If someone is of sound mind, meaning they understand the consequences, should they be allowed to kill themselves?
I had someone close to me die slowly and painfully.
I think it's right for society to help people fix their depression, if they have it.
But I also think that people should have the right to die quickly and painlessly, if the alternative is horrible.
Why should our pets have the right to be "put out of their misery" and we are not?
Really good point! I saw a program on assisted suicide and the couple doing it were so relieved they were putting an end to the mans (husband of the couple) suffering. It was all very well organized.
personally, i wouldn't allow any kind of suicide, regardless of the situation. i call that immense respect to life. however, if an individual has decided for himself to end a miserable health condition, i will not insist myself. but i will express my mind and explain my reasons for opposing. the least i can do is respect that person's choice.
I totally agree. If I am in pain and that is all I am feeling I'd like that assistance. If I lost my mind to Alzheimers like my grandmother did and I wouldn't even know what was going on in my life and all I became was an imposition to my children, I'd rather be gone. I wouldn't want my children to see me deteriorate thru any disease if I could help it.
Do you just have a problem loving people or do you just not care about people or what?
of course they should. what kind of twisted answer is "No".
I own my body, and the government can't take away my rights.
Only a true tyrant could make suicide illegal. This INCLUDES any gods that might object.
I feel that Americans have developed a very perverse view of death. We have the technology to keep brain-dead people alive indefinitely at a cost of thousands or even tens of thousands of dollars a day. This is basically the default healthcare option unless the patient has specified otherwise (which they obviously need to do before becoming brain-dead).
People who are very sick but still have their mental capabilities are forced to choose between expensive treatments that will just prolong their suffering while keeping them alive and draining their life savings or to reject all treatments and die a slow and painful death. The quick and painless option is only available if they do it themselves. If anyone assists them, that person can be prosecuted for murder. Who is more sick, the person who is suffering and wants a quick and painless death, or the government that makes laws saying it's murder if anyone tries to assist this person?
Imagine how much lower health care costs would be if we gave people more compassionate options for end-of-life care.
People who are very sick but still have their mental capabilities are forced to choose between expensive treatments that will just prolong their suffering while keeping them alive and draining their life savings or to reject all treatments and die a slow and painful death.
Nothing could be further from the truth. Hospices in the U.S., Canada, the U.K., and probably many other civilized societies have provided the terminally ill a third way -- symptom relief from their pain and a way to spend their final months in their homes surrounded by friends or family with 24/7 access to an RN who will visit them in the middle of the night if necessary. If they need care that can't be provided at home (not a long-shot at a cure), they can be admitted to a home-like inpatient unit that allows them to bring items from home, nearly unlimited visits from family & friends, possibly even visits from their pets, and opportunity to socialize with other residents. And they have the opportunity to prepare for death in whatever that means to them.
I recently visited a hospice for a college assignment and I've never seen a more caring health care facility in my life. I also have 2 friends whose parents received hospice care at the end of their lives. Both said hospice was the best possible thing for their parent and themselves. One went so far as calling the hospice nurses "angels".
While I appreciate the work hospice does for patients and their families, not everyone wants to live out the final months of their life drugged out on painkillers. They deserve to have a choice.
DB, I am with you on this. You are right health care is ridiculous. I know from experience, having to have dealt with terminally ill family members, me having been sick for 3 and a half years and no one knowing what was the matter with me, my husband having a heart attack, the few options that have been offered and the expenses. THE EXPENSES, OH MY GOODNESS!!!
Even having health insurance it was disgusting and it sucked. Not even a day home my husband received a call from the hospital stating that he needed to pay $20,000. dollars ASAP. I got so angry, took the phone and told the lady calling, "Are you trying to send him back to the hospital, couldn't you people wait at least a damn week to call, he just got home." My My My, thats health care for you...
Like I said before, I'd rather have that capacity to say good bye to my children and loved ones that remain and go on my own terms then have to be paying out of my a$$ or have my children get into debt to be kept alive thru crazy meds that do not heal but prolong my suffering and my childrens suffering seeing me that way.
WOW, what a run on sentence! Woo. Sorry for venting. Its just so personal for me...
They are not "drugged out." Hospice patients are given medication that enables them to be lucid, but pain free. Nearly always, the hospice patient prefers to let death come when it will..... This gives them ample time to prepare for death, to say their goodbyes, to forgive and to be at peace. The people who want to take their lives through suicide are either very depressed or very controlling---this is a statistical fact that is known by the medical community, but more fully in hospice.
Hospice is not a cure-all in situations such as this. You are talking about the TERMINALLY ill. Hospice doesn't come in and take care of people like me, who began having symptoms at age 20, diagnosed at age 25, and here I am 22 years later at age 42 suffering from bilateral Trigeminal Neuralgia (aka the Suicide Disease - where 50% of sufferers kill themselves within the first 3-5 years). There is no cure. I was diagnosed many years earlier than most. It becomes more frequent & more severe with age. I just recently was also diagnosed with Occipital Neuralgia...similar, just another part of my head. Already been through one failed brain surgery. I'm sorry, but until you have been forced to live a hellish pain 24/7 year after year for decades that even Morphine at times doesn't touch...don't preach. You are in no position to even open your mouth. Try living that hell for just five minutes, perhaps you would have compassion for human suffering. It amazes me when a mangy mutt is treated better than a human. Shouldn't all life be treated in a humane way? With dignity and the best care possible? I pray nobody would deny you or your loved one those things if it were you in those shoes.
It depends on if it's euthanasia. If the alternative is a long, painful battle against a disease that has no cure, then I say they should be allowed to decide their own fate.
It is not fair to make someone with no hopes of survival wither away just because it's immoral to take one's own life. If they are sane and understand the consequences, it's their life. Let them go if that's their choice, instead of torturing them by making them adhere to what you think is right.
People have the right to end their misery. Why does the church and society insist this is wrong. Could it be that the church and our society prey off the sufferings of others and get rich by doing so. As do the so called people who are "professionals" that charge$175 for 50 minutes of listening to someones pain and suffering.
To all those people who just jump to the conclusion that it is wrong to commit suicide think about how much more wrong it is to let someone suffer and be tortured or abused.
Did'ya see "Soylent Green?"
Of course one can be of "sound mind" and want to end life.
The way it was done in "Soylent Green" was beautiful and the purpose was determined by a man with a "sound mind."
Euthanasia should be legal in every state.
I think it only becomes an issue if you DON'T succeed.
No!This is because life ultimately belongs to God, the being who gave it.
wow - pretty intense question. i don't think anyone should be "allowed" to commit suicide... more often then not people just do it and there is no way to stop that. pretty sad, and selfish. the issue people need to focus on is not suicide but what lead them to that point - why are they so unhappy, etc and get counseling to want to live.
I don't think so. It is a punishable offence in my country if someone survived after trying to commit suicide.
technically if the suicide is "successful" it doesn't matter whether or not suicide is "allowed" as you cannot punish or prosecute a dead person (with any real impact.)
That aside, I think suicide should be allowed, obviously not encouraged or suggested, but allowed.
In response to those who say someone of sound mind wouldn't take their own life, I couldn't disagree more. Since you obviously don't agree with compassionate or assisted suicide, I won't waste my time arguing with you. But what about the person who chooses to die to save someone else (this is still suicide - just a more culturally accepted version)?
If the person is an informed, competent, consenting adult, it's none of my damn business whether he or she want to cut his hair, cut his skin, or cut his own throat,
Of course, if it's someone I know, I'll probably try to convince him not to kill himself. Most problems are temporary, whereas death is permanent*. Personally, I find suicide in the face of heartbreak or failure or other disappointment (painful though it may be) to be rather self-indulgent, but I'm not going to try to force someone to live if they really really want to die.
The right of an individual to control his or her own life seems to mean very little if the individual isn't allowed to end his life at a time of his own choosing.
The only reason we're even debating this question is that most people would rather live and can't fathom the possibility that someone else might genuinely not want to keep living. We assume that anyone who wants to die is either overreacting to a temporary inconvenience, not in their right mind, or merely trying to get attention.
It's the same reason we debate whether to let gay people get married. Most people don't want to marry a member of their own sex, so we assume that anyone who does is some kind of weirdo and must be stopped, both for their own good and the good of humanity.
Interestingly, according to the guy from the Red Cross who taught my last CPR recertification, the law (at least in Michigan) says that if a patient refuses treatment with the words, "Just let me die," the responder must assume the patient is irrational and must treat him in spite of his refusal. But if the same patient in the same circumstances refuses treatment with the words, "Leave it in God's hands," the responder must stop treatment immediately.
*Physical death on this plane of existence is permanent; we have no proof of reincarnation, the existence of ghosts, or any sort of afterlife. I happen to believe in an afterlife, but not because of any scientific proof of one.
people who have committed suicide successfully cannot be punished. therefore, who are you asking? is this question more for people that assist them? you can walk out of a hospital against medical advice and simply sign a paper knowing that they advise you not to so in many ways we already allow them to do so.
I believe that if someone feels that they have come to a place where they believe suicide is their only option then who are we to tell them to keep suffering. The only way to say their choice isn't the only choice is by agreeing to assist them in changing their circumstances.
Hi Tritrain, You ask the question as if there is a 'Dead On Way' to keep a person from suicide, when this is so far from the truth it's not even nice to mention. The person who is considering suicide is in a dark & painful way of thinking, that must be contoured. As far as assisted suicide, it is more than humane to work willingly with the individual for their peace of mind. (And this is SO controversial) There should be some form of a detrimental illness of condition that the individual who is requesting suicide assistance, otherwise it is not in the best interest of the individual. But then again, very controversial and many people on the face of the earth think: Selfishly is the way to be.
Yes. When the pain gets so great a person can't stand it.
Trying to escape pain doesn't mean you don't have a
My older sister had cancer of the pancreas. The most painful cancer with no cure or relief.
She put a gun in her mouth, pointed it toward her brain, and shot herself.
When you have no quality of life, no hopes or dreams, what good is life?
Suicide is self-murder and, murder of any kind outside of the legal system is unlawful... People who want to commit suicide can see no other way out of their situation.... no matter how dark, there is always a way out..
So, No! Suicide should never become permissible.
What do you mean by "allowed"? That word alone in your question is very troubling. By asking if we should be "allowed" to take our own lives, you are insinuating that we are under the control of someone-or something. If I felt it was time for me to go then yes, under those circumstances, I would then be "allowed" to take MY OWN life. Who would I actually have to ask permission from? My mom and dad? In a sense, they are the one's who created me. However, I don't actually "belong" to them as I am over the age of 18. So to answer your question, in my opinion, yes, people should, and ARE "allowed" to kill themselves. Whether if it is the "nicest" thing to do, no of course not. People will be sad, yada yada, but regardless we are in control of our own lives and bodies so if we feel it is our time, then so be it.
What if the person otherwise faces a slow, painful death due to disease?
Then obviously they are not of sound mind, because of what is happening to them is influencing their decision. Pain? Can be dealt with. What bothers them the most is the fact that they already know they are going to in fact die. It's not really the pain, but the knowing.
i believe until you face something similar we cannot say that these people are or are not of sound mind. making a decision that you dont morally agree with doesnt mean a person is not of sound mind. do you think people that have sex before marriage arent of sound mind because you dont agree with them morally? what about someone that is having an affair outside of their marriage? are they of sound mind? what is your rational for not being of sound mind?
there are some things for some people worst than death. you may not agree but i feel its a personal thing. many people that commit suicide do so without sharing that information with anyone anyway.
there are people that commit suicide that may not have if they had received mental health assistance, but i do believe there are rational healthy people that may make the decision to take their own lives
Really? I hope you never have to feel the pain.
My sister could not stand her pain. There was no medicine that relived it. She had no fear of death just that she would live longer and have to put up with the pain.
All the patients in the hospital are concerned about their pain, and usually don't think about death.
But, you are the expert on everything and know exactly what motivates people.
No so, Cagsil. Assisted suicide can be the greatest gift one can give to those living in constant pain and misery with a terminal disease, and unassisted suicide can at times be no different.
Actually, it is true. Regardless of what you think.
Untrue again, simply because of my other post.
Well, I won't split hairs with you. I simply know, from personal experience with the death of a loved one. Pain is not always controllable (not without drugging the subject into a stupor) and when death stands at your door there are times when it is best to simply accept his visit rather than fight it. I would far rather die at home, surrounded by familiar sights and family, than in a soul-less hospital fighting misery and seeing little but strangers.
In such a case the choice is plain to me, and it is not the knowledge of imminent death that would drive that choice. It's why I have a living will.
Hey Wilderness, I have personal experience watching my father die from Cancer, which ate up every organ in his body between his neck and waste. For some reason, it was unable to eat away at his heart. Ironically.
He suffered extreme pain when he wasn't on morphine. He wasn't drugged into a stupor, as you put it. And, died in the hospital.
That's very sad Cagsil, I'm very sorry to hear that.
I'm sorry. It was my father as well I referred to. He was given perhaps 2 weeks to live in the hospital, taking dialysis every other day and in pain and hallucinations from the drugs. He requested in a lucid period to go home, knowing and understanding that it would shorten his life.
My siblings and I granted his wish, removing him from the machines keeping him alive and taking him home. Once there, comfortable and surrounded by his wife and children, he died quietly in less than 12 hours. I will always believe that he fought the fight long enough to go home and that was all he wanted out of life. I will also always be proud and happy that his wife and children had the strength to give that gift to him.
Whether we murdered our father or he suicided is a moot point; his premature death was at his request and it was the right choice for him. There are times and situations where another few hours or days of life is only burden and not happiness.
I really don't intend to quibble over words, but I think there are times when we look at something sort of upside down. From what you describe, it sounds to me as if your father allowed his death to occur at the right time, rather than allowing others to prolong it. It doesn't sound like a "premature" death to me at all, and I don't mean a scintilla of disrespect in saying that.
My point exactly. His death was not premature even though his life could have been prolonged by several weeks. He chose the time and there was no doubt in anyone's mind that he chose correctly.
Kudos to Wilderness and Cags for honesty - and for speaking with authority from personal experience, though they disagree. My father died of Lou Gehrig's disease. There is something VERY wrong with prolonging a life when the person wants to die with dignity before he's a doped up extension of the machines that support an existence without quality.
That said, I am opposed to the government or insurance companies or doctors deciding when the quality of life is nil. It has to be the patient or his family operating with full knowledge. As a society, we are freaky about death and it's time we grew up and discussed it objectively in advance with family because it is inevitable.
I obviously agree with you. The concept, however, is fraught with danger and it is not something simply to be left to the person or family.
An insane person (especially one temporarily so from grief, or pain, or depression etc.) should not make the decision. If a family member makes it, is that decision out of love or for an inheritance or just for hate? Is the family member just tired of taking care of Mom or Dad? Doctors might be the best resort, but few doctors are capable of doing that on a daily basis and those that are capable are probably not to be trusted anyway.
I can see and understand the huge possibility for terrible misuse of assisted suicide but still believe strongly that it can be absolutely the right decision.
But doctors can't do it can they!
I see a horrible minefield emerging from a legalised assisted suicide,it has to remain a crime but perhaps a change in the law to allow acquittal for justified homicide.
In the UK even a 100 years ago elderly people and children were murdered for convenience and the insurance money, we can't go back to those days.
Perhaps rather than using the courts to decide if the assisted suicide was justified they should be used to decide if assisted suicide should be allowed.
I don't know,it's well past my bedtime and the brain isn't too clear!
The standard, as I understand it, allows a doctor to take a terminal patient off life support if he's directed by written instructions ( a living will or advance directive) or by direction of the family where no written instructions indicate the will of the patient.
Key points - the patient is terminal. The instructions are beyond question. Without those directions, the doctors will keep the patient alive until something quits. Which brings us to a statistic no politician will discuss. A third of the costs (on average) for a medicare patient are run up in the last year of life. I don't have the answer, but we aren't even having the discussion at a political or policy level.
I have an opinion - if someone in a coma wants to be kept 'alive' by every means until the flesh rots off their bones, but the heart keeps ticking - that's their right. And Medicare should pay. But not me.(shudder) And I think everyone needs to look at the issue of their own death in advance and give instructions. Failure to do that should put them in a 'default' mode and the doctors will apply a standard set of rules.
Good point. The standard set of rules is to do everything possible to keep the patient alive. That is the hospital's legal responsibility.
That's why EVERYONE should have an advanced medical directive.
This is a great thread. Some excellent arguments.
I think the best one (mentioned my a couple of people) is
Why should we be able to euthanize our pets and it's compassionate but not our human loved ones?
Life is precious, but without quality of life it ain't worth squat.
What you are suggesting is already fairly common practice (although I see some support for laws that would allow a doctor to ignore instructions if it violates their personal ethics).
Actual assisted suicide goes far beyond this, though, and it is there that the dilemma really occurs. "Terminally ill" could mean a year or more away, and the patient might not be on anything more than a few medications. Nevertheless, deteriorating quality of life (pain, immobility, loss of bodily control, etc.) can cause a person to simply wish to die. That a few rare individuals can live through this with zest (Steven Hawkins and Christopher Reeves come to mind) does not change the fact that for many it just isn't worth the massive effort required. Age can play a major part also, especially when coupled with physical problems.
What about these people? Should they be allowed to actively suicide, and if so, should someone be allowed to help them? Dr. Kevorkian opened a can of worms that society needs to address.
Here's an anecdote for you. My father-in-law is a social worker. Once upon a time one of his clients was a young man, an athlete, who'd had an accident that left him paralyzed from his neck downward. One of the standard questions that my father-in-law had to ask was this: "Have you had any thoughts of suicide?"
The young fellow replied, "Of course I've had thoughts of suicide. But if I was able to kill myself, I wouldn't want to, would I?"
My father picked youth in Asia in the hospital for his death, it was the right thing for him.
i agree with wilderness' post. every situation is different. you want to think that they have the people you care about and love are strong enough to endure. is that us being selfish? we want them to hang on? ask yourself that.everyone is responsible for his own soul.
well yes, was going to say why allow someone who is going through a chemical problem to make decisions based on a chemical problem. medicate the poor person and lets see if he still wants to die.
That simply is not true. You obviously have never experienced chronic excrutiating pain that lasted for decades. This is exactly why you should not judge or make ignorant statements.
How in the world are you going to prohibit them from killing themselves? Make it a felony with a capital punishment?
It's an unenforceable law already in place in America.
Suicide is not an American law as a whole.
Each state sets their own laws concerning suicide..
Washington, and Oregon, allow physician assisted suicide.
North Carolina, Utah, Wyoming,Ohio, have done away with the common law of crimes and do not have statutes making assisted suicide a crime. : It is not a crime in these states.
Knew that was coming
Sorry its not a laughing matter.
Yes, that's what I was wondering.
It's like asking if a person should abuse someone.
Did anyone see Clint Eastwood's 'Million Dollar Baby'?
This may look like an open and shut issue if you are in good health. There are a lot of aspects to deciding when to throw in the towel, especially who decides and under what conditions.
I humbly believe (ehem! ) that we should let every individual be responsible for their own lives..besides, as I quote from the above post that "A person of sound mind wouldn't take their own life.", that means the world can eliminate those.....who are brave enough to give space for the new breed, just let them fill-up the donor card first.
The only time I can think of that a person should NOT be allowed to make a life-ending decision, is if that person is depressed, or mentally disabled.
People in severe pain and people with terminal illness do have the right to decide to end their misery.
No one has a right to deny end of life/end of suffering to a sufferer when their personal beliefs don't agree.
the catholic in me screams no,...
the lover of personal freedom in me screams yes,..
the snarky little ass in me wants to know if we could create a permit procces for it, protecting the mentaly ill and clinicaly depressed from killing themselves,.... then charge a nominal fee for the back ground check, purchase price for the suicide permit,... i mean, in all reality, if the state could make a buck off of this it would already be doing it, thats why we have a lottery.
Hey stclair, from what I know- state and federal government already get a benefit($$$) amount from death.
the dying create an economy all thier own, thats evident in long term care.
the state can tax the estate of the departed... thats true,... but imagine,... theyve missed out on taxing the act itself all this time,... i'm surprised at the oversight.
Really, it's not oversight. State and Federal get "death" credit, in $$$ amount, for each person.
you cant get mental health for free so how can we afford to evaluate if someone is mentally ill. then what? you are mentally ill and need help but since we cannot afford to treat you, go on your way. that is another issue and another hub. anyway....what do you propose we do with that situation. you are not of sound mind and you cannot kill yourself. now what?
I agree with my catholic friend, dying and living is not for you to decide, this is God's decision, I personally think this is a cowardly act and people who want the easy way out of their troubles turn to this.
Boy did you open up a can worms with that statement.
i work in long term care, and i see every day why some will make the arguement for assisted suicide,... its heart breaking,... but personaly believe that its not realy life that modern medicine has prolonged, but meerly the act of breathing,.... i wouldnt dream of telling one of my residents to kill thenselves,... nor would i help them do so, but i also believe that they have a right to stop recieving the care that prolongs thier breathing rather than thier life
the tery schievo thing was just wrong, to withhold nutrition and hydration is unforgivable,... but many recieve a bevey of medications to prolong "breathing", only to recieve even more to counteract the side effects of the first batch,... i've watched the seemingly small act of swallowing 40-50-70 pills a day become more than the person can bear without gagging,... many times they state that thier tired if all of it,... several have frofessed a deap beliefe in god, and a wish to put it in his hands, to leave off the treatment, the meds, the apatite stimulants,.... only to have family or guardian step in and decide for them that this is not acceptable,...
those who hang on out of fear i pitty, and those who are hung onto out of selfishness i pitty all the more.
But why should the beliefs of a God I don't believe in be used to force me to stay alive against my will?
I beg to differ. I am, what I like to refer to myself as, a re-formed catholic. I went to catholic school and church EVERY time the wind blew. But then I grew up and developed a mind of my own. There are many many aspects of 'catholicism' I disagree with and 'suicide' is one of them. If it is up to God how we live and die then what is his reasoning for letting someone suffer excruciating pain for long periods of time? It seems to me that if someone is driven to suicide due to their physical pain, then God gave them more than they can handle. As far as the easy way out? Do you really think it's an easy decision to leave this world and all the people we love?
EASY WAY OUT? You live with a chronic pain illness that gets more severe with time, no cure. So far in year 22 in a disease that is refered to as "the Suicide Disease". The worst pain known to mankind. Don't talk to me about being a coward when I've toughed out 22 years of something 50% of sufferers commit suicide over in the first 3-5 years. If suicide is what I choose one day, I am hardly a coward. I've been a fighter since age 20. I've done something I doubt YOU could do. Don't EVER call others names until you have walked in their shoes. That only makes you a HYPOCRITE.
This subject falls into the "not your business" category.
As in, mind your own. (Not talking at anybody specific.)
It's ridiculous to deny an end to a person's suffering, all the while clamoring about morality.
Yes, I feel as thought it is a personal choice that government should have 0 say in. Especially when it comes to cases such as euthanasia.
If someone would rather not suffer, than by the grace of god...do not make them suffer.
That's a very complicated issue. As far as euthenasia goes it has been used in a few cases in the US (see Terry Shiavo), and I belive it is warranted in some cases. Suicide is a diffent issue, and if someone is considering it they should get help immediately.
Absolutely. I don't think people should be encouraged to kill themselves, and support should always be given, but ultimately it is their life and their body. They can do what they wish with it.
The saddest part of this subject is that so many people take advantage of other people's pain and profit from it such as churches and psychologists and therapists and pharmaceutical companies
If someone I knew who was close to me were to commit suicide I would feel guilt and remorse for not knowing that they were in such pain and I didn't do anything. I would miss them.
So I don't take this subject lightly but I fully believe that it is a person's right to end his own life. It's the people left behind who suffer the loss, but if someone ends their life they are ending their suffering so their spirit (which I do believe in) can be free of human suffering.
For those offering religious reasons for not committing suicide, I ask you to cite scripture regarding suicide.
You won't find it.
What a tough question!! I kidnapped my father from a nursing home after his doctor's put him there to die with strangers. I watched as the cancer ate away his organs and expelled them from his body in the most vile, putrid way imaginable. I listened to his constant moaning as he lay helpless in his death throes. Had he been able to speak and ask me to end his suffering, I would have done it in a heartbeat. Fortunately, he passed on his own in the comfort of my home surrounded by those he dedicated his life to. Hell YES!! You should be able to end your life on your own terms.
I'm sure there's a reason behind everything. God doesn't present the challenges without knowing that human can't take it.
I've leaned toward supporting voluntary assisted suicide in cases of terminal illness since I learned that such a thing existed, but ironically the thing that confirmed my support was euthanizing our beloved family dog. She was elderly and had been failing for some time, but took a dramatic turn for the worse in the same week my father had surgery for a congenital heart problem. Because we were spending so much time at the hospital with him, we didn't immediately notice how bad her condition was and she was in terrible pain for almost two days, which we still feel awful about.
We couldn't have moved her, so fortunately the vet was able to make a house call, and she died in her favorite spot on the kitchen floor, surrounded by her people, as gently as if she were falling asleep. Trying to comfort us, the vet said something I'll never forget, "She'll die more peacefully than most people."
Why should an animal be allowed to die with more comfort and grace than a human being?
The animal comparison reminds me of the old joke;- A vet goes to see his doctor and tells him he thinks vets are superior to doctors, they can't question their patients but have to use their knowledge to diagnose. He challenges his doctor to work with the same constraints and the doctor accepts.
He gives the patient a thorough examinations at the end of which he writes a prescription, hands it to the patient and tells him that if it doesn't work, come back in a fortnight and he'll put him down.
Sorry, night all.
It's someone's own business, own body, own life to keep or not but making it illegal - causing financial trouble to those left behind, causing the one considering suicide to know they will end up in a mental hospital if they don't 'succeed' - is a good idea anyway. That way, it makes it even more of a major big deal. It's good that it has a stigma of failure too just to make someone think again of trying to find another way to cope. All this only because they may change their mind and discover the horror of their life/memories/pain can be fixed. If it can't, they'll go regardless.
i think that after one person commit suicide, no one can bring him back from death and judge cuz it was wrong!
Should people BE ALLOWED to commit suicide?
You mean like they're ALLOWED to have abortions?
Are you talking about a law?
I don't think anybody can actually stop a person who is committed to committing suicide.
I suppose if it was actually ILLEGAL to commit suicide a person could be locked and restrained if it could be proved they made an unsuccessful attempt.
A Dying Trend
The four NYU students who’ve jumped to their deaths grimly illustrate new research: Suicide can be a fad.
http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/trends/co … e/n_10105/
Why does it matter to anyone else if a person commits suicide? Beyond a duty to assist the person, make every attempt to help them (including helping them to change their mind) - then what does it matter.
How can anyone think it is right to interfere in another persons life and choices in any way. More importantly why does it matter. Placing too much 'value' on such lives is just a distraction from the organised murder and terror that goes on all around every day.
Those who squeal about these things seem to always be the same people who are so gleeful when their country murders a few women and children in some far away place because maybe someone their government did not like might have been at the party.
The double standards and rank hypocrisy stinks like the crap it is.
When a person kills themselves without warning it leaves years of suffering for anyone who cared about them. Often that is the point. The suicide is angry and wants to hurt not just themselves but their significant others.
Medically assisted suicide to end suffering is entirely different.
There is emotional preparation for those who will be left behind and an understanding that it is a relief for the person who will die. It is not an act of violence.
I can't believe people are even debating this issue.
of course you are allowed to kill yourself. you own your body, and you are allowed to do with your property as you wish.
Sure, it might be MORALLY wrong, but there's no way in hell a government can claim the power to make such an act illegal.
The only reason we're even debating this question is that most people would rather live and can't fathom the possibility that someone else might genuinely not want to keep living. We assume that anyone who wants to die is either overreacting to a temporary inconvenience, not in their right mind, or merely trying to get attention.
It's kind of analogous to the gay people getting married argument. Most people don't want to do it, so we can't imagine why anybody else would, either, and assume that something must be wrong with anyone who wants it. People are so self-centered sometimes....
I think that it is alittle unfair on the ones who do not suceed.
I also think that it is very hard to seperate the genuine suicide intent and those who do it for cause and effect & make a half hearted ttempt knowing tht they will be found. I think that hardens peoples out look on suicide victims to a big extent which fails to help potential victims. Especiaaly those who get bullied, people in general seem to not want to really face how these experiences really do have a horrible effect on peoples lives and cause them to go to a desperate place.
I think that it is not something you could prohibit or prevent. but maybe better councelling services, phone lines and mental health support could be better provided for, I hardly think that being consolled and put on a waiting list if you are considering suicide is going to make you reconsider, and also humans are not at all understanding really towards things like this, infact, most look make and then in hindsight recognise vital signs that could have prevented, but at the actual time were happy to over look and be optomistic!!!
This is a very touch subject for me. I lost a father to suicide 6 years ago and the wound is still fresh. I am unsure of the question you ask only because I have never tied suicide with any sort of legal penalization. In my opinion, if someone is to the point of killing themselves, then they are not in their right mind. No matter who you are, no one wants to die. However, those who do or feel like they are better off dead, should not be penalized, but helped. This is a very deep topic and should be handled as such. Why even ask this type of question? I am not angered by the question at all. I am just confused as to what brought this topic on..
"Should people be allowed to commit suicide?"
For certain medical situations; yes, that option should absolutely be available.
However, those who have committed suicide because of relationship problems or economic circumstances were wrong to do so.
I agree. Someone who kills them-self over a relationship is very rash, because time would have healed the mental pain.
What do you suggest as a punishment for those people who committed suicide for the wrong reasons?
This seems like the perfect thread for this.
A story. I saw this happen. This is the short version:
Poor dumb smuck across the street got drunk and called a friend. He told the friend that he was thinking about committing suicide. You will not believe what happened next.
I’ve changed my mind as to posting it here. See my next hub. Sorry.
i am waiting for your next hub crazily..man u have created hell suspense
Damn. The email I sent that described the whole thing in all it’s miserable detail was years ago. It’s on my old computer. That is going to be a pain in the butt to resurrect. Stay tuned. This could take awhile. This sucker has zero revenue potential. I shall only pursue it as long as I am in my current mood.
This project has gone back to the backburner where it belongs; too depressing. Here are some tidbits though. The story includes:
Him getting a $1700 ambulance bill for transporting a perfectly healthy, sober, non-suicidal human being a total of 15 miles.
He had a dog. Since the county had locked up the owner, there was no one to take care of it. So the county put him in the pound. When the owner went to claim him 2 days later, the county demanded $85. The poor guy didn’t have the money. So after the statutory 2 weeks the county kills his dog.
And there is so much more…
The bottom line is that the government is not your friend.
The other bottom line is that if you are thinking of committing suicide, don’t tell anyone. Because if you do, what I described is exactly what will happen to you. And that’s the way it is. Welcome to America Year 2011.
Make up your mind, first he's drunk and then he's sober! Come on, pick one or the other, no way he could be drunk and sober at the same time.
WHAT! You're kidding me, that's incredible.
Yep, I saw the whole thing.
And then as all the other stuff the county did to him happened, he told me all about. I never did find out what the hospital billed him though.
Why didn't he just refuse to go?
Give me the good old National Health Service.
I just thought that I should make it a matter of record that he departed for locations unknown quite sometime ago and is no longer my neighbor. I hope all is well with him.
Assisted suicide for the diseased or suffering. Absolutely, 100% YES YES YES. If you say no to this, you obviously need to rethink it.
Watch the movie starring Al Pacino called "You Don't Know Jack".
As for a person that is in the dumps or depressed.. Them killing themselves can be corrected, but I'd say yes. If they will kill themselves, what will stop them from killing someone else before?
That was a good movie. Very thought provoking.
And Al Pacino is so good you forget it's him.
One of the better movies I have seen in a while. I just remember people calling him a quack when I was a kid. Never really got why he was killing people!! As I grew up it all started making sense. And that movie removed all doubt.
My father shot himself at the age of 85 because he was tired of suffering. He was also tired of wearing my mom out - she was taking care of him. I totally understand why Dad fired the gun.
I agree with your dad Habee, suffering and causing the suffering of others when alive would be unbearable for a person who felt deeply about his loved ones.
I don't know what your father went through, but I can see solid justification when there are no alternatives available.
Should people be allowed to commit suicide?
Well I guess that would all depend on the context.
If we are talking about a distraught teenager who has just broken up with a boyfriend and thinks it's the end of the world, I would say no.
If we are talking about someone who has lived a long life and doesn't want to live tied to a bunch of tubes and have a hose stuck down their throat to do their breathing for them I would have to say, go for it!
He did refuse. He was sober. And he no longer had any interest in committing suicide.
However, in California, any cop can forcibly commit you without a warrant or any other due process.
When the county killed his dog, that’s what really did it for me. I have seen more misery, bad faith, and corruption in this county that in the rest of my life combined.
I believe the law that let’s them do that is called the Baker Act. And California isn’t the only state that has it.
Suicide should be fine as long as the depressed person decides not to make a spectacle out of his own death. If you throw yourself from a building in front of everyone, you'll damage a lot of people who'll find the occurrence disturbing. They'll end up seeking medical help to get over the trauma. If you kill somebody in an attempt to kill yourself then it's not fair either. Bottom line is, there should be written rules on how to take your own life.
No because you can not assess if someone has a sound mind. No test in the history of mankind can make this pure assessment.
If someone chooses, then it is nothing to do with anyone else - this is the basis of freedom.
If I want to die then that is my freedom of choice, just the same as freedom to live, freedom to give my life in war for my country, freedom to buy what I want, and freedom to walk down the road.
If you want to remove any of my freedoms then you need to re-evaluate what you think freedom is.
The governement can't stop anyone from the killing themself.
If someone has made up their mind to do so they will find a way.
No permission is "needed".
However those who too ill,paralysed, or would require "assistance" would be in danger of sending their (helper) to prison. I believe life is a personal journey and you are should be entitled to end it on your own terms.
The only problem I see is if the ill person does NOT want to die but has family members pushing medical authorities to "end their pain." There may be some financial incentive behind their decision.
I suppose the best way to deal with this is to draw up documents while healthy stating under circumstances how you wish things to be handled.
Very much like the "Do not recessitate or use extraordinary measures" patients are "allowed " to utilize in emergency rooms.
Definitely NO!! I own my body and have my own right and there is no doubt in that!! But if I commit suicide, the cause would be some major depression. One thing that has to be remembered is that "Nothing in this world is permanent". Instead, Moving on is a better option. Who knows? Life may have a brighter side for us!!
@gabby0506..............well said but what about if the person is content with his personal situation and would like to end his own life?
technically most of us are already committing suicide so i see no problem with faster methods
Why all the bitching? I can guarantee you will NEVER get out of life alive so why sweat it?
Actually, you do get out of life alive!
And you reap karma for killing yourself. You will come back deformed. This state will teach you to value your body / temple which you are currently dependent on. Its all about awareness. You cannot jump into the light of God. You must will yourself there step by step using body, heart, mind and soul.
And when God sees that you are sincere and you truly want Him and Him alone, (Spirit) He will bring you in, as He did with Jesus on the cross.
In effect they are allowed to if they accomplish the task. After all, if they are dead afterward, who ya gonna punish. At the same time, to discuss allowing such action is to say that it has a "sane" aspect that deserves attention. People don't commit suicide except out of desparation and depression. No one in a good state of mind desires to kill themselves or others. We have a society at present which seems to be tolerant of "homelessness" and more than willing to ignore that most of it is a function of mental illness. Maybe we should make homelessness illegal and put all the crazy people in jail. WB
Should we allow the terminally ill to suffer? We are kinder to our pets.
If a person is depressed, he/she should talk to a close, patient, and trusted friend regarding this matter. Or perhaps, he/she should seek to discuss this issue with a psychologist who could help them sort out the problem.
We the human people have the right to die, hello my name is jeff black I have been dealing with depression for years I keep getting idiots trying to tell me that suicide wrong bla bla bla, I want to end my own fucking life its my god damn choice I'm sick of people denying my right to die, the law should be fucking change and that's that.
Murder is murder.
Like murder of another person, self-murder is entirely selfish. It is the extreme of Ego -- self-concern.
Ego is blindness and separation from others. Ego is self-obsessed.
All bodies die. But the individual lives on. Suffering follows the individual spirit.
So, suicide only makes it worse! Go ahead. Pull the avalanche in on yourself. Dive into a supernova of hurt. Depression? The emotional pain you've experienced so far is a stubbed toe compared to the hurt you're in for with suicide. Imagine a lucid dream from which you cannot awaken and that turns into a living nightmare. Go ahead.
If you want to start taking responsibility for your life, you can. I've had persistent depression. You create your own feelings. You are responsible for them. You can change them at-will.
If you don't think you have control over creating your own emotions, then you won't have control over this. But it's a matter of choice.
The best thing you can do to handle depression is to help others with love and unconditional generosity. Turn your attention from inward selfishness to outward generosity.
This makes me feel ill.
"You can change your feelings at will." Seriously? That is not how it works for most people. Depression is a disease and it is all-consuming for some. You honestly think being suicidally depressed is a CHOICE?
It's not about taking responsibility, it's about feeling SO bad about yourself and your life that you actually think death is the only way out. It's not selfish, it's heartbreaking and sad, and people who feel suicidal need HELP and SUPPORT to understand their feelings and their condition, not to be told that they need to buck up and choose to feel differently.
You have a right to do whatever you want with your life but please know that this is the depression talking, it's not you. What kind of therapy/medications have you tried? How old are you? I know you probably weren't looking for advice but I just wanted to say that while NO ONE should make you feel like your feelings are invalid, there are people out there who will do everything in their power to make your life better. You are worth trying to save. I know it doesn't seem like it when you're in throes of depression, but you are worthy of a happy life and I truly hope you find the help you need. I don't know if there's a private messaging option on this site but if there is, and you need someone to talk to, feel free to talk to me.
Anybody is allowed to do what they want, and I WILL COMMIT SUICIDE IF I WANT TO, whether or not a human being objects to it, if I'll be burnt in Hell and I'm completely useless.
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Especially in young teens who are dealing with issues about their sexuality. <promotional statement snipped>
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