How about a Real Invitation to Jesus for a Change

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glendoncabaposted 14 years ago

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all [ye] that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
11:30 For my yoke [is] easy, and my burden is light.

Come to Jesus, a blessed invitation. To the Person of Jesus. Friend, Saviour, Lord, Messiah. Someone to trust, to worship, to abide with you forever. He understands. He became human so he understands our pains, our fears. He is forgiving, loving, and compassionate.

"Come to me all who are weary and burdened," he says.

Come.
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1. 59
  yes2truthposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This is only an invitation to those who are heavy laden with religion or those who genuinely endeavoured to keep The Law i.e. not like the Pharisees. This was not an invitation to all.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  sorry. this forum is free and I feel invited to comment every time I want
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  yes2truthposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The comment was not addressed to you.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I don't care. I felt like commenting
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The word 'rest' is key to this passage.
  
  Every event, every episode had an audience. Matthew as a writer had an audience too. We reading it 2000 years later must ask What is here for me?
  
  So let's dig up the word!
  
  Matthew wrote his gospel to his fellow Jews to prove that jesus is the messiah.
  
  Matthew 1 to 10: matthew sets forth offer of Jesus the messiah to the jewish people.
  
  beginning with Chapter 11 Matthew now shifts from the offer of messiah to Israel's refusal of that offer, this refusal climaxes in chapter 27 with crucifixion.
  
  Here in Chapter 11 jesus denounces the cities which did not repent. But he commends the humble who respond. To all who are weary and burdened he offers rest.
  
  the word rest is key.
  
  Anapausis is the same greek word used in septaugint for rest that God was to give Israel through the leadership of Moses. The contrast is with burdens imposed by Pharisees.
  
  Let us also remember the OT parallel with Moses. Moses failed to give israel the true rest. Christ the second Moses will give israel, and by extension spiritual israel, the rest that was promised through Moses and never achieved (see Heb:4:1-11).
  
  Jesus offers an easier yoke than the yoke of law of rabbis. He came to make the law a blessing.
  
  Yes. The primary application to the primary audience of Jews. But all Scripture is instructive for salvation.
  
  Would you prevent all nations from finding rest in Jesus?
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  yes2truthposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You can dig up what you like, but all it will be is Christian Religious BS.
  
  "The word 'rest' is key to this passage."
  
  No it's not "Come unto me ALL YOU WHO ARE HEAVY LADEN" is the key and nothing else. They were heavy laden with the Pharisees Satanic interpretation of The Law, i.e. the letter of the law rather than the Spirit of the Law.
  
  The Law is Holy, Spiritual and Good - not burdensome if interpreted correctly i.e. Spiritually.
  
  Furthermore The Lord came primarily for the House of Israel, not the House of Judah. Israel being the ten tribes scattered throughout known world from the lands of the Medes and Parthians in the East to the British Isles in the West.
  
  Matt 10:5-6 (KJV) These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
  
  If you want to truly starting digging in the Holy Scriptures then start digging for The Truth, instead of trying to back up your erroneous preconceived ideas that you have been brainwashed and spoon fed with by the Christian Religion.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why are you spoiling what could be a great thread with a wall of unbelief in the grace of God.
  
  Let me repeat myself:
  
  Here in Chapter 11 jesus denounces the cities which did not repent. But he commends the humble who respond. To all who are weary and burdened he offers rest.
  
  The word rest is key.
  
  Anapausis is the same greek word used in septaugint for 'rest' that God was to give Israel through the leadership of Moses. The contrast is with burdens imposed by Pharisees.
  
  Let us also remember the OT parallel with Moses. Moses failed to give israel the true rest. Christ the second Moses will give israel, and by extension spiritual israel, the rest that was promised through Moses and never achieved (see Heb:4:1-11).
  
  Jesus offers an easier yoke than the yoke of law of rabbis. He came to make the law a blessing.
  
  Yes. The primary application to the primary audience of Jews. But all Scripture is instructive for salvation.
  
  Would you prevent all nations from finding rest in Jesus?
  
  You focus on the problem, the burden of the Pharisees etc.. Christ described the problem and offers the solution.
  
  The gospel is all about the solution. We are all weary and burdened, in need of rest.
  
  Do you really discuss Bible with abbreviated near expletives? The fact that we disagree is no reason to use such words. Sorry but I only engage in discussions with polite language.
  
  Noble. Pure. Honest. Good report. Not sarcasm and near expletives.
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74
glendoncabaposted 14 years ago
Earnest dont take this the wrong way but you actually resemble the artist impression of Jesus in pic.

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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
I think it is just the beard. I am much older.
Here is a pic of me at a similar age.

I got the nose straightened later!
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habeeposted 14 years ago
Ya know, Earnest, after reading your posts on this forum, I realize that we have something in common. As I've stated before, I am a Christian. I am much more focused, however, on the spiritual aspect than I am of the religious aspect. In fact, I find the trappings of most organized religions to be too controling and too clannish. I kind of agree with William Blake's views about organized religions.
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habeeposted 14 years ago
RE: the pic.

I dunno, Ernesto, ya kinda got the same eyes and eyebrows. Similar face shape, too.

Why do men's looks often improve with age, but most women's take a nose dive after 40? Sorry. Didn't mean to offend anyone. I speak for myself.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well I am not much of a judge of looks I guess. Women are beautiful from the mind up as far as I am concerned.
  I see beautiful women in their nineties!
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
That's cool habee.
I do not do god, but if you do that is fine by me. I know many people who do not believe in god or religion who are very spiritual beings, with high moral standards, so the insistence on sinners can be pretty silly.
I could call what I believe something like god too, but that would be confused with the hate filled god of the bible or quoran!
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habeeposted 14 years ago
Good for you! (about the women comment)
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
I hope you have a man who thinks you are beautiful.
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yes2truthposted 14 years ago
"Acts 17:30 "In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent."

General call."

Ah yes, let's all pick a Scripture out of context and make it sound how we want it to sound.

In the past God overlooked such ignorance. Ignorance of what?

Acts 17:29 (KJV) Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

He calls all those everywhere who are worshipping carved images of stone, or moulded images of silver and gold to repent. Paul was speaking directly to the Greeks here.

Acts 17:30-31 (KJV) And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

The Lord will judge the world in righteousness and He has given assurance unto all men. Man in general or the masses will not repent fully until the second resurrection - the Great White Throne Tribunal. Those that repent now of worshipping stone idols will have it easier in the tribunal.

1 Tim 4:10 (KJV) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

The Lord is the SAVIOUR OF ALL MEN and especially of those that believe.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I see you would rather argue a pet point than join the pilgrim band. Do forums turn nice, sane decent Christian people into this? If i turned up at your church or bible study would you spend the day beating me over the head with a pet belief or would you begin by sharing the loving call of Jesus? First by action, then by words.
  
  My point was "all are called to repentance now". General call.
  
  We know that many called but in the garden are wheat and tares.
  Leave the judgement to God and point others to Jesus.
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  yes2truthposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "My point was "all are called to repentance now". General call."
  
  My point is that by misinterpreting this Holy Scripture you are creating a contradiction.
  
  Here is my point which, as it happens, just happens to The Lord's point too:
  
  Matt 13:10-16 (KJV) And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. 13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. 14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: 15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. 16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
  
  If I had a 'church' (which I don't for I am a part of The CHURCH) and you turned up I doubt you would stay for five minutes, for you are a stranger to The Truth. You love lies and believe in lies - the lies of The Christian Religion.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How do you treat with:
  
  "...now He commands all people everywhere to repent."
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  yes2truthposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I have already answered this earlier in the thread.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No you have not.
  
  This is Paul in Athens talking to Gentiles.
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  yes2truthposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Paul in Athens talking to gentiles that were worshipping carved and moulded images. This is what he was commanding them to repent of, nothing else. Now read the next verse you blind guide:
  
  Acts 17:31 (KJV) Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
  
  Here is the assurance given to all men that they will all be saved, but it will be better for them if they repent of worshipping false idols now, rather than wait for the tribunal.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The assurance = proof that Risen Christ will preside over judgement is the resurrection.
  
  Have you taken a careful look at the original Greek here.
  
  The NIV catches the clear meaning: "For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead."
  
  The resurrection is the assurance of Judgement.
  
  The issue of resurrection was new to audience, and some sneered (V32). Thank God a few believed.
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  yes2truthposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes justice unlike this world - true justice that no man need fear. Justice that you know nothing about, for no doubt you are a blaspheming hell fire and torment non-gospel bad news messenger. I am being very very polite here.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  A careful exposition of the text will demonstrate that the assurance was the resurrection. Not assurance that all saved. Do the exegesis and compare to romans where same verb is used.
  
  Proof that he will judge world is resurrection form dead.
  
  Do the hard work, the careful exegesis.
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  yes2truthposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Here he goes again with his intellectual babblings.
  
  Careful exposition of the text?? Total spiritually dead nonsense.
  
  Here is another Scripture that I quoted earlier that you conveniently overlooked!!
  
  1 Tim 4:10 (KJV) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, WHO IS THE SAVIOUR OF ALL MEN, specially of those that believe.
  
  Now this is what I call INCLUSIVE - there just for you - your favourite word!
  
  Here is another for you to meditate on in your quiet time - yuk.
  
  1 Tim 2:4 (KJV) Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
  
  And another:
  
  Romans 11:26 (KJV) And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
  
  Now here is another question for you: If ALL Israel is going to be saved, are the gentiles going to be discriminated against!?
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I am happy you have finally arrived here so we see where you are coming from. You have not satisfactorily responded to acts 17:31. You simply insulted and scoffed. Not an answer.
  
  Your interpretation of romans 11:26 is very important to understanding where we disagree.
  
  The message of the book Romans is Justification by Faith. Was a very important book for Martin Luther during Protestant Reformation.
  
  I am going to share the following for general insight:
  
  26. And so. Gr. kai houtoµs, “and thus,” “and in this way.” The adverb expresses manner, not conclusion, or time.
  All Israel. That Paul is not teaching universal salvation for either Gentiles or Jews. Furthermore, why should only the generation of Jews living in the time of the end be assured of salvation by some kind of divine decree? Paul has expressed his hope that “some of them” (v. 14) might be saved. It seems evident from this that he believed that many would reject all efforts to save them, and that accordingly he never envisioned the conversion of the entire nation.
  Some commentators hold that the faithful remnant (v. 5) to which are added those Jews who accept Christ during the Christian Era, constitute the “all Israel” who will be saved. This view is based on the observation that Paul’s burden in ch. 11 is the salvation of his fellow Israelites. He contrasts their salvation with that of the Gentiles. The two groups are distinguished throughout the chapter by the Jews’ being referred to in the third person and the Gentiles in the second. The salvation of the former is described by the expression “all Israel shall be saved”; that of the latter by “the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.”
  Other commentators hold that “all Israel” represents spiritual Israel. This view is based on the belief that Paul is here completing his illustration of the olive tree. He has shown how the branches representing the unbelieving Jews were broken off, and the wild olive shoots, representing the Gentiles, grafted in. He has shown, also, how the severed branches could be reunited with the parent stock. By the grafting in of these branches the tree representing spiritual Israel would again be made whole. “All Israel” would thus represent the totality of those saved, Jews and Gentiles, who together constitute “all” of true Israel (Rom. 2:28, 29; Gal. 6:15, 16).
  Nichol, Francis D., The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, (Washington, D.C.: Review and Herald Publishing Association) 1978.
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  yes2truthposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Intellectual BS and satanic explaining away. Like you he is full of it.
  
  BTW The Jews or better Canaanite Jews are not Israel.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not even a critical response. Just the usual ad hominen attack. OK.
  
  May I recommend you read up on Martin Luther and the Protestant Reformation. This thread is in the Protestant sub-forum. Righteousness by faith in Jesus is the gem in the book of Romans.
  
  Your desire to show the superiority of your ideas is distracting others from sharing Good News about Jesus as Saviour and Lord.
  
  I respect your freedom to believe as you do. I cannot condone you coming on here with a rude and vulgar attitude which does not tolerate discussion of text once you disagree.
  
  No offence but I wont respond to you any more because you dont discuss in a manner to build community in a global forum.
  
  Theologically I may be far more into the remnant teaching than u but I believe in the love of God.
  
  Love is kind. it does not boast, it is not proud.
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  yes2truthposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Here we go yet again only it's love being used this time to paper over their satanic mumbo jumbo.
  
  I boast only in the Lord Jesus Christ. You boast in other men and their meaningless intellectual drivel.
  
  "Just the usual ad hominen attack."
  
  Of course, for that is all it deserves, as does all theological explaining away. I quoted a simple Holy Scripture that says All Israel will be saved and there is no way it can be explained away. Why would anyone want to? Oh yes, anyone with a fire and torment bad news message would want to, for there is no way we can have all those wretched sinners being saved in the second resurrection is there? That wouldn't do at all.
  
  Not only that, it would make all our present day invitations to our long haired wimp phony Jesus a laughing stock, which of course they are.
  
  "No offence but I wont respond to you any more because you don't discuss in a manner to build community in a global forum."
  
  I am not interested is discussing anything with you, nor building on your sandy foundation, only exposing your false message for what it is - syrupy sentimental Christian Religious garbage.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You came on this thread with your insults etc. You had a choice.
  
  The Greek in rom 11:26 does not suggest a conclusion but adverb of manner. So I propose in this thread that this is the way all israel will be saved. You may believe otherwise. This is a global forum
  
  I believe Paul is saying the new testament church is grafted into the Israel of God. By connection with Christ all spiritual israel saved.
  
  We dont send sinners to hell. Hell is end of sin and unrepentant sinners. Revelation talks about lake of fire.
  
  Please go. Anyone who does not agree with you will get a dose of your foul language. I choose to maintain a spirit of community.
  
  You win. Please spare us the vulgarity. Have mercy! I want nothing to do with a religion which spreads its message with such hate. God sent Jesus who called mankind to repentance yet spent most of time as a Loving Friend healing and teaching.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This is a most unkind statement to make about someone you don't know just because I don't agree with your view.
  
  Show me from the bible where Jesus has taken back the commission to go and make disciples of all nations.
  
  What was Paul and the early Christians doing if not inviting people to Jesus Christ under the power of the Holy Spirit.
  
  From Genesis to Revelation God is calling a people to love Him and worship Him.
  
  "By coming to dwell among us Jesus was to reveal God both to men and to angels". (EG White)
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  yes2truthposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The Truth hurts and I make no apologies for it. If you were of The Truth you would not be hurt, nor offended. The fact that you are offended speaks for itself.
  
  I do not have views, I have The Truth and there is no other Truth, for The Truth is the Lord Jesus Christ.
  
  I didn't say The Lord had taken back the commission to teach learners the Truth. Paul was charged with that mission, but The Twelve were charged with going to the Ten Tribes of Israel.
  
  Likewise I could say why are you ignoring these Holy Scriptures and attempting to create contradictions at every turn?
  
  John 6:44 (KJV) No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
  
  John 6:65 (KJV) And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
  
  Notice that The Lord says it twice so that people like yourself are without excuse when you blasphemously ignore it and teach your "I have accepted Jesus as my saviour" crap.
  
  "What was Paul and the early Christians doing if not inviting people to Jesus Christ under the power of the Holy Spirit."
  
  Paul, like all the apostles, declared the Good News message and those that The Father was calling responded - no one else.
  
  Many are called few are chosen.
  
  Matt 7:13-14 (KJV) Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, (Spiritual ruin) and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. (brackets mine)
  
  Many Christians are called, but like yourself they go astray (spiritual ruin) and follow religion with its non-gospel and long haired wimp phony Jesus, instead of following The Lord Jesus Christ and Him alone.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Being rude does not equal Truth.
  
  Please desist from self righteous accusatory tone.
  
  You have not answered my question clearly.
  
  Of course Christ started with Jews. When they rejected gospel signified by stoning of stephen the gospel went to Gentiles.
  
  Why would you keep Gentiles from Jesus.
  
  John3: 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
  3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
  3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
  3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
  3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
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yes2truthposted 14 years ago
"Atheists and others who do not believe in your preposterous interpretation chosen out of thousands of other disagreeing and crazy beliefs are simply sane and reasoning.

Some may be lost, but most are too busy leading normal healthy loving lives to get caught up in such fantasies!
Sell your hate filled lies to someone who is already indoctrinated."

If you're that busy, why are you wasting your time here making worthless comments, on a subject you know nothing about?
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yes2truthposted 14 years ago
BTW who's the long haired effeminate wimp in the photograph?
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  UpHisAssposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes. Excellent. Show them a real man with short hair and a ...... bible in her avatar.
  
  Nevertheless..... Well done. Point proven. I like you and have joined your fan club. I hope you will allow me to express my admiration for you there. Very, very well done. Yay!!!!
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Where are your hubs oh Mighty One!. We'll like to know..Maybe you left them in Boleskine Manor
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  UpHisAssposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Th real truth needs no proof - or hubs. I will be there when you want me......
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Here is another angle on Matt. 11:28,29
  
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  yes2truthposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Looks like a Roman Catholic BS money making angle to me and all with their phony long haired nancy boy logo. Sentimental meaningless crap, mostly designed for silly Roman Catholic women.
  
  1 Cor 11:14-15 (KJV) Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? 15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.
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  Sanctus Vesaniaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Does anyone else besides me find it disturbing that 'Jesus' and that man are at the edge of what appears to be cliff? The way the painting is done, I'm almost expecting this 'Jesus' to throw the man off the cliff.
  
  Ooh, but the colors are pretty.
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  Make Moneyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It almost sounds like both of you are arguing with a 7th Day Adventist slander perspective. Are both of you from different 7th Day Adventist sects? Or possibly a 7th Day Adventist and Messianic Jewish perspective, both of which "witness" with slander.
  
  You know glendoncaba there are some 7th Day Adventist in Europe that could not fathom that a black man could possibly be part of the body of Christ. They figure they know where the ten lost tribes are now (as if that matters), within only their select pick of countries. They are wrong on both accounts.
  
  Here's some more things for you guys to argue about.
  
  Aside from the Ten Commandments the Mosaic Law has been superseded by the New Covenant.
  
  Faith is dead without works.
  
  Jesus said "Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you", the daily Sacrifice of the Holy Eucharist.
  
  Jesus willingly died on the cross for the forgiveness of the sins of everyone but some don't hear His message so there will be both wheat and chaff on judgment day.
  
  "Once saved, always saved", is not a true Christian doctrine.
  
  We are called to be one body in Christ.
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  yes2truthposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I am not even going to answer this ill informed hotch-potch of misguided nonsense.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Make Money
  
  The people you refer to in Europe would probably be an offshoot and not members of the world church. Even catholics have extreme wing!!!
  
  Adventists dont witness with slander. We match history with sola scriptura. You know that.
  
  I dont get this guy yes2truth. He ignores the plain gospel texts and uses very rude language to describe what he does not agree with. It is well and good to share his perspective but his approach borders on the crude. Not Seventh-day Adventist at all.
  
  So ironic that you and i agree on most fundamental points of doctrine, even here. Except the transsubstantiation thingy.
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  yes2truthposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh yes we must have a demon-ination or a pigeon hole to put people in. Great, this is all grist for the mill and reveals your Christian Religious credentials perfectly.
  
  Hypocrites; Nests of vipers; sons of the Devil; throats like open graves; - Like me to go on, for they all apply to you.
  
  No, you will never get me, for you are a stranger to The Truth - a man of religion - a 21st century Pharisee.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Your ad hominen attacts mean nothing. Just respond with the Bible.
  
  Someone said you might be SDA and I said no. simple.
  
  Now respond to clear Greek exegesis of Acts 17. There is no room for error. Paul argues that the resurrection validates the Judge.
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  Make Moneyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah it's nice to see that we agree on most fundamental points glendoncaba. I have a couple of posts on the first page of this thread about the Holy Eucharist that you might be interested in reading, especially the second post that shows that the history of the "real presence" of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist is just about 2,000 years old. It was in the Liturgy of the Mass then as it is now.
  http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/23022
  
  Mike
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The sore point of the 95 theses .
  
  I wonder if the administrators of HubPages knew what they were doing when they put Protestant as a sub forum. Mike! Mike! MIKE!
  
  After trying to share basic NT doctrines with that yes2truth guy I wonder if you and I should now lock horns over the meaning of the Lord's Supper.
  
  You know when I posted this thread I was so innocent I did not anticipate that Christians would come out of the woodwork to play their favourite pet peeve. I figured all believers would say "hey, that's a breath of fresh air, no doctrinal debates, lets just praise our Lord and Saviour."
  
  OK Mike we can revisit the Lutherans and talk about the debate on transubstantiation. If I paid so much attention to that other fellow, I owe you quality time.
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  yes2truthposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You don't worship The Lord and Saviour by the evidence on this thread PLACED HERE BY YOU. You worship a long haired effeminate fop, a papist logo used by them to make money out of the lemmings that follow their money making organisation.
  
  Got any BS theses to explain this one away!!
  
  I wonder if Peter and Andrew had any theses!!?? Oh yes, they must have studied them whilst out on lake Galilee fishing!!
  
  Keep going guys, for I'll mock you and your intellectual religious BS till Kingdom come. Just like The Lord did in the first century with those Pharisees.
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habeeposted 14 years ago
Thanks, Earnest. Fortunately, I do have a very good man - one I don't deserve, honestly.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Of course you deserve him! He thinks so, and you know he has great taste!
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Sanctus Vesaniaposted 14 years ago
I'd like to know this as well. For a group of people who 1.) claim that there is no God and 2.) appear to hate the actions of those who try to convert people to Christianity, they sure do try to convince Christians that there is no God.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  We don't hate them. We think is boring and useless so much copying and pasting,and quoting Bible qotes, when we don't believe any of it. Why can't believers answer short and concise ?
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  yes2truthposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Because men of the Christian Religion and philosophy make it complicated.
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  Sanctus Vesaniaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Technically I didn't say that you hated us. I did say that you appear to hate the actions of those who try to convert people.
  
  But, besides the point, this topic is called 'How about a Real Invitation to Jesus for a Change' so why would you even be in here?
  
  By the way, there are threads "When did you decide to become an atheist" for example, that I have not set foot in. Why? Because I know they don't pertain to me.
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\Brenda Scullyposted 14 years ago
been out all day missed so much on these forums...... sadly
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glendoncabaposted 14 years ago
Since I'm quoting EG White please allow me to quote from that great volume THE DESIRE OF AGES:

"By His humanity, Christ touched humanity; by His divinity, He lays hold upon the throne of God. As the Son of man, He gave us an example of obedience; as the Son of God, He gives us power to obey. It was Christ who from the bush on Mount Horeb spoke to Moses saying, "I AM THAT I AM. . . . Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you." Ex. 3:14. This was the pledge of Israel's deliverance. So when He came "in the likeness of men," He declared Himself the I AM. The Child of Bethlehem, the meek and lowly Saviour, is God "manifest in the flesh." 1 Tim. 3:16. And to us He says: "I AM the Good Shepherd." "I AM the living Bread." "I AM the Way, the Truth, and the Life." "All power is given
unto Me in heaven and in earth." John 10:11; 6:51; 14:6; Matt. 28:18. I AM the assurance of every promise. I AM; be not afraid. "God with us" is the surety of our deliverance from sin, the assurance of our power to obey the law of heaven. {DA 24.3}
In stooping to take upon Himself humanity, Christ revealed a character the opposite of the character of Satan. But He stepped still lower in the path of humiliation. "Being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross." Phil. 2:8. As the high priest laid aside his gorgeous pontifical robes, and officiated in the white linen dress of the common priest, so Christ took the form of a servant, and offered sacrifice, Himself the priest, Himself the victim. "He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon Him." Isa. 53:5. {DA 25.1}
Christ was treated as we deserve, that we might be treated as He deserves. He was condemned for our sins, in which He had no share, that we might be justified by His righteousness, in which we had no share. He suffered the death which was ours, that we might receive the life which was His. "With His stripes we are healed." {DA 25.2}
By His life and His death, Christ has achieved even more than recovery from the ruin wrought through sin. It was Satan's purpose to bring about an eternal separation between God and man; but in Christ we become more closely united to God than if we had never fallen. In taking our nature, the Saviour has bound Himself to humanity by a tie that is never to be broken. Through the eternal ages He is linked with us. "God so loved the world, that He gave His only-begotten Son." John 3:16. He gave Him not only to bear our sins, and to die as our sacrifice; He gave Him to the fallen race. To assure us of His immutable counsel of peace, God gave His only-begotten Son to become one of the human family, forever to retain His human nature. This is the pledge that God will fulfill His word. "Unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon His shoulder." God has adopted human nature in the person of His Son, and has carried the same into the highest heaven. It is the "Son of man" who shares the throne of the universe. It is the "Son of man" whose name shall be called, "Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." Isa. 9:6. The I AM is the Daysman between God and humanity, laying His hand upon both. He who is "holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners," is not ashamed to call us brethren. Heb. 7:26; 2:11. In Christ the family of earth and the family of heaven are bound together. Christ glorified is our brother. Heaven is enshrined in humanity, and humanity is enfolded in the bosom of Infinite Love. {DA 25.3}
Of His people God says, "They shall be as the stones of a crown, lifted up as an ensign upon His land. For how great is His goodness, and how great is His beauty!" Zech. 9:16, 17. The exaltation of the redeemed will be an eternal testimony to God's mercy. "In the ages to come," He will "show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us through Christ Jesus." "To the intent that . . . unto the principalities and the powers in the heavenly places might be made known . . . the manifold wisdom of God, according to the eternal purpose which He purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord." Eph. 2:7; 3:10, 11, R. V. {DA 26.1}
Through Christ's redeeming work the government of God stands justified. The Omnipotent One is made known as the God of love. Satan's charges are refuted, and his character unveiled. Rebellion can never again arise. Sin can never again enter the universe. Through eternal ages all are secure from apostasy. By love's self-sacrifice, the inhabitants of earth and heaven are bound to their Creator in bonds of indissoluble union. {DA 26.2}
The work of redemption will be complete. In the place where sin abounded, God's grace much more abounds. The earth itself, the very field that Satan claims as his, is to be not only ransomed but exalted. Our little world, under the curse of sin the one dark blot in His glorious creation, will be honored above all other worlds in the universe of God. Here, where the Son of God tabernacled in humanity; where the King of glory lived and suffered and died,--here, when He shall make all things new, the tabernacle of God shall be with men, "and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself shall be with them, and be their God." And through endless ages as the redeemed walk in the light of the Lord, they will praise Him for His unspeakable Gift,-- Immanuel, "God with us."
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yes2truthposted 14 years ago
"The word rest is key."

Yes, rest from Law keeping. Rest from the tyranny of "salvation by works" which, in turn, is the foundation of the blasphemous Christian Religion.

Come all you who are heavy laden with The Law and enter my Sabbath Rest. - No more Sabbath observances - No more Law keeping - only Grace and only here being offered to those who were endeavouring to keep the Law under their own strength and to the best of their ability - no one else i.e. the ten tribes of Israel.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Actually agree with you up to this point.
  
  You must certainly see that the salvation rest of righteousness by faith includes rest from all spiritual burdens. For all humble believers. Not just Jews of Palestine 2000 years ago.
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  yes2truthposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The Lord Jesus Christ is not calling anyone in this age. The Father does the calling not The Son. When are you going to get this basic Truth through your head?
  
  The Bible only tells you what it does, because you do not understand the Bible, nor do you understand the Good News of salvation for all mankind.
  
  I do not read the 'teachings' (blatherings) of men, why would I?
  The teachings of men are for the men of the Christian Religion.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
  10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
  10:29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand.
  10:30 I and [my] Father are one.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  R u for real or just a Jesuit plant trying to confuse true seekers.
  
  You understand enough bible to know that Father and Son work together in redemption.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Read Romans and Galatians and say this again!!!!!!
  
  Grace, my friend does not abolish Moral Law. We need grace because of the moral law.
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  yes2truthposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Judaising, legalistic, satanic BS and I am not your friend!
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Being under grace does not abolish god's holy law.
  
  Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
  6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
  
  Balance the picture. The ordinances and sacrifices were done away. The moral law is standard. We are saved by Jesus, not by law:
  
  Romans
  7:7 What shall we say then? [is] the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
  7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin [was] dead.
  7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
  7:10 And the commandment, which [was ordained] to life, I found [to be] unto death.
  7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew [me].
  7:12 Wherefore the law [is] holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
  7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
  7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
  7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
  7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that [it is] good.
  7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
  7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.
  7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
  7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
  7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
  7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
  7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
  7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
  7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
  
  Chapter 8
  
  8:1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
  8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
  8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
  8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I have referenced texts in romans in another post. But your language and attitude suggests a Jesuit spy at best. No sane Christian would disagree with plain text "I would not have known that sin was sin except through the law".
  
  Read book of Romans. And exercise some manners in your speech.
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  yes2truthposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh yes lets have manners, politeness and niceness while you pervert The Holy Word of God and paper over the cracks with Christian Religious crap and error.
  
  Your referrencing is just intellectual BS.
  
  You are devoid of Spiritual understanding.
  
  Jesuits? Since when has Rome taught salvation for all mankind? You really know nothing.
  
  When are you going to keep all The Law? If you don't you will not inherit The Kingdom of God.
  
  When is your righteousness going to exceed that of the Pharisees?
  
  Since when did morals play a part in Salvation?
  
  Your Spiritual blindness is complete.
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glendoncabaposted 14 years ago
How does jesus describe the remnant of Revelation? Not Jews, the end-time church.

They obey Gods commandments and have testimony of Jesus. Two work together. Revelation 12.
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  yes2truthposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No one who his saved obeys anyone or anything. Obeying goes with The Law. Grace goes with freedom - freedom to choose. The Truth sets us free.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Free to choose jesus or reject Him. he said "If you love me keep my commandments."
  
  faith without works is dead as make Money said.
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Make Moneyposted 14 years ago
I added one more line to my post above for your benefit yes2truth. My above post was meant for anyone that wants to read it, but particularly for glendoncaba, who is a good man that usually speaks with charity.
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  yes2truthposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Some are called, others are called and chosen. Those who are only called go astray and form their own ideas and this includes interpreting Holy Scriptures wholly erroneously.
  
  You and your friend are in the body of religion, not the body of the Church or the body of Christ. Those in the Church are likeminded and I could no more be likeminded with your friend than jump over the moon.
  
  "Who is a good man that speaks with charity"
  
  He speaks nothing but error and with syrupy yuk in order to make it sound convincing. No man can be good who perverts God's Holy Word.
  
  Back to the drawing board for you sir.
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marcofratelliposted 14 years ago
"Atheism is a non-prophet organization". lol
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Make Moneyposted 14 years ago
Right you are marcofratelli.
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Gabriel Wilsonposted 14 years ago
It `s not that I do not want to hear about the bible and Jesus , but where do you come into the picture ? The last I read was he promised life after death , invitation of love and life escaped me some what .
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  Gabriel Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  thank you gabriel.
  
  I'm just a piece of clay telling you that i believe in the good news of jesus because it is the power of God unto salvation.
  
  Jesus calls all humanity to life. he says "I am the way, the truth, and the life..."
  
  And the apostle writes "The wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life."
  
  1 John 5:12 He who has the Son has life...
  
  Galatians Fruit of spirit love, joy, peace...
  
  Call to new life with hope, inner peace, and inner joy.
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  Gabriel Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  Gabriel Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  Well you do quote alot . Do you really believe everything you read ( I am not being underhand , this is an honest question ) but , well there is alot written that is hard to understand yet alone believe . The thing is if you believe one thing in those verses well you have to believe them all , no point quoting what suits the day is there !
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  yes2truthposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Precisely, for that is just what you do!
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for your response. I would be very happy to discuss which of the above quote about Jesus you think I am not being sincere with. I do believe the Bible. What do u mean by suits the day.
  
  This thread is a very simple thread. Just writing about invitation to Jesus.
  
  Really God who calls, we are just messengers. My task is to tell you about it. The bible commands us, jesus commands us to go tell the good news.
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  Gabriel Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  Gabriel Wilsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  yes2truthposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The Bible doesn't command me to do anything, for I am free under His Grace.
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  yes2truthposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You may believe, but you believe in the Christian Religion, not The Lord Jesus Christ.
  
  Nowhere are we required to invite anyone and none of the Scriptures you have quoted support that. What you do, like all blaspheming mainstream Christians do, is read your Christian Religious agenda into The Holy Word of God.
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yes2truthposted 14 years ago
Romans 10:14 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

This cannot happen unless The Father is calling them first.

How many times do I have quote these verses before you blasphemers understand:

John 6:44 (KJV) No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:65 (KJV) And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father
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Gabriel Wilsonposted 14 years ago
I think inner peace and inner joy will do for now . cheers .
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Make Moneyposted 14 years ago
Glendon I think we both just replied to yes2truth's same post basically the same way.

By the way I like that SDA commentary on "All Israel". The only things that I would add is that the apostles and the first 3,000 Christians from the first Pentecost were Israelites, Galatians 3 says "And if you be Christ's, then are you the seed of Abraham, heirs according to the promise" and that in the end days, during the 42 months of tribulation God will send the two witnesses to Jerusalem for the conversion of the Jews to the faith of Jesus Christ (Rev.11).

Maybe we should be considering how to bring the body of Christ together as one, like the Bible says we are to be seeing we agree on most fundamental points.

Edit: Believe me when I say I didn't read your last post before posting this one. I didn't realize it was a Protestant thread. Do you think it should be separated like that? Sure, to a discussion about the Holy Eucharist.
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  yes2truthposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  All very fine if you were part of the body of Christ, but unfortunately for you, you are not. You are part of the body of the Christian Religion - a 21st century Pharisee.
  
  There will be weeping and wailing and the gnashing of teeth when all you counterfeiters find out what's in store for you. Not a pretty sight watching rabid dogs gnash their teeth!!
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  To be honest Mike I don't mean to be exclusive, guess i was just tired of that fellow pushing his views without any letup. And he pulls verses for proof and ignores context.
  
  of course we can talk about the Lord's Supper.
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  Make Moneyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think we should wait until he goes away seeing it is a very sacred topic to discuss. I wouldn't want him to be trashing it.
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  yes2truthposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I am not going away for wherever you blasphemers are I will oppose you and expose you for what you are - Hypocrites; nests of vipers; men with throats like open graves and sons of the Devil.
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  Make Moneyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  With some of your post for a while there I actually thought you were a Christian.
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  yes2truthposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  A man with your religious credentials wouldn't know how to identify a Christian.
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  Sanctus Vesaniaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, but, you don't believe in the Eurachrist, or baby baptism, or the Rosary. You don't believe in doing weird, arcana rituals.
  
  That MUST mean you aren't a Christian! (Sarcasm)
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  yes2truthposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "You don't believe in doing weird, arcana rituals."
  
  Do you mean bobbing and weaving? I wonder if Mike Tyson is a Roman Catholic
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  Sanctus Vesaniaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Is that an arcane ritual, or just some sort of weird dance?
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  yes2truthposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think it could be, especially when they touch their noses then their belly button and then each shoulder. Very weird indeed.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Hubpages adm could you please close this thread. These two guys (2truth & vesania) need to stop this now. Free speech should respect community and culture even in dissent.
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  atomswifeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There is therefor now no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus!
  
  yes2truth you are accusing fellow believers and it is satan who is the accuser of the brethren!
  
  I think you need some time in prayer.
  
  The Holy Spirit does not act, behave nor instruct in the way you are. It does not condemn!
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Are you a prophet?
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  atomswifeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not in the sense of mans perception of a prophet, no. But I believe those who have the Holy Spirit have the gift of prophecy.
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So, you are a prophet in the holy spirit sense, but not mans perception?
  
  Makes perfect sense!
  
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  atomswifeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Of course it would not to you
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  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  lol, I just said it makes sense to me.
  
  You are the prophet through the holy spirit! Power to the holy spirit.
  
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  yes2truthposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  They're not fellow believers at all, nor are they my brethren they are 21st century Pharisees i.e. men of religion.
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atomswifeyposted 14 years ago
A real invitation is so simple, sweet and loving

:For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.

This scripture takes us back to the Old Testament and the garden where man was given this same choice:
Life eternal with God or death and eternal separation from Him. (Two trees) You can read more about the tree of life in Revelation as well. Read the letters to the churches.
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  yes2truthposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "A real invitation is so simple, sweet and loving."
  
  Yet more sentimental syrupy Hollywood non-biblical yuk.
  
  "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life."
  
  And this cannot happen unless The Father calls him or her to His Son.
  
  "This scripture takes us back to the Old Testament and the garden where man was given this same choice:"
  
  With the fall man lost his 'freewill', not that he ever had it because Adam & Eve were always going to fail and fall in the garden, for The Lord was THE LAMB SLAIN BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD!
  
  This means Adam & Eve did not really make any choice. Since the fall mankind has never had freewill. Man does the Devil's will - period - especially mainstream Christians!!
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  atomswifeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Really? Then why have the TWO trees in the center of the garden? That is clearly a choice. why do the scriptures clearly indicate that choice?
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  yes2truthposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So that no man or woman can ever claim to have any excuse and no blame can be levied at The Godhead. Everything is to the Glory of The Godhead.
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Sanctus Vesaniaposted 14 years ago
Romans 8:18-21 18For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

19For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

20For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

1 Peter 1:19-21 19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

21Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
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atomswifeyposted 14 years ago
4Yet I hold this against you: You have forsaken your first love. 5Remember the height from which you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place. 6But you have this in your favor: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

7He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

revelation 2:4-7

Again we see where the tree of life again is revealed to us and it is again given in a choice.
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Sanctus Vesaniaposted 14 years ago
First - congratulations for once again dancing around scripture. *golf clap* bravo! Bravo!

Second - Those verses are a part of the letter to the church of Ephsus.

2 Revelation 1-7 1Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;

2I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

3And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.

4Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

5Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

6But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.

7He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

You see the real kicker here? This church was patient, could not tolerate evil, they have tried those claiming to be apostles, but are liars; they have laboured in Christ, and had not fainted; and they hated the deeds of the Nicolaitans.

BUT God also condemned them because they left their first love, which is Jesus Christ.

Third - What choice? Again, you need to look at scripture (and I do mean LOOK at it, not glance at it, and run away from it like a snake.)

But since you seem to absolutely terrified of scripture, and because yes2truth has posted the verses about a million times, and you ignored them.

1. Jesus Christ is the only way to obtain salvation
2. But, Jesus Christ is only saving those that his Father has called him to save. (in this age.)
3. For those that are chosen, they are given the power to overcome.
4. If by some off chance, one of the chosen decides to seek after a religion (leaving their first love) then they need to repent.
5. If they were really chosen (and not just called) then, because of the faith and grace of Christ, they will repent.
6. They will be given the chance to eat from the Tree of Life.
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glendoncabaposted 14 years ago
Scott wherever you are you must be laughing your head off. The few atheists or agnostics who stopped by were quite in character but they pale in comparison to the rude believers.

Freedom of choice and of access, the evil fruit all over again, if you get my drift. Man, by nature, has a bent for conflict and chaos. Ego. We need a Saviour. We need Jesus. And we need humility in dealing with fellow believers.

And there is none so dangerous as the one who thinks that because his thinking is "right" he should disrespect all other Christians. A sick attitude in religion or philosophy. And I see theists and atheists are guilty of it. Deja vu.

Any conservative scholar in the gallery want to jump in and help.
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glendoncabaposted 14 years ago
A real invitation to Jesus will recognise the role of reason and will. Christ does not force, He invites "come unto Me..."

To know Jesus is to know the Father. John 14:9. John 1:18.

Jesus reveals the Father Hebrews 1:1-3

Man cannot save, only God can save.

"For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life" (Rom. 5:10). God makes the provision for humanity. Thank God in name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

Come unto Me...He still calls us in an age weary with troubles, burdens, and cares. He calls us away from legalism, away from idols, away from human effort to seek peace.

He calls us to a life of faith, hope, love.

Yes, also a life of hardship, sacrifice, persecution.

But He has promised us that we will be overcomers.
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Maira818posted 14 years ago
i do not know about anybody else, but i have free will. i can choose to go to the beach on a warm day, i can choose to eat pizza or hamburger, i can choose to work or not to work. i can choose to listen to music or turn the tv on etc....
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  yes2truthposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  True, but you are are still a slave to sin and you live within the fallen condition so, by default, you live beneath the umbrella of the knowledge of the tree of good and evil.
  
  Under this 'tree' (the devil's tree) you can 'choose' to do good or 'choose' to do evil, but that makes no difference, for you are still fallen and you are still a slave to sin and therefore not free, so you do not have freewill.
  
  I hope this explains your and mankind's predicament.
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
Oh oh! We have us a real live zealot! Lovely!
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  yes2truthposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, just a man of The Truth. Offended your worldly liberal or libertine sensitivities have I? Great, that means I am on the right track.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Nah, it takes more than the hate filled ramblings of fundamentalists to offend me.
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  Sanctus Vesaniaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  He just doesn't like it when ANYONE has ANY type of beliefs. To think, he could be doing something else; posting somewhere else, but instead he decides to stay here.
  
  I'm thinking he's secretly a masochist, and that's why he stays here. Either that, or he's trying to save us.
  
  I'm going with the former.
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  yes2truthposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You're probably right.
  
  It takes all sorts. Now if he went off bugging that silly Grundy woman, his time would then be well spent. Perhaps he'll take the hint!!??
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  Sanctus Vesaniaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Naah, he's only happy when he's ramming his beliefs down our throats.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And why would I bug Pam? She has more knowledge in her hair than you have in your brain. She is also a talented writer who likes facts.
  As for ramming beliefs down peoples throats, i will leave that to the loonie group!
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  yes2truthposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  See what I mean. They always say it takes one to know one. All she has is Rockefeller/Murdoch media brainwashing. A very nasty complaint it is too.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Rude to call people silly in a discussion like this. You r bad for this thread. R u a spy sent here to distract from the core values of this thread.
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
No Paul, truth is subjective.
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
As you yourself are.
Take away the book and what do you have?
No religion and no god of religion.
The bible is taken literally by religious believers, they just pick out the bits they need out of the hundreds of options like you do to support your beliefs.
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Sanctus Vesaniaposted 14 years ago
Ahh yes, free speech should respect you, your culture, your values, and your ethics; all others be damned. If you truly believed in free speech you wouldn't be whining about how y2t and I are ruining this thread.

You made a thread, it got criticized, and rightfully so; but instead of actually thinking about the criticism, chewing on it, thinking it over, and then coming to a conclusion; you danced around the issue.

This calls to mind an excellent short passage from 'The Marriage of Heaven and Hell' by the poet 'William Blake'

So the Angel said: 'thy phantasy has imposed upon me, & thou oughtest to be ashamed.'
I answer'd: 'we impose on one another, & it is but lost time to converse with you whose works are only Analytics.'
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The air of arrogance and rudeness does not allow for any civil discourse with the two hijackers.
  
  "Actually thinking...". Several persons have contributed thoughtful biblical responses, but you guys are moving in one direction. You have made your point. You don't want any one to tell the world to come to Jesus. OK. We believe otherwise, based on the convincing biblical evidence. Acts and all the epistles were about taking the gospel to the world, beginning with Jews.
  
  Gospel is Good News about Jesus that we share with fellowmen. God does we calling, we are His mouthpiece. So we are the angels in Revelation taking the message around the world. Go check the etymology of messengers and angels. The entire NT is about God coming in search of man through Christian church.
  
  Why spend an entire thread getting hung up on semantics, with such a rude tone. Where is your voice of love, of mercy, of salvation. Do you believe that Messiah came and died on a cross for your sins. Calvary is loudest invitation of all.
  
  A favourite hymn says it best: "There is a fountain filled with blood drawn from Immanuel's veins, and sinners plunged beneath that flood lose all their guilty stains.
  
  The dying thief rejoiced to see, the fountain in his day, and there may I though vile as he, wash all my sins away."
  
  To your arguments I submit the evidence of Calvary. Go there and beg for pardon for pain to blessed Christ with thuggery posing as religion.
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  Sanctus Vesaniaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Rude? No, I just call them how I see them. Your little quip about thuggery and religion really proves how little you bother to read. y2t and I follow no religion; and before you start, following Jesus Christ is not a religion.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Reread the edited post and go to calvary. If u r a real believer and not an agent.
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  Sanctus Vesaniaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Why should I a believer and follower of Christ do as YOU tell me to do?
  
  I am a believer, but not in your fantasies.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Because the old rugged cross has cured sin and pride for centuries. All of us, me too, must look up to the dying Lamb and see that we nailed Him there.
  
  Then fall in humility and confess our pride and hardness of heart.
  
  Then go tell the world Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ is coming again. Hardened fishermen were persuaded by evidence, not fantasies.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  posted again because of edit.
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
Great! An on going battle between people who read the same book.
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glendoncabaposted 14 years ago
if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us and cleanse us of all unrighteousness.
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Confessions relieve you a bit of the burden you carry but does not take way the karmic consequences of your actions.
  
  You cant tell a priest hey I killed this guy and then expect everything to be fine.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  In the spiritual realm the mediation of Jesus Christ justifies the sinner (pronounce him righteous as if he never sinned). Not by works, a gift of God.
  
  Justification. All there in book of romans.
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry it does not, one cannot murder to or rape then say Jesus is the greatest and expect to be saved.
  Look how holy I am I say Jesus is the greatest is only fooling one self.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  wonderful, this wold be presumptuous.
  
  This is why law and grace go together. We are saved by grace but expected to still obey law so that our works may demonstrate our faith. Many modern Christians say that law abolished. Law does not save us, but the standard of ethics, since law based on love for God and man.
  
  Thank you for poointing out that faith and works go hand in hand.
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  In the kingdom of men we have to deal with consequences. In kingdom of God Jesus dealt with consequences at cross. Hence
  
  "amazing grace how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me".
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  He couldn't believe he was being crucified and so he ASKED GOD " why have you forsaken me"
  
  Have you gained enlightenment, have you been one with god?
  Saved - in what way? By saying Jesus is the only son of god?
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  glendoncabaposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No by grace through faith in Jesus.
  
  Saved not by enlightenment but by grace of god.
  
  Does not abolish obedience to moral law.
  
  Greatest command is love. Love Lord. Love neighbour.
  
  If keep on sinning presumptuously then we step out of realm of salvation and back to realm of death.
  
  Faith in Jesus, and desire to obey Him necessary. Hence need for Holy Spirit.
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glendoncabaposted 14 years ago
For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.

(Dont you see, the entire bible is a call to Jesus.

But how will they hear without a preacher).

And the best sermon BTW is the life you live, including the love you show when you talk to people, including this forum.
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.
  
  This is a false statement , the reason many Christians have not understood god or the prophets.
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
Great tune, but the lyrics don't do it for me.
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The spirit is within you and all masters or prophets inspire you to find it.
  
  "Worship me in spirit" Jesus
  reply report

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