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'Atheists'---Imagine, if you will, that the Bible's true.....

  1. profile image0
    Brenda Durhamposted 7 years ago

    IF you could believe, even for a moment, that the Bible's really true,  that God Almighty is All-Powerful, the God of Love, Judgement, Salvation, Author of all that's good,
    and that Satan is the epitome of evil....that, in the end, he loses the fight in rebellion against God,

    That you have an immortal soul that will one day go to Heaven or an everlasting lake of fire, 

    What, and who, then, would you choose?

    1. DogSiDaed profile image59
      DogSiDaedposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      It doesn't matter in the long run. Heaven in the short term perhaps, but an eternity in paradise is hell smile

    2. Jerami profile image77
      Jeramiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I agree with what you have said.
          I do not agree with the 10,000 diffrent interpretations of what is written in scripture. If what the bible says is true,  Why can't we  believe what it says without interpretating it to say something diffrent.

    3. Arthur Fontes profile image89
      Arthur Fontesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Big black shape with eyes of fire
      Telling people their desire
      Satan's sitting there, he's smiling
      Watches those flames get higher and higher
      Oh no, no, please God help me!

      Is it the end, my friend?
      Satan's coming 'round the bend
      People running 'cause they're scared
      The people better go and beware!
      No, no, please, no!
      Black Sabbath

    4. profile image60
      (Q)posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      That's a fair question to ask and deserves a fair answer.

      The problem is that there are too many answers and too many explanations to consider.

      The first one to consider is whether or not one is going to scrutinize the bible or simply accept it entirely on faith.

      Once one begins scrutinizing the bible, they also have to take into consideration other religions and other gods, past and present, the problems with the supernatural, miracles and extraordinary events that contradict physics, biology, cosmology, to name a few, the fact that mankind was driven primarily on myths and superstitions centuries ago.



      There simply is nothing at all occurring in the world today that would agree with those ideas, none whatsoever. There's just us and nature.



      If one was to believe in a soul and that soul had a chance to burn in a lake of fire for eternity if a god so deemed, then it would be far better off not believing in a soul then risk having to roast for an eternity. Going to heaven isn't worth the trouble.

      That's a fairly easy choice to make.

      1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
        Ron Montgomeryposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Before any of that, you have to decide what "The Bible" is.  The "devine word of God" is the result of centuries of careless, (or sometimes deliberate), bad transaltion, political influence, and creative editing.  Even today's versions don't agree on such basics as the ten commandments.

    5. Dgerrimea profile image80
      Dgerrimeaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      After a brief glance at the responses to this thread, it looks like a lot of unbelievers (in Christianity) are having a hard time suspending their disbelief. It seems to me that anyone who genuinely believed the Bible was true would then go on to accept Jesus Christ as their personal saviour and enter into Heaven. This is what I would do if I believed in the Bible, but there just isn't any good reason to believe.

      1. AdsenseStrategies profile image73
        AdsenseStrategiesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        The argument defeats itself from the outset, in any case. For God to have created a Lake of Fire for regular Joes like you and me, who try to mind their own business, and sometimes spread a little cheer when they can, he must be a pretty mean dude. And nothing like the guy who used to hang out with lepers and prostitutes, and children. At which point the whole thing falls apart.

        1. Dgerrimea profile image80
          Dgerrimeaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          It's hard to suspend your disbelief when your disbelief makes so much sense isn't it? tongue

        2. TheGlassSpider profile image81
          TheGlassSpiderposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          exactly...which is why someone who cares to take the time to find out what hell actually IS will find that the Bible does NOT mention a place where HUMANS are tortured eternally. *slaps forehead* I can't STAND it when Christians don't read their own book.

          1. AdsenseStrategies profile image73
            AdsenseStrategiesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            You point is a good one

            1. mohitmisra profile image60
              mohitmisraposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Jesus has uplifted many humans to saints. those who are one with god the cosmic force or spirit, the intelligence that creates and destroys universes.

            2. mohitmisra profile image60
              mohitmisraposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Jesus has uplifted many humans to saints. those who are one with god the cosmic force or spirit, the intelligence that creates and destroys universes.This intelligence man needs to merge with through meditation.

              His words are beautiful. smile

            3. TheGlassSpider profile image81
              TheGlassSpiderposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Thank you!

              I find it appalling that the Christian church has thrived for thousands of years on the basis of blasphemous filth that Jesus (and others in the Bible) DID NOT teach. It's no wonder that people like earnestshub and cagsil think God's psychotic and religion is a business: Because that's how they portray themselves AND God.

              Then so-called "Christians" (god it makes me ill to be lumped in with them just because I believe in Christ) want to come on here making inflammatory remarks about whose going to burn in a lake of fire and who needs to be saved, but then will turn around and tell you Jesus Christ died to save us from our sins. God how can people be so stupid and blind?

              1. AdsenseStrategies profile image73
                AdsenseStrategiesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Yep, I am sure I'd have taken more time to examine the depiction of Jesus and weighed it up more carefully if it weren't for the firestorm of vitriol going both ways (and to which I contribute sad ) regarding religion.

                Jesus was never straight about the whole Messiah, Son of God, Salvation, etc thing, but always dodged the issue. And how the Old Testament got mixed up in this I'll never know.

                And we could do without the apostles Paul and John giving their two cents' worth... though Paul did say one thing worth saying... morality is written on our hearts, ie., the spirit of the law is more important than the letter (two quotes in one actually)... too bad some "Christians" missed that bit...

                1. TheGlassSpider profile image81
                  TheGlassSpiderposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  There's a guy running around the forums (I'm sure you've seen) making silly statements that can only be paraphrased as "being better than the Bible." You see how the forums react to him?

                  If Jesus had run around saying he was the Son of God, the Messiah sent to save everyone, I contend he would have met with the same fate. Would it not be better to merely BE who and what one IS, and let actions speak louder than words--as they do in men's hearts anyway?

                  1. AdsenseStrategies profile image73
                    AdsenseStrategiesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    I'm Brian and so's my wife

              2. profile image61
                The Paulposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Oh, sure, Christianity is all love and fluff and cuddles if you throw out the parts that are murder and torture and hatred.  The whole thing becomes a lot less offensive if you do that.

                But it isn't exactly rational.

                The biblical basis for Hell is sketchy, sure, but it's not as if that's the only terrible thing in there.  It does describe a god who creates mankind imperfect, then insists they beg forgiveness for the imperfection he inflicted upon them, and he does regularly engage in deal out horrific punishments to humankind for those imperfections.  That flood business, for instance.

                He also commands a few genocides, forces the Egyptians to enslave the Jews so that he can show off how bad ass he is, inflicting horrors on the Egyptians as punishment for the crimes he forced them commit...

                ...the god of the bible is not a nice guy, even when you take Hell out of the equation.

                So one has to wonder where you're getting the idea of this god of fluff and cuddles.

                1. AdsenseStrategies profile image73
                  AdsenseStrategiesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Exactly by throwing out most of the Bible. As for God, I wasn't talking about God, I was talking about Jesus... who, as I suggested, was very cagey about the whole Son-of-God thing anyway.
                  In any case, welcome to the forums smile

                2. TheGlassSpider profile image81
                  TheGlassSpiderposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  I agree, God is NOT fluff and cuddles. Neither are we, and we're made in His image.

                  Check it out: The commandment does NOT say thou shalt not KILL. It says, thou shalt not MURDER. I'm sure everyone will think I'm just the most horrific person who ever lived, but you know what? Sometimes, there's a reason to kill something, and sometimes when it happens, it's not murder. And if there is a God (I am intelligent enough to admit that I might be wrong in my BELIEF), I believe He's capable of knowing, better than we are, when something needs to be put out of its misery.

                  What do you do with a weed in your garden? You kill it. What do you do with poisonous insect in your house? You kill it. A wild animal tearing through your neighborhood: kill it.

                  On a separate, but related note: The laws of God are good not because God says they are, but in an of themselves. The law is conducive to life, physically, emotionally, and spiritually--for all of humanity and the earth. If you don't believe it--attempt to live by those laws to the best of your ability (you don't have to accept God or Jesus to do this, just look at the laws like a list of health rules, particularly the ones to do with cleanliness, eating, and clothes, etc.), and take note of the very real health and mood benefits you'll notice (even if you can only manage to live up to some of them). People who are disobeying the laws are LITERALLY bringing death upon themselves; this is the reason "the wages of sin is death." Not because God's angry. When the Lord ordered the destruction of Sodom and Gomorra, he wasn't doing it out of hatred--he did it so that those people wouldn't desecrate themselves anymore, so that there was SOMETHING left of their spirits to save at the time of resurrection. Look it up.

                  In order to give the miraculous gift of free will, which is what allows each of us to be a unique, creative individual--God of necessity introduced evil into the world. He wants a family (us and the rest of creation) who could learn the difference between good and evil/right and wrong for themselves, and who would ultimately choose His path out of love for creation and its Creator.

                  If you cannot see Him now, He does not condemn you. God does not require that you believe in Him now. Later, he will-and the Bible talks about this...But later, He will reveal himself fully, and there will be NO debate, because it will be as obvious as the fact that the sky is blue. God is looking for the people who can see him NOW; He has a particular job for them. In many instances that are confusing in the Bible, it is THAT GROUP OF PEOPLE to whom God or Jesus is speaking. That's not everyone, and He KNOWS that. When He's found those people (who can see Him now), He will establish an undeniable law of peace. Creation has not yet ended. The finished result will be worth the wait.

                  Yes. God has been angry, and so have we. People have been quite maddening in His sight, and have truly sought to destroy ourselves even in spirit. Yes, he's completely destroyed civilizations, punished the Israelites harshly, and made the ignorance of Pharoah picture for all the world to see, but careful examination will show that He did these things as a result of interaction with, and the choices of, the people with whom he was working at the time. God allows us-LIKE ANY PARENT MUST--to make our own mistakes from which to learn, even when he knows we're being dumb as hell.

                  He is not interested in torturing people.

                  *sigh* I feel very sad now. sad 

                  These are only my beliefs. It would take a very long time, and a very thorough exegetical paper to show you why I feel this way, and I have to get to work soon. Believers: Pay attention to what the atheists are saying! they are asking questions that can be answered, and they are asking VALID questions. If you cannot answer them, you haven't learned enough of your Bible or your God...who has a name that isn't "God." Pray about it. Get a Strong's Concordance.

                  The Bible has been mutilated by man-made churches; this is historical fact. But some of what they have removed and most of what they have changed can be found. Learn a little about Hebrew and the Jewish calendar, this will help you follow a time line that eventually coincides with secular history. Get out some maps and check out the ancient cities.

                  God says: "Reason with  me." in Isaiah. Do it.

                  Anyway, please accept the above rant with absolutely no disrespect meant to anyone, or sarcasm. These are merely my beliefs-perhaps they'll touch someone, somewhere, in some way.

                  God's blessings ARE with you all. smile

                  --Spider

                  There is nothing anyone can take from me that actually belongs to me...that includes my life.

                  1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                    Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    They touched me.

                    Is is this sort of worthless nonsense that persuaded me there is no god when I was about 11.  God was angry? Dear me. How arrogant of you to imagine a god that gets angry. What a pathetic god. Sad, pathetic and no better than me.

                    Surely you could imagine a better god than this? Oh - that is right - you are going with the bronze age sheep herder's god. wink

                    Reason with yourself first. Who made who in who's image again?

                  2. profile image61
                    The Paulposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Glass Spider:  All of this is going a little off topic, the original post invites readers to imagine the god of the bible exists, I think actually doing so quickly leads to the conclusion the god of the bible does not exist.  You argue that the bible is distorted and can't be trusted as a source of information about god, so you're not really contending with that...

                    ...but I take issue with this analogy between any sort of god and mortal parents.

                    If God is truly worthy of being called God then it must be much greater, in at least some respects, than humans.  If God is analogous to a human parent, in what way is it greater?

                    If you truly love someone, in any sense, you may think it best to allow them the freedom to make grievous mistakes and learn from them, but you will at least attempt to warn them against those mistakes first, and if they are going to kill or permanently harm themselves you will take action to prevent it.

                    The touching the hot stove analogy is popular.  Sooner or later most children grab a hot cookie sheet and learn the hard way not to do it.  Some parents might even stand by and let that happen if their warnings to the contrary have been ignored several times.

                    But no parent who loves their child would ever turn a burner on at full power, let it get red-skin-melting-hot and then allow their child to touch it.  If they did the state would probably seize their child, as society would regard them as unfit to be a parent at all. 

                    This is the sort of thing that God seems to always be doing as a "loving parent" who is "teaching us an important lesson," in these God as a parent analogies.

                    The majority of ordinary, mortal parents can prevent their children from inflicting that kind of harm on themselves.  Why can't (or won't) a god?

    6. profile image0
      Will Bensonposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Brenda -

      I'm sure you had good intentions with this thread - hoping to save someone from eternal torment. Please understand that many of the "atheists" who post here have been tormented in the past by well meaning but ignorant clergy who were also trying to "save their soul." Believe me, I know too well.

      It doesn't matter what the bible threatens if the reader doesn't believe it. Yes, I believe there is great comfort to be had in spiritual beliefs but many posters here have had that taken from them by acts of cruelty in the Lord's name.

      In my short time here I don't think that I've seen anyone convince anyone else to change their beliefs by posting in this forum. The truth will always become evident in due time. There really is no need to argue one side or the other if one believes in their own truth.

      Sorry if I got preachy but I hope you understand. Take care.

      1. profile image0
        Brenda Durhamposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        You didn't get too preachy!
        But of course I do disagree that "it doesn't matter" because of unbelief.   The spirit/soul is the eternal part of a person, and it matters immensely.
        And there's another thing about the Bible----what good is having The Gospel if one doesn't "preach" it?

        However, my questions have been asked, and answered by many, so I'm willing to let it go for now.  Whoever wishes to continue discussing is for sure welcome to.
        I'm actually gonna go do a search to see if there's a specific "Christian Discussion" thread around here anywhere;  if not, I wanna start one....most Christians love a good discussion on the Bible, etc.....

    7. Diskobolos profile image60
      Diskobolosposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Myself I guess.smile

    8. Pr0metheus profile image61
      Pr0metheusposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Your problem is relying on a book that is just a bunch of stories for proof.

      What about those of us who believe in a higher consciousness (a god, although not how the judeo-christian beliefs define god) and we don't believe much of the bible at all?

      A place where everything is 'good' and nothing goes wrong provides no contrast to make the good feel good... living in a great place isn't very great if you can't realize how great it is.

  2. Misha profile image75
    Mishaposted 7 years ago

    You mean we are supposed to choose an invisible psychotic super butcher? Not THAT gullible, thank you smile

    1. profile image0
      cosetteposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      omg haha! big_smile that sounds like a subversive superhero!

    2. kirstenblog profile image75
      kirstenblogposted 7 years ago in reply to this
      1. mohitmisra profile image60
        mohitmisraposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Do you see your breath ?

        1. AdsenseStrategies profile image73
          AdsenseStrategiesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Depends on the temperature

        2. mohitmisra profile image60
          mohitmisraposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Do you see your brains?

          1. mohitmisra profile image60
            mohitmisraposted 7 years ago in reply to this
            1. tantrum profile image60
              tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              I am my mind, so yes, I see it

              1. mohitmisra profile image60
                mohitmisraposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                What part of you do you see when you think of the mind?

                1. Arthur Fontes profile image89
                  Arthur Fontesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  The mind sees as well as thinks.  The eyes are simply the optical lenses our mind uses to interpret its surroundings.

                  1. mohitmisra profile image60
                    mohitmisraposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    She is able to see her mind so I was asking her which part?

          2. Ron Montgomery profile image60
            Ron Montgomeryposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Hopefully not, sounds painful.

          3. AdsenseStrategies profile image73
            AdsenseStrategiesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Hehehe. An enlightened response if ever I saw one. Imagine Buddha saying that to someone...

            1. tantrum profile image60
              tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              lol

            2. profile image61
              The Paulposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Theists like to accuse atheists of lacking imagination, but every time they do they seem to reveal a lack of imagination on their own part.  What if the bible was real, what if the omnipotent, insecure, tyranical god of judgement it describes really existed...

              Easy to imagine.  The world would be different than it is, though.  That's how I know that god isn't out there.

              Makes me wonder if theists can actually imagine the god they claim to worship.

              ...

              "Do you see your brains?"

              How do you think people came to believe their skulls contained brains?  Did an angel made of light and fire descend from the sky and tell them?  Did they just get a feeling deep down in their hearts that let them "know" their skulls contain brains?  Was there a prophetic vision, do you think?

              These attempts to compare gods to things we can't easily see all fail.  All these other things we can detect in some way.  Same goes for love, beauty, whatever other feel-good words you'd like to dredge up.  Believing in a god is not reasonable or rational.  If someone you knew believed a person loves them and truly had no evidence for such (and in fact evidence to the contrary, as is the case for most gods) you would be very concerned about this person, worried for them, fearful they were not in a right state of mind.

              1. tantrum profile image60
                tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                agree!

  3. IntimatEvolution profile image83
    IntimatEvolutionposted 7 years ago

    Since you kept going on and on.....

    I think you've asked too much of our Atheist friends.  I mean seriously, you should read your standards with objectivity.

    1. IntimatEvolution profile image83
      IntimatEvolutionposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      See what kind of answers you are getting...  What else did you expect?  Intelligent conversation or an imaginary play date?

      Worthless thread topic.  There is no ending or beginning and there is no right or wrong.neutral

      1. KCC Big Country profile image83
        KCC Big Countryposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I thought the same thing when I read the OP.  Was this supposed to be new enlightening info that would make atheists suddenly think "omg, I hadn't thought of it that way!"?   LMAO

        1. IntimatEvolution profile image83
          IntimatEvolutionposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Yeah, this is so stupid.  What the hell was this person trying to get to anyways? Besides all the illogical mayhem and back and forth bantering?  I really get tired of seeing this kind of conversation in the HubPage forums.  It is just a stupid two sided mess.  No one has the right answers.   You'd think that people posting this crap would have hubs to write, that were worth something more than this....neutral

          1. cheaptrick profile image74
            cheaptrickposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Come on y'all! Lighten up!
            The lady said IMAGINE....

  4. Colebabie profile image59
    Colebabieposted 7 years ago

    Let's just say that the bible was true. That all of the stories, the people... all existed. That we are all descendants from Adam and Eve. That Jesus was the son of God and God's words and rules were laid out in that book. And that whatever God said was what we were supposed to do. And if we didn't do it we'd end up in hell...

    I guess I'd be going to hell then.

  5. KCC Big Country profile image83
    KCC Big Countryposted 7 years ago

    I'm a big girl, I'll take my chances on the Lake o' Fire!

  6. profile image0
    Brenda Durhamposted 7 years ago

    Thanks for the responses.
    I find it interesting.

    1. tantrum profile image60
      tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Really?
      don't you find them obvious ?

      1. profile image0
        Brenda Durhamposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Yes, at first glance.
        Still, interesting.

        1. tantrum profile image60
          tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I'm sure you're happy you aren't going to meet us in Heaven !
          lol

  7. Arthur Fontes profile image89
    Arthur Fontesposted 7 years ago

    Where do bad folks go when they die
    They don't go to heaven where the angels fly
    Go to a lake of fire and fry
    See them again 'till the Fourth of July

    Meatpuppets

    1. cheaptrick profile image74
      cheaptrickposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Hi Arthur,you is sooo silly sometimes!
      That's why I read your Hubs!
      Everybody knows they don't come back on the 4Th...
      They come back on Halloween and want All your Candy...
      Those little Buggers...

      1. Arthur Fontes profile image89
        Arthur Fontesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Thanks I try to keep it real.

  8. Colebabie profile image59
    Colebabieposted 7 years ago

    What confuses me is why making a decision about the unknown is so important?

  9. tantrum profile image60
    tantrumposted 7 years ago

    I'd rather go to Hell.

    Eternity in bliss is too boring for me !

    1. DogSiDaed profile image59
      DogSiDaedposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      See you there! Remember to bring your sunglasses! cool

      1. tantrum profile image60
        tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        and the 65 sun block
        lol

    2. cheaptrick profile image74
      cheaptrickposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I'm right there with you Yum Yum:)

  10. Jerami profile image77
    Jeramiposted 7 years ago

    We have been understanding our own wisdom for so long that we have forgotten how to read.

    1. Colebabie profile image59
      Colebabieposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Oh I can read, I can also think too.

  11. Arthur Fontes profile image89
    Arthur Fontesposted 7 years ago

    welcome to the abandoned land
    come on in child, take my hand
    here there's no work or play
    only one bill to pay
    there's just five words to say
    as you go down, down, down
    you're gonna burn in hell
    Twisted Sister

  12. Jerami profile image77
    Jeramiposted 7 years ago

    Sure you can think.   The problem is that we have learned to trust our own understanding for so long that we trust nothing else.  Read all that you can.  but then what do you trust?

    1. KCC Big Country profile image83
      KCC Big Countryposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Written words are nothing but someone else's thoughts.  We all enjoy reading other's thoughts.  Reading other's thoughts expands our own thought process, nothing more.  To take a written word from ANYONE as gospel is foolish.  You should ONLY ever trust your OWN thoughts when making your own life choices.

  13. Colebabie profile image59
    Colebabieposted 7 years ago

    Who? I trust myself, but I also trust others. And trust, as you know, is something that is earned and not easily.

    What? Occasionally my instincts. My intuition, my heart, and my head.

    Can I read? Yes. Can I think? Yes. Do I have the free will to make my own decisions? Yes.

    These qualities God apparently allowed me to have, no? So why care so much if someone uses these abilities to not believe as you do?

    1. Jerami profile image77
      Jeramiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I do not trust my self sometimes.  We have been influenced in ways that we are not aware of. The point that I was attempting to get at is that if we COULD read scripture  unprejudicedly, un affected by previous teachings, we would understand differently. Due to previous interpretations that we were taught, we have lost the ability to correctly understand what we are reading.
          My sincere apologies if you thought that my statement was aimed personally.

  14. KCC Big Country profile image83
    KCC Big Countryposted 7 years ago

    I think that "trusting" that we tend to do with what some others say happens when we hear something (or read something they've said) that rings true with what we ourselves believe.  If it doesn't strike a chord with us, we don't trust it.  It still comes down to trusting oneself.

  15. torimari profile image80
    torimariposted 7 years ago

    Not only would I rather go to hell, I hope it is like Dante's Correction "NINE" layers of hell...and I wonder where I'd land. big_smile


    What's with all the song lyrics?

    I'll be your oooown personal jesus,
    Pick up the receiver I'll make you a believer!!
    I will deliver, you know I'm a forgiver.
    Reach out and touch faith.

    1. Misha profile image75
      Mishaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Hey Tori, love your new pic smile

      1. torimari profile image80
        torimariposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Why thank you Misha. ;D

        It's ok Arthur. I do too. I think now, I'll just respond to people in lyrics.

        1. Arthur Fontes profile image89
          Arthur Fontesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Better than quoting scripture plus the question was imagine if the bible were true.  The lyrics are what come to my mind when I imagine that.

    2. Arthur Fontes profile image89
      Arthur Fontesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I like lyrics LOL

  16. Colebabie profile image59
    Colebabieposted 7 years ago

    No apology necessary. My point is that there pretty much isn't a way to have someone read the Bible with absolutely no prejudice, previous knowledge or insight. Don't you think God thought of that? Or knew that that would happen?

    1. Jerami profile image77
      Jeramiposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I do believe that there is a way to refraim from interpretating scripture. It is necessary to begin in the right place, do not interpretate these verses in any way no mater what. Acdcept this to be true exactly as stated and proceed.
         If we can reframe from starting we can reframe from continueing.

      1. cheaptrick profile image74
        cheaptrickposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        So when Christ said "eat this it is my body"???

        1. Arthur Fontes profile image89
          Arthur Fontesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          In your head, in your head,
          Zombie, zombie, zombie,
          Hey, hey, hey. What's in your head,
          In your head,
          Zombie, zombie, zombie?
          Cranberries

  17. habee profile image89
    habeeposted 7 years ago

    Ummm...Tori, Dante's Hell had nine layers (circles).

    1. torimari profile image80
      torimariposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Dammit, you are right. That's sad...because I read it in English and Italian. Shows how much I paid attention. D:

      1. cheaptrick profile image74
        cheaptrickposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I understand tori.
        I'm Italian and when I read stuff in Italian I get confused to!
        I went to college at WatsamataU!

        Also i think its perfectly understandable that you thought there were only seven levels cause your Young and probably haven't gone as Low as us older folks...
        By the way,I heard there's a trap door at the ninth level that leads to a special place for Lawyers but that could be a rumor...

        1. torimari profile image80
          torimariposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Hahah, perhaps I'll become a lawyer just for level 10. Watsamatau? Har har!

  18. habee profile image89
    habeeposted 7 years ago

    Okay, I'll have to give you extra homework!! lol

  19. David2423 profile image60
    David2423posted 7 years ago

    Ok nice topic.if you %#@ in a field it will attract flies. your asking unbelievers to believe in a sense. (That is so wrong).. thats like asking Believers to believe that the unbelievers have outreach programs to feed the starving.or that they are not of self. keep it real ummmmm so long/?

  20. profile image0
    Brenda Durhamposted 7 years ago

    For those in whom this thread seems to have struck a nerve or something.....

    I ask you why you're angry.

    And I ask you----has it maybe challenged your apathy?

    And would you even admit it, if it had?

  21. KCC Big Country profile image83
    KCC Big Countryposted 7 years ago

    *looks around*  I haven't heard anyone speak as though they were filled with anger or apathy.  Did you post in the wrong thread?

    1. tantrum profile image60
      tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      lol

    2. profile image0
      Brenda Durhamposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      You didn't read page 1, didja?

      Take a second look.

      That IS the whole idea of the thread, too.
      A second look at a concept that's been shoved into the back of some people's minds.....

      1. KCC Big Country profile image83
        KCC Big Countryposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I have re-read the entire thread and still don't see the anger, but if it makes you feel better to think some is there, enjoy.  LOL

        1. tantrum profile image60
          tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Why is it that Atheists have to be angry all the time?
          Maybe that should make me angry... but it only makes me laugh !

          lol

          1. AdsenseStrategies profile image73
            AdsenseStrategiesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            I'm angry sometimes, but I don't think it is usually because I don't believe in (certain people's version of) God. Pretty sure, at least

            1. tantrum profile image60
              tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              It seems that if we're angry, they're happy.(believers)
              Weird religion ! lol

              1. AdsenseStrategies profile image73
                AdsenseStrategiesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                I actually know some pretty nice Christians. I went to a church on Xmas Eve that had WOMEN PRIESTS (of course, I am in Canada, so this sort of thing is only to be expected; heck we have universal health care, for God's sake)

                1. tantrum profile image60
                  tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  I know nice Christians myself. and here on hubpages. They're my friends and my fans. but they're few !

                  1. AdsenseStrategies profile image73
                    AdsenseStrategiesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    I'm sure Brenda is nice, too. (I think she's just pretending here, a lot of them do that)

                2. cheaptrick profile image74
                  cheaptrickposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  WOW!!
                  Now I understand that look!
                  Your from Canada....
                  ..........I can hear the lynch mob gathering already,gulp...

                  1. AdsenseStrategies profile image73
                    AdsenseStrategiesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Hey, that's my best Daniel Craig impression!

          2. KCC Big Country profile image83
            KCC Big Countryposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            LOL   I don't understand WANTING to stir up anger either.  What's the point?

            1. tantrum profile image60
              tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              I hope the OP is able to answer that question !  hmm

  22. profile image0
    Denno66posted 7 years ago

    Imagine there's no heaven.....

  23. Colebabie profile image59
    Colebabieposted 7 years ago

    Yeah, I'm not angry at all. But I'm not sure I'm the audience Brenda was looking for hmm

    1. Misha profile image75
      Mishaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      You are definitely too tough LOL. She needs someone much more gullible smile

      1. Colebabie profile image59
        Colebabieposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        ::Flexing my guns:: Grr! mad

        Tough enough? No? Damn...
        I'm a little girl. I'm a pretty little girl...

        1. AdsenseStrategies profile image73
          AdsenseStrategiesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          From your pic, you could have a mouth full of metal, for all we know......

      2. Cagsil profile image58
        Cagsilposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        lol lol lol

  24. Arthur Fontes profile image89
    Arthur Fontesposted 7 years ago

    We're living in
    The age of frustration
    We're giving in
    But we can't even tell

    And all you need
    Is one good reason
    One good reason
    You don't believe

    You want a mapped out
    Blank Existance
    So you don't feel stupid
    Before you leave

    Everybody's here but nobody showed up

    A is for apathy

    Powerman 5000
    I can't help it.

  25. Colebabie profile image59
    Colebabieposted 7 years ago

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_B1LlYh6iKqs/Sr1gbkSGWMI/AAAAAAAAAzg/I2UnSNPWPgY/s400/lil-jon-grill.jpg
    Yeah!!! OKAY!

    EDIT: I had to change the picture. Flava Flav is just too damn ugly.

    1. Misha profile image75
      Mishaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      ROFLMAO lol

    2. AdsenseStrategies profile image73
      AdsenseStrategiesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I'm impressed, and a little bothered, at how fast you came up with that pic...

      1. Colebabie profile image59
        Colebabieposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I live to impress. Oh and I changed the pic smile

  26. Colebabie profile image59
    Colebabieposted 7 years ago

    I would like a Lake of Fire right now. I am in Florida and it is 40 degrees outside...

    1. AdsenseStrategies profile image73
      AdsenseStrategiesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      How ironic. I am in Canada, and it is like spring. Of course, for us, forty degrees is like Africa (it's a conversion thing)

      1. Colebabie profile image59
        Colebabieposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Ah yes the whole metric thingy smile I would like to roast some marshmallows on my Lake O'Fire. I shall call the lake "S'mores" Lake. Why not give the place of eternal damnation a positive title? Now where are the graham crackers...

  27. KCC Big Country profile image83
    KCC Big Countryposted 7 years ago

    I'm in Texas and we're expecting horribly icy cold weather over the next 48 hours.  They're talking teens, with negative chill factors!

  28. KCC Big Country profile image83
    KCC Big Countryposted 7 years ago

    Of course, it was 50 degrees this afternoon.  I just love that big shift.  LOL

  29. Eldritch Elegy profile image60
    Eldritch Elegyposted 7 years ago

    "I actually know some pretty nice Christians. I went to a church on Xmas Eve that had WOMEN PRIESTS (of course, I am in Canada, so this sort of thing is only to be expected; heck we have universal health care, for God's sake)"

    ... we have female ministers right here in the USA. It's not unusual.

    "I'm sure Brenda is nice, too. (I think she's just pretending here, a lot of them do that)"

    Pretending? At what? Obviously she's being nice, she's just posing a question and waiting to see what kind of responses she gets. She hasn't called anyone a name, belittled anyone (I mean, you'd probably have a fit if someone said you were "just pretending"), or anything of that sort. That comment makes no sense at all.

    Hey Brenda, my sympathies. The forums are no place for believers. For some reason the idea of a being who personifies love scares these people into a defensive mess.

    1. AdsenseStrategies profile image73
      AdsenseStrategiesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Not on this thread, it's true (and I meant pretending *not* to be nice)

    2. tantrum profile image60
      tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      'Hey Brenda, my sympathies. The forums are no place for believers. For some reason the idea of a being who personifies love scares these people into a defensive mess.'

      What would you call that ? is that not belittle ?

      1. AdsenseStrategies profile image73
        AdsenseStrategiesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        The idea of a being who personifies love is not, of course, aversive. The idea of a being who personifies love but will send you to hell for being gay is literally a contradiction in terms, n'est-ce pas? (sorry for the French; it's my Canadianness) hmm

      2. tantrum profile image60
        tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Well!  No answer !
        Typical!
        leave the message and fly away!
        It happens all the time !

        good night !

        1. Eldritch Elegy profile image60
          Eldritch Elegyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          Well I DO have several other sites I check when I get home from work.

          I never said I was above a little poking and prodding, now did I? tongue

          By the by... I don't like to get into the 'Does God Hate Gays' discussion, because it never IS a discussion, it's always just a fight.

          1. AdsenseStrategies profile image73
            AdsenseStrategiesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Unlike Brenda sad

            1. Eldritch Elegy profile image60
              Eldritch Elegyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              What do you mean? I read the whole thread and I don't remember more than one comment about gays.

              Maybe I'm just that tired?

              1. AdsenseStrategies profile image73
                AdsenseStrategiesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                Brenda had another thread about gays that has been raging all day... those of you with jobs were not involved hmm

                1. Eldritch Elegy profile image60
                  Eldritch Elegyposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Oh.

                  You know... I wish we could get together in the forums just once and have everyone be civil and respectful and just talk without fear that somebody's going to take everything to heart and go people-bashing.

                  Maybe my earlier comment was meant to provoke a little, but 99.99% of the time I try to just talk to people like they're people, and all they do is sink to the level of calling names and going to people's profiles to find reasons to personally insult them.

                  Oi, it's tiresome.

                  1. AdsenseStrategies profile image73
                    AdsenseStrategiesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Did you mean to write Oi? As in Oi Vey? Not very Christian... (totally kidding, really....... smile big_smile )

  30. tantrum profile image60
    tantrumposted 7 years ago

    OUI !

  31. Len Cannon profile image86
    Len Cannonposted 7 years ago

    Guys, okay, okay, okay guys, okay.  Imagine, JUST IMAGINE, that werewolf dragons are real.  Would you rather ride one into glorious battle where you will receive your own personal amusement park at the end or would you PREFER to be eaten alive by the werewolf dragon? Just a little thought exercise.

    1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
      Ron Montgomeryposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Your post is offensive.  The subject of werewolf dragons should be treated with more respect.

      1. tantrum profile image60
        tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Nice avatar!
        Red Revolution

        1. Ron Montgomery profile image60
          Ron Montgomeryposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          I didn't realize I was a Communist until a few thoughtful hubbers pointed it out to me.  I may have an official coming out party.  Does Obama need a Porn Czar?

          1. tantrum profile image60
            tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            It's good to be a communist. You don't have to be worried about the 'second coming'.whatever that is .
            lol

            1. Dgerrimea profile image80
              Dgerrimeaposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              Third coming surely? Wasn't the first coming of the Lord when Mary conceived Jesus?

          2. Arthur Fontes profile image89
            Arthur Fontesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            He probably already has one Ron!

      2. TheGlassSpider profile image81
        TheGlassSpiderposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        Yeah! And everyone knows it's the highest of honors to be eaten alive by the Great Werewolf Dragon Sartezza!! How dare you suggest that there could be something greater than being crunched like roasted bones between His mighty teeth??

  32. dyonder profile image79
    dyonderposted 7 years ago

    Which Holy Book? Which God/Goddess? Which version of that particular Holy Book?
    As Harry D'amour put it in Lord of Illusions, "You can never have too many saviors."

    1. AdsenseStrategies profile image73
      AdsenseStrategiesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I'm Brian and so's my wife.

  33. tantrum profile image60
    tantrumposted 7 years ago

    X RAYS

  34. Valerie F profile image59
    Valerie Fposted 7 years ago

    I've drawn one conclusion from some of the responses. Many people honestly would rather be eternally unhappy. They're bored and uncomfortable, perhaps unaccustomed to happiness.

    1. AdsenseStrategies profile image73
      AdsenseStrategiesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      I'm a bit surprised by this statement, as you are clearly one of the more intellectual posters on this site, it seems to me. Who in their right mind would rather be eternally unhappy. I mean, maybe there are some people out there like that, I guess, but "eternally"? I mean, that's a long time.

      Maybe some of these people simply cannot square the notion of "all-compassionate" and "all-merciful" with "weeping and gnashing of teeth" for all eternity. I mean, please, why would God endow us with common sense, and then ask us to ignore it when it came to (what is asserted to be) the most important question of all?

    2. profile image60
      (Q)posted 7 years ago in reply to this

      And, do you think their primary beliefs of eternal damnation, servitude and obedience to the invisible and undetectable might have something to do with it?

      1. AdsenseStrategies profile image73
        AdsenseStrategiesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        I don't think it is illogical, per se, to hold the beliefs you list, Q. I just don't think you can square those beliefs with an all-compassionate God capable of intervening in human affairs. If I was an all-compassionate, loving father, I might send my kids to hellfire, or to outer darkness, for, say, ten minutes, but eternity? Too long. Social services really should step in...

        I'm being facetious, but for a reason. Either ditch (a) all-compassionate, all-merciful God, or (b) all-powerful, all-seeing God, and keep the outer darkness stuff, or ditch the outer darkness stuff and keep (a) and/or (b).

        But don't ask me to ditch the rules of linguistic logic (is that a valid term?). I mean, why would God try to communicate to us but at the same time contradict the basic logic we need to make sense of the world?

  35. Len Cannon profile image86
    Len Cannonposted 7 years ago

    It is just a useless conversation.  If you knew the Bible was true, would you believe in God or make a bizarre decision to suffer for eternity?  No one can take that seriously.

    If Christians knew for a fact that Buddhism was actually the correct religion, would they still post about Jesus? No. That would be stupid. There's nothing beyond flippancy that can be added to the discussion.

  36. wesleyacarter profile image61
    wesleyacarterposted 7 years ago

    i think Mark is right here.

    Who says God is a Man?

    why is he always called a He?

    why is God referred to as a human? is it that we are trying to define some utterly inhuman in human terms in order to justify our own misconceptions?

    what if God isn't meant to be understood?

    1. tantrum profile image60
      tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      He's called 'he' sometimes because God is the male form of a Deity
      Goddess is the female.
      it doesn't mean anything. Just a form of describing it.

      1. wesleyacarter profile image61
        wesleyacarterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

        thanks tantrum. In this sense I was referring to the act of referencing God/dess with human traits.

        1. tantrum profile image60
          tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

          the less intelligent you are, the more human traits you put in your God.

          1. wesleyacarter profile image61
            wesleyacarterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

            hmmm. i would say a different point of view. not necessarily less intelligent. Assigning human traits conveys a different understanding or relatability (I hope that's a real word). In some cultures, people assign a masculine form to the word consistent with 'God' just to denote the gender of the speaker, and not the God.

            1. tantrum profile image60
              tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              when you don't understand Abstracts, you're not very intelligent, I think.

              1. wesleyacarter profile image61
                wesleyacarterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                well that's only one part of intelligence. there are plenty of people who don't understand Abstracts but DO understand different aspects of duality. There are many successful people living life making products of their environments who relate God in this way. There are many people who understand abstracts who can't explain them, and are not living productive worthwhile lives. Who is more intelligent in that sense?

                1. Mark Knowles profile image60
                  Mark Knowlesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                  Why are you limiting yourself ion this fashion? Duality? Why only two? Do you need to be intelligent to be "successful"? I know some pretty dumb actors and singers who just happened to be in the right place at the right time.

                  1. tantrum profile image60
                    tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    nicely put !
                    lol

                  2. wesleyacarter profile image61
                    wesleyacarterposted 7 years ago in reply to this

                    Duality, though containing a root that implies two, was meant in this sense as linear belief from one object to the other in relatable terms. I should have but didn't use a broader term because I didn't think of the word at the time. Plus i hate speaking in infinites and absolutes and things, because people tend to attack your words instead of your meanining.

                    I think success is intentional execution of one's desires. One has to be intelligent in order to execute their desires. As for the actors you mentioned, it wasn't there intention to be so, so they are not executing their desires, they are just taking an easy route, which in and of itself, could also be called intelligent i think. It puts them in a better position [in this society] to execute said desires thus, becoming successful.

          2. profile image0
            Denno66posted 7 years ago in reply to this

            Awesome! My God's a Sheep. big_smile

            1. AdsenseStrategies profile image73
              AdsenseStrategiesposted 7 years ago in reply to this

              A sheep is female

  37. profile image0
    Denno66posted 7 years ago

    William Shatner.

    1. tantrum profile image60
      tantrumposted 7 years ago in reply to this

      Brad Pitt
      lol

  38. Bill Manning profile image71
    Bill Manningposted 7 years ago

    Well the OP said and I quote:

    "IF you could believe, even for a moment, that the Bible's really true,"

    So your asking what is the lesser of two evils to choose from, All pure evil satan or the god that is written about in the bible.

    There is so much killing, rape, torture and more that has the blessing of the god written in the bible, written in many different parts of that book.

    So both are evil, just one wants you to blindly follow him/it/her/thing. At least Satan is honest about what your going to be doing! smile

 
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