Earnings are the lowest right now

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   Abhi Gaurposted 8 months ago

   I don't know why but the views of all articles written by me have gone down which suggests that HubPages and other sites associated with them are going down in the rankings. Note that I had several successful articles on multiple sites like LevelSkip and ToughNickel. Now everything has gone to waste. I don't know if I can discuss the earnings but they are really low. They are even lower than when I had only written 5 articles. I also want to know if other people are facing this issue. Is there some alternative that you guys have come up with? I apologize for any grammatical errors because I am not going to proofread this one.

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      jansharesposted 8 months agoin reply to this

      It's the same for most of us, Abhi. Earnings are the lowest ever since I came on in 2012. So much has changed on the site and with online writing in general. Some writers have left; some have joined other sites to supplement. I joined Medium but have not seen any money yet. I'm hanging in here until the ship sinks while I can still get payouts to fill my gas tank. I also like to write the occasional poem.

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         Abhi Gaurposted 8 months agoin reply to this

         Thank you for the response Jan. I am also thinking about joining other sites to get some extra income that HubPages provided earlier.

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      Kenna McHughposted 8 months agoin reply to this

      HP has hit an all-time low. However, I would like to hear from other writers who haven't posted in the forums. Are they feeling the same crunch? I remember Paul would update us and fill the vacuum, so we stopped speculating and had hard information. Those were the days, my friend! Please come back to us, Paul or someone from HP and let us know the real score.

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      Khanmaria12posted 8 months agoin reply to this

      Earning on HP seems really hard. But we can't join medium partner program too. Other options ,I tried a lot but didn't work for me

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      Justine Guiaoposted 8 months agoin reply to this

      I am actually experiencing increase in traffic in the past week but CPM is way down (as low as cents) which causes my low earnings.
      
      I have a couple of drafts on my pc but it's not worth it to continue them right now on top of my job. I will not stop writing here at HP, but like others, I might slow my pace.

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      Joshua Crowderposted 8 months agoin reply to this

      I feel your pain. At one time, I made $1 per article a month. Now I'm somewhere between $.25 and .44 per article monthly through the year. I had a goal and plan but now my work here is just for fun to improve my writing.

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         Kenna McHughposted 8 months agoin reply to this

         Joshua that is sad!

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   PaulGoodman67posted 8 months ago

   Yup, things are bad. HP are still plugging away and trying to make improvements but so far it's been to no avail.
   
   I'm not sure what else can be said about the situation.

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      paolaenergyaposted 8 months agoin reply to this

      I think online writing is currently being challenged by both AI and video content, so us writers have to be innovative in our topics because, let's face it, everything has already been written about! And, yes, earning more through Hubpages would really help a lot of us right now.

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         Jan Stepanposted 8 months agoin reply to this

         As you say, we are getting adequately challenged by AI, and I assume it will continue to be more and more difficult to stay on top of it. Even now, AI has replaced the majority of writers. The best ones remain, but for how long?

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      Abhi Gaurposted 8 months agoin reply to this

      It seems we can only wait and see Paul. Thanks for your response.

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         PaulGoodman67posted 8 months agoin reply to this

         While I miss the days when HP was independent, I doubt that it would still be going if it wasn't part of TAG.
         
         I submitted a new article today for publishing, the first in a long while. I've still got some hope of a site revival but my confidence has been severely dented after over two years of pretty much relentless decline.

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   eugbugposted 8 months ago

   For me, traffic and rankings started falling from June 2021 and never recovered.

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      PaulGoodman67posted 8 months agoin reply to this

      Yes, and I'm not even confident that they've stemmed the bleeding, never mind reached a point where things can be turned around.
      
      I think the authority of the site (EEAT) is the main underlying issue, hence the frantic editing and shifts in policy on things like header images. In some cases, I have had editors editing work that was done previously by other editors.
      
      I did publish an article today, which was the first in a long time.
      
      Meanwhile, payment rates appear to have been cut over at Medium...
      
      The future of online writing seems more uncertain than ever, especially with AI coming down the line.
      
      AI-generated articles will be even more stilted than SEO-orientated text. It's depressing for lovers of the written word but the thing with AI is that no human can compete with the costs, which are zero to negligible with AI.

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   bhattucposted 8 months ago

   The web space is becoming more and more competitive. There are many sites offering good articles to their readers. I do not think that Hubpages is going down in rankings.
   It is only a matter of availability of a large number of sites offering same thing.

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   eugbugposted 8 months ago

   CPM has dropped too and it's only mid Q3.

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      PaulGoodman67posted 8 months agoin reply to this

      Summer's a weird time. I'm hoping that there'll be a slight uptick in the next few weeks just because of seasonality.
      
      My earnings would basically have to treble to get me back to where I was before the Great Decline. I'm not holding my breath.
      
      Some of the recent editing decisions sound pretty drastic. Keith/FatFreddysCat said something about having 20+ articles getting kicked out of the niches. I've not had anything that drastic but there's been a lot of activity.
      
      I only wish there was a sign that the actions were working. Right now, I'm reminded of the Shakespeare quote: "Full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing".

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         Kenna McHughposted 8 months agoin reply to this

         It's tough right now. Thanks for The Scottish Play quote!

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   Solarasposted 8 months ago

   I had a nice little runup after the editors changed many of the main images on PetHelpful, doubling my earnings. 
   
   Now, predictably, that is dropping off at the rate of a C note a month.  In some months, I will owe TAG money for posting my articles here.
   
   Regarding Google preferring ALT text and captions, Google has the ability to read text on images and add that into the mix of ALT and captions in determining the weight of an image.  I think that is why those text overlaid images were just pushed down on my hubs, and not removed from view.

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   jansharesposted 13 days ago

   Greetings. I'm reviving this thread because it addresses my current concerns about the status of HubPages.
   
   To HP Staff: Can you give us, the steadfast and committed writers and poets of HP, a status update on the current state of low earnings and views? We understand that we are not privy to any details or confidential business info. A brief summary as to where we are, why we are here, where we're going, and an outlook for the future would be great.
   
   I'm asking for this status update because, over the last 2 weeks, I've been weary. When I check my daily earnings, I'm feeling emotions I have not felt since I've been at HP. I have lost interest and motivation to write on this platform. The daily amount is hitting below the belt and impacting my dignity as a writer. My payout for 2023 decreased by 75%.
   
   If I understood what is happening, explained by staff, it would help me "hang in there." But to be kept "hanging" without any status updates as things appear to be going downhill, is bordering on disrespectful.
   
   If you are unable to share a brief summary of the reasons behind low earnings and views and a prognosis regarding the future of HP, please at least pick one of these options below.
   
   1. "Don't worry. Things will be looking up soon and you'll see earnings and views increase significantly by the summer or fall."
   
   2. "There are major issues going on currently and we are unable to reveal any information. However, these issues will be resolved over the next few months, with earnings and views steadily but slowly increasing and stabilizing."
   
   3. "Earnings and views will not improve for the foreseeable future. HP is in transition and unable to speak on status updates at this time. We hope to make a comeback. However, we cannot predict when that might be, for reasons out of our control."
   
   Thank you for your time. I hope HP Staff is able to reply. We have speculated enough as a community and need answers from the horse's mouth to help those of us who remain loyal make decisions about our futures with HP. Offered in peace.

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      Kenna McHughposted 13 days agoin reply to this

      Jan, You have a well-thought-out post. I know it took you some time to write because it is well communicated—to the utmost. I hope Matt or whoever responds in kind.

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         jansharesposted 12 days agoin reply to this

         Thanks, Kenna. I hope so, too.

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   Solarasposted 12 days ago

   Once Upon a Time, the Paul's were able to communicate with Google powers that be and get insight into what needed to be changed at HP to gain traction in the SERPs.  Is that not happening anymore?
   
   Does anyone at TAG care about what is happening at HP and its niche sites?
   
   I really can't think of any successful organization that gives so little communication, almost zero, to the contributors.  Out side of Matt saying, refresh your page, or you changed your password, we get nothing, not even a corporate statement.  Weird.

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      Kenna McHughposted 12 days agoin reply to this

      Solaras, Let's give Matt a chance to reply. I know some writers here who are doing very well.

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         theraggededgeposted 12 days agoin reply to this

         Hi Kenna,
         
         How do you define 'very well' and who are these writers?
         
         I'd be interested to know because my approach is no longer working.

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            greenmindposted 12 days agoin reply to this

            I'll stick my neck out and say that my traffic and CPM are still pretty healthy. That said, I have seen a decline in traffic of about 20% compared to last year. I just went through and took the the time to add substantial text and information to my top 40 or so articles, so we'll see if that picks things up a bit.

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               theraggededgeposted 12 days agoin reply to this

               Thank you, Fred. Let us know how it goes.

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               PaulGoodman67posted 8 days agoin reply to this

               For me, it shows how low the bar's got when somebody describes losing 20% of their views as "pretty healthy." It's almost damning with praise.
               
               That said, it's true that the overall losses over the past year are not quite as drastic as what happened in 2022, according to SEMRush.
               
               Every loss takes us lower, however, whether it's 20, 30, or 40%.

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            Kenna McHughposted 12 days agoin reply to this

            Hi Beth, The ones doing very well have posted on HP, and a couple of them have offered advice.
            
            With that, Matt needs to read Jan's post, which is very well thought out and asks for direction.

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               PaulGoodman67posted 11 days agoin reply to this

               People’s idea of what doing “very well” means varies considerably. It’s always best to check out their articles and form one’s own opinion, in my experience.

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                  Kenna McHughposted 11 days agoin reply to this

                  I am sure you did that Paul when they posted.

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         Solarasposted 10 days agoin reply to this

         We have been asking for feedback, advice and any insider knowledge from the powers that be for over 2 years.  I don't expect a reply, although I think we deserve something.

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   Arensshiposted 12 days ago

   I just hit the lowest earning today.

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    Jodahposted 12 days ago

    Thank you for asking those reasonable questions, Jan. They deserve a reply.

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    eugbugposted 12 days ago

    I think the lack of communication is because Hubpages just has technical and administrative staff remaining to keep the site running (and editors to update things). Policy is probably decided by TAG, who never communicate. So effectively it's a brand and suite of websites that have been absorbed into TAG, rather than a separate company with autonomy. Just speculation.

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       Solarasposted 10 days agoin reply to this

       I would say you are correct.  I tried to see if anyone manages the Hubpages brand/platform specifically, but there appears to be no such person.
       
       
       Their management structure is broken down by VP of "Arena" So Lifestyle Arena, Adventure Arena, Financial Arena etc...Which means no one has authority or responsibility for any one concern/platform. 
       
       Lifestyle Arena might cover Parade, Dengarden, Pethelpful, Men's Journal etc.  While financial arena might cover The Street, Toughnickel, etc.  And certainly there is overlap between some publications - what is Adventure Arena anyway - Sports, Lifestyle, financial irresponsibility?
       
       There is no successful business model where creatives are told to just keep plugging away, management knows what they are doing (in contrast to our actual real world experiences), where it has been over a year since we last received advice on how to  realign our articles to better suit Google's requirements, in an ever changing landscape. (the last advice I recall receiving was "change the first image and push down the Made for Pinterest images").
       
       In fact, I have come to believe that HP staff is in competition with the contributors here.  For instance, there are two authors who are apparently experts, between them, on all of the breeds recognized by the AKC.  They are busy writing The Ultimate Guide for every breed.  How did they both get that idea? And the advice they give is so bizarre, I have to wonder if a human even wrote it.
       
       Example: for the Papillion, if your dog is heavier or taller than the breed standard, you should consult your vet about it.  What??? What is a vet visit going to do about a larger than standard dog.  It happens in breeds all day every day. That sounds like something written by a person who really knows nothing about dogs, dog breeds or breeding.
       
       My personal experience is that pageviews have dropped 25% since the end of January 2024.  I expect things to get worse in the summer months.
       
       I don't think that the News, that they are so dedicated to producing, some 7-10 News articles a day, is working to improve views across the board.  However, they are using News articles to feed links to the Ultimate Guides articles via the News articles when they highlight a hilariously sad example of a "particular breed" that will melt your heart.
       
       So what am I saying.  I see HP management is going off on its own direction, to ultimately obsolete the contributing authors, who syphon away 60% of something $$$s. And therefore, it is a waste of time to advise or comfort us.
       The real business at HP and its niche sites is filling it full of fluffy information that covers every title that might be searched for with bland information that can be gleaned from 10 other websites.
       
       The last site to make a go of that, The Spruce Pets, has taken a tumble in the SERPs this year.  So they are chasing a failed model, if that is what they are about.

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          DrMark1961posted 6 days agoin reply to this

          Interesting that you pointed that out about Spruce Pets. The other site that regurgitates the material on the internet, PetMD, is owned by a large Google advertiser, Chewy. They spend a huge amount of money a year in Google advertising and, interestingly, Google puts their information site at the top of most of the searches.
          Unless TAG starts selling products through Pethelpful, and paying Google, I do not see much change and we may end up going the way of Spruce PEts.

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             Kenna McHughposted 6 days agoin reply to this

             Dr. Mark, I agree. It's no longer organic content or SEO. It's advertising. Google a subject related to medicine. Advertisers are at the top.

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                DrMark1961posted 6 days agoin reply to this

                Definitely not how it should be, but I do not see a way out of this without advertising on Google to raise page rank for the HP sites.

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                   Kenna McHughposted 6 days agoin reply to this

                   Yes, unfortunately. The Internet is like radio and television. The advertisers control the content.

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                      PaulGoodman67posted 6 days agoin reply to this

                      For sure, advertisers have always had a lot of commercial power when it comes to traditional media, but it's much worse in the case of Google, as they control both the advertising and the search engine. It's another level of power.
                      
                      The situation is appalling for competition and has only gotten worse over the years, but we have zero control.
                      
                      It's more like a protection racket than a free market. Big companies and corporations effectively give Google a cut in order for their online businesses to successfully function. The rest are squashed out and are forced to survive on the crumbs.
                      
                      It's certainly one of the factors that has made life very difficult for HP but there are others too.

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                         Kenna McHughposted 6 days agoin reply to this

                         I keep a perspective and observe.

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       PaulGoodman67posted 10 days agoin reply to this

       I agree that the communication deficit is almost certainly structural and deliberate, if that's what you're implying, Eugene.
       
       It's been going on for too long (years) for it to be some sort of accident or glitch.
       
       Emotionally, it feels like we've gone from participants in an exciting project to cogs in a machine.

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    PaulGoodman67posted 12 days ago

    I’m not sure that any reassuring words would do it for me at this stage. Only actions and results would influence me.
    
    Unfortunately, there are numerous red flags that point to the site suffering neglect. It speaks louder than words.

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    daydreamsposted 11 days ago

    I was reliably receiving at least a payout every month for several years here.  But so far its looking like it will be less than that this year. Was nice having the small extra income.
    
    I agree with everyone it would be good if there was more communication - would help me decide whether worth putting any energy into writing/updating things again here.

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       Kenna McHughposted 11 days agoin reply to this

       I agree. We need communication from Matt or HP in general. I thought Jan communicated the issues well.

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    Robie Benveposted 10 days ago

    Yep, the lowest ever. The fact that many people use ad-blockers on their browser makes the situation even more difficult. It's a great thing to have, the ad blocker, but surely does not help us.

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       eugbugposted 8 days agoin reply to this

       I think it would be worth trialling teasers to only show readers a snippet of an article and asking them to turn off their ad-blockers if they want to read more. How much work would be involved to implement that? It may not increase revenue or even decrease it, but it's worth a try to see if it improves income. The problem is it seems there's no resources for doing this sort of thing, or the website code is inflexible. A shame the old website format can't be resurrected which Hubpages seemed to have more control over.

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          Kenna McHughposted 8 days agoin reply to this

          Good idea, Eugene.

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    Kenna McHughposted 9 days ago

    Robie, Thanks for the feedback. I wish Matt had commented on and answered Jan's comment. By the way, you have some impressive articles.

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    Adnan Vastaposted 9 days ago

    It's seems to be very difficult to earn money from HP. I'm just trying to keep focus on my articles.

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       Khanmaria12posted 8 days agoin reply to this

       Yes, it is. Your earning here so far?

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          Adnan Vastaposted 8 days agoin reply to this

          Very Low. But, I think i can make some dollars

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    ControlledChaos1posted 2 days ago

    Agree about earnings and search results on Google. They don't even to be stabilizing, which is even more concerning.

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    eugbugposted 2 days ago

    An oligopoly scenario with websites paying Google to be at the top of searches (allegedly), and I don't mean ads. Aren't there anti-competition rules to stop this sort of thing?

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       PaulGoodman67posted 46 hours agoin reply to this

       I’m not aware of any conspiracies. What is true is that Google is more favorable to the big corporate retailers, eg Walmart, than it used to be, which has decimated Amazon revenue.
       
       Also, in my experience, the US is more relaxed than the EU on things like monopolies.
       
       A common attitude in the US is that corporate domination is a just reward rather than a threat to free competition. What’s seen as sensible regulation in Europe can be interpreted as government interference in the US.
       
       In my opinion, it’s ridiculous that Google is both the biggest search engine and controls the advertising.

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