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Should people with no hubs be allowed in the general forums?

  1. Pcunix profile image93
    Pcunixposted 7 years ago

    I think not.

    The Help Forum, and Official HubPages Announcements  should be open to them until they create at least one hub, at which time Extreme Makeover, Report a Problem or Suggest a New Feature and Suggest Report a Problem or Suggest a New Feature might open.

    After 5, open 30 Hubs in 30 Days HubChallengers.  After 10, open the rest.

    Possibly consider closing down access again after some period of no new hubs, six months, a year, something.

    I think it would eliminate a lot of garbage, a few sock puppets, and make HP a better place. Probably the same thing should be done with Questions.

    1. Beelzedad profile image55
      Beelzedadposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Quantity over quality will make HP a better place?

      Perhaps, one well written hub is more worthy than a handful of word salads.

      Just sayin' smile

      1. Pcunix profile image93
        Pcunixposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Then allow an exception for views.  If you have only 1 hub but it has X thousand unique page views, count them in.

        1. Beelzedad profile image55
          Beelzedadposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          I wouldn't presume the amount of page views has anything to do with the quality of work, either.

          An article will stand on its own merit, notwithstanding. smile

          1. Pcunix profile image93
            Pcunixposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            If a tree falls in the forest, but no one hears,  did it still make sufficient noise?

            Look, I understand: you have one hub and from the looks of it, it probably hasn't seen wide circulation.  And you are not a pest in the forums - the religious folks might disagree, but I think you are OK - well, not on that gravity business, but generally :-)

            So you would have to write a few more hubs.  Would it be THAT difficult?

            1. sidpoudyal profile image54
              sidpoudyalposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              I do not agree Pcunix. I am definitely behind Beelzedad on this one, no not just because I am new here. Yeah, Beelzedad has one hub but check him out. That one hub has a hub score of 73 and he has a hubrank of 79. From reading around the forums and viewing established hubs I have learned that to hit a hubrank of 75, a desired threshold for many, hubbers generally write 10 or more hubs. To surpass 75 with just one hub is quite a unique feat in my opinion.

              Keep in mind that not everyone is here to make money, although must of us are, some members may just be passionate about a topic and wish to have some space on the internet where they can express to the world their passion without having to go through the hassle of getting domain names and setting up hosting.

              Although I understand that you wish to filter out unwanted members, holding so much back from every new member will only turn away those that could have brought something really creative and unique to the community.

              As Beelzedad mentioned, setting a limit of published hubs will only increase the number of low quality hubs and spam. Also, page views is EASILY manipulated for anyone with any programming knowledge, something that all spammers seem to have a ton of.

              You want more from and for the community but these two options don't cut it. That is absolutely fine but picking on Beelzedad or his hub is just wrong!

      2. harleymeighan profile image57
        harleymeighanposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Although it would be hard to implement. There would be a need for more reviewers of hubs to make sure posted hubs are of high quality.

    2. Reality Bytes profile image84
      Reality Bytesposted 7 years agoin reply to this




      I like the freedom and sense of equality that HP provides.  Making someone earn the right to be a hubber would be wrong.  This is an open and friendly site right now.  Unless control oriented individuals try and impose their thoughts and beliefs upon others.

      1. Pcunix profile image93
        Pcunixposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        This does NOT say anything about earning the right to be a hubber.  It is earning the right to post in the forums.

        1. Reality Bytes profile image84
          Reality Bytesposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          This forum is part of the site.

          If your rule was in effect I would have probably not worked on my hubs here at all.


          When I signed up, I would write a little on my hubs and then come back to the forums.  If I did not realize the sense of community that Hubpages has very efficiently created, I for one would not have made a home here.

          How do you know the guy with 0 hubs is not working on several hubs.  Maybe they bounce into the forums to ask a question regarding the content of their hubs.

          I know I did.

          1. Pcunix profile image93
            Pcunixposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            And that is why the Help forum, etc. would be open to them as I said.

            1. Reality Bytes profile image84
              Reality Bytesposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              I am not talking about questions concerning hubs.

              I am talking about questions concerning content.

              1. Pcunix profile image93
                Pcunixposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                Did you read what I said?  Extrene Makeover would open at the first hub.

                1. Reality Bytes profile image84
                  Reality Bytesposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  Did YOU read what I said?

                  A hubber may want to open a thread to get opinions on their very first hub!


                  Ex.  What would you do if you were treated rudely by a convenience store worker?  Forum Thread

                  Hub: Customer service what you should expect.

                  The forum is an awesome tool for research?

                  1. Pcunix profile image93
                    Pcunixposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                    Again,  the Help forum would be open upon joining.  Extreme Makeover and Report a Problem at first hub.

    3. saleheensblog profile image60
      saleheensblogposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      you have a point but i still like the freedom the hubbeers get in the forum.But the question section should be revised.I am sick of people asking stupid and fruitless questions.
      At least one hub to enter forum is not a bad idea.

    4. Elpaso profile image59
      Elpasoposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      someone from hubpages invited people on facebook to come here and participate in a discussion about a certain topic. Hubpages gave me the impression you had to sign up and write a hub to join the discussion we were INVITED to participate in. This tread seems to be very underhanded and cowardly. You make it seem like people intruded on your closed little society.  Why not confront people directly?

      1. Randy Godwin profile image96
        Randy Godwinposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Who from HubPages invited you?  And which discussion?

        1. Elpaso profile image59
          Elpasoposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          try to focus on the question at hand, who belongs on hubpages and who doesn't? Trying to silence somebody with better arguments than you is underhanded and cowardly.  Do you have a response to this comment or the actual topic of this discussion?

          1. Aficionada profile image89
            Aficionadaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            Randy Godwin's questions relate to the comment in your previous post, i.e. that someone from HubPages invited a Facebook group to HP for a discussion.  RG was asking for details about what you said for clarification, not necessarily as a challenge (although I shouldn't try to speak for someone else - that's just the way I understood his questions).

            1. Elpaso profile image59
              Elpasoposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              FACEBOOK GROUP?

              1. Aficionada profile image89
                Aficionadaposted 7 years agoin reply to this





                My interpretation of Randy's post would have been clearer if I had said "a group of people from Facebook" (group in the sense of being numerous, not in the sense of being a clique or a specific set of individuals), rather than "FACEBOOK GROUP" without caps.  But it would be unfortunate if that wording shifted your attention in the wrong direction. 

                You yourself brought up the subject of Facebook people being invited to HubPages "to come here and participate in a discussion about a certain topic."  You made an interesting statement, people in the forum were interested in it, and they/we were and are interested in learning more about what you meant.

          2. profile image0
            Website Examinerposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            I am aware that there are people without hubs who have valid reasons for being in the forums. Which is my reason for being apprehensive about supporting the OP's suggestion.

            This said, words like "underhanded" and "cowardly" seem a little strong in view of the continuous debate on how to keep bad content off the site. The OP's suggestion is nothing new, far from it, so please don't shoot the messenger.

      2. profile image0
        Website Examinerposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        OK, so let's address those concerns one by one.

        When signing up, HubPages encourages people to write a hub immediately, but there is no requirement to do so. Forum access is instant.

        As for confronting people directly, it seems that you do not quite understand. Over the past few days, an underage girl has been posting multiple threads in the help forum from multiple accounts. Each time her account is shut down, she opens up another one. Other hubbers, myself included, have literally spent hours trying to flag these accounts and get them shut down. The threads are spamming the help forum. She has no hubs, of course.

        How do you "confront" a person like that? How do you confront the commercial spammers, which are a major problem? Don't you care about the site?

    5. Sally's Trove profile image83
      Sally's Troveposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Others Hubbers here have had a lot of input about parameters for inclusion or exclusion based on a Hubber's Hub output. Those are suggestions HP staff, I think, ought to consider.

      Over all, I agree that some kind of bar should be set and reached before someone can fully participate in this site. Setting some participation criteria would be an interesting way to exercise game dynamics (continuing to build that game layer) and also maybe reduce some of the flaming, trolling button-pushing that leads to hostility...or frustration...in the forums. That would be an exercise in "good" gaming layer construction.

      Everybody needs a carrot to go for.

      1. luvpassion profile image61
        luvpassionposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Actually I think people should come to realize that this is a VIRTUAL WORLD lo, this is not real, people are you listening, I might not be  person I might be a robot, you might be an alien... Not real Life for fun . smile

  2. habee profile image95
    habeeposted 7 years ago

    I love free speech, but I don't like it when people who are "hubbers" in name only come here just to start trouble. Heck, we "real hubbers" argue enough among ourselves! lol

    1. weholdthesetruths profile image59
      weholdthesetruthsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      What makes you "real"?

      1. Pcunix profile image93
        Pcunixposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        She writes real hubs.  So do you. So do I.  Do the call girls and the drunks?

      2. habee profile image95
        habeeposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        "Real" in the sense that I actually write hubs, read others' hubs, comment on others' hubs, and I'm not a sock puppet. I have only one identity here.

        1. weholdthesetruths profile image59
          weholdthesetruthsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          So, "real" to you is one who does what you do, and if they don't, their comments and ideas aren't worthy?

          1. Pcunix profile image93
            Pcunixposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            Again, you LIKE call girls, children, drunks and sock puppets?  You think they add to the HP experience in a positive way?

            1. weholdthesetruths profile image59
              weholdthesetruthsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              Why would I?   Asking people what they think is not implying anything.  It's just asking.

          2. habee profile image95
            habeeposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            Right. They also have to say 10 Hail Marys, spit on their keyboard twice, and wear a leprechaun suit and a multi-colored wig while they write their first 25 hubs. See? Pcunix still has his on!

            You know what I meant! You're just trying to get a rise out of me. Sorry it didn't work. I save all my anger for Randy Godwin, Ernest, Pcunix, Ron Montgomery, and Doug Hughes. lol

            1. weholdthesetruths profile image59
              weholdthesetruthsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              No, I'm not trying to get a "rise out of you".   I'm asking a serious question.  I'm new here, and it seems that there's a "real hubber" vs "not real hubber" dichotomy of some kind.   And it's big enough that people want to change how the place works, so as to change who can and can't express themselves.   

              As an internet and pre-internet forum dweller, I know that there are a LOT of people who have great minds and thoughts, and yet, will NEVER publish anything, as in, create an article or commentary spontaneously.   It is outside of their personality,  it is far beyond their comfort zone.    Yeah, I know spammers are a pain.   And the porn posts are far too common to ignore, but your mechanism is pointed to alienate a whole class of people's personalities from participating.   I don't think it wise.  Nor well considered.    AT least, it is not an equitable means of separating the good from the bad.   I'm not accusing you of bad thinking or motives... Merely pointing out the process you advocate - and the mechanism you're promoting to establish the good from the bad ( you're calling it real vs not ) isn't really going to achieve what you're after.

              1. profile image0
                Website Examinerposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                HubPages is an article publication platform. It is called "HubPages" for a reason. Thus the distinction between "real hubbers" and others. Demanding publication of at least a few hubs as a precondition for forum privileges should come as no surprise to anyone, it would be entirely logic and rational.

                1. weholdthesetruths profile image59
                  weholdthesetruthsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  LOL, Hubpages is a ad publishing site, using ordinary people to generate content and hopefully, enough advertising to pay back, and then profit, to the creators / operators.   

                  Selling it as some kind of publication platform is quite, well, imaginative.   It doesn't fool me, though.   The business model is obvious.

                  1. profile image0
                    Website Examinerposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                    The same can be said for any article directory. Forum access is a privilege for active writers, not something to be taken for granted.

              2. habee profile image95
                habeeposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                Truths, we're not talking about people like you. You have real hubs - I've read a couple of them. You obviously joined HP to write and to interact with other writers.

                Since you asked me what I think a real hubber is, I'll tell you. Well, actually, it's easier for me to say what a real hubber isn't: Someone who joins HP with no intention of writing and is trying to promote another agenda here. From my own experience, I've had many emails from men in Ghana looking for a relationship with an American. I also get comments on my hubs that are nothing more than links - totally unrelated to my hub - to the commenter's website. Spammers do the same thing here on the forums. And then there are the trolls who drop in long enough to create anger. These are the kinds of things with which some of us are concerned.

              3. Sylvie Strong profile image59
                Sylvie Strongposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                This is a place for writers.  Hubpages would still be a great place if they got rid of the forums.  In my opinion, if you are not writing hubs you are not contributing much to the community.  You also are not making hubpages a dime and they aren't a public service agency.  There are plenty of other forums out there.  I don't know why you would come here if you didn't want to be a writer.  And this isn't about censorship.  You can both write quality hubs and express your views on the forum.

    2. Disturbia profile image59
      Disturbiaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I love you habee, you are just always so right on the money!

  3. mistyhorizon2003 profile image94
    mistyhorizon2003posted 7 years ago

    I totally agree, too many people on the forums who are argumentative or just plain nasty, have zero hubs, or maybe one or two, yet they have made hundreds of forum posts.

    1. relache profile image89
      relacheposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      What about people who have made lots of Hubs but are argumentative and just plain nasty, and have made hundreds of forum posts?

      Why don't you want to take action against them as well?

      1. Pcunix profile image93
        Pcunixposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Doesn't nastiness get flagged?

        Why should someone who is plainly NOT a Hubber post in forums at a Hub writing site?

        You know darn well some if them are sock puppets, too.  This woukd make it harder to keep that lie up - might not be worth the effort to some of them.

        And it definitely would keep out the call girls, most of the children and quite a few who are only here to cause trouble.

        Explsin to me why we NEED those people.  What value do they bring?

      2. mistyhorizon2003 profile image94
        mistyhorizon2003posted 7 years agoin reply to this

        I didn't say I didn't want to take action against them as well, but the OP was asking about people who weren't writing hubs, I answered this question rather than going off on a tangent.

  4. profile image0
    Uma07posted 7 years ago

    You made a great suggestion.You have my vote. smile

    1. sofs profile image85
      sofsposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      P C unix has a valid point, If there is some limit may be not 5 hubs
      the number of spammers will be controlled and so will be  the children who are posting on the forums.
      The call girl spamming  may be come to an end!!
      HP Admin should consider this.

  5. Stacie L profile image88
    Stacie Lposted 7 years ago

    I agree,a new rule of no forum posting until you have a few hubs under your belt.
    wink

  6. aguasilver profile image80
    aguasilverposted 7 years ago

    Totally agree, 5 seems a reasonable number to expect someone will put up, and would give them the time to 'acclimatise' to the cut and thrust of the forums without adding to it!

  7. Ultimate Hubber profile image70
    Ultimate Hubberposted 7 years ago

    I am glad that you don't run the HubPages! Just kidding tongue

    On a serious note, this would look like hubpages is using stick instead of carrot to make people write more and more hubs which might give a bad impression to the website overall.
    Forums are for everyone to talk whatever they want unless it doesn't violate the TOS.

    We own our user profile and it is completely up to us whether we want to write a single hub or not in the first few months of joining the site.

    I am sure you know Ryankett here, he didn't write a single hub for about a year or so after joining. And see how good his hubs are performing now.

    1. Pcunix profile image93
      Pcunixposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I believe Ryan thinks this is a good idea.

  8. habee profile image95
    habeeposted 7 years ago

    Ryan didn't come on the forums just to start trouble, either - or to sell Ugg boots, bridal gowns, or call girl services.

    1. Reality Bytes profile image84
      Reality Bytesposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      But The Hubber community does not tolerate these people for long. I report every piece of spam I see.

    2. Ultimate Hubber profile image70
      Ultimate Hubberposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Where did I say that? Did you read my whole post? I just gave his name as an example that if HP staff is crazy enough to apply this limit then we might lose some good hubbers who will say goodbye to HP due to their stick theory.

      HP can not force any of us to write a word here!

      1. habee profile image95
        habeeposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        No, UH! I wasn't implying that you said that!
        I was just saying that Ryan is probably the exception. There are lots of trolls who come to the forums ONLY to start trouble, without ever saying anything nice to anyone OR ever bothering to write a hub.

  9. Randy Godwin profile image96
    Randy Godwinposted 7 years ago

    Some would merely publish 5 short hubs and then go on the forums to spam or troll!  I like the idea of cutting out this stuff but doing it effectively is a challenge!

    1. Pcunix profile image93
      Pcunixposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      If the hubs are junk, they will be flagged.  Even so, it provides a barrier and will keep out the true riff-raff.

      1. Randy Godwin profile image96
        Randy Godwinposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Not disagreeing with you at all, Pcunix!  But would the hubs be flagged before or after the author was allowed to post?  Also, how long after the hubs were written would the writer have to wait until the hubs were considered legit?  It's not as if the hubs are guaranteed a quick reading by someone who could pass muster on them.

        Then there is the problem with someone with multiple accounts.  I assume the additional account holders would also have to pass the test too, which should be no real problem for them.  But then. I have always been in favor of the multiples only being able to use one name for most of the forums!

        But as I said, I am fully in favor of some sort of process which can fairly assess the hubber's value to the site.

  10. Pearldiver profile image82
    Pearldiverposted 7 years ago

    I have been 'preaching' this for a year now... and in that time a couple of thousand Spammers, Idiots, Trolls, C&Ps and BS Accounts have passed through here... All doing Damage in some way! sad
    Good Luck with this.....
    Like Many Others.... I've been Banned here twice for defending myself against Trolls that HP have effectively Defended and Endorsed the actions of.. by punishing genuine hubbers that have rightfully taken exception to nothing people trying to negatively break down our writing and the good work that we have done for the site. (Now that's something that gets forgotten in the equation.. isn't it? hmm )

    1. Pearldiver profile image82
      Pearldiverposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Maybe you'd end up with people talking to themselves in the forums like this guy!

      Changing the forum formats is an Easy thing to do...
      The problem however, is not so much the changing, as it is that the right change... requires more transpirancy... which requires??? hmm

      Good luck.... 

      Seems Blank and Vacant Spaces have a say as well roll

      @ Reality Bytes.... If they had to attend a Boot Camp... they wouldn't need to do that would they... Their writing skills and knowledge would mean that they didn't need to ask such questions in the forums? hmm

      1. Reality Bytes profile image84
        Reality Bytesposted 7 years agoin reply to this




        A Boot Camp?

        If I had to join a "Boot Camp to take part in any section of the site, for me it would be taking the time to search for another site.

        I would think I was at an elitist site of intellectual snobs and I would have pursued another site.

        But some would think that would have been a good idea?

        1. Pcunix profile image93
          Pcunixposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          Only us liberal elite intellectual snobs smile

          1. Reality Bytes profile image84
            Reality Bytesposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            Then perhaps you would be happier creating your own platform so you can reign supreme and deem others as worthy.

            http://blog.citychurchyork.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/worship.jpg

            1. Pcunix profile image93
              Pcunixposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              Gosh, those look like nice people.  I like them much better than angry eagles.

              Noobody said anything about deeming others worthy.  We only want to put up a small barrier to discourage call girls, children, two a.m. drunks, lazy spammers and the very laziest of the sock puppets. 

              That is all.  No judgment.  No banning of libertarians, biblical literalists, alien abduction conspiratists or anyone else.  Just a tiny bit of work required before they can jump in and start yelling.  Is that really so terrifying to you?  Do you LIKE those people in the forums?

              1. Reality Bytes profile image84
                Reality Bytesposted 7 years agoin reply to this



                So as long as someone posts five hubs of whatever value content then they would have all the privileges?

                Incrementalism.

                Next step:  Your hubber score needs to be at such a number before you are allowed to post in the forums.

                Next: You must achieve so much traffic before.....

                How do you know the call girls, children, two a.m. drunks, lazy spammers and the very laziest of the sock puppets  will not just create the appropriate number of hubs full of drivel and five word poems in half an hour?

                1. Pcunix profile image93
                  Pcunixposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  Some will.  Most would not.

                  Do you LIKE those people?

                  Incrementalism: you want to reduce the size of the Federal government.  That will lead to no Federal powers and then no State powers and we will have ANARCHY!  Is that the way it works?

                2. aguasilver profile image80
                  aguasilverposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  "Next step:  Your hubber score needs to be at such a number before you are allowed to post in the forums."

                  Now THAT is a GOOD idea.... smile

                  1. aguasilver profile image80
                    aguasilverposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                    ...and the more I read everyone's comments, it seems more realistic.

                    I have no idea what score we start with, but it seems to me that it must be possible to set an achievable score that would confirm the fact that the hubber was here to write hubs, not just use the forum as a platform for their own agenda.

                    The whole concept of hubpages is to produce good fresh content and attract readers and revenue, the forums are a place to chill out or interact with friends and foes, they should be for hubbers, and keeping sock puppets, trolls and spammers out will improve the whole forum experience.

  11. IntimatEvolution profile image69
    IntimatEvolutionposted 7 years ago

    I actually have a hard time taking them seriously.  It is my opinion that they are taking advantage of hubpages good fortune, built from the typing hands of us hubbers who do write.

    Hubpages is probably okay with them coming in here and starting trouble because someday maybe they well start writing.  So it is a good business decision.  However, as writers I wish we would blacklist these posters, and ignore them all together.  That's my wish.

    1. Dave Barnett profile image58
      Dave Barnettposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      RABBLE ROUSERS!!!

  12. skyfire profile image75
    skyfireposted 7 years ago

    So next time some obama-hater or religious nutcase  enters the forum, they need to write spammy hub ? Because of this many good URL's are taken by spammers already. roll

    1. Pcunix profile image93
      Pcunixposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      If they really are spammers, why are they not flagged and removed?

      Can you give an example?

      1. skyfire profile image75
        skyfireposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Some spammers are already removed by staff. I think even you're aware of TKsensei with various incarnations like - Padrino, Jim hunter etc. One-liner sarcastic personal attack is his fav line of attack in forums. There are many other spammers in religious/political forums, they rarely contribute to site in positive way.

        1. Pcunix profile image93
          Pcunixposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          And Jim Hunter wrote how many hubs?  Two, was it?

          That is my point.  Keep that kind of garbage out.

          1. EmpressFelicity profile image76
            EmpressFelicityposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            AFAICT Jim Hunter is just someone whose political views happen to be different from your own.

            1. Randy Godwin profile image96
              Randy Godwinposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              Has Jim been banned?  His profile is still up!

              1. Pcunix profile image93
                Pcunixposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                Maybe.  Maybe he is busy being someone else. 

                Or maybe he too has other things to do every now and then.

                Even conservatives have lives in the real world.  Dark, suspicion filled, very fearful lives, but lives just the same smile

            2. Pcunix profile image93
              Pcunixposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              Perhaps.  But if he isn't six different people, would it be so onerous for him to write a few hubs? He certainly has a wide range of opinions.

              1. EmpressFelicity profile image76
                EmpressFelicityposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                Probably not, but...

                Here's my personal take on this issue.  This is an Internet forum.  On an Internet forum, you're always going to get sockpuppets, troublemakers and - dare I say it - people who are perfectly OK people, but who just happen to have completely different opinions to your good self and aren't afraid to express them.

                The more censorship and restriction you try and introduce, the more boring and samey things are going to get.  Which will reduce the popularity of the forum and for all I know, have a consequent adverse effect on HubPages' overall traffic and earnings.   

                I can therefore live with the occasional sockpuppet.  Sometimes they even make life here more interesting/fun.

                1. Pcunix profile image93
                  Pcunixposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  If you are implying that I am a perfectly OK person, you are wrong :-)

                  Anyway - yes, I don't disagree.    So if you don't like that, how about an "introduce yourself"  forum where you would have to post and survive being not identified as a spammer/call girl for some number of hours? 

                  And if you cannot even pass that basic test - that is, if you can't even be bothered to lie and make up a back story we can buy, then you can't post.

                  "Hi, my name is Tiffany and I know what boys like" wouldn't cut it, right?  If fifty of us don't flag it inside of an hour, let 'em post whatever and wherever they want.   

                  After all, if somebody has something valuable to say on the forums, surely they can provide a few paragraphs about themselves, can't they?

                  My bet is that would still get rid of a lot of them and would meet every objection, I think.

                  1. EmpressFelicity profile image76
                    EmpressFelicityposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                    So you're expecting people to provide an autobiography before they can be deemed "worthy" of full participation in the forums?

                    No thanks.  A lot of us don't work like that.  I know I don't - my forum posts tend to be opinion-based or strictly factual - I just don't do autobiography (except on very rare occasions and then only after I've been on a forum for a while and feel comfortable there). 


                2. PrettyPanther profile image83
                  PrettyPantherposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  I agree with this.  I've always been an advocate of the fewer rules the better when it comes to forums.  My experience has been that creating more rules only leads to more arguments and hassles over the interpretation of the rules.

                  1. EmpressFelicity profile image76
                    EmpressFelicityposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                    Amen, sista!! lol

              2. Reality Bytes profile image84
                Reality Bytesposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                And it is your business at all because?

                MYOB

                1. Pcunix profile image93
                  Pcunixposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  You misunderstood.  I was saying that if there were a 5 or 10 hub requirement, Jim certainly has enough opinions to meet that.

          2. skyfire profile image75
            skyfireposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            My point is that when we make it compulsory for spammers/trolls to write hubs when it comes to forum participation then chances of spammy hubs & losing URL's to spam is more.

            1. anonimuzz profile image81
              anonimuzzposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              A good point. I agree.

          3. Reality Bytes profile image84
            Reality Bytesposted 7 years agoin reply to this



            Jim Hunter is here and has published hubs.  Your comment was an attack on a hubber that is not even here to defend himself.


            BTW: who are you to determine who is garbage.


            http://hubpages.com/profile/Jim+Hunter

            1. Pcunix profile image93
              Pcunixposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              Jim's only purpose here seems to be to argue in the forums.  He only published anything because people kept accusng him of being a sock puppet.

              But at least he did publish, so you are correct.  And, given the amount of forum posts he does, he could certainly do more, and they might even be quite popular with other conservatives.  It is not "garbage".  I had forgotten that he did that.

          4. Pcunix profile image93
            Pcunixposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            Jim, I don't know why I said that.  I was thinking of the real junk and you got dragged in and I was wrong.

            You and I do not agree on much of anything and your debating style annoys me greatly, but it is not garbage and I was wrong to say that.

            I apologize.

          5. Sylvie Strong profile image59
            Sylvie Strongposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            He wrote 1 & 1/2 actually.  The whole hub was plainly tossed together with minimum effort.  The half-hub was a hub whining about how he was being forced to write a hub.  On the other hand, with 1.5 hubs, he would have sailed past your first screening level.  Jim was the highest posting hubber on the politics forum.  I suppose it is possible that someone would be a meaningful member of the hubber community without spending most of their time on hubs...but I thought we were a community of writers.  If you just come on here to surf the forums, you aren't necessarily a troll but you fit the profile.  Sometimes I think hubpages would be better if they eliminated the forums altogether.  It might help us focus.

  13. mega1 profile image80
    mega1posted 7 years ago

    without the 2 a.m. drunks these forum threads just wouldn't be fun at all!

    1. Randy Godwin profile image96
      Randy Godwinposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      "Drinks" or "drunks"?

  14. profile image0
    Website Examinerposted 7 years ago

    I'm too fatigued from flagging yesterday's multi-account spammer to even voice an opinion.

  15. EmpressFelicity profile image76
    EmpressFelicityposted 7 years ago

    I don't think it's a bad idea that forum posting should be restricted to people who have published at least one hub.  It will help to cut down on forum spam (a little), and it will mean that the occasional "what is a hub?" or "I've just joined HubPages. Now what do I do??" forum post will be a thing of the past.  (These members will just have to use a bit of initiative and read the Help section.  That's what it's there for, after all...)

    But I'd be very wary of introducing any more restrictions on posting other than that.

  16. anonimuzz profile image81
    anonimuzzposted 7 years ago

    I think that restriction would have little effect on the overall quality of the forum postings. Even people with several published hubs can snap from time to time and not contribute positively to a thread or, for some reason, offend another hubber. In that case, how different would it be to cause a mess before or after the first hub? I believe in sensible moderation, but not so much in those standard rules that only exist to create some sort of false sense of security.

    1. Randy Godwin profile image96
      Randy Godwinposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Hmmm!

    2. Pcunix profile image93
      Pcunixposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I'm not trying to get rid of discord and disagreement.  Again, I want to discourage call girls, children, drunks and the laziest of the spammers and sock puppets.

      1. anonimuzz profile image81
        anonimuzzposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Yes, I understand. But I really don't think that it would do much, in spite of your good intentions suggesting the rule. People that willingly waste so much of their time ruining the forums for everyone won't mind publishing one little hub of questionable quality and originality, as long as it grants them access to their favorite entertainment. One hub is not an insignificant sacrifice for good hubbers only, it is for the bad ones as well. They won't see it as a relevant obstacle.

        1. Randy Godwin profile image96
          Randy Godwinposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          Are you indeed new?  Or is this an alter ego?

          1. anonimuzz profile image81
            anonimuzzposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            Oh, I'm fake as a snake. The minute you think you charmed me, there goes my poison into your veins.

            1. Randy Godwin profile image96
              Randy Godwinposted 7 years agoin reply to this

              No wonder you disagree with the suggestion!  LOL!

              1. anonimuzz profile image81
                anonimuzzposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                Obviously! I don't wanna have to write (well, you can discreetly replace this with "steal") a darn hub and actually do something useful for this place while at it. I very much prefer annoying everyone around here, insulting the hubbers and their silly ideas. Isn't it so much more fun?

                1. EmpressFelicity profile image76
                  EmpressFelicityposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  lol lol

                2. Randy Godwin profile image96
                  Randy Godwinposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  Just for those who cannot write anything on their own!

                  1. anonimuzz profile image81
                    anonimuzzposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                    Ouch. Just because of that one, I'll publish a hub right now.

  17. tony0724 profile image60
    tony0724posted 7 years ago

    I do not think it right that we squelch anybody their right to say what they have to say. However like the general consensus here I agree that they should have some degree of a track record of work here. I agree some just come here to stir the pot and no other reason than that.

    1. luvpassion profile image61
      luvpassionposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I know I do, especially certain people. lol

      But then I'm not going to cry about it....mommy they can't play with us cause they ain''t smart as we is. lol

  18. Aficionada profile image89
    Aficionadaposted 7 years ago

    I admire the attempts to come up with a workable solution for this problem, but we're/you're still not quite there yet.

    Still thinking "out loud" : Would it help towards improving the situation, if brand new hubbers are not allowed to open a thread except in the Help and Extreme Hub Makeover sections?  Then later, since it is possible to participate responsibly as a Hubber with only one hub published, maybe the permission to open threads could be related to length of time one has been a member of HP or number of Hubs or forum posts, or some combination of these.

    However, having thought that out loud, I agree with what relache wrote - that we all need to take the initiative to flag as needed, and it would be wonderful if the staff would respond to the flags very quickly.  The times I have flagged, the response has been moderately quick, but I have also seen situations that looked like they needed a faster response.

    A different but related problem to me is the people who publish what seems to amount to an entire Hub as a forum post.  I admit, I have seen at least one example of this that I thought was done well and responsibly.  But most of the time, the poster needs to trim it down or split it up.  Would there be any advantage to having a limit to the size of a single forum post?

    1. Randy Godwin profile image96
      Randy Godwinposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      This would suit me fine, but some over in the Religion and Beliefs forum like to copy and paste whole pages of scripture for some reason!  I wish god would sue them for plagiarism sometimes!

  19. Lisa HW profile image80
    Lisa HWposted 7 years ago

    Most of the time I find the 2:00 a.m. drunks entertaining.  smile

    A lot of the rest of it, though, I'm not too thrilled with.  Maybe the idea of not allowing people to start threads could reduce some stuff.  As it is, you get this:   Someone starts a thread, "How do you clean a coffee cup?"  Then, if you click on their profile you see they have nothing on there but a link to their website that sells coffee-cup cleaner (or something like that.

    People who don't like the idea of some kind of limit seem to keep using the word, "worthy".  I don't think of it as "worthy" at all.  I think of it as whether a person is really a member of the HubPages community, and has joined with the overall aims of the site in mind.  I can't help but wonder if some of the Hubbers who don't bother with the forums don't bother because there can be a real lot of meaningless foolishness/trouble stirred up by people who aren't interested in the site or in writing.

    Not that everyone has to do this, but I was a Hubber for - like - a year (plus or minus a month or two) before I did more on the forums than ask one or two questions in the "help" section (about HubPages, itself).  By the time something caught my eye in the forums I didn't uncomfortable posting because I knew I'd been a "real" member (and community member) for a long time.

    A person here or there who just comes on to do something like stir up argument or else get attention for his own agenda isn't a big deal, but a high percentage does change the whole nature of the forum "community".  I mean - what is even the point of coming on here, pretending you're someone different every day a half?

    I guess it's a matter of asking, "Do people want the forums to be for anyone, regardless of whether or not they have any stake in the overall HubPages community, or any reason not to want to stir up trouble just for their own entertainment or gain; or do people want the forums to be something a larger percentage of Hubbers see as something that's "theirs too" - not something completely separate from the rest of HubPages.  I don't know...   Sometimes I just kind of think, "it is what it is, and it's all fine (sort of and a good part of the time)". Other times, I do think it's kind of unfortunate that so many Hubbers don't even bother with the forums because of the numbers of people who come to them either for their own personal entertainment or agenda.

    I'm not a big fan of rules and screening-out, but as it is now someone can set up a new sockpuppet in about five minutes/ten minutes, and be on here "doing whatever" within minutes.  Somehow, to me, it shouldn't be that quick and easy (and at the cost of having people who do give a rat's bottom about the site, and the other members, but who don't participate because sometimes so many don't.  Would "sincere" members still argue?  Sure.  But would they start arguments and trouble for fun?  No, because they wouldn't want to do too much to wreck their reputation as a Hubber and writer.  In a way, I, personally, don't really care who's on here "doing whatever".  If I step back from whether I care or not, though, and think of what I think would improve the overall "forum experience" for "real" members, I do think a reasonable limit here or there might be good.  There are times when "stake-less" forum posters pretty much take advantage of the site for their own purposes, and even make fools of "sincere" members.  I don't think that's all that great for business.

    1. Randy Godwin profile image96
      Randy Godwinposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      And if I may add, Lisa, these sockpuppets and hubless members have nothing to lose if they get banned from the site for insulting behavior.

  20. Anamika S profile image44
    Anamika Sposted 7 years ago

    I think not allowing Hubbers with less than 5 Hubs to participate in forums or ask questions can reduce spammers to a greater extent.

  21. EmpressFelicity profile image76
    EmpressFelicityposted 7 years ago

    There seem to be two separate approaches being proposed here:

    (1) prevent people from posting anywhere (except the "Help" or "Extreme Hub Makeover" sections) until they've published "x" number of hubs, and

    (2) prevent people from posting generally in the forums until they've "proved themselves to be real hubbers" in some sort of "get to know you" area of the forums.

    I don't actually have a problem with option (1).  It's transparent and while it won't eliminate spammers/trolls, it will at least cut down the level of spamming/trolling a bit.

    But option (2) is anything BUT transparent.  It depends entirely on a cosy coterie of people flagging those whose opinions they dislike.  Presumably the site's moderators would have the final say on who gets allowed "in" and who doesn't, but it still strikes me as a very underhanded way to run a forum.  No thanks.

    1. Anamika S profile image44
      Anamika Sposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Hmm...That makes sense!

  22. cindyvine profile image85
    cindyvineposted 7 years ago

    This is not the military high security area, let em in!

  23. profile image0
    Website Examinerposted 7 years ago

    EmpressFelicity, I agree with you about option (2). It seems to me quite artificial. Many Hubbers are not even comfortable with going to the forums in the first place. When suddenly they want to voice their opinion on something after maybe months of being quiet, they would have no access.

  24. habee profile image95
    habeeposted 7 years ago

    Randy and I often disagree, but he's never "underhanded or cowardly." I think his question was honest.

    1. Elpaso profile image59
      Elpasoposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      No No No
      I dont mean Randy at all! He did not start this witch hunt.

      1. Randy Godwin profile image96
        Randy Godwinposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        Whew!  That was close!

  25. Elpaso profile image59
    Elpasoposted 7 years ago

    AGAIN! BACK TO THE SUBJECT...
    Silly me,  since I dont live on the West Bank; it took me a day or so to realize the tactic at play here.  Speaking for myself; I will leave here when I think I have said all I have to say. When and if I feel like writing another hub, I will do it, according to my time table.

    For those of you who dont want to stay on topic; Did you hear that the Muslim cabbie was begging for his life while he was stabbed. And the only thing he wanted his potential Murderer to know was that he was a hard working man(as compared to a terrorist). Another innocent man that just wanted to make it home to his family.

    1. Sylvie Strong profile image59
      Sylvie Strongposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      You are being defensive and not particularly helpful.  This has nothing to do with your viewpoints.   I generally agree with your political views, but if you got kicked off the forums until you made a commitment to produce some hubs I would think it justified.

  26. Elpaso profile image59
    Elpasoposted 7 years ago

    If this thread is about some little girl and not about my forum defending the right of the Muslim People to build their Mosque; I would like to offer a big Ole "never mind" to you all. Just a case of bad timing. I hope.

  27. CkhoffmanK profile image59
    CkhoffmanKposted 7 years ago

    ugh.. that's a real elitist way to think and behave.

    Good thing HP doesn't run it this way.

  28. Misha profile image78
    Mishaposted 7 years ago

    This (in countless variations) has been suggested countless times before, and never implemented. I bet there is a reason it was not. smile

  29. blondepoet profile image75
    blondepoetposted 7 years ago

    Oh the ones that come here just to say a bit of rubbish grrrr...
    Now I for one have never talked rubbish in my whole life.

  30. sidpoudyal profile image54
    sidpoudyalposted 7 years ago

    OK, I finally read the entire thread. I didn't just skim through it. I read   EVERY   SINGLE   POST... Oh, boy. Alright, well I am on the side that less requirements is better for all. Let me tell you why.

    Setting high requirements will keep away potentially great community members. Yeah, we are hoping to filter out the unwanted visitors but every time you try to do this you will also lose out on great prospects. There is fact. Yeah, you could try to argue and say, "How difficult is it to write a few hubs" or "Well, if they couldn't do that then they wouldn't be great at all" or any other variation but this is simply not true. There has been evidence of several contributing members who would have never stuck around if less were offer or higher requirements were set. Losing even one great member is not worth it.

    Not to work the other side.

    Those who wish that there was higher requirements or some blocks in place before becoming a full-fledged member want this not because of some elitist mantra (well maybe but I'll leave that possibility out for now) but because they want to cut down on the spam (call it call girls, drunks, trolls or whatever but its essentially spam). Their thinking is that these spammers have few or no positive contributions to the site via hubs, commenting or what-have-you so requiring these stats to be met will cut down on spam. Wrong.

    Spammers have such low statistics because that is all that is required of them. Thinking that setting the bar higher will cut out the spammers is logical only to those who haven't been a part of any forums before. If you set the bar higher then the spammers will meet those requirements the only way they know how (spam) and as fast as they can. This only further adds to the spam. Before it may have been just in the forums but now it has spread deeper into more low quality (spam) hubs and useless comments.

    Trust me, no matter how high you set whatever requirement you do, if someone can pass the requirements then spammers can and will meet the requirements and find a way to automate. Its what they do. Even if you make it so that their is an actual cost to join the forum then you have really just invited more spammers because now a forum membership can be considered a commodity and sold. Spammers will mass create memberships, hubs, comments and start posting them for sale. They could set up a business dedicated to it and make some nice cash while you deal with even more spam than you have now. It has happened before, still goes on today and will continue to happen. Trust me.

    Also, these requirements will also just make it that much more difficult to get rid of spam. Now, if you see someone with 0 posts who just joined up you can easily tell that they are spamming, flag them and eventually the mods will delete the spam. Remember what was asked before, "How difficult is it to just write a few hubs", not at all right? Well spammers WILL create mass accounts if needed, put up 10 or however many hubs are needed per account, and then let the accounts just sit for a few weeks or even a month to gain some sort of seniority. Then, their accounts are just ripe for spamming and they will go to work or sell off the accounts and the buyers will really go crazy.

    In conclusion, setting up higher requirements, any more requirements will only increase the spam and make it more difficult to flag as such. I think I am going to publish this as a hub.

    You can find the hub here:

    http://hubpages.com/hub/Why-We-Can-Not- … t-HubPages

    Scroll down to the poll and quiz if you already read this entire post.

  31. Lisa HW profile image80
    Lisa HWposted 7 years ago

    As I said earlier, I'm fine with either approach.  I like cindyvine's "let-'em-in" thinking; but I don't see why some basic, minimum, requirement would be all that big a deal either.  Forums everywhere have that.

    1. sidpoudyal profile image54
      sidpoudyalposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      And forums everywhere get spammed. There is no reason to keep complaining about it (I know you are not but I think that is the general jist of this thread).

      These arguments for higher requirements, more moderation, more accountability from site owners come up all the time everywhere. Its really nothing new, ever.

      Thinking that you (or anyone) came up with THE solution to spam is not doing anything for the mods here. They will implement what they want when they want and more than likely they have already heard everything dozens of times. Haha, they have probably heard it so much that they consider THIS to be spam for THEM!

  32. profile image0
    selrachposted 7 years ago

    Pcunix I understand where you are coming from with your question,but I have read this entire thread WHERE ARE THE CALL GIRLS?

    lol

    1. profile image0
      DoorMattnomoreposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I guess they are busy at the moment.

      1. profile image0
        selrachposted 7 years agoin reply to this

        It,s only 1pm and not even the weekend they can,t all be busy.

        1. profile image0
          DoorMattnomoreposted 7 years agoin reply to this

          putting on makeup?

    2. Reality Bytes profile image84
      Reality Bytesposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I think they were scared away by this thread.

 
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