Ads And Reader Satisfaction

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  1. chef-de-jour profile image96
    chef-de-jourposted 23 months ago

    Research has shown and common sense tells that for a reader to stay concentrated on a page of text, satisfaction counts more than anything. That is, reading text involves just more than information for the eyes - it's a whole emotive experience.

    Dissatisfaction is reflected in stats - time spent on page for example is probably the biggest indicator. If a reader is dissatisfied in today's surf-move-on mindset they're likely not to return. Logic says that viewng traffic for that page will steadily decline cos most readers have the same criteria when it comes to being dissatisfied. They don't like interrupted text.

    Ads on the same page as text interrupt the reading experience but don't necessarily lead to dissatisfaction if they're well placed. Badly placed ads lead to dissatisfaction and early exit.

    I recently went online searching for information and came across a page that had quite a few ads either side of continuous unbroken text. For me they were well placed. I could scroll down without further interruption to the text and I read the whole lot. It felt good.

    I then moved to an Owlcation article. Guess what? I got fed up after 30 seconds and left. I couldn't take the badly placed ads. I don't use adblocking.

    This is an ongoing issue. Eugene and other writers have long argued for change in page design/set-up, or review at least. They know more about techy things than I do. I just want better stats for HP and all writers - HP must want the same - and changing the way ads are displayed has to be a priority.

    1. bravewarrior profile image87
      bravewarriorposted 23 months agoin reply to this

      I agree. The ad placement on this format is disruptive, congested, and over-abundant. As you say, the read should be uninterrupted. Peripheral vision will zone in on ads that may be of interest, so keep them out of the direct line of vision. It's like putting a huge centerpiece on a dining table that obstructs view and disrupts conversation. That's just plain bad manners!

      1. chef-de-jour profile image96
        chef-de-jourposted 23 months agoin reply to this

        Yes yes yes. I'm convinced that viewing figures would soar if all niche site text was kept central on the page, with ads either side. The uninterrupted read should be given top priority.

        HP though don't seem to want to play ball in any capacity when it comes to revealing what their ads policy is. As a veteran contributor (to their wealth) I really don't want to know TOO much about what goes on in their editor's office but it'd be great to have a little bit of insider knowledge on ads - unlike Pope I think a little bit of learning would be a good thing, in no way dangerous - so why the heck not HP?

    2. SerenityHalo profile image95
      SerenityHaloposted 23 months agoin reply to this

      Another thing to note: when the same ad is repeated throughout. I think that looks really bad for articles. If I didn’t want to see giant hedge cutters the first time, why would I want to see it the tenth time?

      1. chef-de-jour profile image96
        chef-de-jourposted 23 months agoin reply to this

        Repeat ads are plain stupid, which reflects on the site as a whole. You're right.

  2. janshares profile image93
    jansharesposted 23 months ago

    Agreed, Andrew. I'm sure the HP/Maven staff and CEOs, being the experts, know all of this. What then is the strategy? As you said, this has been an on-going complaint for some time. Maybe it's the fact that ad blockers are available if readers want to use them? I don't know. But the statistics you present about reader satisfaction speaks for itself. And in the end, we lose.

    1. chef-de-jour profile image96
      chef-de-jourposted 23 months agoin reply to this

      Yes Jan, it's a challenging issue. Viewing figures and earnings are in decline for many established writers here on HP, so you'd think someone in the HP hierarchy might want to help improve things. Ad placement is an obvious starting point. I hope it's near the top of their to do job list.

      1. AliciaC profile image93
        AliciaCposted 23 months agoin reply to this

        Sorry, I don't think we should assume that the job is anywhere on the to do list.

        1. chef-de-jour profile image96
          chef-de-jourposted 23 months agoin reply to this

          You could be right Alicia. As a writer all I want to do is create useful articles for readers so that HP and I can benefit from high reader satisfaction.

          After reading the neat, clean article online recently it struck me just how easy it was to concentrate on the text, uninterrupted, with ads either side. The Owlcation article I then compared was a shambles - I couldn't take those busy annoying ads.

          Now, I'm trying to picture a business scenario at HP where several key people get together and review the figures for say the last 2.5 years - figures as in visits/impressions/earnings against number of ads and ad placement. When they see the overall drop-off (and bounce levels) they should at least be starting to ask questions - and taking the issue up with Maven/Arena people? If not, why not?

          I have no business brain, I'm not a techy, I'm just asking the question, again, because it needs to be out there. Why not experiment with a new ads regime? A fresh page layout, with central text unbroken and ads either side, will benefit both reader and company.

          Ads are going to be around online for some time to come so why not optimise?

          The announcement of five new editors recently for HP has to be applauded and I can hear them at work right now! But the pressing fundamentals of declining views and reader dissatisfaction won't go away until acknowledged and addressed.

          I've been here for over a decade. Survived the doom and gloom merchants, Google roller coaster, takeovers and alien invasions.I'll plough on with new articles because as a writer I still know I'm making a useful contribution. I enjoy creating articles, I like interaction with editors! But always lurking in the background like some fiendish gargoyle is this irksome thing related to the visitor and their reading experience.

  3. Jodah profile image92
    Jodahposted 23 months ago

    I have to agree with all points made. Text kept uninterrupted in the centre with ads either side, and no repeated ads throughout the article..that is the thing I dislike most. Poetry is especially affected when stanzas are sometimes broken by an ad. It all seems to be common sense..but does that even exist any more?

    1. chef-de-jour profile image96
      chef-de-jourposted 23 months agoin reply to this

      Good question. Perhaps common sense means something different nowadays, especially when applied to the online writing business! Just seems plain daft to not experiment with new page designs given the accepted decline in views over the last two years or so.

  4. Misbah786 profile image84
    Misbah786posted 23 months ago

    . . . And who knows how many regular readers use AdBlockers to read HP articles? But, just out of curiosity, here's a question: When readers use adblockers while reading our articles, does their visit count as an impression?

    . . . Second, I was reading an article by Mr. Glenn Stock the other day in which he said that he believes ads have an impact on GA bounce rates. I agree with him.

    Remember about two weeks ago when we were having issues with ads not appearing anywhere other than the US? Eugene posted a forum where we discussed the bounce rate at the time, and the bounce rate was actually higher when there were no ads showing up on our articles. I'm not sure how ads can help visitors stay on the page, but they definitely help us in some way. Although I agree that ads between lines break up the motion and disturb the readers.

    Best wishes to all! smile

    1. chef-de-jour profile image96
      chef-de-jourposted 23 months agoin reply to this

      We're in a precarious position as online writers for HP. If we want to earn we need the expertise of the technical staff who design the pages to hopefully maximise the potential regarding ads placement. If they wish to continue in a job they need to ensure a steady input of quality writing. There's a mutually assured relationship ongoing - we all know the score.

      Over the years HP has done a great job in balancing earnings against quality. Many writers have made good money, deservingly so. In these tough times however, with viewing figures falling, there's a need to face up to reality when it comes to reader satisfaction.

      I'm now convinced that unbroken central text has to be the goal. Chaotic and annoying ads need to be disciplined! They've had the rule of the roost for long enough. It's time to put the reader first, again.

    2. bravewarrior profile image87
      bravewarriorposted 23 months agoin reply to this

      I've been of the opinion that high bounce rates are not good. A few HP authors disagreed with me. Here's an explanation of bounce rate as found in the GA Help area:

      https://support.google.com/analytics/an … 9409?hl=en

      Pay attention to the area that discusses how to lower your bounce rate. It specifically mentions ads that are not relevant to the site and more.

      1. Misbah786 profile image84
        Misbah786posted 23 months agoin reply to this

        Yes, it says to make sure your ads are relevant to the content of your website.

        But see this section as well: "Is a high bounce rate a bad thing?" The answer is that it depends. Yes, a high bounce rate is bad if your site's success is dependent on users viewing more than one page. For example, if your home page is the gateway to the rest of your site (e.g., news articles, product pages, your checkout process) and a high percentage of users are viewing only your home page, then you don’t want a high bounce rate.

        When you visit Hubpages' homepage (discover. hubpages), you will notice that there are relatively few ads (I can see only one ad on the homepage). Readers who reach us through organic searches are unlikely to click on another article in the suggested/related articles capsule... It's because, in my opinion, all of those articles are irrelevant to the content that a reader is reading. Why would they want to read those articles if they're seeking for something else? When seen in this light, a high bounce rate isn't an issue. smile

        1. bravewarrior profile image87
          bravewarriorposted 23 months agoin reply to this

          Most of my traffic is from organic searches, not from any of the niche site home pages, so a high bounce rate for me is not good.

  5. Brenda Arledge profile image80
    Brenda Arledgeposted 23 months ago

    I agree.   I've had many readers complain to me about the ads...saying they love to read my work, but these ads are problematic.

    I've tried messaging the team, but still the text is divided.

    Not good display for writers.

    1. chef-de-jour profile image96
      chef-de-jourposted 23 months agoin reply to this

      It took a random read of an article with uninterrupted text to reinforce the message - the reader is all important. If HP/Maven/Arena made the reader number 1 everything else would fall into place, including the ads.

      You did right messaging the team. I've done so in the past too. Perhaps we should all have a go - people power in action.

      1. eugbug profile image96
        eugbugposted 23 months agoin reply to this

        I guess Hubpages just have to toe the line and they're limited by TAG in what they can say. It's a shame they have to use the new template, the old one was fine and modification was easier. I heard my name mentioned here, so just dropped in to say hello from my vacation on sunny Paros!

        https://hubstatic.com/16030577_f1024.jpg

        1. Misbah786 profile image84
          Misbah786posted 23 months agoin reply to this

          big_smile cool

        2. chef-de-jour profile image96
          chef-de-jourposted 23 months agoin reply to this

          Oh yes, holiday time in ancient Greece, who wouldn't want to? Where philosophy and tragedy as we know it began. Tragedy, that strange word related to goats and singing....And you've time enough to spare for a comment, brilliant. Enjoy, Eugene!

          1. eugbug profile image96
            eugbugposted 23 months agoin reply to this

            Good too to see all my favourite Greek letters in person in the seat of civilization.

        3. SerenityHalo profile image95
          SerenityHaloposted 23 months agoin reply to this

          Looks like a gorgeous vacation spot!

          1. eugbug profile image96
            eugbugposted 23 months agoin reply to this

            Temp around 29 C at the moment and everything dried up as is typical of these countries in the far south of Europe. Scenery beautiful with really blue sea and beautiful flowers. I've posted some photos on my Twitter account.

            1. SerenityHalo profile image95
              SerenityHaloposted 23 months agoin reply to this

              I just took a quick peek at your Twitter. I've never seen anything like the Frankish Castle's structure. It looks like something meant for Doctor Who.

              I could do with a trip to Europe. I've only really had the chance to explore the UK, due to a couple of friends living there. I hope your journey goes well.

              1. eugbug profile image96
                eugbugposted 23 months agoin reply to this

                Thanks Andrea

  6. Solaras profile image96
    Solarasposted 23 months ago

    Clicking on my new article, which currently resides on Discover, the video never loaded, after a full minute.  No images loaded.  The title of the articles in the ads for other articles on the Internet loaded, but their images never loaded.  After a minute, I clicked the back button. The website refused that request.

    So I was stuck in the middle of the article with a video still not loaded (a circle was there to inform me it was trying to load a video). and slowly one of my images began to load, inch by inch on my computer screen.  I clicked the back button again, and this time it did comply with the request.

    Seriously, my computer is slow, but not like this on other sites.  The viewer feels imprisoned.  Dump the video if it just won't load until you have been on the page 2-3 minutes.

    1. eugbug profile image96
      eugbugposted 23 months agoin reply to this

      Loading is fast on my laptop, but extremely slow on a 5 year old phone. Ads and images take forever to load. Dumping the new TAG version websites would be a good idea because they seem to be a disaster.

    2. chef-de-jour profile image96
      chef-de-jourposted 23 months agoin reply to this

      I'm hearing this all the time from many writers like you Eugene who know much more than I do about page design and placements and so on. Either the HP&TAG people are just not aware or they have a contract running and cannot change things. In my dreams the HP team is about to announce a major regime change. Surely somewhere down the line they're going to have to act if they want to keep the ship afloat?

      Above it all I'll continue to write new articles despite the repeated frustrations.

  7. Sue Adams profile image94
    Sue Adamsposted 23 months ago

    I turned on ad-blocker...
    https://hubstatic.com/16032783_f1024.jpg
    while reading one of my articles.
    https://hubstatic.com/16032783_f1024.jpg
    It appears that the same ad
    https://hubstatic.com/16032783_f1024.jpg
    placed by Google
    https://hubstatic.com/16032783_f1024.jpg
    bypasses ad-blocker. Not only that, the same stupid advert, completely unrelated to content appears no less than 5 times bang in the middle of the page interrupting my text.
    https://hubstatic.com/16032783_f1024.jpg
    I don't need to click on the ad to know that my IQ is high enough to tell me that this cannot be good reader satisfaction!

    1. chef-de-jour profile image96
      chef-de-jourposted 23 months agoin reply to this

      Help!!! Get me outa here, pronto.

      A neat illustration of the madness of the ads at this point in HP history. We need a campaign - to restore the text.

      We want uninterrupted text!
      When do we want it?
      NOW.

      1. chef-de-jour profile image96
        chef-de-jourposted 23 months agoin reply to this

        team@hubpages.com

      2. Jodah profile image92
        Jodahposted 23 months agoin reply to this

        +1000

      3. chef-de-jour profile image96
        chef-de-jourposted 23 months agoin reply to this

        I have invested a lot of time and effort over the years building up a body of work that still earns me (and HP) a useful sum each month. I thank HP for all their input but feel that of late they're missing out on potential earnings due to the awful ads regime. This to me is madness and doesn't make business sense. So...

        Could I suggest that we as individuals of the HP writing family email team@hubpages.com and raise the issue of ads and their placement?

        It takes two minutes to send an email. I wonder how many they'll receive?

        1. bravewarrior profile image87
          bravewarriorposted 23 months agoin reply to this

          Check out the link I provided above to Google Analytics explanation of bounce rate. One huge factor for high bounce rates is misplacement and over-saturation of ads that have nothing to do with the content.

    2. SerenityHalo profile image95
      SerenityHaloposted 23 months agoin reply to this

      It’s nightmare fuel, honestly. No one wants that kind of ad experience.

    3. Jodah profile image92
      Jodahposted 23 months agoin reply to this

      This is my biggest annoyance too. I can put up with a few ads, but not the same one repeated five times throughout an article…just ridiculous!

      1. Solaras profile image96
        Solarasposted 23 months agoin reply to this

        I had an advert for Diamond smoked almonds at Amazon appearing 6 times.

  8. TessSchlesinger profile image61
    TessSchlesingerposted 23 months ago

    I have removed all my articles, except two, from Hubpages. It embarrasses me to have my work look like it's published in a tabloid for nitwits.

    1. bravewarrior profile image87
      bravewarriorposted 23 months agoin reply to this

      +1!

    2. Gregory DeVictor profile image93
      Gregory DeVictorposted 23 months agoin reply to this

      Very, very well stated. Tess, you have summed up everything perfectly.

  9. Sue Adams profile image94
    Sue Adamsposted 23 months ago

    I just posted this email to team@hubpages.com:
    ______________________________________
    A few years ago, I used to earn 3digit monthly payments. Now I barely make $20 per month.
    My skill sets have not changed. The running of HP has changed. Staff don't listen to writers anymore.
    Please, please, react to this comment thread:
    https://hubpages.com/community/forum/35 … ost4248702

    Over the years, HubPages' mergers/growth has become a corporation that feeds the bosses and not the workers.
    You rely on hopeful newbies to stuff your sites with content. Veterans like me are leaving in drones.
    It just doesn't seem to be worth it anymore.

    Sorry
    Juliette Kando / user name: Sue Adams
    ________________________________

    Join the Ads Placement Revolution, email: team@hubpages.com

    1. Misbah786 profile image84
      Misbah786posted 23 months agoin reply to this

      I completely understand your frustration and anger. Regarding ads, I completely agree with you. I'm not sure whether HubPages staff will respond to your email or this thread, or if they will respond to anything at all. With all due respect, I disagree with your assessment of "hopeful newbies." Veterans were once newcomers. As far as I know, no one came to this site as a well-established writer, but the site has provided many of us with a wonderful platform to fine-tune our skills. It is up to the individual to decide whether they want to leave or stay. If you're only here to make money, I believe the site may no longer serve your purpose; as you stated, it's no longer worth it. However, many hubbers here write for almost nothing in return and serve the site (including new and old hubbers)
      Perhaps this is why HP doesn't mind relying on newcomers as well. My comment here is not intended to cause chaos, but it is my honest opinion.

      The site is going through difficult times, but it has also shown you a golden period. There is no evidence to support your claim that they feed the bosses. If there is, I respectfully request that you prove your claim.

      I have no idea how many people will ever stand with me. But I'm being genuine. Yes, the spammers on the site are a pain, but newcomers who can write well are the future; they are people HP should trust and rely on. And believe me, HP does put new hubbers under extreme pressure, just like polishing a diamond requires extreme pressure for it to shine. The majority of my followers and those I follow are old-time hubbers, and every one of them has contributed to my success. smile

      Best Regards!

  10. Sue Adams profile image94
    Sue Adamsposted 23 months ago

    Italics = Misbah quotes

    … no one came to this site as a well-established writer.
    I was chief editor of NewDance magazine before Harper Collins published three of my hard-copy books. Like many others on this site, I am a professional writer.

    There is no evidence to support your claim that they feed the bosses. If there is … prove your claim
    Don’t be so naive Misbah, wake up! Companies must grow in order to make profits so they can sell out to larger companies who make profits so they, in turn, can sell out to even larger companies that make even more profits, etc, etc.

    https://hubstatic.com/16039673.jpg
    Millions of today’s workers have three jobs and cannot feed their families or pay their bills. Isn't that enough proof in today’s capitalistic pudding?

    … the site has provided many of us with a wonderful platform to fine-tune our skills… many hubbers here write for almost nothing in return and serve the site.
    Keyword here: serve. Slaves serve, workers earn money to survive.

    Regarding ads, I completely agree with you.
    In that case, please Misbah DO something about it. Add your voice to our cause by sending an email to: team@hubpages.com before the entire site goes under from lack of reader (and writers') satisfaction.

    1. Misbah786 profile image84
      Misbah786posted 23 months agoin reply to this

      Sue Adams, thank you so much for your response. With all due respect, I am not satisfied with your response. You have no sources to back up your claims that "they feed the bosses."...... Do you know how many members/writers there are on HubPages?

      You are simply expressing your thoughts and opinions; we can listen to them, but if we do not believe them, you cannot simply label another person as naive. You haven't said anything that leads me to believe your claims are true. smile

      Here’s a link: https://hubpageshelp.com/money/Learning … y-HubPages (please read this before running your campaign)

      Please keep in mind that HubPages is, first and foremost, a community for people who love to write, share information, and help others. Making a bit of extra money is a nice bonus, but it should not be your primary motivation. In other words, writing on HubPages works best as an enjoyable hobby and should not be mistaken for an alternative to employment or an income source that will fully support you.

      Have you ever read this before? I know someone here who still makes $200-300 per month, but those are exceptional cases.

      Before running these types of campaigns, you must back up your claims.
      Thank you & best wishes!

      1. EricDockett profile image96
        EricDockettposted 23 months agoin reply to this

        Misbah, in the time you have been here you have become an active and valuable member of this community. Your comments in this forum are helpful to newbies, and often illuminating for those of us who have been here a while.

        However, you weren't here during the times Juliette is referring to. You don't know what HubPages used to be. I'm not saying she is right or wrong, only that perhaps this is a time when you should listen to and consider what someone who might have a little more experience is saying.

        1. Misbah786 profile image84
          Misbah786posted 23 months agoin reply to this

          Thank you so much for your kind words, Eric. I appreciate it very much. Your comments in the forums are always interesting, informative and helpful. I've always valued your opinion. I just don't like it when newcomers to this site read such claims and believe them without further discussion or investigation. smile
          Blessings to you!

      2. theraggededge profile image96
        theraggededgeposted 23 months agoin reply to this

        There are many of us who earn more than that, Misbah. It's not exceptional.

        The Hubbers here, who are concerned about the excessive advertising bringing the site/s down are correct. HP's answer to falling traffic is to host more and more spammy advertisements. It's a downward spiral and it is not sustainable.

        And if we, the content producers/writers, don't do something about it, then this site will fail. The answer is to raise the quality of the experience for the readers... they should always be the first concern. And if the readers' experiences improve, then so will all our Google rankings.

        Back in the days when I earned around $900 - $1k per month, we carried fewer ads, yet impressions were high.

        1. Misbah786 profile image84
          Misbah786posted 23 months agoin reply to this

          Thank you for your input, Bev. I agree that many of you have witnessed HP's golden period, but things were different back then. Who would want their company to drown in the depths of the ocean? There was less competition back then, less digital age, but now the competition is high, and HP, I believe, is making an effort to improve. Yes, they should respond to the forum messages. I appreciate Matt Wells's continued participation in many threads, but it is not solely his responsibility. It's fine to ask for answers, but accusing them of feeding the bosses is not. ( this is my opinion) smile

          1. theraggededge profile image96
            theraggededgeposted 23 months agoin reply to this

            The problem is, Misbah, that the improvements aren't improvements; they are making our articles unreadable. Our articles are drowning in dross.

            There was plenty of competition around previously. We're only talking 2018/19 here big_smile Not exactly the birth of the Internet.

            And whoever said that HP is relying on 'hopeful newbies' to provide fresh content is also correct... because so many established hubbers have stopped writing because articles look so bad.

            As to 'feeding the bosses'... well, as earnings have fallen so drastically for us, it's a reasonable assumption to make. We writers are running to stand still. No wonder so many give up.

            I'm leaving my work here simply because it still makes me a few hundred dollars a month, but I prefer to put my effort elsewhere.



            https://hubstatic.com/16039959_f1024.jpg

            1. Misbah786 profile image84
              Misbah786posted 23 months agoin reply to this

              Thank you for sharing, Bev.

              I'm not sure if HP is truly relying on 'hopeful newbies,' but I am certain that they need new faces.

              Secondly, I believe it is up to the writers to decide whether or not to stay.

              Furthermore, in my opinion, if anyone truly wishes to leave, they must do so in a respectful manner. Many well-known hubbers have left HP, but not in this manner. But then everyone has their own style. I think I must not interfere in that. smile

              It is up to the writers whether or not they wish to write for the website. What good does it do anyone to criticize others (newcomers) for no reason? I believe that not all new writers are simply stuffing the site; many are writing very well. Please correct me if I am wrong smile

              1. AliciaC profile image93
                AliciaCposted 23 months agoin reply to this

                I understand why people are angry and are complaining, Misbah. The managers have apparently reduced the income percentage for writers with no announcement, which if this is the case is disgusting. I say “apparently” because they are ignoring all requests for clarification. In addition, they have so far ignored all of the comments about the distracting advertisements and ad placement on our articles that almost certainly make it difficult for people to read them.

                You say that anyone who wishes to leave should do so in a respectful manner. Rudeness is not acceptable, but criticism is. The staff have answered some questions posed by writers lately, but they have avoided answering any questions to do with income and the ads on our articles.

                1. Misbah786 profile image84
                  Misbah786posted 23 months agoin reply to this

                  I agree with you, Linda, and I genuinely appreciate your response. I have no issues with anyone or any response to this forum, other than this:

                  https://hubpages.com/forum/post/4249532

                  In my opinion, this isn't just criticism; it's an accusation that was later discovered to be an assumption when the person failed to back up their claims. . . I believe the comment is rude and disrespectful as well. I really can't understand what is the point of criticizing people they don't even know (newcomers) for no reason? I don't believe all of the newcomers are spamming the site.

                  I do understand their anger and frustration as I mentioned here in this comment:

                  https://hubpages.com/forum/post/4249539

                  Your and Eric's responses to my comment were both polite and friendly. I appreciate you both! smile

                  https://hubpages.com/forum/post/4249562


                  Blessings and Love to you as always! smile

              2. theraggededge profile image96
                theraggededgeposted 23 months agoin reply to this

                Yes, I will correct you. Over the last few years, there has been a tsunami of low-quality articles written by newcomers. Established writers wonder why such dross is permitted. No one is criticising individual newcomers; only the policy which allows inferior writing to flourish.

                Of course, all writing platforms need new faces. Yet they also need writers who can consistently publish quality articles that bring in traffic.

                HubPages seems hellbent on driving the second cohort away.

                And, yes, it's up to people to decide whether to stay or go. Why wouldn't it be so? Isn't that the same as every situation that doesn't involve slavery?

                Who among us hasn't left in a respectful manner? I haven't left; I've just stopped writing until the appearance of my articles improves.

                You seem overly focused on feelings and opinions instead of the actual facts. You also seem hellbent on missing the whole point of this thread, which is the appearance of the site to readers.

                People are stating valid criticisms. No one is disrespectful. If they had been, you can bet the thread would have been closed down by now.

                Here are the facts:

                1. Articles look horrible because they are drowned out by ads and videos.

                2. Traffic and earnings have dropped and HubPages has not stated clearly on what basis earnings are calculated.

                3. HubPages is not responding to writers' concerns.

                So, if you are going to disagree, then disagree with the facts. Criticising people's concerns is not a good look. Everyone has their own way of dealing with issues. It's not your job to tell people how to be respectful, especially those of us who have been here for a long time.

                You may 'believe' that Juliette's post was disrespectful. I'm telling you, factually, that it wasn't. She certainly doesn't need to provide evidence of what we can all see.

                1. Misbah786 profile image84
                  Misbah786posted 23 months agoin reply to this

                  I agree with the facts, and I see where you're coming from; when people say something, they will have to listen to something in return, if not always, then sometimes.

                  You said: It's not your job to tell people how to be respectful, especially those of us who have been here for a long time. 

                  Please don't be harsh because I was polite to you in my comments...

                  The site is as much mine as it is yours! Yes, I am not here to teach respect and have never taught it. Please do not link it to my previous response to you in another post. It can cause confusions. I already stated, everyone has their own unique style. I don't enjoy cross-talks, but I appreciate your response.

                  Let’s just end it on a good note: I would have liked it more if Juliette had been able to respond to this question herself. When people say "slave," it makes me giggle. When does HP ask the authors to be their slaves? I would not post any additional comments on this topic since I have yet to receive a proper response to my query; instead, I am receiving assumptions upon assumptions. I have never disputed with any of the three facts you stated. smile

                  Take care and enjoy!

                  1. Sue Adams profile image94
                    Sue Adamsposted 23 months agoin reply to this
            2. hclpd profile image92
              hclpdposted 23 months agoin reply to this

              Yep. I have been writing here for the better part of the last 7 years, but I can't continue any longer. While I love writing, it's best if I switch to something like Medium — a platform where my readers have a chance to go through my articles without incessant interruption.

              For one thing, Huboages no longer works as a portfolio for me, thanks to its antagonistic ad policies. With ads littered everywhere, not even your potential clients would want to go through the drivel.

  11. Sue Adams profile image94
    Sue Adamsposted 23 months ago
    1. Misbah786 profile image84
      Misbah786posted 23 months agoin reply to this

      Thank you for your response once again, Sue Adams. This is what OldRoses said to you about 8 months ago:

      Revenue is gross income.  The more important number which they don't mention is the profit after expenses.  So revenue of $142 million is meaningless if their expenses are more than that.  It is possible to have millions of dollars in revenue and not be profitable.

      https://hubpages.com/forum/post/4204614

      I found OldRoses’ statement to be valid and helpful smile

      The Arena Group combines powerful brands. HubPages is not the only thing they have to carry along the way.

      Your second link contains no information about when it was written.

      I believe HP has a bright future, but such campaigns can confuse new writers on this site. I'm aware of all of these details because I have some great HP friends who are old-time hubbers. I haven’t experienced that time of course but I'm aware of that Squidoo thing and all.….

  12. Sue Adams profile image94
    Sue Adamsposted 23 months ago

    Do you know the difference between "Net Worth" and "Revenue"?
    I give up!

    1. Misbah786 profile image84
      Misbah786posted 23 months agoin reply to this

      Of course I know.

      Net income is the bottom line on a business’s income statement. It is what is left of your revenue after you’ve covered your expenses.

      You missed that I said The Arena Group combines powerful brands. HubPages is not the only thing they have to carry along the way. They  aren’t generating all that income from HubPages, or are they?

      Plus your second link contains no information about when it was written.

  13. Solaras profile image96
    Solarasposted 23 months ago

    Hello - If they won't tell you what the revenue share formula is, you can bet there is a problem for the writers who are receiving an ever smaller piece of the revenue pie.

    I would welcome one of the newbies to show us where they found the terms of service they signed, since it is no longer available to the users on this platform.

    Once upon a time, HP paid for their expenses from their 40% of the revenue, which makes perfect sense.  We provide the material and they skim 40% to pay for their salaries.

    Now they pay unknown expense before the split, and have bragged to the media that they reduced the partner share to 34%.  WTF.

    I would also like to know if we get monies for all of the ads shown on our pages and links to paid content or if we are just getting a share on the ads for "Diamond Smoked Almonds" shown 5-7 times per page.

    For all the ads shown, our "Impressions" should be well above pageviews, yet my Impressions are usually half of the pageviews.  That makes no sense to me. If everyone who visited was backing out of the article, then Google would have trashed my articles years ago. 

    HP Please provide a link to the Terms of Service, Revenue Share Agreement.

    1. chef-de-jour profile image96
      chef-de-jourposted 23 months agoin reply to this

      Email team@hubpages.com with your valid concerns. As writers we should try and elicit a response.

      I'm more than convinced of the madness of interrupted text by annoying ads which from a business standpoint seems illogical. This is really frustrating because if there is a technical reason for so many repeated ads in ugly places, then HP please at least give us the basic info.

      We need clarity on revenue sharing. It's unacceptable to leave us out in the cold.

      1. Solaras profile image96
        Solarasposted 23 months agoin reply to this

        It is not something they are doing on Parade, The Street or Sports Illustrated. Those are flagship enterprises, that they take pride in.

        It appears that HP is just here for as long as it is here - which means until the last drop of revenue can be wrung from this site.

        Interrupting an article with a stack of RSS feed style articles to click bait, signals the end of the article - when in reality you are only 2/3 of the way through the article. 

        Somewhere on an older thread, a writer noted that HP stated we get none of that revenue for clicks on clickbait.

        Apparently the end goal of management is not for happy readers to get everything they were promised when they clicked on our article in the SERPs, instead we are the bait to their clickbait income.

  14. eugbug profile image96
    eugbugposted 23 months ago

    My mental image of Hubpages is that it's like the Marie Celeste, with just Matt in the engine room and remote controlled by TAG. I hope I'm wrong. It's a shame and unfair how we're treated as plebs with lack of information. Meanwhile I'm going back to enjoying the end of my holiday, writing from a hotel room on a stopover in a very hot Athens big_smile (Might write an article about my adventures)

    1. chef-de-jour profile image96
      chef-de-jourposted 23 months agoin reply to this

      Yes, one of your technical articles Eugene, with ancient Greek bias, would be very welcome....the stress testing on Ajax's body armour for example. Or the electric power generated by one of Zeus's thunderbolts.

      And when you've finished your article please email team@hubpages.com and voce concern about the blooming ads!!

      1. eugbug profile image96
        eugbugposted 23 months agoin reply to this

        lol

    2. Misbah786 profile image84
      Misbah786posted 23 months agoin reply to this

      Enjoy your holiday, Eugene smile

  15. Sue Adams profile image94
    Sue Adamsposted 23 months ago

    Solaras wrote:

    HP Please provide a link to the Terms of Service, Revenue Share Agreement.

    I googled it:
    https://hubpages.com/help/user-agreement-2019-10-02

    Good luck with understanding it and all its disclaimers.

    1. Misbah786 profile image84
      Misbah786posted 23 months agoin reply to this

      I was following Barbara’s thread. She was seeking clarification rather than blaming. There’s a difference! smile

    2. Solaras profile image96
      Solarasposted 23 months agoin reply to this

      Thanks for that - I have visited that link as well as the Wayback Machine and there is quite a difference in the verbiage.

      Current TOS: "Hubbers that participate in the HubPages Ad Program will earn from the Earning Page Views on the Hubs you create. Your Earning Page View share will be selected based on a 60% chance of generating earnings for the author. Your earnings will be based on a formula selected by HubPages, in its sole discretion, which formula HubPages may change at any time for Your account."

      Which actually makes no sense. A 60% chance of earning is not the same as earning 60% of the income.

      Edit: We should have a 100% chance of earning 60% of the revenue per article/hub.

      TOS (2015 pre-Maven) "Payment.
      As consideration for your participation in HubPages Earnings Program, You shall receive a payment related to the valid advertising and/or referral activity on Your Hubs (only on those same 60% of the Impressions where HubPages rotates Your third party affiliate IDs) from participating third-party advertisers and/or networks in the HubPages Earnings Program. For the avoidance of doubt, payments to You for Your participation in the HubPages Earnings Program will be made to you by HubPages and is distinct from any payments You may receive in relation to Your Hubs from any third-party pursuant to you linking of an affiliate ID or any other part of the Service. Your payment shall consist of Your Earned Balance. "Earned Balance" means Your net revenue share portion of those valid, earned, and collected (by HubPages) revenues (sourced specifically and only from those same 60% of the Impressions where HubPages rotates Your third party affiliate IDs) credited to your account that are generated solely from the HubPages Earnings Program-based advertising and/or referral activity on Your Hub (and not any other advertising and/or referral activity that may appear on Your Hub), minus any and all commissions, fees, bad debts, third-party deductions, payment processing costs, charge-backs to Your account, fraudulent amounts, and any other deductions that HubPages deems necessary with respect to the provision of the HubPages Earnings Program for Your Hub (such deductions to be determined in HubPages’ sole discretion). You acknowledge and agree that HubPages may change the revenue share with any third-party and/or You at any time, in HubPages’ sole discretion."

      In this instance, we earn all of the income 60% of the time, less any bad debts, fees fraud etc. We are not paying for any "expenses" - those belong to HP's side of the equation.

      Link to Wayback Machine below.

      https://web.archive.org/web/20150310011 … _agreement

      1. Solaras profile image96
        Solarasposted 23 months agoin reply to this

        Basically, they say they have a secret sauce formula, which they may change at any time, at their sole discretion. We are no longer entitled to 60% of the revenue generated by our pages.

        The formula may change weekly, or daily, depending on the needs of TAG.

        1. chef-de-jour profile image96
          chef-de-jourposted 23 months agoin reply to this

          That's about it.
          As a veteran writer here on HP I can accept that business models and revenue sharing might change when takeovers occur but it would be good to get back to basic communication regarding these changes. A simple message from HP would suffice. Cutting a writer's share of the revenue without upfront warning shows a poor business ethos.

          I've messaged Matt Wells in an attempt to get some positive response about the issue of ads placement.

      2. bravewarrior profile image87
        bravewarriorposted 23 months agoin reply to this

        HP life has become way too convoluted and is rife with complaints that aren't addressed. Why aren't they addressed? Because The Arena Group has HP hog-tied. Our wishes, complaints, demands, and sorrows fall on deaf ears when we voice them to the HP staff.

        It's now quite blatantly apparent that we have no say. Complain and email all you want. You're only wasting your time by blowing smoke to deaf ears.

        HP is on the bottom of Arena's totem pole. The more disgruntled HP writers become, the more they will leave in droves (which has been happening since the Maven days).

        Don't you (meaning all my fellow HP writers) see this is Arena's goal?

  16. Sue Adams profile image94
    Sue Adamsposted 23 months ago

    The site "Parade", which is also an Arena site, has a different ads policy. No interrupting ads in the middle of text, only sidebar ads. Here is an example of one of their articles:

    https://parade.com/1392900/emily-lauren … -blisters/

    Could we please have the same model for Hubpages and all its vertical sites?

    1. Solaras profile image96
      Solarasposted 23 months agoin reply to this

      + 1,000,000,000

    2. chef-de-jour profile image96
      chef-de-jourposted 23 months agoin reply to this

      Yes, it can be done! HP should try changing their ads placement policy - experiment for 6 months with clear, uninterrupted text.

      1. DrMark1961 profile image97
        DrMark1961posted 23 months agoin reply to this

        It would appear that the HP niche sites are already part of an experiment. If TAG sees Parade (and other sites with sidebar ads) go up and the niche sites readership go down then they will have their answer.
        We apper to be the guinea pigs here. I am not sure how long it is going to continue in this form.

    3. chef-de-jour profile image96
      chef-de-jourposted 23 months agoin reply to this

      Hi Sue,

      I followed the link to the Parade article but couldn't see any mention of TAG in the T&C of Parade Media/AMG (Athlon Media Group) - perhaps I overlooked something in the small print?

      The article in question has mostly uninterrupted text as pointed out, save for one ad early on. I could read through without becoming irritated!

      Let's hope HP moves soon on this urgent issue of ads placement.

      1. DrMark1961 profile image97
        DrMark1961posted 23 months agoin reply to this

        I did not see it on that page either but found it here: https://thearenagroup.net/our-brands/
        (I also noticed that they highlighted only a few of the HP niche sites on that page. Why no Owlcation?)

        1. chef-de-jour profile image96
          chef-de-jourposted 23 months agoin reply to this

          Much obliged DrMark, I see it now.

  17. Miebakagh57 profile image68
    Miebakagh57posted 23 months ago

    I can hardly imagine that. The merger of Hubpages, Maven, and  TAG does both writers and readers no good.

  18. bravewarrior profile image87
    bravewarriorposted 23 months ago

    Furthermore, I'd like to add this: Most of us (yes, that's an assumption) were attracted to HubPages because we had the opportunity to earn a passive income by posting our work here. That grew to a community that we found who supported and encouraged us, gave us feedback, and advise. We grew. We posted more articles. We learned how to satisfy the SEO gods in order to attain the driving goal that brought us here in the first place.

    Now the community is gone, with the exception of forums that no longer rank on Google, and the earnings have dwindled to very little for many of us.

    What I don't understand is why you want to continue the fight when it's quite apparent we've already lost the battle!

    1. Solaras profile image96
      Solarasposted 23 months agoin reply to this

      It is very demotivating.  If they want to change the payment scheme, then let us know what it is, so we can decide if it works for us. 

      Having no specific sharing agreement in place means that all of the stats are meaningless, except pageviews. And who knows what we can actually trust, because, after all, it is meaningless. 

      They have no obligation to tell it to us straight; we just get whatever they feel for doing for us that week. And that is sad and probably immoral if not illegal.

      1. bravewarrior profile image87
        bravewarriorposted 23 months agoin reply to this

        Yep. They obviously don't want us here. I see The Arena Group dismembering HP because of lack of contribution. I think that's their intent, in my surveyance of what's been going on. I honestly think we're wasting our breath and efforts by sending pleas to HP. Those who aren't hired by Arena will be let go, as will the HP format. Shoot, what am I saying? The HP format has been long gone!

  19. Rochelle Frank profile image89
    Rochelle Frankposted 23 months ago

    I’m sure a lot of Hubpages writers are considering a change. The contributors are great but a lot of things have changed that are not positive for the writers. If there are other options HP will fade.

  20. Sue Adams profile image94
    Sue Adamsposted 23 months ago

    I have emailed the team again with the following edited/expanded extract of Beth's post summarising our concerns and proposing a solution.
    _____________________
    Subject: Writers' Concerns

    1. Traffic and earnings have dropped because they are drowned out by videos and repeated unrelated ads interrupting the text.

    2. HubPages has not stated clearly on what basis earnings are calculated. For example, do writers get a share of clicked "sponsored ads", the so-called "advertorials" below our articles?

    3. HubPages is not responding to writers' concerns.

    4. Writers recommend adopting the ads policy of the Arena site "Parade"  which has no interrupting ads in the middle of the text, only sidebar ads. Here is an example of one of their articles: https://parade.com/1392900/emily-lauren … -blisters/
    ______________________________________

    We have proven in the past that consistent canvassing brought about results—for example, years ago when we insisted on weeding out inferior content. That brought about today's improved vetting and editing policies. We've done it before, we can do it again.

    Please email team@hubpages.com

    1. Misbah786 profile image84
      Misbah786posted 23 months agoin reply to this

      +1 (Now it sounds positive.)  smile

  21. Donna-Rayne profile image90
    Donna-Rayneposted 23 months ago

    Hello, I recently had my mother read one of my articles and after she was finished she told me that there were too many ads that popped up and it irritated her because she was intent on reading my article.

  22. Sue Adams profile image94
    Sue Adamsposted 23 months ago

    I finally received a reply from team@hubpages.com to my last email which read:
    _______________
    Writers' Concerns
    1. Traffic and earnings have dropped because they are drowned out by videos and repeated unrelated ads interrupting the text.

    2. HubPages has not stated clearly on what basis earnings are calculated. For example, do writers get a share of clicked "sponsored ads", the so-called "advertorials" below our articles?

    3. HubPages is not responding to writers' concerns.

    4. Writers recommend adopting the ads policy of the Arena site "Parade"  which has no interrupting ads in the middle of the text, only sidebar ads. Here is an example of one of their articles: https://parade.com/1392900/emily-lauren … -blisters/

    Sincerely,
    Juliette Kando ‒ Username: Sue Adams
    ______________________________________________________:::___

    Their reply received today 21 June 2022:

    Subject: Ads placement

    Hello,

    We received your email and appreciate your suggestions and concern. We are always trying to strive for the best balance between author earnings and ad experience. We understand sometimes ads can be invasive, but we also want our authors to earn from their work. We will continue to modify our ad layout to achieve the best user and earnings experience possible.

    Please let me know if you have any further questions or concerns.

    Thanks,
    Luke
    Team HubPages
    ____________________________________________

    Since this reply is addressed to "Hello" without addressing me by name, I assume that it is a generic email message to all of us who have contacted the team about ads placement.

    I just replied with the following:

    Hello Luke,

    Thank you for your reply. However, you have not addressed our 2nd point:
    2. Despite intensive study of the Terms of Use by several writers, we still cannot figure out on what basis our earnings are calculated. Two questions arise:

    a) Do we still get 60% of ad revenue?
    b) Do writers get a share of the income from the numerous "sponsored ads", the so-called "advertorials" below our articles?

    Please clarify these questions.

    Thanking you in advance,

    Juliette Kando—user name: Sue Adams

    1. Misbah786 profile image84
      Misbah786posted 23 months agoin reply to this

      Thank you for the update, Juliette

    2. chef-de-jour profile image96
      chef-de-jourposted 23 months agoin reply to this

      Juliette -  thank you for emailing HP and well done with the fascinating reply, which is a positive but essentially offers none specific answers to your questions. At least HP is listening. What we need now is action. If they're serious about wanting the best for writers then the ads placement issue has to be addressed. What I don't understand is the reluctance from a business perspective to change the page layout or at least experiment with uninterrupted text. If I was in business I'd want to KNOW if I'm losing out on earnings. I'd consult with writers, I'd carry out a reader survey for satisfaction, I'd change things if needs be.

    3. bravewarrior profile image87
      bravewarriorposted 23 months agoin reply to this

      Thank you, Sue. I'm curious to see if they reply to your specific questions and what that response will be.

  23. Donna-Rayne profile image90
    Donna-Rayneposted 23 months ago

    Thank you, Sue for everything that you're doing for everyone! You are awesome!

  24. Sue Adams profile image94
    Sue Adamsposted 23 months ago

    Thank Bev who wrote the original summary of our concerns.

    1. Misbah786 profile image84
      Misbah786posted 23 months agoin reply to this

      +1

  25. Sue Adams profile image94
    Sue Adamsposted 23 months ago

    Hello all,

    In answer to the 2 questions:

    a) Do we still get 60% of ad revenue?
    b) Do writers get a share of the income from the numerous "sponsored ads", the so-called "advertorials" below our articles?

    I just received this email from Matt:
    Hello,

    We cannot share any more details than are supplied in the Terms of Use and the FAQ.
    Writers do earn a share of sponsored ads below articles.

    https://thearenagroup.net/terms-of-use/
    https://hubpages.com/faq/#royalties

    Periodically we receive inquiries from the author community regarding the specifics of our HubPages revenue share formulas. While the company does make public filings with certain summary partner revenue data across all of its lines of business in aggregate, the company does not publish specific data for HubPages.

    Thanks,
    Matt
    Team HubPages

    1. bravewarrior profile image87
      bravewarriorposted 23 months agoin reply to this

      This is discouraging. I know exactly how much I make through my (daytime) employer and charge fair rates in my freelance work. I always know what my income will be. To be so vague in Matt's response to you is not good.

 
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