Is it Kosher to Publish a Hub that Critiques another Hub?

1. 70

   Travis Wakemanposted 9 years ago

   In terms of philosophy or theology something like this:
   
   X is a mistaken position for reasons A,B,C. This Hub is an example of that position, lets do a point by point dissection of it (while not infringing on copyright) while pointing out the problems in their reasoning.
   
   Is that doable? Will it get approved?
   
   Can it make mention of another hub at all? Even if the focus was more on presenting than on critiquing, would it be okay to publish a hub like that?

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   1. 87

      Cardisaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      The last person I knew did that is no longer with HP. Let's say such a thing is not recommended. If you have a point to make, do so in the comments. If you want to write a hub on the subject do so without actually criticizing another hubber.

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   2. 93

      davidlivermoreposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I have made hubs that elaborate or clarify points I read in other hubs.  I don't mention those hubs, I just make a better hub.

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   3. 0

      swilliamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Hi! Welcome! I like your profile picture, that looks exciting! Well, at least you asked the question however think about it, would you like someone to openly critique one of your articles based on the same topic? I believe everyone has a different way of viewing facts, what makes this outlet great is that we can express our views without criticizing our fellow authors. Your profile picture looks exciting I bet that would make a great article!

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   4. 85

      gmwilliamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      The answer is an EMPHATIC NO.  This is considered a personal attack on another hubber which is not allowed on HubPages.  If there is a disagreement regarding the person's hub, let IT GO and write a hub stating YOUR position regarding the matter.

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   5. 84

      HeadlyvonNogginposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I've had it done to me. One hubber wrote an entire Hub in response to a hub of mine she disagreed with. As far as I know, and based on that one example, it is kosher. Just be sure you include a link to the original hub and give the original hubber a fair shake as far as properly representing what they said.

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   6. 60

      Aunt Jimiposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I note that you have only just joined this site 6 days ago and that you have no hubs.  You wouldn't be a troll would you?  Just here to cause trouble in general, or to cause trouble for the specific hubber you are now criticizing?  I think your first hub being a criticism of another hubber here, or of any specific person who is not a public personality, would be a mistake.  From what I know of you so far, I'll be honest, I'm not impressed.  Prove me wrong.

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      1. 70

         Travis Wakemanposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         I'll be honest as well. I find this comment unnecessarily confrontational. I have just joined the community with all of my content being on other platforms.
         
         If I had a ton of well received articles here, already published, would that change your answer?
         
         If I were a troll madam, I wouldn't have bothered asking the question, I would have just gone ahead and done so. I think you are thinking of this in a much more sinister sense then I am intending.

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   7. 95

      PegCole17posted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I may be mistaken, but I thought there was something in the T&Cs about not calling people out by name. It's gotten people banned from the forums in the past.
      I agree with the suggestions to write your opinion and let it speak for you. People will draw their own conclusions as to its merit.

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   8. 83

      bethperryposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I agree that it would be tacky, and would read like a vendetta instead of an honest article. gmwilliams gave some excellent advice. Just write about your knowledge or opinion on the subject at hand and leave out mentioning the other Hubber by name or the title of their Hub.

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   9. 74

      brakel2posted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I believe you should offer your opinion by sending fan mail.
      I wrote a hub and used some statistics that were  typo errors  The kind person wrote and told me that the statistics were not correct and that I must have made a mistake. I truly appreciated his recognizing the error and pointing it out to me.
      
      Also, if you want to write your own hub, you could do so but not as a correction to another hub. I have never seen anyone do that, and it might cause problems. It sounds like a rebuttal in a debate. Thanks for asking a legitimate question. Good luck.  .

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2. 39

   ChristinSposted 9 years ago

   That would be very tacky in my personal opinion.  Why not just make a free standing hub that states your opinions/experiences/ideas with evidence to back them up, instead of attacking another hubbers opinion/ideas?  You're more apt to get people to listen to you when you aren't in attack mode.

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   1. 89

      Tolovajposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I second that. Your opinion - your hub.

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3. 80

   Justin McLeanposted 9 years ago

   I doubt it. I would imagine you would need consent from the Hubber you're about to criticize first before picking apart his work

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4. 91

   dwelburnposted 9 years ago

   Yes; I'm in agreement with the above. Best to just write your own hub giving your opinions - no need to pick another hub apart specifically.

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5. 85

   DzyMsLizzyposted 9 years ago

   I agree with what the others have said. This would be in extremely poor taste, and not win you any "brownie points" in the community.  This is a fairly close-knit community of writers, and people make genuine friends here. 
   Such a dissection of another person's hub and opinion would be likely to get you ostracized.
   
   Simply write a hub of your own, expressing your own opinions on the matter, without so much as a mention of another person's hub!

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6. 81

   Askmeposted 9 years ago

   What I understand about what is being asked is X hubber wrote a hub with some very strong opinions and conclusions.  This question is asking is it okay to write your own hub stating why you think X hubber's conclusions are wrong. A rebuttal.
   
   These days it seems any push back or questioning of another's authority or assumptions is wrong.  I do not understand. What happened to the 60's mantra of "Question Authority". These days any debate or follow up to someone's opinions is frowned upon.
   
   I think you should write a hub addressing the topic and opinions of X and give your own perspective without naming names.

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7. 95

   FlourishAnywayposted 9 years ago

   Can't you find a way to present your own perspective about the topic without referencing or responding to someone else's work?  I think it would be tacky.  Find a creative way to present it rather than referencing another person's work.

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8. 72

   Marie Flintposted 9 years ago

   My two-cents' worth: Some rebuttal can be mentioned in a comment. Somewhat longer critiques could be sent through Fan Mail. The hubber you are critiquing will have the option to delete these.
   
   If you're going to do a hub, make it your own (not based on someone else's hub--critiques base on material outside the HP community is fine).

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9. 87

   innerspinposted 9 years ago

   I agree it seems tacky. You also need to think where your readers will come from. Who will search for your opinion of a hub? Much better to write the subject from your own angle in the first place. What would happen if the hubber removed their work? You'd be left hanging. I suggest putting your time to better use.

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10. 92

    Stove And Homeposted 9 years ago

    I've seen this happen, to the extreme -- where people have actually made fun of another writer/tried to make a mockery out of them. There are some sickos in this world. Stating your own views is one thing. I would leave it at that though

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11. 94

    wildernessposted 9 years ago

    I had that happen to me, although the "rebuttal" was more rebuttal than a critique.  I linked to it in the hub, mentioning that it was another way of looking at the topic - poorly written with abysmal logic, I felt it made my point for me as well as I could.

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12. 90

    Msmillarposted 9 years ago

    If the information presented in a hub is off base or simply wrong, say something in a private email if you must. Once I flubbed a hub with spelling errors galore (Mia culpa, I was in a hurry that day). Someone read it, instead of posting a public correction, he sent me an email stating that he just wanted to help me with my grammer. He went on to point out my spelling errors. I truly appreciated his candor and show of respect with the private email. I asked him to please help with any of my work and he did. It was great!
    Practice prudence.

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13. 72

    relacheposted 9 years ago

    Is it "kosher?"  No, of course not, because that is a complete misuse of the word 'kosher' and its meaning. 
    
    If you don't mind risking being banned permanently from the site, you may critique away.  Those sorts of Hubs have a spectacular history of backfiring on the author, and we always enjoy watching the floor show.
    
    You want to create content that brings value and usefulness to the reader.  Most likely a critique of another Hub would utterly fail to do that versus creating a Hub that presents your rational discussion and presentation of data without mentioning that other Hub at all.

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14. 96

    Melissa A Smithposted 9 years ago

    Unless it's against the TOS (I haven't checked) I say why not? If you do it to someone with a lot of friends, a few members of the community might not enjoy you...but who cares? I think there's nothing wrong with a little healthy criticism conducted eloquently. I often see patently false claims being made here on Hubpages, and I don't know if the site is OK with being known for poorly researched articles.

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    1. 70

       Travis Wakemanposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       You put it better than I did. Some articles need a detailed critique and it seems like a waste to spend an hour on a good sized chunk of writing only to bury it in the comments where nobody is going to find it.
       
       That said, of COURSE tact is important.

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       1. 96

          Melissa A Smithposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          The other thing about putting critiques in the comments; 'prideful' authors tend to delete them. One time I made an utterly harmless comment informing a user that the animal in their photo was a different kind of cetacean (their article was claiming a white humpback whale to be a killer whale), and that comment was vaporized on the spot, with the photo unchanged. Giving the benefit of the doubt, I commented again, and the comment was vaporized again.

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       2. 96

          Melissa A Smithposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          I've directly addressed a hub in this article against a bad practice (in my opinion), and haven't been banned: <link snipped>

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          1. 31

             Writer Foxposted 9 years agoin reply to this

             I looked at that Hub and the photos didn't load.  I checked out the cache on Google and the photos weren't on that either.
             
             Just thought you should know.

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             1. 96

                Melissa A Smithposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                Do you know what's going on? I see everything just fine. I hope I'm not the only one seeing the photos.

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                1. 31

                   Writer Foxposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                   This is a mystery.  I can see the photos now and now they are on the cache version, too.  Strange!

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                   1. 96

                      Melissa A Smithposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                      Oh ok, that seems to be resolved for now, thanks anyway.

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             2. 70

                Travis Wakemanposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                Loaded for me too. Might be your browser.

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15. 80

    Justin McLeanposted 9 years ago

    Travis, I'm sure you're a talented person and a good writer, but I find your approach here a little objectionable. Having zero hubs, zero followers, etc... if I were you, I'd start by presenting your original content first, developing your voice here, THEN if you want to take someone to task, by all means go for it.  You've already created a bunch of hype here for work that no one has seen yet.

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    1. 96

       Melissa A Smithposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       I don't see why that matters. Most people are writing for Google and other engines, not for followers here. They play little part in your success. Therefore if he feels the need to express himself, why not?

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       1. 80

          Justin McLeanposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          My main issue with this and this is the last thing I'm going to say is A.) We are still waiting on who/ what he's planning on writing about (I don't like being held in suspense over someone who hasn't written anything here) B.) It's tacky and in poor form IMO. I have NO problem with challenging a common perception as I did in a hub about a political prisoner. But, for his sake and everybody on this thread right now, I wish he would just write the thing.

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    2. 70

       Travis Wakemanposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       I do apologize for having possibly created a bit of a stir. Most of my content is on other platforms. Almost all of it relating to theology, religious practice, ethics, etc.
       
       I posted the forum comment just to get an idea of what the community thinks since I'm just dipping my toes in at the moment. I've heard a lot of mixed things about hubpages and was curious.

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       1. 0

          swilliamsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          You are a wise individual, at least you asked, and that's what this forum is here for. By asking it expresses your concern for others. And you have probably asked an important question that some writers think about. This is good step in the right direction.

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16. 70

    wrenchBiscuitposted 9 years ago

    Osiyo!
    
    The creators of Hubpages have created a very appealing platform for writers.I prefer it over many others because of the user interface, as well as the overall look which I find aesthetically pleasing.I think your idea is an excellent idea but I don't think it will fly here. In spite of my appreciation of all of their good works,there is a "Stepford Wives" mentality that exists here which unfortunately is pervasive across the internet these days; at least on the moderated sites such as this one.Nevertheless ,I have still found the site to be very useful.
    
    I posted an article like you are suggesting, back in Feburary.I posted in a  Facebook group called " American Latino Museum Is Racist and Genocidal" However,I did not critique a Hubpages article.Instead, I slammed Wikipedia for it's racist handling of the "Mexica Movement" (an indigenous rights organization) as opposed to Wikipedia's whitewashed version of the United States which neglects to mention the evil that has been perpetrated here for over 500 years in the name of "Freedom". I checked today and my article is still posted on the site. Most importantly,I have gained more Hubpage readers as a result.I have received positive emails from several members of the group inquiring about other articles I have posted elsewhere.
    
    My advice to you is to go ahead and do what you want,but only do it someplace else."Fair Use" gives us the legal right to critique and use excerpts of anyone's work that has been posted publicly.Hubpages can only control,and is only concerned about, what is posted on this site. As you can see from some of these comments,the dream police would be all over this.
    
    I am quite accustomed to controversy,critique, and hateful language.This is primarily due to the fact that I grew up in a racist mid-western town; a town so racist that the "N-Word" was often used to describe Jews, Indigenous people like myself,dark skinned Italians,or anyone else who wasn't Irish or German. So you can guess how friendly they might have been toward people of African heritage.As an example,a young black man was mutilated and lynched near my hometown when I was a teenager.
    
    He was murdered for the crime of  hitchhiking down highway 41 with a young white woman. I knew his twin sisters.I was with them at summer camp, and I remember the day they got the news.I will never forget the way that they screamed.It is  a horror,and a sound, that I cannot  forget.I stayed alive because I kept the white girls a secret,and there were many ... and they were all very happy with what I had to offer. But adversity has only made me a better person.Some of the "pansies" and "wimps" that write on these moderated sites would benefit  from a good dose of reality.
    
    Good luck! Stay thirsty my friend!

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    1. 81

       Askmeposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       WOW.  What town, where so I know to stay the F away!

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17. 87

    B. Leekleyposted 9 years ago

    It's disconcerting that many of those responding to the question equate "critique" with "personal attack", "tacky", and "vendetta." A critique, counter-argument, or rebuttal of the arguments for a position is, if done well and right, none of that, and there is no reason to jump to the conclusion that there is anything unfriendly or disrespectful or tacky about a critique. A critique is not a personal criticism.
    
    When those of us in a critique writing group in Kalamazoo critique each other's works in progress, it is the opposite of a personal attack. I want feedback on both the strengths and the flaws and weaknesses in my works of fiction in process, so I can make my work even better. And the same goes for philosophical arguments for a position or conclusion.
    
    It happens, coincidentally, that in my file of ideas for possible hubs I have printouts of a couple of hubs, each by the same hubber, a rebuttal of each of which I think would make an interesting couple of hubs. I will certainly praise the other hubber for excellent writing, and in each case I will  show my respect by bringing the attention of readers to the article that my article is intended to refute, such as with additional evidence; pretending it does not exist and that I am not disputing anyone in particular would be disrespectful. The articles I printed out, by the way, show a love of disputation. I'm a slow writer with lots of other hubs to write, so don't expect a critique or refutation hub from me soon. When I write one, it most certainly will not be a personal attack or personal criticism or tacky.
    
    Of course one needs to consider that HubPages articles are ephemeral, here today and maybe maybe not here tomorrow, or possibly completely rewritten. A hub built around a counter-argument to another hub needs to anticipate the possibility of the other hub one day being gone or quite changed.
    
    For how to have a civil discussion of differing viewpoints, see conversationcafeDOTorg/ and philosopherDOTorg/.

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