We Need To Bring All Hubtivity Into The Light ~

1. 81

   LdsNana-AskMormonposted 16 years ago

   I would like to make a suggestion to the TEAM here on HUB Pages. 
   
   I feel that it would be a positive improvement here on the HUB, if all of the activity that is perpetuated by Hubbers, were made known.
   
   For instance...  apparently - anyone can go around giving thumbs UP or DOWN to a fellow Hubber. 
   
   Why would we thumbs down another Hubber?  As I have given this some thought, I would think, that unless a Hub is violating that which is clearly marked, then from one Hubber to the next, this would be considered pretty low. 
   
   If a true violation has been made, then of course we have the 'flag' feature... and I believe that this is what this particular feature is for, right? 
   
   I can think of many reasons that it is a positive way to moderate our environment.  Problem is that it is not being used responsibly, according to  many conversations that are underway right now.
   
   Question:  I can accept when the 'computer' through programing - objectively FLAGS a newly published Hub, for whatever reason...  duplicate content most likely.  The process of needing to wait for it to be reviewed is most likely acceptable to all...
   
   But, when another Hubber, takes it upon themselves to FLAG anothers --  WHY would HubPages.com give that 'opinion' such power?  I believe that HUB PAGES should protect those who write here on the Hub.  No one, arbitrarily has the right to  infringe their opinion of another and cause potential harm,  without they too, being suspect as to intention of the action.
   
   In my opinion - unless we are flagged by the 'system' itself, and not manually - we are required to wait out the process of review; and this is acceptable within the 72 hours max.  This is a good deterrent to those that would break the rules, or needs to learn the rules
   
   But - when 'flags' are thrown up by fellow Hubbers - NO penalties - should be applied, UNTIL review is COMPLETED. 
   
   Innocent until proven guilty.  NO person who makes this manual decision, should be a writer on Hub Pages, or IF SO --  and this is the 'system' -- then, they must be made accountable to that Hub, as to WHY a penalty is incurred, if done so.
   
   I also feel, just like DIGG or any other reputable user-driven site of the like -- ALL of this type of  giving UPS AND DOWNS -- MUST be made public to the community;  as ALL other types of our activity are made to the public right now in Hubtivity.
   
   It is not right, that we are not made aware of all that is good and negative on this site, IF it is generated by the community.
   
   I don't think that picking and choosing what Hubbers are privy to know about one another will work on a long-term arrangement, i.e.  look what is happening in our forums right now.
   
   If some do not believe that these are things that need to be addressed...  I would suggest that you join myself, recently out of the dark -- on this one; not because I chose to come out and play, but because it has been made evident, that some don't want to play with me at all.
   
   I say fine, but don't we all believe --that we all have the same RIGHT, to be on the same playground IF we keep the rules; as the next guy?
   
   Those that do not keep the rules... should be given warnings, penalized or invited to go to another playground.
   
   Hard work, should be recognized by peers, but  unfortunately this can also breed divisiveness.  Hub Pages, I would like to see you - while this system for recognition is a great one, or can be...  I also believe that you must fight for the integrity of your system.
   
   We all, who write... deserve to write in a safe environment.  Policies that are sound, will ensure this maintenance of such.
   
   A double-minded policy, of which we currently are experiencing the results of, because of a few... are un-acceptable to the whole - or should be.
   
   Personally, I would prefer to become someones fan, and in that way say.... "hey, I think you are 'doing' a good job here".  We are much -- or should be choosy about whom we become a fan of...  It says, or should say a lot about YOU.
   
   This ability to thumbs DOWN each other, unless brought into the LIGHT -  rcan result in --  meaning if you DO THIS, positive or negative -- it will speak of YOU FIRST and not necessarily the  HUBBER.
   
   I think we may see some changes around here, just in this ONE simple change with these policy changes:-)
   
   REVIEW:
   
   And again... unless a Hub has been flagged by the 'system' -  not manually; then NO PENALTIES should be made UNTIL review has taken place.  IF a particular Hubber is found to be 'flag' happy toward a topic, individual or in any way out of control -  then they will be the one PENALIZED!
   
   Sorry for the epistle...   but if you don't agree and many perhaps will not -  I guess you can always hit the thumb, OR  go throw up a 'flag'...
   
   Hub Pages - PLEASE help us out here and protect those who are here to write and not to worry about those who don't agree with what we write... 
   
   If others do not care for what another writes, come on...   but do require some level of integrity amongst this community. 
   
   I have really enjoyed the Hub Pages community and the many wonderful people that are a part of the whole here on the Hub.
   
   I am saddened by this situation, and attempted to ignore it.  Unfortunately - my personal circumstances entered the issue... so I write; with the intent ONLY to not only for myself, but for all here... find a solution, wherein all may benefit.
   
   Kathryn
   LdsNana-AskMormon
   
   In about the space of 12 hours... THREE OF MY HUBS have been flagged and I have automatically been penalized... all were given MANUALLY.

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   1. 0

      terrygposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      I find this term very interesting - "Team" -  I suppose this is all of the usual suspects then.
      
      It seems a few emails may have been sent if your page received three thumbs in 12 hours. Maybe that is more than just a conspiracy theory.
      
      If its true, how much will it cost to get onto the team?

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   2. 81

      LdsNana-AskMormonposted 16 years agoin reply to this

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2. 88

   gamergirlposted 16 years ago

   Nana (if you don't mind me calling you that),
   
   I think that your hubs regarding the Mormon faith are well-constructed and fabulous to read.  We have differing faith paths, but I think the information you've presented is good.
   
   I am sorry that someone out there has flagged hubs you've written, and hope that you get prompt exemption from those flaggings.
   
   Don't worry too much about the individual hub's score, that will definitely go up in time and as more folks read your hubs.  They're wonderful, so you should see a rise in the score almost as soon as that wrongful duplicate tag is gone.
   
   Chin up, smiles on, ok lady?  Have a good night!

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   1. 81

      LdsNana-AskMormonposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks gamegirl... but my chin is pretty low right now.  I have labored so hard on my work, not to be anything but mine.  I do use some support material for what I write about within my Hubs, but I honestly believe that I own the content.... meaning it is from my soul. 
      
      Just sad that there is no ability to teach versus penalize here on the Hub. 
      
      tDMg
      Kathryn

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3. 0

   Iðunnposted 16 years ago

   Kathryn - we used to could see the thumbs as part of our stats.  In fact, I think they were only recently removed about the time of my return in December to HP.
   
   It didn't say who, but if you were being repetitively downthumbed by a small group, you would have known it.
   
   When I left here in May, I never had a problem with this.  When I came back in December and looked through these new forums, there was already talk of group mobbing by "thumbing" being discussed - apparently someone else was being harassed via this method.
   
   Since they pulled the thumb stats on my arrival, I do not know for a fact if that is what is happening to my Hubs, but I have concerns regarding it.  I think you will find Staff will neither confirm nor deny, nor can I tell you with certainty why your Hubs hit the dup content, whether by filter or by person.  I couldn't tell for sure about mine other than people chose to brag about it.
   
   I am 100% with you that writers should feel safe here rather than mobbed and I know that Staff does their utmost best to ensure that.  I hope they continue to do so.
   
   I am not sure if "who" is all that useful to us individually, although it would certainly do exactly what you said, make that person accountable for their choice, however I too feel it would be useful to me to know if every new Hub I put out is downthumbed by a small pack and I would think Staff might want to watch if that pack displays consistent behavior towards other Hubbers and deal with it appropriately, since they would know exactly who those people are.
   
   This used to be such a warm lovely community and yeah, things grow and change and I've been gone a long time and it's much harder to maintain that warmth with so many people.  But I think it still could be, if abuses of system were dealt with properly.

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   1. 81

      LdsNana-AskMormonposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you, for such a supportive response.  I was seeing some funny stuff over the last week, but until I was hit with a 'triple' I thought...  just ignore this.
      
      As you know, I don't spend too much time here in the forums, and have worked hard to have congenial relations with all here. 
      
      My original post on this thread, was to attempt to see  the problem looked at seriously by the Hub... as I had just watched you go through a similar issue.
      
      I was not aware of other threads as you state here...  on this problem.  I have not received detailed training on any of these issues, but also I don't feel as though I am one that 'should' be labeled as a difficult hubber or duplicate abuses by any stretch of the imagination.
      
      It will be nice, when more traffic is from google and other search engines and that what should be a positive support environment here at the hub... its negativity will fade into the abyss...  You know what I am saying, right.
      
      But I really like the HubPages overall system and this kind of venue...  I will recommit myself, as I know you have as well.... to just looking forward, with a positive attitude.
      
      I need to take gamegirls advice and pick up this chin:-)
      
      Thanks again,
      tDMG
      Kathryn

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4. 57

   Mark Knowlesposted 16 years ago

   Honestly Kathryn,
   
   I have just had a look at your hubs and discovered exactly the same content else where .
   
   And I mean exactly the same. Nothing original.
   
   Sorry - Why don't you write something that has not been copied form else where? If you have a strong belief, put it into your own words. I said before that I like the idea of you using hubpages to share your beliefs - even though I do not agree with them
   
   I have flagged your hubs that are copied content and will continue to do so - I don't mind being honest about that.

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   1. 81

      LdsNana-AskMormonposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      Honestly Mark,
      
      Please post this 'duplicate' content that you speak of... the only duplicate content that is on any of my 20 some pages, was given permission to me by the webmaster of light planet.  I will post his permission and give you his name and telephone number if you need this.
      
      These ARE ALL OF MY OWN WORDS.  This is my personal testimony with my thought processes and nobody else's.
      
      If I add a YOU Tube to it, I don't consider this duplicate content.... does this system?
      
      The Living Christ - is a document by the  Quorum of the Twelve  Apostles of the LDS Church... should not be tampered with by my rewording.  It is perfectly okay for it to be copied by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints.... as it is a proclamation to the world.
      
      Mark, I knew it was you who had flagged me a week ago on my youth article.... which again is mine content.  The actual video that I wrote about... had only been released TWO HOURS previous to my Hub being published.  This is very easy to prove  -- once again.
      
        And it came up within days.... and now you tell me that  you have done it again and are happy about this.  How about a little training if YOU feel it is necessary for me... I am an amateur writer... obviously:-)
      
      People are happy to learn, but not in such a fashion. 
      
      Really?  Do you work for HubPages.com as a moderator and I am just not aware of this...  Because I thought you were a writer here, like the rest of us.
      
      I apologize if I am speaking to a moderator who can boot me any time they want... 
      
      I am sad at your response and to have you verify my suspicions of your being my original, and obviously continued watchman here. 
      
      I would much prefer and open exchange and IF my content is unacceptable, then I am happy to make it such.... but not its content.  I am sorry that we obviously have a great chasm in our beliefs.  But I have  no problem with this, that I would go about to do anything of the same.
      
      My desire in being on the internet, is to inform those who might not normally be informed about the Mormon Church; and also to teach  and share those things that I believe. 
      
      I have that right, like anyone here.  My hubs average 2000  words plus...  they are MINE and you are completely WRONG in your presentation of my overall work. 
      
      Regards
      
      Kathryn

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   2. 81

      LdsNana-AskMormonposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      "Why don't you write something that has not been copied form else where?"
      
      Marisa...
      
      please review this entire thread... it is very unattractive.  Honestly...  I can't and wont' re-read particular words here.
      
      I am only seeking fairness and an understanding of what is being done.  And a way to not have this happen to anyone else.  Good thing I am not trying to make a living.  lol
      
      tDMg,
      Kathryn

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5. 85

   Marisa Wrightposted 16 years ago

   Kathryn
   
   Giving your Hub a "thumbs down" would not result in it being taken "off the air".  Only flagging will do that.
   
   It's important that Hubbers retain the right to flag, because HP administration couldn't possibly staff the site to keep track of every single violation.   HubPages relies on members being vigilant, too, and report any inappropriate Hubs.
   
   If you use content copied and pasted from another site - even if it's your own work - you can expect to be flagged for duplicate content. 
   
   The thumbs up and down are a way for visitors to express their appreciation and otherwise of people's Hubs.

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   1. 81

      LdsNana-AskMormonposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you Marisa -
      
      I really do understand the need for community moderation.  But not in the dark, when intentions become questionable...
      
      And obviously, I have been flagged manually and NOT by system.
      
      Again -  thumbs should be known - both ups and downs, therein is credibility maintained in this system and accountability for actions toward fellow hubbers.
      
      If HP cannot  manage the site themselves, and I understand this... then when a hubber flags another....  NO penalty should be given, until the accusation has been dealt with by admin.  this prevents the abuse we are seeing rampant right now....
      
      HubPages, flags our Hub IF the system detects duplicate content when we publish... immediately.  this happened to me on my link page and after review was cleared.  When a page has been published or weeks and had no problem, then suddenly is 'flagged'  at that point it is MANUAL.  As is proof given in Marks announcement.
      
      I just feel that if Hub Pages could tweak their system, ALL would benefit by these very small changes that moderate some who feel they must moderate excessively, for whatever reason.
      
      tDMg
      Kathryn
      
      Again -   Just today alone, in less than 24 hours --- my pages, three of them - have been flagged manually and are now penalized.

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      1. 85

         Marisa Wrightposted 16 years agoin reply to this

         But Kathryn, that's exactly what happens.   If you or I flag a Hub, it doesn't get taken down automatically - the HP team have to look at it first.

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         1. 81

            LdsNana-AskMormonposted 16 years agoin reply to this

            Marissa -  when Mark flagged my Hub of a week ago and I then emailed HP team... I had to send them the link to the Hub that was flagged... so they could 'then' decide.    It begins descent immediately.  On this - I am now an expert.  lol
            
            This same Hub that came up.... was again hit by 'someone'?  again today and down down down it is going and it will just need to come up in the magic way that they do... lol
            
            My score went down fast... plummeted momentarily as have the three that have been 'flagged' today.... they were plummeting before anyone knew that they had been flagged. 
            
            I can't see how this is correct Marisa.  No -  you dive, until someone saves you from hitting the ground.  This is a definite.  But it 'should be' how I have suggested, to protect the writer and keep the system from being used to harm another writer for whatever reason.  I am glad that most do not have these problems.
            
            Again, my apologies for rocking the place on this.  I really like it here.  I just would like to  know, that another cannot under-mind any of those who legitimately are keeping the rules..  or willing to learn, and be taught by others? 
            
            I would prefer a much less hostile environment.  I would imagine most would if they found themselves in similar circumstances to mine. 
            
            I can only end by asking all to think about words like - intention - reason - integrity...  why?
            
            tDMg
            
            LdsNana-AskMormon
            Kathryn

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6. 65

   Stacie Naczelnikposted 16 years ago

   Have you read this yet?
   
   http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/2793?page=4#post18282
   
   You may want to.

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7. 57

   Mark Knowlesposted 16 years ago

   LOL - The only time I have flagged you is after this post of yours here. I have never flagged a hub of yours before today. I do not lie and always tell people when I flag their hubs.
   
   http://www.jesusthechrist.tv/who-jesus-christ-is.php
   http://www.symphonyofscripture.com/?p=605
   http://thecrazypastor.wordpress.com/200 … tant-ones/
   http://candacesalima.blogspot.com/2007/ … iving.html
   
   Sound familiar?
   
   
   
   And being given permission to use it does not make it unique.

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   1. 81

      LdsNana-AskMormonposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      Mark,
      this is a joke... right?  I have made it perfectly clear that 'Living Christ' is the only duplicate and complete piece that I have posted, etc.... none of these links offer any of your accusations of duplicate content in my HUB(s) as an issue...  If I write and share the same beliefs or doctrine of a church of over 13 MILLION people and it is  my teaching and not theirs...
      
      It is mine.  Same subject... my words.
      
      Sorry, but this is very weak in your overall  suggestion of my content not being original.
      
      Again... the majority of my work, consist of over 2000 words, of which I labor greatly.
      Kathryn

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   2. 54

      thecrazypastorposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      Did I get flagged for using the Mormons' own words when discussing what they believe?  Thought I was just being fair...

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      1. 57

         Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

         First of all - who are you and what are you doing entering this discussion?
         
         Secondly, I suggest you educate yourself before doing so.
         
         And here is a hub I made in honor of the occasion:
         
         Mormons are not Proper Christians

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         1. 54

            thecrazypastorposted 16 years agoin reply to this

            Friendly place you guys have here.  Peter, thanks for the clarification my man. Appreciate it. Mark, you posted a link to one of my articles.  You brought me up, not the other way around. (btw, the link at the top of my page that says "About Pastor Brian" might be helpful to that first question)
            
            Anyway, didn't mean to freak y'all out.  Carry on.  I'll stay on the sidelines.
            
            

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            1. 71

               Peter M. Lopezposted 16 years agoin reply to this

               It really is, I promise.  You just have to get to know everybody.

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            2. 81

               LdsNana-AskMormonposted 16 years agoin reply to this

               Was it a Bird - A Plane....  No  IT WAS SUPERMAN!
               
               I THINK I LOVE YOU....  A MAN OF INTEGRITY STANDS UP!
               
               I am so thankful to He who we both believe in, that you were invited into this discussion... and since it was I, who began this discussion.... YOU ARE Most certainly WELCOME.
               
               A Light in a dimly lit room is ALWAYS A FRIEND, regardless of differing opinions or beliefs.
               
               You are a true example of Christianity IMHO.
               
               Thank you again - 
               
               There goes that masked man!
               
               tDMG
               LdsNana-AskMormon
               
               Pastor...  I INVITE you to SEE TRUTH if you are inclined.  This is one of my THREE HUBS that have been falsely accused of as being IRRELEVANT...
               
               Of note:  ALL three of these Hubs that have been charged are also ON THE TOP ONE OR TWO PAGES OF GOOGLE..
               
               What do you think?
               
               http://hubpages.com/_hit/hub/ldsMormonY … nBHinckley

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               1. 54

                  thecrazypastorposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                  Me? I'm a sinner! Definitely no superman.  Just a sinner.  But if you're hitting the top of Google, you're rockin girl.  Have a wonderful week!

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                  1. 81

                     LdsNana-AskMormonposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                     YOU have inspired me today.  I just published a Hub...  perhaps you might enjoy it...
                     
                     Superman!
                     tDMg
                     LdsNana

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               2. 57

                  Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                  You are just not getting it are you?
                  
                  Considering you started all this so that hubtivity could be brought into the light.......
                  
                  Ah what's the point? You are not interested in doing anything other than exposing your religious views.
                  
                  I shall ignore you from now on - you are not interested in learning anything - you already know THE TRUTH

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               3. 85

                  Marisa Wrightposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                  Kathryn, who said they were irrelevant?   They have been flagged for duplicate content.  That's it.  Not plagiarism, not irrelevance, nor any other negative expression.  Just duplicate content.  HubPages rules penalize duplicate content.  It's the way this site works.  There's no rule that says you can't publish it, but you have to live with the fact that if you choose to do so, you will have a low Hubscore.
                  
                  Also, I hope you've read Jason's post which states that individuals flagging your Hubs have NO impact on your Hubscore whatsoever.  So your accusations to individual Hubbers can have no foundation. 
                  
                  I also noticed, Jason said that lots of frequently used expressions can trigger the filter.  So while you may not have duplicated content word-for-word, you are bound to be using phrases and sayings that are very widespread.  There is probably not much you can do about that.
                  
                  All I can say is, if you can't accept that, then perhaps HubPages is not the place for you.  I don't mean that in a nasty way.  This post is simply a statement of the facts,and I hope you will read it AND DIGEST it.  Because I think I'm a fairly patient person, but I'm beginning to feel you're not listening.

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                  1. 57

                     Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                     Beginning?..... I give up. You are more patient than I, Marisa.

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8. 57

   Mark Knowlesposted 16 years ago

   And no - I am not a moderator. I have no control over that.

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9. 81

   LdsNana-AskMormonposted 16 years ago

   Mark,
   
   My apologies if I made a wrong assumption of you flagging more than the one -- a week ago... but you seem so knowledgeable about my pages... easy mistake,  I think you can understand my making here.
   
   Kathryn

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10. 57

    Mark Knowlesposted 16 years ago

    The issue really is whether it is unique or not - not whether I agree with you or not.
    
    Personally, I think your particular brand of religion is one of the worst thought out, misguided loads of crap I have ever heard - but I will not flag you because I disagree with you.
    
    I do not lie and despite the fact that you "knew" it was me who flagged your hubs - This is the first one I have flagged .
    
    And the only reason I did is because you are making a fuss here on the forum.
    
    What do you not understand about hubpages not accepting duplicated content on their site?
    
    I don't want to start getting nasty here, but I will do if you keep this up.

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11. 65

    Mishaposted 16 years ago

    Kathryn,
    
    I'm afraid you have to live with that. You got a response from Jason - and Jason is one of the owners of this place. His opinion is authoritative here. He has all the right to allow or deny you doing anything here, whether you like it or not.
    
    We are all guests here, and we should obey the rules...

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12. 81

    LdsNana-AskMormonposted 16 years ago

    Hi Misha -
    
    I have no problem with either authority or rules here.  I have problems with abuse - when it is blatant -  or potentially  -when it is ignored.  I realize that Jason can make me disappear with a click. 
    
    It is a natural tendency, when someone speaks up and that which they speak -- is denied existence -  because it might make 'something' not look good, that the result usually brings trouble to the voice.
    
    Part of me thinks... why did I speak up?  Since most are denying the problems exist here...  It is clear when taking an extended field trip throughout the Hubs on this site.... that many 'should' be flagged - according to the criteria that has been presented in these discussions.
    
    Should I flag them?   Why?  Spite?
    
    Why these same folks have not -- is something one can wonder upon - only?
    
    This is what being allowed to work behind the scenes creates... distrust. 
    
    This was my point in bringing this up in the first place and on this thread,  for improvement purposes. 
    
    You have four very nice Hubs.... I really like what you do here.  Do I know if 'what' you are writing here is duplicate or not?  No...  why?  Have I heard similar words elsewhere?
    
    I like what you write or I like how you write and have no problem with your making information available to me, that I personally would not seek out under normal circumstances. 
    
    Isn't this what is great about being a part of HP?  Well, at least that is what I think....
    
    How can I find out IF what you or anyone else is writing that is not my area of expertise - is or is not duplicate content?
    
    Why - would I go about to do this in the first place?
    
    I suppose this is my concern.  I guess if we were writing the same subject, then perhaps I would get a bit edgy if you were all over the place copying content while I was writing my heart out... and you were being rewarded in some way, and I was not.  I guess that might be a problem.
    
    But help me understand the system right now...  WHY would people go about to flag that which they don't even have background in...  IF in order to make an accusation against another person -- they would need to actually go out of their way to do it... by researching their suspicion first.  If they don't do this --- then How can they make a legitimate claim against another Hubber?
    
    The first word that comes to my mind - must be - has to be - intention.  And for that reason,  this issue must be discussed and questioned.
    
    I am sorry that I have made so many uncomfortable.
    
    I firmly stand by my content.  In fact....  I feel the mind to invite a few experts to come on over and certify or verify my originality on most every word I have written being mine.  Believe me... if I were a cut and past girl...  I would knock out articles left and right.
    
    I take great strides to write relevant and credible information on the topic that I have chosen to write about.  I feel really good about that which I write.  I am a deep thinker, therefore writing can be very joyful to me.  Certainly, I am aware that most here do not agree with me.  Nonetheless, on the whole -  I have found most all to be kind and considerate.
    
    I hope we all feel the same about what we do write about, and are passionate about here.  And, that we respect each other for that one fact... if nothing else.
    
    Anyone that knows me personally, knows that this is my stuff.  Why be here taking the time to write, if it has already been said and in the same way?  It doesn't make sense does it?  You certainly can't feed an ego that way.  LOL
    
    I would do something else with my time frankly. 
    
    Thanks Misha.  I find you always to be sound in these forums.
    
    tDMg
    Kathryn

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    1. 85

       Marisa Wrightposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       Google it.  Copy and paste the first line or two, and see what you get. 
       
       If something sounds familiar to me, that's what I do.  I have no idea how the automated detector works, but I assume it does something similar.
       
       Kenny Wordsmith did a beautiful review of an artwork and included a quotation from scriptures, which earned him a red flag. He changed it and instead linked to that scripture on another site - and the problem was solved.  You can do the same.  Problem solved.

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13. 81

    LdsNana-AskMormonposted 16 years ago

    Thanks Marisa -
    
    I have mucho links in every single page I post.  It is a sad day - to think that I need to Google my own writing to see if it is original.
    
    Once again...  I know my own stuff is me only.  If I am penalized here for that, then I will need to figure out the system here.  Right? 
    
    It would help... if people had to be accountable for their actions, that impact others in the community - good or bad. 
    
    Why - would this not be seen as a positive request?
    
    Sad indeed.
    Kathryn

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14. 65

    Mishaposted 16 years ago

    Kathryn,
    
    I like your hubs, too
    
    And I do business on the internet - and because of that I know some things you don't seem to know. Duplicate content issue has nothing to do with being right or wrong about copying - but it has to do with search engines. If you post duplicate content, search engines just plain do not show your page to the public - and you (and Hubpages) do not get traffic. That's why hubpages frown of duplicate content.
    
    So, if your page is confirmed by staff to be duplicate content - it is in your own interest to fix this.
    
    Now, flagging is another issue, and I am with you here wholeheartedly. I was against thumbs down and flagging from my very start on hubpages, and I am still against it. I was drawn into flagging a few spam hubs recently - but I don't think I will do this anymore. It really hurts to see how this very nice community gets spoiled by flagging wars recently.
    
    However, there is not much I can do about this. Again, being familiar with internet business I understand why HP staff relies on users for flagging - they just do not have enough resources to police the site themselves. And I guess we have to live with that, cause they will not have this any time soon...

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       Marisa Wrightposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       That's what I was trying to say, too, Kathryn.  If you want to spread the word, then clearly the way you're approaching it now is not the way to do it - because your Hubs will become invisible.

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15. 81

    LdsNana-AskMormonposted 16 years ago

    Misha -
    
    I actually DO understand the issue of duplicate content.  And for this very reason, I am very careful with this.  And from the business perspective... I understand that each 'one' of us and our hubs - are considered a 'part' of the 'whole'  meaning HUBPages.COm
    
    And this is precisely why I am having such a difficult time.  GOOGLE actually has been very kind to my articles.  When I post them... most all of them are found pretty high up on the pole.  Particularly those that have a precise title... easily searched for.  I am being rewarded by Google for these.
    
    My issue is being accused of ALL my writing NOT being mine, which is ludicrous.  And being told that I should delete and write my own stuff.  And then, being flagged for these very same hubs, because someone - who does not know - has decided they are not relevant and unique material.
    
    The only Hub that falls into this category is the testimony of the Apostles.  It can be found elsewhere... but I am sure that no one has used video to accompany this declaration.  So in that way... it is very unique.  And again...  I have permission to use all content on that Hub.
    
    And my reporting of the death of Gordon B. Hinckley  -- of course, you will find this topic and the similar reporting everywhere.  But, everyone does not go everywhere to get their news information.  Of course, I who write...  and am an LDS Member, would also add my Hub to the mix.
    
    Google had no problems with this page and it still I believe can be found on either the second or third page of Google.
    
    Google understands the concept of a topic being ALL OVER the Internet... but the individual content being unique and relevant and original.  That is what they  like... this is what I am delivering in every Hub that I publish.
    
    So Misha...  my voice here is to be like 'Google' - and recognize unique and relevant Hubs to that which is ALL OVER THE INTERNET... but hey "come here" because this one is done better than others.
    
    Does this make sense?  Apparently, it does to Google.
    
    tDMg
    Kathryn

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       Marisa Wrightposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       Kathryn, who is saying all your writing is not yours?  Have ALL your Hubs been flagged? 
       
       If the testimony of the Apostles can be found elsewhere and all you've done is add a video, then it's duplicate content.  The combination may be unique, but it's the text that the filter is picking up on.  Like Kenny's scripture excerpt.  It doesn't matter whether you have permission to use it or not - it's still duplicated.  As Misha said, it has nothing to do with right or wrong, just whether it's somewhere else already.

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          LdsNana-AskMormonposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          I personally feel that IF we claim a Google 'standard' here, then perhaps 'Google' should be considered  GOOD judge or a HUB...
          
          Kathryn

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16. 60

    topstuffposted 16 years ago

    I just came to know about your concern and i quiet agree.Copy has nothing to do with original content.However any of my hubs doesnot have such problems.

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       LdsNana-AskMormonposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       Neither did mine, until 'individuals' have decided so....  these flags and I stand by this - did not come from Hub Pages and their computer programing.  These are being given for personal reasons.  IF searching for 'my content'  brings my content to ME...  I THINK that is A good thing, Right?
       
       Am I missing something here....  ?
       
       Thus my request that this 'system' be made more visible to ALL OF US.
       
       tDMg
       LdsNana-AskMormon

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          Marisa Wrightposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          Kathryn, didn't you read what Jason said?   "Flagging as duplicate just means our automatic duplicate checker will take a look a bit faster than it would do otherwise."
          
          So an individual's flag gets checked by the HP team.  If it's malicious, they'll remove it.  That sounds reasonable to me.
          
          I hear what you are saying about your articles still rating well in spite of a poor Hub score - if that's the case, perhaps the best thing is to stop worrying about Hubscore!  It doesn't sound like it is disadvantaging you in any way.

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       2. STAFF

          pauldeedsposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          The only way a hub can receive a duplicate content penalty is through a computerized check of the hub.  Every single hub that has enough text in it is checked, usually within a day or so of being published.  Around 5% of all hubs are currently penalized.
          
          If a person flags a hub as duplicate, all that means is that it will be checked by our automated process again.  That's it.  There are two ways the penalty can be removed -- a computerized check can come back clean or we can manually grant an exception.   We grant manual exceptions in cases where either the automated check identified it as a duplicate erroneously, or where most of the content is original but automated check picked up on a piece of quoted material or common phrase that was used in a reasonable way.
          
          Whether you choose to believe it or not, that is how it works.

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17. 81

    LdsNana-AskMormonposted 16 years ago

    I just went to google and on my one HUB that has now been flagged twice in the past week...
    
    and now displays at a score of 39
    
    when searching
    
    'mormon youth honor prophet'  and by the way-- I worked hard to title well.
    
    I have three results on the first page of google.... ALL  of which bring people right here to HUB PAGES.
    
    PLEASE explain to me anyone... WHY HUB PAGES, would have a problem with having traffic come
    
    Apparently -  Google finds this relevant, thus my position
    
    other terms will also find it just as easily IF  a person wants to find what I have reported on.
    
    tDMg
    LdsNana-AskMormon

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18. 81

    LdsNana-AskMormonposted 16 years ago

    WHAT DO MORMONS BELIEVE ABOUT JESUS CHRIST? THE TESTIMONY OF THE QUORUM OF THE TWELVE APOSTLES IN OUR DAY
    
    On this article....
    
    if I search for
    
    the living christ of apostles lds
    
    the above article that has been flagged and under inspection - still penalized is on the second page of GOOGLE.
    
    HOW CAN THEY SAY MORMONS ARE NOT CHRISTIAN? 
    
    search
    
    are mormons christian?
    
    page two GOOGLE !
    
    apparently, this declaration which is all over the internet...  Google likes what I have done to be found.
    
    The topic, issue of whether Mormons are Christians is HUGE, and that is why I wrote it.  It has been a Hub for a month and NEVER FLAGGED until TODAY!
    
    
    
    I feel that these penalized Hubs of mine should NOT be penalized any further... isn't getting on the front page of GOOGLE a GOOD thing? 
    
    tDMg
    LdsNana-AskMormon

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    LdsNana-AskMormonposted 16 years ago

    Marisa,
    
    Apparently, it has been determined that I am penalized fairly here according to the 'rules'.
    
    I believe as of  now... these penalties stand?
    
    And this is why this does not make sense to me?
    
    Confused? 
    
    Why then the plummeting scores before a review?  My understanding is that I am considered on all three of these Hubs of mine - punished! 
    
    If it hurts... punished - right?
    
    If I am being dense here -- go right ahead and hit me over the head.  lol
    
    tDMg
    Kathryn

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20. 81

    LdsNana-AskMormonposted 16 years ago

    Marisa wrote:
    I hear what you are saying about your articles still rating well in spite of a poor Hub score - if that's the case, perhaps the best thing is to stop worrying about Hubscore!  It doesn't sound like it is disadvantaging you in any way.
    
    
    Marisa
    
    This is soooo much more than Hubscore!  Please take note:-)
    
    IF this has poor intent - then I do not want to deal with this all of the time.  It must be discussed and I thank you for your willingness to exchange dialogue with me, that I might understand, and others become aware.
    
    Kathryn

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       Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       Jason has already explained that the duplicate content checker is automatic. Someone flagging your hubs just moves them up the list and gets them checked faster.
       
       As usual, with your type of religious zealot - You are unable to listen, merely parrot the words you have had repeated over and over. Unfortunately for you, this does not work here on hubpages or the internet in general.
       
       Google indexes your hubs and puts them high up the list, not because they see the TRUTH in them, merely that hubpages has good authority with google.
       
       Neither they, nor I, wish to see that authority damaged by having copied or repeated content keep on being there. That's why they frown on it. That's why they have a machine to check it, that's why the machine tells them when it finds some, that's why you get your hub red flagged.
       
       No ill intent - None whatsoever - the checker couldn't care less how inconsistent and stupid your religious doctrine is - it doesn't care - but it DOES know when it sees the same stuff produced all over the internet.

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    Marisa Wrightposted 16 years ago

    Kathryn, let's go back to basics.
    
    HubPages has to make rules.   They make it very clear, in several places, that they want original content.  So naturally, they must have a system that catches duplicate content and penalises it. 
    
    It would be nice if they could make complicated exceptions to that system to suit individual users but let's face it, it's hardly practical - it would take too much work. 
    
    What that means is that Hubbers are always going to flag duplicate content, because that is what they are asked to do. So if you're not prepared to remove the duplicate content, you have to live with the result.  And remember, duplicate content doesn't mean plagiarism - it just means something that appears elsewhere, even if you have permission to use it.  That includes quotations from scripture.  And it doesn't have to be your whole Hub, either.
    
    There is no point in arguing the point, it's the way it is on HubPages.  We all have to play by the rules, and if we don't want to, the only choice is to go elsewhere.
    
    Now, as to your fight with Mark!  You seem to be determined that someone is out to get you, but it's not Mark.  He's too much of a gentleman for that.  There are two possible explanations for what's happening to you.
    
    One is that you really do have duplicate contents on your Hubs.  In which case, the solution is in your hands.
    
    The other is that people are flagging your Hubs because they disapprove of the Mormons.  I know this is annoying, but if you are going to put your beliefs out there, you have to accept some adverse reaction.  Religion has that effect on some people!  If the duplicate content allegation is incorrect, HP will remove the flag at some point, so it's not forever.

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22. 71

    Peter M. Lopezposted 16 years ago

    "Flagged" as described in HubPages has a specific meaning.  As you do not have any published hubs, then you/they did not get flagged.  Flagging is a method for the HP community to "self-police" content that has been stolen, copied, etc., to the extent we are able

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23. 65

    Mishaposted 16 years ago

    Like your pill

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24. 88

    gamergirlposted 16 years ago

    Most of us are pretty friendly, on the whole.
    
    Mark is mean and jealous because Misha bought me lunch, don't worry about that.

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25. 57

    Mark Knowlesposted 16 years ago

    You should check out the hub though - it's educational

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26. 54

    thecrazypastorposted 16 years ago

    You guys get some great traffic over here, that's for sure.  And to put this discussion a little closer to your topic: (since I derailed you guys so expertly lol)  Yes Mark, I will check out that hub! :-)

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       Peter M. Lopezposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       Stick around, you might actually enjoy it.

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27. 57

    Mark Knowlesposted 16 years ago

    Well, in that case, welcome to hubpages
    
    And yes, so I did LOL - I never put 2 and 2 together, LOL

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28. 60

    darksideposted 16 years ago

    I hope this isn't a sock puppet show.

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       relacheposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       This.

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29. 54

    thecrazypastorposted 16 years ago

    Thanks Mark.  It was kinda fun taking some heat from ya.   Have a great week over there!

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       Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       My pleasure - it's all good
       
       Come on back y'all.

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30. 81

    LdsNana-AskMormonposted 16 years ago

    I LOVE HUB PAGES!
    
    It is exactly where I want to be.  I will recommit myself to learning what you experts know so well.
    
    I can only ask you, that we teach one another and not look for one another's weakness.  Patience.
    
    Revolutionary stuff... I  know.  I believe it is referred to as - mentoring.  Hey - what a great idea HUB PAGES...  How about those who like getting involved with others....  becoming 'mentors'.
    
    I obviously, could use one:-)  I am a good student.  Really.
    
    I thank all of you, who have been kind, patient and individuals with integrity.  It is a pleasure to know you.
    
    tDMg
    LdsNana-AskMormon

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31. 0

    RFoxposted 16 years ago

    

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32. 47

    Laura in L.A.posted 16 years ago

    Mark,
    
    You entered this discussion reporting to have looked at Kathryn’s hubs and then proclaimed of her hubs content that they are “exactly the same. Nothing original”
    
    You then stated that you had flagged her “hubs” (please note the plural use of the word).
    
    “I have flagged your hubs that are copied content and will continue to do so”
    
    
    
    Kathryn became upset and assumed you flagged a particular hub a week ago. Kathryn then  also clarified the false perception you had made about the originality of her hubs stating that she works very hard to personally compose them.
    
    
    You Mark then responded among other things, by clarifying you had only flagged one of her hubs just today.
    
    
    Kathryn then responded by apologizing for her false assumption. While of your false perception of her, I find no apology whatsoever but exactly the opposite. 
    
    
    Instead the exchange goes on as follows:
    
    Kathryn writes:
    
    Mark,
    
    My apologies if I made a wrong assumption of you flagging more than the one -- a week ago... but you seem so knowledgeable about my pages... easy mistake, I think you can understand my making here.
    
    
    Included in Mark's response:
    
    “Personally, I think your particular brand of religion is one of the worst thought out, misguided loads of crap I have ever heard…I don't want to start getting nasty here, but I will do if you keep this up.”
    
    
    
    More choice highlights of how you continued to respond to Kathryn through this thread:
    
    “As usual, with your type of religious zealot - You are unable to listen, merely parrot the words you have had repeated over and over.”
    
    
    “No ill intent - None whatsoever - the checker couldn't care less how inconsistent and stupid your religious doctrine is…”
    
    
    
    Laura in L.A. writes:
    
    Mark,
    
    What I have just quoted of your statements again here are what I saw to be to the most overtly bigoted and ad hominem attacks of the many rude and condescending responses you gave to Kathryn. I truly hope this is the last we shall see of them ever.
    
    
    Kathryn,
    
    Kudos to you for not returning a railing for an attempted beating. Good luck figuring out how to maneuver the challenges of Hubpages -- which I‘m sure you will.
    
    I agree that people should be openly accountable for what they do.
    
    Wherever they are for that matter…

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33. 71

    Inspirepubposted 16 years ago

    Hi Laura,
    
    While Mark has been forthright in expressing his opinion of the LDS religion, he certainly hasn't engaged in ad hominem attacks.
    
    In fact, he used the extreme language about his own personal beliefs to highlight that his actions were NOT based on those beliefs, and by taking those quotes out of context you have misrepresented the tone of his post completely.
    
    Kathryn was frustrated, and she was not taking in what people were saying to her. Mark may have likened her failure to listen to that of a religious zealot, but he did that AFTER the failure to listen had demonstrably happened, and not as an attempt to derail the argument from issues to personalities, which is what an ad hominem attack does. Kathryn was the one failing to engage with the issues at that point.
    
    I can appreciate that this type of debate can seem hurtful to some, and I was very impressed that Kathryn reached the point of being willing to take on some mentoring despite the strong opinions being expressed about her choice of subject matter. It bodes well for this community that people can overlook the style of a communication and engage with the content.
    
    I have found Mark to be remarkably tolerant and helpful, and certainly not bigoted - someone bigoted would not have helped Kathryn at all, or would certainly have bailed out of helping when she was being difficult. Mark has helped people with whom he passionately disagrees on many occasions, including Kathryn herself - the exact opposite of bigotry.
    
    I can't comment on the issue of plural and singular because I don't think it's important enough to invest the time in finding the references - you may be completely correct in your assertion there, I just don't think it has much bearing on the issue of Mark's goodwill to his fellow man.
    
    The whole issue of whether or not people are flagging Hubs and what that means has been put to bed by the HubPages team in another thread, but basically, Kathryn needn't be concerned - even if people do flag her Hubs that won't influence her Hub score, ie she won't be "penalised" or "punished" over it - which means the whole issue of transparency is moot, and everyone can get back to writing Hubs again ...
    
    Jenny

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34. 57

    Mark Knowlesposted 16 years ago

    Laura -
    
    You are forgetting that this thread is a continuation of another thread and this question of flagging and duplicate content was answered there.
    
    Kathryn hijacked someone else's thread to ask the self same questions that were answered both in that thread AND this thread AND the one that Jason ( a hubpages admin) started.
    
    I am always helpful to people - even when I don't agree with them - if they have a genuine question.
    
    If they are merely espousing their views or selling something, I am actively antagonistic towards them.
    
    This particular thread was started to "Bring hubtivity into the light," - I have been honest in what I do on this site and have exposed my hubtivity to the light. I flag hubs that I think are breaking the rules. Clear? I will continue to flag any hubs that I think break hubpages rules.
    
    I also got frustrated that, despite being answered several times - with the same answer, Kathryn kept on pushing the issue and at the same time, dropped a load of religious rubbish into them by INVITING someone to SEE TRUTH.
    
    Which tells me she is here to push her religious beliefs rather than learn something. I know this is a common Mormon practice - inflicting their beliefs on others at every opportunity, but it has no place here on the forums. In fact the only reason I visited the hub in question and therefore flagged it was because of the fuss here on the forums - and not just this thread.
    
    In the past, I have told Kathryn that I think it is a good idea for her to share her beliefs as a hubpage and I still do think that - I don't have to go and look at them if I choose not to.
    
    So now on to you - Who are you, where do you come from, why do you have no hubs written and why are you getting involved?
    
    If you want to talk about bringing hubtivity into the light - go and look at my profile page and some of my hubs - That is a picture of me. These things written on my profile page are about me. This is my real name and I live where I say I do. If you click "Contact Mark Knowles" you will be able to send me a message and I will answer.
    
    Perhaps you should think about bringing some of your hubtivity into the light before you start attacking me.
    
    And for the record, I think the Mormon religion is a complete crock - but this is nothing personal to you - I think all organized religions are a crock and my main issue with them including the magical-underpants wearing brigade is that none of you actually practice what you preach and use the doctrine to further your own ends rather than do any good.
    
    So, let's see a photo and some TRUTHFUL details on your profile page with some hubs written before you can have an opinion that is worth considering.
    
    Kathryn -
    
    Apology accepted. I must admit in all the fighting, I hadn't noticed you put that there. I can see also that you are getting frustrated and really suggest you don't worry about the hubscore - it has no effect on the visibility of your hubs with google.
    
    And thanks to those who defended me. I will admit I am not as patient with this stuff as I could be. Just to lighten things up a little, I added a new hub in honor of this epic battle:
    
    
    Mormons are not Proper Christians
    
    If any Mormons here can't take a joke, I suggest you don't visit. I have turned the ads OFF on this one, so no one can accuse me of making any money out of this. Enjoy

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35. 81

    LdsNana-AskMormonposted 16 years ago

    Laura in L.A.
    
    You are light, as IS my pastor:-)
    
    This is most certainly NOT a continuation, but another individual - ME, who questioned that which was being legitimately question by another Hubber, but IS MY experience and I stand alone in THIS.
    
    THIS IS MY THREAD THAT I INDEPENDENTLY began... And I, if anyone is allowed to take it upon themselves to 'invite' or un -invite, or question another individual's RIGHT to engage...
    
    THAT, 'would' be ME.  BUT, in saying that...  No one can tell you where you're welcome with your opinion, or have a RIGHT to be knowledgeable upon a clear subject.  Unless, in these circumstance 'they' are a moderator.
    
    Once again...  I am grateful to Him, who is greater than us ALL, for your boldness, integrity and willingness to step out and speak UP,
    
    TRUTH. 
    Integrity... will never be moot, IMHO.
    
    tDMg
    LdsNana-AskMormon

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    1. STAFF

       pauldeedsposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       If this refers to me, then you are welcome.

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          C.M. Vanderlindenposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          
          
          That was exactly what this thread needed

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36. 47

    Laura in L.A.posted 16 years ago

    Inspirepub,
    
    You wrote,
    
    “While Mark has been forthright in expressing his opinion of the LDS religion, he certainly hasn't engaged in ad hominem attacks.”
    
    
    If the following quote again isn’t both ad-hominem and bigoted I don’t know what is despite Mark’s assertion and now yours that he does not engage in that sort of thing -- here it is spelled out and you can insert homosexual, African American or Jew in place of “religious zealot” if it helps to see the ad-hominem, inflammatory and stereotypical nature of the statement. .
    
    “As usual, with your type of religious zealot - You are unable to listen, merely parrot the words you have had repeated over and over.”
    
    Please do not excuse this kind of behavior because Mark was frustrated with Kathryn. Forgive it fine, but don’t excuse it. Mark does not have to stick around and “help” Kathryn. Somehow I don’t think anyone wants this kind of “help.”
    
    I’m glad to hear you have found Mark to generally be even the opposite of bigoted. Unfortunately his choice of statement to Kathryn was and that is why I decided to write. Again, I hope such does not resurface and with a little more awareness, we won’t see this kind of thing again.

    replyreport
37. 47

    Laura in L.A.posted 16 years ago

    Mark,
    
    Perhaps we shall get better acquainted in the future but today I am addressing your objectionable behavior towards Kathryn only. One might say  that you “dropped a load” of anti-religious and personal “rubbish” into your posts and I’m not here to attack you for it (please notice that in my post I was careful not to) but to draw it again to your attention and invite you to discontinue it.
    
    Again you wrote:
    
    “I know this is a common Mormon practice - inflicting their beliefs on others at every opportunity”
    
    Mark, I wonder if you might consider that this is the exact same type of rhetoric that people have used against homosexuals? Perhaps because you are directing your statements to Mormons in this case, it is hard to recognize it, but this kind of stereotyping is bigoted.

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38. 88

    gamergirlposted 16 years ago

    Please stop arguing and pooping up the forum.  There has been way too much of it lately.
    
    

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39. 57

    Mark Knowlesposted 16 years ago

    Allow me to introduce you to THE GENUINE PROPHET whose powers and authority were handed down to him by our LORD GENE, RODENBERRY.
    
    May he continue to spread TRUTH and LIGHT wherever TV shows may be found.
    
    
    
    HE doesn't need magic underpants.

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40. 69

    In The Doghouseposted 16 years ago

    Personally, I can take a joke if I hear a good one.  My only question is this, with all the wonderful "religious" HUB's that are on this forum (and believe me I have read most of them), how is it possible that this "joke" has been the featured HUB under "religion" for the past two days?  Just simply wondering.

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       livelongerposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       It's one giant CONSPIRACY. Called "reverse chronological order".

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41. 88

    gamergirlposted 16 years ago

    Guys.. really..
    
    

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       C.M. Vanderlindenposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       It's like talking to a brick wall, Gamergirl

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42. 47

    Laura in L.A.posted 16 years ago

    Gamegirl,
    
    You wrote:
    
    “Please stop arguing and pooping up the forum. There has been way too much of it lately.”
    
    
    And C.M. Vanderlinden, you wrote:
    
    “It's like talking to a brick wall, Gamergirl “
    
    Would you each mind being more specific about what or who you are referring to?

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43. 88

    gamergirlposted 16 years ago

    Laura,
    
    Please read my post again.
    
    Thank you.

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       Laura in L.A.posted 16 years agoin reply to this

       SO to be clear you were referring exclusively to me?

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44. 88

    gamergirlposted 16 years ago

    

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       C.M. Vanderlindenposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       I love that smilie!

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45. 88

    gamergirlposted 16 years ago

    All the gesturing, none of the real life bruising, CM!

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    1. 64

       C.M. Vanderlindenposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       Perfection I love it!

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46. 47

    Laura in L.A.posted 16 years ago

    All I can say is that speaking up against bigotry and for mutual respect isn't "pooping up the forum"

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    1. 88

       gamergirlposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       Perpetuating a long, overdrawn argument doesn't help the community.
       
       Signing up for the strict purpose of arguing on the Hubpages forums doesn't help the community.

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       Marisa Wrightposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       Laura, I'm all for speaking up against bigotry.  However, what you are doing is an entirely different matter.  You came into this thread late, when we had all moved on from the argument.  Kathryn had already left the issue behind, and all you did was stir things up needlessly.  That's not achieving anything.

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          Laura in L.A.posted 16 years agoin reply to this

          Hi Marissa,
          
          I can appreciate that point of view. I do wish I had been reading when such comments first began and could have spoke up  right then but alas I did not read until last night.
          
          Many of Mark's comments to Kathryn continued to be unkind and personal beyond the initial bigoted stuff   and that is the other piece of why I decided to speak out (which I stated in my originl post)-- which was just to Mark. As others have also responded and commented along with Mark, I have continued to respond and comment to them too, hence there is a shared responsibility among various parties that this aspect of the conversation has continued and still continues to be hashed. 
          
          Overall, I don't mind defending my choice to speak as I did and do. I think it was the right thing to do even though sometimes doing the right thing doesn't achieve any immeadiate results...
          
          Kind Regards,
          
          Laura

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47. 69

    In The Doghouseposted 16 years ago

    Laura in LA
    IMHO "speaking up against bigotry and for mutual respect" helps any community.
    Thank you.

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       Laura in L.A.posted 16 years agoin reply to this

       Gamegirl
       
       I too agree with "The Doghouse."

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48. 88

    gamergirlposted 16 years ago

    Yes, let's create a neverending cycle of negativity and argument.
    
    Everyone buy your tickets now.
    
    How about we not?  Please?  I mean, sheesh.

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49. 57

    Mark Knowlesposted 16 years ago

    Where I come from, you have to earn respect and behaving in this fashion is unlikely to earn it.
    
    And laura from wherever who we have never heard from - I have nothing against homosexuals - they do not come knocking on my door trying to persuade me to their way of thinking. A few have tried, but that's a whole different thing.
    
    Great contribution doghouse. Try practicing what you preach for a change.
    
    
    In the meantime, and for the last time, I refer you to THE TRUE PROPHET, His HOLINESS and BRINGER OF LIGHT AND TRUTH:
    
    
    
    This will be my last transmission on this thread - if you want to continue accusing me of bigotry and lack of respect for people who clearly don't deserve any, please feel free to send me a PM. This rubbish has gone on long enough as far as I am concerned

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    gamergirlposted 16 years ago

    Dear Laura,
    
    I am sorry that you don't seem to have read what I've said to you, or anything else in the thread, but I disagree with the practice of signing up to forums purely to argue and fight.  That practice is called 'trolling' or 'flaming' and to do so is generally frowned upon.
    
    I do hope you enjoy your time at Hubpages, and look forward to seeing you publish your first Hub.  I have this little voice of doubt that tells me, however, that you truly did only join the site to come and reinforce negative energy on the forum.
    
    Please prove me wrong, and try and have a nice day.

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       Laura in L.A.posted 16 years agoin reply to this

       Gamegirl,
       
       I've read what you've said and as previously stated I disagree with you. Moreover, I wish your statements condemning negativity came when such negativity first began to appear with Mark's comments before I ever came around, instead of when someone ie. me, finally spoke out against them. I can't understand why you or anyone would want to run defense for that sort of thing and try to quite those who do speak out but here we are.
       
       You will notice under my name that I signed up here a couple of weeks ago. This so I could comment on hubs -- and forums are included
       
       To be honest, I would not have spoken up on this particular thread if some other regular of the community had but sadly Mark's comments were and seem to continue to be ignored as to their derogatory nature by some participants here even after bringing them to attention.
       
       But as you can imagine, I'm not sorry for drawing it out.
       
       Best to you
       
       Laura

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