eBay Capsule Outlawed By New EPN Policies

1. 71

   Janet21posted 15 years ago

   If Hubpages can't work things out with ebay, I have decided to just remove my epn affiliate coding and leave some of the eBay capsules on my hubs if I can't find a replacement item on amazon.  I will change the capsules I can to amazon, and the rest will just stay and earn money for hubpages.  Why I am doing this?
   
   1. Some of my hubs are geared around eBay and would not work without the ebay links.  However, I don't want to delete the hubs since they are receiving good traffic and earning me $ with amazon, adsense and my 3rd party affiliate sites.
   
   2.  Removing the ebay capsules would completely ruin the layout of the hubs.
   
   3. It will save me time changing all of my Hubs.
   
   4.  I only have 34 hubs, so at the end of the day, there will only be a small number of eBay capsules left on my hubs. 
   
   5. I don't mind earning some money for Hubpages. They provide me a free platform so why not?
   
   If an agreement can't be reached between HP and epn,  going forward I will build my hubs differently; with ebay links no longer required to make the hubs work.
   
   On another note, I was wondering if Hubpages would ever decide to have their eBay capsules work like they do on Squidoo.  Where HP receives all the earnings on their ebay affiliate ID and then they distribute the earnings to the hubbers that made the sales.  I am not even sure yet if this is an accepted model anymore as far as ebay goes, but it is just a thought.....This way HP and hubbers could still benefit from eBay sales.

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   1. STAFF

      pauldeedsposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      We are awaiting clarification, but as far as we can tell this is no longer allowed. From their May Blog Post:
      
      "Sub-affiliates:  Any arrangement where publishers distribute their earnings from eBay Partner Network to other publishers. Like ad networks, this has been a model that required special permission until now but will no longer be allowed in eBay Partner Network."

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         Sally's Troveposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         This is bleak news for business. HP has been a business that channels business in eBay's direction.  At this point, I think eBay is killing itself.  Thanks for the update.

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         lakeerieartistsposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         I do not think what Squidoo does is considered an ad network or subaffiliates.

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            Marisa Wrightposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Lakeerieartists, the quote is eBay's definition of what a sub-affiliate is.  Squidoo does "distribute their earnings from eBay Partner Network to other publishers".  Therefore that means they fit the definition.

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               lakeerieartistsposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               I am not trying to argue with you, but if you go to SquidU and read through the forum posts there, you will see that thought is that Squidoo ebay modules will not be affected.  I guess we will all find out by August 1.

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                  Marisa Wrightposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  Are the forum posts made by Squidoo staffers?  The definition certainly appears to apply squarely to their mode of operation, so if the offical Squidoo line is that they're safe, then they've either found a loophole or they've done a special deal.
                  
                  As you say, not much point in all the panic, we'll find out soon enough!

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            2. 82

               Whitney05posted 15 years agoin reply to this

               I second this. There is no reason why Squidoo doesn't qualify. They split earnings just like HP does. I thought I read on the ebay forums, where Squidoo was specifically mentioned somewhere to being barred from ebay capsules. I'd take ebay's word over writers on squidoo unless it was the staff saying they don't count as a part of the rules, as I'd assume they heard from ebay, which would be odd as HP hasn't yet and we all got then newsletter at the same time.

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                  Marisa Wrightposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  Well actually they don't, because we put our own affiliate code on our Hubs, whereas Squidoo uses its own code and gives the lens builder a cut. 
                  
                  
                  Yes, it was specifically mentioned (the text has been quoted a couple times on here already), which is why I'm so surprised they think they're safe.
                  
                  I assume it's because all the focus has been on publishers putting their own code on someone else's website (which isn't the case on Squidoo).  They may be missing the section on sub-affiliates, or have decided that for some reason, it doesn't apply to them.

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                     Whitney05posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                     Gotcha... I didn't think about how we put our ID in HP, but not on Squidoo. Maybe Squidoo has a loophole since they're using their own ID and splitting the revenue. I just don't trust their system in terms of getting proper revenue from those capsules. I'd rather just take them off HP if that ends up being the case than going back to Squidoo. I want proof from the affiliate that I made earnings, not from the website.
                     
                     I think there just needs to be clarification all around the board. Till then, I wait.

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                        Janet21posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                        With any revenue sharing site there is a certain level of trust involved.  Personally, I trust Squidoo just as I trust Hubpages to be fair and accurate with my earnings.  I have been on Squidoo for over 2 1/2 years and have never had reason to believe I was not being credited for sales made on my lenses. 
                        
                        As far as what is going to be allowed on these sites going forward, it still unclear.  I am taking a wait and see attitude and just hoping for the best.

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                           Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                           There was a period when i promoted similar lenses and hubs equally. In fact lenses got higher in search results than hubs. However, the revenue was a fraction of what I had on HP. Like one tenth or even lower. Sorry, can't be a fair game...

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                              Janet21posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                              Money is earned differently on Hubpages and Squidoo, so it is difficult to compare the two sites solely based on traffic.  For instance, I have some hubs with much more traffic than a lens on the similar topic, but my lens earns more money.  And, vice versa.  I believe that Squidoo is an honest site.  If I didn't think that I wouldn't be creating lenses there.  I have no reason to believe otherwise.

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                  relacheposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  Actually, how a site user earns revenue from eBay on Squidoo is not the same as to how they earn on HubPages.  I suggest you read your TOS documents... boy, you sure skip that part a lot, huh?

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                     Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                     Should this be girl, not boy?

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      Froggy213posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      A very good point--Hub-pages has been very good to me also and I may consider this too.

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   Rhianni32posted 15 years ago

   Unless I missed the answer in this and other threads my question is... why is ebay doing this?
   Ok so they dont want people to be confused as to what they are buying vs being on Ebay but is that really so big of an issue that they would feel the need to cut off traffic from sites like hubpages? Apparently so but I cant help but agree with many of you that this is a big mistake.
   Luckily I am just starting out and will focus on amazon.
   
   I do agree with another poster (Misha I believe) that there is a point when you are treated poorly you just stop working with them completely. I wonder if Ebay has fully thought that part out.

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3. 69

   MellasViewsposted 15 years ago

   Ugh, they should grandfather in the ones we are already using or something. What a headache. I will have to clean up my blogs all week long now. But then again, let em cut me. I have made a grand total of $5 since last january, so if they cut me, my loss is not huge. This sucks though for those who were using it and doing well with it.

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   Mobile Phonesposted 15 years ago

   Thank God, I am new to here. Am too excited about all this.

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   ThePartyAnimalposted 15 years ago

   I say everyone should just relax and wait until HP and Squidoo make an official announcement. It seems things are still up in the air and no one has clear clarification. I am just going to wait and not panic just yet.

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6. 81

   embitcaposted 15 years ago

   The way I interpreted the remarks on the EPN discussion board about Squidoo is that you cannot use your own EPN campaign codes on Squidoo. I'd be willing to bet you can continue to use the Ebay lens modules.
   
   It seemed to me that when they clarified things about sub-affiliates a few weeks ago that they specifically were excluding a bunch of their larger partners from the new terms, such as Squidoo. I'm just surprised that didn't also apply to Hubpages in this situation.
   
   Also, I would be willing to bet that if Seth Godin needs to clarify something with EPN he can just pick up the phone and call them. He isn't exactly Mr Nobody when it comes to the internet LOL

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      thefluffanuttaposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Exactly.
      
      To quote a post on SquidU by the chief engineer: "Considering that we *do* maintain control over the content and we *are* sending targeted traffic via a single affiliate account, I don't see how we are affected."
      
      The real issue is having your own EPN affiliate links on a lens or a hub, which could potentially get your account banned.
      
      We will have to wait and see what happens...

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         Marisa Wrightposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Thanks for that.  I had a look at the discussion and no one has raised the OTHER new clause which prohibits a publisher splitting their eBay earnings with other publishers - which is what Squidoo does.  Has that been discussed anywhere else on SquidU?

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            Janet21posted 15 years agoin reply to this

            I don't believe that clause was brought up in the forums, so I suppose that may still be questionable.  What I do find interesting is that when I did a search on what is a sub-affiliate, I came across this definition:
            
            A sub-affiliate is someone who joins a two-tier affiliate program after being referred to it by another affiliate.
            As well as earning commissions on your own sales, you earn commissions on sub-affiliate sales.
            
            This is not how Squidoo works, so I find it odd that eBay used that term.

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               Marisa Wrightposted 15 years agoin reply to this

               ..which is odd because eBay's new policy gives this definition:
               
               "Sub-affiliates:  Any arrangement where publishers distribute their earnings from eBay Partner Network to other publishers."

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                  Janet21posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                  I guess eBay has the power to make up their own definition.

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7. 0

   Nelle Hoxieposted 15 years ago

   I've deleted my Ebay focused hubs and am waiting for the caches to clear in google. Once that is done and I don't have to worry about duplicate content, they are going on my privately owned website. I've already started building webpages there, that were the hubs I was going to build here.
   
   It seems pretty clear to me what Ebay is after, and I don't feel like fighting city hall. But then again I had only completed 6 Ebay hubs, so I didn't have that much to lose.
   
   My sympathies to all of you who have so much more. It took me ages just to delete all of my Ebay capsules on 135 hubs, that were both Ebay and Amazon.

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   Mishaposted 15 years ago

   I don't really know whether Squidoo is honest or not, but HP model is way more transparent and does not really leave a room for any doubt that you are making exactly what your traffic brings you.

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      Janet21posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      That's true. As long as the 60/40 pageviews split has been tested and verified, then there isn't any doubt the earnings are accurate on HP.

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   Mishaposted 15 years ago

   You can always write a script, or even test it manually, it just takes some time

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      Janet21posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      I am not a tech person, so I could never write a script and I don't have time to test it manually.  I'll just give HP the benefit of the doubt.

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         Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         LOL me too, but i actually can write a script (which I didn't). But I did test it at the beginning

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    Mishaposted 15 years ago

    Talking about a head in the sand LOL
    
    (Not about you Janet, about Squidoo management)

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11. 57

    guidebabaposted 15 years ago

    Still no Official Update Here !
    
    

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12. 60

    carpesomediemposted 15 years ago

    I went through all my eBay capsules and changed them to Amazon ones, since I've yet to earn a dime from eBay and have earned from Amazon in the last few months.

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       Janet21posted 15 years agoin reply to this

       I wish amazon offered the products I promote through eBay, but they don't.  I make more money with eBay than with Amazon (except for an ocassional diamond ring sale) , so I am patiently awaiting the verdict...

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13. 84

    Marisa Wrightposted 15 years ago

    Hubbers who aren't US residents need to be careful with Amazon.  They only pay in US dollars. 
    
    If you try to bank a US dollar cheque in Australia, you get slugged with a bank fee of at least $30.  So Amazon really isn't worth it for me.
    
    That's why I like eBay and Adsense, because they both pay in a range of currencies including Aussie dollars.
    
    If the eBay capsules aren't allowed, I'll just settle for Adsense, thank you!

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       Hovalisposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Marisa, I have had cheques from the US, including one from Amazon, and all I was charged was a $10 processing fee. This is annoying on a $100 cheque, but I have my limit set higher for a cheque to be sent to try and offset that. The real bummer for me is that it takes 3 weeks to clear. I once asked the bank (Commonwealth) if they were sending the cheque by carrier pigeon. It would explain a few things.

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14. 75

    Lissieposted 15 years ago

    Hovalis is right - the CBA charges me A$10 to clear a non-A$ cheque and 3 weeks to do it -thats the real scam - and I too just upped my min payout on Amazon to $250

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       Marisa Wrightposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Thanks Lissie and Hovalis - the last time I tried to bank a US$ cheque was 4-5 years ago, when I was an eBay seller. I sold an item for $25 and it would have cost me more to bank the cheque than it was worth!  So I've never tried again.  Sounds like things have improved, so maybe I should reconsider.

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15. 79

    kiwi91posted 15 years ago

    I'm curious on how capsules will translate if they give us some sort of tool to change the Ebay capsules to Amazon capsules. I think we're going to come down editing each hub and choosing new Amazon products to feature. If the same keywords are used that were in the Ebay capsules, I'm sure plenty of the Amazon capsules would wind up empty (for me anyway).
    
    I'm going to have a tough time finding some relevant products to feature without the Ebay capsule, considering around 20 of my hubs are Ebay tutorials. You can only feature so many books and cameras.

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       Marisa Wrightposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       I agree - the general consensus seems to be that you MUST choose specific products on Amazon if you want to make decent sales on the Amazon capsules. I think the keyword option may work better than you think, though - I'm amazed at the range of products Amazon stocks these days.
       
       PS Has this post come out with strange formatting or is it just my browser?

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16. 82

    Whitney05posted 15 years ago

    kiwi, I agree it will be hard to change some hubs to amazon versus ebay, as I have a few hubs that were made specifically for ebay products.

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    Mishaposted 15 years ago

    This is just your browser

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18. 57

    guidebabaposted 15 years ago

    eBay is showing the income now. Is that a Good News for Hubbers?
    
    

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       Marisa Wrightposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       I think the problem with showing income was completely unrelated.

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          bigmikehposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Correct. eBay have been rolling out new software to handle the changes. This has affected reporting for affiliates. You may be interested to know that you are now recommended to validate your eBay affiliate site domains. Login to EPN and go to Account/Domains to submit your sites. Only for sites you own of course as you have to upload a file for validation.
          
          This means that you cannot validate eBay Hubs, which takes us back to the beginning ie all new hubbers are now effectively excluded from eBay, unless they have an existing EPN account.

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    Mrvoodooposted 15 years ago

    Is it still possible that we might be able to continue using EPN here then?

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       bigmikehposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Not sure I understand your logic. I'll quote directly from the EPN user manual FAQ.
       
       Do I need to validate a domain to be accepted into the eBay Partner Network?
       
       Yes. Every publisher must register at least one domain with us
       
       So to join the eBay Partner Network as of 20 July, you must validate a domain by uploading a file to its root directory. As far as I'm aware this is not possible on Hubpages, Squidoo or similar sites where users don't have FTP access to the root domain. So new members of such sites cannot join EPN. If they already have one of their own sites they could validate that domain, but would be in breach of EPN rules placing eBay content on sites they don't own.

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          Mrvoodooposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Logic?  What logic?  It was a question. It wasn't a direct response to you or your previous post.  It was a question to HubPages as we haven't received an absolute yes or no yet and I was under the impression that they may be in negotiations of some kind.
          
          I'm already a member of the EPN and use it elsewhere.

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             bigmikehposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             Apologies if I offended - I thought you were responding to previous posts

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                Mrvoodooposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                No worries, just holding out for an answer, and hoping that HP are exempt (although I agree that chances are slim).

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       darksideposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Chances are, no. But we're all waiting for confirmation on that. But I'm resigned to it being a big fat no.

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          Mrvoodooposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          
          
          grrrrr, I was just starting to make some regular sales through HP with EPN too, I'm not a huge fan of Amazon, but guess it's time to push forward with them a little more.
          
          Cheers for the info.

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20. 84

    Marisa Wrightposted 15 years ago

    I've deleted my affiliate ID from the "Affiliate Settings" page but I haven't done anything about removing my eBay capsules - assuming that HP have done what they said they would, and put their own affiliate ID in there. 
    
    I have all my fingers and toes crossed.  I do hope eBay replies soon, or I'll turn into a pretzel!

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       Janet21posted 15 years agoin reply to this

       I don't think Hubpages has changed the capsules over to 100% their affiliate account yet since I am still receiving eBay earnings on my Hubs, the latest being today.  I am not removing my epn affiliate ID from Hubpages until August 1st since that is the official deadline.  If epn is going to drop HP, I am going to get every last cent I can from them.

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          Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Exactly my approach

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             Janet21posted 15 years agoin reply to this

             Which approach, mine or Marisa's?

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          Whitney05posted 15 years agoin reply to this

          If you haven't removed your ID, then that's why you're still getting revenue. Your ID will still be on 60% of the time. You have to remove your ID in order for HP to take over. Also consider Ebay has a 7 day cookie, so you'll still potentially get revenue even if the ID has been removed for a cookie planted 5 days ago, so to speak.

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             Janet21posted 15 years agoin reply to this

             I was under the impression they were just going to set the Ebay capsules to 100% HP and that it would automatically override any affiliate coding.  "most likely we'll switch to running the HubPages eBay affiliate code 100% of the time".  I didn't think it mattered if we removed our coding or not.  You are right about the cookie, though.  Regardless, I am leaving my affiliate coding on until the first.  Got five more sales today.

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                Whitney05posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                If your ID is still in place, then you're sending out cookies. They were going to replace to their 100% showing if it's determined that we can't use our IDs. You'll still have to remove your ID, I'm sure. They haven't changed anything.

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                1. STAFF

                   pauldeedsposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                   Assuming eBay does not give us the green light to continue as we have, beginning on August 1st we will run the HubPages code 100% of the time regardless of whether you've removed your eBay affiliate code on the settings page or not.  We will also provide a relatively easy way to convert existing eBay capsules to Amazon capsules.

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                      kiwi91posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                      That's good to hear, I wasn't looking forward to editing all of those hubs. Thanks!

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                      guidebabaposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                      That should be great.

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                      Whitney05posted 15 years agoin reply to this

                      Gotcha. Sounds good. I'd still like to convert as needed, as not all of my ebay capsules would work for amazon.
                      
                      I'm in for a lot of converting and changing... I'm sad. :-(
                      
                      And of course what happens if Ebay TOS changes again to allow it or the green light is passed after August 1st, then we have to change again... Yikes... I would like to say too bad forget ebay in that case, but dangit that extra helps each month.

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                         guidebabaposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                         We will KICK eBay on Its ASS. It got millions of FREE Backlinks and ranked high on search engines because of publishers like us and the links that we provided.
                         
                         eBay deserves some punishment here !
                         
                         Is there anything we can do?
                         
                         

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                            Alex ONeillposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                            Yup you can sell as much of their rival's stuff as possible. Go Amazon Go

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    Mishaposted 15 years ago

    Yours.

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    guidebabaposted 15 years ago

    Seems like HP is still awaiting any GOOD Response from eBay. Whatever be their response, I think they are making the GREATEST Mistake with this NEW Policy.

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       Hovalisposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       One mistake among many, but eBay seem to be making a habit of offending anyone who sends money in their direction...like sellers and affiliates. I get the impression that, overall, they think they have the market sewn, so it doesn't matter what they do. So far, that's seems to have been the case. Unfortunately.

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          Marisa Wrightposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          I think what they're trying to do is cut out the "small fry".  It seems a strange way to do it - all they needed to do was increase their minimum payout to $100, and it would have had the same effect.

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    guidebabaposted 15 years ago

    I am wondering why there NO RESPONSE from HP Staff.
    
    

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    Mishaposted 15 years ago

    Because they are busy doing their job, and there is nothing new to report.

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    WeddingConsultantposted 15 years ago

    Couple comments on the topic:
    
    1. I feel bad for everyone who has been using Ebay for a good stream of income- seriously it has to suck. Personally, I got rejected from the program for my own mistakes, but was turned off by their utter lack of cordial response to my communication and re-application into their program. Ebay, you have given me nothing but a bad taste in my mouth.
    
    2. As I see it there are a couple viable alternatives that hubpages could explore:
    
    A- Hubpages could use their own affiliate code, track all sales then dish out a % of income to hubbers who brought in those sales. This would allow for people like me (who got rejected from program) to still use Ebay capsules and earn money (although I don't want to send one dime to Ebay). This is essentially what squidoo does right now, if I understand their program correctly.
    B- Another, equally as authoritative affiliate program could be made available to us in lieu of ebay. Granted, Kontera was a total flop, but I'm sure there other credible affiliate programs on the interweb that could be substituted.
    
    Thoughts?

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    Mishaposted 15 years ago

    1. yes, bad taste. still makes some money, but I am not pushing it anymore.
    2A. It would be Squidoo model, that likely is outlawed, too - read the thread more carefully. At the same time, i doubt HP would be happy about starting to deal in customer's money, so far they managed to avoid this.
    2B CJ might work, IDK. This is pretty much what I can think about

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    Mishaposted 15 years ago

    You can continue ranting and rambling, or you can cut your loss and move on. Your choice

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    Peter Brownposted 15 years ago

    I say we torture them by sitting them in the comfy chair and hitting them with soft pillows!

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       guidebabaposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Got it. Just sit down and relax and focus more on other revenue sources.

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    Janet21posted 15 years ago

    Update on the epn situation and it is good news.
    http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/18361

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