
              how does that make you feel?
              Is this a good feeling or a bad feeling?
              Do you want a good feeling?
              How does it make you feel to want a good feeling or bad feeling?
              How are you feeling now after you have answered these questions?

              1. Lady Guinevere profile image60
                Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                ......and this is in some way supposed to win your arguement?  I am not the one offended, you are and stop trying to reverse it.

          2. Lady Guinevere profile image60
            Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago in reply to this

            Man, I re=read you response.  I wasn't even going there----so who is on the defensive?
            About brotherly love--now tell me you would push your religion on your very own blood and flesh brother.........if he made a mistake (and I don't think there ever are mistakes) whould you tell him he was going to hell and that he was going to burn in the flames for the rest of his death and he was going to be judged=====well would you tell him those things?

    2. fierycj profile image84
      fierycjposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Why all the fury. Anyway, since I'm the one who made the New Age comment I'm gonna respond. Here's the thing, I believe in being calm. No fretting. A lot of what you said makes sense, but I dont get this -- you think that religious people are judgmental, hypocritical, and all what not. Always quick to condemn and all. But you don't think someone attacking the very cores of someones belief, condemning them for believing that morality is only fulfilling when its done for a higher purpose, you don't think that's condemnation? I know you and Mark are best buddies, and you have to take his side and all, but everything you say religionists are doing, atheists are doing too. There's hardly any extremists here. Dedicated, yes. I just think if we talk so much about democracy and freedom of speech and all that crap then it should apply to all. Atheists shouldn't feel threatened by religious people proclaiming their beliefs openly. It shouldn't bother them at all. After all, there is no God, right. Why the fuss! Just let the fools go on being the fools and hypocrites that they are. Thats all.

      1. Lady Guinevere profile image60
        Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Taht would be great if those who are religious stop the converting and trying to save the world.  Let it be.  Harm None.  When religious people put themselves on a pedestal and think and proclaim that they are the ONLY Way and the ONLY ones who have all the answers that is arrogant and it will bring something back as in what is happening with each opposites in the world.  If you constantly pound into people that they HAVE to do something without any knowledge of such--what do you think is going to happen?
        Mark and I aren't best buddies and I don't HAVE to stick up for anyone.  Our experiences with the Divine are much different then what is in a book and if you read your bible Jesus says not to go by any books.  If he said that God is in the minds and hearts of everyone then why try to prove him a liar because that is exactly what religios does.

  20. profile image0
    \Brenda Scullyposted 8 years ago

    o.k. right

  21. profile image0
    elliot.dunnposted 8 years ago

    i find it extremely interesting that atheists are proselytizing.  i'd have to agree with mr. fierycj on that one...why do they care?  I know why Christians care and that's cause they believe they have the answer to the big problem.  as overused as this cliche is...Christians compare the truth they know to a cure for cancer - they have a moral obligation to share it even if no one wants to hear it.

    so mr. knowles - you shouldn't really be that offended. maybe you should wonder why you are.  also, just so i can try to convince an atheist a little bit, the philosopher plantinga wrote about the ontological argument for the existence of God which basically said that the proof of God lies in the idea of God.  In other words, how could we have an idea of God, how could we even say there was no God, if there is no God?  check it out : http://www.iep.utm.edu/o/ont-arg.htm#SH2a. thanks for your hateful comment on the witnessing forum too.  gosh! smile

    and to Lady G: as hard as it is for me to resist picking apart your arguments - i'm trying to be a loving person, really i am - you should know that at the very beginning of the Bible - two books in (Exodus 20) - there's this whole big list of laws about how to follow God.  the 10 commandments.  then in the middle, Matthew 5, Jesus talks about how no letter of the Law (those 10 commandments) will ever be abolished.  i'd be curious to know what Bible you're reading...it's not the one i have...

    Love and Respect as we continually battle these things in our hearts and minds.

    1. Lady Guinevere profile image60
      Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      ....and Jesus said that the laws are written in the hearts and minds of men--so everyone knows these laws without the book.  Now you also need to go and get the differing versions of those Ten Commandments.  You can pick apart anything that I say, no matter to me, but just saying so is thrusting your views down my throat.  You seem to get the fact (which is not fact at all) that I don't believe in God or Jesus.  NOt a fact!  Just what else do you get wrong ---my feelings too.
      There is a pattern and I didn't just come up on it yesterday!  If you are somehow going by my picture and how young I look--you are also wrong about that too.

    2. Mark Knowles profile image60
      Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Offended - by what? I was just sharing the good news that we atheists are not going to knock on your door to spread the love.


      I must admit, I do despise liars and people who say they have an answer when they do not.

      I see you have nothing to say though. Which begs the question as to why on earth you would direct a comment at me - merely because I  do not subscribe to your world view.

      Hmm - Wonder why you need to spread your hatred and anger in this fashion. Why is that?

      1. profile image0
        elliot.dunnposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        more hateful comments! smile certainly you're offended now right? my intention was not to provoke further argument.  it certainly was not to "spread hatred and anger" haha...really?  were my comments hateful and angry? i was merely remarking on the oddity of an atheist's hatred against religiosity.  it would seem to me that in your worldview, you shouldn't care at all.  in illustrious conclusion, trying to provoke me isn't going to work but here's something that will really get under your skin: i'll be praying for you mr. knowles.

        1. Mark Knowles profile image60
          Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          Ah - so that is your intent - getting under my skin and upsetting me. Thanks for being honest - makes a nice change to know that is what you are after. Not offended at all - you have lived up to expectations.

          1. profile image0
            elliot.dunnposted 8 years ago in reply to this

            i wasn't sure if i, a lowly 17, could stand up to the lofty mr. one hundred.  kudos to mark knowles; you've swept the floor with me.  but i did mean i would pray for you, and i will.  this has been very enjoyable...i appreciate your perspectives and look forward to clashing with you when i'm more adept at hubbing.  please don't take this as anything more than an admission that you caught me...i've betrayed my points in attempts to be pithy. and please don't take me to be an angry, hateful jerkface.  i apologize for misunderstanding you; please don't misunderstand me.

            1. Mark Knowles profile image60
              Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

              No worries smile

    3. LondonGirl profile image89
      LondonGirlposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      So do you eat bacon? Shellfish? Rest your olive trees and fruit trees every 7 years? Stone people to death who wear mixed linen and wool?

  22. usmanali81 profile image60
    usmanali81posted 8 years ago

    Beware!

    This bus leads to Hell cool

  23. Mark Knowles profile image60
    Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago

    http://markpknowles.com/wp-content/uploads/mini_chicago_ad_pretty_version.png

    Perhaps one of you three religionists can answer my question. I am genuinely interested.

    1. fierycj profile image84
      fierycjposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Count me out, Mark. I'm no religionists. I love God, I love my neighbour, which includes you, Mark. If that's being a religionists, well, then include me.

      1. Mark Knowles profile image60
        Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Can you answer the question though? I know you are the kinda guy who will put a bullet in a guy's eye and then say the lord's prayer and all, but it is a really simple question.

        1. fierycj profile image84
          fierycjposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          Yeah, I love 'em to death.

          1. fierycj profile image84
            fierycjposted 8 years ago in reply to this

            and its head, not eye. Eye looks messy, and its so Cosa Nostra.

            1. Mark Knowles profile image60
              Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

              Effective though. Almost like a badly written character in an unsold novel. Got a few of those myself. Sill cannot answer the question?

              1. fierycj profile image84
                fierycjposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                No Mark, it doesn't frighten me. Here's how I figure it, if there's no God, then there would be nothing right. I mean, when we all die, then nothing. Just black non-existence. But if there is, then there's something to look forward to, eternity,joy, happiness. Sorry Mark, I choose the later prospect. After all, what have I got to lose. Nothing, lol.

                1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                  Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                  So you believe because you have nothing to lose and the idea that there is nothing does not frighten you so you look forward to it instead because you are not frightened by the nothing? Did I get that right?

                  1. fierycj profile image84
                    fierycjposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                    no, I look forward to the prospect of something than nothing. Cos with something, I have SOMETHING to look forward to. But with nothing, well NOTHING, so no losses. This equals to no fear.

    2. Andrew0208 profile image60
      Andrew0208posted 8 years ago in reply to this

      I do not see that as a question, just the rantings of atheism. If it's a question then "Mark Knowles is a wise woman."

      1. Mark Knowles profile image60
        Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        That is because you are too lazy to read the entire thread. wink

        1. Andrew0208 profile image60
          Andrew0208posted 8 years ago in reply to this

             You're the one contesting the fact. I'm not religious; God is real in me. Your ignorance and unacceptance of the Spirit life do not make it unreal either. Why are you worried about existence of God? That atheist slogan(rantings) on the bus is like saying that Mark Knowles is a wise woman. How true is it?

        2. Andrew0208 profile image60
          Andrew0208posted 8 years ago in reply to this

             You're the one contesting the fact. I'm not religious; God is real in me. Your ignorance and unacceptance of the Spirit life do not make it unreal either. Why are you worried about the existence of God? That atheist slogan(rantings) on the bus is like saying that Mark Knowles is a wise woman. How true is it?

          1. Mark Knowles profile image60
            Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

            Well - that did not answer the question Andrew.

            1. Andrew0208 profile image60
              Andrew0208posted 8 years ago in reply to this

                 It's meaningless since you've no value for the answer. Accept or argue it; There's God and God is a Spirit. Cannot be measured with sensory perceptions, science, and religion.

              1. Lady Guinevere profile image60
                Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                ....and according to Jesus it is in everyone weather you belive it is so or not.  Athiests have it and so do those who believe---so what is you point exactly?

        3. Eng.M profile image75
          Eng.Mposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          it doesn't frighten me actually

          it makes more sense to me there is an infinite God rather than an infinite blind material

          and don't tell me itsn't blind because it's

          1. Eng.M profile image75
            Eng.Mposted 8 years ago in reply to this

            although , many people need hope

            religions give them that

            and I think the idea of evolution does frighten a lot

            1. Eng.M profile image75
              Eng.Mposted 8 years ago in reply to this

              and the fact there is God is what frightens me

            2. Lady Guinevere profile image60
              Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago in reply to this

              Hope of what--not being called a sinner once they get to heaven?
              Hope tht they are being called a sinner and are the scum of the earth ever since they were born and will have to repent for it for the rest of their natural lives?
              Hope that there is an end?
              ????

              1. Eng.M profile image75
                Eng.Mposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                a hope there is a better place

      2. Lady Guinevere profile image60
        Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        All the religionists are getting upset because of a few busses that have this on tem.  Do you not see all the churches that have their signs out front with pleas to get parishioners?  A few busses versus a few hundreds of thousands churches......hmmmm

  24. profile image0
    \Brenda Scullyposted 8 years ago

    Fierycj, dont even bother going near him he is big trouble...

    1. fierycj profile image84
      fierycjposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Why is everyone so scared of him. I don't get it. I really don't.

  25. profile image0
    \Brenda Scullyposted 8 years ago

    not scared at all but the same things go round and round and no body gets any where at all, and what is the point, up to you if you have hours to spare, I just decided it was a big waste of time, and you know I am bossy.........

    1. fierycj profile image84
      fierycjposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      You sure are, Bren...lol.

  26. Make  Money profile image74
    Make Moneyposted 8 years ago

    I think these billboards are backfiring on the atheists anyway.  It just gets more people to think about God. smile

  27. earnestshub profile image86
    earnestshubposted 8 years ago

    I just hope it teaches people to think past what they know now.

    1. Jewels profile image82
      Jewelsposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      I think this is the reality, people are thinking for themselves more than ever before.  Thank goodness.

  28. tksensei profile image59
    tksenseiposted 8 years ago

    Sure, perfect, but the idea that there does exist objective morality that you would have to submit your enormous ego to would still be too much for the likes of you to bear.

    1. Lady Guinevere profile image60
      Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Objective morality?  You mean that your thoughts cannot create anything.  Then what are you doing with this forum--are you not creating something?  Hubs--do you write them or does someone or something else write them for you and you just say that it is yours?
      Hope for something better---will NVER come if all you do is hope and think about it--you must do something about it.  Think positively and that brings positive back.  We create our own worlds and each of us creates it for ourselves and then it is broadcast to others and it affects others and so on and so forth......That is in that book you read.  The world starts with you and no one else.
      What is wrong with your world right now?  Think of all that you have, right now and be grateful for it.

      1. tksensei profile image59
        tksenseiposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        As I was saying...

        1. Lady Guinevere profile image60
          Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          I don't know about you, but I love my world.

          1. tksensei profile image59
            tksenseiposted 8 years ago in reply to this

            Glad to hear it. I'll bet you'd love it even more if you understood it better.

            1. Lady Guinevere profile image60
              Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago in reply to this

              I understand it very well, thank you.  So waht are your grateful for right now?
              I am grateful that we can have discussion and meet people from all over the world right now.  Isn't it beautiful and wonderous that we have created this for ourselves many years ago by just a thought.  We have truly come a long way in reacuing out to others in ways we would have never imagined 100 years ago.
              I am grateful that all the things on this earth and beyond my knowledge and sight for they are all good.
              I am grateful that each of us has the ptential to do and be and have anything they want in their lives just by thinking so.
              I am grateful thast I have this body to be able to do these things on this earth at this time.
              I am grateful that I have brought all the things to me that seem good and bad in the effort to help others learn about themselves as well.
              I am grateful for knowling that I am LOVED UNCONDITIONALLY--no strings attached and no rules and sin is never entered into the picture.

              How about you??

              1. tksensei profile image59
                tksenseiposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                Good for you. You're right and you're wrong of course (like all of us).

                1. Lady Guinevere profile image60
                  Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                  How?

                  1. tksensei profile image59
                    tksenseiposted 8 years ago in reply to this

                    Most everyone understands some but no one understands all (or even very much). And anyone who thinks that everything begins and ends with them personally is pathologically self-centered and self-deluded.

  29. Will Apse profile image90
    Will Apseposted 8 years ago

    Given that humanism and science are so characteristically Christian in their assumptions and origins, it's hard to understand the savagery of the science v religion stuff.

    The more important issue is- why are so many Christians so ignorant of their religion's traditions and heritage And why are so many humanists so ignorant of theirs?

    1. RKHenry profile image78
      RKHenryposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Great question!

  30. Ande Moore profile image60
    Ande Mooreposted 8 years ago

    I enjoyed reading poor Andrew and his quest to fight the good fight.  The comments that arise from these are absolutely wonderful, and I only wish that I had started coming on these forum sites earlier.  The trashing I take in comments led me to believe HubP. was a devoted group to the christian rank.  Thanks for fully filling me up with my morning bitterness from the religious view point.

    1. Mark Knowles profile image60
      Mark Knowlesposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      LOL

      They certainly are thick on the ground. Andrew takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'. big_smile

      I will check out your hubs. I usually prefer to have my "discussions" here because I have found my comments deleted on a number of occasions when I disagree with a certain viewpoint.

      1. Lady Guinevere profile image60
        Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        You too!!  Imagine that!

    2. Andrew0208 profile image60
      Andrew0208posted 8 years ago in reply to this

      You're welcome.
      These rantings of atheism are very serious on their nerves...little sentiments.

  31. open-minded profile image60
    open-mindedposted 8 years ago

    I don't really care what the bus ads say (as far as who created whom), I'm just excited to see that people are trying to voice a different point of view.  I think in US we are surrounded by religious messages everyday, why should religion play such a big role in our society when we have so many people with a different point of view.

    1. Jewels profile image82
      Jewelsposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Yes, fair's fair!

    2. Lady Guinevere profile image60
      Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Illuminati

      look around the hubs here--Bard Of Ely's, Muley84's, mine and some others I will have to look up for ya.

    3. Vladimir Uhri profile image60
      Vladimir Uhriposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      Is the communism more important?

  32. tksensei profile image59
    tksenseiposted 8 years ago

    That post is one giant contradiction.

    1. Jewels profile image82
      Jewelsposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      What is contradicting?  Is it the selfish and self-centered bit?

    2. Lady Guinevere profile image60
      Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      ......and Jesus said The Kingdom of God is Within you--not outside or beside you or even in another person, but in each and every one of us. He said that your body is the temple--not a building or church or another person.

      1. Vladimir Uhri profile image60
        Vladimir Uhriposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        Wrong. Jesus was talking to believers who already had a covenant. Kingdom of God is not in everybody. Only who are born of God - the Word. Jesus is Logos Word in the envelope of flesh. Sorry, I must disagree.

        1. Jewels profile image82
          Jewelsposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          Oh my God!  Bite your tongue Vladimir. This is the saddest thing I've heard.  This has cemented my knowing of how badly you are being taught.  This IS THE ARHIMANIC AGENDA in all it's damning glory.  Step outside your closed mind and get some real knowledge before you really need saving.  This is segregation in all it's stupidity.  You dear man have it all within yourself.  It is not outside of you, never has been, never will be. To get to the 'Kingdom of God' - go within yourself.  It will NEVER be outside. Get spiritual, get with the real program and stop the nonsense. Wake up! Now I'm going to have to raise my hands above my head and seek an enormous power to make you see that you're missing some opportunities to see.  Whoever told you you are not born of the good stuff, is going to get a good whipping sooner or later.  Jesus, God, Buddah etc. etc. forgive them, for they know not what they are learning.

          1. Lady Guinevere profile image60
            Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago in reply to this

            Jewels you think this is bad just go take a look at what he is saying and the comments he is making towards me on his hub GOD HAS A SON--oh and he uses all caps!

        2. Lady Guinevere profile image60
          Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          That is YOUR reading of those scriptures.  Tell me what it says in the hebrew version you are so aptly said that you have read.  What do the other major religious books say on that subject.  Did Jesus not come to Thomas who was doubting and tell him that he knew him already.  Thomas was not a Christian like we hae today.  Aren't you just adding words to the Bible and seeing somethng that is does say...

  33. Jewels profile image82
    Jewelsposted 8 years ago

    Foolish it is. I'm hanging my humanitarian, spiritualist, athiest, peopleist head in shame with that foolish nonsense. I just can't go see LG, I can't - it's too painful.  I can't be around that much sillyness.

  34. Lady Guinevere profile image60
    Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago

    We need to be more forgiving of these people.  After all, they are in Kindergarden in the school of life.

  35. Vladimir Uhri profile image60
    Vladimir Uhriposted 8 years ago

    Well thank you for rudeness and calling me names. What you say this is what you are. Bless you.

    1. Lady Guinevere profile image60
      Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago in reply to this

      What name did I call you?  You still, after four attempts, did not answer my question----why do you feel the need to minister to me?

      1. Vladimir Uhri profile image60
        Vladimir Uhriposted 8 years ago in reply to this

        You call me lazy. You do not believe in Bible at all then why I should quote to you the Bible?
        I thought and believe in friendship. You have a potential, but you trash it all the time.

        1. Lady Guinevere profile image60
          Lady Guinevereposted 8 years ago in reply to this

          You were the one who told me that you would not go back and read the Bible again.  That is lazy.  Why should you quote the Bible when it is the only book that you rely on as the total truth?
          I believe in friendship too but what I don't believe in is a start on the wrong foot when you said that I am an challenge to you or that I will be challenge.  To me sir, that is no friendship--that is just an argument to let me know that you will be right in everything that is said.  That is NO friendship!
          Potential in what?  I have the potential to do as MY Christ (Soul/HigherSelf) says and that of Nature and all that is around me.  I have the potential to let those who only deal with each others as sparring partners and that they have the right to fight anyone who does not believe in what they believe in.  I also have the potential in telling those same people that while you are fighting you are destroying our (as in yours, mine and ours and that of the beautiy of Nature and the things which we need to survive) earth that we live on.  I have much potential to do as I was to do in this life that I chose and co-created with the source as to what lessons I will learn.

  36. profile image0
    \Brenda Scullyposted 8 years ago

    Hi everyone, just popped in to say hi, was surprised to see this thread still going, I dont really have anything negative, positive, or otherwise to say except have a good day, and may your god go with you....

 
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