We are going to increase Amazon earnings for most of you! Amazon is becoming part of the HP Earnings program. In early November folks will have the opportunity to switch to get paid their Amazon earnings through the HP Earnings program. For new Hubbers, this will greatly simplify the signup process and we should be at the top commission scale where we can pass higher earnings to people monetizing their Hubs with Amazon.
I'd like for people to ask us all the questions they have about the new service and we will put together an FAQ answering them. We will continue to update you as we get closer to launching.
I lose money when i turn on hpads, I am losing money from the new ebay hp ads and now it looks like i am going to lose out on amazon too, Paul why cant we opt in or out from the new ad setups and keep our old accounts?.....jimmy
Will the Amazon program work similar to Ebay where we get paid though clicks? Will this affect our external Amazon account?
@jimmythejock Let's look at your account together and see. You should be earning more from HP ads. Sometimes folks aren't calculating it correctly. email me a time you're going to be online.
eBay takes a bit of time to settle down - I saw it drop and then come back to where I was earning before.
Amazon is going to be based on conversions, so you shouldn't see a change here.
So there will be the same detailed reports that I get from Amazon: I will see every item that I've been paid commission on?
And I'll get commission on the other random stuff people put in their shopping cart - not just the item they clicked through on?
One thing that I'm sure no one is thinking about while the impact of this is being thought about - will this offer affiliates protection when Amazon has to close affiliations in some States? or is it still linked to the state I live in?
"In early November folks will have the opportunity to switch to get paid their Amazon earnings through the HP Earnings program."
Can we assume by the choice of wording here that the switch will be optional and not mandatory? Definition of 'opportunity': "A set of circumstances that makes it possible to do something.".
I would be extremely disappointed if Hubpages were to force everybody into making this switch on a program which did not have the same limitations as eBay in terms of accessibility, I have yet to hear of anybody finding it difficult to obtain an Amazon Associates account.
This move (if mandatory) is of detriment to those who use Amazon away from the site, moving up from 8% to 8.5% on items sold on Hubpages is not going to result in additional income for the hubber if their off-site Amazon sales are bumped down from 8% to 7.5%. It has the potential to decrease their income if the focus on capped items on HP and non-capped items away from HP.
This move alienates those who are based in less developed nations and those whom do not have access to Paypal through no fault of their own. In fact, in almost every country outside of the US people have to pay $20-$30 to cash an American cheque at their local bank, and as such they wait to meet high thresholds such as $500 or $1000 before being sent their $ Amazon cheques.
HP isn't saving them money by pushing it through paypal, they are only resulting in existing revenues + future off-site revenues being stuck and inaccessible for the longer term.
This move really should be optional rather than mandatory, I'm sure that HP would have plenty of take-up and that those who opt-out would be firmly within a minority, but there are a few people who would be disadvantaged by it and therefore I can't help but feel that HP have a moral responsibility to permit an opt-out (just like the HubAd program).
Paul, I am so sorry to say how completely disappointed I am that you are doing this now, in the last quarter of the year, when I can finally reap the rewards for all of the work that I have put in all year. I agree with several of the others who are saying that they would rather opt out, because even if you are going to give us 8.5% on our share, it takes away from the total that we are earning on Amazon. This site does not operate in a vacuum, nor do the writers that you have here.
Well a lot of them do, and this would be a good opportunity for them, but this is precisely why this should unequivocally be optional.
A mandatory system results in:
1) More money for some
2) Less money for some
An optional system results in:
1) More money for some
2) No change for some
It really is a no brainer if the HP team cares one bit about the contributors. I actually LIKE the idea, for those who benefit, but only if it is not imposed on those who will not. Just like HPads, this should be optional.
Fantastic idea if optional, selfish idea if mandatory. I await further information, but I won't hold my breath.
I have signed up for Amazon. I do not want to be part of the new ads. Can I opt out? There is not way to deactivate Amazon.
You guys rock, it's like almost every other week that something new concerning making MORE money with you kicks in!
I'm kind of iffy on how you're putting all of our eggs in one basket and all our money will be coming through you now... as most people know that income streams dry up from time to time... why have us all come to you for our trickle of income?
I now see how we might get more money and it makes sense... but I'm still iffy about it... I liked that I had money coming from different places because if one dropped the others stayed up... what happens if HP drops?
Are we going to see a day where we no longer get AdSense payments anymore too?
I haven't been with HP or Amazon very long, so I haven't made much money. Will this new service help me make more money, or hinder my chances?
I signed up here two years ago, but I am just beginning to write here. Any change would have minimal impact on me. I estimate that it will take 2-3 months to start seeing anything more than my WHOPPING 40 cents, which is better than Adsense on any given day!
My policy will be to watch this forum and to see what happens in November.
For people who do not earn a huge amount on Amazon, I think this could be a good thing!
I do like to see my own sales through Amazon. Will we still be able to track this, or will it be invisible and lumped in to other HP earnings
Here's a big question that will help me make up my mind. On Amazon I only need about $10 in my account and then I'll get paid...
Now are you going to require us to earn $50 from Amazon alone in a month in order to be paid or are you going to require us to earn $50 from HP Ads+Amazon to be paid?
I'm hoping you are going with the second option.
Why can't HP work something out with the team to transfer the earnings now being held to our new accounts? This seems only fair, don't you think?
I don't see why. Your old account is "my name" your new account is "my name at hubpages". They are different accounts under different terms that are (from Amazon's point of view) completely unrelated.
I plan to use both and do not want my "my name" account messed with. So they would have to somehow go through every account and find out who wanted the balance, get permission from each person to move the balance, work out which "my name" belonged with which "my name at hubpages" account (they are not linked in any way) etc. Then some people would want to swap back and it would never end.
IMHO, if you want to keep using the old "my name" account--you can, now you just have another option should you want to take it up. It is no different to someone who opens a hubpages account and never reaches $50. They never get paid because the effort is not worth it and them's the rules.
I don't quite get how it all works. It makes me uncomfortable, not being able to see stuff the way I can with adsense etc.
My question (I guess) is how does it work - and can we see the same detailed info?
Oh ... and is this for all affiliates, even those in states that had previously lost their affiliation?
it sounds like since it will be going through the HPad program that opting out of the HP ads would revert amazon/ebay back to the old program?
Is that an opportunity or a requirement? I like Amazon - and my earnings via HP makes it easier to get to the 8% payout level with my own sites.
So will we have to change over to HPAds - Amazon edition - or can we continue to use our own affiliate IDs
So I guess I'm going to be on the losers list as well - same as Jimmy
Will this be optional, being able to control my reporting on amazon is hugely important to my strategy, if I lose the Data I collect through my Amazon control panel I am going to have some very serious concerns.
Also will we be paid our commission still, or will you be paying us an ECPM, I really would rather get paid a commission of sales value.
And most importantly, please don't tell us that this is being implemented before Christmas, this is a crucial time for many of us, and it is probably not the best time to throw a new earnings system out there.
I also have to echo Jimmy the Jock, while I have not had much chance to test out Hub Ads effectively, it looks like I may not be getting much benefit from it, and it may be losing me Amazon sales. I am also losing money on the new eBay service, with around a 50% drop.
Amazon is one of the few ways that I am actually still earning anything significant from Hubpages, I am not sure why it needs to be changed, and if it is changed and I see a drop in earnings there will be very little incentive for me to continue publishing here.
I generally reach the high end commission scale of Amazon anyway, so I will not receive much benefit from that, but I see plenty of potential for me to lose out here.
Even though I lost out on eBay i see why you did it, not many people can get approved for eBay, but it is very easy for people to be approved for Amazon, and taking that 'in-house' means that Hubpages is becoming very much 'squidoo-ish' and actually makes me fearful that we are heading to their style of earnings model, which is to put it bluntly, atrocious.
That sounds like a really awesome idea. You guys rock. I have a question though. Currently, I use the HP Amazon affiliate code in links on my personal websites as well so that I don't have to use 2 separate affiliate accounts. Is this still going to be possible under the new system? I could just see affiliates signing up for Hubpages just to get a higher affiliate commission to their personal sites and I don't think Amazon would like that too much.
NO Benji they don't rock -they are trying to maximise their revenue - fair enough as a private company - but I really wish they would be more transparent about it.
My guess - and this was the question I asked above - was that no you won't be able to combine your affiliate incomes - so you HP amazon sales will no longer help boost your other sites commissions up to the higher levels
I'm surprised that anything here could shock me anymore, but it did. I'm not surprised that HP is doing this, but I am totally at a loss as to why they would do this in November -- with only two weeks' notice -- except to maximize their own purse strings.
HP -- If you're gonna do it, at least don't try to couch it with "We're looking out for your best interests." Man up and tell it like it is.
I don't like anything I'm hearing so far about this. I'm not sure how revenue is split between HP and Hubbers now. In the beginning (a few years ago), anything earned by a Hubber via eBay or Amazon was 100% belonging to the Hubber. Things have changed over time, but now you may be telling me that my Amazon earnings are going to be shared by HP?
I don't give a crap about eBay earnings, because I never had any...but I get a monthly payout from Amazon, and I don't want to share it with HP.
Please be more specific about how this good news about Amazon earnings as part of the HP earnings program is going to benefit us and not you at our expense.
You already do. HP takes 40% of the views, including any impressions and clicks - it has been that as long as I've been here and presumably this wouldn't change. I don't even see how it would increase HP's income - their code has to be on enough purchases to already be top tier.
they share page views/impression not splitting your commissions. They've always done it this way- on YOUR impressions you do and still make 100% of the earnings you get from sales etc... but on theirs they get it- I don't see why that would change now, even the HPads payout the same way...
I don't know if this is a good or a bad thing, but I'm with the rest, this time of year is not a good time to change the system! I have just started earning some decent money off Amazon and seeing it changed now would be a real worry.
@Sally's Trove - the revenue share won't change, but with all the volume together, most people will get higher payouts since we can aggregate all the volume and achieve higher tiers.
For most, this should mean more money.
Sorry, Paul, that's a non-answer. Define revenue share and volume and tiers. What you said is opaque, the opposite of transparent.
Agreed. Currently the top tier for individual affiliates is 8.5% if they ship more than 3131 items/month. So yes I do think HP should probably be able to achieve that !
You won't make individual hubbers more money though unless you can compensate them for the loss of HP Amazon sales to bump up their other site's Amazon affiliate percentage.
And you've dodged the question: is this a compulsory "opportunity"?
For most this will mean more money, but what about those of us that are generating large numbers of sales.
People who rarely get above the 6% tier will no doubt love the extra 2.5%. But for those of us who make different sales the remaining 0.5%-1% is basically a non issues (Especially with Amazons long list of tier capped products).
I think my biggest questions here, simplified are
Will we still be paid per sale, or paid by ECPC/ECPM (*Shudders*)?
Will Hubpages take 40% of total affiliate earnings, or will they still take 40% of impressions?
Will this happen Before or after Christmas
Will we get any reporting?
Will Hubpages be opening up a Direct Deposit option instead of Paypal (An Extra 0.5% in tiered commisions will have even less benefit if I get hit by Paypal fees as well. I already am losing that on lost Adsense earnings.
What do you mean by "the revenue share won't change?}" That must mean that I continue to receive 100% of my impressions, correct? Or did I misunderstand?
Exactly. I'm all for this.
I don't even know if I've made any money from HP Amazon. I know it is a long time between payouts and in the past, what little I made came from my web site, not here.
But I'm all for it!
So, those who don't earn much from Amazon can get a higher percentage, and those who earn a higher percentage already are not happy. I see your best hubbers pulling their articles off hubpages so that new people here can earn more.
I think you summed it up. Out with the old, in with the new.
It doesn't have to be that way...but HP is not, has not been, extending itself to communicate effectively with some of its longest standing members. I think HP is on a solid path, but it's alienated a lot of its contributors, unnecessarily.
If the net change is going to be that we get a check from HP and that the entire site is to combined to find the tier for payment, that's fine and good.
If I lose the reports as to what's being bought that would hurt. I find it valuable to know this; it allows me to pretty much determine which hub is producing many of the clicks.
And finally, like others, I would be very concerned about the timing. It's fine to increase earnings for Xmas, but if it's more than simply combining all of HP together to determine the tier then something could always go wrong and cost us at this most important time of year for Amazon. Even at my pathetic earnings a couple of weeks loss of Amazon earning could be hundreds of dollars.
I don't understand anything in the mechanism it all works, but I know one thing- since this new outfit I lost Amazon earnings completely. And before I was paid every month. What, all of a sudden people stopped buying through me? Hard to believe. But it's a fact. No Amazon orders, no earnings. I checked the link- it is still linked to my account. But no sales any more. I just gave up, since i can't do any thing about it any way.
1. Will we still be able to see exactly what products were purchased/shipped under our affiliate id?
2. Will the non-HP Amazon Affiliate program (what we have right now) still be an option?
3. Exactly how will this switch make me more money?
4. Will I still be paid by Amazon at all?
5. Why make this change at all? Is this to make HP more money, too?
Amazon and eBay have always had the same 60% rev share as Adsense I think.
Sorry -- I said "100% of my impressons," which I meant as 60% of total impressions.
Will this open Amazon back up for those who live in states Amazon has ceased affiliate operations in?
Ahh sorry, I assume it means you will continue to get 100% earnings of your 60% impressions.
@thisisoli, Paul says right in his first post that this change is coming in early November. So much for the holidays...
@Paul, while I have been seeing an increase in my earnings from the various changes so far, I totally do not appreciate having zero useful data and being left in the dark as to what is selling from where. In case you guys in the home office haven't figured it out yet, sales data is really key in the world of retail. The reporting feature that presently exists here for eBay is absurdly inept compared to what we used to get from eBay (I don't care how much work Fawntia put into it, it sucks) and we all know damn well that you're sitting on top of all that data and not sharing it in a way that is useful/meaningful to Hub authors.
Am I looking forward to you doing it again to me over Amazon? No, not at all...
When one of our most respected and experienced Hubbers is concerned about something, HubPages management should listen. Will they?
Relache, besides putting the sales data across Hubs all in one place, what more would you like to see done with eBay reporting? I realize that it is annoying to have to go to each Hub to see what has sold from that Hub (but you can see what has sold from a particular Hub by going to stats -> eBay). I am working to put all of that data in one place now.
Given that you have all of two Hubs to crawl looking for sales and I have 200, I'd like to postulate that your use of the term "annoying" is an understatement.
On the off-chance that a Hub user does manage to find a Hub that has sales (a process that is entirely invisible until you actually get to the eBay tab in the metrics, so multiply 3 clicks per Hub as you look), they are then greeted by this opening line above any eBay data.
Can we please have the unhelpful information replaced with helpful information, like the exact earnings I'm used to seeing in the reports I used to get from eBay?
It's really clear the eBay Hub program was rushed through "in time for the holidays" instead of building a fully-functioning system that would work well for the end users and testing it first, and I feel that the predominantly ill-willed reception to the Amazon program announcement is neither a surprise nor undeserved.
Which eBay partner network reports do you (or did you) use regularly, and find to be helpful?
I would like to see some examples of what this means for high earners- a little before and after treatment.
I suspect it is designed to shape the kinds of hubs people produce.
I am guessing Hubpages want people to use Amazon and EBay simply as an additional revenue tool on pages they would write whether these programs existed or not.
Are people who quite consciously target these programs with marketer orientated pages a target here?
I could understand why Hubpages would take this view in the post Panda age but I need the money I am making with my diligently researched and constructed marketer pages. It makes writing the more 'worthy' pages possible.
edit: I forgot to include the quote that makes me nervous:
We are going to increase Amazon earnings for most of you!
'Most' suggests that there will be losers as well as winners.
While that may be true I didn't read it that way. Rather it seems to me that people already near the top tier won't see any increase. No decrease, but no increase either.
I interpret it that way too. People in the top tier will see no change since HP will be in the top tier and simply share that 40/60, so it will be the same amount and it will be split the same way.
People in lower tiers who get less that 8.5% from Amazon will see a gain since they will get 60% of an 8.5% earnings rather than 60% of whatever tier they are presently in with their own Amazon account.
Now this is where things are not so great... Anyone who uses their Amazon account on other sites, and the combination pushes them into a higher tier, may very well lose that higher tier percentage. They will still share in the top tier from sales via their Hubs, but they may lose out on their other sites.
The only solution I see to that last part is if HP makes this optional in the HP Earnings Program.
That would be nice. But no one has said that yet.
oh well, life goes on.
you folks have already hit the hot button questions, leaving me only the opportunity to make an ironical statement.
HP's drastic responses to Panda, and their ebay program issue, all of which really pissed me off, and created a lot more (I believe unnecessary) work, but in the end - actually helped me.
It forced me to realize I had too many eggs in one basket - it motivated me to diversify more
and it's working - I have already eclipsed my HP Amazon sales, (admittedly not previously a strong focus, but not peanuts either), with my own site sales.
Now I'm tackling ebay earnings with a couple of my own sites
I don't intend to abandon my HP content, it has age and links, but I am looking at HP with a whole different perspective.
Excellent point here. I have moved on from Hubpages this year, and spent my time developing my own sites. Hubpages underscored something that I already knew which was diversification was the key. Too bad it had to be done in such a poor manner.
I have to agree with the rest of the community on this. Not enough information has been presented and it really seems like we're being sold a dud here.
While the prospect of higher commissions per sale for new hubbers sounds nice, what about the percentage of new hubbers who also operate blogs or other websites? This is a whole demographic that depends on ads across multiple writing platforms in order to meet the minimum payout for Amazon.
The point that HP pays through paypal is also another concern, as it's just another mechanism that bites into writers' pockets. And as others have pointed out, this is a very interesting time of year to implement changes to a key element of earnings for many revenue-share content providers.
Why does Paypal bite into writers' pockets? I still have not reached the $50 payout for HubPage Ads, so I am not sure what you mean. My Google Adsense dropped to around $0 each month since I signed up for HubPage Ads, so I am holding out for my 50 bucks through HubPages, maybe in time for the holidays.
Thanks for your help.
the only money I've gotten so far is a HP payout into Paypal - seemed to be all there.
Yes, I definitely trust that HupPages will pay - with no issues - as I have been working so hard to reach my $50 payout. I just wish could understand what is a better payout - Google Adsense or HubPages Ad Program? I have not reached a payout for Google since Jan 2011 and am still waiting for a HubPages Ad Program payout.
Like I said, I work so hard, and all of the forum posts are a bit overwhelming sometimes - so it is hard for me to know which Ad Program is a better option.
Thank you, MarloByDesign
it's all very confusing with so many options. The threshold for adsense is 3x higher, and I'm a while off to reach that. I haven't accumulated much on amazon yet - almost enough for a voucher
Paul Edmondson just wrote a Hub about making that decision if you want to check it out.
oops missed where Paul said it was coming in November, in which case - is it please, pretty please, possible that this could be held off until after teh Christmas period?
To the people saying we don't have much information yet, thats why Paul opened up the floor for questions and concerns
I have a lot of serious concerns about this, and have vocalized them. If these concerns are unwarranted then I look forward to seeing how it will be handled, however after seeing my hubpages income drop to a fraction of what it was pre-panda, despite my traffic returning, I really would like to see this done with care and consideration to the high earners on this site (for whom it may have the most impact).
I started this month thinking all I had to do was avoid falling victim to Panda and I could expect a very healthy income here. Then we had the adsense ad placement change which will probably cost me a couple of hundred dollars a month and now we have Amazon changes that might cost me even more (although it is impossible to tell since the information is scant).
All these HP Earning Programs seems to assume that Pay Pal is compatible to every Hubber in every county. It is not.
To state the obvious: - The shift to payments for the Adsense ads and Amazon via the Earnings Program, rather than directly to the author, is of primary benefit to HP as they get to use the funds until the payout threshold is reached (income to HP and authors is also increased). There some benefits to the authors in terms of increased funds (via Adsense and Amazon). The disadvantages are that it may take longer to get paid, for authors who have multiple sources of funds flowing into their adsense accounts. Authors also lose access to all the stats information available from Adsense and Amazon about which hubs are paying, etc. There is also loss of transparency about the sources of income as all payments are combined in the Earnings Program and the CPM is combined. I guess the other benefit to HP is that is can display the ads once (not 60% of the time for author; 40% for HP) and simply share the net income 60:40 which is much simpler.
So does this mean that we will need to set up new Amazon accounts within HP and have our existing accounts separate? Are we allowed two accounts if so? I think we need more detailed information about how this will work. Although the 8.5% sounds good, like the others I wouldn't want to lose the reporting I have now and also don't really want to have 2 accounts and have a smaller account that is back to earning 4% or so from a few sales when I have bought the total up to a higher level.
Just when I am FINALLY beginning to see an upturn in daily earnings with the HP ad program, they are going to do another change-up??!! It's taken me nearly 2 years to get to where I am, earnings-wise, and even so, that is to say, I have yet to reach a single payout threshhold!
But, I don't think it matters one whit to me, one way or the other, as I have yet to make ("sell") a single thing via Amazon links...PLUS...anything I might have sold...I lost ground during their dump of CA affiliates...so I've only just gotten my Amazon capsules back up...so we'll see.
HOWever, I am NOT INTERESTED in the least in writing product-oriented sales hubs (articles). That is NOT why I joined Hub Pages. I saw it as an online magazine, (which HP itself has stated and implied in various places on the site). As such, I try to write a diversity of general-interest and educational articles.
A "magazine" that only has sales-pitch articles is not a magazine--it's an advertising circular. Guess what I do with advertising circulars? Right--they go into the recycle bin, unread, and I don't read them online, either.
I don't and won't write bogus "articles" that are only thinly disguised ad copy. My Amazon links are, for the most part, only books, for "further reading" on the topic I've addressed. Only a couple of my hubs feature "related equipment," but again, they are there more as an adjunct to the topic, and the hub was not written for the purpose of selling the items. If someone buys something, great..if not, oh well...again, that's not my purpose in writing here.
I guess what I'm saying is, I didn't start out here to earn money by ads, but along the path, decided if it was possible, then a little extra pocket change might help. Do I sound conflicted and contrary, arguing both sides? In a way, I am. I'd like to earn something, but not by compromising my principles. Besides..I'm a Pisces...it's my nature to second-guess myself!
This makes me nervous...and I'm not thrilled in the least with the prospect of leaving and starting all over again at some new, untested site. I simply don't have the time or the energy anymore.
.... 'A "magazine" that only has sales-pitch articles is not a magazine--it's an advertising circular. Guess what I do with advertising circulars? Right--they go into the recycle bin, unread, and I don't read them online, either.'
If you can only write Amazon orientated pages at the level of sales-pitch ad circulars you are well advised to avoid writing them.
You missed my point. I said nothing about my capabilities.. I am more than capable of writing product-oriented articles well above the ordinary 'sales pitch.' I simply said I choose not to, because I did not come here to write product-promotional pieces, but rather informative and educational ones.
There are other options, dzy. I wrote a hub on a style of oil painting aimed at beginners, emphasizing that everyone can learn to enjoy painting and showing some of my own work. Amazon capsules have kits and supplies for that particular style of painting. Fun to write, nice comments and has produced quite a few sales.
It doesn't have to be a straight sales hub to get sales. Produce reviews can produce sales; if you have experience with a product you like (a new TV maybe) it can work. Particularly unusual or little known products can move: I push a voltage tester you just wave near a wire to see if the power is on. A great safety item, cheap and it fits will with hubs on electrical repair. I've sold a bunch of them.
@DzyMsLizzy - I've never written a sales hub and probably never will. My earnings have skyrocketed since Panda, and I generally only write about things that interest me. I'm aware of SEO, but don't spend hours analyzing it.
I urge others to write about what they know and care about. Do what you love and the money will follow. If you like to write ads, more power to you. If you'd rather write feature-type articles, stick to it and don't change your writing style to fit the latest and greatest money generating venue.
I don't know if I can totally agree with this. I hate writing sales hubs, but have done a few anyway. In the process I've learned to to put just a little sales effort into feature articles and have begun to earn from those Amazon capsules.
It doesn't rival HPads yet, and probably never will, but it's another $50 to $100 per month and growing. It's been worth the effort, and the upcoming change should increase it another 30% or so.
I put as much effort into my Amazon orientated pages as any other. They get the same kind of read times so they obviously meet a need.
I'm quick to delete any page that does not deliver for the reader, whether it is commercial, educational or simply written for egotistical reasons.
Is your Halloween Costume for dogs not a sales hub?
What if I do not want Amazon as part of HP Ads and use it as I am using it now? I use my Amazon affiliate ID on my other sites too which makes me highly uncomfortable about this development because I would not reach payout every month without HubPages.
Apart from that Many Indian Hubbers already have problem with Payment through paypal. Unfortunately I have a limited Paypal Account where I can withdraw monthly only $500 through bank and $1000 through cheque as I do not use Credit Cards which is the only way to verify the Account. Also all payments above $500 are now reversed to the sender by paypal. So I would prefer receiving Amazon Payments directly as it is now by cheque from them and not as part of HP Ad Program.
Is there any chance that HubPages would offer us alternate payment methods?
The limit has been revised upwards to $3000.
https://www.thepaypalblog.com/2011/10/g … -in-india/
Judging on how the Hpads system has worked out - yes it's a choice. However like many I feel forced to take on Hpads due to the new ad layout. Coercion isn't quite the same as free will.
I'm also unhappy about the fact that HP are taking on Amazon sales right before the Christmas sales rush.
Another aspect worth pointing out when using HP's system is PayPal. When I use adsense I don't lose out to the conversion. I earn 'x', I receive 'x'. With paypal I am hit twice - by the dollar to pound conversion and then the fee that Paypal takes.
I wasn't judging it on the way HPads turned out, I was judging on the way that the eBay changes turned out, with those who were already using ePN forced to use the Hubpages version of the program. There was no option for people to stick with the former system and some people reported significant drops in the amount that they were paid per click.
Not aware of any Paypal fees though, I don't pay for withdrawals, they are free to a verified bank account? The currency conversion takes a big slice though, very poor exchange rate, but the withdrawal itself is free?
I definitely see the potential benefits of this system re the higher percentage payout. I have one major, potentially insurmountable concern, however, which has been touched upon slightly in previous answers.
Will Hubbers continue to be paid the revenue accrued from sales which are achieved by Internet users merely entering the Amazon site through one of their links? By this, I mean that if - for example - someone clicks on one of my links to Amazon for a book but ends up buying a widescreen TV instead of that book, will I continue to earn the revenue on that widescreen TV?
The reason why this is essentially the Amazon be all and end all for me is that I have never, ever secured a sale from anything I have advertised on any of my Hubs or private blogs. In four and a half years as an Amazon associate around the Web, my conversion rate at in that respect stands firmly at 0.00%. Despite that, I make Amazon payout threshold 9 months out of every 10, by selling products totally unrelated to the ones I advertise. Frequently, I earn high value commissions from products (as seen in my Associate stats) when I don't even know what they are! What I don't know at the moment is what percentage of my revenue comes from Hubs and what percentage from private blogs. I know there is probably a way I could identify that on Amazon but that's overly technical for me...
On the other side of the coin - a point which has also been mentioned briefly above - I see a huge benefit from this system to non-US Hubbers. Currently, non-US Hubbers can only be paid by Amazon.com by cheque (check), in US Dollars. When I receive my cheque, my bank charges me an immediate, flat-rate £9 (circa $14) to convert it to Pounds Sterling. That is not the end of the matter. At the end of the following month, I am then charged a further £6 for a non-automated credit to my account. That means that I lose circa $23 off the value of every cheque I receive in bank fees. Having my Hub revenue from Amazon paid by PayPal would almost certainly reduce the percentage of the Amazon income I receive by cheque, the frequency of the cheques and thus, indirectly, my bank charges.
I am delighted with the Hub Pages ads and have used them consistently since I first signed up. I think, however - perhaps pending further information - I may consider a month of one and a month of the other (post Christmas, obviously) of Amazon provided in this way. Just my thinking at the moment.
I set my Amazon threshold to $1000, meaning the lowest amount that I can receive by cheque is $1000. I then pay around $15 to cash that cheque, with no additional end of month fee. That is a UK bank account.
My bank then negotiates the cheque, usually managing to exchange for a rate which isn't too far away from the current market rate, as per XE currency converter.
Paypal on the other hand will require you to convert from $ to £ before withdrawing, Hubpages will not allow you to set a payment threshold. The exchange rates on Paypal are terrible, do you realise how much they make from you?
Often you will lose 4% against the exchange rate. The cheque costs me 1.5% of $1000 to cash, Paypal costs me about 3.5% to 4% to exchange from $ into £1.
Often my cheques end up at $1200 or $1500, so that 1.5% falls further, to 1.25% or 1%. Paypal will not save you any money, because you are not giving any thought to the way that Paypal makes its money, at least your bank is being transparent.
The $15 that you pay your bank (if your not happy with the other payment then change banks) represents the cost of them negotiating the value of your cheque with the American bank written on you check (normally Wells Fargo), it is in your banks interest to get you a decent exchange rate. Paypal will simply give you a poor exchange rate with no negotiation, and on an amount of $1000 or more, it will end up costing you much more than $15, more like $35-$40.
@ xmasdecorations - I wasn't responding to anything you'd written previously. I came back to the thread because I had a couple of other things on my mind about the HP net being thrown around Amazon.
As much as I have an emotional attachment to HP, I'm not stupid either. No business operates with the users as their number one priority. A sound business venture thinks (instead) 'how can I generate the most profit out of my users/clients/customers'.
That said - it also pays HP to keep as many hubbers interested as possible, as no hubbers = no hubs = no income.
I used to work with kids in care. Whilst I don't deny that their needs were catered for, that they were well looked after, the company that I worked for viewed each and every child as money in the bank. They still do. The kids were/are a commodity. Keep the kids happy, that keeps their local authorities happy, that then results in confidence between company & client = long term profit.
Keeping the kids well looked after was just smoke and mirrors for the companies #1 priority.
As usual, I'll just have to see how this pans out as my earnings aren't great with Amazon here anyway.....
I don't mind signing up to the amazon hubpage affiliate thing as it would benefit me getting paid through paypal instead of cheque. Looking forward to it. But it depends on your personal choice.
Like my fellow hubbers say : - let it be optional.
Right now, I am not unclear on how it works. Am I sharing revenue with others? Is it a pay per click deal? I don't really want to share my sales with someone else, to be honest. With a lot of my Amazon traffic coming from high cost items, I don't think my, say, 2 sales that earn me 40 dollars are worth the same as someone who sells 100 ten cent pencil eraser heads.
Using that example the change would benefit you.
For instance the two high value items would get you the lowest tier percentage.
Combined with the guy who sells 100 pencil erasers that will bump you up to the 6.5%/7% range. Wit all the hubbers combined it would hit the 8.5% commission, so you would infact be getting double the commission on your high value products.
My main concerns are loss of reporting and whether or not they are goign to change how the rev share currently works.
I've read everybody's concerns and appreciate every concern.
What concerns me is that there has been no official answer up till now.
It looks to me as if HP have just negotiated themselves what could be the best revenue sharing site on the web.
This will encourage in every Tom, Dick and Harry to come here and write. There are enough filters in place to keep out the spammers and also people whose command of the English language leaves a lot to be desired.
It will be great for ordinary people who haven't a clue about SEO or how to write web content.
The new format would have been fantastic for me, if it had been in place two years ago when I first found Hubpages, and was in need of revenue.
Now that I have learnt a bit, I am not so sure this new format will suit me.
The lack of reporting, if there is indeed to be a lack of reporting, is a serious drawback for those of us who have either learnt the game, or learnt a bit about the game.
New users might never learn, but they might still make themselves quite a lot of money, fairly easily.
For the future, I have no doubt HP have just ensured their future success.
For the rest of us? Who knows?
You make some good points, and I think what people need to realize is that HP is a business and needs to start making a profit to sustain itself. If it doesn't it's likely to be sold to some large company and that's where the problems start.
Look at eHow - bought by demand media - basically got rid of most of the writers & Associated Content - sold to Yahoo - suddenly all the top 'featured' writers had to re-apply and many got turned down.
HP are trying to improve the overall business model - and that's about the most important thing they can do to improve their future and ultimately the writer's future.
Does it change things for some writers? - sure - some will earn less, but some will earn more - HP cannot be concerned with individuals when it comes down to a business plan, they have to look at the 'whole' - that's simple business for you, nothing more nothing less.
At the end of the day, each one of us can leave Hubpages and create our own websites and earn 100% of the revenue...
Now as for communications, now that's a different matter entirely!
Good points from both Simey and Izzy. HP is indeed a business that must remain viable to maintain the writing site we all use.
I'm not sure how this change will benefit HP directly (they have to be top tier every month) but it might draw in more writers. Unfortunately, it would likely be writers that we don't need; those that will fill a subdomain with quick, easy sales hubs nearly devoid of informational value. That might not hurt other subdomains, or it might with thousands suddenly appearing. Hp's problem, but we could all pay the price.
Those that are adept at spamming or writing empty sales hubs might well be attracted to HP, but without a detailed earnings program in place, they are really not going to know which of their hubs are successful and which aren't.
They might have a rough idea in terms of traffic, but I am sure we have all had that low trafficked hub that brought in a lot of earnings.
So HP staff will be directing hubbers how to write successful sales hubs, that'll be in the learning centre, with an emphasis on white hat techniques I'm sure.
No matter how it is done, HP is quite likely to attract thousands if not millions of new hubbers.
Win/win for them I would say.
Not so sure about us...!
Bad enough having HPads with no idea of which hub(s) are generating the clicks or the interest, but if Amazon goes the same way, the writers will be much worse off educationally, as without knowing which products are selling, it is almost impossible to target products.
I'll give it a shot before making judgement, but I'm making way less money each day/week with the new hpad setup than I was with just adsense as my primary source...even before the plunge I'm in now. That said, I'm holding off on making any switches back to adsense only to see what happens.
I didn't have an ebay account before, so I suspect that if I ever get around to adding ebay capsules, it will make up at least some of the difference.
I'm not a heavy hitter on Amazon, so I can see where this would be beneficial to someone like me. I'm sure those that rely on their reports from Amazon, if they don't get the details they get now, will feel as if they're doing it blindly after the switch.
I definitely want to know whether existing Amazon Associates will still be allowed to use and get credit for sales using their own associates codes on Hubpages.
Amazon Associates are trying to build up our total number of sales each month to achieve a higher volume bonus. Maybe we're shooting for 30. Maybe it's 110. Maybe you're one of the lucky few who can crack the 320 threshold. Whichever it is, if Hubpages credits all Amazon sales on Hubs to its own associates codes instead, and it then pays us the commission for some of those sales, we've lost something in the exchange. Those sales won't count towards our own volume bonus, and that will impact the commissions we make on our own blogs and other platforms.
Whereas if we published exactly the same content on a site that lets us use our own associates codes, it counts towards our volume bonus.
Not enough info thus far. Waiting for someone with the ability to answer all of the above concerns. Cookies?
Forgive my repetition if this has already been asked but what happens to the money that is currently in our Amazon accounts at the time of the switch?
I would imagine this would simply remain in your Amazon Account and would not be effected. When you ultimately hit payout in your own right (separate from HP by then) you would receive your earnings (this is assuming you also use Amazon on other sites). No idea what happens if you 100% rely on HP and don't use your Amazon code elsewhere too.
Great! now I need to write a bit more to gain the benefits of this thingy!
Well, it's been 24 hours since Paul Edmonson was asked some excellent, relevant questions by Lily rose, thisisoli, and others.
Come on Paul. they shouldn't be too hard to answer.
Let me predict the answer to one of them for you, just to show you how it's done.
"The Amazon program will be compulsory".
That wasn't so hard now, was it?
Now. How about you having a go?
I agree Eric - 5 pages of comments and questions later the only staff person to be seen on this thread is a developer dealing with a purely technical question re reporting.
Not one of the big questions have been addressed by staff - if you don't want questions why the heck did you ask for them - why not just announce the change and be done with this pretence of actually caring about what any of your content partners think
Paul E. says that a FAQ will be put together from the list of questions posted in this thread. The way I read it, the thread's purpose is to list questions and concerns we would like answered.
Yes, and given the level and type of concerns don't you think it would be good practice to address them immediately they are raised, and not at some indeterminate, future time?
People have been stuffed around by hp multiple times, in most cases for no reason.
They would like this information so that they can make decisions about how to manage their activities during very busy pre Christmas period that we are now in.
Having their Amazon sales data, keywords, and all stats visible to HP staff (who also write hubs) may be a bit of a concern to many people - don't you think ??
So I'll also ask the question which addresses the elephant in the room:
"What internal audit provisions and safeguards exist at Hub Pages to prevent Hub Pages staff from using the data obtained about members accounts for their own purposes? "
All of these experiences are incidental and anecdotal--- so is mine.
My HP ads have jumped abut 300% in (each of) the past 7 days from the past averages -- my adsense and others have drooped.
If HP is working I'm glad to see it, both for HP and for myself.
I do not backlink, market, or do any elaborate strategies-- I was in it initially to see some exposure, but now am surprised and happy to see the incoming dollars.
Everyone has a different experience and a different expectation. Mine combined to make my current experience very pleasant
Your HPads have tripled every day for a week??!! That's up by a factor of 2187 times! I want your account.
Somehow I think I'm misreading something...
Think she means that her earnings tripled and have since been maintained at that level in the days that followed! I would assume, anyway.
I hope so - she'll be taking more than the whole of HP otherwise!
Correct. I'm not that good at math.
And yes, my adsense has dropped. My earnings are still modest, but with HP I am now earning more per day than I ever was before with Adsense, Amazon and HP combined.
Yes but your Hubpages AdSense earnings have dropped in correlation with your increase in HubAd earnings, that is an internal correlation, and one that is easily explained by the fact that there are now 5 hubad units and 1 adsense ad unit on each page of content.
This change, to the way that Amazon is done, could potentially decrease a contributors off-site Amazon earnings. HubAd does not have the ability to decrease your off-site AdSense earnings, that is the key difference.
All that most people are asking is for the ability to opt-out of the new system if they so wish, just like they can on the HubAd program. The likelihood is that most hubbers will opt-in to the system, but webmasters will not.
The apparent benefit to this system is that people will receive 8.5% commission for their non-capped HP Amazon sales. That's all positive, just so long as it doesn't push you down a tier on your actual Amazon associates account.
If a webmaster currently reaches the 8% tier on Amazon Associates, with a typical month bringing 500 sales from their own sites and 150 sales via Hubpages, the result of this change will be 500 items being pushed down to 7.5% and 150 items being pushed up to 8.5%.
Clearly this will effect few people, but it will effect SOME people, in this hypothetical example they will see commission decline on 500 items and increase on 150 items. This certainly wouldn't make them more money, it would lose them a lot of money. It may only effect a few people, but it will effect them significantly.
The majority of people on HP probably sell the vast majority of their items through Hubpages, and for them this system is probably fantastic. But if all it takes is the ability to opt-out to allow people to maximize their own revenues as per their individual circumstances, then I can't see the problem in permitting this, can you?
I would hazard a guess that if Hubpages automatically put everybody onto the new system but allowed them to go and opt out manually, perhaps only 5% would opt-out, if that. Those who opt-in will lose nothing by those people opting-out.
Being forced to lose revenue isn't acceptable, not when it is easily avoidable.
I agree - this makes just too much sense. The only fly in the ointment would be if the agreement with Amazon did not permit it for some reason.
There has to be an agreement there - otherwise Amazon could well simply shut off anything to HP as it's going to cost them considerably.
Thanks for putting the questions forward. We try and anticipate the concerns, but it really helps to hear from all of you.
We are working on a FAQ that will address the questions. It's our mission to make HubPages the most rewarding place to publish. The community is stronger together when it comes to getting things like an eBay agreement, the ability to share custom adsense, and now the agreement with Amazon.
HubPages has had a non standard agreement with Amazon that we are tweaking once again so it won't be until early November at the soonest that people will be able to get going. While we expect this opportunity to be in the communities best interest, we have a plan that doesn't require changes before the end of the year. The FAQ will be out shortly with more details.
I think many people would love a period of stability (I certainly would) so to hear 'doesn't require changes before the end of the year' is certainly something I am grateful for.
I think this "can" be a great change. By the word "can" it means "can" be done right or "can" be done wrong. This is what I would consider being right:
-All hubbers get 8.5-15% of each sale made (overall item tier)
-The individual code of Amazon still counts the clicks, sales, etc for tracking
-Other HPads can be on or off, not making a difference to our hub layouts that are selling on amazon.
-Hubpages pays a monthly income of sales by paypal.
-Hubpages removes all item sale tracking ability we have now.
-Hubpages keeps a % of all overall sales and hides it from us.
-Hubpages forces their click/impression program and not let us earn from google+amazon alone.
Like I said, it "can" be a good thing. The only way I can see this implemented correctly is for Hubpages to make a contract with Amazon that creates normal trackers into super trackers. Example:
Current Tracker(fake): wwwhubpage082-20
The tracker is: wwwhubpage082
The ending Amazon location code is: -20 (united states)
If the code could work THE SAME WAY IT IS NOW with another - number then that would be AWESOME. Example:
192hub-wwwhubpage082-20 <--new SUPER tracker that increases our % from the low scalable to max 8.5-15% WHILE it creates the SAME EXACT reports in AmazonAssoicates.com and we are PAID by AmazonAssoicates.com.
Sadly, I dont see this working because I would just take my higher supertracker and use it on other sites where I put amazon capsules etc. If you can make it work like this though then I am sure no one will object the changes. The only way I can see this working is if amazon makes the cookie store that the referral link is hubpages.com so the supertracker only applies to ---.hubpages.com domains.
Maybe it's low blood sugar (or something), but I have the distinct feeling I could have missed stuff in this whole thread. Anyway, if this has already been asked (or if the answer is among something I've missed), please overlook that I'm asking.
- My first question: How/whether the Amazon change will affect people who are Ad Sense only (and who don't use HP ads).
I haven't done a whole lot with Amazon (a little, but not much). My plan has always been to increase the Amazon efforts, but I keep not getting around to it. Still, I use it and occasionally earn from it.
If I don't ever switch back on HP ads, will the Amazon stuff stay the same for me; or will I have to switch on HP ads to use Amazon?
- Second question: Will HP be adding any Amazon ads of their own, whether or not people put Amazon ads on their Hubs?
-Third question: In the case of someone like me (good earnings from Ad Sense alone, only minor Amazon earnings/efforts) I'd essentially feel compelled to forget about Amazon altogether if I stay with Ad Sense Only (because using Amazon would have to involve using HP ads, and doing so, I think, would result in a decrease in earnings for me from Ad Sense (and for now, I'm not under the impression that I'd do equal or better with an Ad Sense/HP Ads combination); and unless/until I have the time and mental energy to put more effort into Amazon I don't really see increase in Amazon as being enough to offset what I may lose by turning on HP ads).
I have the same questions and I've read through the thread and can't find the answer (perhaps there isn't one). I had NO interest in turning on HP Ads and still don't so does this mean I am not affected by this? I will NOT turn HP Ads on simply to use Amazon. A little clarification would be appreciated so I know whether to start moving stuff now.
Sorry, I try not to be ignorant or doubetful but it is a little frustrating. One of the reasons I liked HubPages is that it did NOT use a Squidoo-esque model. Even if they never switch to the weird popularity contest system, I'm still unsettled by the gradual transition of all of our affiliates being doled out through HP instead of from the source.
People seem happy enough with the eBay, minus the reporting functionality so I want to give HP the benefit of the doubt. But this Amazon change is very ill defined.
We know that HP is going to bundle them all into one payment so they can take advantage of a higher commission rate. This is great, but it does not say what we actually earn from our sales. Do we get the full value 60% of the time? Do we split all clicks 60% with HP? Do we even earn based off our sales or does HP convert it into some PPC model? It is impossible to have an opinion.
We also know it is changing in November, which is terrifying. Completely changing the system in the weeks before the biggest earnings days of the year is really concerning. I really, really, really feel this should wait until January.
Of some concern to me SPECIFICALLY is the fact that it is going to change the productivity of my Amazon account. Previously, with all of my sale sources ending up in one account, that meant they all benefited from increased commissions from higher sales. When HP sales are taken out, it will be much harder to get to 6.5%+, especially during off months.
Of course, we don't really know anything. At all. Again. I like HP and appreciate their platform, but this is the second time they have announced a mandatory major change to the revenue models without providing any information. If you can't have a very basic FAQ ready at the time of the announcement, I think you would be doing my heart a favor by holding off for a few days until you have it ready.
It's sort of nice that we are all back to pursuing our own narrow interests in such a fractious way- now that Hubpages looks as if it has survived. Just like one big, ferocious family.
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