Textlink Ads

1. STAFF

   pauldeedsposted 16 years ago

   I'd like to get some feedback from our authors on textlink ads.
   
   You've probably seen these on other sites.  Usually they appear as double underlines under one or more phrases in the text of an article.   When the viewer mouses over the phrase a small advertisement will float over the page.  Much like with AdSense, if the viewer clicks on the ad you make money.
   
   We've run a small test of these, and we believe they can add incremental revenue to hubs.  However, before we proceed I wanted to gauge our authors' reaction to this kind of advertising.
   
   If they made you more money, would you want them on your hubs?  Would you want to be able to control whether they appear on individual hubs, or just across your whole account.  Do you have experience using them on any of your other sites or blogs?
   
   Thanks for your feedback.

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      guidebabaposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      This is what I was thinking. I have had the experience of Placing These kind of Ads (ContentLink) on My Blog. At times I found them spoiling the whole Post. They make the Post Look Ugly and I don't think too many people would be reading these kind of posts (Do you Read ? ). Yes, It can be included as the Revenue Capsule in HubPages but Hubbers should be able to control as to on which Hub they want these Ads to Appear (Same as e-bay and Amazon).
      
      Thanks !

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      terrygposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      If its Kontera count me out. Two reasons are extremely low cpc and in Australia they pay by cheque. Now here that costs $15.00 to clear and a six week wait.
      
      Also it took me three months of emails that continually were not responded to by me asking when the payment would be sent. They eventually replied to my emails where they stated they made a mistake and would cut a cheque immediately.  That was the first month and took another two months to get the cheque. It was not a small cheque mind you.
      
      The only ones I know who like Kontera are Mr Comm and one other, thats because its heavily affiliated.  Thats probably why the cpc is abismal. It all goes to the sponsor.

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      AdsenseStrategiesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      This isn't an exact response to the question, but is certainly related.
      In regard to the Adsense ads that are displayed themselves now, they often
      come up in colours, with borders, and in obvious "look-at-me-Im-an-ad" ways.
      
      Isn't it the case that click thru is much higher for adsense ads that are somewhat
      camouflaged (no frames, same background colour as background of page, etc)?
      This relates to the issue of textlink ads, because the theory I mention above is exactly that:
      make the Adsense ads look more like text and less like banners, because banners, or at least framed, ads, get fewer clicks.
      
      Hope this suggestion is not too off topic...

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         Chairman Mattposted 16 years agoin reply to this

         I've noticed the same thing, and I'm about halfway thru Joel Comm's Adsense Code. Oh.
         
         Now, what's going on behind the scenes is that our browsers are being pumped for info by any site we visit that's serious about marketing. Behavioral Targeting is beginning to get some negative press, but as a newbie here, I'm willing to give Yield Builder free reign, because I'm guessing it reads logs and cookies, just for openers.
         
         Stay tuned, I'll flagship this next week. Don't be scared by this "lack of privacy" thing. If you're under 30 you've probably never had any, lol.

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            darksideposted 16 years agoin reply to this

            What do you mean by "flagship this next week"?

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         terrygposted 16 years agoin reply to this

         You need to change your id name. Seriously!!

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            weblogposted 16 years agoin reply to this

            But, nobody can rename the user id here

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      drummer boyposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      If it makes you more money why not?  As long as it doesn't become spammy.  Just my thought

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      BaliMermaidposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      Was this request for comment what eventually turned into Kontera Ads?
      
      Thanks,
      Balimermaid

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   Mark Knowlesposted 16 years ago

   As an author I have tried them on a couple of blogs and found them to be about 50% as successful as adsense - but at the cost of adsense income.
   
   They seem to work better on business related pages with no particular "niche" that adsense has difficulty finding an appropriate ad for.
   
   As a reader, I find them very, very, annoying and poorly targeted
   
   I would definitely like the option to try them and turn them off on certain hubs as I think they get in the way of well-targeted adsense and amazon ads but fill a gap where there is no specific product to sell.

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      Whitney05posted 16 years agoin reply to this

      I ditto this...  I, also, don't like how they look on pages; to me it creates a sloppy design to the text content.
      
      I've never used them, but I could see where they could possible decrease adsense earnings, as well as other affiliate earnings.
      
      I would agree, if you're going to do it, please provide the option to turn it off.

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      1. STAFF

         pauldeedsposted 16 years agoin reply to this

         In our small test, the decrease in AdSense earnings was considerably less than the extra revenue generated.  We wouldn't even consider doing it if we didn't believe it would make you and us more money.  But at the same time we know that money isn't everyone's motivation on HubPages.
         
         Thanks for the feedback.

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         embitcaposted 16 years agoin reply to this

         I agree, but also would like to make sure that the option to turn it off is allowed even for "commercial hubs' or hubs including external links. I would really hate to see this a mandatory feature for commercial hubs.

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      Woody Marxposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      One of the very cool things about Hubpages is the "clean" look of the pages.  I don't even have ebay or Amazon on mine because I value that look so much that I'd hate not to have the option of keeping it. 
      
      Also some sort of experiment should be done to see if it lowers Hubpages Alexa/Google page rank. 
      
      Does it make us all have lower ranking because some of us have these text link ads?  Does it increase ranking? 
      
      Maybe it needs to be tried for a 6 month period first in order to see the results.
      

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   ProCWposted 16 years ago

   How would this work? Would it be site-wide and automatic, or would it be a time-consuming process, that would involve each of us having to go to each one of our hubs and add an extra module (like e-bay and amazon.) Is it possible just to do this as a Rev-Share? Just curious. I like the idea either way if it increases income.

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4. STAFF

   pauldeedsposted 16 years ago

   It definitely wouldn't be a capsule, most likely we'd have a global switch for all your hubs and perhaps the option to turn it on or off for individual hubs as well.
   
   In one scenario, you'd have to sign up with the text link ad provider as an affiliate, and you'd get your own reports (from your share of impressions) just like with AdSense.  In another scenario, we'd take 100% of the revenue from the text link ads, but we'd increase your share of AdSense revenue so that the net effect would be more earnings (at least for the vast majority of people).

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      TiffanyDowposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      I think it'd be great if there was an option to do it (or not) on each of your Hubs. As long as they're targeted, it'd be great. I know on Squidoo, we found when they first switched the ads, that some very inappropriate ads were showing on our lenses - but that was fixed.
      
      Oh, and I like scenario #1 above.

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   embitcaposted 16 years ago

   As a reader, I hate these things and usually click away rather than reading pages that have them. I find they are massively ugly.
   
   I LOVE LOVE LOVE money, but I really hate these ads.

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      Isabella Snowposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      This is my opinion, as well. But if I had the option to turn them off or on, I wouldn't mind having them added to the site.

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      compu-smartposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      lmao me2
      
      Im sorry I have no other knowledge about them..Personally, i would not like them from the feedback here as yet!

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   relacheposted 16 years ago

   I don't like when this style of ad is placed in the middle of a page, but it doesn't annoy me as much at the top or bottom.

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   JYOTI KOTHARIposted 16 years ago

   I did not find any in my hubs so far.
   jyoti

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   Inspirepubposted 16 years ago

   I think they look spammy, and I have usually seen them on sites that are full of low-quality content, like made-for-Adsense-plus-some-PLR-text sites, or free press release sites.
   
   To me, they scream "we don't want you to read the content here, just click somewhere and make us some money, please".
   
   I will generally assume when they appear that the content of the site is not worth reading.
   
   I have some friends who make their living blogging, and they have all tried them, and they have all stopped using them.
   
   I am open to ways of making more money, but not at the cost of alienating genuine readers. HubPages is a place to put quality content, and the point of quality content is that people READ IT.
   
   Possibly it might work if you could make the links display in EXACTLY the same look and feel as a text link inserted by the author.
   
   Those who wouldn't want to apparently be linking to crappy sites could turn it off.
   
   The option to turn it off - absolutely mandatory! If you had textlink ads in place when I came to check out HubPages, I would never have joined.
   
   Re option 2 - consider the possibility that you raise the Adsense percentage across the board, and then 90% of Hubbers switch off the textlink ads because they think they are ugly ...
   
   I like option 2 because I would get more Adsense revenue, and I wouldn't have to put textlink ads on my Hubs ... I'll bet I am not the only one!
   
   Much as it pains me to say it, if you are going to do it, chances are you will have to go with option 1 - it is lower risk.
   
   If they are those spammy-looking double blue lines, I would probably just turn them off completely.
   
   However, if they looked just like regular links, I would trial them on my Hubs.
   
   Jenny

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   quotationsposted 16 years ago

   I have used the Amazon text link ads. I find that the javascript generated ones (as opposed to the hand coded html links) tend to slow the page and pages that have these links rank poorly in Google. I think this may be because Google counts them as individual affiliate links, and penalizes the page, even though they are generated automatically.
   
   They detracted from Adsense revenue.
   Adsense CTR fell dramatically.
   
   Moreover, I find these contextual ads annoying and intrusive. They are rarely very relevant, and since some companies (Vibrant Media?) cause a small window to pop up simply when you hover over the link, they are almost as annoying as popunders and their ilk.
   
   If you implement this, please give us the chance to not deploy them on our hubs even if they are commercial. However, please keep in mind that you may end up cluttering the entire hubpages website with these annoying links.

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    embitcaposted 16 years ago

    I agree with every single thing Jenny said. She has explained really well how websites that use this kind of linking look to a reader -- like spam not worth reading.

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       Whitney05posted 16 years agoin reply to this

       I second this. Jenny explained things very well, and gave the perspective of the money earner and the reader.
       
       I, too, agree that the sites with these ads are low-quality, like Jenny said and usually chalk-full of other affiliate ads making the pages spammy. Although, HP isn't packed with affiliate ads, I think that the text ads would make the pages would decrease in quality.
       
       If you guys decide this, I definitely stick to my first though of giving the option to turn it off.

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    Mishaposted 16 years ago

    Now I feel being a spammer
    
    I just installed Kontera on my site a couple of days ago

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       embitcaposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       Hhahaha! I just went and took a look, you terrible spammer How can you stand it? Doesn't the pop-up things when you hover drive you crazy? I think there's a similiar sort of thing that Wordpress.com and Livejournal do with Snap.

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          Mishaposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          Frankly I don't find it THAT annoying. While I am not all excited to see those double lines, I don't abandon sites just because of them. I'll give it a try and see how it goes, and then decide if I want too keep it
          What I really dislike are pop-ups and pop-unders - but hey, about.com uses them, weather.com uses them - and I may consider at some point...

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             embitcaposted 16 years agoin reply to this

             You will have to let us know how it goes for you. And yes, I find the pop-ups and unders really annoying. In fact, I find about.com so annoying and useless that I usually go out of my way to block having search results come up from there if I'm trying to research something. Weather.com never bothered me too much though.

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                Mishaposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                I will - as soon as I get some more or less stable info

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    Write On!posted 16 years ago

    Options please!!!!!!!!
    
    Write On!

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    Wayne Liewposted 16 years ago

    I guess an option like for the current eBay and Amazon capsule will be the best. Such ads will really spoils the readability of the page, not to take into account that the ads will actually slows the loading of the page down...

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    First_home_buyerposted 16 years ago

    I would also like the option to be able to turn these off if you do decide to add this feature. thanks.

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    Peter M. Lopezposted 16 years ago

    Paul, I think the problem everyone seems to be describing is that there are sites where every third word is linked and you can hardly read a paragraph without accidentally scrolling over words causing ads to pop up unwanted.
    
    If there was a way to keep the number of words limited or specifically related to the content of the hub, then I think it could be a good idea.

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    Whitney05posted 16 years ago

    I've never really seen a page like that, I'm more speaking along the lines of sites with one word per paragraph still appearing spammy and generally speaking an overall low quality.

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    Uninvited Writerposted 16 years ago

    At the risk of self promotion. I use Amazon text links in my blog and you can't tell them apart from textual links. Luckily they don't go overboard with the links.
    
    http://www.uninvitedwriter.com/

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       ProCWposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       I like that idea. We already have our amazon ids in place and would only take a little coding from HubPages end.

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          Dave Saundersposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          I would love to see the ability to turn on Amazon's context sensitive text links.

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    CarpetDiemposted 16 years ago

    I hope you don't impliment them, or if you do, the default is that they are turned off, and an indidividual can chose to turn them on if they want.  It seems like most if not all of the posters here who are concerned with QUALITY agree that they look spammy, and are annoying and distacting. I think so anyway. Hubpages is an awesome site. The ads on the side are fine, but sticking the ads into the content would be a big mistake.

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    Dave Saundersposted 16 years ago

    People like Joel Comm, who has a massive blog following, use Kontera with great success. If there really is content there, people will read it, regardless of a few underlined words. Many people want to play pop-psychologist when it comes to deciding what people do and don't like on a web page. As has been the case with direct "info marketing" way back into the 1800s, when it began, there's only one barometer of success: Your results. You have them or you don't.

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    Karen Ellisposted 16 years ago

    I hate them as a reader, so why would I want to subject any readers of my hubs to them.  I'm sure, if it is anything like adsense income, it can not be worth it.

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    Karen Ellisposted 16 years ago

    I hate them as a reader, so why would I want to subject any readers of my hubs to them.  I'm sure, if it is anything like adsense income, it can not be worth it.

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    Mark Bennettposted 16 years ago

    I don't like them myself, especially if they "pop".
    
    But if they were discreet, like normal links, that would be much preferable.
    
    And I would want to be able to turn them off. Probably in my case on a Hub by Hub basis. I wouldn't want to have to make one overall "take it or leave it" decision for my whole account.

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    jimmythejockposted 16 years ago

    Paul,
    For 2 years I have been an author here on hubpages and I have seen my earnings Rocket from 0, a couple of cents a month, to approx $200 a month. I have seen many different ad formats tried out and many different formations of where ads are placed.
    I have seen different results from different ad layouts and I have learned to trust you guys 100%.
    I feel that you should give the text links a trial period of say one month hub wide and then survey the authors and take it from there.
    just my 2 cents.....jimmy

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    broalexdotinfoposted 16 years ago

    Text Link Ads , can generate a nice extra revenue , but as Mark said , they are poorly targeted and also a bit annoying. But if more money comes in why not try them?

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    spudsposted 16 years ago

    If you could switch them on or off for individual hubs then I support the idea.

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    Whitney05posted 16 years ago

    I realize I'f posted my opinion like a million times, but I've been thinking about it... If the links were made to look like regular links within the text and didn't have that ugly box pop up, they wouldn't be as bad. I would just have to limit the amount of hub links that I post within the text and use a link box instead, as the over use of links within the text would look poor.

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    Angela Harrisposted 16 years ago

    I don't know about the Textlink ads, but I have been wanting to add Amazon text links for a long time.

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    shailiniposted 16 years ago

    This could be an opt-in feature. If people would like to join, they can add it to their hubpages (all or only few).

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    john schmitposted 16 years ago

    What is textlink adds?
    I could not find one in hubs.
    john

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    ProCWposted 16 years ago

    Earlier you said, "We've run a small test of these, and we believe they can add incremental revenue to hubs." Would it be possible to see these ads in action on your "small test?"
    
    Thanks,
    
    ProCW

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       ProCWposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       Nothing yet from the head-honcho-guy?... or the second in command.
       It seems you're too busy to reply?... I certainly understand.
       
       
       
       ProCW
       
       ps - i'm only kidding about the " " ... really!
       
       I'm !

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    bloggerdollarposted 16 years ago

    AD Networks other than AdSense, usually don't pay outside U.S.A so it's no good for me. I think you should leave it optional.

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    kerrygposted 16 years ago

    Hmm, not sure how I missed this thread earlier, but just wanted to add my voice to the chorus that finds this type of ad really annoying as a reader, especially the popping kind. I don't mind HubPages adopting them, but please have them be opt-in rather than opt-out.

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    crusadorposted 16 years ago

    Is it possible that hubpages give an option to hubbers to choose these testlinkads so that they choose them to add them as textlink in their hubs? Some hubbers and advertisers often approach us to insert textads in our hubs. There is no harm if hubpages make some sort of revenue sharing with hubbers.

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    thranaxposted 16 years ago

    I personally believe they would be beneficial to Hubpages. But not if there automatically added. The Hubber should be able to add them at there will. That way we know not to over do them and make it hard for our readers to read our real content. Content should come first and if all your readers hate having like 5 text ads per a paragraph there not going to stay with Hubpages. I know if I come across a page with a ton of those I don't even stay, there annoying and painful to read around, especially if your reading the paragraph with your mouse underlining the text as you go... So if the Hubber could control that and if they have Common Sense, then make it so they can do it, if Hubpages automatically adds them in...NO. Once again to reiterate, the Hubber wants people to look at there Hubs mostly for content, the money is a bonus, so don't mess the text up with too many text ads. Just one or per 1000 words about seems like a good scale.

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    johnr54posted 16 years ago

    Amazon and Ebay are options today, and it seems like the text link ads should be optional as well.
    
    I personally hit the back button when I land on a page that has these, in particular those that pop up when you hover over them.  I really find them annoying, and would be hard pressed to find a good reason to use them.
    
    Definitely make them optional.

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    CarpetDiemposted 16 years ago

    I haven't seen any decisions yet, but I'm singing as loud as I can along with kerryg. To echo her tune, and in line with what I wrote before, she said above ~
    "Hmm, not sure how I missed this thread earlier, but just wanted to add my voice to the chorus that finds this type of ad really annoying as a reader, especially the popping kind."

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37. STAFF

    pauldeedsposted 16 years ago

    We use YieldBuild to place AdSense ads on HubPages.  YieldBuild tests various colors, layouts, and the positions of ads and attempts to choose the ones that produce the most revenue.  On HubPages, in the tests we've done YieldBuild  beats a static human chosen layout by a significant margin.  (Note: YieldBuild is a product made by a different team of people at the same company as HubPages).
    
    However, click through rates and earnings from AdSense fluctuate based on many factors that are not in YieldBuild's control, among others:
    
    1) Google's ad inventory and the relevance and types of the ad that Google chooses to display (and whether they choose to display an ad at all)
    2) the distribution of incoming traffic (U.S. or UK search traffic performs the best)
    3) the current advertisers bids for the keywords associated with the ad
    4) the percent of revenue google decides to share
    
    So, you should expect your earnings and CTR to fluctuate.  It's normal.   But rest assured that we are making our best effort to maximize the revenue generated, both in your share of impressions and in our share of impressions.

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38. STAFF

    pauldeedsposted 16 years ago

    As for text link ads, thanks for all your feedback.
    
    We're still working out the details, but if we do add them as an option you will be able to disable or enable them for individual hubs or for all of your hubs en masse (with one click).  Addressing a few other points that were brought up:
    
    - we'll limit the number of links that are activated per page to a reasonable number
    - the networks we are considering can make payments to many countries outside of the United States
    - we will probably only display text link ads to users that are not signed in to HubPages (ie. external traffic)

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       Whitney05posted 16 years agoin reply to this

       As for the 1st point, that's great, as I found a site the other day while searching for something that had a text ad every 3-5 words for the first 2 sentences. I was quite irritated by it.
       
       As for the last point, so your saying, for HP members that are signed into their accounts, they won't see the ads, but for someone who finds your hub in a search or on a bookmarking site, and is not signed into HP, they will see the ads... Given the ads are turned on for that hub?
       
       Question: When you guys implement the option, will you have to go through all hubs and individually check no somewhere to disable it, or the other way around, and if you want them on particular hubs, go through and check yes to enable the option for all previously published hubs?

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       1. STAFF

          pauldeedsposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          That is what I'm saying.
          
          There will be an easy way to enable or disable the textlink ads on all of your hubs.  You won't have to edit each hub.

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       ProCWposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       Sounding great Paul!

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    solarshinglesposted 16 years ago

    Options to switch them OFF, please.

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       Maddie Ruudposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       That's been covered.
       
       Scroll up and see Paul's second-most recent post.

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       Chairman Mattposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       Options to turn them ON, please. I agree with Jenny about not joining if HP was sporting that irritating junk like a perpetual yard sale run by a midway carnie. Showing that crud to anybody, logged in or otherwise, is going to cheapen our brand.
       
       Also keep in mind the Law of Large Numbers and the tipping point. We've got a good thing going, let's keep adding useful content so we all stay on track. Losing traffic is a whole lot easier than gaining and retaining it.
       
       Anybody who wants to make more money can add more hubs.

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40. STAFF

    pauldeedsposted 16 years ago

    What we need is an option to force people to read before they post.

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    Mark Knowlesposted 16 years ago

    I have been pushing for that in my own way for some time
    
    Check all boxes in previous posts perhaps?

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    weblogposted 16 years ago

    | Yes, we have to read previous posts and it's good by all other means. |

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    CarpetDiemposted 16 years ago

    hey Shane (aka drummerboy), I thought you were on vacation. Are you working on vacation?
    
    As to this thread, just to voice my two cents again, I think in should be an option that is turned off by default, and individual hubbers can turn it on if they want. I agree with those that say it is important to protect the HubPages brand, which I think stands for quality, easy to read, interesting content (without pushy selling...)  I've come across the same article sites where every third word is a link ad, and it's really hard to not just move on immediately.
    It's a lot harder to build a reputation than to loose it.  Steve

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    thranaxposted 16 years ago

    I agree, I like the clean look of Hubpages too Too many text ads and it goes to the chicken coop.

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    bjjpposted 16 years ago

    I am new here but I think it would be worth a try. I have had no bad experiences with any on other sites so far. Most of them I have seen do not have many on each page so they don't bother me.

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    William F. Torpeyposted 16 years ago

    I recognize that HubPages and most hubbers want, or need, to make money on this site, but there's a certain amount of trade-off in any advertising, but especially the popup kind that gives the reader no option. I like the link capsule we use now because it gives an opportunity to find additional information relative to the hub. I would favor an advertising link that allows the reader to decide whether he wants to see it, especially if it's optional to the hubber or to the hub.

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    aidenofthetowerposted 16 years ago

    I was surprised by the number of people who are annoyed with these ads. I have found them to be easy to deal with and thought that they were much less cluttering then many other ads that can crowd up a page. Even Google Adsense makes some hubs that are shorter feel crowded. I just recently added Kontera to one of my blogs and have no idea how it will do yet. However, Google Adsense was doing horrible on there since there just aren't enough specific keywords so I am hoping to get something out of it.
    
    I have no problems with these types of ads and would consider using them. Also I think more and more sites are using them making it so that they are moving past the poor content spam type of feel. I guess with such a negative response from publishers here I could be wrong. I do know that I would like to earn more with my Hubs. I like Hubpages a lot and have tons of great ideas, but the earnings don't come in fast enough for me to spend a ton of time here...
    
    Other ideas would be making it possible to have more revenue capsules from other affiliate programs and such. Cafepress is the only thing that comes to mind off of the top of my head, but I do know there are others!

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       Lea^posted 16 years agoin reply to this

       First of all, I want to say your hub on how to make at least $1000 online has been very helpful to me and I would like your input on the affiliate program offered by Bidvertiser.
       The payout for ad clicks as well as affiliate referrals looks good. Have you checked them out or heard anything about them?
       
       http://www.bidvertiser.com/
       
       Thanks for any info you may have.
       
       Lea

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    kashifmahmoodposted 16 years ago

    I think they are better than adsense ads in a sense that they occupy no space plus it is up to the reader to hover the mouse over those text link ads or not . The relevancy and targeting is something that I am still not content with !

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       waynetposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       I'd have to agree with you on that respect, there are some aspects of text links that frustrate me, as unrelevant links just make me sick!
       
       No matter how I try to narrow them down via keyword specifics they just add random ones in there sometimes,, truly annoying...

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    Marian Swiftposted 16 years ago

    As a reader I find ad links are a massive turn-off.  They spoil the blog post's look and interrupt the reading flow.
    
    Frankly, as both a writer and a reader, I'm more interested in the content of blog posts and hubs than in ads.  But I will click on a tastefully placed ad for a book or item that promises to enhance the info I'm reading for free.

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    kashifmahmoodposted 16 years ago

    I think having this in as another income option will not be a bad idea .
    
    It will be upto the hubbers to use it or not .
    
    I wonder how many hubbers are using Amazon and ebay as well ??

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       Froggy213posted 16 years agoin reply to this

       I use both--I am very happy with ebay--but amazon hasn't done a thing for me.

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