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I have read both Mark Knowles and Atomswifey being owed an apology, jeeez this is a Forum. I always thought a Forum was a place for public debate, if you don't want anyones views stay off the Forums.
Same applies to a Hub, once you post something on the internet you leave yourself open to both good and bad comments. Sorry but the internet is like life and I think some people think it should be Disneyland, it's not and if you don't like that well just don't bother posting.
I personally blame the Hubstaff for imposing bans over silly things, this is the real world, not Disney World. ! I sometimes wonder if half you people venture out the front door !
Silly things? Blame? Silly things attracts silly people. Rules and laws are essential for community living. And where is this apology thing coming from? By now Mark knowles must have realised his status on Hubpages. If he does not come back after all these reaction, then.....
Then.... WHAT? To the best of my knowledge Mark apologised to Atomshubby. I really don't think any 'Junior' Hubbers should assume that they are best to judge 'Senior' Hubbers in any instance. These guys and gals helped build this site and laid the foundations for what it is today. Let's face it.. it's slipped in the last few months, because Fruitcakes, Spammers and Non Writers are able to post in a writer's forum.
If some jumped up 'junior' hubber thinks that trying to 'make their bones' with total disrespect towards more senior hubbers.... then.... Expect to get shot down for the effort.
In fact, on all my hubs I always approve both the negative and the positive. It really helps in making the hub better and, in a way, me.
I appreciate debate and I love doing it. Opinions, unfortunately, are many time conclusions, and I find that is sad.
Opinions should not be conclusions, but they should be a means to an ever changing end.
I believe that once we have found truth it doesn't mean we have completed our search. Knowledge can be added upon and truth can be clarified. The phrase 'I know' should be preceded by 'so far', as well as continued investigation of all evidence.
When I first came on.. to this place, it was a breeze. People all over the Globe being real and sayin it like it was. Well their version anyway. As ya can see havent been here for a while, never wrote a bloody Hub, half wrote them, but decided that most would be criticised. I noticed that the Forums that had been a little bit wild and well kewl, were suddenly full of rules, so gave them away as well. Well today back to have a see out and, it is still the same. Debate is Debate as ya say, How the Hell can ya debate, if half your mind is on the blasted TOS and the other bit on being nice to people or debating in a nice sorta way. Ya right ya argue debate in real life with no rulz so How come on the Internet, where anything goes are all these ninnies runnin around saying No to this and No to that. Probley the biggest Power trip most of them would ever get. I say get a life, and I would maybe write a Hub.
The ban is on personal attacks. Which shouldn't be an issue because we're all adults. If someone is immature enough to name call they should be banned. You're right this is "the real world" and in the real world do you call a perfect stranger a curse word? Nope.
But if you 'express' the exact same sentiments in passive-aggressive comments that are so ridiculously thinly veiled they could be an SNL skit it's ok. You can then boast of 'forcing' hubpages to do your bidding while being as petty and spiteful as you like.
It has to do with the level of sensitivity of the person being offended. If it was an SNL skit type comment meant to be funny but the person got offended, it doesn't matter the intention it was still a personal attack. The point of the banning is to protect the people who have been attacked while teaching a lesson to those who have done the attacking. You can't be mad at being banned if you did something that wasn't allowed, regardless of your intention. It'll make you be a little more careful next time.
Um, at the risk of being called anti-Disney, may I point out that the behavior being described:
"It sure ain't Disney World, too many sensitive people attacking others but can't stand it when it happens to them!"
is actually quite Disney-esque. Think of every Disney villian you've ever seen. May not appear sensitive on the outside but bullying behavior covers up intense personal insecurity. Case in point, the evil queen in Snow White "Mirror, mirror on the wall, who's the fairest one of all?" (can we say, poor self-esteem?) Look at the evil stepmother and stepsisters in Cinderella. Man, they can dish it out, but in the end they cannot take it, can they?
So really, this kind of attack/retreat/sensitivity/rebuff/attack is kinda universal...
Yes one can be too thin skinned (I'm not one of them). There will always be people like that. But you learn just to not deal with those people. Its not even worth having a conversation with them. And it isn't hard to avoid people here, I've done it (the ones who have called me names ). There are the bullies, then there are the tattle tales. Most of us are in between. I talk to those who are in between
Disney Land is purportedly "the happiest place on earth." I think the religion forum rivals it, based on volume of blood rush and exhilaration. (And is perhaps as real-world as Disney Land.) I think responding in such blood-pumping ways can be a really weird happiness for some who don't know how to get themselves out of there. It is addicting, if you like to philosophize.
All that being said, there's a lot of middle school mentality and ego going on by way of comments and retorts. But it is what it is. It won't go away until we as individuals are ready to respond differently than we have. The change has to occur from the inside, not by forcing rules and policies from the outside.
And, yes, there are those who enjoy argument for the sake of argument. It's certainly not all bad. Challenging viewpoints is what makes us stretch and grow in many cases. But causing damage shouldn't be the intent.
Thanks, love! I like your points. You are thinking much further beyond adolescent mentality, as are so many others here. On the whole, I think we have a great community. We just forget that we are adults at times. LOL
You know what else? Compelling someone to apologize is like compelling someone to recant. They can't possibly be sincere, under compulsion, so it's a waste of time. And not Disneyland, but grade school.
Other than that thing with the Forums which put the Hub People Administration folks at a loss, I'm sure, for what to do? Things were getting a little too hostile, a little too personal, a little too far out of hand...a lot of people complained and were getting uncomfortable at the tone doncha see? What else could the Hub People Administrators do?
So they tried, they did their best, and I guess it all worked out ok. I'm more comfortable now visiting forums (like this one), but then, I supppose the point of view which says if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen, is valid, too.
i am just wondering if we are getting anywhere, or are we just going round and round in circles..... and do you think some people just need to argue about something, anything would do...... i have no idea myself, but when you read these threads from start to finish, you could almost lose respect for people as really and truly a lot of it does not really matter, and it must be a waste of people's time and energy...
I have "real life" friends, that truly need to argue. well, ok, its my sister in law. Her, and my husband, fight like you would not belive. They say the most awful things to each other. And because I love them both, and hate fighting, it usally makes me cry. Then they laugh and say "what are you so upset about?" They are not bothered, in the slightest. I have finaly learned after 15 years or so, that when they start, I leave the room. To me, forums aer simalar. Once, I said some things that were out of character for me, things I did not truly mean, and I felt bad about it. So I apologized. since then, Ive tried to stay out of the religious forum. Wether or not anyone needs to apologize for anything else, is none of my business.
Yes Brenda some people do just want to argue for the sake of it, however I tend to see (from reading these threads) that it tends to be more one of antagonising others based on religious beliefs, until they bite back and do so from sheer frustration.
Take Non Writers out of a Writer's Forum and that will reduce the problem by 30%, although most of those parties are secondary entities.
Personally; I believe you treat people the way you wish to be treated yourself! But as INXS said "Sometimes you Kick - Sometimes you get Kicked!" I guess Mark's reply above is in his veiw a well deserved "KicK"
HA HA HA HA stir the pot!! It is all so funny and fake at times? isnt it? I mean...TURN YOUR DAMN COUMPUTER OFF!! Really, why get all worked up, you can just .....go outside? I do think I would feel bad if I hurt someone's feelings though. ONCE I got all mad, but it really wasnt AW's fault. I already felt bad, and took it out on her. SO, I apologized. Its wrong to blame someone else for your own bad mood. "that being said" I know this is online and all, I would never demand an apology from someone. I simply turn my comoputer off, or push delete...no biggy...
Yeah but that is ok and can be fun if it's good natured banter but when it get's personal as in religion or personal then that is different. Personally I think the Forums would be dead if we were all serious, I think that's why we were blessed with a sense of humor, well most of us !
who, me? young and angry? Maybe I misunderstood.... ummmm, I meant, instead of getting all mad when someone types something you dont like, take a walk. Fresh air and all. Im not mad in the slightest, nor so young. I was trying to say, I apologize, when I feel I have done somethign wrong.
paranoid much? I really think its me, cuz I said the thing about turning off the computer... type is so hard sometiems, becuase you cant see the body language and you dont know the other person, and you filter into what they said, your own life and what you think... but hten agian, maye it was you. Im not young.
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