Hubbers need to be informed if they are a referred account.

1. 61

   paradigmsearchposted 9 years ago

   Hubbers need to know if their account is a full-value account worth the full 40% income value to HP. Or if their account is a referred account that is only worth the partial 30% value to HP. Knowing one's value to HP is an important factor in determining how much time, labor, and even money the Hubber would want to invest in that account. The information could easily be displayed on one of the earnings menu subpages.

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   1. 89

      Millionaire Tipsposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I'm pretty sure I clicked on a referral link when I signed up, and I would certainly like to know who has the information about my traffic and earnings, and is profiting from my labor.
      
      Having said that, I trust that HubPages has the integrity to treat an account with 40% commission the same way as it does an account with 30% commission.

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   2. 87

      Marisa Wrightposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Why does "knowing one's value to HP" make any difference to you?   You're getting paid the same, regardless.   
      
      I have no idea whether I'm under someone's referral or not and I really don't care.

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      1. 61

         paradigmsearchposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         All I can suggest is you enroll at your nearest Community College and take a few business courses...

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         1. 94

            Phyllis Doyleposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            Very good advice, Para - for anyone. I could use a few business courses myself.
            
            I think it is important to know one's value at HP or anywhere they intend to earn money.  As you say, it is good to know so one knows how much time and energy to put into the site or job.

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      2. 79

         Jayne Lancerposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         I know I'm not under someone's referral, but I would be very concerned indeed if I were, or thought I could be, especially now I know that that person would have data relating to my earnings. What I earn is my business and nobody else's.
         
         "As you are one of my referrals, I actually have data that shows you've been earning not much for years, so whatever is happening now can't be due to the Squidoo additions." http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/125240#post2644055

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   3. 94

      Phyllis Doyleposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I agree with you, Para. At any job I have had, or any site I have written for, it is important to me to know how much my management values my work. If they value it highly, I work harder to maintain that value - on the other hand, if they value it low, I might still work harder to improve if it is worth my time and energy to invest in the site.

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   4. 92

      Susana Sposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Relache was totally out of order with what she said and she should be penalised for it, but I don't think that HP disclosing our referrer, if we have one, would be helpful to anyone.
      
      In the early days I made contact with some of my referrals to offer support and assistance but it wasn't taken up so I don't bother anymore.

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2. 76

   psycheskinnerposted 9 years ago

   If being referred reduces a person's earnings ... I need to stop trying to do it. Is that really how it works or is the 10% from Hupages share?

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3. 76

   psycheskinnerposted 9 years ago

   I took a few seconds to look it up.  Referees earn the same as everyone else.
   
   "The program works like this: you'll give people you know a specially-encoded link to a page on HubPages. If they click on that link and sign up within 30 days, and before they click on someone else's specially-encoded link, then you'll enjoy 10% of their lifetime impressions automatically. That 10% comes out of our share, not theirs; they will earn 60% of impressions whether they sign up through you or not."

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4. 76

   psycheskinnerposted 9 years ago

   I don't see how it matters.  We are in an automated system that does not discriminate referred from non-referred accounts and indeed does not mark them as being different. Ergo Hubpages does not care which we are and treats all accounts the same--as it should be..

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5. 59

   Mark Ewbieposted 9 years ago

   It matters because a Referrer publicly ridiculed one of their referrals on these forums.  That is why PDS is hacked off with it.
   
   At the least you might think the Referrer would lose that referral bonus so they cannot use the information again in that way.
   
   There is no point in expecting anything to happen because the Referral game benefits HubPages.  These people sign others up and constantly beseech them to keep on writing, keep on working - so they can pick up some extra money.
   
   Even though the vast majority of people on here are wasting their time, clutching at straws and will never make a decent amount of money - the Referral game means a guaranteed number of cheer-leaders for the site.
   
   In my opinion... it stinks.

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   1. 94

      Phyllis Doyleposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I agree with you, Mark, that the person who made that statement should lose their referral bonus. Her remark was highly uncalled for, rude, critical, personal attack and  inexcusable.  I think the referral thing should be dropped entirely.

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   2. 78

      lobobrandonposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Yup, if it was misused the right should be taken away. Also, the comment did state something on the lines of "meagre amounts"

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      1. 87

         Marisa Wrightposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         In the seven years I've been here, that's the ONLY time I've seen anyone make a comment about the accounts of their referrals.  I agree Relache was out of order but hey folks, it was ONE incident.
         
         Besides, Relache was wrong in her statement.  Nobody knows what their referrals earn.   All you can see is your share of Adsense earnings, on your Adsense account - and if people are in the HP Earnings Program, that's a tiny portion of their earnings. 
         
         As for people cheerleading for the sake of the referral system - people with referrals soon get over the idea that referrals are worth chasing.   I have over 500 referrals because when I started here, we were urged to put our referral tracker in everything.   Of all those people, only two of them have ever written a decent amount of Hubs.   From what others have said, that's a common experience.

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         1. 79

            Jayne Lancerposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            Perhaps how much the earnings are can be worked out, I've no idea. Anyway, I don't think anyone needs to make excuses for her, in particularly because she's pretty sure that she's one of the only site members who has more than a passing familiarity with the HubPages TOS. So, it's not even ONE incident. There can't possibly be an incident. She can't ever, ever be wrong, and disclosing information about the earnings of another hubber can't possibly be against the TOS. http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/124503#post2638489

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            1. 87

               Marisa Wrightposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               Did I make any excuses for Relache?  No. That was not the purpose of my post.  Relache did the wrong thing, but no one else has EVER made such a comment about their referrals before.  So, it's one incident.
               
               I have referrals.  I can look at the data I've got and I can tell you, I have absolutely no information on any aspect of the HubPages Earnings Program for those Hubbers.  I can see their names and how many Hubs they have on my HubPages account, and that's all HubPages tells me.  I can go to my Adsense account and see when I earn a share from one of their Hubs - but that doesn't tell me their traffic, only clicks, and not on their share of impressions of course.
               
               The more I look at it, the more I wonder how Relache was able to draw the conclusion she did.

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6. 82

   snakeslaneposted 9 years ago

   I have two referrals. One of them is me (on a different sub domain) but the other I have no idea how it got there, and it has 0 Hubs, but it is a high profile Hubber in another sub domain name (profile score 96 with no recent activity). Does this mean that person gets a couple of my measly clicks? Boy am I confused.

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   1. 76

      Barbara Kayposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      No. That isn't what it means. You will get 10% of the income that Hubpages would have gotten when the person you referred earns money.
      
      The person you referred gets 60% of their earnings.
      Hubpages gets 30%
      You get 10%
      
      It is a good deal for you.

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      1. 82

         snakeslaneposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         Thanks Barbara. I appreciate you trying to sort out my question. It is not a good deal for me because 10 percent of 0 is still zero (that person has no Hubs). But something has changed. Just now when I looked at my referral trackers (on my account page) it shows there are three signups, but when I click on that (signups) column to see who they are, there are no details (last time there was a list with the names of the two persons I referred).

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7. 96

   SmartAndFunposted 9 years ago

   ParadigmSearch, correct me if you are wrong, but I think what you are talking about in this thread is a separate issue than the unfortunate spilling of the what should be confidential information.  I think your beef with HP is that you worry HP is likely not to give your opinions as much weight or your hubs as much promotion as some others, because you are only a "30-percenter" and your account is not worth as much to HP as a regular "40-percenter."
   
   Is that what you mean?

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   1. 87

      Marisa Wrightposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      That's the only explanation I can think of, and since HubPages' internal promotion makes very little difference to traffic and our opinions aren't much listened to anyway these days, I don't see what there is to worry about.

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8. STAFF

   Paul Edmondsonposted 9 years ago

   The referral fee comes out of the hubpages share of impressions. http://hubpages.com/faq/#affiliate

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   1. 61

      paradigmsearchposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      .
      From the link, "...then you'll enjoy 10% of their lifetime impressions automatically."
      
      Changing that parameter to "...then you'll enjoy 10% of their first five years of impressions automatically." would not inhibit or reduce the desired response to this incentive. Frankly, I think you could accomplish your objective with a three year cap.
      
      I won't belabor the financial benefits to HubPages if you were to make this change. Besides, I'm guessing you've already seen all my rants elsewhere on this subject.

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9. 87

   Marisa Wrightposted 9 years ago

   I've been thinking about this and I still think it's a storm in a teacup.
   
   Paradigmsearch seems to be worried that HubPages won't treat referred Hubbers with the same respect, because they're getting 10% less income from them.
   
   I'm pretty sure most HubPages staff have no idea whether you've been referred or not, and here's why.
   
   Not long after WryLilt joined here, a problem occurred and her Hubs had to be moved to a new account.  During the transfer, HubPages staff asked her whether she'd been referred by anyone and if so, who.
   
   How do I know?   Because WryLilt guessed wrong.   She was my referral but she named someone else! I wrote to HubPages when I realised her old username had disappeared from my referrals but her new name didn't get added.   I got a reply to say they were sorry, they didn't have access to referrals information so they'd relied on Wry's advice. 
   
   If staff accessing the "back end" of the site can't see referrals, then it's highly unlikely that moderators and staff choosing HOTD can.
   
   Another point - referred Hubbers are NOT a tiny minority.   I'm probably someone's referral, I don't know and I don't care.   If you browsed around a few Hubs before you joined up, there's a good chance you clicked on a link with a tracker - especially if you joined a few years ago, when every internal link had a tracker in it (that's what we were encouraged to do).

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10. 79

    Jayne Lancerposted 9 years ago

    Although I'm pretty sure that referrals aren't discriminated against by HubPages staff, and am now convinced that referrers have no data they can use to calculate their referral's earnings, I can understand why Paradigmsearch no longer wants to be Relache's referral. I'd feel exactly the same if I were him. I'd absolutely resent her humiliating remark, and wouldn't want her to have any part of my earnings. I'd no doubt close my account and open a new one just to be rid of her.

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    1. 87

       Marisa Wrightposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Paradigmsearch has raised that issue elsewhere and has every right to.  But that's a separate issue.

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       1. 96

          SmartAndFunposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          I think under the circumstances, he has been really cool about it.
          
          It would be nice if they would accommodate him. There's not much of a reason not to, that I can think of. It doesn't seem like such a difficult request, in my opinion, but I don't know how things work behind the scenes.

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       2. 79

          Jayne Lancerposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          Is it a separate issue? Then why does Paradigmsearch say above 'Changing that parameter to "...then you'll enjoy 10% of their first five years of impressions automatically." would not inhibit or reduce the desired response to this incentive. Frankly, I think you could accomplish your objective with a three year cap'?

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          1. 87

             Marisa Wrightposted 9 years agoin reply to this

             This is what he says in his original post:
             
             "Knowing one's value to HP is an important factor in determining how much time, labor, and even money the Hubber would want to invest in that account."
             
             You note, nothing about having the ability to remove referrals in that post or any of his replies.  The limit has been suggested in one post today. 
             
             Later in the thread, he goes on to clarify what he's after:  he feels that if you're a referral, you're worth only 30% to HubPages, not 40%, and that could affect HubPages' perception of your worth.
             
             That's the issue that I've addressed in my posts because that is the issue that's been raised.  Anything else is off-topic.

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             1. 79

                Jayne Lancerposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                I am following this thread and the course it is taking. If you don't like what I say or what I think, ignore.

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    2. 61

       paradigmsearchposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Thank you, Jayne. One hub already gone, more to follow. It really would save me one heck of a lot of work if HP were to  simply introduce that 5-year cap.

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       1. 87

          Marisa Wrightposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          Haven't you noticed, that once a staff member has answered one of these threads, they don't usually come back?  So unless you've suggested the 5 year cap somewhere else, I doubt it's been added to their list.

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       2. 79

          Jayne Lancerposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          I'm so sorry, Paradigmsearch. I really hope some other course of action is made available in order that you don't have to start from scratch. Can you wait until Monday or Tuesday? Maybe a staff member will come back to this thread by then. My fingers are crossed for you.

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11. 76

    psycheskinnerposted 9 years ago

    I think marking referred accounts could create a kind of discrimination that does not currently exist. Because people would assume one or other status was better and want it changed on their account.

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12. 82

    snakeslaneposted 9 years ago

    Darn, I wish that referral that signed up with me had had some Hubs! Why would anyone do that? I don't get it.

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    1. 87

       Marisa Wrightposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       I have over 500 referrals and only two of them have ever written a decent number of Hubs.  That's what happens.
       
       One, people sign up in a flush of enthusiasm then never get around to writing anything.  Two, people sign up for the wrong reasons and get banned for publishing spammy Hubs.  Three, the "comments" section on a Hub is confusing for non-members - some people think they have to sign up to leave a comment, and they never have any intention of writing.
       
       Like Susana, at one time I used to write to inactive referrals to ask if I could help them get started, but it never made any difference.

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       1. 82

          snakeslaneposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          Thanks Marisa, you are so thorough, I was pretty sure one referral would not amount to a hill of beans in the bigger world of  Hub economics. Now I am curious why the signup button on the referral stats page no longer shows who it is, has that changed do you know, or am I looking in the wrong place for the info?

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          1. 87

             Marisa Wrightposted 9 years agoin reply to this

             Not sure where you're looking.
             
             Click on "Earnings"  then "Referral Trackers" then click on the tracking token.  That will take you to the list of people who have signed up.

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             1. 82

                snakeslaneposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                Ah yes, there it is, thanks!

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