Okay fellow hubbers, I am developing a pet peeve.
While none of us are perfect, I'm starting to wonder about how much "we" care about the quality of our hubs? Are "we" more interested in publishing A LOT of them, or would we rather produce fewer, high quality hubs?
I've just spent about an hour using the new Hub Hopper, a great little tool that takes me places I wouldn't have journied on my own. BUT, as a result, I've subjected myself to more misspellings, bad grammar, and incomplete or jumbled thoughts that I ever care to read again.
One new hub misspells its topic word.
The next says, "This is about things you've never heard about before," only to go on and list 5 common knowledge points -- and nothing else.
Another is so poorly worded, I think someone used a language converter improperly.
It seems to me that it is up to each individual hubber to seek out an editor / proof reader if he/she believes that the hub they are ready to publish is less than a quality piece of work. Though I used to ignore these things, I'm starting to take advantage of the "thumbs down" button. (I use to only use the thumbs up when earned, and ignored the rest.)
If we had a "Editor / proof reader" section where hubbers can volunteer a little bit of time to those who need it, do you think people would take advantage of it, or do people just not care?
I reckon about 5% of the people who need help with spelling/grammar would take advantage of such a service. The rest almost certainly don't give a toss, and probably aren't even aware of how truly fork-being-dragged-across-a-plate awful their English is.
I think people would take advantage of it! I think it's a great idea, actually. But if you really want to complain about the bad grammer, bad spelling, and all the rest, please go to the root of the problem... education. People who never learned are naturally bound to lack the knowledge and skills.
I have a son with dyslexia. We fought the public school system for two go 'rounds of second grade, and a stint of summer school, just to get him tested! Where we live, after second grade teaching reading stops and teaching comprehension begins.
I home schooled him awhile, then he graduated from a private school, (two years early), and can, in fact, read. But had I left it to the public school system, I doubt he would have succeeded, much less excelled.
I sincerely doubt he is an exception rather than a rule. Once a learning issue is "on paper", the school then must install a program to address it. And that costs money. So less than quality education has probably been going on for many decades. With students being passed from grade to grade without a complete concept of what a certain grade level was designed to instill into the minds of the student.
Also, I suggest it is a bold form of expression for a person who is limited in education to put themselves "out there" to be disected by the world at large. (Not to mention it is so very easy to click to another Hub from one a person is offended or irritated by).
The term, "don't sweat the small stuff", comes to mind. And to complain about a symptom rather than to address the actual problem tends to make me think a different perspective is in order.
And... while I'm on my personal "high horse", I believe "free speech" is still something that belongs to those who lack good grammer, or spelling abilities.
But as I began, I think the idea of an editors, proof-readers spot here on HubPages is a very good idea. Maybe you will be able to get something like that started. If you do, I would love to become involved.
That is simple as the text capsule has a spell checker,just click it and correct the underlined word..
"If we had a "Editor / proof reader" section where hubbers can volunteer a little bit of time to those who need it, do you think people would take advantage of it, or do people just not care?"
They would not care. This problem is NOT down to people not knowing how to write, or English being their second language (you can usually tell when the problem is second languages because the grammar order will resemble their main language, and the piece will still make some sense).
The current problem is down to those spinning bots that are flooding the net, promising marketers that they can just take an Ezine article and spin it in a couple of seconds and then post it. It saves them having to spend a couple of hours writing a hub. The problem is that if they've picked an article with a lot of idiomatic English in it, the spin will make no sense at all (or alter the sense to something quite different and contradictory).
I imagine hubpages has introduced the hopper thing so their solid hubbers can spot the problem hubs and flag them. Whether anyone has the time or inclination to spend hub hopping, to spot problems is another question.
NEVER!..post or publish without correcting all typos first.
Then re-read the entire "piece" for grammatical errors.
Syntax is so important! Make sure all sentences and paragraphs "flow" and express a thought clearly and concisely.
Punctuation....so important in relaying a thought with emphasis and power. Read what you've written out loud and listen to yourself..carefully. Add punctuation as you sense where it's needed.
When you think you are finished, walk away. Come back later and read it out loud again. Try to improve it again before publishing.
I re-read a "hub" several times before I publish.
I am not a pro writer but I'm "fussy" and slightly "anal."
As an amateur, I want anything I publish to be as perfect as I can produce it.
I even do this in "forum" responses.
It may be hard to do, but "constructive criticism" should always be considered.
This seems to work for me.
While I completely agree with your comments I would take them more serious if you yourself had not misspelled journeyed!
Obviously not all hubs are created equal, but who is to say which hubs are more equal than others?
The few times I've tried the Hub Hopper all I got were Hubs with very low scores. I've read a lot of great Hubs, so I know there are plenty of them out there. Is the Hub Hopper a way to draw traffic to the lower scoring Hubs? Maybe that's why you ran across so many problems.
The reason the hub hopper hubs have low scores is because most new hubs start in the 45-55 range, and the hub hopper features new (2 days or less) hubs. So of course no matter what the hubs in the hub hopper will have low scores.
write another perfectly spelled how to , or why hub . you'll feel better im sure of it.
I agree with most of what you say. Spam hubs that are blatantly duplicate or are just a glorified placeholder for anchored keywords are the bane of Hubpages and leech the work of Hubbers who have gained google's and the internet's trust at large due to high quality content.
A lot of great writers on hubpages are effectively piggy-back riding a horde of bots, and it drives me a little up the wall. The hub hopper is an example of this, but one second on the answers section of the website turns my stomach. Perhaps one question on ten makes any sense whatsoever!
two" how to" peas in a pod. how quaint . is that quality content?
I think there are some people who just don't care; some people who would care if they knew they were making so many mistakes; and some people who care and don't know how to ask for help. Then there are people like me who work hard, edit twice or three times, check the spelling and STILL find a mistake or three after its been published and then go back and fix it. I have also sometimes not fixed it if I thought it just made me seem more human to have a couple mistakes - no really, that's how I think!
But then, don't forget, many, many (perhaps too many) people never really wrote much, even in school. They don't read much either, so they don't really know about their own mistakes. I really believe that. So I read for content and creativity and try to stifle my inner critic as much as possible, giving the benefit of doubt.
So, yes, to answer your question, some people would love to have an editing section of the forums where they could go to get help from other hubbers - and some already do that by asking in the forums.
Thankfully, the Hubscore is usually fairly quick to claim garbage hubs and shove them to the bottom of the pile.
Really? I saw a garbage hub yesterday with a score of 78. Compared to my initial score of 48 for this hub: <snipped> that I posted yesterday, I have to wonder how true your statement is. I'd like to think you are right; it just doesn't fit with my experience.
I agree completely with what you said Lynda.
It's just as well the hopper pages load fast because I read the first sentence almost of most and I just want to leave.
Maybe that's why they put it there, to let the rest of us see the poor quality of so many hubbers.
I always thought Hubpages took pride in their hubbers producing quality content?
At first I too ignored the poorer hubs and only thumbed up the good ones, but today I found myself not only giving some the thumbs down, but flagging them as well.
One guy had an article copied word for word from wikipedia!
how many peas are there in this" how to" pod? a plethora .a plenty. far to many.
I concentrate on the quality of my hubs. What other people do has no impact on me.
But if HP gets flooded with crap hubs it does eventually impact us all if Google stops looking so favorably upon this domain. Right?
This hopper tool was introduced so we could quickly rate and flag both good and bad hubs. I think it is in all of our best interest to use it occasionally.
It helps the creme rise to the top and the crap to sink down faster.
There are a lot of hubs that aren't typos or something that might be picked up on, on a re-read, there are kids hubbing whose use of the English language is dreadful to put it mildly.
Isn't there an over 18 rule here?
I find two in just the last half hour that have more spelling errors than words spelled correctly, where the hubber is talking about what they did in school that day (well not today obviously - it's Saturday). There are kids on here who think this is a blog.
Admin would really appreciate if you would flag that stuff when you come across it. I flag underage users all the time. They often say so openly in their bios.
I usually choose the hubs I read from people's posts in the forums - it works well because it is like screening the calls! But there are a few hubbers who are active in forums who really do need editing and I haven't been able to say anything to them. I love their creativity and they are trying very hard, so I just give them positive feedback wherever possible.
I don't have time to read the hub hopper hubs - it is way too hit or miss. I'm sure there are scads of people in HP who are woefully undereducated or just underage, but I generally don't feel like policing the hubs at all. I know my own kids did not get the kind of exacting writing instruction I got in school. I know that because the culture is way different now, people just don't read books and magazines as much as before. I read everything I can find and silently edit even these! I find typos all over and grammar and usage mistakes and poor sentence structure - even in places like Vanity Fair and Vogue and The Atlantic. I have to just accept it or go nuts, and since I am already nuts, problem solved!
I must admit it's a personal bugbear of mine too, though I usually I just zip it and don't say anything.
I've seen quite a few glaring errors amongst otherwise good writers here, and I've been known to email the odd one about their 'typo'. I appreciate if anyone does the same for me. I'm not perfect either.
I might even already be nuts, like yourself
I started on HP with the intent to just write some things I'd been thinking of for awhile and read some other people's stuff too. Then I started posting in the forums and for awhile that became a big addiction with me. Now, I write less frequently and don't spend as much time in the forums and am quite content. But I never signed on here to teach others and I'm very selfish so I know I wouldn't help out in the editing corner as a volunteer! let them take some classes at a Jr. College ! go back to school and do the work! that's the way I feel right now, but ask again tomorrow!
I agree, like any other art, writing takes work and training and practice. You can't always expect others to fix your mistakes for you, especially when you are self-publishing on the Internet. If you read any books today you will realize that many books do not get edited very carefully anymore.
'Tis true, Lynda, but the HP team said that this is partly what the hopper is for - to quickly weed out the substandard crap. I am usually pretty lenient with the thumbs down, but have downrated a few Hubs.
I don't mind bad spelling and grammar if the content is unique and interesting. When it is blatantly keyword soup, that is a different matter.
This is my feeling too. My brain has the ability to 'fix' an error or typo as I read so long as the content is there. I have enjoyed reading a good many hubs that had a few little typo's but where very thought provoking reads, or emotionally charged or whatever else that kept me reading. Language is changing, the net and now 'text speak' are all having major impacts on how language is used and I for one am just trying to roll with the changes . At the end of the day language is about successfully communicating an idea or believe or event or whatever and if a person can get their points across in text form I am happy, to many cannot actually do that with perfect spelling and punctuation
seasoning is the only creative writer to weigh in yet .as far as i see it. the rest of you dolts get a thumbs down how to be substandard in a big way vote. add punctuation to your suiting.
i c u . i spelled it as correct as you'll ever see it spelled. letter wasting . over wording . punctuating fools. say something new . something that makes you think . that one has to. struggle to understand. or you can just grade papers. with your lil red pen.
I know I'm not a great, creative or gifted writer. But then I'm not here trying to make money from my writing...in fact I would probably have to pay people to read my hubs
I just write what I like, try to have a little fun and in the course of it hope I don't make a complete ass of myself and that maybe someone will find some of my writing interesting, touching or funny.
i love your work, what hubs i have read, so thanks for taking the time, and maybe someday you will reap rewards financially
I like to write informative hubs for the most part, things within my area of expertise in a way I hope is helpful.
Having said that, some of my early hubs were awful!
I deleted some, rebuilding the others to bring them up to my current level of understanding. The learning is ongoing for me.
OK you can send the cheque later
I just read some of your stuff and like it so much I fanned you
I have to say I am tired of looking at hubs consisting only of female body parts.
Aware...a good writer can actually come up with ideas and write a coherent sentence.
Aware seems to be slightly less aware than he is aware of.
aware - I think the point in having conventions, standards, rules of communication is so that every time we read another person's work we don't have to decipher what they are saying. I don't read the hubs that are written in "nu-speak" or the ones that just disregard all the conventions of English. I don't find it interesting or fun at all. But I'm not saying those hubbers can't write their trash if they really want to!
Writing is a craft. Before the Internet, if you had not mastered the basics of it, no one knew because the agencies that publish written work would cull your scribbles before anyone else had to endure them. Now, anyone with a pulse can faceroll the keyboard and publish whatever comes out. "Look, Ma, I'm a writer!"
"If we had a "Editor / proof reader" section where hubbers can volunteer a little bit of time to those who need it, do you think people would take advantage of it, or do people just not care?"
They would certainly take advantage of it and that's the problem.
Like Darkside wrote, what other people do has no impact on me.
I think many here fail to remember that HP is an international community and many members don't have a full grasp of the English language. When I come across a hub that is poorly written I don't even bother with it. But if I come across a hub where the author did put some effort into it and has a misspelled word or other errors, I'll send a message rather than point it out in the comments.
I bet there would be nearly as many inept editors volunteering as there are inept writers mashing the "publish" key now.
I sent a message once when I slightly knew the writer and thought he would like to have the comment about the use of "who" or "whom" because I like his writing but the way he used "whom" was driving me crazier - I don't think he really like my message much, but I vowed to never give my advice again unless someone asked me for it.
Probably a good idea to get to know the person first through some comments. When someone fans me I usually go read a few of their hubs and I figure if they fanned me they must trust my judgment or writing ability enough to receive some constructive advice.
Sorry, Shades. I only use my face because I don't have thumbs!
Yeah, but your antlers tend to hit interesting keys, so you get a pass.
Well. It seems to me that the hopper is working. I have only been on HP for a few weeks. The "bad" hubs were one reason I didn't join earlier. I used the hopper the other day, but was afraid to rate any of them down. Now I will.
The hopper seems like a safe way to give feedback, and improve the overall quality of HP.
I am a bit put off by the "how to" jabs. They seem unnecessarily mean-spirited.
BTW, I am mostly interested in writing and perfecting sales hubs.
(just ignore, Jule -- like everyone else is doing)
I've just come to accept the fact that anyone can get their work published on the Internet and then still call themselves a writer.
I've always figured that you're not really a writer until OTHER people call you one. Until then, you're just writing.
I've always figured you're a "writer" when you take it seriously enough to put in the work required, the time and practice, to have control of language and grammar. This requires time, patience, discipline, and throwing tons and tons and tons of stuff away. Becoming a "writer" is an internal process that is completely outside of "being published" or even read. What other people call you is meaningless.
I still feel oogy about calling myself a writer, to be honest, but sometimes I think I am close enough that if I round up.... But it's totally internal. Screw other people. WTF do they know?
Thanks everyone, for sharing your opinions. Gave me some new perspectives to consider.
And, btw, I did just write a new hub that I HOPE is perfectly spelled. Anyone who finds an error is welcome to point it out to me, via email though, please.
I'm def going to start making more judicious use of the thumbs down when needed. I, too, did some flagging today, something I'd not done before.
I guess the reason I "care" is because I'm part of a community here, and if people keep finding / reading these crappy hubs and then I say, "I'm a hub writer," well, that just doesn't set right with me.
I might be one of those people who fall into the crappy hub category, nonetheless I feel to proofread well one needs the distance of time to see mistakes in their writing. Read another person's writing and you see their mistakes; read your own writing and you automatically supply corrections when you read without always physically correcting the mistake. Editors and proofreaders were/are essential to the publishing world and perform very different tasks. A good writer may be a good writer thanks to a good editor.
To take the time to edit and proofread means fewer hubs, and fewer hubs means a lower Hub score, and a lower score means fewer readers, and fewer readers means almost no comments or fans.
I use the thumbs down when I read a Hub that was obviously spun.
I've found the best way to proofread your own work is to read it out loud after letting it sit for 24 hrs. That way you can "hear" the work and you're less likely to add the corrections unconsciously.
It was my understanding that we are to not let personal interests get in the way of rating hubs. If the content is well written, it gets a thumbs up. If it's poorly written (grammatical, spelling & punctuation errors) then it gets a thumbs down.
The hard part is deciding what's too many errors. Three? Five? One per paragraph in every paragraph?
I would much prefer to have all high quality, high traffic hubs that produce income than many mediocre hubs.
Quality matters, not quantity. Those who think otherwise just won't last.
I'm sure I make grammar mistakes, but I do my best. I think an occasional misspelled word or grammar mistake isn't that bad if the hub has great content otherwise.
Rounding up - love it.
I say I'm a writer, but I don't use a capital W.
Another thing the hopper has shown me is that it's easier to see when someone has written two or three identical hubs and posted them within minutes of each other.
Is that what they are? I thought it was the same hub coming round again randomly. I shall look closer the next time I see the same hub coming up almost twice in quick succession!
Sometimes it is, but other times it's not
Wont that flag as duplicate content?
I don't know, I've seen several people in the past who think they can get by with identical articles with slightly different titles.
If you go to Hubs from the browse bar and then pick the latest option, you'll be seeing a list of all the newest Hubs on the site.
I still find that a better way of nailing the prolific spammers. You can see a page of 10 Hubs all at once instead of one at a time.
The problem in question is caused by the spinning software and by lack of editing or proper writing skills in other cases. Honestly, some people don't give a hoot.
There are good sites out there that can help a writer that wants to check his or her grammar and help with writing different styles of articles is also available on the Internet.
Those people that want to take advantage of these resources only need to do a search on the topic of concern.
I'm pretty conservative when it comes to voting down/flagging Hubs, but when I see one of those robot-spun Hubs with weird words and robot-clipped sentences I vote down (or maybe even flag) it immediately. My first thought it that it's probably someone who doesn't even recognize good grammar/writing if they see it, so they probably stole the article before they spun it. Even if it's their own, they apparently don't bother reading it and fixing it before posting. So, for either reason, the person posting it deserves to get rated down.
People who post those; and the people who think they're going to become millionaires by posting six lines in horribly broken, barely understandable, English; aren't going to care about a proofreader.
Spell/typo/intro mistakes do happen most of times. I try to improve myself as much as i can.
Unless robot/spun or spam hub or hub that violates advertisers rule is there i don't even bother to flag it down.
my hubs are more of a personal thing. i take a topic i like and i write about it based on personal experience. i dont always use punctuation the right way, spell words correctly, have a flow to what im saying but by the time its done and said they all make sense. I dont write to make money, i write to share a piece of me with everyone and because like you said everyone is not perfect neither are my hubs.
sure i like it when my ratings go up but it really don't bother me much because somewhere in hubberville someone relates to what i wrote about.
with that being said i can agree with a pet peeve .. i have come across a few hubbers who have joined recently and have almost 20 hubs in a matter of a week but the hubs in my opinion are not of quality and i can not see the point of the writing. they are at least a paragraph or 2 long and not really informative or personal or anything and that can be annoying. i like reading the hubs with personal flair to them but i also like reading about things i am interested in.
i guess it is a "to each his own" type deal
I wasn't going to weigh in on this but after spending some time yesterday in the Hopper so to speak, I can see the point. I'm with the group that most of the time I don't let what others here are doing phase me, but wow it seems that the influx is to use the site to blog and that is not what it is for at all.
I enjoy the personal articles, the poems, the occasional short story, and even the product hubs here from the people I follow and I love to find new people along the way, that is what makes this a great community of writers. With that being said, I don't expect to see perfection, this is a vast community of people from all walks of life. It is disheartening though to see a hub with nothing but half dressed women, two paragraphs about what someone ate for lunch, or whatever as I too believe it cheapens the site when these make it to the front page above some of the fantastic writing that can be found here.
When I found this site I was green, I mean greener than the first blossom of Spring. I've learned a lot in in the past few months but still have a lot to learn. While it is annoying to see some of the writing that is out there, if you feel you have the time stop and ask if someone needs help instead of just rating them down with no explanation. I for one would like to see us all succeed!
Sometimes "content for search engines & content for humans" create this type issue. Some HP members have success with "content for search engines",but for others it is garbage.( PS: This is the reason scraper sites/Autoblogs work as they're made for search engines)
"Are "we" more interested in publishing A LOT of them, or would we rather produce fewer, high quality hubs?"
An excellent question.
Just to be safe, I make sure my hubs lack both quantity and quality!
I agree, it's becoming ridiculous what is passing for writing. I'm not perfect by far and I've made some mistakes on here, but writing one or two sentences and slapping a picture up doesn't pass for a hub. I just keep going when I see those.
I so would love a proof reader/editor. I do the best I can on my own sadly I do not have a second pair of eyes to count on. Seems everyone I know is busy with their lives and worries to read something. I think I need new friends gee.
I usually read through my hubs again as soon as they start getting visitors from the real world. The typos are often appalling but I can only see them a couple of weeks after publishing.
I still think that my hard earned wisdom or my different experience might be very useful to somebody with good or bad spelling in it. English is my second language so I do not have perfect "feel" of it and never will, but...
Content is still the King, I am sure.
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