Hi everyone, thanks for checking out this forum post.
As the title suggests, I'd like to ask you all how your traffic situation is right now, post-Panda. I got a dreadful hit (a decrease of 50%) last week from Panda but now my traffic is rising again. How's yours? Is it still doom and gloom or is it rising a little?
What are your thoughts right now, do you think traffic will increase coming to Christmas?
Im new to HP and was lost motivation to write here when I heard that Google came down hard on the site ... but some people are saying that traffic is indeed rising again and there's a lot of money that can be made..?
Difficult to say - I've had a very modest upturn, but it could either be the effect of schools going back in the US, or alternatively the EC thing.
Here's my traffic through 2012 to present. Still "doom and gloom". Some say theirs is going up now, but since the heavy Panda hit on HP of a few weeks ago mine only recovers a little and then goes back down to its new "doom and gloom" bottom.
Does this drop in traffic of mine seem to be even more that the ordinary with the Panda hit on HP of a few weeks ago?
If all or most of your previous traffic was coming from Google searches, then your graph would indicate that Google is now finding what it considers to be better answers to search queries. Have you checked your rankings to see what webpages are now outranking your Hubs for your targeted keyword phrases? Your lower traffic could be a result of Panda or just the regular Google algorithm.
Make sure that your Hubs are optimized properly. I wrote a tutorial Hub on SEO that will give you the main points to review and you should start with fresh keyword research. Without an in-depth analysis of what you are doing, it could also be that there is more competition for your topics.
Writer Fox, thank you for responding and offering your tips and suggestions. I will go look at your tutorial hub. . So, I think you are saying that all the sudden Google could even have found better answers than what all my high traffic hubs had been offering. Will do some looking into this.
No offense to WF, but that is old advice. The game has changed and if you want to move with it, you need to be looking outside of google traffic in order to garner authority with google.
Hubpages as a site has lost authority and rankings. Most of my highly placed, well optimized, SEO perfect hubs went from 1-4 in the SERPs for their given keywords to the second or third page of results overnight, and my traffic graph, which I posted earlier, looks much the same as yours does. I don't think that can be fixed with keyword research and on page optimization.
It is not that google has found "better answers." It is that the process they use to determine what they consider to be "better," has been changed. They are now using different metrics to determine "better," and whatever it is, hubpages doesn't have it. I personally think it is "site authority," and unless you are youtube or yahoo, it is going to continue to get more difficult to generate this from a user generated platform.
At the end of the day it is all about the money. The big players want their internet back.
The advice in that tutorial is not old, in fact I published that Hub on May 17, 2013. It ranks #2 on Google for a broad match 'SEO Tutorial 2013' out of 10,500,000 possible search results, and for a keyword phrase targeted by every SEO professional in the world. It outranks Google's own tutorial and the one written by Moz!
Since most of your Hubs were written several years ago, if their ranking have fallen, doing fresh keyword research is necessary to find out if you have targeted the best phrase for searchers to find your content now, to evaluate the present competition, and to uncover fresh keyword options. Keywords can be fickle. What is easy to rank for today probably will not be tomorrow.
If you don't think your rankings can be 'fixed' with keyword evaluation and on-page optimization, you might at least try an experiment on a few Hubs before you discard those suggestions.
Another thing to look at is the competition on the HP domain itself. Google will seldom show more than two or three webpages from a single site in search results, so you have to check out your competition on the HP domain before you optimize your Hubs.
On May 23, 2013, I published a Hub about rodent control. This subject has dozens of Hubs already on HP. I had to look at those and evaluate my chances of writing an article containing different information than what was currently on the site and containing better information for search queries.
My Hub now ranks #1 on Google for a broad match 'Rats Problem' out of 29,100,000 results and #1 for a broad match 'Killing Rats' out of 11,900,000 results. That Hub outranks government and .edu sites that have high authority, great inbound links and have been online for many years. Those phrases have tons of ads and have stiff competition.
HP is still a viable platform and is getting over 1/2 million unique views a day. Certainly, Google doesn't hate everything on HubPages. If you want traffic from Google, you have to address the search engine on the basis of its evaluation of a good webpage (which is not the same as the HP QAP).
I don't care when you wrote it. The advice you are giving Ms Dee is wrong. I know because I have done it and it doesn't work except for certain low volume, low value search terms such as "rats problem" which actually only has 4,930 results if you search for an exact match. You think I didn't try all the standard approaches to fix my income loss here? Now - if I could find your article for "SEO tutorial" or "how to do SEO" or "learn seo" I might be impressed, but - I can't find your article anywhere for these terms.
Hubpages has gone from 1.8 million uniques a day to 700k uniques a day. And shows no signs of preventing the slide. It may be viable for you, but - I do not think Ms Dee is going to fix her traffic loss by doing keyword research and optimizing her pages, and certainly my income loss makes it not viable for me any more. I know my keyword research thanks. That is not the problem here.
Here is a real-world example for you. I am now being outranked for the term "homemade hamburgers" by this page:
You see the words "homemade hamburgers" anywhere on that page? In the title? In the URL? In the meta description? In a search result? No amount of optimization is going to help me outrank that page.
My Hub ranks #12 for a broad match "SEO Tutorial" and is not optimized at all for the other two terms you mentioned, so will never rank for them. The fact that you would expect a Hub to rank for terms for which it has not optimized is one of your perception problems. Google is much more sophisticated than when you began publishing your Hubs and so is the competition. Using a keyword phrase with low competition is one of the keys in selecting a phrase for successful ranking, even though users search for broad match. If you are not identifying keywords with high traffic and low exact match competition, you're going about it the wrong way.
I do think Ms Dee will be able to improve the search ranking for her Hubs with the correct information to know what needs to be done.
If HP isn't "viable" for you any more, why don't you move some of your content to another venue and see if Google likes your articles any better on another website?
Why? Because I understand the changes in SEO that have been going on over the past couple of years and they will not do any better on another low authority website. I have already moved several hundred. You think I didn't try everything I could to fix my income loss here?
Low competition = low income. And finding terms that no one else is competing for is old, old advice.
Clearly you do not understand why it is now possible to rank for terms that you are not optimized for. I suspect it is not worth trying to explain it to you, because you already know everything.
Well, I do agree that your articles would not rank any better on another site without changes.
And I do know that allrecipes.com uses the words 'homemade' and 'hamburgers' over a million times on its site and features 180 hamburger recipes. You can't possibly outrank that site with a single hamburger recipe on the HP site.
FYI: I get high traffic from Google for the two Hubs I mentioned and have sold dozens of rat traps through the two Amazon links. No one in the world knows everything; but I do know how to make money on HP. If someone wants advice on writing search-successful articles on HP, they should look to the people who are doing well and ignore the people who admittedly are not.
I did until recently. And did so for several years. Therefore something has changed and it is not the optimization or keywords.
I am not interested in selling dozens of low value items. How much money do you make on HP a month? And what is "high traffic" to you?
Not sure your idea of doing well would be the same as me if you are happy with selling dozens of rat traps.
This thread is about traffic numbers from Google search in the light of the Panda algorithm. You will notice that many, many people are reporting increased traffic and others report decreased traffic. Clearly, if your Hubs don't rank well for highly searched keyword phrases, your work will not bring traffic from Google. Making money on HP is a result of traffic numbers to your Hubs and selling products. But, you can make money here without selling products, if you don't want the additional income for the 30 seconds it takes to post an Amazon product. (Selling products is a great ROI.)
Please answer my questions. Sorry you have not understand anything I have said. The overall site traffic is a disaster. Maybe they shoudl ask you to fix it.
Actually, I was answering Ms Dee's question. Sorry you have not understood anything I have said. Traffic for many people on HP is great. More than 1/2 million visitors are going to their content on HP every day.
What a shame about the other 1.3 million who have stopped coming. Please answer my questions.
I, too, would be interested in those answers.
WF has my respect because he has gone to the effort of answering a lot of queries recently, but Mark Knowles is a guru. Seriously, this guy has the experience to know what he is talking about.
He is one of the people I listen to.
It is easier to consider traffic great if you joined recently and don't remember when both traffic *and* CPMs were double what they are now.
It is simply not true that this is purely due to content on the hub. Google treats hubpages differently now.
After reviewing comments from all the hubbers here, I am just wondering no one really knows what's actually hurting the SERPs in google search results. However, I am really interested to know about your search traffic from Yahoo! and bing.
I have a medical blog, which has a Page Rank 3 from google; before the last Panda update on May 22, I regularly got a decent amount of traffic from google for many of my keywords.
I had a few keywords (e.g. "how does the nervous system work" and "how does the lymphatic system work") that were always on the no. #1 spot of the top 3 search engines: google, yahoo and bing. However, the most interesting part is that those keywords are still in the first five search results of both yahoo and bing though I am outranked by google from page 1 to page 3. In addition, you will be amazed to know that all my keywords are still on the same position in both yahoo and bing.
For the last two months, I am just getting frustrated over and over with my Google Analytics' data; because both yahoo and bing are now the top two traffic sources and google is just dead for my blog! What's going on?
I become more curious to find out the sudden awakening of two dead bodies like yahoo and bing when I saw a sudden spike in my GA data last week. Can you tell me why these two sources suddenly started sending traffic, as they never sent much traffic to my blog?
Although, my findings may not satisfy you, as they are not based on a scientific study, but I believe they will provide you some idea about what's really going on.
Have you ever used the MOZ toolbar? If not, just download it in your browser. Now go to Google and type the keywords that were ranked at the top positions before the update.
Where is your keyword now? Maybe it's in page 2, 3 or 4. Don't worry, because it doesn't matter anymore now. Just give a close attention to the first page of the search results and check the MOZ data. You will probably see all the sites in the 1st page have a domain authority between 80 and 100. Now check the page authority though it's not that important.
Have you found the key elements of this new update? If not, just open all the results of 1st page. Aren't that search results driving you to .gov, .edu, .org, and finally, .com?
Do you know how many Average Monthly Searches your keywords receive each month? If yes, just read on and if no, go to google Adwords to find out the Average Monthly Searches.
Is the Average Monthly Searches for a keyword greater than 1000? If yes, believe me or not, your keyword is now fighting with a keyword from high authority .gov, .edu, .org, or .com sites. So, there is a little chance that you will get your keyword in first page. No matter how many times you edited that post to get your keyword again in top position, you will never be able to get your position back again unless google goes back to its old algorithms.
However, if the Average Monthly Searches is lower than 500 and the keyword isn't fighting with a keyword from high authority .gov, .edu, or .org sites, then there is a chance that you will get back your position reediting your content.
Now let's get back to bing and yahoo again. Can you guess why they suddenly started sending more traffic after the Panda update? Interestingly, it's because people aren't finding what they used to find through google searches. Google is now just driving an ordinary web reader to a site that is full of academic contents. How an ordinary reader could understand what is written in an article that follows academic style?
As people always look for short and easy to read contents, many of the web searchers (according to my GA data, especially, from U.S. and U.K.) are now trying alternative search engines.
Believe me or not, it's already taking a big effect in search engine market. Now pay your close attention and see the screenshot below. For the keyword "how does the nervous system work", it had a steady growth from October 2012 to May 2013. It took the highest peak at May 2013 and just after the Panda update, from June 2013 to till now, the Average Monthly Searches significantly dropped.
Finally, I would like to say no matter how hard google team tries to manipulate things to get them in their way, the no. #1 search engine might never be successful. Because it's not the google , it's the people who determines where to search or where not to search.
I'm new as well, just two months in at this point. It hasn't affected me at all negatively. My traffic has increased pretty nicely, actually. I had 700 views on one hub on Friday/Saturday. The weekend before I had a spike as well. I'd say stick with it, just keep writing and if things truly do slow down, move your writings to another location.
That's great, congrats on getting 700 views in two days. That will never happen with my hubs but glad to hear it did with yours.
congrats johnsonrallen - what was the source of your traffic? Was the hub found in searches or was this a Pinterest interest?!
I'm beginning to think it would help to just start making new profiles and move the hubs. The reason I say this is because the newer people here aren't affected. When Google hit back in 2011, I was new and it didn't affect me then. The writers that had been here a long time were being hit like crazy. I 'm beginning to think that Google doesn't like profiles with a lot of hubs.
But I see GreekGeek wasn't hit, so I may be wrong.
I'm wondering too. I'm sure my fresh content is the reason to my Google success of late. When Panda hit, my numbers zoomed. I also think having a niche market with hubs all based mostly on one topic has caused Google to view me as an "expert."
I noticed in another thread that a lot of people complaining also admitted to not publishing much here recently at all, but had been publishing recently on other sites where their views were better. I suspect if people got together to figure out the issue rather than complaining, common variables - such as fresh content - could be discovered and accounts "fixed" to re-create the traffic.
What those variable may be is just a guess for me right now based on my own account's rise in traffic.
Your success with the latest Panda update has made me wonder, agilitymach. I am beginning to think on whether to focus on one specific niche rather than three to four. As you have mentioned, you are seen to be an expert on dog's, by Google so you rank higher in the SERPS.
I'm wondering if an author has, say, five different topic types they write about, if it wouldn't help to move those hubs into five different accounts based on topic type? I don't know, but I think if I were one of the older authors having issues, I'd try that. Then, I'd have "fresh" and niche content.
See Greekgeek's reply above - she hasn't been affected and writes on a wide variety of topics. Furthermore, she says that she hasn't written much this year, which suggests it's not a freshness issue in her case either.
I've fallen foul of a Panda update before. Nothing about my writing, my pattern of publishing or my topics changed, yet one day I was in favour, the next not. Several weeks later, I was back in favour. My traffic steadily rose for months even when other hubbers were experiencing falls - rather like you've reported - then mine started to fall. And fall. All my hubs are featured, I have an average score in the 90s and I write long, informative hubs with few Amazon capsules. I am now outranked by four sentence long wikianswers in some cases - that famous Google quality drive in action
Is it worth my while shuffling hubs around on to different accounts? I should imagine I would never, ever see a payout again.
I'm seeing a 400 percent increase in Google views. I've been here 13 months. I'm happy!!
My views have decreased though my earnings have increased. I am not sure why this should be! I think I have been pretty lucky compared to some. Disappointing to see that my Hub score has gone down but this may be because I have not any new Hub for a couple of weeks. For the first time this week I felt really down about writing on this site especially when I compared my earnings on Bubblews, I strive for quality of content on HubPages and do have a strange sense of loyalty but do wonder what the effect might be of reducing my Amazon and E-Bay ads too, After changing all my capsules I had an immediate drop in traffic and also Hub Scores. One needs to feel that you will be rewarded for your labors but I am not sure that this is the case on Hubpages.
Here's a screencap of my Jan-Aug analytics data for my main account.
So, basically, typical fluctuations, one brief social media spike, and an overall 16% rise this month compared to last month. I usually get a slight traffic dip in the summer, so that may simply be the back-to-school rebound.
I gather that my numbers are not typical for most Hubbers, however.
FWIW, nearly all my hubs are informational or tutorials, with very few Amazon capsules and only one hub with an eBay capsule. (It does get rare sales.)
Thanks for your reply, Greekgeek. Your traffic patterns are similar to mine, they go up and down from week to week. I thought I was the only one with fluctuations like that! I can see that you have not been hit too badly by Panda. It could be the fact that you have very few Amazon capsules on your hubs so Google could rank you a little higher. Do you think traffic will go up once the Summer is over and children go back to school?
Susi, as I said, my 16% uptick this month may be back-to-school rebound after a slight slackening in April. I do see this pattern every year.
Yep, a certain amount of traffic fluctuation is to be expected. There are more people awake and searching for different things at different times of the day, weekend traffic is different from weekday traffic, and summer vacation or shopping season can impact traffic trends. One good reason to use Google analytics is that you can compare the current year to previous years and get a sense of whether the patterns you're seeing are typical or abnormal.
A few more bits of data from my "Google isn't impacting this account" hubs:
-- My main account is not niche; I write on many different topics.
-- However, I do have some authority, according to Google,which adds my author info to at least some seach results. (Which is why I asked, back in Paul Edmondson's original thread on this topic, how many people with established authorship had experienced traffic drops. Unfortunately, other people with authorship DID report traffic drops, so that blew my theory out of the water: authorship doesn't seem to insulate against whatever's going on.)
-- For what it's worth, my hubs tend to be longer, broken into sections with capsule headers, proofread and copy edited for clarity.
-- Most of my hubs were written back in 2011, and I've barely written any new hubs this year. So it's not necessarily a "new content" vs "old hubs" issue.
-- I started a small secondary niche account last December with a handful of new hubs, and their traffic has been steady.
-- The common factor in both accounts is a lack of sales related content.
I'd like to know if other hubbers who haven't experienced traffic drops have few Amazon products on their hubs. That's the common factor that Paul Edmondson reported seeing when HP staff analyzed which accounts did or didn't get hit. So are they right?
I could believe that's a factor. Google is always trying to figure out searcher intent -- what people really want when they search for something -- and let's face it, most of the time when we search the web, we're looking for information not a sales spiel. (Personally, if I'm looking to buy something, my first stop is usually Amazon not Google search.)
I have a few Amazon capsules in my Hubs (for a certain book, or a product that I mention in the hub) but I do not have any sales hubs.
I have not seen any traffic loss. Since HP started their "editors choice" rankings I have had a small page view increase.
I can only answer as someone that uses Amazon AND has seen a drop. My traffic looks nothing like yours, with large hills and valleys coinciding, for the most part, with Panda updates although not all of them.
But. 25-40% of my income comes from Amazon (excepting Xmas, where it increases). It then becomes a question of whether an increasing or smoothing of traffic patterns (and the increase of income that should come with that) is of greater value than the Amazon income.
I'm experimenting with deleting many amazon products that have never sold (but may have produced clicks and sales of unrelated items) - only time will tell if that is successful or not. The biggest problem is that the removal is not easily undone with the recent rule changes in amazon capsules, so I am proceeding cautiously.
I thought the gist of that blog past was that clumps of Amazon products on Hubs that have no business showing Amazon products were the problem.
I have Hubs that rank well for their keywords on this account and others and Amazon capsules don't seem to be hurting them. They tend to be 1500 words or more, and show 5 or fewer products, spaced apart and alongside the text that talks about them.
I don't know if they'd somehow do better if they had no Amazon capsules, and I have no plans to ever find out. I think ranking for keywords that get traffic is a pretty good indicator that Amazon itself is not the problem.
Trying to compete directly with e-commerce sites is a bad idea, and I can see why Google would toss a Hub to the bottom of the barrel in that case. But people always need good reviews and opinions on products, and if I can give them the information they need and then nudge them over to Amazon (where they may have gone anyway) I can't see why search engines would have an issue with it.
I only have about three Amazon capsules on my first hubs. They don't lend themselves to my hub topics, so I've never used them. I'm one who is seeing major Google traffic increase since Panda.
I hadn't thought my lack of Amazon capsules would be the key. I may go delete the others from my old hubs as they've not garnered me a cent anyway.
Good information. And good to know. Gives me some hope because my stuff is mostly informational/tutorial, very few Amazon ads too.
I hit a lull for about two weeks (traffic dropped by around 50%). I've been active and writing for about 2 months, account is 2 years old. Well, I kind of quit writing to see what would happen, only added like 1 during the lull. I pulled out of the lull quite a few days ago, and my views have *almost* tripled. One of those hubs that's pulling the most was pulling hardly any views for the longest- then it seemed as if it went viral. All of my stats say it's google sending the traffic- and overall traffic increased to other hubs too. I guess I hit a sweet spot after the update (when they evaluated my sub) and they boosted me nicely. I rarely/never use amazon/product/affiliate links at all now as well, which they don't like. Amazon seems useless for me anyways. I'm not pulling a whole lot of traffic.... but my CPM is really, really high. I'm STILL trying to figure out exactly why it is... and my newest experiment will hopefully help me focus in on the reason that my cpm is sitting high. My traffic is still on an uphill climb. It's been going up & up since before the weekend and shows no signs of slowing yet. It'll make a gal smile quite a bit I alsoooo started pinning my hubs quite a bit, since I became VERY active on pinterest. I LOVE that site! Anyways, i'm wondering if my pinning helped. I wouldn't think so though, because that's such a small, teeny tiny bit of juice. And it's not like everyone else here doesn't promote their material on social media. OR perhaps Pinterest really is that powerful even though spammers are aggressive on that site. And I'm trying to prepare for some Christmas hubs as well! I think it'll increase GREATLY because people will be researching more for new gadgets, good presents, decor ideas, how to's, etc. Exactly what we're good for! Learning
Check this forum; http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/115492
I have provided a link over there, which will show how Google Penguin and Panda Affected Your traffic...
I've seen a number of forum posts about the loss of traffic and felt bad because I wasn't affected. I feel a bit guilty posting this because my traffic remained constant throughout and is now rising. I never saw a fall. I have the usual weekend lull but nothing drastic.
I really hope your traffic issues will be resolved soon.
It's great to hear that you weren't affected during the update, I'm sure with the top notch quality hubs that you have, Google should reward you. I wasn't very hard hit, I only had a drop for a week of about 100 views and now it is rising again back to where it was before Panda. I suppose I was lucky enough, some had major falls of up to 80%. Thanks for your kind wishes, Cardisa.
At this point it's probably important to share if your traffic hasn't suffered, because it can help others, and avoid widespread discouragement.
I completely agree, olgsinquito. At this stage, we should all stay positive. After all, the update wasn't too bad. Sure, our views could've dropped a bit, but they should rise again. Mine are already rising again.
Also, it's probably good to share information on what's working and what's not working. I was happy to see Cardisa post her traffic is still good because she has a relatively large number of hubs, so having many articles may not be a factor.
ologsinquito--yes---and that assumes that we even have enough time to recover between the NEXT Google update. They ca keep us down permanently just be doing an update every six months.
It is very discouraging, no doubt about it. My own traffic seemed to peak on August 9, and then fell off right after that. It took a nosedive when I removed a lot of Amazon capsules and other links all at once, on every single one of my hubs. Things are better now, but not at the levels they were at. Right now I am probably going to slowly add new content and SLOWLY update some of my weaker hubs. Any sudden, widespread moves seem to scare the search engines.
It would be very interesting to know out of the people who have posted here reporting a drop or an increase in their traffic, how many of them have had many of their hubs made editors choice hubs. I had a large proportion of my recent apprenticeship hubs made into editors choice and I am wondering if this was a good thing - or whether I should have opted out?
Any advice/stats would be appreciated, thanks.
Theraggededge has reported on the forum that her traffic has quadrupled.
Mine hasn't done that well, but it is up a little from what was the lowest it's been since before last summer (when I had way less hubs). (I have a significant number of EC hubs.)
I have about half my hubs as editors choice. I am also seeing a 40% increase in traffic the past week or so over the prior 3 or 4 weeks.
I have also deleted a large number of Amazon/eBay products in the last few days. No major change in traffic, but a total cessation of any Amazon purchases and a much lower number of clicks. It's too soon to know if that is normal or not as my Amazon sales are quite variable and sporadic anyway, but it IS a little scary. Amazon provides enough income that I am leery of playing with it too much...
I opted out, because I was afraid of doing anything to upset the applecart. That is, I'm afraid of how my subdomain's Panda ranking might change if the best content is removed from my subdomain.
However, I wouldn't be surprised if some of those whose subdomain has shed most of its traffic might see better traffic if their hub was an Editor's Choice, which switches it to a new subdomain.
A lot of my recent apprenticeship hubs are EC, and my traffic has really improved. In fact, I've never had traffic this good, and it was dire before the EC move.
In my case there is no correlation between Amazon capsules and traffic. I've only recently started writing Amazon hubs, all of these are now EC, and they get the most traffic. Most of the hubs on my subdomain are Amazon and Ebay free. I removed Amazon from my "info" hubs, because I wasn't getting any clickouts. However, traffic to my subdomain is still bad, and for the keywords that I check my rankings are much lower than they used to be.
Removing the "sales" hubs from my subdomain should have helped it, if Amazon modules were the problem.
I should mention that my "sales" hubs are not very Amazon heavy in themselves. They probably have 3-5 Amazon products each, and are quite long.
My views have suddenly risen and I'm feeling a little more encouraged.
The last Google Panda update was July 18 – 28, and was a change in the algorithm to "soften" the effects of previous Panda updates on sites falling within the grey-area of Google's evaluation. You can read more about that in this forum thread:
If you noticed changes in your traffic sent from Google during/after this update, Google Panda is the reason.
In my experiments on HP, I have found that you can rank a Hub high on search engine results for competitive keyword phrases, in spite of the site's overall traffic problems. In many ways you have to use techniques to overcome being on the HP platform.
My Hubs are doing well in search rankings and traffic. A Hub I published a month ago is still climbing in its ranking position for competitive phrases, but is still getting 100 – 135 visits a day sent from Google. I've only published one new Hub in August, but my traffic is up 186% since July 21st. And I make a lot of Amazon sales (rat traps and swim suits are doing well for me this month).
Remember that HP is still getting over 1/2 million unique visitors a month and those visitors are finding Hubs. You have to use solid SEO techniques for your Hubs to be found by people searching on Google, and this is especially true when you write on HP.
I am fairly new to Hub Pages and at present I only have one Hub published. I am a little apprehensive about whether or not to put a lot of effort in getting more hubs given the issues with traffic that everyone seems to be having here.
With that said however, it seems like a few of the longstanding Hubbers still see reasons to stick it out and are finding solutions. That does give me hope.
In my humble opinion I think it is just a case of continuing to publish high quality, user friendly content. That is all Google wants really.
Don't be discouraged by the doom and gloom. If you write great, high quality hubs, you will definitely get plenty of traffic. A little keyword research will help you get search traffic, too. There is no reason to write no more hubs, keep writing and you will get plenty of views. HP is still an excellent place to write for and still gets plenty of traffic every day.
77% drop for me. Its now down to zero. (Sad face here). I would love to think im writing stuff others want to read. But Im not basin it off of that.
Mine is resting at an all time low. I always noticed people asking this question and thought they were just unlucky. Now its my turn.
susi10 It's hard not to be discouraged. Just writing high quality hubs isn't enough anymore. I have some that used to get a lot of views every day. Well, no more. I continue to write, but there is no guarantee that we will get plenty of views. HP is a good place to write, but it's not paying very well right now. Somehow, HP has received a big slap from Google.
Victoria, I am in the same boat as you and feel the same way. However, I'm even to the point where I'm not posting any more hubs. Doesn't seem like I'll get any readers.
I know. It's hard for me to keep writing hubs, but I'm trying to do a few per month, hoping that things will get better. We'll see, huh?
Victoria, Good for you to keep posting some hubs! Yes, waiting with you to see what happens.
Yes you are most definitely correct in what you are saying, Victoria and as you have mentioned, HP is not doing as well as it used to. Whilst traffic may be small, it is still something but in no way what it was.
I have written a couple of lenses for Squidoo in low-competition niches, and I have received no views on any of them. So, I unpublished them and transferred them to HP. Combined together, those few articles brings me in at least 50 plus views a day. Whilst others have had success on Squidoo, my articles there were bringing nothing. So, I suppose HP is still doing better than any other writing site. Whilst I could be getting double the traffic a few years ago, at least I am getting something.
Thanks for your response Victoria and I agree with you. Do you think HP will ever recover to what it was?
Just talk to any of the writers who have been here for years.
Google has stopped sending traffic to my hubs that used to get hundreds of daily views. Fortunately, both Bing and Yahoo are sending more traffic than ever.
Traffic seems to be bad for everybody on Squidoo and other platforms. The only ones that are saying their traffic is up is those who have their own websites.
I had beginner's luck on Squidoo, but nothing since. I'm now considering moving several lenses related to one topic onto a new web site. Still thinking about the domain name.
I think G may have shot itself in the foot a little because many adsense publishers (such as hubpages) are getting a lot less views! I have noticed my cpc and number of clicks go up on the same volume of traffic on my own small sites so I guess the Google Adwords side of the business has been hurt - a lot! Small comfort, I know but maybe a sign that G will rethink?
susi10 I have no idea if HP will recover. I sure to hope so. I came after the "glory days," after the infamous Panda. Things seemed to improve after that slowly. I did well--for nearly 2 years things were going up, up, up--and bam. I've never seen or heard of it being this bad. I'd be interested in what Mark Knowles thinks and some of the other hubbers who have been here longer than I have.
We can hope.
Hey, does anyone know if they still have the success stories on HP--all those people making hundreds or even over 1000K per month? I'm curious. Guess I'll search . . . .Wonder if they're updated. LOL.
No they are not updated, and won't be for obvious reasons.
These were genuine earnings, from hubbers who were doing really well.
Again, in the glory days of HP.
Now I have been guilty of putting the site down in the past, but am not about to do that now.
We hubbers are only as good as the site is in the eyes of Google.
This is the PLATFORM we write on.
If Hubpages are at long last implementing the much-talked-about and much-longed-for "quality control", then it can only be good for the platform at the end of the day.
OK so things are on a slide at the moment, for most of us.
I would not recommend moving content at this stage in the game, regardless of its featured status.
As writers, we can easily write afresh for new platforms.
If Hubpages goes out of business tomorrow, we still own the content we supplied, (and it will still be available for viewing through the web archive, where we can copy and paste it to new sites).
Google's results are pretty awful at the moment. That means there will be changes ahead.
So leave your content here. Not forgetting that if everyone removed their stuff, there will be nothing left on the site.
Those feeling success just now will suffer, even if HP remains a viable platform.
I get pissed off at those hubbers reporting increased views at a time like this, but if I was in their position I would do the same. (have done in fact).
If some people are seeing increased views, then the platform is not out on a limb. There is hope for all of us.
I want these people to continue posting about their successes. It is good for morale.
As for the losers? Well, I spent the best part of 3 years writing daily for HP, only to see most of my hard-grafted work idled under the new HP auspices.
The rest do not even begin to take up the slack. It worked, then it didn't.
That is not to say it won't work again.
My content stays, I suggest your does too.
I have tried to find this out, because at the begining of my writing online I was drawn by an add from hubpages about the top ten places online to make money writing. But I dont see that anymore.
Its curious. As the manager of a few forums I always think, if I got thousands to my website I would never leave it. But more and more its us users who are left to wonder, "should I maybe write about the death of blogging?", I know HP staff is here, and we all feel there presence, but it just seems that new exciting things are not showing up here. New features and programs. Etc etc.
There should be like site news, and new features not just the same old battle cry of, why are we not getting noticed anymore.
We all hate to think of any site we love as a sinking ship, but if HP is one, im riding this baby to the bottom of the sea. You know what I mean?
Do they still even have the success stories posted? I know they were real. I just wondered if they were still there.
I will be leaving a lot of my content here. I may move a few poems for now.
I do not think that the success stories page is still there, there used to be a success story link on the signed out HP home page featuring Marye Audet and many others. I do wish the link was still there because I would like to know which Hubbers are the biggest earners. I vaguely remember the link ending with 'success' or 'success-stories'. Having typed those into my address bar, yielded no results so I guess it isn't there any more.
The success stories were largely decimated by the previous Panda slaps. HP left the graphs up for longer than they should have done but all they showed were huge drops.
One of the success stories has written honestly and openly about how her traffic disappeared.
At the end of May, there was a Penguin update. That is when my traffic started to drop
"How's Your Traffic Situation post Panda"
It muddles along... Just like me.
My traffic seems to be going up again. Hope it stays there. I plan to do more publishing soon so hopefully that will help matters.
Google hates my work as I am affected very badly every time there is an update. It's soul destroying.
In the past I have tweaked, edited, removed weakest hubs....you name it I have tried it. Nothing seems to make a difference for me. I have been down to around 20 views a day for weeks and it's staying like that.
I have one 'Editor's Choice' hub so HP isn't that impressed with me either. My stats haven't been updated for 40 hours which isn't unusual at weekends and I have often wondered why that should happen.
I am not greatly SEO savvy and words like algorithms scare me. I am a writer and have put a lot of hard work into my hubs. I feel somewhat stupid now for having taken so much time to perfect this and that. It has made no difference to me in terms of stats or revenue.
Basically I give up! I might write a hub now and again purely out of my love of writing but I expect nothing because that's what I have been getting for so long.
I've been on HP a little over two years. My traffic is dismal, my earnings are way off, too.
I had opted out of Editor's Choice cause I didn't want the pressure. That may have been a mistake; now I have to wait to opt in.
Also, I think I'll get rid of the Amazon capsules as I never get any sales from them anyway. If I have to go in and edit out my Amazons, wonder if I should also get rid of eBay????
I'm open for suggestions.
I may be shooting myself in the foot, but here goes.....
See, ive thought a long time about making a place like this that is new and fresh. A place we can all start over in. A life raft of sorts. Dont get me wrong. I can program html and have several places to put a high traffic place like that. But then I wonder, should I? The question gets worse when I think of my loyalty. I spend a lot of time reading hubs, more than I spend making them. But even though i am just a sapling in forest of redwoods, I have loyalty to HP.
I just wonder some days if it makes financial sense to move out.
What if HP comes into glory again? Then I will have gone and made a new place only to find no one comes along with me.
I am then left in the dust.
But what if it goes down? And I loose time to gather survivors and bring them to my new land?
That too has kept me awake at night. Hubpages is the first site that accepted me. And I am here for HP. Even if that means to the end. Or into the new restoration. So post panda, do we all become relics of the past, or phoenix's that rise out and burn bright once more?
That is a gamble that few of us know how to wager on.
So all that is left is for us to place our bets.
I'm into loyalty, too, but we can't depend just on HP if we need to make money. I'm spending more time on other things right now, while doing some still on HP. I'm going to hang around and wait to see what happens. Time will tell.
Well lets face it, things can not be as bad as the captcha when you send someone an email from HP. I mean come on 35 tries and I didnot pass?
That thing is a pain in the neck.
And HP told me my message was too short. WTH? I was answering a simple question. But that was not good enough. So, I recited the poor guy some song lyrics to get past the filter.
LOL I got mad and emailed captcha. And the audio version is so strange I didnot want to participate.
Traffic on HubPages was 905,955 unique visitors yesterday with 1,442,650 page views. That's more than twice the traffic of competitor squidoo.com. HP is now ranked the #100 website in the world for traffic. So, the opportunities do exist on this site.
There are still some problems, especially with the QAP ratings and new style tips. HP is doing a better job of eliminating the junk but still cannot identify a Hub with Google-quality potential.
Even so, many people are reporting increased traffic recently. Traffic to my Hubs increased by another 50% in just the past two weeks.
My main account has picked up a little. Better than continuing to slide south.
Starting to get into the money-grubbing again, regardless.
But does anyone have any idea as to why, at a time like this, some people should be totally unaffected, some people see a rise in traffic, whilst others practically get no views...suddenly. I am not talking about generally because it's obvious no two people will be the same, but after an update?
It's even worse when you have been one of the hardest hit and you still read about some people who are seeing an increase...you naturally ask yourself why you should be polar opposite. What doesn't Google like about me for instance but has no bones to pick with someone else? There's got to be a reason for why it affects only a portion ( seems like the majority though). You would think if HP is being hit then everyone would be affected regardless.
I remain on around 20 views a day on 78 hubs...been like this for weeks.
I have earned $1.63 so far this month.
Meloncauli, were you one of the Hubbers whose higher traffic hubs were featured on Hubpages topic pages? If so and they were ranking in the searches on the hubpages topic page rather than on your subdomain and google change caused them to revert to being indexed on your subdomain, this could be the reason for your sudden downturn in traffic.
This has certainly happened to me with two of my highest earning hubs which were averaging about 150 + views per day between them and earning from the amazon capsules on the page. Now I am lucky to be getting 10 - 15 views between those two hubs as they are back indexed on my subdomain. Of course this has also resulted in a loss of sales for HubPages from those two hubs as well as me so it is in their interest to get those hubs back featured - but they have not been chosen as editors choice.
Some of my hubs have been featured as editors choice and my highest earning hub which was featured on topic pages not on my subdomain, lost all its traffic in the same way when the google change happened. Now that it has been given editors choice status, it has regained its ranking, traffic and earnings.
The point I am trying to make is that frustratingly for you, it almost certainly does not have anything to do with the quality of your hubs, just where they are now indexed. I think this accounts for why some people have not been affected and why others have been hit very hard.
Thanks Alison. When I check out my anxiety related hubs on HP's topic pages, I found so many of mine sitting there in the top thirty or so. Is this what you mean? Is there anything I can do about it? Sorry if I have misunderstood and thanks again
meloncauli, I don't think it would matter where a hub appears on the topic page because if the hub was indexed on the topic page, when the link was clicked in the search results, it would take you direct to the hub, not the topic page.
The main reason is that your keywords rank just dropped and they are now replaced by posts from high authority sites.
Like a friend of myne recently said, good of Google to f up a 2 car parade.
That being the case, I think that the reason for some peoples rise and others to fall back, is relevence. The people on the rise write content that may be close to exactly the same as others. Only the ones rising are writing content that happens to be more specific to what is searched more worldwide under that category.
I also get the impression that Googles web crawlers are not digging deeper in HP as much as they used to. And I dont know for sure but there internal rankings that put you in a certain place in a seach engine may also decide so by the age of the content. And how long ago it was visited.
Of course I could be so far off I need a map to get back, but I dont think im very off, in my estimates.
Maybe if we all want more traffic we have to search out search quary rankings on google and review the sites listed top. Then just make content a hair more exact to the search than the top people.
Honestly, you should listen to the cats, lol.
Actually my impression (and that's all that it is) is that the problem is exactly the opposite.
That Google has convinced itself that it can now do the "semantics search" or whatever you call it. In other words that it "understands" the intent behind the query, rather than just matching it to the keywords in the page.
I think Will gave an example of a homemade hamburger hub of his that is now outranked by an allrecipes page that doesn't have the keywords in it anywhere.
If this is true, then it really makes keyword research and on-page SEO a lot less effective. I think for a while a successful strategy was to try to find keywords that had search volume, but that high authority sites didn't optimise their pages for. Google would choose your hub over the high authority page, because you were optimised for that kw, and they weren't.
Now Google will choose the non-optimised page, if it is roughly over the same topic. So the rich get richer, and hubbers get poorer.
I am not sure if this is the case, but I've been looking at the top of SERPs for a lot of the keywords which I used to rank for, and the results often don't have the keyword in the title. To be honest, a lot of the time, the results don't really fit the query very well, so I don't think Google "understands" language as well as it thinks.
For example it will return the wikipedia "frog" page for a query on "types of frogs". The wikipedia page is v. general. It doesn't really answer the query. It has a list and links to all the frog families (more than 20) in the scientific classification. I don't really think this is a very good result for the query, because a searcher would have to read over 20 wikipedia pages to get what he wants (although if somebody did that, they would get a much more thorough overview of the frog world than from reading my hub, it would just take them ages).
But I think this is one of the problems, that Google is now happy to return a general high authority result to a specific query, rather than a hub which directly answers the specific question.
A lot of people used to laugh at me (and still do, for various reasons) when I said that I never use exact match terms when searching for keywords, always broad. The reason, is that during one of the Market Samurai tutorials it states that when pages are new they will be ranked for exact match, but over time your site (or sub) will be ranked for a broad match if your sub (site) uses synonyms and relevant keywords across many pages.
Perhaps this is what we are seeing now. Particularly with sites like allrecipes (they probably have an abundance of burger recipes) and even if the query is not exactly matched by the results, Google may have decided that the site as a whole (with relevant links) can answer the query better than an orphan page with the exact keywords. Just an thought!
You're on the right track
The allrecipes site has 53 webpages which use the exact match, keyword phrase "homemade hamburgers" and 2,230 pages show in the Google index for the broad match on that website. As I posted previously on this thread, the broad match is found over one million times on that website.
A search on Google for the keyword phrase will bring up this landing page:
The reason for that is that the landing page is a 'hub' (not to be confused with HubPages or hubs on this site). Identifying hubs is a premise developed by Jon Michael Kleinberg, PhD and professor of computer science at Cornell University, MIT and IBM Almaden Research Center.
His work was further enhanced by the founders of Google with a mathematical formula (algorithm) in the research paper published at Stanford University:
http://nlp.stanford.edu/IR-book/html/ht … ies-1.html
The allrecipes landing page for hamburger recipes is considered a hub just like many pages on Wikipedia have the hub authority, too. (No topic page on HubPages.com is optimized to be a hub authority.)
As I posted previously, it would be difficult for a single article on HP to outrank allrecipes for any hamburger recipe.
A search for US results of the exact match (which the typical searcher doesn't use) shows on page five of the results: a dating site (seriously!), a bubblews post, and the baby-gaga forum before you come to a HubPages article and it is written by mocrow.hubpages.com, not Mark Knowles. That's as far as I cared to look at the results.
A search for US results shows no AdSense ads, which means if it were ever a good keyword phrase to target, no advertiser thinks it is today. There are, however, ads for the broad search phrase.
So yeah, my traffic is spiraling into the abyss. Really, I'll be keeping tabs on the site, but I don't expect I want to write here while my traffic is going down like that. Not really motivated. After all, what guarantees that any new hubs I write won't get trapped down with the rest?
I asked my cats what this traffic stuff was all about and they said it was all a question of Google's new Panda softening algo and could they have BBQ Tuna next time I go to Tesco's.
The cats usually nail it.
There was a rather dismal, minority opinion from the dead rat outside, though.
'None of you can write and you all deserve to join me in the gutter.'
Just to be serious for a moment. The most obvious thing that this thread has brought to light is how much confusion Writer Fox has sown on this site in the last couple of months.
He has not had a Panda hit, probably because the vast majority of his pages are only a couple of months old (Panda gives you a chance at the beginning).
Because he has never had a Panda hit he has no understanding of what is going on.
He seems to believe that sudden massive traffic loss reported by many people is down to other sites improving and that you can optimize your pages to get out of the problem. This is absolute nonsense. As is the stuff about bots not crawling the site (publish a page, see how quickly it gets picked up by search engines).
So just to say a few obvious things:
HP is a powerful site with a lot of link juice.
If it were suffering no penalties, ranking demerits or other impediments we would all be getting a huge amount of traffic.
Panda downgrades the ranking of sites with poor quality content. It works at domain, sub and page level, which is the reason that different people see different outcomes after a Panda run.
We will only get away from Panda when the content quality improves.
The recent spam warning from Google indicates that indiscriminate use of affiliate links is a big issue and one that everyone should look at.
OK. I know it was a waste of time pointing out these simple truths because they will be ignored. At the same time I will feel better when I make fun of the nonsense currently running through this site in huge torrents.
So buying a cat was a waste of time? Sheesh. Last time I follow your advice.
Sorry, Mark but you will need the rat.
The rat is guru.
That was the hidden meaning in that post.
All my posts from now on will have hidden meanings.
Which I will change at regular intervals.
Mark, perhaps it's because I haven't read all your hubs, but I've always been confused about how exactly you thought SEO would work for your material, and why you think Google should be sending you traffic.
What keywords are you aiming for?
And I am not saying this is a nasty way, I really like your stickmen, rants and sarcasm. I just don't think this is what people search for.
For example, I get a lot of my "politics" from the internet. I love reading about how terrible politicians are, etc. etc. But I get this from twitter, liberal conspiracy, guardian op ed pages, etc. etc. I go to these sites directly, not from Google search.
I usually use Google when I want to find out something quickly, how to do something on a computer, a fractal tutorial, when I'm daydreaming about getting another frog/lizard and want more info/pictures, etc.
I just can't imagine what people would search for, to land them on your pages. Perhaps I'm just ignorant and you have researched this further than I, and maybe you have written more "search friendly" pages. It seems to me though, that your main problem is not that Google doesn't like your stuff, but that your stuff is not really "searchable" and you need followers rather than organic traffic.
Which of your pages do you think should be getting search traffic, and for what keyword?
Hi aalite - it was just a throwaway line. I know as much as I need about SEO - enough to know it isn't really my thing. I am still thrashing about trying to produce content that once found, people might stick with.
HP don't enable that anyway because all over my pages they put links to anything but the stuff I have written. I don't want / am not capable of producing anything useful, except by accident.
So I just carry on drawing and joking and trying to get better at producing a chunk of entertainment that might get shared. That's about it really.
But I was just joking / playing with Will that's all.
Yep I realise that you were joking there. But you've often expressed your frustration with Google. I just don't your material is googleable.
It is useful, it makes people smile. But it is not useful to people with a problem or a question who are googling for an answer. Some of them might still get distracted and enjoy the content, others will bounce. Depends on how urgent their query was.
For your "link" problem, taking readers off your page. I wonder if it will help if you can figure out how HP picks out the links. I'm assuming it's by category, so if you can find a category with very few hubs, that still fits your topic, and put all your hubs there, perhaps the links underneath will be your own hubs.
I definitely agree about this site being under a penalty, I think it was (maybe partially) lifted from March 18th-May9th, and traffic was much better.
The hugely disheartening thing about this is that HP has been on a quality drive for about a year. It doesn't seem to be working v. well. Perhaps it's because the affiliate links issue is only now being handled (possibly it wasn't an issue a year ago).
If all the QAP and the idling that's been going on for a year isn't removing the low quality enough for Google, then what is the answer? I guess the threshold for being indexed could be raised, but it's possible that it would devastate the site leaving very few (relatively speaking) hubs published, which would decrease the power of the platform.
I have to say that whenever I use the old hopper (which only shows hubs that pass the QAP) I am not overly impressed with the overall newly published hubs. A lot of them are creative writing (which might be very good but I am not sure they impress Google very much). Of course there are occasional hubs that are excellent.
Will, At least your perspective helped me, one who is quite ignorant of SEO. Thanks for explaining some of the basics as applied to Writer Fox's comments.
The principles pf SEO are not that difficult, honestly!
Searchengineland is one of the most reputable SEO sites around and has good resources.
This is the start of their well known 'Periodic Table of SEO' series:
Of course, Google make the details hard to understand, deliberately, so that their search algos are hard to game. They also change the rules at regular intervals which leaves most people playing catch up most of the time.
@Will Writer Fox runs SEO for about 18 sites , and his SEO article is on first page Google. What do you think?
By Will's admission, he is confused by statements I have posted "on this site in the last couple of months."
The Google Panda algorithm analyzed my Hubs and everyone else's. The last update to the algorithm that wrapped up on July 28th and gave Agilitymach a 400% increase in views of her Hubs, gave me a 201% increase and Wilderness reports a 40% increase. The overall HubPages site received a 19.06% increase.
Optimizing your content is the key. Will thinks that "is absolute nonsense" because he doesn't understand what optimization is and he doesn't understand that the most significant optimization takes place within the on-page content. He appears to find comprehension challenging, as in his erroneous statement about "about bots not crawling the site."
Will obviously has no understanding how to pull a site out from under a Panda hit because he doesn't work as a professional SEO. But for writers on HubPages, don't pay attention to the gloom and doom. You can individually overcome any perceived disadvantage to your articles published on HP by following the methodology Google recommends for success on its search results rankings for your keywords.
Take advantage of the new Google keyword tool. It's far more powerful and reliable and I guarantee that your competition is in there right now checking it out. It's going to be a significant game changer.
And although W. Aspe "will feel better when I make fun" of postings, if you are on this forum for serious advice, I'll be happy to give you some and many other posters will be helpful as well.
Writer Fox, I would be really grateful for some advice - and I will take it and apply it too! I think I write well but I know this isn't enough and I really (I mean REALLY) want to succeed.
'The overall HubPages site received a 19.06% increase' after July 28th Panda run.
The graph below is for June, July and August. Where is this 19% increase? You couldn't possibly mean that little spike could you? Those spikes are a feature of Panda runs and mean nothing except there is a Panda run.
'Wilderness reports a 40% increase.'
Wilderness was talking about the impact of EC hubs after his Panda hit.
You cannot read a graph and you cannot listen to what other people say. You did not get a Panda hit so, somehow, nobody else did... lol.
And that is the most important point -- different people have different experiences on each Panda run because Panda impacts the domain, sub-domains and pages separately.
Until you can grasp the fact that site traffic fell sharply (study that graph) after the last Panda and that many individuals have suffered greater percentage falls than the site as a whole, no one should take anything that you say seriously.
Incidentally, your pages are so new, Panda would have passed them over. Your hit will be in a few months.
As usual, you are mistaken Will. This is the correct traffic graph for HubPages since the last Panda update. Notice the 19% traffic gain since July 28th.
"Incidentally, your pages are so new, Panda would have passed them over. Your hit will be in a few months." – That's not how it works Will. Do some more research on how Google algorithms work.
'Notice the 19% traffic gain since July 28th. ' lol.
How can anyone stand by such a delusional argument in the face of all the evidence?
Almost all of the old established hubbers saw a massive decline (30, 40, 50 per cent) after the Panda run on the 28th. People with a preponderance of newer pages fared better. A small number of people did well.
In the last few days, there has been a noticeable uptick especially if you look at global traffic rather than US traffic (though only US traffic really matters much money-wise). This uptick might turn into a worthwhile recovery.
But to say that the recovery of the last few days has anything to do with the Panda run of 28th July is just mad.
Besides, I thought your position was that the rise and fall of traffic on this site was all down to on-page optimization, lol.
28th June? July? And I'm thinking the uptick if there is one happened yesterday.
Take a look at the calendar. The upsurge of the past few days is from the Panda refresh of the update. Same time next month, too. Really, why don't you know this stuff?
Many of the Hubs that have been here a long time are the reason the Panda algorithm was invented in the first place. HP staff is slowly going through all those old Hubs and applying the QAP that all recent Hubs have endured. But when (and if) all of your old Hubs pass QAP, they still have to pass the Google Raters rubric for on-page optimization to be successful on search results, which is a very different standard for quality content.
They are people all over the world who are hired to evaluate webpages based on search queries. The Search Quality Rating Guidelines is a document of about 500 pages and is private, but Google recently made public a condensed version that you can find online:
http://static.googleusercontent.com/ext … elines.pdf
I always thought the Google raters' job was to evaluate whether an algorithm change improves search results, rather than evaluate web pages per se. Matt Cutts actually tweeted to that effect when potpie girl suggested that raters could directly influence a page's ranking http://www.potpiegirl.com/2011/12/matt- … bunked-me/
So I am confused by "all of your old Hubs pass QAP, they still have to pass the Google Raters rubric for on-page optimization to be successful on search results"
Also, what is the "Google Raters rubric for on-page optimisation"? On page SEO is about making it clear to the search engine what the page is about, rather than the quality of the page. So for example using a witty title might actually make a page amusing for readers. However, from the point of SEO it would be bad practice, you should write a title that clearly says what the page is about, so the algorithm can figure it out.
Unless your definition for on-page SEO is different from mine. SEO=search engine optimisation. You want to make sure a computer algorithm "knows" what the page is about. You also need to write content that is useful for people and pleasant to read, but these are two slightly different things.
Sorry, aa lite I should have read your post more carefully before. It might make my post above irrelevant.
You seem to have hit the nail on the head. For most people on-page optimization is just about making sure search engines knows what a page is about. So keywords in title and summary, maybe a picture caption, a few synonyms etc.
For WF it seems to mean something entirely different, something to do with Panda-proofing, perhaps -- or maybe it is the whole basket of stuff from article quality, to freshness, to titles, to headers, to ad placement etc etc, which is a running together of items that is bound to lead to pointless confusions.
Maybe, he will explain.
"The data they generate is rolled up statistically to give us within the Google search team a view of the quality of our search results and search experience over time, as well as an ability to measure the effect of proposed changes to Google’s search algorithms. Raters’ judgments do not directly impact Google’s search result rankings. While a rater may give a particular URL a score, that score does not directly increase or decrease a given website’s ranking. Instead these scores are used in aggregate to evaluate search quality and make decisions about changes."
On-Page optimization includes everything on a webpage, including how well you write and create a user experience.
Wow. You said something that actually helps to clarify what is going on. This is another wonderful step forward!
Soon you will be be trying to communicate clearly, rather simply trying to impress the newbies.
Can we go one stage further?
Can you give us your insights into which of this very broad definition of on page SEO (quote: includes everything on a webpage, including how well you write and create a user experience) is most important?
p.s. where is the Google reference about a one month lag between Panda data collection and the re-ranking of sites and pages? I am excited to read about this!
Exactly, so we don't actually have to pass any Google Raters rubric for on-page optimization, Google Raters have no say in how well we rank (except indirectly by providing the data to help Google decide whether to implement an algorithm change or not.
And I just call writing well, writing well. I guess it could be called "optimization".
I wish I could believe that Google can actually tell good writing and thorough, useful information from trash. I'm sure we've all seen some utter trash rank well (wiki answers anybody?). It is an algorithm after all, and they still have a lot of work to do before they can really tell good content from trash.
Okay, we have moved on.
You now seem to accept that many people suffered massive traffic loss at the end of July as a result of a Panda run.
The changes in traffic had nothing to do with on page optimization.
Now, we only have the issue of when the data was collected that led to the decline.
In many ways, of course, it is irrelevant exactly when the data was collected -- massive traffic loss is massive traffic. But if you have some solid reference from Google saying that there is a month long delay between Panda data acquisition and re-ranking, I would be enthralled.
Speaking of recent times, rather than spurious histories, I seem to have had a little boost over the past few days, as far as traffic goes.
I would generally agree with all those pertinent points above by the way. Writer Fox is either wholly or partially incorrect on a number of issues, in my humble opinion, as highlighted by Will and earlier, Mark Knowles.
I read that Google raters evaluate if a page is good or bad or spam.
Early days, but I'm also seeing a significant increase in both traffic and CPM today
About 7-8 weeks back my traffic hit its lowest. Afterward, it doubled once articles got indexed in my domain name due to some change by Google. Now the traffic has grown almost 4 times my lowest in the last 2 days, may be due to another update by Google. So I am back with almost same traffic that existed some 2 years ago.
Practically all my articles are written without bothering about key words, density, outward links, inward links and what not. My highest read article does not even have a picture; no video link.
It may be that Google went all around the universe to change something for better and not finding anything, reverted to what was good enough earlier! (at least as for as my case is concerned!)
Maybe all of you know how badly ezinearticles.com hurt since the first panda update. Just having a feeling that maybe this time Google is about to punish HP and other content directory type sites.
I think your *feeling* is a bit late! Hubpages has been punished by Google many times over since the first Panda. Take a look at the Quantcast graph from Jan 2011 - the peaks and troughs are very clear to see.
I tweaked some of my hubs over the last couple of days. It hasn't done a scrap of good! Think I will take yet another break and see if this blows over - yet again!
meloncauli, Same here. My recent tweaking hasn't made any difference whatsoever, either.
Good heavens, everyone is doing that rude dance now.
Will, That was before I'd seen your counter-opinion to what Writer Fox advised.
Well, it never does any harm to update stuff and improve it. Accounts do recover.
In the meantime, you could start a new account if you wanted to. I have one doing well after only a couple of weeks.
Hmm, now that's a thought. But, I bet one cannot unpublish from the old account and republish in the new. Bummer!
There is no reason to not do that, except having to wait for the old hub to be de-indexed, so it doesn't come up as duplicate content.
I think it is possible to speed things up by asking Google to remove something in Webmasters Tools, although I have never done that.
On the other hand, people are reporting traffic improvements, and quantcast is showing an uptick, so possibly there has been another update and HP is doing better. Or maybe it is the result of removing Amazon links?
aa lite, That's true, once de-indexed then there'd be no duplicate problem. I'd already pared down my Amazon links some months ago, and I am not yet experiencing any uptick.
So maybe in a round about way, someone should write an infohub regarding how to imporve traffic.
Or how to do all the things everyone talks about.
I think if we all have improved traffic hubpages improves, etc etc.
Im still curious to know why the staff dont weigh in.
Whatever advices one can give today becomes obsolete by the time Google does the next update!!
This is something else I don't understand. There's a lot of unrest on HP at the moment and I do wish HP staff would clarify things or participate openly a bit more....a bit more transparency eh?
If they (HP staff) provide us with advice and then it turns out not to work or worse causes penalties you can imagine the depth of excrement they would be left in... best for them they keep their mouths shut.. at least if i were their boss that is what i would tell them... point everyone at what google wants...
They dont know any better than most of the other people on here.. just produce what the reader wants and do it well.. maybe the traffic fairy will come and wave her wand..
Thanks, now im searching for a traffic fairy egg on google. LOL.
"just produce what the reader wants and do it well"
That's exactly why I joined the apprenticeship. To produce articles that don't have too much competition and do them well!
I would like to hear more from the staff, too, about all this.
There was a pre-emptive announcement here:
My husband and I took a short vacation for a couple of days. Upon our return, my traffic has gone up a bit. Maybe I should keep ignoring it. That might be the charm. Ha. Ha.
My traffic is the lowest I have ever seen this Summer , is this supposed to happen or am I the only one? How's your traffic?
that's right... the rise and fall are all part of the game.
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