Will any religious person admit that .....

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  1. aware profile image68
    awareposted 14 years ago

    those are the fact based ones
    . i like the fantasy ones better.

    1. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      lol alright, that was kinda boring. What is the fantasy ones?

  2. tantrum profile image60
    tantrumposted 14 years ago

    lol

  3. aware profile image68
    awareposted 14 years ago

    new day new answers. lets keep it fresh

  4. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 14 years ago

    Jewels, maybe you or someone else will be able to answer this for me.

    How can Mohit be so wrapped up on meditation when he forgets everything he releases in meditation? I could be wrong, but I get the idea that meditation is drawing from all of your surroundings being 1 and at the same time releasing negative energy while finding a balanced mind and body along with finding yourself. My question is, how can Mohit claim to understand meditation so well and then completely contradict it?

    1. tantrum profile image60
      tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Because he's a human being with issues, instead of an 'enlightened' prophet.

      1. marinealways24 profile image60
        marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

        I agree and I think we all have issues. I just think some of us are more honest with our issues unlike Mohit.

        Am I off on the meditation?

        1. mohitmisra profile image61
          mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          To mock someone ranked so highly is being honest?

      2. Jewels profile image83
        Jewelsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        I don't think he is really 'wrapped up in meditation' at all.  If he was, and really into it then he would be able to grasp experiences and put words to his own.  As we have seen his enlightenment experience is very limited in explanation.  I've had extreme experiences of light, heat and what some would say is "God" and I can explain them quite vividly even though words don't do justice. I do know however, that these experiences are the tip of the iceberg and saying they are "God" is so limiting. But any experience that has light in it would be termed "God" to many seekers.  It's not always the case, though any experience of light is better than never having had it.

        1. mohitmisra profile image61
          mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          I have had experiences I am the one, this fool ranked next to Bibles is an idiot, thats all this is  about.
          Be truthful you are not enlightened so you don't know what enlightenment is, you have only heard or read about it.

          Yo will not be able to dream of doing what I already have.

    2. skyfire profile image78
      skyfireposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      He got no idea about meditation and all. People got one new trick to earn fast in life that is" Come up with meditation/relaxation 101 tips" and preach it from either religious or non-religious angle as there are many people in india and outside it  under stress of something. Make them feel good and you're done. It's not new. Here in india, you can see such people every 100 meters.

      Some contradictions i found about wanna-be enlightened and spiritualists:

      - these wanna-be people want salvation but they want to earn adsense as well, use science/internet/money/credit card and they want moksha on other hand..how materialistic ?
      - in one side they say god is beyond logic, and on another side they claim you need enlightenment on another side.
      - they claim about being nice/goody goody and here you can find people spiting sarcasm/hatred against non-believers. 
      - with every post they make for god's justification, they assume god's position either from scriptures or from their own self bias..

      If they understand god and meditation, why they show mickey-mouse ego and attitude of Donald duck ?

      1. marinealways24 profile image60
        marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

        I agree, I don't have an answer for anything because I agree. lol Most will probably use making money as an out of making money through and for God.

      2. Jewels profile image83
        Jewelsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Priceless answer, and so bloody true.

        1. AdsenseStrategies profile image64
          AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          What does skyfire have against Donald Duck

          1. Jewels profile image83
            Jewelsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            lol

        2. mohitmisra profile image61
          mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Here in India no one is foolish enough to insult someone ranked over Bhagwat Gitas and Ramayanas they have more sense than that and spiritual people are respected.Especially those who have proved themselves with their work.
          What sort if human forget Indian does such a thing?
          Doesn't show great character.

          1. skyfire profile image78
            skyfireposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Yes because here in india people are more deluded to buy things from person who lacks in experience (and that includes grammar). And ranking gita, ramayana you say ? Kidou where is the proof i'm asking to you ? did you show me rankings ? and do you understand what ranking you boast is on just one website on which you have not maintained the ranking.

            materialistic ?

            1. mohitmisra profile image61
              mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

              Poetry is beyond the limitation of the language in the very first place.

              Look at that web site again, so now its only one one web site , need to be on a hundred ? rubbish.
              If I am speaking the truth then please have a little bit of decency and stop this non sense.

              1. skyfire profile image78
                skyfireposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Non-sense ? You're posting lie here and that is what we all are pointing you to that you're posting ranking which is not there in the website.

                100 websites ? Dude, your ranking is dropped on single one you pointed,it's not there wake up. You need to show us proof if it's there. Don't make things out and claim something that you don't know.

                1) Is boasting about ranking (which is dropped now) is non-sense ?

                or

                2) Pointing that ranking is dropped is non-sense ?

                What is truth ?

                1. mohitmisra profile image61
                  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Absolute non sense.You are bind doesn't make me the liar go back and click on the Franklin link now my work is i on the first page overall as well.


                  Overall from  111,958
                  http://find.franklin.com/nav/gr/ebooks/0

                  12.Ponder Awhile Mohit .K.Misra

                  Top Spiritual and Religious from 2920

                  http://find.franklin.com/nav/ca/Spiritu … r/ebooks/0

                  2.Ponder Awhile Mohit.K.Misra

                  1. skyfire profile image78
                    skyfireposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                    For link 1) Lol, see for yourself Mohit No 12. Do you understand rank 12 ? You got dropped in ranking which you claim to be at top.

                    2) For spiritual and religion book top ? you're charging 1.5$ and that makes it top and high ranked book in terms of content?, i'll think before boasting numbers this way seriously. I guess we need serious understanding of English here for person who don't understand what the other person is trying to say.

                    Nonsense in my post ? Err...Come again...

      3. mohitmisra profile image61
        mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Chop his head and grow tall the only way to feed your  ego

    3. mohitmisra profile image61
      mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Contradict , buddy is getting ranked next to Bibles, Qurans and BhAgwat Gitas contradiction?

  5. tantrum profile image60
    tantrumposted 14 years ago

    there are a lot of different types of meditation. One is the one You described.

    1. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks tantrum. I admit, I haven't tried a lot of meditation. I like to understand how things work before I try them so I know what the point is doing when i'm doing it. lol

      1. Jewels profile image83
        Jewelsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        True, lots of different methods from relaxation at the easy end of the spectrum, to total deconstruction of thoughts and emotions in the physical body, to the ability to hold thoughts above the head, and be in the world and not of it.

  6. tantrum profile image60
    tantrumposted 14 years ago

    lol
    I would like to see, what his answer would be !

    I think something is very wrong with him.
    If I was lectured  this way in a forum, I would feel ashamed of being found out.
    but he continues to come over and over again with the ranking stuff and his arrogance.
    I don't understand.
    Maybe he needs help

    1. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I think he hangs on the idea that Jesus was a prophet along with other prophets that no one listened to, so he is no different. I think he believes he is just like them with the word of God that no one will listen to.

      I will give his pride credit for one thing. It will keep him fighting wars even when he is destroyed with no chance of winning. It also keeps him shooting blindfolded. lol Back to that balance part.

      1. mohitmisra profile image61
        mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Everyone is not foolish and arrogant , ranked with the Bibles its not possible for everyone to mock me and not listen ,its the totally ridiculous who will not.

  7. skyfire profile image78
    skyfireposted 14 years ago

    I didn't mean it for lecture. But this seriously goes way above self-promotion and yesterday's pawned session didn't change him at all.

    1. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I know, I agree.

      I enjoyed reading all of it. I just felt bad that I didn't have much to add or comment on because I agreed with it. lol

  8. sublimed profile image57
    sublimedposted 14 years ago

    There is something fundamentally wrong with someone who claims to be so "enlightented" that rain does not fall on him and spends so much time boasting and trying to prove said enlightenment by way of some popularity ranking on a 3rd tier e-book "library."

    Perhaps the book is so popular there because it only costs $1.50.

    mohit, you give so much meaning to your ability to write poetry (which I actually find trite and sophomoric, compared to say, Rumi or Hafiz (please don't quote your ranking again)), and that this is proof of your enlightenment - I wonder if you've ever read this verse...

    "
    Those who know do not talk.
    Those who talk do not know.

    Keep your mouth closed.
    Guard your senses.
    Temper your sharpness.
    Simplify your problems.
    Mask your brightness.
    Be at one with the dust of the earth.
    This is primal union.

    He who has achieved this state
    Is unconcerned with friends and enemies,
    With good and harm, with honour and disgrace.
    This therefore is the highest state of man.
    "

    Tao te ching - ch. 56 - Lao Tzu
    (translation by Gia-fu Feng and Jane English)

    1. tantrum profile image60
      tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      If there was an 'enlightened' one, that was Lao Tzu.

      1. Jewels profile image83
        Jewelsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Beautiful. Thanks for adding this, exactly what I was trying to pass.

      2. mohitmisra profile image61
        mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        You dont believe in enlightenment and have no idea what is it so your statement is absurd.First gain enlightenment then talk about what it is and how enlightened ones are, this includes  Jewel as well.

    2. mohitmisra profile image61
      mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Zarathustra claimed it so did Buddha so did Mahavira so did Guru Nanak and many others have claimed enlightenment I am not the first to do so.The greatest of prophets have .

      Much better than Rumi or Hafiz have you read my work?

      Buddy no one who is not enlightened can put his knowledge down on paper and compete with Bibles, its just not possible .

  9. Valerie F profile image60
    Valerie Fposted 14 years ago

    I believe that justice for all who need it, mercy for all who give and accept it, and happiness and friendship for all who truly want it will not only happen, it is necessary.

    As for how, I have some ideas, but I won't claim to know.

  10. mikelong profile image61
    mikelongposted 14 years ago

    It's both fascinating and disturbing that so many people spend their active lives concerned about what happens when their bodies give out....


    I see it as just a giant waste of time.....which can also lead to delusions...

    Focus on living...

  11. aka-dj profile image64
    aka-djposted 14 years ago

    Mohit, you still bragging about your book rankings???
    Far out, man. Who gives a toss??
    Bragging is pride, and pride is sin. PERIOD.
    Try HUMILITY. Might get you further. hmm

    1. mohitmisra profile image61
      mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Oh god now its your egos turn.
      Then stop quoting from the Bible as well as its just another book, nothing else.Why don't you try humility surely you would have given a sermon to Jesus and the other Christians saints whose  words the Bible is composed on about humility.

      1. aka-dj profile image64
        aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        I don't have a ranking to brag about, so no ego here!
        In fact, I don't have much of anything to brag about. sad

        1. mohitmisra profile image61
          mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          So why tell someone who has achieved something when he shares with you what he has achieved, something you are unable to do.
          Cant you just be normal and have humility and appreciate it.

          1. skyfire profile image78
            skyfireposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            You call yourself spiritual ? Those words of his came from experience something that you lack. Take criticism in right direction or be a good entertainer by more bragging, choice is yours.

            1. mohitmisra profile image61
              mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

              Yes I am a spiritual poet Philosopher ranked at 2 in spiritual books, yet you keep insisting on giving me attitude and try to mock me I am tried of you and your cronies.Who is he , is he the one who wrote the Bible alone and is now admonishing me, dont think so.

              Hes is bragging right now , he thinks he has humility by mocking a spiritual poet ranked with the Bibles.

              1. skyfire profile image78
                skyfireposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Books store ? self promotion based book store am i right ? Want to get pawned here again ?

                1. mohitmisra profile image61
                  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Its my books ranking I didnt rank it. Whats so difficult to understand in this?

                  1. skyfire profile image78
                    skyfireposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                    Lol, your ranking is not there at top it's "12 and 2" on self-promotion bookstore. Read the bold part and digest before you start again.

          2. aka-dj profile image64
            aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Here's a suggestion;
            Write a Hub about how good you are. How well you have ranked, how people can find the links to the "proof" etc, and stop bragging in the forums.
            I've seen it too much myself. And I don't spend much time here.
            That's what Hubs and profile pages are for.
            If people care to find out for themselves, they will.

            1. mohitmisra profile image61
              mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

              Dont give me these stupid suggestion please , would you suggest such a thing to Jesus?

              1. skyfire profile image78
                skyfireposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                So you're portraying yourself like jesus ? Dude i'm non-believer but never did insult of that great philosopher like this way. I hope you know when to stop self promotion like this.

                1. mohitmisra profile image61
                  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  So why is my work ranked next to Bibles, common sense , please apply it.

                  1. skyfire profile image78
                    skyfireposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                    You ranked because of 1.5$ and not with content. You think people don't understand grammar and comprehension ? Besides your ranking is on "self-promotion bookstore", do you know what that is ?

                    Try getting it ranked on amazon before you boast about it.

                  2. Pandoras Box profile image60
                    Pandoras Boxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                    Is it next to Bibles as in bull doodoo? Fables? Myths?

              2. aka-dj profile image64
                aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Oh, that's right, I forgot, you ARE JUST LIKE JESUS!! (In your deluded dreams).
                What was I thinking.hmm
                I'm sure He would have bragged about His achievemnts, just like you (NOT!). sad

  12. Sara Tonyn profile image60
    Sara Tonynposted 14 years ago

    mohitmisra --

    I have no desire to argue about your credentials. I just want an answer to a few questions. So far no one has offered any reasonable explanations so maybe you'd like to try.

    If so, here's my 1st problem:

    Whether you believe Adam & Eve and the Garden of Eden were real or the whole story is a metaphor, why didn't God just forgive them for their very first sin?

    You know, why not give them a second chance before kicking them out of the Garden of Eden? (really or metaphorically)

    Why not give them a "do over"?

    3 three strikes instead of just one?

    People give each other second chances all the time and we're equals. God is superior to humans so why not cut them some slack for their screw-up?

    1. mohitmisra profile image61
      mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you finally a question.

      Its more of a metaphor India legend has Manu as being the first human.

      We all still have the second chance its not taken away for good.
      God exists in every human including you and its really totally up to you , you can go back home to god if you want to if you have some other desires you will materialize it .Home is referred to as the garden of eden or heaven , again metaphor

      Your thoughts manifest, you are the creator.I am sure at times you have thought of something and it came to you in a later date,you created it.

      "You can sit next to me in the kingdom of heaven" Jesus
      I tell ye you are all gods"Jesus
      The kingdom of god is within you, your real or inner or higher self is  this Light or god, all is you.

      "when we finally come to our senses we never return to this material world this painful playground we mistakenly call home" Krishna Bhagwat Gita

      'Unto Allah is your return and he is able to do all things" Holy Quran

      No one can take god away from you as god is within you .

      The laughing Buddha symbolizes an enlightened one who has understood all is you, this is called the cosmic joke its all a game you are playing with yourself.

      I was an atheist and then I found god ,the author of the masterpiece the Ramayana was a bandit who became a poet saint. smile

      Hope you got your answer.

      1. Sara Tonyn profile image60
        Sara Tonynposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Is the story of Manu the same idea as that of Adam & Eve?

        Did Manu have everything he could ever want then lose it because he did something wrong?

        1. mohitmisra profile image61
          mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          No its just the origin of mankind.Indian philosophy believes we come her on earth to fulfill our desires and it is hell in one aspect. Its a big school for our souls ,when we learn what we have come to we go back to heaven , our source.

          Its a way of saying one has lost his god self or real self and can reclaim it.

          1. Sara Tonyn profile image60
            Sara Tonynposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I like that. smile

            Thank you for your responses. They helped; or at least the Indian philosophy did!

            By any chance do you practice Ayurveda?

            1. mohitmisra profile image61
              mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

              You are welcome and its a pleasure you asked such an intelligent question , such a refreshing change from whats going on.

              No knowledge of ayurveda, very poor knowledge about plants and their herbal benefits, why do you ask ? Do you practice it?

              1. Sara Tonyn profile image60
                Sara Tonynposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                No, I don't really practice it. I don't know enough about it to use it properly, but I'm very interested in it.

                In fact I'm interested in all alternative medicine. Ayurveda and Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) are my favorites but I also like reflexology, reike and others.

                1. mohitmisra profile image61
                  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Nice I did a course in pranic healing but never focused on healing, I can pray and heal people. smile

                  Its a very vast subject and requires many years of dedication, not my path. smile
                  You are god send.

                  1. Sara Tonyn profile image60
                    Sara Tonynposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                    Thanks but I don't think anyone would agree that I'm a god send. smile  Most people think I may have been sent from the other direction.  lol

                    I don't know much about pranic healing but it's another subject I'd like to learn more about. 

                    Did you study world religions on your own or did you attend classes on them too?

    2. Valerie F profile image60
      Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Ehhh, in the story, there is no record of Adam or Eve asking for forgiveness or a second chance. Plus, they were warned in advance what would happen.

      1. Jerami profile image58
        Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I still think that Adam and Eve eating the forbidden fruit  Was proof to God that The creation did in fact have free will.
        The fact that they disobeyed meant that the free will was in fact working.
             Had they never disobeyed how would they know that they had free will?

        1. goldenpath profile image68
          goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Yes, they knew they had their agency.  However, the process of transgression was necessary not only to promulgate the process of mankind but also for them to truly know good from evil.  There would be no discernment had they not known the sorrow of evil or their actions in taking the fruit.  One of the important things to remember is that this was a transgression and not a sin.  Big difference.

      2. Sara Tonyn profile image60
        Sara Tonynposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Still, according to the story, God could have given them a second chance even if they didn't ask for it and even if they knew what would happen.

        Maybe I've heard a slightly different story than you or some others. This is the way I understand it: As punishment for disobeying God, Adam and Eve were thrown out of the Garden of Eden, women would suffer giving birth, men would have to provide for them by the sweat of their brow and death (instead of immortality) awaited everyone.

        Based on that version, it sounds like God set up a sting operation then threw the book at Adam and Eve when they fell for it.

        Under those circumstances, I don't see why God wouldn't say, "I'll tell you what. I sorta set you up to fail so maybe it wasn't all your fault. Let's pretend it never happened and start from the top."

        Human beings have enough forgiveness in them to allow people second chances, so God must have enough forgiveness too. But he didn't use it, according to the story. That doesn't make sense to me.

        Help?

        1. goldenpath profile image68
          goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          But it's not a situation as we stumble.  The plan to institute the human species was absolutely necessary for the eternal progression of man.  It needed to happen.  Also, Adam and Eve had to understand sorrow and the affects thereof.  The Fall had to happen for all this to take place.  Man had to be cut off from the presence of the Father in order to prove them.  The Fall accomplished this as it literally hurled the Earth through the immensity of space.  Man had to be brought into this fallen state in order to reach new heights.  They were tempted to return to the garden but were prevented by the cherubim.  They wept so and were brought into the pit of despair for what they had lost.  Yet, it had to be.

          1. Sara Tonyn profile image60
            Sara Tonynposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            So you're saying, Adam and Eve needed to disobey God to set everything in motion?

            That sounds like God set them up and that would be cruel. That's like teaching kids that fire can be destructive and dangerous by throwing them into a flaming barbeque pit.

            A bit drastic, to say the least.

            God could have simply and painlessly instilled whatever knowledge he wanted in Adam and Eve. Or at least found a less drastic way to teach them about sorrow or anything else.

            So why did he choose to make them suffer such dire consequences instead?

            1. goldenpath profile image68
              goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this

              God does not cheat.  He would never arbitrarily instill essential knowledge in a being that would be better served learned.  This learned knowledge of knowing good and evil could have only come from transgressing the law proclaimed by the Father and the Son.  It is all about agency, not setting them up.  They were given the garden that provided all their needs for it was celestial.  They were given the Tree of Knowledge with the commandment not to partake.  However, they were given the agency to choose.  They were faithful in this command.  Satan beguiled Eve and essentially told her the truth but in a way that prompted her to disobey Father.  He told her the plan.  After taking the fruit she became aware that she would be separated from Adam for her disobedience.  Because of this frustration Adam and Even knew that it must be in order for the work to go forth.  So Adam partook as well.  Drastic, yes!  Necessary, absolutely!

              I know it's easy to equate these events with our modern domestic relationships but it really is far from it and severely diminishes the magnitude of the purpose of the Fall. 

              Why were they made to suffer so?  One needs to consider where they were.  They were close to God not only in intelligence but also physically.  In order to bring them to a status where they needed to be they had to be literally thrust down even so that it caused the shifting of the Earth itself.  It's really not a choice of the Father for their suffering but rather their suffering is a product of their own actions which needed to be.  Just imagine how important this plan had to be in order to literally move the Earth itself.  We can scarcely comprehend.

              Adam and Eve are to be commended for their actions and not condemned.  Were it not so we would not even be here.

              1. Sara Tonyn profile image60
                Sara Tonynposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Okay, you lost me. Lemme backtrack to see if I have this correct.

                1. God wanted Adam and Eve to disobey him so he could teach them about good and evil.

                2. Adam and Eve figured out God's plan after Eve took a bite.

                3. Adam then took a bite because he understood it was necessary for both to disobey God.

                4. Adam and Eve were similar to God intellectually and physically.

                5. We're supposed to commend Adam and Eve for disobeying God because otherwise we wouldn't exist.

                Am I close?

                If so, then Adam and Eve figured out the plan but intentionally kept going because that was part of the plan too. In other words, they felt they had no choice but to continue.

                Then God kicked them out of the Garden for doing exactly what he wanted them to do. And he did it even though he knew that Adam and Eve only disobeyed him because they thought they had to in order to please him.

                And as a side note, Adam and Eve were similar to God physically even though God is not a corporeal being.

                Does that sum things up?

                1. goldenpath profile image68
                  goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  1)  It's not a matter of wanting them to disobey but rather allowing them the time to be persuaded by Satan to disobey.  A command is still a command but something had to give cause.
                  2)  Not quite in that sense.  They knew the plan before but were unaware of the implications of what was needed to start the plan.  Keep in mind they knew only beauty and light.  Never before had they been accustomed to temptation.  It wasn't until sin entered the body that they then realized what was going to happen and what they needed to do.
                  3)  Yes, but remember that not taking the fruit was not the first commandment.  To multiply and replenish the Earth was the first commandment.  Only when sin entered did they understand the only means by which this first commandment would be accomplished.
                  4)  The Earth was near God and so Adam and Eve were literally in close proximity to Him.  They had great intelligence yet were also as children not knowing evil.
                  5)  Yes!  Otherwise we would not even be here on our journey toward progression.  We would still be in the realm of spirits unable to progress as our parents did.
                  6)  Yes, absolutely the Father is a being of flesh and bone, perfected.  He is every bit as real as our fathers and mothers here on Earth.  He is perfected as He, Himself, went through His own journey and accomplished it.  We are here to do the same.

              2. sublimed profile image57
                sublimedposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Rudolf Steiner, in his Anthroposophical vision, says that in the future, humans in their final evolutionary form will be known through the Cosmos as the "Angels of Choice."  - that in the Garden, we were so immersed in the Presence of the Almighty, that there was hardly a distinction between us and the Father.

                It is, indeed, the capacity to make a choice, our Free Will, which makes us unique in the Kingdom, and makes us "in his own image."

                Now we have the choice. We have the capacity to see Good and Evil, and to live our lives accordingly. It is up to us.

                1. Sara Tonyn profile image60
                  Sara Tonynposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  But human beings aren't perfect so of course they choose evil at times. (If they didn't they'd be perfect and only God is perfect.)

                  How many times are we allowed to do evil before we pay for it eternally?

                  And by making us imperfect, we're guaranteed to do evil so how fair is that in the first place?

                  1. Jewels profile image83
                    Jewelsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                    But did he make us imperfect?  Was it "God" who said we are not perfect, or was it man who saw himself lesser than perfection, and as such made that statement?

                    My own understanding of the Fall - the myth of Adam and Eve is similar to sublimed.  The 'place' was Eden as this was our perception of our surroundings.  Was it an actual geographical place or a space of consciousness?  Hard to know these things.  We were in an unfallen state prior to the eating of knowledge.  We felt one with God but had no sense of being able to differentiate ourselves from this Union.  At the fall we had the choice to see ourselves as perfect, or to not see ourselves as perfect.  We made some not so good choices there!  We were not kicked out, we kicked ourselves out by our choices.

                  2. sublimed profile image57
                    sublimedposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                    There seems to be an assumption that to "do evil" will result in punishment via damnation. I would suggest that this may not be the case, at least not as preached in Christian Churches around the world.

                    There are allusions in the Bible to reincarnation, and teachings on the subject in numerous other religions and spiritual groups. All of them indicate more than one lifetime, sometimes hundreds or more, for each individual to "get it right."

                    Look at the word "sin." In Latin it means "without." So an "act of sin" is an "act without." Without what? God? Awareness? Love? (some may say these are all the same thing).

                    With this in mind, one can see that most of us Live In Sin most of the time. Moment by moment without awareness of God's Love. This puts the concept of Original Sin in different light. And one may consider that if we choose to live without God's Love (by not choosing), we are already paying for it.

                    But if we choose to live without sin, or with Awareness of God's Love, moment by moment, day by day ...

            2. mohitmisra profile image61
              mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

              He has admitted he doesn't know god.Only one who has died becomes the Light and comes back is a real knower of god.
              Many have a good connection but they lack the knowledge which can be gained only though experience.

              He will not be able to answer this question properly.Many so called preachers who haven't crossed over , they repeat what other masters have said but lack the experience themselves, dont have the real knowledge.

        2. Valerie F profile image60
          Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Regarding Adam and Eve and second chances, that's where themes like repentance and salvation come in. God does not withhold second chances from people who want them. Now, in the grand scheme of things, Christianity teaches that in fact, Jesus' death and resurrection is the big "do-over."

          But God never set us up to fail. You act as if "don't eat that," is really all that complicated and difficult a rule.

          1. Sara Tonyn profile image60
            Sara Tonynposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            It's not a matter of being difficult or complicated. It's a matter of a punishment being too severe for a first offense; a one and only offense.

            No one gets a do-over except the original participants. And they didn't get one, whether they asked for one or not.

            Besides, the connection between sacrificing your godly son and the sins of Mankind is a whole separate can of worms.

  13. profile image54
    mcsmilesposted 14 years ago

    guy you are funny.

  14. sublimed profile image57
    sublimedposted 14 years ago

    mohit,
    Franklin.com is NOT a Library.
    Libraries do not sell books.
    Bookstores sell books.
    Franklin.com doesn't even sell books, it sells e-books.

    You can sort their "ranking" by popularity/low price/ high price/ title.

    Popularity is sales. It is sales of your $1.50 self-published/ self-promoted e-book on Franklin.com only, which is why you are not rich.

    If you can show us where the "librarians" of Franklin.com state how they rank the books based on content (somehow without bothering to write a review), please do so. I imagine that most of us will get off your back.

    If you cannot do this, and continue to brag about your "library ranking," understand this clearly - you are living in a fantasy world.

    1. mohitmisra profile image61
      mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Yup whatever you say my work is crap and this books stores rankings are crap as well.Been ranked by other bookstores as well but then that must be crap as well.

      You really think my book in a few years sells as much as the Bibles?
      Been called the Shakespeare from  Pune in the Indian papers and radio as well, all crap.Saints from all communities have acknowledged and praised my work so many have said its the best book they ever read, all crap.

      English professors and mystics have said no one can write like this , all crap.

      1. sublimed profile image57
        sublimedposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        I repeat. You are living in a fantasy world.
        I did not say that your book "in a few years sells as much as the Bibles."
        I did not say anything about your proponents.
        I did not say anything about other book stores.

        At least you are calling it a book store, now, and not a library.

        I would still like you to show us that the "rankings" (by popularity) mean something other than sales.

        1. mohitmisra profile image61
          mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          But you said its getting as many sales and that's the reason its ranked with the Bibles, make up your mind.Have you read my book, obviously not. smile

          I would be very rich if it were sales I am not.

          1. sublimed profile image57
            sublimedposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            No. I said that is was getting as many sales (in e-book format) on Franklin.com, and that you were selling it for only $1.50, which is another reason that you are not getting rich.

            I think I see something, now, though. You must not be making many sales to think that it is content that your book is being ranked on. This must mean that people are not buying the Bible in e-book format, either, which makes sense. I'd rather read it in print. It is available free in electronic form, anyway. Who who would pay $39.95 for something that you can get for free? I suppose it is still more people than pay $1.50 for your book.

            I did notice, too, that the most "popular" book on Franklin.com is "1936 Supreme Court Decisions and Cases" (ranked above you). I think this also indicates how many books are being sold at Franklin.com.

            I have not read your book. I have read the poetry you've posted on this thread as "proof" of your enlightenment.
            Based on this experience, I will not read your book. smile

            1. mohitmisra profile image61
              mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

              Its not about getting rich its about spreading god knowledge. If it was about money I would never dedicate so many years of my life to poetry.

              Your ego prevents you from gaining knowledge.

  15. aka-dj profile image64
    aka-djposted 14 years ago

    I for one never called the published work "CRAP!".
    I have never bought nor read it. (nor do I intend to. BTW.)
    My only ever contention has been the constant boasting
    "I am ranked this or that..."

    WHO GIVES A TOSS???

    I'm glad about your "success" Mohit, but "put a sock in it!"...PLEASE.

    There is a proverb (in the Bible of course) that says "do not let your praise come out of your own mouth."
    Humulity lets OTHERS praise them for whatever accomplishments are deserving. big_smile

    1. mohitmisra profile image61
      mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      You ask a question I answer you after that you abuse me I will show you my rankings and if you have any brains you will shut up.
      If you truely are glad dont join these people who are intent on mocking me.
      I have supported you when no one else on this forum did, because you spoke the truth, many were against you and I stood by you, didn't give a damn about the consequences .

      1. aka-dj profile image64
        aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        That was a TOTALY IRRELEVANT response.
        I did not ask a question, and I do not mock you.
        I simply challenge your PRIDE!

        1. mohitmisra profile image61
          mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          It is the truth what pride, my work is ranked at 2 , its has taken years of effort and a lot of sacrifice on my path.
          I answer  someones question get abused by some for doing so I and I am supposed to have foolish pride, wake up.
          You have never defended yourself ? yes you have many , many times and you dont have the qualifications I do.
          You know I have knowledge of the beyond.

          1. aka-dj profile image64
            aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            For someone so much more intelligent and with so much more knowledge, you still don't get it.
            Bragging about your achievement is what I spoke about. THAT'S IT.
            UM....STOP BRAGGING
            I guess yelling still won't get the message accross. sad
            Oh well, I guess you have no need to learn any more(either). sad

            1. mohitmisra profile image61
              mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

              Give me one reason why I shouldn't speak the truth.If you became a poet and got ranked with Bibles how could I tell you not to say it when someones ridicules you or your answer.
              Jesus repeated he is the son of god , was he bragging or was he speaking the truth.

              1. aka-dj profile image64
                aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                VERY poor comparison.
                This statement speaks of WHO He is,    NOT His accomplishments.
                He healed numerous sick people, never once did He brag about it.

                "Hey everyone. I healed 15 people today"
                "Oh, I raised two from the dead too"
                ..Jesus

                Ludicrous. Stupid!

                1. mohitmisra profile image61
                  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  I have healed people with brain tumors and this is the first time I am telling you about it.Dont even mention these things.
                  You are ludicrous and stupid for giving me attitude.

                  Muslim philosophy regards the prophets in two categories the one who writes being the higher.
                  You know you can learn from me so why the attitude?

                  1. aka-dj profile image64
                    aka-djposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                    You may now have your moment of glory. Good night. big_smile

  16. Sara Tonyn profile image60
    Sara Tonynposted 14 years ago

    Thanks for the interesting discussion, mohitmisra. I appreciate it.

    I need some sleep now! Take care, please. smile

    1. mohitmisra profile image61
      mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you Sara, take care yourself, good night. smile

  17. skyfire profile image78
    skyfireposted 14 years ago

    Agree neutral

  18. theirishobserver. profile image61
    theirishobserver.posted 14 years ago

    I have just posted pics of the Irish Stew I have just made.....now if you would like some send a self addressed envelope to Ireland smile

  19. skyfire profile image78
    skyfireposted 14 years ago

    Well interesting stuff is when sir Mo, talks about his content close to bible=D
    Anyway, tired of mobbing floor with him.  Not even worth it. neutral

    1. tantrum profile image60
      tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      It's a lost case !
      He's been doing it for more than 2 years, and haven't learned the lesson.
      Everybody's laughing, and he can't see.
      Everybody gets bored of explaining to him,and he still can't see.
      As I always say: Arrogance and pride,blinds people.
      Imagine after all that time ! He must be completely blind !! yikes

  20. skyfire profile image78
    skyfireposted 14 years ago

    Sad to know that neutral
    BBUH(Bookshelf be upon him)

  21. sublimed profile image57
    sublimedposted 14 years ago

    mohit,
         you are awakening no one here in the category you created of "people like you."
         you wonder why people mock you when you boast of your meaningless rankings and compare yourself to jesus. this will never end. these "people" see through you. you have given them nothing to change their mind.
         try to stop proving you are enlightened, and try to be more enlightening. then you may find some results.
         
         p.s. you still haven't answered my question.

    1. mohitmisra profile image61
      mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      So how am I able to answer question which no one else can ?

      Have you read my book ?
      I am enlightened like Jesus whether you like it or not.
      These people have no idea what god or enlightenment is , what will they see through?
      I have written a masterpiece the likes this planet has or will not see.

      All of you who mock me and feel superior, if you get together and write a better poem on religion I will say I am a fake. You can take 5 to 10 years no problem .

      1. sublimed profile image57
        sublimedposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        My challenge to you was to prove that the popularity ranking on Franklin.com was something other than a sales ranking for sales made on Franklin.com. I can't put it any clearer than that for you and if you don't understand what I'm saying, maybe you should audit some of those courses you took at the "Oxford of India."


        I think I made it perfectly clear that I have no intention of reading your book. If you could be more enlightening in these forums, instead of a braggart, perhaps I would consider it.


        Umm, no I don't think so. When I meditate on Christ, I feel uplifted, light, full of Love and care-free. When I tune into you, I feel slightly nauseous and headache-y.



        Probably because so few are buying it.


        Okay. So who is going to judge the poetry?
        I write poetry.
        I say mine is better than yours.
        Let's decide on who the judges will be, and you submit your best poem, and I'll submit mine.
        I would love the opportunity to hear you say that you are a fake.
        I'm ready in 5 or 10 minutes, I don't want to wait 5 or 10 years.

        1. mohitmisra profile image61
          mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          So go ahead and post your piece on Religions.If you show me a better piece I will leave this forum immediately.

          You should be the poet and not me since you claim to be a better poet, braggart ha
          Poetry started with the Holy Vedas in India a spiritual masterpiece, the medium used by the enlightened one to spread god knowledge gain enlightenment first then become a poet if that's your call.
          Poets are the prophets , the messengers of god.

          Thats what this is about I am better than you even though you are ranked next to Bibles, ego problem.
          Put your work up lets see who ranks your work next to Bibles.

          My work is ranked at 1 in under $5 over the Bibles .
          Ranked  10 Inspirational and Religious poetry books on Best Book Buys,was even ranked at 1.

          So clearly many see merit in my poetry which you have failed to do braggart.

          So you refuse to read but have already made your decision, not very intelligent on your path.

          1. sublimed profile image57
            sublimedposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I find it quite interesting that, after I say just once, that I think my poetry is better than yours, you call me a braggart and mention your ranking twice.

            This is not about my ego. My path is not poetry. This is about trying to show you that what you do is not so special, after all.

            But you (again) fail to understand the meaning of my post. Your general lack of comprehension and your paltry arrogance make me sad for you.

  22. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 14 years ago

    big_smile What did I miss?

  23. Cagsil profile image70
    Cagsilposted 14 years ago

    It might help if "Adam" and "Eve" were real people. lol

    1. Sara Tonyn profile image60
      Sara Tonynposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      But then there would be no need for any discussion. And I LIKE discussions, as you already know!  wink   lol

      I'm just trying to understand things from all points of view. That's the best way I know of to arrive at the truth -- if the truth is actually known by anyone...  smile

      1. Cagsil profile image70
        Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Okay, I'll wait. lol lol big_smile

        1. Sara Tonyn profile image60
          Sara Tonynposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Okie-doke, but this could take a while so you might want to order a pizza or something.

          1. Cagsil profile image70
            Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            You noticed that too. lol lol

          2. Cagsil profile image70
            Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Are you up for Pizza? If so, what would you like on it and where is it being delivered? lol lol tongue big_smile

  24. Cagsil profile image70
    Cagsilposted 14 years ago

    roll hmm

  25. Cagsil profile image70
    Cagsilposted 14 years ago

    Hmmm......? Should I order? big_smile tongue wink

    1. Sara Tonyn profile image60
      Sara Tonynposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Yep. And better make it an extra-large. Or bigger if possible.

      Pepperoni, onions, olives, green peppers and hot peppers should do it.

      Tell the driver I'm in Ohio, USA. I'll leave a light on for him.big_smile

      1. Cagsil profile image70
        Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        lol lol Oh, okay. tongue big_smile

        1. Sara Tonyn profile image60
          Sara Tonynposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Thanks! (I assume you like all the toppings I picked.) wink

          1. Cagsil profile image70
            Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            And, what normally happens when someone assumes something? lol lol

            Actually, not really. But, it's being delivered to you, not me. lol lol

  26. Cagsil profile image70
    Cagsilposted 14 years ago

    I guess someone forgot to tell GOD it had to play fair. lol

  27. Cagsil profile image70
    Cagsilposted 14 years ago

    Oh, wait?

    GOD forgot to tell himself, what he already knew about fairness. lol lol

  28. marinealways24 profile image60
    marinealways24posted 14 years ago

    Why do the religious feel the need to protect Gods word? I don't ask anyone to protect my words and I am only a human. Is God weaker than a human for being dependent on humans to protect his word?

    1. Cagsil profile image70
      Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      lol lol lol lol

      1. marinealways24 profile image60
        marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

        lol I really can't wait to see the "interpretations of defense" to answer this.

  29. Cagsil profile image70
    Cagsilposted 14 years ago

    Right now, I'm simply sitting on the sideline, letting Sara Tonyn deal with goldenpath. Sara Tonyn was to have a simple discussion about the beginning stage of humankind and to see if it can be brought about to an agreeable understanding.

    I personally think it's a long shot. But, I sent Sara Pizza, which should be delivered shortly. lol lol lol

    1. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I hope it is some infinite pizza to go along with some infinite coffee to go along with the infinite discussion between faith and logic. If most of religious knew honesty, I don't think it would require so much faith to believe them.

  30. goldenpath profile image68
    goldenpathposted 14 years ago

    I'd like to thank Sara Tonyn for her inquiries.  She asked question and I answered as I will continue to do for anyone.  It is good to see someone asking very good and valid questions.  As she said before - only through gaining all points of view will she be able to acquire the truths that she feels right for her.  It is good to see someone putting forth the effort to learn a different point of view.  I thank you for allowing me the opportunity to express my thoughts and beliefs.

    1. Cagsil profile image70
      Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      You don't seriously think Sara is done with you yet? lol lol

      1. goldenpath profile image68
        goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        I sincerely hope not, but if so that's fine.  It is just refreshing to have a good dialogue.  Productive dialogues are far and few between in these forums but are nice when they happen.

        I really hope you are all enjoying your pizza.  I am brewing up my mug of cocoa right now while putting together my sermon for next Sunday and flipping back and forth to this discussion.  It's keeping me on my toes switching gears.

        1. Jerami profile image58
          Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

              I had a ph call and had to go out on business.

            Been reading most of the posts since I left.
            I've Gotta agree with Golden path on those post that I read all of.
             I've just got one thing to add......  Where do you supose the Garden was?   And was it really punishment  "Kicking" them out or was it their origional wish to leave?

          1. goldenpath profile image68
            goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I do not believe the garden was in Africa as is often the common belief.  I believe the area to be on the North American continent.  It's actually difficult to imagine.  At the time all land was together.  It wasn't until the days of Peleg that the lands were divided.

            On the other point.  The adored the Garden.  It was home to them and was the place they actually walked with God.  I sincerely doubt they wanted to leave.  At the same time "punishment" might be a little harsh for a term to use.  I prefer to see it as the condition created upon their transgression.  The act created the condition upon which it was physically and spiritually impossible for them to tarry in the Garden, a perfect and celestial place. 

            There is much possibility in considering the Fall of Adam and Eve with the age of the Earth that scientists claim.  It's not doctrine but I have a theory.  It's as I've said before.  I strive to always connect science and religion and believe that they do and must go hand in hand eventually.

            1. mohitmisra profile image61
              mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

              Garden of Eden is a metaphor for paradise or heaven .

        2. mohitmisra profile image61
          mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          This I agree with productive dialogues seem rare now days with the amount of idiots who have joined this forum.

  31. Cagsil profile image70
    Cagsilposted 14 years ago

    I studied religion for a long, long time and I learned what there was to learn. I even put the doctrines to work in my life. Then, it became obvious, those who unknowingly perpetuate the hoax of religion, never use logic in their argument.

    Those who do try to use logic, skip certain details, so as to understand a meaning, for which, was not intended to begin with.

    Interesting, huh?

    1. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Yes and when they skip those details, they fill in the blanks with faith for not being able to give a logical explanation to justify belief.

  32. Jerami profile image58
    Jeramiposted 14 years ago

    Just an Idea that I am now "Thinking out loud".
        I was thinking that the Garden might have been a metaphor for HEAVEN. Heaven could possibly be a diffrent dimension sharing out space time continuum. It could be a possibility that they expressed their free will choosing life in this realm. The only way for us to regain entrance into the Heaven (Garden) realm is when we exit the flesh.
         The way I see this, it would not necessarily be a contradiction of the overall theme as written in Genesis.
         But I have been wrong before.
      I'm going to think about this some more.

    1. goldenpath profile image68
      goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Valid point, my friend.  Although I respectfully differ I don't discount the idea.

      True being physically so close to the abode of God it was almost like heaven itself.  After all, it was patterned after our home with the Father.  Also, the Earth itself is due and will be celestialized eventually.  That is when it will physically be brought back near the abode of God.  Again, worthiness.  The Earth and it's inhabitants at that future time will be worthy to be within the realm of the governing bodies of God.

      1. Jerami profile image58
        Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

           I agree with you that science and Faith can and should be seen as the same or at least be seen as functioning parts of the same thing.
           Why do people tend to separate everything "either or"
           I will have to do a lot of thinking concerning my previous post. I may totally reject this idea tomorrow but today it feels like it may be a good metaphor.

        1. goldenpath profile image68
          goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          That's the beauty of it!  You are at least open to other points of view and not closed off.  That's the path of knowledge and it's good to see.
          "either or"
          I have my doctrines and they are firm.  However, I do not trust them blindly.  I believe certain foundational scientific facts and strive to support my beliefs with them.  Those beliefs of mine that are not, as of yet, adopted as revelation or doctrine in my denomination I strive to at least formulate a scientific theory to support those beliefs as I have about the age of the Earth. 

          There are many who are religious but are so set in wanting to be "right" that they make themselves immoveable to even tolerance of other views.  At the same time the other side is exactly the same.  They all want so bad to be "right" that they make themselves prisoners to the cage of pride that they cannot see beyond those walls which are nothing more than walls of mirrors on the inside.

    2. mohitmisra profile image61
      mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      You are correct Jerami it is a metaphor for Heaven.

  33. pigfish profile image60
    pigfishposted 14 years ago

    I don't understand quite a bit of Jesus' parables

    1. goldenpath profile image68
      goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      One of my favorites that very much applies to these days is the parable of the ten virgins.  NO SEXUAL REFERENCE INTENDED!

      It deals with being prepared temporally and spiritually.  Those who are not will be left without.

  34. Jerami profile image58
    Jeramiposted 14 years ago

    I do not claim to "KNOW" very much even though I am not
    "scared" to express what I think.
       I "Think" that I see what he was talking about with the parables that I am familiar with

  35. Jewels profile image83
    Jewelsposted 14 years ago

    I've had experiences of the Fields of Peace which in Christian terms is Heaven.  Though it's not a place I can get a plane ticket for.

  36. BL Tween profile image59
    BL Tweenposted 14 years ago

    May I jump in and post a reply?

    Just a few short remarks,
    Yes the Garden of Eden was a real place, there are clues in the Bible that tell of its location. However, after the flood things changed.

    Yes, I will admit that I am sure of Heaven. That I am sure the Bible is true and that God is real.
    I am working on more detailed explanations as to why I am so sure, but, that is a Hub that’s in my heart and not written down yet.

    Peace be with you all.  BL

  37. The Learner profile image60
    The Learnerposted 14 years ago

    I am a Christian.  You are right to say that we don't know for sure where we're going after life.  Here's what I say in response:

    1) I do know know WHERE I am going after life, but I do know TO WHOM I am going.  I am going to be with the Holy Triune God.  From the Bible, I know that this is going to be in "the Kingdom of God."  However, Scripture is not clear on the exact location of this place (in Heaven or established on Earth).

    2) The afterlife is not the point of being a Christian.  Believing in the death and resurrection of Christ is not a "ticket to heaven" like one might think of a train ticket or bus pass.  Instead, it is an invitation to a new life.  It is freedom from the things that once bound or controlled us (like bitterness or hatred for example.)  2 Corinthians 5:17 says "Anywone who is in Christ is a new Creation."  Being a Christian is about living in a relationship with God now -- loving God and loving other people.

    So really, WHERE I end up is not of that great of importance.  I know it will be with Christ.  Right now, I am to live out the life that Jesus embodied.

    - The Learner

  38. goldenpath profile image68
    goldenpathposted 14 years ago

    Well, although I am a minister we have no paid clergy in the Church.  It is late and I do work at a job for a living as well.  It has been a grand evening.  I've had some great discussions.  I look forward to continuing tomorrow or whenever.  If you want more indepth discussion shoot me a message and I would be more than happy to continue.

    Jewels - let's consider it a date! smile Bring a friend if you'd like.

  39. Hokey profile image62
    Hokeyposted 14 years ago

    Of course. I completely admit it and I completely agree. It is a mystery that is impossible to know just as it is impossible to know what God is. It is all a mystery. Naming things and creating stories are peoples way to comfort him(her)self to the uncertainty of not knowing the unknowable.

    1. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Smart Man.

  40. Sara Tonyn profile image60
    Sara Tonynposted 14 years ago

    Sorry! Didn't mean to abandon the discussion but sometimes real life calls!

    I'll try to catch up then pick up from there. big_smile

    1. Cagsil profile image70
      Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Just to let you know, goldenpath left. Had to sleep and go to work. smile

      1. Sara Tonyn profile image60
        Sara Tonynposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Yes, I just saw that. Maybe he can jump in again at a later time. There are lots of questions I have for him but I'll save them and move on with who is here now.

        I mean, in addition to you! big_smile

        And I want to thank you for letting the discussion go on. You've been quite a gentleman!  big_smile So thank you, Cags!

        It's really amazing how we've all avoided creating a war zone even though there is clearly a lot of disagreement.

        1. goldenpath profile image68
          goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Yes, thanks from me as well. smile

  41. Sara Tonyn profile image60
    Sara Tonynposted 14 years ago

    Hello to Jerami, Jewels, BL Tween, The Learner, and anyone else who I missed. I hope all or at least some of you are still hanging around. smile


    If so, it seems like there's a no single definition of the Garden of Eden. So far people have called it a real place on Earth, a metaphor (possibly for Heaven) and possibly a place in another dimension. (FYI, Last I read physicists think there may be at least 10 or 11 dimensions so there's plenty of real estate available! big_smile)

    Whatever and wherever it may be I wonder if the rest of us will ever experience it.

    1. Jewels profile image83
      Jewelsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      It's certainly my intention to give it a nudge in this life.  The more I can clear out what doesn't serve me, the closer I can get to 'heaven' in my own state of being, or the closer I get to my higher self.

      1. Sara Tonyn profile image60
        Sara Tonynposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Do you think you the Garden of Eden is still on Earth? Or ever was?

        1. Jewels profile image83
          Jewelsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          What I think here is conjecture as what I've experienced was not of the earth as it is now.  I personally don't believe the Fields of Peace (Heaven) is in the same physical realm or dimension as this. I understand that it's required that we collectively would have to raise our consciousness in order to have "Heaven on Earth."  It's not that difficult to do practices that raise your level of consciousness to experience the sweetness of 'heaven', or more unfallen realms.  You could say I've 'crossed over' if that's the term that's popular at the moment to be able to describe such experiences! smile  I'd prefer to describe some peoples experiences as flarings, when veils or shields are lifted so they can get a glimps.  These flarings can be one offs.  Others are able to have these experiences at Will.  Some have difficulties and require discipline and practice.  The later is the most common.

          There is no doubt however, that you can create your own heaven or Eden without death.  It requires shedding allot of conditioning and a balanced centered state of mind.  This is something not easy to attain.

          1. mohitmisra profile image61
            mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            You say you are enlightened its fine but if I say it its becomes wrong ?
            I think you are still very confused as to what enlightenment is.
            You need to practice because if you were in a god conscious state you would never try to mock me.Met enlightened ones who have only given me love and respect ,I gave it back gladly.

            Death is the door to god, your philosophy is incorrect, you dont now what the garden of eden , heaven or enlightenment  is.Stop lying to yourself and everyone else, its bad karma to spread false knowledge.

    2. mohitmisra profile image61
      mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Its is inevitable all will experience it.Its your home , only you stop yourself from going back home and no one else.

      When do I see, meet god?
      Whenever you really decide to ,
      when you want nothing.

  42. Mikel G Roberts profile image74
    Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years ago

    @EWS
    I don't find the possibilities of either an afterlife exists or it doesn't as scary either way.

    Because...

    1 If God exists, which I believe God does, then I believe that God is very smart and has a plan. I respect that and trust that. That trust(faith) gives me comfort.

    2 If there is nothing after this life, in your words we live until 70 or 90 then that's just it...
    well then there would be no memory of ever having existed, so no regret, no pain, no suffering, no geez I wish that... Just nothing, something akin to turning off a robot. Time would not pass, and I would not be a dis-embodied consciousness floating in nothingness for all time...

    My Humble Opinion.

  43. Happyontheinside profile image70
    Happyontheinsideposted 14 years ago

    I'm quite religious...though spiritual is maybe a better word. I have absolutely no idea what will happen when I die - except that life here will continue just as it always has. It's cool, the key to death is acceptance I think.

    1. mohitmisra profile image61
      mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you for being honest, very much appreciated.Hope more were like you.

  44. Jewels profile image83
    Jewelsposted 14 years ago

    mohitmisra, I have never said I was enlightened.  That is what you say you are. You need to go back to your center grasshopper and stop talking nonesense. You seem very confused as to who is what, who knows what, and who loves who and who does not. I think that almost rhymed.  Is that poetry?

    Death of Self leads to an enlightened state.  You certainly have not had that experience, otherwise you'd not be having so much trouble on this forum.  Back to center grasshopper.

    1. mohitmisra profile image61
      mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      You said you have been to heaven? what else does that mean. Also stop guiding people wrongly.You need to find your center  be truthful to yourself.

      Ask your master what poetry is ,he writes.The masters understand some  apprentices like you  do not.

      1. Jewels profile image83
        Jewelsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Allot of people have had the experience you have mohitmisra.  It's not that uncommon.  When a person learns to see and hold the connection of high presences, one then sees that 'heaven' is only one realm of a myriad of realms in nonphysical worlds.

        If you knew how to travel in non physical realms you would know that your heaven is not the limit of human consciousness.  Are you familiar with cosmology?

        1. mohitmisra profile image61
          mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          I never said I am the first enlightened one on this planet.Its not that common you mean?

          Heaven is god -enlightenment , you say you have seen heaven and yet you are not enlightened this is wrong.
          Then you say death is not needed, again this is wrong.

          1. Jewels profile image83
            Jewelsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            No, I said to have the experience of "heaven" as in that place where people say they go to at death, is not an uncommon experience.  And I mean for the living, not the dead.  Many spiritual seekers (who don't profess to being enlightened) have been able to experience it.

            And there is death and there is death.  You can have death as in your heart stops beating and you leave the earth permanently.  And there is death of your lower self.  That's a different death and is more akin to spiritual practices.  Many ways of having experiences of this light you speak of.  It's not common enmass, but to spiritual seekers it's not uncommon.  Nowhere did I mention that you say you were the first enlightened man. I'm not sure why you are saying that?  Nevermind, it's quite irrelevant.

  45. skyfire profile image78
    skyfireposted 14 years ago

    What we get in the package of enlightenment ?

    - Peace of mind ?
    - Relaxation ?
    - Answers from source or assumption by assuming source ?
    - Knowledge about what ? Salvation ?
    - What are we supposed to do with enlightenment ? charity or increase our own adsense clicks ?

    1. mohitmisra profile image61
      mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Enlightened ones should not earn  a living?

      Knowledge is liberation.
      "A person who doesn't have self knowledge is a slave " Gurdijeff

      1. skyfire profile image78
        skyfireposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        They need to ?Lol. I mean they got enlightenment to live without bonds, money, society, relationship,knowledge of universe. They're one with god and they need materialistic things or care for survival ? *cough*

        1. mohitmisra profile image61
          mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Have you heard of Krishna ? Yes enlightened ones need to eat as well.Read some good spiritual books to gain a better understanding.

          1. skyfire profile image78
            skyfireposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Lol, think rational before you preach spirituality. If you're enlighten then you're with god or what they call source. You're lonely and separated from rest of us. Loneliness is only removed with help of death as they say. Death is the only way towards god as source(god). And you say people need to eat even after their enlightenment ? How rational isn't it ?

            Besides how you deal with loneliness if you're enlightened ?

            1. mohitmisra profile image61
              mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

              First read my book before yapping so much.Read some good spiritual books .Do you think enlightened ones don't eat,? Whats your age , this is really ridiculous and childish.

              Have nice debates with many here on this forum, cannot do that with you as you have no knowledge.

              1. skyfire profile image78
                skyfireposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                And you're back with personal attack for my questions ? big_smile

                Do i need to read your 1.5$ book to know about spirituality  ? Stop kidding to me. I don't make personal remarks that makes me more knowledgeable on debates than you. And about advice on reading spiritual books? dude, read about "ramkrishna paramhans, that person shows you proof that enlightenment (aka spiritual hallucination) can keep a person without eating. You need to study your spiritual books again or continue preaching sales. big_smile

                I like your style you start to make personal remarks when you have no answer to questions. Your pattern of debate is predictable. You either preach your own stuff if it fails you start to make personal remarks or give advice about books and all. Is that all you've got ?

                1. mohitmisra profile image61
                  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  You can but the copy for1,156 USD if that is what make the difference to you.

                  1. skyfire profile image78
                    skyfireposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                    Lol, have you gone through "ramkrishna paramhansa" Mr Prophet ? wink Heard about him how he survived without food/water for days ? How he achieved that hallucinatory state(aka trance state) ?  tongue Go figure...You're here for preaching your book and you know rat's a-- about spirituality.

      2. marinealways24 profile image60
        marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

        "A person who doesn't have self-awareness isn't enlightened" "Marinealways24" big_smile

        1. Cagsil profile image70
          Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Enlightenment is a religious terminology, which is a metaphor for self-awareness/consciousness. The "sense of life" each person carries forward in their own existence is their enlightenment. Most simply don't realize it, because the scriptures that which provide "enlightenment" are out of context and/or offer vague descriptons, as "how to" become enlightened.

          Therefore- "leap of faith" is required, without any rationalized proof of existence of "GOD". smile

          1. marinealways24 profile image60
            marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Do the religious control their thoughts or do their thoughts control them?

          2. WriteAngled profile image74
            WriteAngledposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            The term "enlightenment" is used in a number of ways.

            The Age of Enlightenment refers to that period in Western history where reason was seen as the highest authority. Immanuel Kant defined enlightenment as the freedom to use one's intelligence. No religious outlook is implied here, if anything the opposite.

            To Eastern philosophy/religion, enlightenment is an experience of fusion with "something" greater than self with a temporary loss of one's individuality.

            In Western esotericism and religion, enlightenment is the experience of contact with something that, depending on the particular flavour of a person's worldview or spiritual view, is either seen as being within oneself (the Higher Self, the Higher Consciousness) or outside it (the guardian angel, God, the Cosmic Consciousness).

            1. Jewels profile image83
              Jewelsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

              Then it's official - I'm enlightened also! lol

  46. goldenpath profile image68
    goldenpathposted 14 years ago

    Just an update.  Yes, the Garden of Eden did exist on Earth.  However, it is not in it's form as it was.  Sorry if I explained as such last night.  The ground is simply there but the conditions are not.  What is important is not so much it's place in history but rather it's place in the future as a location for some of the greatest history making events to come.  I never meant to lead anyone to think that because the place is beautiful it was Eden.  On the contrary if it was trashed it could still be the location.  It is through open revelation that that particular place was made known.  Why?  So that it can be prepared for things to come.

    Also, Eden was actually to the south of the place I mentioned last night.  The location I mentioned was the place Adam dwelt with Eve when they were cast out of the Garden.  Sorry for the confusion.

    Sorry we kind of got a little off topic but I try to answer any questions posed to me. 

    I noticed after I retired to bed that a comment was made that I admitted I did not know God.  This is a fabrication and a product of an overabundance of pride for the one who claimed it.  I have, however, said that I have never been dead and therefore cannot claim with authority to have specific knowledge of that particular journey.  I can tell you what work goes on there and some of the condition based on revelation but I cannot tell you details which have little bearing on our existence now.

    1. Jewels profile image83
      Jewelsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      This is really interesting and I did sound flippant and I apologize for that goldenpath.  As an energetic place it would be an experience to tune into it and see what is there. Perhaps remnants of ancient times that can be sensed.  Could I have the directions again.  I have to retire now, our time zones don't match very well.  I'll have a look tomorrow and keep a record of what you write.  I know many people who would be interested in it.  It's likely to be 2 years before I head to the States again, so you never know I may take you up on your offer.  I'm certainly open to the experience.

      1. goldenpath profile image68
        goldenpathposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Actually documented records do give account that there was remnants of an ancient alter there from a civilization present some two thousand years ago.  This relic, unfortuneately has since been looted, desecrated and destroyed.  What a loss.  That's why I say it's not much by way of buildings but it is a place to go that's memorable and worthy to tell your children and grandchildren about. 

        I doubt it would get much traffic but I could easily compose a hub on the significance of this place and others including a place where two ancient civilizations of millions destroyed each other. 

        The place is about ten miles north/northwest of Gallatin, Missouri out in the boonies right smack in the center of the United States.  I was not aware you were a resident elsewhere.  If you don't mind might I ask from where you reside?

    2. mohitmisra profile image61
      mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Describe god.The only way is through death.

      1. mohitmisra profile image61
        mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        Many have a higher awareness level may be like you but they still dont have the god experience.

        1. mohitmisra profile image61
          mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Reborn doesnt mean changing ones religion.It means dying merging with the light and coming back.

  47. profile image0
    poetlorraineposted 14 years ago

    my belief is that from dust we originated from dust we return,  we are in god's memory....

  48. profile image0
    sneakorocksolidposted 14 years ago

    Ok, I admit you don't know. I can help but you'll have to work on your faith issues.smile

    1. marinealways24 profile image60
      marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      lol What do you mean my faith issues?

      1. profile image0
        sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        You know! If you can't touch, see, hear, taste or smell it don't exist. I'll gladly help you but you'll have to do some reading and Praying/meditating, it might be too much work for you though. Let me know if when you're serious and I'll send you a book.smile

        1. marinealways24 profile image60
          marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

          lol I like your assumptions, I can't say they are surprising.

          1. profile image0
            sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I love you regardless, just let me know!smile

            1. marinealways24 profile image60
              marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

              Would you love me if I was a liberal?

              1. profile image0
                sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Your political beliefs mean nothing to me, they only matter to our children.smile

    2. Cagsil profile image70
      Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      What happens when someone doesn't have a faith issue? smile Just curious. smile

      1. profile image0
        sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        If you have faith down pat it could be your friends, your sins and/or your master. You have to want to know! If you love your sins so much that there worth your eternal soul, then you're in a good place go with it.smile

        1. marinealways24 profile image60
          marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

          I think a sin could also be considered not being honest with yourself. Maybe you are going to eternal hell as well for your dishonesty. Not much honesty in your religion. How do I love my sins, I don't continually lie to myself to find a belief.

          1. profile image0
            sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Well I don't believe I will. I only know what I know. I'm not all that bright so I could have read it wrong but I don't think so. You won't go to hell but you may not reach the level of glory you would like to live at for an eternity. I do love you brother and I pray for you to recieve the Holy Spirit to guide you through the darkness and away from the adversary.smile

            1. marinealways24 profile image60
              marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

              Why do you assume that I am in darkness because I don't believe the bible? How do you know that I don't have stronger morals and honesty than you yourself does?

              1. profile image0
                sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                I said "darkness" as a figure of speach refering to those haven't seen the light of our Savior.

                I'm sure you are more moral and more honest than me, I am a sinner and I need the Lord's help.

                1. marinealways24 profile image60
                  marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  God can't think for you, you have to do that yourself. Have you never thought that you could be your own Savior?

                  1. profile image0
                    sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                    No. When I pray I can feel the Holy Spirit with me as real as anything I know. There's no confusion.

                    You're right he can't speak for me but he can guide me. He gave us all the right to choose, "Free Agency". You have made a choice but it's not to late to change.smile

  49. WriteAngled profile image74
    WriteAngledposted 14 years ago

    The thoughts of someone who subscribes to an institutionalised set of beliefs, i.e. a "religion", are controlled by that religion.

  50. goldenpath profile image68
    goldenpathposted 14 years ago

    Greetings to all!
    Last night's conversation wore me out.  Actually it was the switching between the conversation and working on my upcoming sermon.  Hope all is well out there on the highway.

 
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